Gun Hero of the Day: Liberty University

Liberty University seal (courtesy wikipedia.org)

I’m not a huge fan of fundamentalism. Too often its adherents adhere to intolerance. Be that as it is, props to the fundamentalists at Liberty University. “This college will let your kids bring guns into their dorms,” the virulently anti-gun rights nypost.com‘s headline bleats. “Liberty University will allow students with concealed handgun permits from the state to keep their weapons in their dorms beginning next fall . . .

The News & Advance reports those students would need permission from the school first. The guns would be kept in safes inside the residence halls at the private Christian university. The policy change was given the go-ahead by the university’s board of trustees last week.”

This expected but welcome turn-of-events reflects a wider issue. Why do we have public universities indeed public schools in the first place?

I don’t remember any part of the Constitution that establishes government control of education; education is a privilege not a right. The anti-gun gestalt in our public institutions is a logical outgrowth of government education. Anything government-owned and operated is subject to political control by the state — which naturally aspires to civilian disarmament.

School vouchers? All day long. Liberty of thought and protection of Constitutional rights in government education? If not impossible then highly likely. Ipso facto. Meanwhile, nice one LU.

comments

  1. avatar SteveInCO says:

    Why do we have public universities indeed public schools in the first place?

    You’re entirely right to ask this.

    I don’t remember any part of the Constitution that establishes government control of education; education is a privilege not a right.

    Many state constitutions enshrine education as a “right” (i.e., really an entitlement), though your statement is certainly correct re: the US Constitution. And in an ideal world, would be true of the state ones as well.

    1. avatar JasonM says:

      Yet he apparently has no problem with school vouchers.
      So it’s wrong to tax people to pay for government schools in violation of the Constitution.
      But it’s perfectly fine to tax people to pay for private schools in violation of the Constitution?

      Private companies that service government contracts are just as corrupt and inept as government agencies. To get decent private education, at the best possible price, we need to remove government from the equation entirely.

      1. avatar SteveInCO says:

        Don’t disagree. Not in the slightest.

      2. avatar barnbwt says:

        There is certainly more tradition and justification in the government requiring the public be educated, vs. educating the public. Not like our system of governance relies on it or anything, after all. Vouchers are as justified as taxes for roads (also built by private contractors) and for the same reasons. Should be state level or more local, imo, with federal courts (not congress) determining whether they are meeting their obligations to their constituents –simple block grant reform/reduction.

  2. avatar Jack Wagner says:

    Faculty and staff have been able to carry concealed on campus and in any LU owned building and property for a few years now as well. LU’s police department also offers a free safety course to meet state requirements to obtain a permit at least one a month to students and staff.

    No matter what you think about Liberty University and its christian roots, any freedom loving American can respect the boldness of President Falwell to extend the fundamental right of bearing arms to everyone on campus.

    1. avatar Wv Cycling says:

      Ate cherries from the hill below the Fallwell mansion (close to cafeteria) one summer when I took a class there.

  3. avatar LarryinTX says:

    Why would I even dream of informing the school how many guns I have in my home, because that is what you’re talking about. Why would I ask their permission? In fact, I did not ask, but that was 60 years ago, I’m pretty sure they didn’t care.

    1. avatar Grumpy says:

      Because its a dorm, not a home. Its full of young people exploring the freedoms of being on their own for 4 months at a shot, living in tight quarters with lots of common areas. Add a bit of exploration of drinking and drugs typical of the 17-25 set. Add roommates assigned by the school. Sounds to me like the school is taking a very sane and balanced approach.

      1. avatar SouthernPhantom says:

        Where I go to school, guns wind up secured in vehicles (on or off campus, state law establishes the latter as legal). I know of some who have things in dorms, but I wouldn’t happen to know who or where 😉

        1. avatar neiowa says:

          Guns (or anything else) left in a vehicle are abandoned NOT “secured’.

      2. avatar Jack Wagner says:

        Grumpy, you are spot on…minus the drugs and drinking. Its Liberty University, all of that is taboo on campus but a possibility for students living off campus.

      3. avatar Matt says:

        From my college days, your dorm room fell under the same laws the protect your apartment and make you the resident as the tenet. The police or school staff couldn’t enter without a warrant or your permission respectively.

  4. avatar ropingdown says:

    -and note that the shepherd of this policy is Jerry Falwell, Jr., who has endorsed Trump. He is willing to take the chance.

    Trump cannot take the reputational risk of running on clear policies only to abandon them. He would never live it down.

  5. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    Why do we have public education?

    Fair enough question. Look around the world. Every developed nation, and many still “developing” nations, have a taxpayer-funded education system. In those “developing” nations, schools are the first buildings to go up among the thatch huts.

    The reason is obvious. Government leaders know that the next generation needs to be educated if that nation is going to have a future. Even brutal dictators know this. You can’t compete in this world with an ignorant, illiterate population.

    I don’t want to live in a country where poor children don’t get educated. If not for the burden of educating them (through tax dollars), they would only become a burden on society later.

    The greatest example of socialism in the United States is our public education system. I hold it up as an example of how socialism is inherently inefficient, tends to become corrupt, and leads to mediocrity. But for all its faults, a public education is better than no education. And those are the only two options for a significant share of the population.

    1. avatar Red in CO says:

      Wow, that was beautifully said. Thank you.

    2. avatar Rooster says:

      ‘If not for the burden of educating them (through tax dollars), they would only become a burden on society later.’

      Excellent point. Education is cheaper than incarceration.

    3. avatar Andrew Lewis says:

      “If not for the burden of educating them (through tax dollars), they would only become a burden on society later.”

      Or we as a society could grow a backbone and simply not tolerate burdens, through either eviction, forced usefulness, or execution.

      Yeah I have no sympathy for the human condition.

    4. avatar Stuki Moi says:

      America did perfectly fine, in fact finer than now, before enacting any form of federal and state level education policy. Literacy rates were, at minimum, no lower than they are today, amongst early settlers.

      “Public education” is a bit problematic to debate, as it isn’t very clearly defined. Almost any ten families growing up next door neighbors a mile from each other on a prairie, will likely pool their kids together to share a bible to read, if nothing else. That is public education. And I can’t see why it wouldn’t be a good thing.

      But what is meant by “public education” in political discourse today, is a perversion built on top of Prussian style nationalized indoctrination of citizens into pliant worker bees for the ruling elite. With curricula set by agents of the state. Funding provided by state coercion. And all at a level of government far, far removed from control of the actual people whose own kids are in any given school. And that is not a good thing. Not at all.

      1. avatar Mister Fleas says:

        +1

      2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

        Well Said.

    5. avatar Cuteandfuzzybunniess says:

      Yes those are the only options. That’s why all the food eaten by people on welfare is grown on collective government ran farms. Also all the housing poor people pay for with government assistance is built and maintained by the government. When people on welfare buy clothing it has to be clothing made in government garment factories too right ? Oh wait, the only place the government somehow needs to socialize an industry to provide a service to the poor is education ?

      We can agree that educating the poor is a good thing. We can argue a it weather government of civil society can do a better job of educating the poor and there are sound arguments on both sides. But to say that socialism in education , where the government owns the means of production , is the only way to have public education is a laughable idea. It’s as laughable as the silly examples above.

    6. avatar Patrick says:

      Important concepts:
      “correlation and causation”
      “production precedes predation”
      “the information age”
      “state indoctrination”

    7. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Curtis, you need to do some research on the history of compulsory education. It’s true designed purpose is not to “educate.” From the very beginning, Public Ed was designed to “program.” Read any of John Taylor Gatto’s works for more details.

      Also, as was mentioned above, literacy rates have NOT improved in the US since the advent of public ed. Some of Gatto’s research has shown literacy to have actually DROPPED. Looking around the level of intellectual competence in the US today compared to, say, 1890, makes that abundantly clear.

      Third, your “look around the world” analogy smacks awfully close to the anti-gun mantra of “Europe has banned guns, therefore we should too!” We need to run our country in a way that is best for US, not on the basis of some sense of joining the Global Bandwagon.

      Solely for the sake of argument, I will concede that for a developing nation comprised mostly of villages with thatch huts, public ed can serve a useful purpose in the community. Okay, but how does that apply to the United States? Are you saying that what is “good” for a developing nation trying to lift itself out of the third world is exactly the ONLY thing that can be “good” for the US? Nonsense.

      Public Education in the US is a colossal failure by many metrics. It does not achieve the goals many think form the core of it’s mission (that is, “to educate”). It is an enormous waste of money (ie, in terms of $ per student efficiency). And, some of the most ridiculous social constructs of our time, such as “Zero Tolerance” braindeadness, are conceived, born and/or nurtured in the public school crucible.

      Public Education, as it’s practiced, is an abomination to the idea of “education.”

  6. avatar Sgt Bill says:

    “I’m not a huge fan of fundamentalism. Too often its adherents adhere to intolerance.” Yeh, like those pesky founders of our America right? and those who wrote the constitution and the 2nd amendment…just too fundamentalist

    1. avatar Stoopid1 says:

      Now that is just poking an ignorant jackass in the eye. Not nice.

    2. avatar SteveInCO says:

      Most of the founders were not fundamentalists. (And if you are about to quote to me from David Barton, he’s been shown to be a liar.)

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “Most of the founders were not fundamentalists.”

        True, however, Mr. Farago is on record as being an absolutist on the 2A.

        So, RF, how do you reconcile that with “I’m not a huge fan of fundamentalism.”?

        🙂

      2. avatar Stuki Moi says:

        By today’s standards, they were pretty fundamentalistic in their belief in freedom, amongst other things.

        1. avatar Mad Max says:

          Then I guess I’m a fundamentalist constitutionalist.

          I think every university’s mission statement should start with the US Bill of Rights (just substitute “University” for “Congress”.

  7. avatar Ralph says:

    Why do we have public universities indeed public schools in the first place?

    Why? Because it’s the only way to be sure that Americans remain both stupid and ignorant.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/just-37-of-u-s-high-school-seniors-prepared-for-college-math-and-reading-test-shows-1461729661

    1. avatar SouthernPhantom says:

      I have grown increasingly intolerant of public education of any sort, besides for providing vouchers. Even that should only be an interim measure until education can be completely reverted to parents and private institutions. Public “education” is indoctrination with an aim of teaching students what to think, not how to think. It is incredibly tolerant of outright criminal behavior by students, while doing everything possible to subvert all Constitutional rights.

      To put things in perspective, I graduated high school two years ago. The IB program woke a lot of folks up to the presence of borderline Communist influence in public schooling.

      1. avatar Milsurp Collector says:

        I graduated high school just three years prior to you. The only reason I didn’t depart my college years dumber than when I went in is because I read a metric sh!t ton outside of class for fun. it deprogrammed me of everything I had learned up to that point. When you read history books by people who were there instead of “critically acclaimed” junk selected by professors solely for its propaganda value, your eyes open rather wide. It’s not hard to see the overtly marxist influence in American academia, you just need to hurl yourself to a different vantage point outside the void.

        1. avatar Mister Fleas says:

          +1000 to the three of you.

          Have you seen these videos?
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8tZGl1SVs0

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAcfuKbKqK8

  8. avatar FedUp says:

    Gun Hero University = after years of prohibiting guns in students’ homes, will begin allowing students to hand their guns over to the school for safekeeping near the students’ homes, if the student gets permission from the school.

    Thanks, I think I’ve got it now.

    1. avatar Jack Wagner says:

      Do you get it though? Students are living in dorms, not their homes and the article clearly states that “The guns would be kept in safes inside the residence halls at the private Christian university.” Also, Liberty has always been firearm friendly and students are allowed access to the LU police department firing range to practice.

      1. avatar Stuki Moi says:

        Where you lay your hat, is your home.

  9. avatar neiowa says:

    not a huge fan of fundamentalism. Too often its adherents adhere to intolerance

    In other words people/groups that don’t accept counterculture, uncivilized, anti-social BS? Sex, drugs, rocknrollm and marx? What could go wrong (look around).

  10. avatar samuraichatter says:

    How about weapons that are not firearms?

    How about a student with a CCW that lives off campus and drives to school?

    1. avatar Jack Wagner says:

      Anyone with a valid carry permit for VA or any state with reciprocity can carry on campus.

      As far as non firearm items: pocket knives are normal, students walking around with samurai swords are not. However you never know what you might see walking around campus (i.e. students enrolled in Kendo classes).

      1. avatar pun&gun says:

        I had a friend here (I go to LU) get the cops called on her for a katana-shaped umbrella. The administration is pretty on-board with Liberty, but we still have some tools in the student body (especially those from northern and/or urban areas).

  11. avatar G Anderson says:

    Robert. With all due respect you need to stay in your lane. Intolerance says, “I don’t agree with you and I’m not going to allow you to hold your opinion.” A view you will find in certain world religions and political actors, but not an attribute of fundamentalist Christians.

  12. avatar joe_thousandaire says:

    The second to last paragraph here is pure poetry. Preach it brother!

  13. avatar Nate in the land of townships says:

    I’m a criminal justice major. We had to do projects on active shooters in one of my classes. After listening to what happened at the Virginia Tech massacre during a 45 minute presentation, I wish were “allowed” to exercise our “right to keep and bear arms in defense of himself and the state” just like “everyone”. The university I’m transferring to allows students to store hunting weapons with campus police, that isn’t good enough.

  14. avatar BobC says:

    The Left has succeeded in demonizing guns in our society. For those too young to know, here is a snapshot of what used to be:

    In 1964, I went off to college at Colorado State University (Ft. Collins, Colorado). Naturally, I took my .22 pistol with me. Since freshmen weren’t allowed to have cars, when I wasn’t target practicing, plinking, or shooting rabbits (which I did with my friends about once a month, on average), I simply left it in my dorm room. I also left my luggage, my clothes, my portable typewriter and books there also. (My friends did the same with their possessions.)

    There wasn’t anything special about the gun — it wasn’t the most expensive item even. The University didn’t care, the dorm staff didn’t care, and the other students didn’t care. No one was obsessed with guns — they were just another possession.

    Did stuff ever get stolen? Occasionally, if someone forgot to lock their dorm room and were gone over a long weekend. I never had anything stolen, but if I had my parent’s home insurance would have reimbursed me and I would have just gone shopping for replacements. The police would have taken a report and I would have listed the gun along with the other things taken. Maybe a pawn shop would spot some of the stuff, otherwise, not much would likely happen. The police would have considered the gun as just a possession, like my typewriter.
    A gun was not a particularly attractive target for thieves, as you could just go down to Sears-Roebuck and buy one for ~$50 or so. I bought my first rifle from them when I was 12.

    Guns are only an obsession where they are banned. Governments only ban guns to make their power (over the population) more secure. Banning guns never does anything to protect the citizens.

    1. avatar Stuki Moi says:

      Beautiful! Thanks!

      And that’s only 50 years ago. Talk about freefall.

  15. avatar the ruester says:

    https://www.change.org/p/universities-suspend-social-justice-in-universities

    Get it up to 50,000 by signing today!

    (and before you call “censorship” this petition will be delivered to the peer review board, not the federal gvt.)

    “Social Justice Science” is the REAL campus killer; just look at MissU…

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Presently over 60,000. Needs about 14,000 to meet the ‘goal.’

      1. avatar the ruester says:

        lol probably by the end of the day. How great is that?

  16. avatar Gary says:

    Robert,

    Don’t read it every day but I know I have read stories/editorials in the NY Post that actually have said positive things about guns and the right of self defense. The virulently anti-gun rights tabloid up there is the Daily News.

  17. avatar ropingdown says:

    I’ll try again:

    The shepherd behind the policy discussed above, favoring gun rights, is Jerry Falwell, Jr, who has endorsed Trump. He apparently thinks the risk is small that DJT will not support the 2A adequately.

  18. avatar Martin Gomez says:

    The radical left-wing Democrats stage provocations and then rally around them endlessly, Alinksy style, to get their agenda passed. When a gay man was killed by his gay lover/drug dealer, they manufactured a hate crime in order to make gays a protected class. Every time a black thug is killed attacking a cop or security guard (but never when blacks kill hundreds of each other over beefs), BLM riots and rallies for special treatment. Blacks, Jews, and Muslims stage fake hate crimes at universities and places of worship to foment antiwhite/anti-Christian sentiment. Several of the best known “mass shootings” have gun control theater written all over them. Policies like Liberty’s while positive on the face could be exploited by deranged anti-2A Democrat extremists for their own ends. The lawless and corrupt president himself could stage an(other) incident in order to capitalize on the reaction.

  19. avatar Flyboy says:

    Robert,

    I have to take issue with your first statement. You are, indeed, a fundamentalist, as am I. You believe in the fundamental truth that the constitution means what it says, and that any necessary clarification can be found the in the founders’ writings on the subject in question.

    That being said, I would prefer that you choose another word than fundamentalist. In the words of Anigo Montoya, “I do not think it means what you think it means.”

  20. avatar pun&gun says:

    Liberty is a great campus to pilot this sort of initiative. We’ve had concealed carry on campus for a few years now (which I have been quite grateful for), but on-campus students have had to store their pistols in their vehicles. Since Liberty maintains a strict dry campus policy, it significantly cuts the risk factor associated with typical college stupidity.

  21. avatar Chris T from KY says:

    The religious south is where the second amendment is strong. The godless or secular west or north east is where it is weak.
    But you do have legal Marijuana in the west and in Washington DC. You made a trade off in the west. Your guns for security free from arrest Marijuana intoxication.

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