President Obama in Warsau (courtesy cnn.com)

President Obama has the ability to issue “executive orders” that direct the agencies controlled by the Office of the President to change the way they operate. Government agencies have a large amount of leeway when it comes to the interpretation of the law and how it applies to the American people, and these executive orders are intended to allow the president to specifically direct those agencies in whatever manner he sees fit.

Last Friday President Obama issued one such order which changed the definition of a “manufacturer” under the ITAR treaty regulations, a change which now means anyone who so much as threads a barrel on a firearm needs to pay thousands more dollars in fees and is subject to further registration. From the NRA:

By way of background, the AECA and ITAR concern rules by which military materiel is exported from, and imported to, the United States. The so-called “defense articles” governed by the AECA/ITAR are compiled in what is known as the U.S. Munitions List and include some, but not all, firearms and ammunition, as well as their parts and components.

Thus, for purposes of the regime, a spring or floorplate from the magazine of a controlled firearm is subject to the same regulatory framework as the firearm itself.

The AECA/ITAR require anybody who engages in the business of “manufacturing” a defense article to register with DDTC and pay a registration fee that for new applicants is currently $2,250 per year. These requirements apply, even if the business does not, and does not intend to, export any defense article.

Moreover, under ITAR, “only one occasion of manufacturing … a defense article” is necessary for a commercial entity to be considered “engaged in the business” and therefore subject to the regime’s requirements.

The issue is the definition of “manufacturer.” Previously, only machine shops who actually produce a firearm from scratch were required to register as a “manufacturer.” Local gun shops with a shade-tree gunsmith happily threading barrels and trueing up receivers were exempt, since they didn’t actually make anything new.

This new interpretation of the ITAR regulations has changed all that, and anyone who so much as threads a barrel now must further register with the Federal government as a “manufacturer” and pay an additional $2,250 in registration fees. That might not seem like a lot to a big shop, but for the small mom-and-pop gunsmiths this could be enough to put them out of business.

The NRA’s opinion on the matter is predictable:

DDTC’s move appears aimed at expanding the regulatory sweep of the AECA/ITAR and culling many smaller commercial gunsmithing operations that do not have the means to pay the annual registration fee or the sophistication to negotiate DDTC’s confusing maze of bureaucracy. Like ATF’s early “guidance” this year on theGCA’s licensing requirement for firearm “dealers,” it is also likely to have a significant chilling effect on activity that would not even be considered regulated.   

The administration’s latest move serves as a timely reminder of how the politicized and arrogant abuse of executive power can be used to suppress Second Amendment rights and curtail lawful firearm-related commerce. That lesson should not be forgotten when voters go to the polls this November.

227 Responses to BREAKING: Obama Issues Executive Order That May Drive Gunsmiths Out of Business

    • What makes you think it won’t hold up in court? Not saying it would, but I mean there are a crap-ton of gun-control-happy judges and justices out there who I think would uphold anything gun control.

        • There are a huge number of federal trial court judges in the federal system, all appointed for life, and whose tenure will be unaffected by the identity of the next President. They will be the ones deciding these cases, cases which these small mom and pop shop will be unable to appeal due to the great costs incurred. Trial judges usually follow the law as written.

        • This is election is all about the “judges” at all levels of the Federal Court.

          If you are a one issue voter, it should be about saving the Judiciary from becoming a complete Kangaroo Court like the 9th circuit is today.

        • You are putting way too much trust in a guy who calls the gun hating state of NY home.

          There has to be a paradigm shift in national thinking, before any change can actually reverse the tyranny that is slowly destroying liberty

        • I called the gun hating state of New Jersey home for over a decade. Does that make ME less of a 2A supporter?

        • Hope you’re correct. With respect, you place a lot of credence in a guy with no pertinent work experience applying for the most crucial job in the world. And a track record of supporting all the wrong people and ideas. Just sayin’.

        • I’m with you, ‘serge. Trump is the best realistic choice for pro-gun judges. I supported Rand Paul, and Ted Cruz, but they are out of the race. If Trump messes up, I’ll support someone else in 2020.

          And yes, this nation is filled with lefty judges who will happily support gun control in any form. The Constitution is a “guideline” to be “interpreted” and damn way they choose.

        • “I called the gun hating state of New Jersey home for over a decade. Does that make ME less of a 2A supporter?”

          You have commented about rights like someone from New Jersey and that’s not a good thing. Sometimes, the way you talk about trump, it sounds like you want a dictator.

        • You are putting way too much trust in a guy who calls the gun hating state of NY home.

          I was born and raised in New York and was carrying firearms before you stopped soiling your diapers.

          Okay, that could have been yesterday. But it wasn’t.

        • Trump don’t need no steenkin’ judges to undo an Executive Order.

          But….that won’t prevent Obama’s latest imperial decree from driving gunsmiths out of business in the meantime.

          He knows that, so he doesn’t give a rat’s azz what a future POTUS might do.

        • Trump judges are apt to be less political that Obama, Clinton or Clinton. judges. These EOs can only be changed by Congress or the next President.

        • That is an incredibly arrogant and ridiculous statement considering you have no idea what Trump intends to do.

          Anyone with any common sense and intelligence can look into his history and realize that he is not pro-gun candidate.

          He is doing nothing more than saying what he knows you want to hear.. The majority of his political donations have gone to Democrats and he said on multiple occasions that he believes we need more gun regulations…

      • First you have to get caught. As the saying goes; everything is legal until you get caught. Unless you’re doing business commercially the chances of that are nill. Just don’t piss anyone off that might drop a dime. Back yard and basement armors will need to “know” their customers.
        What the government is doing is driving the manufacturer, modification and reworking of a firearm underground! Folks, the insurgency is coming. If you’re not prepared, you need to get prepared!

        • “First you have to get caught.”

          You terribly underestimate just how devious government agents are.

          It will not take much to require that anyone buying equipment designed to maintain or repair any gun-related article must obtain the proper ITAR registration, annually. Anyone who attempts to purchase such items and who does not present the proper registration will be considered to have committed fraud just by making the attempt. Or some such convoluted trap.

          The governments are sensing they now hold the favor of the voters to begin making guns more and more difficult to own and use. Do not forget that every self-defense law is the result of legislation by representatives of the majority of voters. What are now favorable laws are a single election away from removal. How about a state and local law that states the the mere attempt or success of shooting a law enforcement official, regardless of circumstance is a felony. Think that cannot happen? How about the removal of “affirmative defense” for discharging your firearm in self-defense? No laws granting permission (and we all know that is what it is) to use a firearm at all are cut in stone. How about a situation where you have the unquestioned to keep and bear arms, but if you harm another individual, no matter how or why, with a firearm you are chargeable with a felony and must prove you did not discharge that weapon in violation of an ordinance prohibiting the discharge of a firearm inside a jurisdiction? Think that can’t happen?

          It is all about voting.

        • Ladies and Gentlemen, fellow Patriots, The Peoples Militia is coming together for the following reason; We must stop Obama at all cost, this is not to stop the upcoming Election, but to make sure that Obama cannot declare Martial Law to stop it or interfere with it. For this reason we must act swift and smart. We call on all of the Bikers, all of the other groups of Armed Citizen that are out there, and all individuals that wish to participate. There is no Organization to join, no dues to be paid, and no Monthly meetings to attend. You just say you’ll be there and then show up if and when called into action. The call will be; (NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD PEOPLE TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR COUNTRY) so memorize that. I HAVE WRITTEN A Declaration, that strips this Government of all its Powers, and returns them to the People, it also calls for the Arrest of approximately 600 Elected and Appointed Officials. It explains that this is not an overthrow of our Government, and that we are not the Enemy. We are seeking to remove the Corruption that is in our Government. You can read the Declaration of Restoration and sign the Petition all here at this site http://mwhitley1.wixsite.com/declaration Please sign the Petition, and if you have questions please Contact me through the Contact page email.

        • I have done this sort of stuff for people for years , and myself of coarse , never charged anyone , I have traded things , including guns and tools etc. but never taken cash , but I think this may be it for me , these rascals are getting way to in my face and the first ones that had to enforce these rules would be the losers , the ones that came next , I’m afraid , would turn the tables and I would lose in the end . Yep , I’m done . Sorry folks , machine shop is closed until further notice . This is so sad to me , I cry for this great nation and all the wonderful people in it and especially the young generation , many of whom won’t even know what’s lost until bell rings .

      • Ladies and Gentlemen, fellow Patriots, The Peoples Militia is coming together for the following reason; We must stop Obama at all cost, this is not to stop the upcoming Election, but to make sure that Obama cannot declare Martial Law to stop it or interfere with it. For this reason we must act swift and smart. We call on all of the Bikers, all of the other groups of Armed Citizen that are out there, and all individuals that wish to participate. There is no Organization to join, no dues to be paid, and no Monthly meetings to attend. You just say you’ll be there and then show up if and when called into action. The call will be; (NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD PEOPLE TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR COUNTRY) so memorize that. I HAVE WRITTEN A Declaration, that strips this Government of all its Powers, and returns them to the People, it also calls for the Arrest of approximately 600 Elected and Appointed Officials. It explains that this is not an overthrow of our Government, and that we are not the Enemy. We are seeking to remove the Corruption that is in our Government. You can read the Declaration of Restoration and sign the Petition all here at this site http://mwhitley1.wixsite.com/declaration Please sign the Petition, and if you have questions please Contact me through the Contact page email.

      • I am not saying that some p.o.s. judge won’t uphold it, but the treaty old BAM BAM is backing hasn’t be ratified by the Senate. They need to go ahead and reject the treaty and I plan on writing my Senators to do just that.

      • I’m a recently retired Green Beret airborne Ranger. Custom protection specialist wounded injjured many times but Excitedly & admittingly with WRATH fought to deploy to Panama, middleeasr 1990’s, late 80’s invasion of Panama & 4-times after. I remember the week rediculous assault weapons ban Bill Clinton put into effect. How about we. Wait! Continue to DONATE to the NRA. Most powerful Lobbyist, for God Given, Hard Tragically earned Rights our Ingenious Forfathers put down so brilliantly on paper. These Ammendmants & examples & warnings still apply today. Untill 8 years. Ago, i was pretty much Apolitical being a loyal ACTIVELY EMPLOYED servant to my FELLOW COUNTRYMEN!” Not a Radical, angry Arrogant, seditious tyrrant attempting to punish a nation he has battered. Wait & see. Clintons assault weapons ban was looked at & i’ve been told by credible sources, while i served my 28 years of Loyal Service & tragic service. To ALL OF US!” It is a total screw you i am going to hurt you big business & a badd misguided hateful blow to yet another normally legal, law abiding patriotic way of earning money. Attack & Crush another small business man. FLOOD THE COURTS WITH YET ANOTHER REDICULOUS CONFUSING UPDATED LAW/VIOLATION I AM CERTAIN, VERY CERTAIN, not 1:10 police local & 4:10 federal officers have even heard of yet. Leads me to believe since even Right Wing News channel Fox. Hardly reported on. Let alone the Librally run, founded buy, the protestors of the 60’s & 70’s counter culture yippie hippie, equal rights movements. Equal Rights being the Number One thing that should’ve been about. But hey a librally conceived, educated, influenced buy people like Bill Ayers. Underground Letterman, home grown terrorists that killed & attempted to kill policeman, Civilians, judges etc…
        Now Mr. Obummer strategically slipped this in as a screw you i’m out the door & i need some friends so why not the anti-gun critics. This has no recognition in either media venues & is yet another rediculous law/Action that unless you are being tracked or use the weapon in question in self defense or a crime or attend training at one of a few ranges where fedral ATF. Nazi anti american ATF or Homeland security officers frequent, this thing in a matter of a few years will A. Either be thrown in the cow pen with all the other waste & not even, or rarely enforced!!!
        B.) erupt a TRAGIC CHAIN OF EVENTS OUR NATION HAS SEEN SEVERAL TIMES. HARD TIMES WE SURVIVED, DISMANTLING LIKE A POUTTY LITTLE SNEAK, PUSHING, PENNING THIS LAW THROUGH COULD IGNITE A WHOLE LOT OF UGLINESS. Second Ammendment mr. obummer you have no idea how PROUD, PERSISTANT, RESOURCEFUL, DEDICATED, & DETERMINED MY COUNTRYMEN & VETERANS OF 28 yrs of Service are. We will ride it into the dirt in court, streets, fields, streams & NEWS CHANNELS. This law is sour grapes Noise buy a not even True working American’s bitter sinking ship of destructive leadership. Ride it out, obey laws & GO TO COURT, CALL THE NEWS, NRA, CONTINUE TO DONATE, ATTEND ONE RALLY A YEAR. Get involved

    • Problem is that it don’t have to hold up. Years of lawyer fees and court costs will put a lot of little guys out of business…..

    • It doesn’t HAVE to hold up in court. The scenario goes like this:
      ATF: You’re a manufacturer, and you didn’t pay the registration. We’re shutting you down.
      Gunsmith: I’ll see you in court!
      ATF: Yes, you will…in about 3 years. Meanwhile, we’re shutting you down. Are you leaving peacefully, or are you going to jail today?
      Gunsmith: But how will I support my family if you’ve taken away my livelihood?
      ATF: Not our problem. But I hear McDonald’s is hiring.

      (15 months later) Gunsmith: Would you like fries with that?

      The process is the punishment.

      • I thought your answer was well said and I borrowed it for a reply to a post at AmmoLand. I gave credit to you and this site as to where it came from.

    • This is for Doug, maybe Trump never dug a ditch, but I would say he has a lot more work experience than most of our Presidents in the last 20 years. Can anyone remember a President that worked besides being an actor? Our country would be served well being run like a business, who has any idea how to make a Billion Dollars rather than just spend Billions? I say we rid the government of bureaucrats and politicians and get people who have had to work for a living to run our country, just sayin, maybe a government by the people for the people would be a nice change.

  1. It’s my belief that Trump will win and undo a bunch of this crap that Obummer has done. Hildabeast won’t be our next president.

    • Or hope, pray, dream.

      If the beast wins its going to make 1775 or 1860 look tame. With the Chicom, Russians, and Mohammadans waiting/playing on the edges.

    • For as much flack as I got around here the other day over my reluctance to vote for the man-child, I do believe you’re right. The Hildebeest makes Michael Dukakis look downright charismatic by comparison.

        • I’ve never been NeverTrump. I’ll give him a 20% chance that I’ll break down and vote for him. But, as he’s pointed out, he doesn’t need my vote and in fact doesn’t even want my vote. He’s probably right about that. If he can’t beat HRC that’s pretty pathetic.

      • “trust me….believe me” blah blah says richie rich man-boy. yeah right. Trump is a fool…except his (really his kid, as he is the only one in the family that likes guns) stance on guns and southern boarder. Beyond that, i feel he is horrible. Unfortunatley for me, that is probably enough for me to vote for him (not really voting for him, but rather his spoiled kids, as they will run the show). 4 years of name calling and “believe me”

        • Trump only SAYS he has everything. But he’s still refusing to release his tax returns to we don’t really know.

        • Gov,

          I don’t care about tax returns. I care about jobs, secure email, immigration reform, secure borders, and the Constitution.

        • Well, if you actually trust the snake-oil-salesman to deliver on those, you can bet that the Democratic party is just itching to find out what he’s hiding in those returns. Of course there’s probably nothing there that’s worse than whatever was in HRC’s 30,000 missing emails…

        • ‘…and the Constitution.’

          Bear in mind that the Trump supporters booed Ted Cruz off the stage for saying that they should vote for people that would protect and defend the Constitution. Just food for thought.

        • “But he’s still refusing to release his tax returns to we don’t really know.”

          Trump should release his tax records when Hilibeast releases her medical records.

        • Mk, seeing as how they’re both septuagenarians, I think America’s last great hope is heart disease.

        • I don’t think Trump will release his tax returns because he saw what the left did to Romney. They vilified him for following the law. There aren’t many “loopholes” in the tax code. There are specific incentives and benefits built in to encourage this type of behavior or that type investment.

    • I think there is SO much crap to undo that it cannot be undone. There is no analogy to properly frame this problem we face. What are we going to do with the Dept of the Interior who owns the BLM and other tax payer wasting and tax payer abusing agencies? Dept of Ed? I would love to see tens of thousands of government thugs on their AZZes but that won’t happen.

    • Maybe he can bring American Holidays back to our schools, I’m not sure it was Americans who decided that Christmas, Halloween, Easter and Birthdays shouldn’t be celebrated at school. I’m thinking it was some sort of Religious Foreign influence on American Schools. The last 10 years people from Foreign Countries and their beliefs have dictated American schools to fit their beliefs and eradicate the way are children celebrate or not in America!

  2. You know, it’s times like these they can’t even claim it’s for “crime prevention.” Bill down the road mounting scopes, barrels, and glassing stocks isn’t exactly likely to have connections to crime. I’ll have to read the executive order thoroughly- I’ve been making extra money dropping LPKs into ARs for people who are too lazy/unskilled to watch youtube.

  3. AND anyone who assembles an AR lower in their home. Expect subpoenas of all FFLs to disclose all purchasers of stripped lowers, partial lowers, or 80% lowers.

    BET you ass on it

    • I had the same thought … although the article stipulates that ITAR only applies to commercial entities. A human being in their home, assembling a rifle for personal use, is NOT a “commercial entity”.

        • Corporations aren’t people. The notion that they are derives from a legal fiction spun by the court to establish liability, where none previously existed.

          People can own corporations. Corporations can own corporations. If corporations were people, then corporations could own people. Corporations can’t own people, nor can people own people.

          Therefore, corporations aren’t people.

      • Think cash only face to face/no record? Probable need to never have been in the internet at any gun site also.

  4. This is like so many other regulatory issues with small businesses. Make $1 and you’re classified the same as Walmart

    • Ladies and Gentlemen, fellow Patriots, The Peoples Militia is coming together for the following reason; We must stop Obama at all cost, this is not to stop the upcoming Election, but to make sure that Obama cannot declare Martial Law to stop it or interfere with it. For this reason we must act swift and smart. We call on all of the Bikers, all of the other groups of Armed Citizen that are out there, and all individuals that wish to participate. There is no Organization to join, no dues to be paid, and no Monthly meetings to attend. You just say you’ll be there and then show up if and when called into action. The call will be; (NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD PEOPLE TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR COUNTRY) so memorize that. I HAVE WRITTEN A Declaration, that strips this Government of all its Powers, and returns them to the People, it also calls for the Arrest of approximately 600 Elected and Appointed Officials. It explains that this is not an overthrow of our Government, and that we are not the Enemy. We are seeking to remove the Corruption that is in our Government. You can read the Declaration of Restoration and sign the Petition all here at this site http://mwhitley1.wixsite.com/declaration Please sign the Petition, and if you have questions please Contact me through the Contact page email.

  5. So, would this EO apply to someone who home builds an AR15? Or anything similar?

    I could the .gov trying that but good luck with enforcement?

      • If I might point out… lots of people make the claim that executive orders are always an abuse of power, basing it solely on the number of orders he put forth. Looking at the application, though, is the only way to truly see the abuse. Oftentimes, the intent is mild, such as when Obama requested full transparency of the executive branch near the beginning of the term, or when Bush declared a time of remembrance for the fallen of 9/11. Others are more authoritarian, such as granting undocumented/illegal immigrants full protected status under the law when the Congress refused to do so.

    • They are not planning on enforcing this. This will be an add on crime where someone gets caught up in something else pretty much screwing that person for life.

      This is the same instrumentalism they use in the “Drug War” — they are trying to fight some secret “gun war”

      I honestly and truly hate Trump, but it is shit like this why I will vote for him hoping he really is not really the statist I believe he is.

      • I don’t think Trump will be a good President but he will be a president that is good for America.

        He’ll also not be able to get Congress to act on his plans. He’ll then issue a blizzard of executive orders that will finally cause Congress to act to restrain the powers of the Office if the President.

        • There are today sufficient votes (members) in House and Senate to stop Trump at every turn. Those same votes would approve, or fail to stop, Hillary ruling by decree.

        • I will say this about Trump: if anything can convince Congress and the courts that the whole Imperial Executive doctrine was a bad idea and needs to be rolled back, it’s a Trump presidency.

        • Define “fired upon.” Oppression can become total and complete without a shot ever being fired.

      • Pfft. You need to lay of the hooch friend, your brain is fevered. The odds that you will get enough Patriots off their respective couches to hold even a good protest are near zero.

        • The 2nd Amendment is supposed to guarantee all the rest. So far, not so much. At this rate we’ll all be impoverished, churches muzzled, free speech outlawed as ‘hateful’, and we’ll all be clutching our rifles, saying, “At least they haven’t taken our guns.”
          I almost hope the Lizard Queen does get in. And I hope she can’t resist the temptation to go for classic libtard overreach and try for an Aussie-style gun grab. No need to bury them in the backyard or claim they were lost in a boating accident; IMNSHO, if they come door-to-door to grab guns, then We the People will finally wake up, and there will be a shooting war.
          Either way, this does not end well…

  6. I just bought new windshield wipers for my car. Does that make me “in the business” of manufacturing automobiles?

    I just poured myself a glass of water- am I in the business of manufacturing alcohol? Or maybe an unlicensed plumber?

    Absurd.

    • “I just poured myself a glass of water, am I in the business of manufacturing alcohol?”

      Of course not … that means you are in the business of being a waiter or bartender!

  7. The absolute beauty of Executive Orders/Actions is they almost never die, can an will be referred to in enforceable regulations long after an EO is cancelled, take years and mega bucks to litigate against, and once undone, can be re-issued.

    Re-loaders, you are probably next.

    • The next President Donald Trump can cancel all EOs in a few days if he wants. He says he gets stuff done and fast.

      • Because they don’t know Jack Shit about guns (other than they’re scary). Wait till they figure out an affordable metal 3d printer is probably less than 10 years away.

      • Stop spreading rumors………

        ITAR explicitly excludes

        DDTC has found that the following instances do not require registration.
        h) Manual loading or reloading of ammunition of .50 caliber or smaller.

  8. Disgusting. Obama and his minions don’t care about crime. They only care about disarming lawful citizens. This will have absolutely no impact on gun crime or mass shootings.

  9. This is the way liberals do things. When they can’t pass legislation because it’s unpopular they take the back door.

    Just look at the proposed M855 ban months back. I don’t know how it is all over the country but around here M855 is cheap and plentiful compared to M193. You can buy M855 in 400 round containers while M193 is limited to 100 rounds per package (limit 2-3 per customer per purchase usually). The price difference is insane too. M193 usually costs nearly double what the M855 costs.

    Now, I sort of assume that this is somewhat similar to the rest of the country where 855 is now more common and at least somewhat cheaper due to what I see on the interwebz in terms of pricing. Also, any TTAG reader knows that pretty much any rifle round will penetrate a soft vest, so “superior lethality to law enforcement” is not a real issue.

    Therefore I surmise that it was an attempt to price most 5.56 shooters out of the market by greatly limiting the supply of ammo and restricting it to the higher priced stuff which would in turn drive the price up even more (combine this with going after lead smelters…). This might have worked itself out over time but I think the immediate goal was clear: attempt to destroy the AR market by making ammo so expensive no one would want to buy an AR or similar rifle due to the cost of feeding it.

    This is no different. They know they can’t pass a bill to kill the 2A or get the “gun control” they want so they’re going to try to destroy the various parts of the firearms market piecemeal.

  10. This is hardly “BREAKING” news;

    Pretty sure I sent several tips about this in when it was proposed for public comment back in April. Only a few thousand folks objected. Gun media & gun forums’ legal minds were convinced it couldn’t possibly apply so broadly, even though it was written clearly to do so. It was hard to convince people of the power grab because ITAR is a confusing law.

    BTW, it’s BS that this applies to FFLs only; ITAR applies to everyone but Hillary same as the Espionage Act, FFLs just have a way to get permission to distribute items & info unlike citizens. Fully enforced, this rule shuts down all technical discussion about modern firearms, period.

  11. The EO seems to focus a lot on cutting and machining in the definitions of “manufacturing.” In that case, this seems to be targeted at 80% lowers. It explicitly doesn’t cover assembling something from a kit where no cutting or machine is required, so assembling a lower from a parts kit is probably still OK.

  12. Considering many 07 FFL manufacturers don’t even pay the ITAR fee, this might not be as big of a deal as it seems.

    • The State Department sent out love letters to a bunch of 07’s a few years back, reminding them that they had to apply for an ITAR license for dual-use or covered items.

      Most people ignored them.

  13. We are pretty much at the point where some level of government demands a license to do just about everything. Here is a tiny sampling of activities which I believe require a license/permit:

    driving (personal or commercial)
    nurse
    physician
    physical therapist
    psychologist / clinical therapist
    phlebotomist
    dentist
    dental hygienist
    barber/hairdresser
    cosmetology
    masseuse / massage therapist
    auto mechanic
    plumber
    electrician
    heating, ventilation, air conditioning technician
    home builder/remodeling
    firearms manufacturer
    firearms repair (gunsmith)
    ammunition manufacturer
    ammunition distributor
    ammunition seller
    demolition
    gasoline station
    accountant
    attorney
    professional engineer
    architect
    surveyor
    teacher (K – 12)
    pilot (airplane)
    pilot (boat/ship)
    restaurant
    banks
    food manufacturing
    alcohol manufacturing
    alcohol distributors
    alcohol sellers (stores)
    alcohol sellers (bars)
    carry concealed handgun
    carry openly visible handgun
    carry rifle
    fishing
    hunting
    trapping
    boating (recreational)
    off-road vehicles
    snowmobiles
    First Amendment activities (permits for assemblies)
    building permits
    watershed/wetland permits

    And this is what I was just able to think of quickly off the top of my head. I am sure I missed hundreds more.

    I recently read a history book. It stated that England was doing the same thing to the Colonists and it was one of the primary reasons why the Colonists started the Revolutionary War. I don’t suppose all these politicians and bureaucrats that demand and manage all these licenses and permits know anything about History?

    • Auto mechanic and professional engineer are not government issues licenses but are accreditations given by professional organizations. They are also not required although they sure do help sometimes.

      • I’m a professional engineer with licenses issued by two different states. My licenses are issued by the state government, and I pay a renewal fee every two years. The Federal government isn’t involved (yet), but the States sure are. If you screw up badly enough, they can fine you or even send you to jail.

        • I’m an architect in Ohio. I have to register with the State of Ohio to renew my Certification every two years. If I don’t, I cannot practice legally. About ten years ago they hired an investigator. Every year, there is a list of violators published. If I am guilty of a felony (MANY crimes are now felonies) I will not be issued a Certificate and lose my livelihood. Sounds like government regulation to me.

      • Vhyrus, It varies widely by state. There are those states what “license” mechanics – really. Better not have a felony, there’s one more job we (selectively) keep those guys out of – cannot imagine why they re-offend when we give them so many opportunities for honest work….

  14. So, should I be a jerk and say that this is the fault of all gun owners? That we have the government we deserve? Enough of you (Americans, living and dead) voted for Obama so you get what you deserve? A lot of you make a pastime of bashing Californians for our loss of gun rights. Well, here’s another federal gun control move. Should I bash all of the US Citizens who may be unlawfully affected by this idiotic edict?

    I’ve got a more productive idea. Let’s band together will a common goal of 2nd Amendment absolutism. Or nearasdamnit.

    • “Should I bash all of the US Citizens who may be unlawfully affected by this idiotic edict?”

      YES ! Elections work the same way at state and federal level; majority of the votes rules.

        • The electoral college works the same as all other voting systems; majority wins. Electors are chosen by…..wait for it…..majority of those voting, or by appointment by an elected official, or other elected person. Everything political comes down to the majority of those voting. If one side is objectively and morally “right”, but does not field sufficient voters on an issue, the objectively and morally “right” faction loses.

          So yes, we (the nation) always get the government we earn.

        • Sam, You also were sick or sleeping during civics class – or you skipped the test (we had to take it to graduate from 8th grade, but I digress).

          The Electoral College (“electors”) are by design, the final check and balance on the general populace. The FFs knew that misplaced populism can be very, very dangerous. That is why this is NOT a democracy – it is a Constitutional Republic.

          http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html#whyec

        • Of course we don’t have a democracy… at the national level. My point is the majority of voters actually determine outcomes EVEN FOR THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE ! Are you of the understanding that the candidate receiving the fewest votes wins?

          The electors from the states are, uuuhhmmm, elected….by majority of those voting on the electors.

          Majority of voters rules, everywhere, everytime. Until a court steps in and determines otherwise.

          So, yes, we earn the governance we receive.

        • So, you were sleeping in civics – I understand, it was rather boring to most kids. And you didn’t obviously didn’t read the link…

          How electors are chosen varies widely by state, none are chosen by any direct public vote. More importantly they are not required by Federal Law to accurately reflect the vote of the population of the state they represent. Some are bound by state law, but that wouldn’t prevent them from actually casting their vote. In other words…

          YES, IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT A CANDIDATE WHO RECEIVED FEWER PUBLIC VOTES CAN BE CHOSEN BY THE ELECTORS IN CONTRAVENTION OF THE POPULAR VOTE.

          That’s why we have electors. The Founders never trusted the people completely, and history showed them not to. The problem is that is a double-edged sword, and if Trump wins the popular vote, they may put in the pantsuit anyway.

        • One more time….it is always about the majority of those voting. The electors of the electoral college obtain that position however their state determines. If there is no public vote on electors, whoever officially designates a person a delegate achieved the designation power through majority vote.

          When the official electors finally get around to casting ballots, the candidates who gets the most votes (most often the majority of votes) wins the election – by majority vote of the electors. When things get messy, and the electors cannot arrive at a winner, the matter go to the House of Representatives (which is made up of people elected by the majority (even a plurality is a “majority” of sorts). The House conducts a vote, with each state delegation having one vote. At that point, the person receiving a simple MAJORITY OF THE VOTES wins.

          No matter how you slice it, majority rules. The public may majority vote for one person, and the electors vote for another. Majority rules. The public may majority vote for one person, and the electors vote for the same person. Majority rules.

          We earn the government we deserve. If your group opposes my group, and my group wins the election, the failure of your group helped determine the outcome. Ultimately, even the failed part of the populace gets the government they earned. No one wins elections by simply being “right”, just, morally superior, or whatever. Elections are won via vote count. If you win big, the other side cannot successfully cheat. If you win small, and the other side actually cheats their way to a win, your side still earned the government they end up with. There is no blaming someone else for failure to win. Well….unless you are a demoncrat, statist,leftist, progressive, then you blame the voters for not hearing your message properly.

        • Holy shit – when you are wrong, the only thing to do is double down on the wrong. Dems, Goebbels, or some confluence thereof teach you that crap?

          So you have now conceded that the majority of the popular vote does not automatically get the White House. Congrats, I’ll drag you along, kicking and screaming, until you actually understand The Founders intent.

          When the majority of “electors” does not agree with the “majority” of the voting public, there’s a problem “reconciling” majorities. Which “majority” wins again? The ones who voted in a popular election, or the ones who voted, to actually elect The President, generally independent of the popular vote.

          Please shove the rest of your uninformed nonsense where the sun don’t shine. You apparently have no idea how the process actually works, and are just spewing word salad to the uninformed.

        • As I noted, majority rules. That is it. The majority of electors determines the winner (a fact I did not dispute, ever). If the electors cannot select a winner, the vote goes to the House of Representatives, where the majority of votes determines the winner/president. Where did you run off the rails? The vitriol you so quickly default to is quite interesting, but results in needles conflict and aggression on your part.

          Please note, you have, each time, agreed with me that the majority rules, whichever majority is appropriate at the time. Which was always my theme.

          I may have overreached, but I detected a belief that the EC is some sort of celestial body that will set aside personal and party prejudices, and see to it that the eventual election of the president (by the EC) will result in somehow “saving” the country from base instincts and factional prejudice. The EC will not and cannot “save” the nation from its folly. Look at the make-up of the electors. Do you see people of high principle, or simply party hacks who seek their own favor? There are 538 electors. Right now, today, Hillary has 240 electoral votes locked-up. She needs 271 to win decisively, 270 to lurch across the finish line. Trump has 155. He must run the table in all the swing states. And even then, he possibly faces die-hard Repubs who would rather see Hillary win.

          In the end, majority (of the EC) wins. A fact you still cannot refute.

    • Barely squeaking by in an election is a far cry from Commiefornia where 99.999999% of the population votes Soviet in every election.

  15. Did you notice the line about systemized or automated production of ammunition, including reloading? Maybe I should buy that reloading equipment I’ve been looking at before it gets taken away.

    • It is not the buying of equipment, but the “manufacture”; whenever it is performed. Every gunsmith could buy all the equipment available anywhere, but if not engaged in manufacturing then the restrictions do not apply. A gunsmith could probably do anything he/she likes to personal guns, and who would know when it was done? But the first time such gunsmith produces a “manufactured” item for a buyer, then ITAR applies.

      BTW, this is not the first time we have seen articles on using ITAR to end the private ownership, planning, building, supplying, and maintaining guns. The government is simply provoking “the gun industry” to challenge this in court. Once they win, every element of guns will be regulated out of existence.

    • I saw that and I am wondering if impacts everyone who reloads.

      This is one crap EO

      I suspect he will have more before he leaves office.

  16. ITAR & feather

    This is Ohole POTUS tax thru the State Dept. to protect foreign citizens from U.S. Manufacturers.

    Load of CR_P.

  17. Damn it… That totally BLOWS an idea for a side business, doing small runs of uncommon gun parts. Am I now going to have to register every single little bolt or replacement hammer for some antique handgun? #thanksobama

      • In Taiwan the underground economy for otherwise legal things is apparently so big the government started including lotto tickets on receipts for above ground businesses.

  18. So, since I work as a programmer… if I write an implementation of AES256 (for whatever reason)… or even *part* of such an implementation… my company has to pay $2250 a year extra to the Fed?

    I don’t think they thought this through very well….

    • “I don’t think they thought this through very well….”

      Oh, yes they did. Government workers are more devious, sly and cunning than you imagine. They live to use word play to trick the public into less and less freedom. I know; I was one of them.

  19. I will not comply. In fact, I have already not complied. I intend to not comply yet again with a Mosin Nagant later today. Dear Leader, GFY.

  20. yet another law to be ignored, brought to you by the democrats.

    Undermining the concept of “voluntary consent” since 1933.

  21. Guess some gun owners are going to have to switch to models that don’t require an insane amount of “tuning” after purchase.

    OK, I couldn’t resist that little dig. This will ultimately affect everything we do.

  22. I hope Dyspeptic (and every other custom smith in the country) has another job lined up (or a lot of money in the bank). The “guidance specifies that the following constitute “manufacturing”:

    2. Registration Required – Manufacturing: In response to questions from persons engaged in the business of gunsmithing, DDTC has found in specific cases that ITAR registration is required because the following activities meet the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of “manufacturing” and, therefore, constitute “manufacturing” for ITAR purposes:
    a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms;
    b) Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity;
    c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors);
    d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition;
    e) The machining or cutting of firearms, e.g., threading of muzzles or muzzle brake installation requiring machining, that results in an enhanced capability;
    f) Rechambering firearms through machining, cutting, or drilling;
    g) Chambering, cutting, or threading barrel blanks; and
    h) Blueprinting firearms by machining the barrel.

  23. Where’s the NPRM? The 60 day comment process? The promulgation in the Federal Register?

    The rule, as written, even if issued by EO, is invalid. They decided to short-cut all the require processes.

    We’ve been down this road before. The BATF tried to argue that “any substantial increase in the value of a firearm” constituted manufacturing a bit over 10 years ago. This resulted in hilarious interpretations where someone brings a Remington 870 to you with a broken firing pin.

    What’s a shotgun worth that won’t fire? Not much.

    How much is a firing pin? Back then, I seem to recall the FP was about $12.

    So the ATF was trying to argue that replacing a $12 firing pin, which make a wall-hanger into an operational shotgun, was a manufacturing process.

    This will need to be ultimately closed by legislation, taking away the ability to interpret what is ‘manufacturing’ in ITAR from the State Department.

      • This could be a new reg with its own period, but they are definitely linked so this may merely be ‘marching orders’ rather than the reg change on display, with no comment period. The reg change proposed (and ignored by nearly all) last June was to bring basically everything to do with small arms tech under ITAR purview, this current change is to apply that new logic to gunsmiths who had previously been able to avoid ITAR compliance by limiting their activities. Before, adding a scope, threading a barrel, and bedding a stock for a new rifle required no ITAR tax/fee, since no “defense articles” of concern to State Dept were being made or handled. They declared those activities to be “defense articles” last year, ergo those performing them must now register with State at a cost of nearly three grand, for starters.

        Would love a real lawyer who knows fed regs to look this one over; I R an enginur and really not qualified, but the language seems clear(ish)

        More scary is that since ITAR is all about protecting defense assets and advantages in tech (the way the Espionage Act is about protecting defense information), it darn sure applies to individuals, and not just licensed/registered manufacturers –they just have a means of paying money to go about their business, we civvies could theoretically be punished for ‘exporting’ mere technical information they deem ITAR ‘defense articles,’ like 3D printer or CAD files, or tactics manuals, or maintenance instructions, by such simple acts as putting them on online servers/sites accessible to foreign persons (even inside US borders). Obama’s basically saying he’s only going after smiths in the biz, though, for now…

    • Actually, there is a “loophole”. If the EO/EA merely modifies a standing regulation, no public comment is required. For instance, if a law regulating movement of product by truck existed, and the government decided (for whatever reason) to modify the regulation to include words such as, ” movement by truck, car, train, or any other vehicle moving via surface transportation or air vehicle…”, that change would not require public comment because the authority to regulate truck transportation already existed, and the government is “clarifying” that the intent of the original law was to cover all modes of transportation.

      In the current case, ITAR already exists, already regulates weapons manufacture. The government is only “clarifying” what “manufacture” means; no public comment required.

      • Modifying the regulation itself would usually require a comment period.

        Changing how an agency is instructed to interpret the law or regulation usually does not.

        • Changing how an agency is instructed to interpret the law or regulation “usually does not.”

          Exactly. Defining, or expanding the meaning of “manufacture” is clarification and interpretation of the existing term “manufacture”.

        • Hence, why it was done like this. But seriously, they are going to do what ever they want at this point. The entirety of the Watergate Affair – is pretty much now known as “running an effective campaign” – Fedzilla does as it pleases, with bread and circuses for the plebes, and a TV clown-show that is straight out of the Goebbels handbook.

          There’s a way to weasel-word their way around whatever “law” you think applies, regardless of situation. AG meets privately with husband of subject of investigation? No problem. Letters reveal the DNC chose Hildebeast before Bernie even showed up? No problem. Fourth Amendment? Secret court, secret judge, secret words, render them. No problem.

  24. Reasonable and sensible Gunsense to promote Gunsafety! Obonzo and Hitlery really are for the Common Man!

  25. I was planning on buying a kit from Track of the Wolf, but I wonder if that company will survive. This means that they would have to register under ITAR because they manufacture–to what level is up to you from blanks to fully inlet–stocks for black powder rifles, and will fit, if requested, the breech block in the barrel. Their sources for the brass fittings (triggers, trigger guards, end caps, base plates) will have to register, as will the manufacturer of the lock work, as well as the three manufacturers of barrels.

    There is no logical reason for extension of ITAR to black powder rifles sold for domestic consumption.

  26. ” For the purpose of this subchapter, engaging in such a business requires only one occasion of
    manufacturing or exporting or temporarily importing a defense article or furnishing a
    defense service. A manufacturer who does not engage in exporting must nevertheless
    register. ”

    Does not require registration: “Manual loading or reloading of ammunition of .50 caliber or smaller. ”

    Does Require registration: “The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or
    reloading of ammunition; ”

    This seems quite concerning to me. My reading and limited understanding indicate this is pointed at 80% receivers and possibly volume reloders. Does a Dillon 550 offer systemized production?

    • Separating “manual” and systemized reloading will be key. The government is tricky, so if you have any element of your home reloading process that relies on other then manual (hand-operated) action, you are “systemized”. Caliber wouldn’t matter. Any activity (electric or pnuematic?) that is not conducted by hand operation will be allocated to be “systemized”, regardless of caliber.

    • Yes, it’s after the 80% mostly. A friend of mine told me over two years ago that his neighbor who worked for DHS told him that it had already been decided that 80% were going away. Fuck them. At this point I’ll volunteer for the test case.

  27. This isnt about gun control. this is about national control. The police, the Federal system, the Government are the most worthless cowards when it comes to gun violence. One very smart man once said, ” If we had the courage, to go in to these places in our communities where gangs, thugs, sex traders, drug lords all control these places and take them all out systematically, we would not have any race problems, any gun crimes or any animosity by anyone who would not harm people like they do.”

    The police system is so afraid of the criminal element, they would rather do paperwork and send bodies to the morgue than to go out and stop this criminal element than to actually protect the American populace. It is unfathomable why these crimes are happening other than the fact that the very people who keep us safe are contributing to the problem and will do nothing to stop it.

  28. I’m 100% straight, but if President Trump sends Obama to Gitmo and throws away the key, I’ll give him the full Monica treatment every day for the rest of his life.

    • Trump has a surgically-perfected Eastern European model taking care of that type of ‘lip service’ for him.

      And when he tires of that one, he’ll kick her to the curb like the previous two wives and get him a new one.

      Yeah, it’s good to have ‘that kind of money’… 🙂

      • Eh, you can get close to it just by working out, eating healthy, and not being foolish enough to get married.

  29. Are bullets considered articles by this standard? If so, does that mean every guy with a reloading bench is now required to pay the 2K per year?

    • Found my answer. Manual reloaders don’t have to worry but some of the higher end reloaders from Dillon and hornady have motorized components that speed the process along, I’d wager these may fall under the microscope soon enough.

      The part that concerns me most is this:

      “Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity”

      Sounds like a precursor to a federal push to limit magazine capacity to me…

  30. What’s remarkable is an army of administrators are focused on pleasing that son of mud sharkin, socialist bitch; who’s goal is to make America a third work collectie shit hole. I wouldn’t waste the powder on him but line up everyone that does his bidding next to a ditch.

  31. Totally irrelevant to many firearm parts manufacturers. Do you have a contract with the US government? No? Then ignore this bull crap. Do you ship firearm parts outside the US? No? Ignore this bull crap. You make CUSTOM stalks, sights, magazines, trigger groups, billet 80% and FFL lower, billet uppers…etc…? If you don’t have a contract with the US government you don’t make “DEFENSE ARTICLES”. This lame attempt to “re-classify” is illegal and it’s DEFINITELY unconstitutional. It’s grasping at straws. It’s the lefts “Direct Action” tactic….just do illegal stuff and get away with it long enough to make some of it stick. As if ITAR trumps the Second Amendment.

    • it was explained to me in Gunsmith school, that technically all firearms, thats all firearms fall under the umbrella of the department of defense. So yes contract or not you are dealing with “firearms” that are controlled entities by the government. If that handgun you sold to a friend somehow ends up in the hands of a foreign entity you are F****d.it seems like its easy to happen nowadays. remember that plumber whose truck he traded in ended up with ISIS like 6 months later. crazy shit happens all the time.

  32. This link should clear a bunch things up:

    https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/07/25/ddtc-issues-guidance-on-itar-registration/

    DDTC states that if you are engaged in any of the following you are required to register for under ITAR.

    a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms;

    b) Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity;

    c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors);

    d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition;

    e) The machining or cutting of firearms, e.g., threading of muzzles or muzzle brake installation requiring machining, that results in an enhanced capability;

    f) Rechambering firearms through machining, cutting, or drilling;

    g) Chambering, cutting, or threading barrel blanks; and

    h) Blueprinting firearms by machining the barrel.

    Of particular interest is the guidance that now offering barrel threading services will result in an FFL being required to register for ITAR. This will certainly put a financial burden on the smaller gunsmiths who are threading barrels as registration for ITAR is $2,250 a year

  33. This is infuriating on multiple levels. I’ve had to deal with ITAR in the past, and it’s a massive pain with real teeth. ITAR was going through significant reform (Export Control Reform) were the WHOLE POINT of the reform was to separate common components and operations from those that were specifically defense in nature. This is literally the opposite and seeks to classify wide swaths of business activities.

    As an aside, Category I reform has been held in limbo for years and I was told by staffers (years ago) it was because each time the president was ready to approve changes another “event” happened and he was told he could not “soften” firearms regulations due to the political environment. I no longer buy that line; I wonder if they were in fact fishing for new angles.

    The WHOLE POINT of the reform was to separate common components and operations from those that were specifically defense in nature.

  34. No one here realizes this is just to shut up the hobbyists on YouTube who are making a mockery out of all gun control, in all nations, by 3D printing new semi-automatic gun designs each week?

    Governor Gary Johnson for President 2016.

    #feelthejohnson

  35. Folks, its far from a sure thing that Trump will get in. There are a lot of dumb ass people in this country and more pouring in every day. Many who want to either suck off it or destroy it as we know it. This has nothing to do with making anyone safe of fixing any problem. It has every thing to do with making harder for people to have and own guns. What does this mean if an individual makes these changes them self to a gun? The order is so broad it could be that if someone put a commentator on a gun its manufacturing. The goal is to make it so hard to navigate the waters that many will give up. This is nothing more than mining the waters of gun owners.

  36. Well, I feel so much safer now. Next Obama will require anyone who puts air in car tires to be a fully licensed chemist.

  37. In the great state of Illinois all you have to due is “assemble” firearms to be considered a manufacturer.

    • the last time the Batf checked my books they reminded me that if i added anything to a firearm that was not already installed at the factory it would be considered manufactured at my place. Anything,,, stock,grip,scope, bases, But that after it was sold to the customer we could add anything they wanted and that would just be accessorizing this was several months ago.

      • you are correct, here the batf told me, if i bought the components, assembled and sold it i was manufacturing. if they ordered the components, d to my shop and I assembled i was just gunsmithing and not manufacturing. it was something odd like that. in the first instance, i “manufactured” something for sale. in the second instance, I was just assembling someone elses possession but it sounds like with this new EO I would be a manufacturer either way.

  38. How exactly can an international trade treaty be used to regulate and apply fees to someone not engaged in international trade?

    • Same way interstate commerce clause is used to regulate personal possessions. Unconstitutionally.

      • If the “commerce clause” is part of the constitution (and it is), then how can regulating anything via the clause be “unconstitutional”? The founders recognized the unlimited power of “the clause” and wrestled with it mightily. The simple intent was to prevent the states from waging economic war on each other. And you now how that goes.

        “The clause” is actually limitless, and could be used to render the rest of the constitution moot. It is how the Civil Rights Act of 1968 was extended into private businesses. Use of the clause overturned the I believe it was Justice Scalia who stated in an opinion that the use of “the clause” in the case at hand was tenuous, but permitted, while holding that “the clause” was not entirely limitless (yet, Scalia made no comment regarding where that limit might be).

  39. The ITAR munitions list covers a lot more than firearms. Using the new definition of “manufacturing”, aircraft and marine mechanics would need an ITAR license. almost any type of DIY hobbyist would be affected also, electronics, model rocketry, RC aviation, amateur telescope making, and many other hobbies and small businesses.

    • The core issue is “dual-use technology”. Any item that can be used for civilian purposes, but that can also be applied to/inserted into a weapon system of any kind, is subject to ITAR regulation. What is new is the expanded definition of “manufacture”. Since any and all guns can be pressed into military service, guns are “dual-use” (effectiveness is not an element of consideration). Therefore, all manufacturers of firearms must register under ITAR. Home-builds were not covered by ITAR because hobbyists were not “in the business” of making and selling firearms (there was originally no definition of “in the business”, and “common sense” eliminated the idea that a hobbyist would ever be “in the business”). The latest EO changes that, also.

      Keep your eye on “systemized” (automated). I expect that the use of any tool not completely hand-powered will be considered “automated”, and thus trigger application of the new rule NOTWITHSTANDING the “carve-out” for ammunition manufacture (reloading) of .50 caliber or less. In government rules, law, thinking and theory, whenever a document has conflicting guidance on the same subject, the most restrictive provision supersedes.

  40. What ever happened to “shall not be infringed” ?

    “One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” — Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  41. This is not new. The current administration started enforcement in November 2012, forcing the ATF to verify registration of all 07 FFL holders. The DDTC will not grant exceptions and are vague to the interpretation of the law. I have a letter stating they can define the law as they see fit, no matter what the Federal Register states. The ATF is NOT in support of the DDTC and will not answer questions about the ITAR. The over all premise of the ITAR is to register anyone who can or does work/posses firearms. A database that cannot be compiled by the ATF, by law.

  42. Paul Patriot says:
    July 28, 2016 at 17:49

    “You are putting way too much trust in a guy who calls the gun hating state of NY home.”

    A guy who has had a carry license in NY for quite some time.

  43. If the Congress doesn’t pass a law overturning his executive order, then all legislators should all be voted out of office!

  44. “Government agencies have a large amount of leeway when it comes to the interpretation of the law and how it applies to the American people . . . .” Actually, that is absolutely untrue. Government agencies are constrained by the legislation they are charged to enforce. The fact that government agencies unlawfully do not abide by those constraints is another issue. Wouldn’t it be nice if the U.S. federal government contained some checks and balances amongst its branches?

    • Technically they are bound by Rules and Regulation, the problem stems from the fact they will and do re-write those Rules and regulations any time they interfere with their interests and objectives. Makes it real easy to break the laws when you can change them to suit your position by Executive Order at will.

  45. So what the President has done is criminalized “gunsmithing”. So since mom and pop shops may go out of business, inexperienced and untrained individuals will try and repair their own firearms. this will cause the numbers of injuries to increase thus giving “them” more negative numbers to use against the ownership of firearms. this is a calculated chess move. You see a simple example is this. last time they banned threaded barrels, now it costs to much to offer that service. I went to school and obtained my degree in “gunsmithing”. never got my FFL because of the county I live in. I think I will go ahead and get it, since my other job can afford the yearly fee. I am also a registered nurse.

    • Based on the excerpt below, I think this is broader than that and this is aimed at Cody Wilson and anyone else looking to use his device to make an 80% receiver or to try and print a gun. It may well be aimed at reloaders too. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.

      §122.1 Registration requirements.

      (a) Any person who engages in the United States in the business of manufacturing or
      exporting or temporarily importing defense articles, or furnishing defense services, is
      required to register with the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls under §122.2. For
      the purpose of this subchapter, engaging in such a business requires only one occasion of
      manufacturing or exporting or temporarily importing a defense article or furnishing a
      defense service. A manufacturer who does not engage in exporting must nevertheless
      register.

    • When Guns are Outlawed, only Outlaws will have Guns! This Country was built on freedoms that we have allowed our Government to slowly take from US, at some point the Free People will have no Freedom and the choice will become only one of two, One: Lay down and surrender all freedoms, Two: Stand and Fight against Tyrannical Oppressors.

  46. f this is true, why aren’t MSM or liberal sources mentioning it.

    I think it sounds great but am skeptical of the sources.

    (Edit : To answer my own question, here is the full text of Obama’s only Executive order since July1. It IS about the agency in question. Other than that the news story is complete fiction. Shocker.)

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/07/22/executive-order-delegation-certain-authorities-and-assignment-certain

  47. Socialism is the message, Marxism is the strategy and Fascism is the goal…

    Democrats lost America’s first Civil War because they enslaved Black people. Democrats are going to lose America’s second Civil War because they attempted to enslave everyone else…

    Not every Democrat was a KuKluxKlan member, but every KuKluxKlan member was a democrat.

    When peaceful recourse is denied, violent redress becomes justified, it becomes manifold.

  48. Man, I wish that cadre of “pro-gun,” Obama-Supporting delusionals who showed up around the last election would come back to account for itself.

  49. We are creative bunch there are ways around this… Create a gunsmithing coop. meaning a group of FFL smiths get together and determine which has the better shop… Then you “transfer” your manufacturing work to that smith’s FFL# then transfer back… you get 4 to 10 smiths pitching in on the fees and you can still accomplish your goals by using oone FFL that pays the blood money.. it can be a flat fee OR based on percentage of “manufacturing”

    • And there are ways around that. Government is a lot smarter than you credit. They benefit from us thinking they are a bunch of clueless dimwits. Note how Hillary is now saying she relied on “professionals” to tell her if her emails contained classified content, and the professionals failed her.

  50. NRA cited U.S. Munitions List, and that it includes some, but not all, firearms and ammunition, as well as their parts and components.

    So the key to the true scope of this Executive Order lies in the firearms in that list. And I think we all know what is in that list that’s going to be affected: AR and AK pattern rifles. They’re not going to go after the shade tree gunsmith who threads the barrel on the bolt action rifle so you can put a suppressor on it, but they are going to go after the guys who are building modern sporting rifles.

  51. Many of you are missing the point. Currently I’m a gunsmith. To become a manufacturer / gunsmith I will pay the manufacture fees $2250. All that means instead of my hourly rate being $65 it will become $80 and a barrel and center line chamber will be $250-500 more then the current prices.

    Sorry but its a lot cheaper to pay the extra fees then to fight in court. In court you loose money, lawyers make money and I can’t stand most lawyers and you may loose your freedom, not worth the risk. I’m a one man show and it will be so much easier to pay the fees and pass the cost on to you. Sorry but that’s reality.

    • This is all academic/theoretical for me, but I am glad you are in a position to survive this change; many (the real targets) will not. As to simply bowing to the inevitable and simply charging more, prices are not completely elastic. There can come a time when professional gunsmithing will be too expensive, and business will drop off. If raising the minimum wage will result in costs driving small business our, and large businesses to lose customers, the same would be true for practicing gunsmiths, regardless of their historic success at lower prices.

      As to lawsuits being too expensive, that is the point of almost all government regulation; drive unwanted business to failure. BTW, Operation Chokepoint is still alive.

    • So just raising the price on the consumer is the solution? I’m not sure if you understand the entirety of this legislation, it certainly isn’t about raising the cost to your clients. There is a much larger issue at stake, like you won’t be building anything for anybody for any price if we allow ourselves to be taken down this road very far. This is just the turn off onto a whole other road of restriction and limitations for everyone.

    • I really am disappointed by your resolution that it’s to hard to fight, so you apologize for rolling over and just plan to charge more to cover the cost. What about having a SPINE and FIGHTING for justice and fairness in your profession? this Ruling is wrong and unconstitutional, but you can afford it so, “Sorry, I will just charge more” You really are missing the whole Big Picture around this, and what it means for everyone not just Gunsmiths.

  52. One smart quote to remember…”I’ll give up my gun, when they pry my cold, dead fingers from around it”
    Elect Hillary, and we might as well pray for the Rapture!! Another 4 years of “Obama”, and we’re done, but it’s all part of a greater plan, either way!

  53. The basic claim of the article, that this is an Executive Order, is an outright lie. Whatever you think of the issue, that is a fact that cannot be ignored.

    • It would seem that all the power is in the Governments hands. The Idea that the Government is run By the people for The people has long slipped into a Government run By the Government For the Government. We have the power and technology to create a true Democracy, If you are eligible to vote, ie. by providing your SSC, Legal ID that you are a citizen you would then be provided an access number to log into a secure voting site and vote. No need for representatives that vote the way they are told to by the Government and Big Corporation. US Citizens would vote for themselves and a decision would be decided by majority vote. The need for a Represented vote is no longer necessary because computers can count individual votes on dozens of different proposed legislation with ease.

      • Current technology notwithstanding, you are simply talking about reverting from a representative democracy (republic) to a pure democracy; where whatever hot button tickles the majority becomes law. Removing the representatives leaves absolutely nothing between fever and a demagogue.

        BTW, the same idea was flogged to the public (1992) by Ross Perot, CEO of Perot Systems (1992). Most likely his 3rd party run gave the election to Monica’s boyfriend.

        • I’m not talking about going from a vote to law with nothing in between. I’m talking about pure Democratic consideration rather than a False Representational vote. The State Representatives were created in a time that individual voting would have been impossible to track and make sure One person voted once. We don’t need State Representatives that vote however they decide regardless of their constituents votes. This is what I believe could be removed from our voting system and our budget, how much tax payer money goes to support the State Representatives? They vote however Big Business and the Favors they owe dictate them to, not how the people in the State they represent want them to and that’s not how it’s supposed to work.

        • The “representative democracy” was not created because voting would otherwise be too slow and difficult. Representation was created as the first-level firewall. The founders knew full well what a fired-up voting public (which did not include the average person in many colonies/states) could do. The firewall was established to slow down democracy. The next firewall was appointment of senators from each state. The idea being those representatives would have a wider portfolio, representing the entire state, versus a single district. The next firewall is the dual house system. The senate was the deliberative body just for the purpose of cooling tempers and passions generally expected in the house of representatives. The final firewall was the veto power of the president (with the backstop of having the senate override the president). None of it was predicated on speed of communication. Democracies are democracies. Sparta had to defend Athens against the Persians because the government in Athens (a pure democracy) could not get their act together in deciding whether to oppose the Persians.

          Direct electronic voting on issues does, indeed, go from vote to law. What technology would be placed into effect to prevent such outcome?

          At this point in time, only two states are not “winner take all” when it comes to posting electors to the EC. Given that 48 states constrain their electors to vote only for the candidate who won the popular vote in the state, the EC is rather curious in its continuation.

        • BTW, Sam do you have a problem with PURE DEMOCRACY? You know Majority Rules, not who has the most money. I don’t mean to offend and I’m not a Democrat in the Political Sense but I do feel that individuals legally registered to vote in a one for one situation to make decisions that are put to vote by the rest of our Government, all of which should be voted into office and not Grandfathered in, would be better served by a true Democratic Vote rather than a Representative vote with underlying agentive and political obligation.

        • “BTW, Sam do you have a problem with PURE DEMOCRACY?”

          The founders had a distaste for it, so, yes, it is a problem for me (and I am way dumber than any one of the founders).

  54. This Executive Order is just another chip at the foundation this Country was built on and the Constitution created to keep the Power and Decisions in the hands of the People, not the Ruling Class such as in the Monarchy our forefathers fled from. Every amendment that takes away the rights set forth by the Founders of the Constitution is one step closer to a Country with a Dictatorial Rule. How far we have fallen from the Tree of Freedom and Democracy.

    • @Carol…
      Congress does not “make law” in the sense of everyday regulation. Congress does not generally detail how the law will be enforced.

      So, if Congress tells the President (via legislation) establish an agency to control gun ownership and use in this country, the details are left to the executive. Subsequently, drones in the executive branch create implementing orders that have the effect of law (as if Congress itself had written the detailed implementa

      In the instance cited, two executive agencies provided detailed implementing regulations (which go through a notice and comment period). Further, those agencies determined that clarification of one or more provision in the regulations was needed. Clarifications do not require “notice and comment”.

      Even in the time of the founders, when life was considerably less complex, there was never any intent (stated or implied) that Congress would write detailed “laws” that would cover every conceivable situation is each and every state and district. Almost all “the law” as we know it today was neither written, nor conceived, by Congress. Read the constitution,

      • I think both you and carol are wrong. Constitution does not tell congress to make laws. But congress DOES makes laws. “regulations” are laws on steroids.

        Quote:
        1. Q: Has the Constitution always guided the country?

        A: No. Originally the nation functioned under the Continental Congress and the Articles of Confederation. But after 11 years under the Articles, the U.S. Constitution was written, agreed to, and ratified by nine states (all eventually ratified but only nine were needed to have it take effect). On September 13, 1788, the Continental Congress proclaimed that the Constitution had been properly ratified and it ordered the new government to convene on March 4, 1789.
        end quote:

        Part of the law making process is establishing the process of enforcement like stating “this agency is to do this, this and this, if rule such and such is broken.”

        The problem is law making of late has been outsourced to third parties who are LEAVING OUT the enforcement portion of the law or the “intent to commit a crime portion of the law.” etc. Creating “incomplete bills”

        Look at the actual laws of Fore vs today and see the difference. To simplify your research process, look at the state level. State level laws are a simpler shorter versions, of the federal level.

        Example I looked at a state one recently and about 1/4 to 1/3 was about the law or regulations and 3/4 to 2/3 was “how to” or “the process” of ‘ENFORCEMENT ” of that law.

        “Sam I am”: What your describing is the “establishment of agencies” that will over see the law Congress and president created jointly. But the law itself is written by Congress and how it is to be enforced, example stating such and such agency will monitor and act in this fashion when enforcing this law. The president then figures out how the inner workings of the agency will work But has to stay within the framework congress set for him or her, on how the agency will “enforce the law”.

        Look at the instructions given in executive order to tell the VA to “reinterpret the definition of mental incompetence”. regarding the Second amendment. The agency IS NOT ALLOWED to define the law or how it works. (which you just claimed the president and agency does.) The example I gave is NOT law making its a reinterpretation of a definition of mental incompetence. The law itself is NOT getting modified or made by either executive or agency. its just being “Clarified” . And that is the stickler, Where the “Clarifying” is written in such a way as to change the “function” of the law. In regards to who gets excluded from exercising the second amendment. By clarifying that “incompetence” means something “different” than “danger to self and others” and thus added a WHOLE BUNCH of people who WERE NOT meant to be excluded from the Second amendment rights, when the original bill was written by congress and passed into law. The “cause and effect” of the “Clarification” then was “the law was rewritten by Obama and the VA. because the law no longer works as it was originally meant to do, which was to only forbid “dangerous people” “who were a danger to self or others”

        So in essence, Obama used “executive order” to VA to “re-clarify” what Mental incompetence meant. And in doing so it fundamentally altered the “intended function of the law” Which was to “exclude ONLY dangerous people” that was established by congress in how the law was written and works and what it did. The “cause and effect” was the “law was rewritten” by Obama and the VA, that effects veterans and military personnel.

        This is what Carol was referring too. when Carol said congress is the one that makes laws. Carol is right in that regard.
        Quote:

        “Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States: If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.”

        — Article I, Section 7, Clause 2
        end quote:

        ^^^ that is what Carol was referring too, in general / part . when carol said congress makes the laws

        Congress got too lazy in its law making process. and its not entirely their fault. our reforming efforts, over the years, of what we thought of as corruption, essentially removed the grease that made our government work smoothly.

        The problem of late has been too many bills that are submitted are “incomplete” Thus leading to the problem of “Incomplete laws” where “intent to commit a crime” and “enforcement processes” are often left out or there are holes in the law itself. This is ESPECIALLY true for the “regulation based” bills and laws, Written by congress. They focus too much on the regulation portion of the bill/law, other parts of the bill/law get neglected. And thus the agencies are left to “CLARIFY” the “portions” that is the law itself, to try and plug the holes, left by the “incomplete law”.
        Only in Obama case, he is MANIPULATING the “executive order” process by: Exploiting the flaws of “incomplete laws” or the exploiting the “clarification process” he is allowed to do, through executive orders. Where the “CAUSE AND EFFECT” is “Writing new laws” or “rewriting existing laws”, which is suppose to be held, exclusively by congress in regards to “Writing new laws” and “rewriting existing laws”.

        • Thank you for the detailed analysis; quite good.

          The discussion is about who “makes law” in the practical sense, as in “how things actually work”.

          Fact is Congress does not write detailed bills which executive agencies then apply AS WRITTEN, and only as written. In actuality, agencies write “laws” via their implementing orders and regulations. To use your example, the VA may be directed by legislation to clarify something. VA is not ordered to clarify using specific wording from the legislation requiring “clarification” of some existing provision. Which is where I pointed-out that Congress does not make all the rules, regulations, policies that executive agencies apply in implementing the original legislation. Through “clarification”, or some other act of interpretation, executive agencies DO create new law. Using the VA again, it was not Congress, via any mechanism, that directed that a VA bureaucrat would individual determine, without true due process, that a veteran who had someone help with managing finances could and would be declared incompetent to own a firearm. The VA (and Soc Sec Admin) made it unlawful for a person not involuntarily confined to a mental facility to possess a firearm (which also prohibits anyone else in that household from possessing a firearm. The VA and Soc Sec Admin created new law, not Congress.

      • The constitution is the body of rules that the “GOVERNMENT” must follow. NOT “The people”

        The constitution is Meant to keep the government from ‘ABUSING the people” by setting decrees of HOW the government is to “act” when “governing the people”

        Its the “laws” that government creates that “the people must follow”

        • And what laws do the Government Obey when the blatantly disregard the Constitution, rewrite and implement law without following Constitutional directive?

  55. I really think many of you are NOT SEEING the big picture. And the ‘INTENDED DIRECT CONSEQUENCES” here.
    Many of these small gunsmiths set ups is “accumulated experience”.

    This sudden out of the blue new “tax” (license) is designed to KILL the accumulated experience of “modifying firearms. or restoring firearms”

    MOST of these people, who have small setups will be forced to “STOP” their gun-smithing because they do not have the $2250 laying around every year.

    By the time this mess is straightened out the smiths will have moved on , sold off their smithing set ups and will have no intention of returning to it, if having to re buy all the equipment and licenses, insurances, that they accumulated over time.

    All of this is a direct attack on the second amendment, by eliminating a very large portion of the restoration and modding, firearm community.

    Look at the walmart issues and the mom and pop stores as proof of concept. Only on a MUCH shorter time scale as in a year or two, instead of a decade or more.

    Also look what happened when: the “letting go” of “accumulated knowledge” on oil rigs. Plane industry moving plants to another state, The closing of the steel industry, etc when sudden employee lay offs and firings, BP oil spill, Trouble with new planes not being flight worthy. Loss of accumulated knowledge and ability to make high quality strong steel.

    We suffered when we lost that accumulated knowledge and experience. If world trade shut down tomorrow we would collapse because we no longer are able to do it for ourselves anymore due to loss of that experience and capability to do it ourselves.

    This this executive order, is also a lot like the “DMCA” which is suppose to stop “circumvention of Copy right protections”. But is instead primarily being used as a “censure-ship tool” of the first amendment.

    Once the damage is done, its too late to reverse it. The accumulated knowledge is lost.

    Obama Knew this, when He issued this order, the effect it would have. He needs to be removed from office NOW, before he can do any more executive orders. Obama has proven himself to be the enemy of the people. And is setting up a dictatorship for who ever becomes president next.

    And every one thinking of the courts? TOO SLOW, to undo it, the damage is accumulative over time. Obama and his administration is relying on that FACT.

    At this point Congress needs to move as fast as possible to either impeach Obama or Try to push a new bill / law through, that rewrites what can and can’t be done with executive orders.

    • Without Doubt, the use of Executive Order is being abused and misused as much as the Constitution is being irreparable overlooked, damaged and bastardized into oblivion, along with the Rights of the People it was meant to protect!

  56. This is a little lengthy and I apologize, but I think people concerned about gunsmithing, etc. are missing a very important detail, which is that the scope of the enabling legislation is restricted to the import/export of military hardware and related items.

    I’ve read The ITAR sections defining things, as well as the munitions list (§120.1), who must register (§122.1) and so on.

    I learned in law school that you can’t just read the body of any statute or regulation; if you want to understand what it says and how it applies, you also have to follow the trail through any cited authority, especially where there is an empowering statute. Not looking at cites is a common mistake by lazy lawyers who don’t read everything, and laypersons who don’t understand how these things are put together and don’t realize that one of these “pursuant to” references can change the entire meaning of a document. (People who answer phones at the State Department, BATFE, etc. tend to resemble the latter group. If they were lawyers or legislative consultants they wouldn’t be answering phones.)

    So, follow the trail. Look at the munitions list, where it seems to empower the President, via SecState, to require ITAR registration for almost any gunsmith or manufacturer:

    Ҥ 121.1 General. The United States Munitions List.
    (a) The following articles, services and related technical data are designated as defense articles and defense services pursuant to §§ 38 and 47(7) of the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2778 and 2794(7)”

    That list goes on to talk about firearms, ammunition and so on, and if you stay within the four corners of the document, you get the impression that anybody doing anything has to register with ITAR.

    BUT… if you look at those two sections of the legislation (§§2278 & 2794 referenced in § 121.1 of the ITAR), you find that these sections, and all powers the President derives from them, relate specifically and are limited to import/export of “defense items” as related to military aplications. Further, there is language sprinkled around making it pretty clear that this is stuff with no “civilian equivalent.” (If those links don’t work, you can go to the website of the House of Representatives and search for them here.)

    22 USC 2778 is from Chapter 39-Arms Export Control, Subchapter III – Military Export Controls.
    (a)(1) “Presidential control of exports and imports of defense articles and services, guidance of policy, etc.; designation of United States Munitions List…”
    “That provision authorizes the President “to control the import and the export of defense articles…”

    The President is authorized “to designate those items which shall be considered as defense articles and defense services for the purposes of this section and to promulgate regulations for the import and export of such articles and services. The items so designated shall constitute the United States Munitions List.

    The purpose of the section is right in the title of 22 USC 2778: “Control of arms exports and imports.”

    Now look at Section (b) – Registration and licensing requirements for manufacturers, exporters, or importers of designated defense articles and defense services.

    This says “As prescribed in regulations issued under this section, every person … who engages in the business of manufacturing, exporting, or importing any defense articles or defense services designated by the President under subsection (a)(1) shall register…”

    Okay, follow that? What that means is that all the language about firearms, gunsmithing and manufacturing everybody is so worked up about is strictly and specifically limited to matters of the import and export of military weaponry in the section (a)(1), the power of the President “to designate” is “for the purposes of this section” which is “to promulgate regulations for … import and export…”

    The registration requirement refers directly back to (a)(1), which limits the scope to import and export of military weaponry. The registration provision is defined by and must include that language in its scope and application.

    The upshot is that none of this applies to domestic, non-military manufacturing, much less gunsmithing. Nothing in the statute empowers the government, much less the President by Executive Order or via the State Department, to regulate domestic firearms manufacture, unless it somehow relates to the import/export of military equipment, hardware, etc. That is how you get the interpretation about not having to export directly, whether a person has an FFL, etc. But the scope and intent of the legislation is clearly intended to apply only to the international arms trade, and there is no reasonable way to interpret it in terms of regulating domestic-market (i.e., non-military) firearms manufacture. I can see an argument about suppressors, but given that there is a “domestic equivalent” for civilian suppressors, that’s pretty shaky if a manufacturer does not – or by law may not – export.

    If you don’t believe me, read it yourself:

    §§120, 121 & 122 of the IFAR

    Title 22-FOREIGN RELATIONS AND INTERCOURSE, CHAPTER 39-ARMS EXPORT CONTROL, SUBCHAPTER III-MILITARY EXPORT CONTROLS.

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