Tucson Resolution: No Private Gun Sales of Firearms That Hold Ten Rounds or More

Tucson Convention Center
On July 6th, 2016, the Tucson City Council banned the sales of any gun capable of firing 10 or more rounds without reloading, at gun shows held at the Tucson Convention Center. From tucson.com:

Any weapon capable of firing 10 or more rounds can no longer be sold at the Tucson Convention Center.

The Tucson City Council voted unanimously Wednesday night to add more restrictions on private gun sales at the city-owned venue.

The resolution was put forward by Ward 3 Council Member Karen Uhlich and the Vice Mayor Kozachick From a pdf of the resolution:

We request the following item be agendized at the July 6th Study Session: The City of Tucson has a policy by which any group using the Tucson Convention Center for the sale of firearms must ensure that every person purchasing a weapon undergoes a background check. We are proudly the only city in the State of Arizona with such a protection.

For the July 6th study session, please set aside 20 minutes for Mayor and Council to give direction to staff to expand that policy to include the prohibition of the sale of any weapon, .22 gauge or larger, that is capable of firing 10 or more rounds without reloading, and the sale of any clip or magazine that is capable of holding 10 or more rounds of ammunition.

Not one member of the six person Tucson City Council spotted the gross error. A .22 gauge would be a weapon with a bore of 2.75 inches. Such weapons are not sold at gun shows. Assuming they meant .22 caliber, the resolution would have banned the sale of nearly all .22 rimfire rifles that have been made in the United States for the last 130 years.

The City of Tucson’s attorney says there’s precedent backing-up the city’s restriction of firearms sales on its property. Without citing actual court cases, he refers to Resolution 22007 adopted in February of 2013.

In that resolution, the City banned all firearms sales in the Tucson Convention Center unless the seller conducted a federal background check. No mechanism exists for the actual performance of such background checks by individuals who are not firearm dealers.

Since the resolution in 2013, there ahem been no gun shows in the Tucson Convention Center.

In Arizona, all firearms regulations are the sole jurisdiction of the state. In 2016, the Arizona legislature passed legislation to punish scofflaw local and city governments who violate state firearms law. When the law goes into effect August 6th of 2016, it allows for penalties for up to $50,000 a day. That would seem to be a significant amount for a cash-strapped city such as Tucson.

From Section 13-3108 Arizona Revised Statutes:

3.  The regulation of commercial land and structures, including a business relating to firearms or ammunition or their components or a commercial shooting range in the same manner as other commercial businesses. Notwithstanding any other law, this paragraph does not:
(a)  Authorize a political subdivision to regulate the sale or transfer of firearms on property it owns, leases, operates or controls in a manner that is different than or inconsistent with state law.  For the purposes of this subdivision, a use permit or other contract that provides for the use of property owned, leased, operated or controlled by a political subdivision shall not be considered a sale, conveyance or disposition of property.

A year ago, Roadrunner Gunshows was considering such a suit. From kvoa.com:

Lori McMann of Roadrunner Gun Shows said it is not that simple. People without a federal firearms license do not even have access to the instant background check system. She estimated about 70 percent of her sellers do not have the license.

Ken Rineer, the President of Gun Owners of Arizona, said the city policy is an obvious violation of state law . . .

 McMann said she is not making us much money at other venues. She said she is looking at her options in court.

Uhlich will not be running for election again. Three years ago, a critic noted that she is driven by ideology, not logic. From insidetucsonbusiness.com:

Karin also stated that Tucson will not negotiate “from its knees.” What Tucson does she live in? I see a city that she has helped escort into squalor. CNN money ranks us in the Top 5 “worst cities to operate a business.” Cops and fire are at historic low staffing levels and response times are horrendous. The city pension in in the toilet. The Tucson Convention Center is falling into a pit. Oh, but Sun Tran and related public transit are at all-time highs. Look in the mirror Tucson, you are on your knees right now.

From Tucson.com:

It’s too bad he didn’t paint the city’s financial picture in darker strokes. Years of dubious political decisions combined with an economic meltdown plus financial hits from the state have left us in a dire situation. New scale houses at the dump aren’t going to fix it.
The projected budget deficit for the fiscal year beginning July 1 is $25.6 million, but without dramatic action that will rise steadily to around $57 million per year by 2020. Increasing pension costs are one part of the problem, but only a part.
Tucson is a poorly run city that’s racking up debt. Its City Council clearly values passing political resolutions over taking care of the City’s financial well being. Gun control. Poor governance. Democratic Party dominance. Connect the dots.
©2016 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

comments

  1. avatar BlinkyPeteReturns says:

    Well, no more gun shows there I guess.

    Seriously, I want just one of those people to look at me with a straight face and explain how this dumb rule is going to solve any problem whatsoever right now.

    1. avatar C.S. says:

      Oh, come on. Let’s not deny them their sense of accomplishment. Give them their “I did my best” reward.

      1. avatar beefeater says:

        I did my best… I did my best…
        http://youtu.be/TKIFa7aBt0U

    2. avatar barnbwt says:

      Well, it probably prevented a lot of shoulder dislocations; .22ga will put the hurt on both ends of the muzzle, I’d reckon. Totally reckless to have more than ten rounds of that kind of crazy on tap.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        A 1 ga. shotgun would shoot a round lead ball that weighs 1 pound.
        (Example, a 12 ga. shotgun bore is the diameter of 1 round lead ball that weights 1/12th of 1 pound)
        .22 ga. would be a 4.55 round lead ball.
        So………………………no selling cannons at Tuscon gun shows – not anymore anyway.
        Alright, we’re done here – job well done – everyone gets a gold star and a raise.

    3. avatar Greg says:

      Another group of sanctimonious liberals who want to show that they care. And, as usual they act on emotion rather than logic or facts. You have to feel for the good, patriotic people who live in this little Marxist outpost.

  2. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    Glad I don’t live in Tucson.
    Now they the people should have a nice case of going against the States preemption laws. If Arizona has any??
    Here in Florida. Those 6 council members would be paying all fines and court costs out of their own pockets. Just for starters. Have them speak to the City of West Palm Beach’s council. If they want to rewrite laws locally.

    1. avatar Vhyrus says:

      Not only do we have state preemption but it has financial penalties which go into effect next month. I see fun court cases ahead.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        Stupid question:

        If Az has preemption laws with fiscal penalties, did no one explain this to the council before they voted on it?

        I’m just curious what they said when they were told…

        1. The City’s Attorney said that the State cannot regulate what conditions the City puts into contracts for the use of the City’s property. I do not think this will hold up. The City also held that there was no fiscal impact…at this time…. The preemption law with penalties goes into effect in August. Lots of wishful thinking going on.

      2. avatar neiowa says:

        I’d bet the morons at the CIty think by quickly jamming thru their silly ordinance they can preempt/grandfather it in.

      3. avatar Desert Ranger says:

        State legislatures need to make any councilman who passes such ordinances personally liable for the financial costs of any civil liability. That is the only way to stop these unconstitutional actions short of taking up arms.

        1. avatar Henry says:

          Well, gotta walk before we can run. The penalties that will take effect in about three weeks are disastrous enough that Kozachik may fear lynching by his fellow Tucson council members. Listen from 12:30:

          http://www.1041kqth.com/shows/the-james-t-harris-show/harris-podcast/arizona-citizens-defense-league-cofounder-charles-heller-interview

  3. avatar mark_anthony_78 says:

    Soo… just buy the guns in the parking lot then.

  4. avatar Chip Bennett says:

    No Henry Repeating Rifle for you! Only firearms that predate the Civil War are allowed.

    1. avatar ANgryaz says:

      Pre civil war you could have cannons with explosive rounds as well as.mortars me thinks history not their forte

      1. avatar DaProf says:

        Works for me…

  5. avatar Bob316 says:

    Hmm, kind of sounds like after 8/6/2016, there will be a lot of lawyers looking to play the legal lottery at the expense of the city of Tucson. Given the usual pro-gun populace in Arizona, I bet a lot of lawyers will be buying new BMWs next year.

  6. avatar ColdNorth says:

    Maybe they want to encourage sales of AR-15s in .204 Ruger.

    1. avatar NineShooter says:

      Here I was thinking they were rabid fans of the .17 HMR.
      I forgot all about the .204. Good catch!

  7. avatar Sian says:

    By the letter of the law, this only applies to autoloading cannon with a bore larger than 2.75 inches and a clipazine larger than 10 rounds and I don’t know of any in existence that qualify for this.

    Can’t buy a magazine larger than 10 rounds, but nothing saying it can’t be a freebie addon to any purchase, say, of a $20 USB thumb drive with an e-copy of the Bill of Rights on it.

    So carry on.

    1. avatar Kroglikepie says:

      If we can’t find or think of a current weapon that fits that bill, then I think it is time to design one… besides, it would *only* be a magazine-fed 70mm canon. The tricky part is concealing it…

    2. Oh, you can’t sell the Glock 17? Well I’ll take the Glock 26 then.

    3. avatar PK says:

      Quite a number of QF cannons with drum magazines have capacity over 10 rounds and bores well above 2.75″.

    4. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Particularly in light of that, I think I would simply ignore their prohibition and see what they’d like to do about it. Suppose any of them has ever been to a gun show?

  8. avatar Cloudbuster says:

    People dumb enough to not even know how to describe the things they’re banning do not deserve our obedience or our respect.

    “But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

  9. avatar DickDanger says:

    Nothing .22 caliber or larger? So I could buy as many .17 HMRs as my heart desired?

    1. avatar JJVP says:

      That’s not what the resolution said. It did not say .22 caliber or larger. It said .22 GAUGE or larger.

  10. avatar ButtHurtz says:

    How can we get the useful idiots , BLM, to target these politicians and any LEO that try to enforce those edicts.

    1. avatar Vitsaus says:

      Convince them that gun control is racist.

      1. avatar Kyle says:

        Sadly, the liberals have convinced everyone that only white christians CAN be racist.

  11. avatar Joe R. says:

    Stupid come in lollipops all of a sudden?

  12. avatar Chuck says:

    Be aware of any city with a large university presence, even in Arizona.

  13. avatar DaveW says:

    How do you spell restraint of trade an commerce?

  14. avatar barnbwt says:

    MP7 for the win!

  15. avatar doesky2 says:

    The SMUGness level has almost reached South Park levels.

    1. avatar Rikoshay says:

      Funny how Bill would recommended not to stir the pot he just stirred.

  16. avatar Paul Magera says:

    Do not even bother to point out the error in the new regulation, simply comply to the exact terminology passed! If they’re so uninformed let it stand and don’t correct the fools……carry on and carry!

    1. avatar Paul Stoufflet MD says:

      Absolutely. My .30 cal M1A is under the limit imposed by the Tucson City Council, which is a bore of about 7cm, or 2.76 inches. 0.30 is less than 2.76. So what is the problem, officer?
      Stupid people passing stupid laws. F*&k them.

  17. avatar Dan says:

    “Any weapon capable of firing 10 or less rounds can no longer be sold at the Tucson Convention Center.”

    There fixed the wording.

  18. avatar Noishkel says:

    Sounds like a progressive plan if I ever heard one.

    Next step will be only allow political of approved parties. The only religions functions that will be allowed will be those of approved view points. And the only music allowed will be those off approved connect.

    Because in the year 2016. The year that the infected left hand of America became gangrenous.

  19. avatar Larry says:

    Just about all off the rest of the state has been trying to sell Tucson to either Mexico or California for years.

  20. avatar Mort says:

    Whoa, pardners… Tucson resident & reader here, chiming in to soothe my fellow rankled Potty-Gees. While the article lists some valid points, concerns, and criticisms… I would like to assure everyone that Tucson gun culture is as robust and entrenched and protected as *anywhere* in our great nation. The TCC is an okie dokie place for a gun show, but it is rather large (it’s a concert arena ya know…). So, by nature of practicality and atmosphere, there have been and are plenty of gun shows available at other venues and halls. It’s quite unusual go two/three weeks in Tucson without a gun show somewhere in town, all year round (not just before Mr. Fudd’s rabbit season…)– does that happen where you live? And it has been that way for decades. Our community has ample places to buy arms and ammo, with greater ease and convenience (and choice) than almost anywhere on Planet Earth. My Cali sisters are consistently horrified at the AR accessories & ammo at Walmart, or .50cal semis at popular sports stores. Each and every day responsible Americans list dozens of arms for trade or sale (hundreds if you include the surrounding metro areas)– and the ads wouldn’t be changing all week if the culture wasn’t healthy. My point is: For all Tucson’s faults, believe me when I say, there are far worse places for POTG to live, and not too many better in America, insofar as freedom and rights are concerned. Going to the range or desert to plink in 110F heat…ya, that’s another article entirely. Cheers. Stay safe. (Like actually safe– not hysterical media fascist slavery “safe,” dig.) PS– Before you go there…could “it happen” here, the loss of our rights by complacency and neglect? Sure. But, for instance consider how many years since JLL/GG tragedy, and the noise made by her and MK nationally (and his brilliant stunt with the Evil Black Rifle…look it up for a laugh ha)- and rights have stayed intact and respected by the citizenry. There is no indication that our town will suddenly go Chicken Little, in large part because we have had freedoms for years and they just work fine. Knock on wood.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “…Tucson gun culture is as robust and entrenched and protected as *anywhere* in our great nation.”

      *Anywhere*, as in New Jersey and California?

      My condolences, Mort… 🙂

      1. avatar Heartland Patriot says:

        Let’s be accurate, here. New Jersey and California are both coastal enclave states, whose cities are chock full of leftwingers and other liberal-progressive “elites”. I consider them an aberration compared to the majority of the states.

      2. avatar Poco Loco says:

        No anywhere as in our laws make Texas and other so called “gunny” states look like Cali…..

        Constitutional Carry, the state is required to provide gun lockers anywhere a gun can’t be taken like to court….

        Take a look at our Backpage ads for guns then look anywhere else in the country….We have one of the most robust and free firearms regimes in the country if not the world…..

        Tucson will be just fine considering the TCC sucked as a show venue to start and there hasn’t been a show there in years….yet we still average a show a month all year long….plus private sales up the wazo and gun shops everywhere…..

  21. avatar Larry says:

    Belt fed 20mm even a semi would be fun

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      And good for the economy.

      Well, not *your* personal economy, the ammunition manufacturer’s economy… 🙂

    2. avatar Poco Loco says:

      check out Anzio Ironworks and their 20-.50…..or the straight 20mm…

      http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm

  22. avatar RCC says:

    Another site that reported this last week said it was over three years since there had been a gun show in the centre and called it just a useless waste of time and money

  23. avatar tjlarson2k says:

    These half-measures are so tiresome. I would actually have more respect for them if they just straight up trying to ban guns without all this pussyfooting around the end goal. Stop being cowards and go for it. Then see what happens.

    Tyranny by a thousand cuts is still tyranny.

    1. Most of them have no idea what they are doing. They really are acting out of ignorance. Our society is so wealthy that we can afford these sort of out of touch mandarins who have little contact with reality. They have lived their entire lives in fantasy kingdoms, and have convinced themselves that what they and their “in” group says is true. Rather like the monkey tribe in the Jungle Book “We all say so, so it must be true!”

    2. avatar Heartland Patriot says:

      I’m pretty sure they know they can’t just ban guns and get away with it. A heckuva lot of folks would simply ignore it, and the gun-banners don’t have the personnel to do anything effective about enforcing it…and they know that, too. And do the police really want to spend all their time and efforts on arresting people for having guns? Maybe in a few places, but I’d guess Arizona, even a liberal city in Arizona, ain’t one of those places. Unless they’re constructing gulags, they’d soon run out of space to even hold people until trial. Gun grabbers want to work through intimidation, mostly. And most of them can go pound sand, too.

  24. avatar Mikial says:

    Why is there no more stupid?

  25. avatar Mort says:

    Geoff… Now, surely you know I meant there are no places anywhere in the US with more freedoms and less restrictions than our fine town. Comparable, maybe… but if you live west, don’t be mad that you have to road trip it here to buy a piece of plastic that will send you to Pelican Bay. Or, do be, actually.

    Larry… Last Spring I saw a Ma Deuce for sale in town. Wasnt cheap, but if it thats your thing, we welcome you. 20mm, I dunno, is it in the statutes? If not, well..my guess is that it would solve the arguments about there being no such thing as “knock down power.” You’re pretty much open carrying that, though.

    1. The “residents” of Tucson are not too bad, generally. The people they vote into office…

  26. avatar Jeff Dutton says:

    …’cuz if you’re only going to kill 9 people, we’re cool with that.

  27. avatar Cam says:

    So you sell sell the gun without the magazine, without a magàzine it is not capable of being more then a single shot. To the purchaser of my single shot pistol I will sell this pen for 50 cents. With every pen sold I will give you a free magazine to whatever gun you just bought from me.

  28. avatar Heartland Patriot says:

    So, since I don’t live in Arizona, please explain to me in simple “flyover country” English what the city uses as an enforcement method. Do they have the police come and troll every gun show, demanding “papers, please”, and then arresting any violators on the spot? What I mean is, if people simply ignore what the city says, what can the city do about it?

    1. avatar Poco Loco says:

      this only covers the Convention Center….Private venues continue to hold gun shows regularly and the regs haven’t changed at all there….

      Only on city owned property…..and there hasn’t been a show there for 3 years since the last stupid reg the council made……

  29. avatar Groutboy says:

    Should all be thrown out of office….And the city….*(And we should bring back a good “Tar and Feathering…”)*

  30. avatar M says:

    Mr. H. Patriot… In Heartland Flyover English: Enforcement? In reality, there is no need for such things. Actually, you’re far more likely for a cop to say, “Psst… if you’re interested, I got one in my safe and I’ll give you a better deal, and throw in some ammo and extra mags. Here’s my number….” Over twenty years, I’ve had the pleasant opportunity to purchase nice gear from stand-up guys of the police, border patrol, and active military…and they are always as casual (yet truly diligent and responsible) as someone selling a Big Wheel at a yard sale. This is still a state where a citizen can look another citizen in the eye, shake hands, and sell/buy private property without red tape and tyranny alike (e.g., registrations, licenses, prying, security theater, et al). If you want to support your LGS or gun show vendors, even without a CCW, checks are within 10min with the dedicated DPS office in Phoenix. You can carry open or concealed here with or without a permit (i.e., Constitutional carry), or ride down the street on a bike with your loaded AR-15 and wave to police. There is a clause in our state constitution that essentially says (in flyover English), we will not recognize laws of any kind that bump elbows with the 2nd Amendment of the BOR/USC… it is mentioned above in the article (re: not recognizing the city making up its own rules contrary to state law, and fining the city for doing so…). This also means, for example, if an adminstration decided to ban/prohibit “assault rifles,” that the state and its citizens would in all likelyhood uniformly ignore it and carry on carrying on. Insofar as real enforcement goes, we do have this scary schit: There are law enforcement personnel at gun shows, presumably Californian or Feds or some collaborative effort, that do document Californians’ license plates in the parking lots. What for or why, I think we can all speculate accordingly, but I have seen this with my own eyes. There is some kind of irony there… having one state being conscious and respectful of Constitutional rights, yet bordering one of those “progressive” states that arbitrarily violates and disregards citizens’ rights… and the ensuing culture clash that inevitably results can’t be healthy. Things will only get weirder as SoCal & LA residents travel here for a variety of supplies… or so I reckon, anyway. Some kind of enforcement is bound to be seen regarding this yin-yang of freedom vs. prohibition. Stay safe.

  31. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    More pointless virtue signaling from idiots that have no clue about firearms. Why 10 rounds also? Is that a special magical number that makes guns less killy? Or was it picked because it was a nice even number and sounds good. I’ll go with the latter.

    1. It is the number that can be easily counted without taking off your shoes.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I’m pretty sure if you sell a standard capacity magazine with a sticky note on it saying to only load it with 10 rds,, that complies with the CC idiots rule.

  32. avatar dragos111 says:

    I have never understood limiting gun sales based on the number of rounds that the weapon can hold. How do these folks know how many bad guys one might have to hold off at a time? If you are facing 3 or 4 thugs and are limited to 6 rounds, you are probably in for a world of hurt.

    They should be going after the bad guys, not the good guys.

  33. avatar Cyrano says:

    Every gun fires only 1 round at a time, except that double barreled .45 curio. You pull the trigger the gun fires a round and then if its a semi auto it reloads itself by stripping a round from a mag. Without the mag its a single shot. All semis are a single shot without the mag. Dumb legislation.

  34. avatar JoelM says:

    You need to fix your article. A 22 gauge would be approximately .599 inches.

    http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.shotguns.html

    Shotgun Bore Diameters:

    10 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .775 inches.
    12 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .729 inches.
    16 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .662 inches.
    20 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .615 inches.
    28 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .550 inches.
    .410 Bore = Bore Diameter of .410 inches.

    1. avatar JoelM says:

      I’ll the one who needs correcting. I missed the decimal point.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Your reward will be a .9mm. Watch your mail.

  35. avatar Alex says:

    Good thing we have all these other venues to have guns shows at. Honestly, the TCC is a shithole anyway….

  36. avatar James69 says:

    Better yet. The gunshow should find another venue. Kick em in the wallet.

  37. avatar Marko from Cochise says:

    As a proud resident of Arizona since 1997, I am ashamed to acknowledge the City Council of Tucson as a real thing. For those readers who are not from Arizona, please understand that Tucson does NOT reflect the thinking of all Arizonans.

  38. avatar Yellow Devil says:

    Most of the gunshows in the area have been held in the Fairgrounds just outside the city or in several different hotels all around the city.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I’ll bet they don’t allow the sale of tanks heavier than 20 tons.

  39. avatar Rem870 says:

    That is stupid… I hope that they will change this soon. Firearms that hold ten rounds are not more dangerous than others.

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