We were a little worried when Glenn Beck published a book entitled Control: Exposing the Truth About Guns. Turns out it it had nothing to do with the truth about The Truth About Guns. In this case, with NBC hijacking our catchphrase, we’re more than happy to leave our lawyers chained up. ‘Cause this segment actually does . . . wait for it . . . tell the truth about guns. “The gun show loophole,” the availability of automatic firearms, stats about firearms-related suicides, and the fact that gun control advocates are disguising their desire for civilian disarmament. Well, not that last one. But the truth will set them back. If you know what I mean.

53 Responses to NBC: “The Truth About Guns And Gun Control”

  1. That 21,000 + figure on guns and suicides was far above any figure I’d have ever thought possible.

    Is there a reliable figure for suicides by means other than Guns (drug overdose, strangulation, poison, etc?)

      • I was told years ago that many times suicides were ruled as accidental for the sake of families who might not be able to handle the fact someone purposely took their life. I wonder if that was true, and if so, if it is still done presently. It could really skew numbers.

        • Perhaps that’s also for insurance purposes too. If the death is ruled an accident, the family may be able to claim the life insurance policy, depending on the stipulations of said policy.

          However, all life insurance policies have a stipulation saying they don’t pay out in the case of suicide.

        • I’ve seen it. A friend killed himself (shotgun in the garage) and our local police didn’t report it as such. Called “accidental firearm discharge” and the Chief swore to it in a deposition for insurance purposes. Company tried the old “suicide voids the policy” routine, judge “reminded” them that policies in force more than three years can’t claim this out. This is the “anticipation of death” clause to prevent people from taking out policies just prior to killing themselves.

    • According to the CDC, there were about 41,149 suicides in the US. 21,175 were from firearms, 10,062 were suffocation, and 6,637 were from poisoning.
      http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

      The AFSP has an interesting interactive graph that shows where Americans are committing suicide (by state). New York, Illinois, California and Texas all rank near the bottom. Seems counterintuitive, as those places are home to the largest metropolises in the country.

      The Mountain time zone is the home of suicide in this country. Colorado, Montana, Wyoming, New Mexico, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, and Oklahoma make up 8 of the 9 States where suicide is highest as a proportion of the population. Alaska is the one that breaks up that curve, it sits near the top of the list at #2.

      • They’re just tired of listening to liberal nonsense on every news channel, every newspaper, every tv show, every movie, and over the radio and seek a means of escaping the ever spreading lunacy.

      • Couple of possible reasons for this.
        One is kind of obvious–major metros have more places people with suicidal thoughts can go for help–therapists, doctors, what have you–so they DON’T commit suicide or harm themselves. People out in the boonies may not have those resources available to them, so they suffer alone, often in silence.

        The second is that major metro areas just have more things to do that can take a person’s mind off their demons for a while. There are distractions there that maybe might not be helpful, but will at least distract them from their problems. You’re out in the middle of nowhere Colorado. What the hell are you going to do besides be alone with whatever terrible thing is eating you up inside?

      • “21,175 were from firearms, 10,062 were suffocation, and 6,637 were from poisoning.”

        With firearms. Guns don’t have agency anymore than poison does. “From poisoning” makes some sense, for a murder, a murder “from poisoning.” Or “killed by poison.”

      • It could be due to demographics. Both blacks and hispanics tend to have lower suicide rates. Religion could also be a factor since Catholics tend to have lower suicide rates than Protestants. The whole guilt trip and going straight to hell theory most likely stops Catholics from killing themselves.

  2. What!?!? NBC made a truthful gun documentary!?!? How!?!? Pair this with the ninth circut ruling and we can now assume 2 seals have broken.

    • Nice biblical reference, but most people won’t understand what you’re alluding too. May I try to match your reference with another obscure one? Thanks. It’s like having Siloam’s head on a platter.

        • I think he meant “Salome”, not Siloam. Siloam was pool where sick folks went to be healed. Salome was the girl whose dancing pleased the king, and asked for John the Baptist’s head on a platter as her reward. Still don’t exactly understand the connection.

  3. I would like to see this on the regular news and not on the NBC News youtube channel.

  4. Yeah I too question that 11,000 figure. What does the CDC consider a “gun suicide”? We all know the CDC is not all that reliable when it comes to firearm figures. But I will give it to them for trying to tell the truth. If not all of it.

    • What’s unclear? A “gun suicide” is one in which a person dies at their own hand by using a gun.

      Guns are much more successful at killing people than other methods. If you were to categorize suicide attempts, there are probably way more people trying to kill themselves and failing, when using other methods. But when they use a gun, they’re successful much more frequently.

      Therefore, guns show up disproportionately high in the statistics, because the stats are counting successful suicides, not just attempts.

      • “But when they use a gun, they’re successful much more frequently.”

        You can’t support this with facts.

        “Therefore, guns show up disproportionately high in the statistics, because the stats are counting successful suicides, not just attempts.”

        And you even admit it yourself.

        Anything else you want to whine about?

        • Your crow is served in the post below. Try barbecue sauce, it seems like it would help.

        • Non responsive. Try again, this isn’t hard. Back up your statement or admit you cannot.

          It’s a simple thing.

        • Of COURSE guns are more successful than other methods. The real question is… so what?

          If someone is suicidal that’s the problem, not hoping that they fail at it because they chose a method that is simpler and usually much less painful than others.

        • First of all this harvard study you are pointing to produces an estimate for these figures based on correlating three different data sets, it is rather complex and I am not digging through all that. In the end it is an estimate, which has no doubt a margin of error that you need to understand what they did to really understand. So it’s a data point, not proof.

          And in the second place it is also clear that you went looking for this after you made the assertion, meaning you were speaking out of you rass, and you cannot back this up with facts.

          Keep digging there Mr. RealityCheck.

        • Hanging, high heights jumping, and helium bags are the most successful means by my anecdotal statistics. I’ve seen enough failed shootings to realize that for every firearms suicide attempt are a bunch of frontal lobe partial lobotomies and failed Hemingway shotgun attempts that result in Predator-faced people who join the world of tube feeding and facial skin grafts. Call 911 or go to your local psychiatric crisis center if you have thoughts of self-harm. Don’t get drunk if you are depressed already because it won’t help to get drunk. In most states you do not lose your firearms rights unless it is involuntary treatment.

      • Okay, here’s the rest of the story, according to a study by Harvard (yes, I know, but — it’s all I could find). They tracked suicides by method for 2005.
        http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/

        In that study, it purports to document all the suicide attempts in 2005. It shows that firearms produced a fatal result 85% of the time. Suffocation was fatal 69% of the time. Jumping/falling to one’s death was fatal 31% of the time. Poisoning or drug overdose was fatal only 2% of the time. Cutting/piercing (I assume this includes stabbing oneself or slashing one’s wrists) was fatal just 1% of the time.

        So, here’s where the numbers lie: overall there were 353,613 suicide attempts in 2005. Of those, 30,622 (9%) were fatal. Of the fatal suicides, 16,869 (55%) were from firearms.

        Let’s put it another way. 353,613 people attempted suicide in 2005, and the number of firearm suicide deaths was 16,869 (about 4.8%). That means that when someone goes to “check out”, 94.4% of the time they choose a method OTHER than a firearm. However, when they DO choose a firearm, they successfully complete the job 85% of the time. Firearms are by far the most successful method, and therefore account for the most deaths, but they only account for a very small percentage of the number of suicide ATTEMPTs.

        • Sounds about right, esspecially the cutting/stabbing portion being so low. You gotta be pretty damned hard core to stab yourself to death.

        • “B says:
          May 21, 2016 at 16:56

          Huh. Mr. 308, consider yourself served.”

          Uh, nope. See above. Go read the study yourself and show me where it says ‘fact’.

          It’s a statistical estimate, it’s a guess.

        • Is there any data on how many of those non firearm suicides are more of a cry for help? Someone who wants attention for their problems but feels unable to talk to anyone about them may choose a suicide method likely to leave then alive. This has been mentioned before on this topic but I’ve never seen any data on it, I’m bit even sure I’d such data could be collected.

      • Reality Check? Might check the reality of your statement about people and how stupid they are in not knowing if a suicide attempt will result in actual death. The fact that Japan has a complete ban on civilian gun ownership, yet has a higher suicide rate than the U.S. many by jumping out of tall buildings, makes this point very well.

        This is why we call those that act out a suicide attempt that was unsuccessful as being a cry for help, because they really didn’t mean it.

        Studies show that when gun access is restricted, the suicide rate stays the same, what changes are the means used. So instead of a gun that is easily accessible to commit the terminally certain deed, they might choose an O.D. when they know no one will find them or by jumping off a tall bridge instead.

        • Sigh, Reality Check. So you make no response to my rebuttal to your post, beyond simply saying read your post again. Which means you have no logical or factual response to the point I made, which is when people really want to die, they will use any certain method, even if no guns are available, like in Japan where they jump out of really tall buildings.

          In other words R.C. When people really want to die, they will make it certain, with or without a gun.

        • Sigh, oh, Reality Check. So you make no response to my rebuttal to you post, beyond simply saying read your post again. Which means you have no logical or factual response to the point I made, which is when people really want to die, they will use any certain method, even if no guns are available, like in Japan where they jump out of really tall buildings.

          In other words R.C. When people really want to die, they will make it certain, with or without a gun.

        • Well of course that point’s true (as you can see adequately and thoroughly illustrated in my post below, the response to Indiana Tom).

          The presence of guns has nothing to do with the # of suicides we have in this country. The only point being made is that of the available options in this country, guns are the most effective at succeeding, and therefore are disproportionately highly represented in the statistics. In countries where guns are not available, they turn to other highly-effective methods, such as hanging. But in the USA, it seems people are much more likely to choose firearms over hanging, even though (and here’s the big point) 94.4% of people who attempt suicide at all in the US, DON’T choose a firearm, they choose some other method (which overwhelmingly fails, by the way).

      • Guns are much more successful at killing people than other methods. If you were to categorize suicide attempts, there are probably way more people trying to kill themselves and failing, when using other methods. But when they use a gun, they’re successful much more frequently.
        Ask the Japanese about this subject. They are very good about suicide and gun control.

        • How is that in any way related to what’s actually happening in America?

          First, Japan is hardly the suicide capital of the world. Their rate is higher than the US’s, yes, but doesn’t come close to South Korea, Lithuania, or Greenland. The Japanese rank #8 in the world for suicide rate.

          And no, the Japanese don’t have firearms suicides, so they have to choose a different method. Their method of choice? HANGING. They hang themselves. You can see the rates and methods (if you can read Japanese) here: http://ikiru.ncnp.go.jp/genjo/toukei/pdf/2_02.pdf

          As a quick summary: for 2012, they documented 28,796 suicides. Of those, 19,700 were from hanging. Hanging doesn’t even show up as a category in the USA’s CDC’s numbers at all (although there were probably some, listed in the “other” category).

          Ban guns, and people will hang themselves, yes. But if guns are available, they’ll choose that over hanging. Seems obvious. And both methods seem quite effective.

        • Well, I’m glad we are in agreement, Reality Check. Restricting guns won’t lower a countries suicide rate, once a person has decided they really want to die, and not just make symbolic cries for help. They will use a method that is certain, whether that’s with a rope, or a shotgun to the back of the mouth.

        • And both methods seem quite effective.
          Just because you take away the guns, that does not mean the suicides stop or the rate drops.

        • Ask the Japanese about this subject. They are very good about suicide and gun control.
          How is that in any way related to what’s actually happening in America?
          Compare and contrast.
          Japan has lots of gun control and high suicide rates.
          USA has “lax” gun control and lower suicide rates.
          Passing more gun control implies fewer suicides per the Liberals.
          So Gun Control is good.
          Of course the fewer suicides due to banning guns will just not happen.

        • Whenever this argument occurs I like to bring out this chart showing the relationship between suicides in the United States and Canada:

          http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2011/02/us-vs-canada-suicide-edition.html

          While the rates are a statistical tie the overwhelming difference is the method used to commit suicide due to the availability of firearms. This clearly shows the substitution effect at work and suggests that method and rate are independent of each other.

  5. I wouldn’t trust NBC news to tell me the truth about the current time, let alone something like this.

    I don’t understand why anyone would either. Are people really just plain stupid? Or is the conditioning just that effective?

  6. File the link to that story. Every time they assign “pro gun” reporting to “right wing” news sources, use that NBC link. When asked for contrary numbers, or where numbers come from, use numbers from that NBC report, and reference that they came from NBC.

  7. “We were a little worried when Glenn Beck published a book entitled Control: Exposing the Truth About Guns. Turns out it it had nothing to do with the truth about The Truth About Guns.”

    Have you read Beck’s ‘Control’?

    Seriously, have you?

    It lays out, step-by-step, the case for guns in the context of the 2A. The *proper* context.

    The last I checked, the 2A has *everything* to do with guns. (And all other forms of ‘arms’)

    So how is it not about The Truth About Guns?

    (Look, I get it, Beck is now in the deep end, his book, however, is a solid read…)

  8. Great video. Only 6 thousand views though? I doubt the word is going to get out about the truth.

    People don’t want to be educated, they want to follow the heard, the heard says guns are bad.

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