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University of Alabama sophomore Grayson Everett has penned a, well, sophomoric piece for al.com putting forth the premise that designated gun-free zones save lives. He claims statistics prove his point…without actually citing any. It’s just common sense! The fact is, though, that as gun ownership and the number of concealed carry permits have risen, states have consistently reduced the legal penalties for carrying in posted no-go zones.

Texas dropped the consequences for toting against signage from a Class A misdemeanor to a Class C. Basically a speeding ticket. A bill on Missouri governor Jay Nixon’s desk would remove all penalties for carrying past a ‘no guns allowed’ sign. Of course being caught in a Post Office remains a felony. But with penalties being trimmed and concealed always meaning concealed, do you carry even in “gun-free” zones?

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138 Responses to Blue Force Gear Question of the Day: Do You Carry in ‘Gun-Free’ Zones?

  1. In force-of-law gun-free zones, no.

    In others, it depends. I generally dislike supporting people who put their idiot views on display for all to see, so I generally don’t/won’t shop in places like that. However, sometimes circumstances require it, and as long as the law isn’t involved, I feel no need to conform to their warped views during a short visit to their retail establishment.

    • +1

      Yesterday I turned around and left a Buffalo Wild Wings because they had a prominent sign which may have legally binding.

      The local mall has no gun language hidden away on poorly placed signs that are not legally binding. I ignore those. When I lived in Virginia I only paid attention to signs in locations that were no gun by statute.

      • With an invalid sign, is it really a GFZ?

        At a home, or other private location, I will honor all requests not to carry. In a place of public accommodation, I will honor all legal requests not to carry (except at work, where the sign isn’t legal, but I do like generating income).

        That means that a location with an invalid sign, such as Whole Foods, gets carry, while a location with a valid sign, such as Sprouts, with a disarmed.

        Many will discourage patronizing a place that doesn’t allow carry, something I sympathize with. While I do adjust my usual shopping decisions, I feel no issue with going to Sprouts on my way home from work – since I wouldn’t be armed anyway.

        • Absolutely I do carry everywhere regardless of what’s posted. I don’t lose my right to free speech when I go out, but I guess I just did blow my 5th with this self-incriminated post. Oops.

        • As a matter of fact you do lose your right to free speech on private property. If the property owner doesn’t like what you have to say he can give you the boot. Failure to leave gets you arresting for trespassing.

        • –tdiinva–

          I would disagree that is losing your “rights to free speech” you have the right to speak your mind, regardless of your right to legally be in a particular spot. What you’ve never had is a right to any particular audience.

          As to the topic – I cannot carry at work, (courthouse). Otherwise I don’t sweat the signs. (MN they are not binding, other then if you’re asked to leave you can be trespassed out).

        • Being able to and being allowed to are two different things. I agree you can always physically carry anywhere you want.

          But, just like private property owners can preemptivly prohibit soliciting or protests on their property, they can prohibit firearms – unless the law demands otherwise (such as the MN invalidation of no-guns or TX mandating specific signage).

          Just as I make efforts to respect legal signage regarding speech, I try to respect legal signage regarding firearms. If someone without legal signage asks me to leave, they have done their part and it is incumbent on me to do mine.

        • I would say I almost get pleasure in carrying completely legally in locations which have invalid signage…

        • tdiinva – you exaggerate. If the place is open to other than family (by invitation) it is public and the owners opinion on the 2nd is irrelevant. He can NOT deprive you of your constitutional rights. He can ask you to leave and perhaps have the popo arrest you for trespass if you do not agree. Take your God given natural rights? Hardly.

        • You have “the right” to ignore the law which is not the same as exercising a Constitutional right. If you had the right to carry on private property you couldn’t be asked to leave

    • This is my exact feelings on the matter. I don’t want to go to jail for carrying in a legally biding no carry area, but I really have no problem being told not to return to a place that has archaic policies against carry. Generally, there are other places that I can go, it will just require me to drive further, or pay more. But in general, I try to avoid going to places that prohibit carry in the first place.

        • Raping a woman in a coma is still wrong even if she doesn’t know you did it. Violating property rights without the property owner knowing about is still a violation.

        • That’s a pretty twisted analogy. How do you even compare two things so fundamentally different?

          In one case you are doing nothing overt that harms anyone. but simply ensuring you can effectively respond to a situation where you or other innocent people may be harmed, and in your example, you are referring to a situation wherein the perpetrator is actively and willingly harming someone.

          Frankly, the situation you use is an example of when an armed citizen could intervene to protect a person who is in no condition to protect themselves.

          Oh . wait . . I get it. You are a Liberal and so you are bound by the twisted and convoluted thought processes that your masters encourage you to use.

          I’m sorry . . I hope someday you wake up from the coma you are in.

        • For me, it isn’t about them knowing or not. It is about me financially supporting businesses who are willing to violate the constitutional rights of their customers.

      • That is a twisted analogy. There is no Constitutional right to rape a woman in a coma. There is one that says the RTKABA shall not be infringed. It doesn’t make exceptions for so called Gun Free Zones.

    • I consider private property to be sacrosanct. If a property owner has, for whatever reason, decided to ban firearms, bringing my firearm onto that property is a violation of the owner’s rights. That being said, I’m not compelled to buy things from anyone,

      • I consider human life to be sacrosanct. That means our right to life is not a function of where we are standing nor who claims “ownership” of the ground upon which we are standing.

      • What about race and gender while your at it. If you are open to the public, then what are your property rights?

    • Yes , I carry everywhere I go , I even carry into the court house here I politely hand the officer at the metal detector my rig to keep safely for me while I do my business . Signs don’t prevent me from protecting myself or those who are with me . I honor these businesses wishes by concealing my hand gun from them and their customers .

  2. I don’t have my ccp yet so I don’t have much choice, but only place I even go other than post office that is gun free is the pediatricians office, but it’s still at least in the car locked away

    • Just cancel your order.

      Mine came with an unadvertised disclaimer saying that he had ‘no specific duty to protect’. I thought that was a pretty big defect and returned him for a refund (less 15% restocking fee, dammit).

  3. Here in Wisconsin we have signage laws, which means you can loos your right to carry or worst. So, no I do not. I either do not visit places that have such signs or respect their 5th Amendment rights, even if they do not respect my 2nd Amendment rights.

    • The signage must conform to specific requirements to be binding. Anybody who posts a legally binding sign is civilly liable for your protection.

        • FYI, a sign must be 11″ square and be placed in two conspicuous places places to be legally binding.

      • I was wondering about that since moving up from a state that does not have signage laws, if the person posting knows they can be held civilly with monetary judgements, responsible for my safety. To the signs, I understand that they must be in an obvious to those entering.

        • And that is why you don’t a lot of official signage in the State.

      • Really? That is awesome. We need that here in Texas. Those 30.06/30.07 signs would disappear. Only the most hardcore anti’s would keep the signs up once business became legally liable.

  4. I’m more concerned with the state of the public university system in Alabama given that kid’s editorial. But then, he is a “wise fool.”

  5. Other than federal buildings GFZ signs have no force of law in Michigan, so I carry in GFZs damn near daily. Concealed means concealed.

    • Unless it’s on the no concealed carry list. Unless you have permit and it’s on the open carry list.

      I love it when our state can’t even figure out a list…

      • True, there is the ”entertainment venue seating more than 5000”, and the always fun 51% alcohol sales businesses.

        Funny how we’re supposed to know the income of a restaurant or how many seats are in a movie theater.

  6. In Oklahoma it is not against the law carry into a business with a sign, you just have to leave if asked to or be charged with trespassing. I try not to give my business to anyone posting a sign, but at times I follow my wife into one since she is oblivious to the whole issue. I carry concealed so what they don’t know won’t bother them.

  7. I don’t carry in places that could really get me in trouble if caught such as post office, bank, schools, gubment buildings, my workplace and such. Everywhere else I carry concealed.

  8. I do not carry in places where it is illegal.

    I always carried in college and did not care one bit about their silly ignorant policy. I had a not so bright gun person friend gun person who actually asked the campus “chief of police” (tongue in cheek) if he could carry. Haha, bad idea.

  9. Rich kid jockeying for relevance as an up-and-coming democratic voice in Alabama. (see https://www.linkedin.com/in/graysoneverett). Here’s a tip, young Grayson: nobody’s going to believe you’re a “man of the people” when you’re flashing a gold rolex in your school newspaper before you’re old enough to buy a beer.

  10. Author Grayson Everett seems to be a rich kid jockeying for relevance as an up-and-coming democratic voice in Alabama. (see https://www.linkedin.com/in/graysoneverett).

    Here’s a tip, young Grayson: nobody’s going to believe you’re a “man of the people” if (a) you’re flashing a gold Rolex in your school newspaper before you’re old enough to buy a beer or (http://media.al.com/opinion/photo/grayson-everettjpg-155c9be3442626bc.jpg) (b) your twitter handle references your affinity for Versace luxury goods (https://twitter.com/versacesocks)

  11. No. Unless I felt like my safety was compromised, it’s not worth the hassle.

    I am very mindful every time I visit our post office box.

    If a business is so concerned about whether its patron have legally carried firearms, it’s not a place I wish to do business with.

    • An entertaining screen name. I wonder what the reference could be……? 8>)

  12. It depends.
    If they have the posted No Berettas Allowed sign then I carry my Glock.
    If they have the posted No Revolvers Allowed then I carry my 1911. I like to abide by their rules.

  13. Surprisingly here in the Seattle area, there are few “No Guns Allowed” signs. The ones I can think of are all at movie theaters. I don’t ignore them, but I do chuckle as I walk past, legally, with a gun under my shirt.
    The only places I can think of that it’s against state law to carry are bars, and I don’t go to them much, but when I do, I make sure I’m extra careful not to print or fidget.
    As for post offices, I have at least 15 internet-capable devices and FedEx and UPS within walking distance, why would I ever want to go to a post office?

  14. Yes
    Because a 22 caliber 21a in my pocket is better than my full size 45 or my full size 9mm in my safe.

  15. Yes I do, even if it’s posted. In Ohio, it’s a Class-4 Misdemeanor, basically criminal trespassing, if the other party would even want to file a complaint. Most just ask you to leave the property.
    Government buildings and property – Never.

  16. There are rules and there are laws. Since I want to be able to refer to myself as a law abiding citizen, I do not carry anywhere it is against the law-ever. As for rules, I never look for signs so I can honestly say that I did not see the sign. If it is against the rules, I ignore those rules. If someone figures out I am carrying and asks me to leave, I would do so politely, and yet hope to have an educational discussion with them later. Rules regarding gun free zones only serve to comfort the delusional Utopians into a false sense of security while putting everyone at risk. I’m not putting myself in a nearly defenseless posture over a rule.

  17. Yes but complete illegal (only arround 50k may issue permits on complete 72 million country) in germany so conclead only and permitless 🙂

    • If caught carrying in Germany, what’s a typical prison sentence, and how bad are the prisons?

  18. Of course. We need to get over the ‘law abiding citizen’ stigma if we are ever going to be taken seriously.

  19. All day every day. Where I live, they also require a permit to carry but I don’t have one and it’s a felony to walk into a place that sells alcohol while carrying a gun without a permit. So yeah, I’ve probably got a few thousand felonies under my belt.

  20. As the Executive Director of a large, regional gun rights organization, my official answer is “no”.

    I will say that I have zero reservation about carrying in a posted “prohibited area” on private property if the required signage is defective in the smallest way.

    In one instance, I even mentioned it as part of a debate in front of school kids (in a church) that I was carrying because the sign was defective (someone got a little carried away with the scissors and cut the bottom border off the required sign at one of the entrances).

    That got three pages of front-page attention from the regional newspaper and upset a lot of gun-haters (and some pro-gunners).

    I will tell our members I don’t want to have to attend a members’ funeral of a Guns Save Life member because they got killed in a place like a rest area because they left their gun in the glove box.

    A wife of one of our members was killed a couple of years ago in a rest area in northern Illinois that was posted.

    John

  21. Around me the signs carry no force of law and I routinely ignore them. If they ask me to leave, I will leave to avoid a trespass charge, but that comes down to not getting caught and I haven’t been caught.

    The only exception to that is the signs at state buildings that use armed security and metal detectors, those GFZ’s carry the force of law and due to to the use of magnetometers and X-Ray systems for anything you’re carrying obviously I don’t carry in them when I have to be there because I can’t.

    (I’m that lucky guy that gets jury duty all the time. I’d like to strangle my county clerk, I think he has my name in a Rolodex and notes the exact date I can come back up for jury duty and not refuse it.)

  22. Schools are the big one…..any parent concealed carrying and has had to pick up their child at school?

    • I used to work in a middle school and I’m a college student. I have no idea how many felonies I’ve violated.

    • If my children are involved, I’m always carrying, even at their school. No wand/detector? Must not be that worried about me then . . .

  23. If it’s an illegal zone, only if there is no weapon screening. Private property I disregard the sign.

  24. Yes. By virtue of holding a Mississippi enhanced carry permit, virtually the only places I’m legally prohibited from carry would be active courtrooms, sheriff offices, police precincts, jails/prisons, and federal installations…and I have no business in any of them.

    But, if I did, I’d probably carry anyway.

    As for the wishes of the property owner, as far as I’m concerned, until they provide bodyguards to every person on the property they do not have the right to prohibit me from allowing for my own well-being any more than they can bar an extremely allergic person from bringing an epi-pen. As it happens, I’m extremely allergic to bodily harm. And I’m not subjugating my right to self preservation or my business options to some douchebag’s political opinion.

  25. I haven’t seen many “no guns” signs on private property in MA, and even most government buildings are not “gun free.” Courthouses are posted and screened with metal detectors, but they usually provide gun lockers for licensed carriers to stow their gear until their business is done. Post office no-go areas are controlled by Federal postal regulations, so I tend to stay away from them completely. There are easier ways to post my letters and packages. Polling places are “gun free,” so I vote by absentee ballot.

    So, no, I don’t carry in “gun free” zones, because I don’t go there.

  26. I carried at least weekly in the Downtown Austin (6th st) Whole Foods for 3 or 4 years (before moving from TX). About 2 years before I moved, I happened to notice the non 3006 compliant sign on the front doors prohibiting guns. I did not change my behavior. I conceal well so I felt pretty comfortable walking right past the off duty cop they hire as a security guard.

    This store is the world headquarters of Whole Foods, its founder John Mackey works in the building can be seen walking thru the store or eating at one of the restaurant bars. He claims to be a libertarian, yet the sign on his front door belies this.

  27. It’s circumstances like this (from UCLA where people were being searched (I can’t seem to upload the photo)) where I get nervous. I would hate to get bagged without putting my pistol to good use. If I needed it and I got “caught”, at least I’m still alive.

  28. I was just considering this the other day, sipping moonshine and listening to the dolcet tones of a banjo, my cousin/wife sitting next to me with that dead eyed idiot stare that I first fell in love with when she was seven. I realized that no Place is safer than the bomb shelter I built out of an old outhouse. I knew then that, without having a gun on me at each and every preschool and toys r us, I was essentially not even really a man. For what makes a man if not going to Walmart and paying a few hundred dollars so that he can pretend to be John McLaine whenever he goes to buy diapers for his invalid cousin/wife.

        • You mean I’m going to have to pick one screen name? Can I still talk about antique shows and the dudes not busted illegally carrying in California?

  29. For the most part, I avoid places that do not like my kind, whether they do not like me for my Native-American blood, my past career in law enforcement, or the fact I carry a gun for self-defense. If I have no choice, and if their signage is improper, I will go armed. If all they can do is tell me to leave, what do I care?

  30. I live in New Jersey. The entire state is a gun free zone. If you get caught you are looking at 10 years in states prison with a mandatory minimum of 3 1/2 years right off the bat ( add 18 months for hollow points). If you hold a professional licence you can kiss it goodbye and your livelihood. One has to really ask themselves what are they willing to accept? Potential victim via the state or criminal. But we stand and fight and will never give up.

  31. I tried to edit the previous post but I don’t think I did it in time.

    Out of a population of 8.9 million there are less than 2,000 CCW permits in the state.

    • essentially, the constitution dosn’t apply from DC to MD to Jersey to NYC to Taxachussetts….the constitution is still recognized partly in PA, maine, Vermont, and Virginia.

      In my youth in the 80s I used to carry in my car throughout the mid-atlantic and new england. then i became aware of the penalties for an otherwise law-abiding citizen caught the a loaded gun in their vehicle and decided to GTFO. Of course, the murder rate in Newark and Baltimore and PG County MD are all 3rd-world high, so thise gun bans clearly don’t stop thugs from shooting people, they just stop,citizens from defending themselves.

  32. I don’t notice any GFZ signs period. Only if I have to pass through security do I leave the gun in my safe in the car. I also don’t contract my rights away by asking for special magical permits bestowed by government for payment of a tax. Bearing arms is either a protected from government infringement right, or its a privilege, you decide which one by your actions.

  33. I carry everywhere I am not actually breaking the law and subject to criminal penalties for doing so, and I will continue to do so. Since I refuse to patronize certain businesses that are anti-Second Amendment such a Starbucks and Target, they aren’t really an issue anyway.

    • f’n Target. seems they allowed concealed weapons in their bathrooms now. and no, i never carry in a gfz. i also never exceed the speed limit, lie about my pen** size, brag about my golf game…….

      • where i live, tar-zheh doesn’t have any signs. if they put them up, then i habe a decision to make.

      • In my area, it seems that nearly every national chain that proclaims a GFZ policy does not have a gun buster sign on the doors. An obscure sign inside a business doesn’t count.
        I wonder if Waffle House has noticed that every time an article is published mentioning their GFZ corporate policy is shortly followed by an armed robbery?

    • Starbucks, isn’t that where sociology and wymyn’s studies major go to work after graduation? Nothng is better than spending $100K on a degree to be a barrista….

    • Except neither Target nor Starbucks actually prohibit guns. They said that they “preferred” that you don’t bring your guns but never said you couldn’t. Their policy is aimed at open carry which may upset some customers. These concerned customers aren’t upset by guns They do not see.

  34. I disarm to walk in the post office or my child’s elementary school. I’m not willing to risk a felony.

    I disregard all other gun free zones, as I’m sure criminals do every day. Concealed means concealed.

  35. The local gun shows are “gun free zones”. The signs don’t carry the force if law in my area so I ignore them.

    I can understand a requirement to keep your firearm holstered or cased (unless self defence is necessary) while at the show but prohibiting carry at a gun show seems hypocritical.

    Same thing goes for clubs.

  36. In places like a bar & grill (no alcohol consumption ever while carrying) or theaters, hell yes I do. In school zones or any gov’t (Federal or local) building, no.

  37. Here in TX, I always carry concealed, but then I don’t frequent the places that are illegal or have appropriate signage posted. The state law is very specific about the exact signage required and I will carry wherever the signage is incorrect. TX now has a law that permits one to go to the state AG if you find a sign posted on a place that is not allowed (by the preemption statute) to ban carrying, such as a city park, and the AG will prosecute if they don’t remove the sign. Since we passed that law last year, many illegal signs in places like city parks, libraries, and the county tax assessor’s offices, have taken down the signs rather than face the $10K per day fine that the AG could impose for leaving them up after they have been notified. We have 2 different signs, one to ban open carry and one for concealed carry. Places that sell alcohol have been putting up the signs banning open carry because of hassles with the state alcohol board, and I still carry concealed in those places (since they only ban open carry), but if I see a place that bans BOTH open and concealed carry, I always defang myself long enough to go in and tell the manager that I am not shopping there anymore because of their sign/policy, and that I will tell all my friends to avoid the place too, as it is more dangerous with those signs up. I also go on their websites and E-mail the VP of advertising with the same information. The reaction to hearing that they may have made their premises MORE dangerous by making them GFZs is always interesting! So far, three places where I have made this argument have actually removed their signs within a few weeks, so maybe the argument works (I am always polite!). So far, the only places that have actually inconvenienced me, because I used to like shopping there, are Sprouts and Half-Priced Books. I also refuse to go into any federal bldg., including the USPO, VA Hospitals, SSA Offices etc. unless absolutely necessary, in which case, I don’t carry there. I have been toying with the idea of going into Whole Foods while open carrying, because their signage only bans concealed carry, but it seems sophomoric somehow, so I probably won’t. I have been in there (carrying concealed) a couple of times before I actually noticed their sign, though.

  38. Yes.
    I carry concealed. As we all know concealed means concealed. No printing with my rig and a full sized 1911, Or if I wish to be really discrete I might carry my Sig P938.
    I will go most places I need to. But not on school grounds as I have no reason to be on them. Ever. No kidz.
    My local P.O. you betcha I do. Maybe the local Social Security building some day. Here signs on a local business carry no weight of law to speak of. If my business isn’t wanted by a posted place. I go elsewhere to spend my hard earned cash. Not an issue with me otherwise.

    • I did at the IRS building once. That kinda freaked me out at first, but didn’t have any problems. Our DMV only disallows open carry, so no problems there.

  39. The only place I go that I’m technically not allowed to is my job. Doesn’t stop me. Post office hasn’t stopped me on the rare occasion Ive had to go there. If there is no metal detector or permanent security in place searching, I’m armed. In this state, those are the only places that are off limits.

  40. i live in California, the entire state is more or less a ‘gun free zone’. Some LEO’s interpret a Gun Free School Zone as anywhere within a thousand feet of a school.

    That makes it unavoidable.

  41. Here’s what you do if you are on the fence about it. Find out how many people have been actually prosecuted for carrying a weapon in a gun free zone. How many of those people were properly concealing? My guess is none because, ya know, concealed means concealed. Now weigh the odds of needing your firearm at some point in your life. I for one have been threatened at gun point twice in my younger years. I use that as my justification to carry everywhere. If I need to carry in a “kill zone” I go smaller and appendix for that extra concealment protection. F@$% liberal society.

  42. Yes I do, but I’m also law enforcement. I would prefer if there were more of my fellow armed citizens (not civilians, citizens because cops are civilians as well) around me but I’m not encouraging anyone to break the law 😉 [he said as he whistled and walked away]

    • “…not civilians, citizens because cops are civilians as well…”

      THANK YOU!!! I cringe when I hear police incorrectly not referred to as “civilians”.

  43. Texas is a “gun nut” state. Maybe I live in a different section, have yet to see any “open carry” or suspicious budges. Believe me, I get out at the corner store I look around and listen. My pistol is in the vehicle, otherwise I take my chances like anybody else. My only constant companion is my folding knife 2 1/2 blade. I do not talk on the phone much. I assume I am a coward, if it comes to it, I hope I prove myself wrong, firearm or not.

  44. With the exception of locations with serious penalties (e.g., felony places like post office, school, etc.), I don’t care what a sign says.

    They can ask me to leave, at which point I’ll leave. That is all my state’s laws require of me, even in another person’s house or private property.

    It hasn’t happened yet, but if I ever get thrown out of someone’s house, I fully plan on throwing them off my property unless they’re lawfully carrying after receiving some safety training. It’ll be great.

  45. Me carry a gun? Never. I must have clicked the wrong link. I was looking for the truth about Nuns.

    • Now there is where I draw the line . I drive through Maryland , DC or Jersey . I lock my firearm in a lock box , attached with a locked cable , to the frame ( seat mount ) of my truck , magazine out of grip and no round chambered .
      I also will drive 300 miles extra just to avoid this ridiculous routine and I avoid spending money in those states only for absolute necessities , gas and water .

  46. Here’s my non-response response.
    GFZ’s is like asking do I want to avoid being a potential dead victim or do I want to avoid being a potential convicted criminal? Not a great choice.
    But the lesser of two evils is having the wife visiting me at jail and not having her visit my remains at the cemetery.

  47. I am a lier
    I am lying now
    Since my wife took her Walther PPK/s back,
    I carry my Bersa Thunder cc everywhere, even at my workplace where it is prohibited
    I wear scrubs at work, so I carry in my laptop case while there and keep the laptop with me at all times
    In the theater or symphony I ankle carry
    Everywhere else, even picking up the kids or at Starbucks I carry appendix in a sticky holster

  48. There’s a mall I know that has NO FIREARMS signs prominently displayed at the front entrance. I use one of the lesser prominent entrances that have no markings whatsoever.

  49. So, here is an interesting one for TTAG and it’s audience–

    Supposed, for a moment, you work for an organization with a focus on airport security. Contentious as it may be, your job is to ensure the safety of the traveling public by not allowing things that can poke holes in people and aircraft into an airport. While you have a number of tools to try and do so, you yourself are required to work unarmed, relying on a local police presence that may or may not be on site to stop a more immediate threat.

    So far my profession has only suffered two major incidents- One fatal and one attempt via melee weapon -but you can easily see that it is only a matter of time before a protagonist from some other part of the world decides that the line waiting to get to the airplane is a better target than the aircraft itself. Since you take your job seriously, you would like to be prepared for any such occurrence.

    The question now becomes: Would you carry in this gun-free zone? Would you, setting aside the inevitable vitriol that usually stems from the merest mention of this particular job on TTAG and its audience in particular. Would you carry, bearing in mind the substantial penalties you may face for having done so? Likewise, keeping in mind this is not a ‘guns for me and not for thee’ moment. If you were this completely fictional employee, you realize that it is probably for the best that your workforce remain unarmed as policy for any number of reasons. The answer to this question is purely an individual decision you will be making.

  50. If you are talking TSA, or any airport security force, I would rather do away with them all together, along with their rules and unconstitutional no-fly lists, and let the traveling public carry. The problem would take care of itself. If obviously incompetent Air Marshals and Flight Deck Officers can carry on planes, why not John Q. Public?

    Sorry if you work for TSA, but I travel by air a lot and my opinion is their whole operation is a joke and while there are few good people there, by and large I find their “officers” to be a joke. I don’t know why any self-respecting person would work for them. I would never want them armed if I wasn’t. I’m more worried about them than the terrorists.

    • So now everybody carries on an aircraft. Your contention is that a terrorist will pop his head up and get shot… Which is a great idea in theory except for few very important facts:

      1. Shooting up an aircraft in a no hold barred gunfight favors the terrorist in any scenario you can name.
      2. A terrorist org with even modest resources can stack the deck on any one flight if free carry is on the table.
      3. Your gun only matters to a suicide bomber if he decides to give his “why I became a villain” speech before blowing himself up.

      There’s a few others, but those are the majors as to why it isn’t as cut and dry as you make it. It’s the answer that everybody gives when they don’t want to think about the hard questions. Universal carry works on the ground because you’re not at thirty thousand feet surrounded by critical electronics, fuel and a thin fuselage while the other 200 people hope you’re a really good shot and the bad guy is incompetent as hell.

      But I appreciate you being polite about it regardless. It’s a lost art on the interwebs.

  51. As far as I am concerned, my RTKABA shall not be infringed and no venue has the right to search me for a gun without probable cause. I realize there are venues that don’t recognize the Constitution. In my state, the first violation of a GFZ sign is a misdemeanor trespasses violation, $50 fine, no loss of CHL.

    So my thought process is:
    > Do I really need to go past a GFZ sign at all? I don’t want to patronize any place so marked and I don’t want to be in a “criminal protection zone.”
    > If I do need to go there, what is the risk I will get caught and what is the punishment? If it is low to nil, I’m carrying. Worst case, I can handle the $50 fine.
    > If it’s a bigger penalty, like an airport or a school, no I won’t carry.

  52. I’ve been living in northern CALIF of 64 years. Never seen a GFZ sign, or, no guns allowed sign. I have been carrying concealed for 30 + years. A few years ago I went to Colorado to visit my son and saw one of these signs. I took a photo of it to show my California friends. They got a kick out of it.

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