“The incident began after the tourist, walking with his niece on the 1300 block of Post Street near Franklin Street, was attacked by a man and a woman about 8:30 p.m.,” sfgate.com reports. “[Paul] Tam attempted to hold onto a messenger bag but was stabbed in the head by the male suspect, according to a police spokesman.” Wait. You couldn’t let tourists arm themselves against attack, could you? Well, the right to keep and bear arms is a natural right, right? Discuss amongst yourselves. Meanwhile, the TTAG tipster who sent the link writes . . .

I’m especially motivated to send this to you since it happened right behind my apartment where my housemates and I regularly take the dogs out. So yeah, even in one of the most expensive cities, in one of most 2A-restricted states, there’s no guarantee of safety. And this happened in front of several people/cars, but everyone was too in shock or scared to do anything.

The murderer remains at large.

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54 Responses to British Tourist Stabbed in the Head Dies: It Should Have Been A Defensive Gun Use?

  1. Good thing our overlords are there to protect us, otherwise he might have been shot.

    • Are knife attacks decriminalized under the Obama Administration’s new harmless crime standards ?

      • SF cops shot a bum with a knife today (before he stabbed anybody) and after hitting him with ERIW a bunch of times……
        Now lets hear the ney sayers talk about how you dont shoot people with knives…. Maybe the tourist should have gone to mental health sensitivity training, then he wouldn’t have to worry about being stabbed in San Francisco.

        • That kind of thinking isnt crazy enough for San Francisco. The crazy people waving around knives and stabbing people are (I s#it you not) refered to as “victims”.

  2. Another argument for permitless carry and no waiting periods for purchase of firearms. A tourist could buy a knife from any sporting goods store, and no one cares that he’s not a resident. And it’s assumed he knows it’s not okay to stab someone with that knife unless he’s in danger. So why is it any different with a gun?

    • I lived in Florida for 3 years on a student visa. As a non-permanente resident, I could not get a CCW. I wouldn’t have minded the 7 days waiting period.

      • The really stupid part, Florida issues non-resident permits to residents of any other state. Just not a non-resident of their own state. May not have applied to your exact situation but it does lend more weight to the obviousness of the situation. Very sorry for you.

  3. To whoever sent this in: Don’t care what the laws are where you’re at, arm yourself, because he will be back in your neighborhood to do it again.

    • I stayed at a place roughly seven blocks from this incident about a month or so ago. The disarmament capital within the Socialist State of Kommifornistan + random, loonies muttering/screaming to the voices in their heads + sanctuary city/state = the need for “immediate threat reduction implements.” Let’s just say that concealed is concealed and leave it at that. The wife and I enjoyed the sights, but I was relieved to move on down the road.

  4. Hard to draw the line on tourists but if they are allowed into a country without red flags how about a temp permit for say…$50.00 or… nothing so they can carry. Would / would not earn the country a few bucks and hopefully prevent something like this.
    My heart and sympathy goes out to his daughter and family.

    • So, it’s moral for a price to be paid for a Natural Right…so long as the .gov gets the profits.

      Got it.

    • We need to stop preventing people from being able to protect themselves, and to start punishing people who break the law.

      If this murderer wasn’t an illegal it’s almost certain he has a record for other crimes and received early release or perhaps even no jail time for.

      People don’t just get up one day and murder someone, it takes practice.

      If there proof that the state doesn’t want to protect you it’s this fact alone. Commit a crime and the state slaps you with all but a token punishment. Follow the law and try and carry a gun to protect yourself and the state has endless ways they come up with to stop you from doing so.

      Why we put up with this is anyones guess.

      • Commit a crime and the state slaps you with all but a token punishment. Follow the law and try and carry a gun to protect yourself and the state has endless ways they come up with to stop you from doing so.”

        {emphasis added}

        Well said. Bears repeating, over and over again, until people get it.

        This is fundamental.

  5. “The murderer remains at large”
    What for he’s in a sanctuary city so it’s all good to move about freely.

  6. Hey, at least his family will have solace he was not shot by one of those evil American guns. I am sure that will make them feel better.

  7. Nothing to see here folks. He was stabbed, not shot so it don’t count. Dollars to donuts it was another “tourist”, this one undocumented.

    • I’ll take that bet. I wager the attacker and his accomplice were locals. Though the only info I have to go on was that they were black and that there are probably more local thugs than foreign ones, even in SF.

      • Absolutely. And to say nothing of the fact that Post and Franklin is pretty near the Tenderloin. For all of the expense of living in SF (as I used to many years ago), there is still a seamy side just around the corner. Folks there sneak out late at night to hit an unsuspecting “atm” (another tourist moron), and then disappear back into its depths.

    • Considering that the vast, vast majority of illegal immigrants are simply overstaying their tourist visas, one could assume that the stabbing victim was likely to do the same. Therefore, the attacker was only doing us all a service ridding the country of another potential drain on our social welfare services, since, you know, illegal immigrants just get piles of cash from the government.

      (I puked in my mouth a little just typing that)

    • A quick correction on this (I have commented on this same misunderstanding repeatedly on TTAG):

      Use of force in self defence is not illegal in the UK. In order to be deemed “justifiable” any force used must be:
      • minimal (no more than needed to stop the threat)
      • reasonable (would the average man/woman think that the use of force was an appropriate response)
      • proportionate (in rough proportion to the threat: eg. don’t shoot someone who is just calling you names)

      However it is illegal to keep any object for the purpose of self defence.

      • “it is illegal to keep any object for the purpose of self defense.” …and what are Yanks missing about English justifiable self defense? Denied the tool necessary for lawful self defense, government mocks its citizens.

        • Not yet, as you legitimately need them for things other than just self defence (eg. walking and holding things).

          Joking aside – while I personally disagree with the law, it is what it is until such time as the government changes it.

          In practice the law is not hugely unreasonable – within its inherent limitations.

          If I’m in my kitchen and somebody breaks in with a weapon, I will almost certainly not be charged (or if charged will likely be acquitted) if I pick up a kitchen knife and use it to defend myself… even if the intruder dies. Because the kitchen knife is not there “for self defence”, but rather because every kitchen has knives in.

          On the other hand, if I’m carrying a kitchen knife in my pocket as I walk around town, and use it to defend myself against an armed attacker who dies as a result of that, I will likely be acquitted of manslaughter (if it’s legit self defence); but I will probably be convicted of possession of an offensive weapon – since there’s no justification under UK law for arming yourself for self defence as you go about your business.

          As I say, personally I think the law is fundamentally flawed, and denies citizens the natural right to defend themselves as effectively as possible.

          But the original comment to which I replied is simply wrong to assert that it’s illegal to defend yourself in the UK.

        • ” Because the kitchen knife is not there “for self defense”, but rather because every kitchen has knives in.”

          Now I know you’re just interpreting the law, so don’t take this as aimed at you, but from an external perspective that’s just insane. You obviously needed a defensive tool because somebody broke into your house, but couldn’t legally own one for (purely) defensive purposes, so you had to rely on whatever was lying around to legally justify defending yourself.

          You might think that’s reasonable within its inherent limitations, but from here it’s boarderline sadistic in practice, especially in light of the UK’s hot burglary statistics.

  8. Like a lion running down a gazelle.. the parallels between hunters running down defenseless prey are stunning.

    In a world where prey are banned from having horns, fangs, talons, or tusks, all you can do is try to outrun the predator.

    I hope you’re fast on your feet.

  9. As someone who has worked or been a tourist in about 40 states over the years some way to have a legal firearm would be very handy.

    But there is NO recognition of licences from one country to another even when I had one of the rare Australian concealed carry licences I could not legally carry in USA

    Went with pepper spray and knife as second choice and tried to be aware at all times

  10. It’s not quite the same, but here in Canada, you don’t have to be a citizen or even live here to get a PAL or RPAL (license) for firearms. That’s mainly to help with hunting, rather than self-defense (as self-defense with firearms, especially conceal carried, is a tricky subject up here). Perhaps something similar could be done for the US, but for self-defense. Safe handling training (this is vital for people who live in nogunsland), basic pistolry training, background check, and then issue a license.

  11. What’s really sad is that people and cars simply drive past while the poor guy is dying in the street. What has our world become…

    • Please do tell just what a disarmed motorist is suppose to do against a man who just murdered another?

      • Run him down and blame a Toyota accelerator pedal?

        I kid.

        I’ll tell the cops I swerved to avoid a cat and accidentally hit the promising young youth who was on his way to college to turn his life around…

  12. Well, he was a Brit, so he probably wouldn’t carry a gun if he had the opportunity. Second, this was SF, so he’d never get the opportunity, absent the passage of a federal law recognizing national concealed carry, because SF does NOT NOT NOT issue CCWs. Third, do we really want people coming over here carrying guns who may bear us ill will? Talk about an open door for terrorists.

  13. Tourists do not vote locally therefore deemed disposable. We are all fodder for the revolution. Resist valiantly with all you have.

  14. I blame AMC’s The Walking Dead and the perpetrator being in shock over the Season Six Finale. THEY are the ones who showed us how easy it is to plunge a knife through the skull into the brain. /sarc

    Seriously, my sincere condolences to the victim and his Family.

    This sad event goes to show, once again, that criminal predators, who value whatever objects they can steal over the life of their victim, will murder at will when the mass of their victims cannot effectively defend themselves.

    Possibly this British man would not have availed himself of any weapon due to the conditioning he has received in his home country, as stated by Gabriel Carter above. Also, likely having no familiarity with firearms, being able to get one in the U.S. would have done him no good. Edged weapon homicides now exceed those by gun in the UK (what a surprise!), so, he might well have been murdered by a knife stab at home.

    All that being acknowledged, it becomes clear that no individual’s life actually matters to those comprising the tyrannical governments that now rule us. To protect themselves and better control us, they will seek, as in the UK, to make it illegal “to keep any object for the purpose of self defence.”

  15. And nary a Self-Defense gun in sight.
    Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.

    Wait. To be fair.
    Is a tourist from another country allowed to carry a firearm in your state?
    does your state recognize the right of a foreign tourist the right to carry a firearm for self-defense?

    I don’t think so.

  16. Since homosexuals closed the last gun store in San Francisco back in October 2015, by taking the cameras out of the glory hole bathroom stalls and putting them in gun stores to spy on honest people, no one can buy a gun in the city. Yes that is correct I said it. I went there.

    And since homosexuals got into everyone’s bedrooms so they could tell people how to store their guns in the bedroom, I know no one is safe including paying foreign tourist in San Francisco.

    Anyone complaining about the above statement please send a link to pictures of support at closing of the last gun store in SF.
    Also how many times have you voted for the open homosexual Tom Ammiano, the one time leader of the California state senate. The same democrat who wrote the law forcing stalking victims wait an extra ten days for a gun purchase. The same Tom Ammiano who is cheered by ten of thousands of people in gay pride parades.
    I wonder how many women have been killed or raped waiting for permission to buy a gun in California.
    Just like in New Jersey where carol bowman was killed still waiting for government permission to buy a gun.

      • Thanks
        I thought I saw men holding hands wearing bed sheets and hoods carrying a large wooden cross and gasoline cans.

      • Why yes I did.
        I also gotten my hi point gun with them extra big mags they make now holden 20 bullets. It was all I could a ford since I work tree different jobs.

        As a rich person I’m sure you have several AR15 rifles. How many machine guns do you have? Five or six? I wish I had the money and time like you do to shoot those guns every few days.
        The rich like you have so such fun.
        I’m jealous.

    • Freedom of speach: My thoughts, homosexuality is an unnatural act.Gay parades should not be allowed,kids dont need to see that. Same sex marriage is B.S., and same sex partners making out in public should be arrested. Go home, close your curtains, I dont care if you make love to a goat then. This country anymore, whew.

    • One more thing about Tom Ammiano the ex policeman. He was like every other homosexual LEO or heterosexual LEO in SF. He never supported the gun civil rights of the black panther party for self defense. You don’t have to be a nice person to buy and own guns. Being nice is not a requirement of the second amendment.
      Nor does he support any law abiding black person having guns. As a cop did he rape any young boys? Tom Ammiano is the enemy of freedom.

  17. The problem with allowing tourists to carry is they would most likely come from a zero-gun background. I feel they would be very likely to have a negligent discharge because of “meddling” with the gun unnecessarily (because of the novelty factor to them). Plus you’d have complete dolts taking selfies with loaded guns or having pretend gunfights in their hotel room – again with loaded guns.

    Yeah, not a good idea … unless they can show that they can be responsible with guns through an intensive course, or show that they have already handled firearms.

    Americans have been exposed to guns over years (unless they’re the reclusive Californian types who shriek at the sight of a pop-tart shaped gun – they won’t be interested in carrying anyway), tourists from gun-free countries have not. Most Americans already have a safe respect for guns.

    • Everything you said could be applied to arguing why people from New York City shouldn’t be allowed to carry a gun in Vermont. You could use the same arguments for why foreigners shouldn’t be allowed to buy and carry a knife. The same argument could be used to justify not allowing tourists from the US to buy weed in Amsterdam. And the bottom line is they’re all bull; individuals are responsible for they’re own actions, in every scenario. Stupidity has its own consequences, and ignorance of the law is no defense, as plenty of Americans have found themselves arrested in other countries for things that would be no big deal in America.

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