Wisconsin Teacher Arrested for Storing Unloaded Gun in His Car’s Center Console

Jarrod Kuehn (courtesy ammoland.com)

Niki Clarke of WisconsinCarry.org writes [via AmmoLand.com]

As reported by fox11.com, a school teacher discovered that a colleague — Jarrod Kuehn [above] — kept a gun in his car in the school parking lot. The teacher called the cops. Kuehn believed he was legally storing his gun unloaded and encased in his center console of his locked vehicle as per Wisconsin Law. The police and prosecutors disagreed. They charged Kuehn with a felony for having a gun on school grounds. This is yet another example of the travesty that is Wisconsin’s prohibition against carry on school grounds even in your personal vehicle. Wisconsin law requires . . .

that your gun be unloaded and encased when on School Grounds even in your own vehicle.  Here is the statutory definition of encased:  “(b) “Encased” means enclosed in a case that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.”

Wisconsin Carry believes an unloaded gun secured in the center console meets the definition of “encased” because the latch on the center console meets the definition of “otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.” Apparently, the district attorney in Shawano County disagrees.

Now a law-abiding school teacher is suspended from his job facing felony charges with attorneys fees piling up.

Frequently after I discuss “school grounds carry” I have people tell me “as long as you are doing nothing wrong, the police would just give you a warning”.  This situation should prove to us all that not only will you receive no leniency, no warning, no benefit-of-the-doubt, but the police and DA will use a definition of “encased” that the statute does not seem to support.

While I hope and pray this poor guy beats the charges in court, his reputation has been dragged through the media, his life is on hold, he is suspended from his job, he has attorney fees piling up…  all because he tried to follow the letter of the law.

The “School Grounds Carry” bill (SB589) that Republican Senator Van Wanggaard of the 21st Senate District (Racine County) refused to move forward in the committee he chairs last session NEEDS to be given priority by Republican legislators who claim to support the 2nd Amendment and right to carry.

How many more law abiding citizens need to have their life ruined before Wisconsin’s legislators make the simple change to Wisconsin law to adopt the provision of the federal gun free school zone law that already allows CCL holders to carry on school grounds.

[Click here for a more detailed history on the effort WCI has undertaken over the past four trying to get school grounds carry passed.]

Nik Clark
Chairman/President – Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
nik@wisconsincarry.org

About Wisconsin Carry, Inc.:

Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is a non-profit corporation dedicated to the preservation and reclamation of the rights of law-abiding Wisconsin residents to carry in the manner of their choosing. We believe that “open carry” and “concealed carry” are choices to be made by law-abiding citizens based on their situation and preference. Wisconsin Carry, like many gun-rights organizations in Wisconsin, is investing a great deal of resources to get Wisconsin law changed to allow concealed carry this next legislative session by proposing Constitutional Carry. Wisconsin Carry, Inc. will continue to use legal recourse to deter unlawful treatment of law-abiding Wisconsin residents who currently exercise their right to open carry, and soon will exercise their right to concealed carry in Wisconsin. For more information, visit: www.WisconsinCarry.org.

comments

  1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    As far as I can gather, this man:
    (a) had/has no intent to attack anyone
    (b) had/has no malice aforethought
    (c) had an unloaded handgun in a center console in a locked vehicle

    Who did this man harm? How can the above be a “crime”???

    Someone has to tar and feather the police officers who arrested that man and the prosecutor who charged him.

    1. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

      Unfortunately, most people don’t care enough for these asshats to be ostracized as they should be. I try to keep up with who these people are locally so I can screw them over if I ever get the chance, but unfortunately I have never even spotted one, much less been in a position to cause them a problem. Probably never will be either:-(

    2. avatar neiowa says:

      “school teacher discovered that a colleague — Jarrod Kuehn”

      Some pissed jilted chick that also needs her head smacked. Stay away from stupid guys (and “education” is a hotbed for stupid libtard gals).

      1. avatar Mr. 308 says:

        This does sound quite possible.

      2. avatar Rusty Chains says:

        “school teacher discovered”

        ^ Said school teacher needs to be outed since that libtard is responsible for the damage to this man’s reputation, wealth, and job. If I could find the name it would be right here right now.

        1. avatar Wish I could tell you says:

          I know the name of the guy who turned him in. Regardless the guy rolled on the other guy to stay out of trouble for something else (Pretty sure the other guy wasn’t even a teacher and from what I have heard from different kids from that school is that the teacher who told on him might have an issue with drug problems and pedofila. His time is coming and he will be exposed. Poor teacher

    3. avatar Anonymous says:

      Who did this man harm?

      He harmed the delicate sensibilities and feelings of the teacher, the immoral and witless police who couldn’t fire any neurons during any of these events, and the DA who could care less about the repercussions of his/her actions as long as the numbers look good.

      Also. The news likes to use the ugliest photo possible for gun owners. Take a look at him here:

      https://www.linkedin.com/in/jarrodkuehn

  2. avatar OneOfTheGoodGuys says:

    This guy needs a gofundme account for his legal fees. Better yet, the NRA or Wisconsin Carry, Inc. should help him with his defense.

    1. avatar Supermike says:

      Sometimes you can’t just sit idle and complain… so help me do something about it. Please sign the petition:
      https://www.change.org/p/gregory-a-parker-drop-felony-gun-charges-and-dismiss-case-against-jarrod-kuehn

  3. avatar NYC2AZ says:

    When I taught, I never discussed guns with my colleagues unless they brought it up. Even then, I wouldn’t tell them I owned any.

    Sounds like this DA wants to waste tax-payers funds and ruin a guys life because hoplophobia. The DA should jump into a woodchipper, feet first, and save the taxpayers the money.

  4. avatar jk says:

    Second that. Has anyone started a gofundme page??

  5. avatar Farmer Tyler says:

    An ounce of prevention (keeping your mouth shut about having a gun legaly or not) is worth a pound of cure that may or not work (jobless, attorney fees, court costs etc).

    1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      Agreed. If anyone hears of a legit legal defense fund for this guy, I’m in for a c-note.

  6. avatar Jason says:

    His first mistake was letting anyone else at the school know that he had the weapon in his vehicle. That nice bobbing head he talked to turned out to be a hoplophobic piece of trash who threw him to the wolves.

    Someone should set up a legal defense fund for this guy that the public can donate to, because he didn’t do anything wrong.

    1. avatar Swilson says:

      ^This…He in no way deserves the charge or any of the trouble he finds himself in. However, whether you know you are legal, think you are legal or know you are illegally possessing a gun, esp. in a GFZ, DO NOT TELL ANYBODY! ¡No le digas a nadie!- Erzähle es niemandem- Ne le dis à personne- Chan eil duine sam bith innse!

    2. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

      On a personal, ‘trying to avoid trouble’ basis, that’s good advice.
      On a philosophical, ‘stand up for what is right’ basis, that would seem to be a recipe for further degradation of our rights if history offers any parallels. Are we to “pass” as a non-gun person like some people were able to “pass” as a different race? Are we to endure these insults, attitudes and transgressions fearing that if we make waves we’ll be tied to a tree and whipped like the slave we’ve become? When the pot we’re in is steaming, just about to boil, at what temperature do we jump out? When do we say, “NO MORE”? The ones that should be living in fear are those that wish to attack our rights.
      And no, I’m not running for president (or any other office).

      1. avatar Jason says:

        Well, you can see how it’s working out for this guy. The answer to problems we have with GFZs is to get the laws changed, not to get thrown in jail and financially ruined.

      2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

        “Are we to “pass” as a non-gun person like some people were able to “pass” as a different race?”

        In a word, yes. The whole purpose of concealed carry is appearing to not be armed when, in fact, you are.

    3. avatar gs650g says:

      And here’s hoping she is ostracized for the narc she is by others. Some will celebrate her “courage “.

    4. avatar Pond Avenue says:

      Wait, he made a mistake, but didn’t do anything wrong?

      He did both by apparently talking about his firearm, unless they were going to lunch and the other teacher opened the console.

    5. avatar radar says:

      Gotta be careful around Some Teachers, as friends or workmates .Many have a really skewed perspective of life, as it relates to “MORALS CLAUSES” in their teaching contract.

  7. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    The government is not your friend.

  8. avatar Omer Baker says:

    Even Illinois’ Supreme Court ruled that a center console or glove box were by legal definition “containers”. And that was before years before carry became law.

    1. avatar JBurke says:

      I’m not being a jerk but unless you have a concealed carry license the glove box or closed console doesn’t meet Illinois requirements. The weapon must be in a closed gun bag or case and in the trunk with ammo removed from mag. If your a resident or traveler with concealed carry, the glove box or console is sufficient loaded or unloaded. What it comes down to is it must be secured and out of reach by occupants without a carry license. You can read this at the ISP web site for more detailed info on storage in a vehicle. Just wanted you to have accurate info and not end up making crafts with our former Governors. 🙂

      1. avatar Binder says:

        Look it up, it’s case law in Illinois. Probably why he thought he was good in Wisconsin. And yes I’m being a jerk, but you can Google it really easily.i n fact most of what you said was B.S. you probably think the mag limit us 10 in Chicago, hit it is not.

      2. avatar Billy says:

        Sorry, JBurke, but you’re wrong.

        Without a carry license, one can legally transport a gun in Illinois if it is:
        1. Unloaded and encased.
        OR
        2. Broken down in a non-functioning state.
        OR
        3. Not immediately accessible (such as being in the trunk of the car).

        In Illinois v Diggins, the Illinois Supreme Court ruled that a car’s center console DID in fact qualify as a case for the purpose of #1 above, and this was way before the Firearms Concealed Carry Act passed in July of 2013.

        As for the ammo needing to be in a separate location, you’re also wrong. Without a carry license, you can have an unloaded handgun in your center console with a stack of loaded magazines right next to it.

        If by chance you’re an Illinois resident, I’d suggest you educate yourself on our state’s laws. The Illinois Carry website is a great source for information.

  9. avatar gs650g says:

    When the bans are nationwide in a Clinton administration this will be the norm. The stasi used people the same way.

  10. avatar Clark45 says:

    Who knew about this gun? Gimme a minute. {Furious keyboard clacking & mouse-clicking ensues.} Here we go. According to the local TV channel’s website, another teacher knew (why?) & outed him. Is that legal grounds for a search of the vehicle? I don’t know, but based on what I could find, he was within the law in how he had the firearm stored. Something stinks in Keshena, Wisconsin.

  11. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

    OPSEC
    nuff said

  12. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Very similar attitude in my locale. The DAs (there are four jurisdictions within 25miles) let the public know that any use of a firearm (including transport) discovered by authorities will result in arrest and trial (not tickets, a trial). These DAs declared that federal and state law notwithstanding, their intent is to make it very risky for citizens to possess firearms, of any type (a sling shot and BB gun are firearms…actually, under the definition locally, mash potatoes flung from a spoon is the discharge of a firearm) risky to possess. They are not bothered that a conviction will be overturned, they intend to financially ruin gun owners. And this is not even Californication,

    1. avatar Robert Farago says:

      What state are you in?

      1. avatar gs650g says:

        Must be either Jersey or the UK

        1. avatar Milsurp Collector says:

          I’ll throw my bet in for Maryland, notorious for pulling out of staters over just for having pro gun bumper stickers among other anti douchebaggery

        2. avatar Mr. 308 says:

          Jersey is a good bet. Not the UK.

      2. avatar wes says:

        My first thought was north las vegas

      3. avatar radar says:

        Ditto, As I would like to know where to avoid in my travels.
        But my guess, Michigan

      4. avatar BillC says:

        Check his IP?

    2. avatar Paladin says:

      If these statements are on record, could they not be used as evidence of malicious prosecution?

      1. avatar Bob315 says:

        A lawyer (judge) going after a lawyer (prosecutor) for that is rare even in the most extreme cases.

      2. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “If these statements are on record, could they not be used as evidence of malicious prosecution?”

        Great question. The situation is/was all four knew/know each other. The were speaking as private citizens, not as government officials (they can do that when doing public speaking, like at Lions club). So, the statements cannot be used as prima facie evidence.

        Once a DA determines to charge someone, prosecutoral misconduct is difficult to prove, not to say extraordinarily expensive. Attacking a DA via the courts puts an X on your back, permanently. Even if you could win a case (judges are lawyers, first), the authorities know who you are, know where you live, provide you with copious oversight for your safety. Just gotta know what you are getting into, and make decisions accordingly. For instance, reading gun blogs is very helpful reminding me that knowing about guns is great fun and entertainment; owning one is a different matter.

        1. avatar Anonymous says:

          Which state is this?
          Names of prosecutors please.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Which state is this?”

          East of California, West of Manhattan, North of Houston, South of Calgary.

          There are several reasons for not personally identifying these prosecutors (as noted in an earlier comment). I wish to maintain friendly relations within the legal community. Nothing on the internet is anonymous, but there is a difference between inference and poking someone in the eye.

    3. avatar radar says:

      Sam… You are not playing nice …. You made a comment and numerous people have asked you ( nicely) where to be careful, because of people in power having an agenda. I have not seen in any other replies you have made, sharing even the general local of this AGENDA. If these people have made these comments even as general street talk, it would be nice of you to tell us where to watch out.

      1. avatar Anonymous says:

        Play nice Sam. Give it to us.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Play nice Sam. Give it to us.”

          Just discussed the general location in two very recent responses. Did not know there were multiple requests. Just one responding to me. For anyone who did request, and I failed to catch it, my apologies. For those who have not read the other two notes with location…East of California, West of Manhattan, North of Houston, South of Calgary.

          There are several reasons for not personally identifying these prosecutors (as noted in an earlier comment). I wish to maintain friendly relations within the legal community. Nothing on the internet is anonymous, but there is a difference between inference and poking someone in the eye. I can safely say “There are vicious killers/dealers/gangs in my community”, but if I give names and addresses I will likely be required to respond to unwanted visitations.

          The point I was trying to make is that the law is used for personal purposes by government employees; know who is a threat and do not ignorantly provide an excuse for such people to move against you. Or, at least be aware of the risks you take. Please see:
          http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/25/dc-attorney-general-ignores-court-order-refuses-gun-permits/ for an example of official misuse of prosecutor authority.

        2. avatar george from fort worth says:

          i kin understand why he doesn’t wont to say to much. if’n you live in the south, grew up in dixie, have deep family roots around here, you know who is who, and what is what. don’t screw around with johnny law.

        3. avatar jeepers says:

          Hey Sam I don’t care about the who, just a bit more than East of West -West of East- North of South and South of North. would have been nice .
          So unless you were the 5th guy in a hot tub with the other 4, I would think you would be safe in saying what State, But I don’t know that, just sayin.

        4. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Its got four corners, if you know what I mean,

      2. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “….numerous people have asked you ( nicely)….”

        So far, I have seen only one request…which I answered. But to be responsive, the location is East of California, West of Manhattan, North of Houston, South of Calgary.

        There are several reasons for not personally identifying these prosecutors (as noted in an earlier comment). I wish to maintain friendly relations within the legal community. Nothing on the internet is anonymous, but there is a difference between inference and poking someone in the eye. I can safely say “There are vicious killers/dealers/gangs in my community”, but if I give names and addresses I will likely be required to respond to unwanted visitations.

        The point I was trying to make is that the law is used for personal purposes by government employees; know who is a threat and do not ignorantly provide an excuse for such people to move against you. Or, at least be aware of the risks you take. Please see:
        http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/25/dc-attorney-general-ignores-court-order-refuses-gun-permits/ for an example of official misuse of authority.

        1. avatar Hilts says:

          All hat, no cattle…

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “All hat, no cattle…”

          I don’t know what that means, but I’ll take it as a compliment.

          Thanks.

        3. avatar somewhere between here and there says:

          I take it to mean ” your full of Wind”!!

        4. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Yes, located somewhere between here and there.

          Cold and windy.

          And wet.

        5. avatar Mr. 308 says:

          If he doesn’t want to say where he is, that’s his business. This is just a discussion forum and most of us like to keep these things on the down low.

          “All hat, no cattle…”

          I don’t know what that means, but I’ll take it as a compliment.”

          This however tells us he’s probably not in the south, or even the west.

          Sam: not a compliment, basically same thing as ‘can talk the talk but not walk the walk.’

          And I think, uncalled for, there is no requirement here for us to identify ourselves or disclose where we live. Nothing wrong with that.

        6. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “….there is no requirement here for us to identify ourselves or disclose where we live. Nothing wrong with that.”

          Thanks for that. I did just make a note of geography that is about as far as I feel comfortable reporting. About that hat, I do understand “walk the talk”. The hat thing was actually pretty cool (now that I know what it means).

        7. avatar radar says:

          308

          If he doesn’t want to say where he is, that’s his business. This is just a discussion forum and most of us like to keep these things on the down low.

          You are right it is just a discussion, and down low is good, but he opened the door by his comment. It became BIGGER because he didn’t simply address the question in a broad regional terms. He made it get bigger by his avoidance then all inclusive smarty answer. I think if he was afraid of telling what State, he could have just said upper east coast southern coast or some other BROAD innocuous satisfactory
          answer. OR NOT SAID ANYTHING AT ALL .

          Nothing like, I heard it through the grapevine that Denver or Detroit, Bermuda, Texas, or Montana are spots to watch yourself because they might have Hillary’s agenda nailed down tight regardless of other factors. or have a leaning like this Wisconsin case.

        8. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “….I heard it through the grapevine that Denver or Detroit, Bermuda, Texas, or Montana are spots to watch yourself because they might have Hillary’s agenda nailed down tight regardless of other factors. or have a leaning like this Wisconsin case.”

          Yeah, what he said.

          +1

        9. avatar Anonymous says:

          Sam,

          We just want to do our own private investigations Sam. The internet can be anonymous Sam. Would you like for me to make it anonymous for you?

          Why don’t you download the TOR browser, go to any of these:
          https://duckduckgo.com/?q=disposable+email&ia=about

          Click a button, get a disposable email address. Paste only the names of those prosecutors and send it to an email address that I provide here. The email address and its contents that you used to send it, will be deleted in 1 hour. Can we do that? That way we don’t have to post anything here on TTAG.

        10. avatar Sam I Am says:

          TOR.

          Haven’t thought about that in a long time. Tried it once. Way more setup than I liked, and could never quite get it to be as easy to use as just the normal browsers. Now I am hearing TOR can get you into the deep/dark web before you know it.

          I did find this on “Digital Trends”, indicating government agencies can actually track TOR users (it was/is apparently a government project, that when used, is accessible by government agents; some noise has been generated about TOR being a Trojan for the government).

          “Merely using Tor can make one an attractive target for the government, even if you only use the network for legal purposes. Leaked NSA documents have revealed that they particularly focus on “dumb users,” people using Tor who may not be knowledgeable about Internet security “

        11. avatar Anonymous says:

          . Leaked NSA documents have revealed that they particularly focus on “dumb users,” people using Tor who may not be knowledgeable about Internet security

          Yea. To use TOR effectively you have to change some of your browsing habits. Best to use “Tails.” As it is a Linux distro and is by the OS nature of compile then run, is more secure than any Microsoft product. But I didn’t want to make it too difficult for you. Anyways, forget about it.

        12. avatar Sam I Am says:

          TOR.

          Your idea is good; my skills are at fault.

  13. avatar Mr. 308 says:

    This is mind boggling, how can it not be “otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.” if it was locked away as described?

    How are we supposed to comply with laws if even the very language of the definition is ignored?

    Hello lawyers, I know it’s unfair to paint a group of people with a broad brush, but this doubletalk lawyerspeak stuff in legislation is part of why we-the-people feel like every lawyer and LEO is out to get us. They are!

    Even the constitution, with its refreshing brevity and plain language, is twisted and kneaded to say whatever it is that the power mad statist wants it to say, in order to inflict their meanings on top of it. How can simple things like ‘shall not be infringed’ turn into bullet buttons and ownership permits and all the things we are seeing?

    Don’t get me started on the tax code, or Obamacare – who knows what that really says when you get down to it.

    This guy is getting strung up, and no doubt he was doing what he honestly thought was compliant and correct. This is wrong, very wrong.

    1. avatar radar says:

      Look at how many Politicians are, have been, dropped out or ?, to being a Lawyer.
      And we keep electing them.
      Trump is not the perfect Prize for President, BUT at Least he’s NOT A LAWYER!

      Bad joke alert=

      Q: If you are stranded on a desert island with Adolph Hitler, Atilla the Hun, and a lawyer, and you have a gun with only two bullets, what do you do?
      A: Shoot the lawyer twice.

    2. avatar Bob315 says:

      We are a country of men, not laws.

  14. avatar Jim says:

    K-12 Schools generally operate under “good reason” rather than probable cause for a search. At least that is the rule in CA.

  15. avatar tinHat says:

    The police and prosecutor are being gun Nazi’s they carry and arrest those who do. Guns are fine for me not you……Old saying Those in power want to keep Those who don’t have it want it

  16. avatar Rimfire says:

    CT, yes, but my home state, c’mon! WTF is going on here.I am embarrassed by this attack on the teacher’s integrity due to some pantywaist.That DA must be looking for attention to “further” his/her career.

    Wisconsin Carry and Nik Clark do a great job in our state and are under-appreciated. It’s time now for a show of support for this teacher. Who suggested a GOFUNDME account on his behalf? Great idea!! Nationwide support to stop this Klinton-esce DA

  17. avatar Dave says:

    The lesson here: Keep your f**king mouth shut! He would have been better off carrying a single stack in a thunderwear holster and not saying anything. No one is going to touch your d**k at work.

    1. avatar John E> says:

      at a grade school…wanna bet!

    2. avatar Lcsw says:

      Pocket pistol in a pocket holster and he would have been better off. The law protects criminals. So sad, our children are still sitting ducks.

  18. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

    It’s sad, but work friends are not friends. Nor are neighbors or family members. Even range buddies could turn vindictive and out you to your employer if you have a falling out.

    I’m not suggesting go be a hermit somewhere. I am saying absolutely avoid talking about your personal gun activities if there’s even a hint that the behavior falls in a grey area or your interlocutor is potentially shady (which is at least 95% of government employees).

    1. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

      Yup, I didn’t even know I had had a falling out with a coworker until I saw the police report as I was getting out of a long weekend in jail for carrying without a permit many years ago. It cost me a job, criminal record, and probably well over $100k. Police and prosecutors acted like I had killed someone when I had not even been impolite. It was surreal.

    2. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

      Because keeping and bearing arms is a sinister act, something to be ashamed of, a dark secret to conceal…… you know, like pedophilia…..

      As long as we let the anti’s control the narrative this way, they will continue to score victories in the ongoing war over this important civil right.

      1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        No, more like it’s a matter of picking your battles. Going it alone against an entire institution, especially when the legal circumstances involved are murky, isn’t exactly a winning strategy. Going in outnumbered and on shaky ground is more like a recipe for failure.

        No one’s saying hide in the shadows, just don’t put yourself in the most vulnerable position possible, ruin your life, and end up setting us all back. It would have been better to lobby for a clarification of the law to make explicit one’s right to have a firearm im your vehicle while on school property. Now, this guy could lose this case and the legal precedent would be established that console carry is illegal.

        It’s a higher legislative hurdle then to make legal something that is illegal, than it is to make legal something whose legal status is merely unclear. See the difference, or does your smug smog obscure your view?

        1. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

          Rosa Parks was willing to go to jail over a bus seat. Because it was the right thing to do.
          Is our right to bear arms not at least as important as a bus seat?

  19. avatar Badgerman says:

    I am from Wisconsin, and prior to the concealed law I believe the definition of encased meant a fully encapsulating case. The case could be a gun sock, hard case, soft case, or gun box. Holsters, glove boxes, or compartments of vehicles did not meet the legal definition. You could get a ticket by a DNR warden for leaning your rifle against your vehicle. After concealed carry took effect the law for school zones and property stated, the firearm must be unloaded and encased, or in a locked gun rack. I believe that the vehicles center console does not meet the requirement of encased. I could be wrong. Also, after concealed carry while not in a school zone or property a rifle or shotgun does not have to be cased, but must be unloaded, and open carry is only allowed in the vehicle while traveling in your vehicle through a school zone while in possession of a concealed carry liscense.

    1. avatar Mr. 308 says:

      “a fully encapsulating case. The case could be a gun sock, hard case, soft case, or gun box. Holsters, glove boxes, or compartments of vehicles did not meet the legal definition”

      Ok, is this documented somewhere – a glove box and a center console are fully encased containers usually with latches, often even with locks. How could a gun sock comply while a vehicle center console not?

      I mean if this is documented that’s one thing, but the law should be something we can understand if we are expected to comply to it. As described above “(b) “Encased” means enclosed in a case that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.”. A center console is fully enclosed (at least in most cars and presumably this dudes car) and has a latch.

      Would this guy not have been arrested if the gun was in a range bag that was zipped up?

      All the gun owners I know want to comply with the law and do actually read them in order to do so.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        You may be assuming the law was written so as to allow a person to comply. Wouldn’t make that assumption, myself. Many laws are intended to be used as a means to “prove a point” when some typical Joe/Joette does something the state doesn’t like. In this instance, I would presume “case” means what the average person thinks of when talking about a “case” (sock, pelican, steel, nylon, brief, suit, toolbox), not just any closed container. The authorities wherever this event took place likely do not care if they get an indictment, a conviction, of an affirmed appeal. The authorities proved their point, and already won just by bringing charges.

        1. avatar Mr. 308 says:

          I do understand that about laws and don’t make that assumption. I said that they should be so written, which they really should be.

          The vast majority of us citizens are law respecting and all we want to do is live our lives in compliance with the law, some of which we will no doubt disagree with but we really do want to follow them.

          Yes laws are written at some level to be impossible for anyone without a law degree and a team of assistants to wade through not just the language but the inevitable references and cross references and suchlike.

          And yes your last point is also no doubt true, and I just have to ask, rhetorically of course, how is this good for society?

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “And yes your last point is also no doubt true, and I just have to ask, rhetorically of course, how is this good for society?”

          There is a lot about law and laws that is/are not good for society. I did notice several commenters go on about “intent”, which is not somewhere I would go for justification. We hate “intent” when the leftists and demoncrats use that as an excuse for failure, tragedy and chaos caused by their good intentions that have no regard for who gets hurt, or the damage done.

    2. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

      Instead of arguing over whether a console or glovebox meets the definition of “encased”, we should be making a full court press strategy attacking the law and the government that enacted it. We should be telling the government that we will not allow them to infringe upon our rights in any manner. How much work is that DA going to get done with demonstrators loudly protesting outside his office and home?

      PS. What could be more “encasing” than a locked car?

      1. avatar Badgerman says:

        I was trying to make the point that prior to the concealed carry law any firearm had to be cases period and that included gun socks, and vehicle compartments did not meet the requirement. That was the law, and it was strictly enforced. The new law states encased, go look Wisconsin’s concealed carry law. I do not know if the legal definition of encased is same as it was in the past, or has changed since the concealed carry law took effect. I don’t agree with the current law, and unfortunately the chicken republican state legislature didn’t move on the school property bill to carry on school property (not buildings)this session. I hope this clears some items up.

      2. avatar Badgerman says:

        I was just trying to provide insight on Wisconsin law. I carry, and have had my Wisconsin concealed carry liscense since November 2011.

        1. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

          And I was just trying to provide the insight that rather than super analyze whether the law was actually broken or not, a better use of our time and efforts would be to show the law for what it really is, a clear infringement of our rights that serves no useful purpose.

      3. avatar Mr. 308 says:

        “What could be more “encasing” than a locked car?”

        A gun sock apparently. (I jest)

        These are the products of our legislators, legislator-genius’s. We need mandatory drug testing for all elected politicians I think.

      4. avatar Wilson says:

        A car… parked in an underground bunker that’s surrounded by razor wire, patrolled by armed Marines and inside a minefield with CAS on call 24/7…

    3. avatar Rob says:

      You are wrong. There is ZERO TOLERANCE in WI for any gun in a school zone other than unloaded, encased in a gun case and out of reach. Open carry or concealed carry is currently a FELONY here on school grounds.
      This is a hold-over from the 90’s, and our GOP dominated legislature has gotten cold feet about getting it changed. Despite our conservative leaning state government, there are LOTS of Liberal Democrat local and county government employees here in WI. They never liked concealed carry (we were the next to last state to even have it), and this donut hole in our otherwise really good gun laws has been used time and again to punish law abiding gun owners here. No one does any time in jail, but there is no way out of it. I can think of 5 or 6 examples just in the last year. We have been screaming for the state senate and assembly to pass a law, but they have become afraid of the negative press in an election year. Even the federal government recognizes ccw permits and exempted them from school zones, but our law even prevented police officers who weren’t on duty from carrying their weapons into schools when picking up their own kids!!

  20. avatar Pawl from Florida says:

    I must be getting old because I remember when a “Rat ” was on the same level as a child molester. They both get sexual gratuity from their actions.

  21. avatar Joseph says:

    A complete travesty of justice, and a glimpse of what life will be like under President Hillary.

  22. avatar tdiinva (now in Wisconsin} says:

    The Federal Gun Free Zone statute does not allow you to carry on school grounds with a valid CHL. It allows you carry outside of school property within the zone. Some states, like Virginia allow you to carry in your car on school property when you pick up your children. Wisconsin law allows you to keep a gun secured in your car in the parking lot at your place of work or government office building. Whether this applies to a parking lot within a Federal School GFZ is unclear.

    Attention potential flamers I am talking about what is and not what should be.

    1. avatar tdiinva (Now in Wisconsin) says:

      Just check the statute. The parking lot exemption does not apply in school parking lots. He should have know that. This may be another case where a permit holder does not understand the rules.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      What does this have to do with the federal guns free school act? Everything here seems to point to an issue of state law.

  23. avatar Supermike says:

    This is incredible… can someone at WCI (or closer to the situation) start a change.org petition for Jarrod Kuehn to the prosecutor to drop the charges? This is ridiculous. He was not hurting anyone and had done his best to meet the letter of the law, even if they didn’t feel he met the intent.

  24. avatar Aaron says:

    So, how’d the colleague find out??

    1. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

      In the immortal words of the presumptive Democratic nominee, “What difference does it make?”

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        Are you emulating her? Is she your role model?

        It matters because there may be other people out there who don’t want to end up in a similar situation.

        1. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

          No, and hell no.
          It shouldn’t matter because the reaction of the people of the gun should be swift, loud and overwhelming. Demonstrations, phone calls, letters, emails, etc., etc…. That way the next DA that gets such a call from a co-worker will think twice before trying to ruin one of us. The more desperate the antis get, the more hardcore should our response be. They need to learn not to poke the sleeping bear.

  25. avatar Danny Griffin says:

    I don’t understand the “police will just give you a warning ” if you’re not doing anything illegal comment in the article.

  26. avatar Groutboy says:

    1. It was the local police department that did this…Or in this case a sheriff’s office…The Sheriff’s office seriously needs a legal enema…They need to be “Defunded”. The Sheriff and his cohorts need to be Tarred and Feathered by citizens!

    2. Make it a capital crime for a politician, Law enforcement, government agencies, or even private companies /landlords/or other entities…To infringe upon a Lawful citizens US Constitutional-Bill of Rights.

    1. avatar ATTAGReader says:

      I don’t know Wisconsin, but looking at the map, this appears to be a very rural county. The sheriff should be voted out, period, end of discussion. Along with the prosecutor if he/she goes along with this garbage. Along with the judge who would not dismiss the charge. I hope that the charge goes to a grand jury, and the grand jury refuses to indict. I would imagine that this county is heavily R, and if I were the sheriff, I would be very concerned about my job.

  27. avatar FormerWaterWalker says:

    Loose lips sink ships. Never tell anyone anything. He should tell us ALL who outed him and ruined his life for nothing. Save him Scott Walker…

  28. avatar pg2 says:

    The 2nd Amendment was not meant for parents.

  29. avatar Paul Hurst says:

    His colleague must so proud of himself ruining this man’s life.

    Pro-Tip: Do not talk guns with work colleagues. Duh.

  30. avatar tdiinva (Now in Wisconsin) says:

    I note that the first post was at 0910 and until I posted at 1111 nobody bothered to look up the actual statute.

    Note to Robert: TTAG has some of the best original articles in gun blogging but I will tell you the people commenting on Bearing Arms as rule are far more knowlegable. It would not have taken two hour for someone to look up the statute.

    1. avatar Mr. 308 says:

      Hmmph, I don’t know about others but I took this post to mean that the law was checked and even the relevant portion of it quoted.

      Thank you for doing the research.

  31. avatar SteveInCO says:

    Lest you think this is something you don’t need to worry about in your state, because it’s a pro gun state:

    As I understand it the same thing could happen in any US Postal Service parking lot, anywhere in the US.

  32. avatar Sian says:

    Lesson: Opsec is important.

    My cousin lost his carry G19 because he couldn’t carry it at work, and someone happened to find out and broke into his car.

    Don’t tell anyone who doesn’t need to know what and where your firearms are. You don’t know who they may talk to, one of them might be a thief, or worse, a statist pearl-clutcher.

  33. avatar Wilson says:

    The first rule of having a gun in your car is that you don’t talk about having a gun in your car.
    The second rule of having a gun in your car is that you don’t talk about having a gun in your car.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      Is the third rule not to leave your gun in your car?

      1. avatar Wilson says:

        Rule three is that when shooting someone if they surrender, go limp or run away you don’t shoot them again.

  34. avatar Drew says:

    I guess he should have put his gun inside a ziploc baggie. Then it would have been legal.

    Hope he finds a team to support him and helps him win out.

  35. avatar Supermike says:

    Between this and the whole Steven Avery case, there is enough compelling evidence for me to not only NEVER want to live in Wisconsin, but never VISIT, either.

    Sometimes you can’t just sit idle and complain… so help me do something about it. Please sign the petition:
    https://www.change.org/p/gregory-a-parker-drop-felony-gun-charges-and-dismiss-case-against-jarrod-kuehn

  36. avatar David T says:

    I hereby nominate Wisconsin for the “creepiest politicized justice system” award.

    1. avatar Supermike says:

      Agreed.. after watching ‘Making a Murderer’ and reading this, you couldn’t force me into living in that state. I don’t even want to visit there. I’m starting to think this is an anti-tourism effort.

      1. avatar Rob says:

        WI is a far, far better place than it ever was pre Scott Walker. This state has been tarnished by the death throes of hard left unionista policies, and this is an example of how they are desperate to hang onto any scrap of power. I’ve lived here for over 30 years, and I can still remember being transferred here from Indiana in 1985, with my ccw permit. I asked my realtor where I could get my WI ccw, and he had no idea what I was talking about. Because carrying concealed was only a low level misdemeanor if caught, I decided I’d rather be “judged by 12, than carried by 6”, and carried concealed for the next 25 years until we finally got our own ccw license. I lived in the belly of the liberal beast, Madison, so I kept it VERY low key, and still do. Don’t judge WI by this unfortunate situation. We have some of the best reciprocity laws in the nation, no magazine restrictions, NFA items are ok, instant background checks with no waiting period , even handguns. It was only after we passed our concealed carry laws that some in the legislature realized they’d forgotten to rewrite the school zone section of the prior law. The outrage at this oversight is growing, and I expect it to be on the agenda when the legislature re convenes in Fall. Oh, and Steven Avery is guilty as F^ck. If you believe that so called documentary, you’re an idiot.

        1. avatar Supermike says:

          So if you’re from Indiana, you know where I’m coming from (perspective-wise) now. 🙂

          Nah, I don’t believe the documentary, per se… What I do believe from it is the back-scratching protectionism of the WI government and seeming lack of due process at every turn.

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