Texas gun rally (courtesy statesman.com)

“A veto override will make West Virginia the ninth state to allow gun owners to carry without a license,” thetrace.org‘s announces. “At least 19 others are considering similar legislation.” The story beneath the subhead make for some delicious reading, as writer Mike Spies struggles to put a negative spin on a positive development for gun rights. (A slightly negative spin; The Trace’s page rankings and thus traffic depend on avoiding being ID’ed by Google gatekeepers as anti-gun agitprop.) Here’s what Spies spies with his little eye when it comes to the move away from gun control . . .

In some states, allowing gun owners to carry concealed without a permit is seen by supporters as a natural extension of older laws authorizing the open carry of firearms without a license: If the permit requirement is leading some gun owners to choose open carry, and if open carry tends to lead to more problematic public spectacles than concealed carry, then making it easier to carry concealed solves that problem.

Where’d he come up with that one? Not only haven’t I heard that argument, it doesn’t make any sense. Excluding the occasional Chipotle ninja, open carry hasn’t led to “more problematic spectacles.” Certainly not here in Texas, where zero you-know-whats were given when permitted open carry became Lone Star law.

To be fair — which is what The Trace must appear to be — Spies’ article includes quotes from actual Constitutional Carry advocates, balanced, of course, by gun control groupthink. Like this . . .

The push for permitless carry is part of the larger movement that seeks to establish new norms for the carrying of handguns in American society, wherein the ideal is a country that places no restrictions on gun owners. Proponents believe the mere existence of the Second Amendment nullifies the necessity for a permit requirement. “People don’t want to pay a fee to the state for a right that is guaranteed by the constitution,” Mike Mosher, a police officer in Kansas who owns a firearms training company called Tactical Simulations Solutions, tells The Trace.

Some supporters go farther, framing the freedom to carry guns in public for self defense as divinely given. Back in February, Senator Blair struck this note, arguing that his bill was an extension of the “God-given right to be able to protect yourself.”

In Kansas, a concealed carry permit costs $132.50, and the training fees can cost between $75 and $150. Last July, the state stopped requiring lawful gun owners to procure licenses should they wish to carry concealed handguns. According to Mosher, the new law has improved his business.

“What we’re finding is people don’t mind paying for training classes,” he says. “In fact, they want to learn about safety and decision-making. It’s not good enough to carry a gun if you don’t know the proper time to present and shoot it.”

Law enforcement tends to agree with that sentiment, while arriving at the opposite policy prescription. In West Virginia, the Executive Director of the West Virginia Sheriff’s Association said that the state’s mandatory training requirement is “paramount” to ensuring public safety. “Someone really needs to know what happens on the business end of that gun. It’s not a piece of jewelry and it’s not an adornment.”

By issuing permits, police are also able to keep track of how many people are walking around with firearms. After Kansas became a permitless state, a gun owner in the state criticized the law and the NRA for supporting it. “Why in the world would they bypass the opportunity to have permit holders on record?” he asked a reporter from the Wichita Eagle.

Speaking of The Creator…God, I love winning.

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50 Responses to The Trace: Open Carry Driving Move to Constitutional Carry

    • I thought the constitutional carry law was dumb shit. A felony for “possession” of brass knuckles? Come on. Can’t carry a concealed pocket knife over 3.5in? Come on. Lame garbage.

  1. The push for permitless carry is part of the larger movement that seeks to establish new norms for the carrying of handguns in American society, wherein the ideal is a country that places no restrictions on gun owners.

    Isn’t the old norm 1780 open unrestricted carry (ownership in general) and gun control a relatively new concept NFA 1930s? And open/concealed/constitutional carry a redirect towards the original intent of the 2A, i.e. SHalll not be infringed.

  2. Like I’ve stated before, they’re not afraid that something will happen with permit-less carry. They’re afraid that nothing will happen with permit-less carry, thus nullifying their argument.

    • They could just look to the constitutional carry states of Arizona, Alaska, Arkansas, Kansas, Maine, Vermont and Wyoming. Oh, wait… I guess that invalidates their argument. None of those places are “crime infested.”

      • Just look at all the blood running in the streets of those states! You want to know why Alaska’s population is so low? The constitutional carriers have killed everyone! /sarc

      • Wyoming is NOT “constitutional carry,” since you must be a Wyoming resident to carry without a permit.

        • You have a point, but I think it’s safe to say the majority of people in the state are residents.

    • Yes why aren’t we calling out the antis by name. There shave been several on record opposing laws. They claimed blood would run in the street. We should remind the public of those claims.

  3. Wait a minute–you mean there are people out there with presumably functioning brain cells that have not already defined The Trace as anti-gun agitprop? And they work for Google?

  4. “Why in the world would they bypass the opportunity to have permit holders on record?”

    Let’s apply this to any other constitutional right and see what you think…

    • I was going to call BS on the quote from an unnamed individual until clicking through to the Kansas.com story. Now I’m left with the question of if are there really that many veterans who believe their countrymen don’t have the right to be armed?

      • If they had anti leanings before joining up, I can see them bemoaning their training putting them into an elite class with regards to firearms. Remember the electee from Mass who was a former Seal claiming his training mass him able to teach someone to change a magazine in an ar15 “in 5 seconds”?

        Most vets I’ve known are pro civilian gun ownership, though.

    • “By issuing permits, police are also able to keep track of how many people are walking around with firearms.”

      And that gem. The stupid in that statement is so densely packed that it threatens to collapse into a singularity of willful idiocy.

  5. Too bad Florida lost the battle on Open Carry. I would love to be able to shove that little factoid don’t the throats of the Illinois legislature (preferably along with a copy of the Unites States Constitution.)

  6. Lacking a tyrant, with all power eminating from the people, The United Staes of America survives through it’s ability to change according to the will of the people. The genius of the authors of The Constitution over 2 centuries ago never ceases to amaze me.

  7. Constitutional carry is going to cost the states a little money and a lot of control. Neither makes them happy.

  8. What I want is for the courts to tell Kommieforinastan to take their Unconstitutional ‘laws’ and cram them where the sun doesn’t shine. Of course that will mean that their beloved Illegals will wind up having issues with their asset redistribution activities.

    • That and I’d like to see a new president, arm troops, and March deep into sanctuary city territory, and take it back by force, with the removal of the incumbent local, city, county and state governments that enabled this notion.

      If secession frim the union is illegal, so are sanctuary cities. Which is just another form of it.

  9. “In some states, allowing gun owners to carry concealed without a permit is seen by supporters as a natural extension of older laws authorizing the open carry of firearms without a license: If the permit requirement is leading some gun owners to choose open carry, and if open carry tends to lead to more problematic public spectacles than concealed carry, then making it easier to carry concealed solves that problem.”

    In California this makes perfect sense. In 1968, after an armed protest by the Black Panthers at the State Capitol, then Governor Reagan signed a law banning open carrying of loaded firearms, leaving it possible to openly carry unloaded firearms in urban areas. For obvious reasons, few bothered to do so. It wasn’t long before “may issue” for CCW licenses became “essential no issue” for CCWs in all large urban areas of the state except Sacramento. In 2013, responding to an inability to carry lawfully, a group or groups of people started a movement calling for Open Unloaded Carry demonstrations in these urban areas (mostly Southern California and San Jose). The soccer moms were appalled and frightened. The called their legislators (or had their husbands do it), and the Legislature was happy to oblige, passing a law outlawing the open carry of unloaded handguns, and the following year, unloaded long guns, in all incorporated areas of the state. Open carry therefore had a direct and negative effect on the rights of most California residents to bear arms.

    This issue is at the core of the Peruta v. Gore (Sheriff of San Diego) case. The open carry bans were passed while the case was pending in the Court of Appeal, which led the first panel to conclude that the desire to carry a firearm for self-defense was sufficient “just cause” for issuance of a concealed carry license, thus converting the State into a virtual “shall issue” jurisdiction. But before the ink was dry, the Court itself granted an en banc review, and argument was heard on June 16, 2015. We are still waiting for the en banc panel’s decision, though hope is fleeting, as the panel, due to the makeup of the entire circuit, had a majority of judges appointed by democrats, and some were vehemently antigun during argument, to say nothing that the Chief Judge was the lone dissenter on the original panel decision. While it has not been pending for determination all that long (as the court goes), the pessimists are already predicting that the delay is due to the majority’s fruitless search for a palatable reason to overrule the original ruling.

    • “the pessimists are already predicting that the delay is due to the majority’s fruitless search for a palatable reason to overrule the original ruling.”

      Meaning they will go ahead and rule that, “gee they really don’t want to, but, by gosh, the Constitution says the right to keep and bear says “shall not be infringed”, or say, “screw it, to hell with what the Constitution says” and just do like that Chicago suburb decision that said feeling unsafe was reason enough to ban?

  10. “Feelings” is what killed open carry here in Florida. Yet again for another year. If it had been allowed to be voted on in the State Senate. We would have had it any day soon.. The Governor would have signed it.
    That part time RINO in Miami a$$wipe has got to go.

    • What really needs to go is the notion someone needs to ask permission and pay a fee to the state to excercise a right guaranteed by the 2A. Name another constitutionally protected freedom that the state gets away with doing that with. Maybe if people had to take a class, pay a fee, wait for a permit to vote, we wouldn’t have stupid laws in Florida like that.

      • If there is no licensing system, then NRA would go out of business. Creating a license with background checks so the cops can object if you’re not a good old boy is what NRA provides to the police unions.

        Look at what NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde did in Illinois’ 2013 carry bill: criminal penalties of 6 MONTHS or 1 YEAR in jail for hundreds of gun-free zones, plus the newly created “crime” of Duty to Inform, so police criminals can stop, harass, set up and kill armed citizens LEGALLY. Want to exercise your right to go armed in IL? Just give up your right to remain silent and your right to be treated as innocent until proven guilty.

        Why wouldn’t you want to tell a cop you’re armed? Aren’t you a Good Old Boy? We’re all on the same side! Yes, the retarded hicks from southern IL are really that stupid. Criminal penalties plus Duty to Inform in IL’s carry bill create lots of “business” for the cops, courts and lawyers, and that’s what NRA is all about- money. Open carry doesn’t make money for NRA or provide job security for lobbyist scum like Vandermyde to “fix” the garbage bills NRA writes.

        • What the hell are you talking about? You post this same thing all the time. For starters, the NRA is not a business, so they can’t go out of business. Secondly, there isn’t really a duty to inform in Illinois unless you are specifically asked by the officer in question if you are carrying a gun. And while that’s not the best situation, it’s a damn sight better than having no carry law at all. If we’d taken a hard-line stance on the carry law here in Illinois when the court forced it we wouldn’t have one, and all the local municipalities with home rule would make their own, and it’d be a giant fustercluck.

        • You really are a special kind of (personal insult deleted) aren’t you. Yes, all us downstate idiots are totally responsible for Il not having perfect Concealed Carry laws on the books since all the Chicago Democrat’s were just clamouring to pass such wonderful bills like the one defeated the day before the current one. That little gem would have given us the same kind of firearms freedom so blissfully enjoyed by citizens of NY, NJ, and HI. Instead that stupid downstater Phelps (a Democrat, amazingly enough), who has spent DECADES trying to get a CC bill through the Il house, threw the other Democrats enough crumbs to give them a bill they could choke down. Kicking and screaming against it the whole time.

          Is the Il law perfect? Far from it. Is it the worst of the 50 state’s? Not even close. And it wouldn’t have happened without the tireless efforts of Phelps, Vandermyden, and Vilinda and others in the IRA.

          I’m sick of your constant attacks on those we owe such a huge debt. I watched every hearing, every debate, and every vote. Funny, I never saw you testifying before any of the commitees as this bill was sheperded into passage.

          You criticizing Vandermyde is like a rat hissing at a lion. He, with plenty of help, accomplished what many said could not be done. With all your pissing and moaning, you’ve never accomplished anything half as noteworthy in your entire miserable, little life.

  11. They’re working on it for MO, 2nd year in a row. Failed last year, so this year I hope that there are sufficient legislators in both the representative and senate sides that will indicate a veto proof majority. The gov will still veto it if it gets to his desk, but if there’s enough legislators in MO with the backbone and nads to pass it, then they can override that regressive Nixon. Unfortunately I think there are too many nutless wonders in both houses to kill it again. It may have to wait until next year and a repubican gov.

  12. “Some supporters go farther by framing the right to carry guns in public as divinely given”.

    Well, yeah! The laws of nature, which are the laws of G-d, have given all creatures the ability to defend their lives, whether with fleet of foot, or with lethal fang, claws and horn.

    If even these “simple” creatures were born with the “right” to defend their lives, and born with the lethal tools to do so; how can anyone argue that human beings, as children of nature/G-d have any less the right to defend our own lives, with equally lethal tools?

    • That’s a very good point. Haven’t seen it used before but it definitely provides evidence to use with people who can’t see the self evidence of self defense as natural right.

      • This is a good one to use on progressives, since they are the ones that worship Mother Earth with her plant and animal kingdoms as a living being called Gaia.

        They also hold up the tribal people’s, the hunter and gatherers that still exist as the most pure form of being in touch with spirit.

        Of course, if the progressives tried to live among these tribal people with their “free love” , same sex relationships and their hatred of carrying personal weapons and of warfare; if they weren’t killed outright as perverts, degenerates and cowards, they would driven out of the tribe after a thorough and complete beating.

    • I would add to your excellent prose: The not so “equally lethal tool” that “nature/G-d” provided man with is his relatively huge brain. That brain afforded us the ability to create tools for survival as opposed to any of the built in ones (claws, great speed, etc.) That brain came up with the thrown rock, swinging stick, sharpened stick, sharpened rock, stick with a sharpened rock, rock axe and then the bow and arrow. Then the metallurgists got into the game and this brain created a straight up spear, the sword, bigger spears, the axe, mace and the crossbow. Then some rich jack a$$ covered himself in metal armor, so that brain applied gunpowder to the problem and we got the hand cannon, the matchlock, muskets, the kentucky rifle, pistols, breech loaders, bolt action, semi auto, full auto and then rail guns and lasers. As long as we exist on a planet where the chief activity (for all creatures) is competition for resources, then it will never end and you actually owe your current all too comfortable civilization to firearms and worse.

      We’re just tool makers trying to survive and the firearm is currently the best way to do that…and still have time left over to do other things, like farm, explore and post useless shite on twitter.

      When I whip that one out on an anti, it usually shuts them up for a bit.

  13. 9 states ??

    Oklahoma is 4 outsite residenzler from constitunal carry states only and wyoming only for it s owned residenzler”s …….

    Idaho and Montana are “only” rural but not statewide ……….

    Real States

    1.) Arkansas
    2.) Arizona
    3:I Alaska
    4.) Kansas
    5.) Maine
    6.) Vermont
    7.) West Virginia

    But 2 real states more then it s more as may issue 🙂
    And don t forget at end the 9th court rouling make commiefornia and hawai shall issue in future.

  14. “In some states, allowing gun owners to carry concealed without a permit is seen by supporters as a natural extension of older laws authorizing the open carry of firearms without a license: If the permit requirement is leading some gun owners to choose open carry, and if open carry tends to lead to more problematic public spectacles than concealed carry, then making it easier to carry concealed solves that problem.”

    It feels like that should have a period instead of a colon. As independent statements, I think both are true. Constitutional carry is seen by many as an extension of historic jurisprudence. Permitting concealed carry means that open carry is either as easy as, or easier than, the hidden option – leading to more people OCing. I think it is reasonable to say that people are more likely to freak out with OC than CC, since even one person in a thousand is more than the zero of “hidden means hidden”. As a result, if you want more CC (and less freaking out) it makes sense to make it easier to allow constitutional carry.

    As a clarification, the second clause becomes a too long reach to support their (unclear) conclusion.

    So, they are right and they make sense. They just need a better editor.

  15. If you want unlicensed open carry, keep NRA out of it. NRA did NOTHING in Illinois for 40 years, but after attorney Alan Gura & SAF took Otis McDonald to the Supreme Court in 2010, NRA hired former Solicitor General Paul Clement to barge in and steal 10 minutes out of Gura’s 30 minute oral argument time in front of SCOTUS. Thanks NRA!

    Having a black man like Otis McDonald as lead plaintiff made NRA look trendy, like they care about black people in Chicago. Maybe not, when the U.S. Federal Appeals Court in Chicago overturned Illinois concealed weapon statute in 2012, NRA contract lobbyist Todd Vandermyde fell all over himself bending over for the police unions to put Duty to Inform in Rep. Brandon Phelps HB183 “NRA backed” carry bill.

    The anti-gun Chiefs of Police opposed concealed carry in IL for 40 years, but Vandermyde cut a good old boy deal with them so cops can kill armed citizens LEGALLY. That’s what rats do, sell out. Maybe the racist hick retards who make up most NRA members in IL don’t really care about Otis McDonald and black people in Chicago. Most of them are too stupid to figure out that Vandermyde is the worst enemy of IL gun rights in 50 years, and Chris Cox & Chuck Cunningham at ILA pay him.

    • That’s exactly what I thought tonight as I removed my CZ from it’s holster after carrying across four counties in Il. I’d had to stash it in the glovebox at the VA (federal law). Carried in and out of several other businesses. And if not for that damn Vandermyde, I would have been able to carry it exactly NOWHERE. Just like the last 50 years.

      You really are a maroon, aren’t you?

      • “That’s exactly what I thought tonight…” Do you possess the capability to think? Are you one of the fat turds in the IGOLD pictures with the duck dynasty beards and the yellow T-shirts? Must be tough to make the quarter mile walk with your gout acting up and ten pounds of undigested red meat in your gut. Never saw so many pre-diabetic aging baby boomers in my life outside Springfield. You guys should combine with Weight Watchers and make the IGOLD a power walking event for weight loss. Hire Vandermyde to be your spokesman for that too. At least that way you could lose a few pounds if you can’t pass a decent carry bill.

        The state Reps. are looking out their windows laughing at you, wondering why the ISRA retards are too stupid to figure out it’s the NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde selling out their lives to the police unions, while you clowns wave the flag and beat your chest about the Constitution. As if you could read past a G.E.D. level.

        FYI if you’re going for the Mike Rowe look with the grey beard, Valinda Rowe is one the people who used and betrayed Otis McDonald with Duty to Inform. But that’s okay, DTI will only affect black people in Chicago anyway, so who cares?

  16. Back when I lived in the Democratic People’s Socialist Republic of Illinois, the NRA actually told supporters of an ISRA demonstration at the state Capitol to stay home, because if we protested, “it wouldn’t leave our allies in the Illinois House and Senate anywhere to retreat” (whatever the hell that means!). I didn’t re-join the NRA for years after that.

  17. Richard Pearson of ISRA (Illinois State Rifle Association) actively opposed the IGOLD (IL Gun Owners Lobby Day) march in Springfield for years, and tried to sabotage the grassroots people who applied for street permits.

    ISRA & Pearson didn’t lift a finger to promote concealed carry for 40 years. After Pearson had some involvement in conning Otis McDonald into signing on for the SAF suit against the City of Chicago, Pearson now thinks concealed carry was his idea all along.

    I attended an ISRA annual convention circa mid-2000s and asked Pearson what they were going to do about concealed carry. Pearson, with the usual drink in hand, explained to me that ISRA had a lot of members that were hunters, and they simply couldn’t become a “single issue” group. As the Great Helmsman of ISRA, he had to represent all his membership. ISRA traditionally has been composed of mummified old farts two steps away from a wheelchair who wield double barrel shotguns.

    Pearson is an insurance salesman in Chatsworth, Illinois, an aging one-horse town whose tallest building is the grain bin next to the railroad track. When you call ISRA world headquarters, you are calling Pearson’s insurance office, and his secretaries are doing double duty answering ISRA phone lines. One ringy-dingy. Pearson is a buffoon with Bryl Cream in his hair and a Masonic ring on his finger who could not punch his way out of a paper bag. Mediocre in every way.

    Illinois was the backwater of gun rights for so long, then it got thrust into the spotlight when Moore v. Madigan came down out of nowhere and forced the legislature to pass a carry bill in 2013. Look at some of the comments above from the rubes who think Pearson is a “hero.” All he knows how to do is cut deals and lose, then run away and tell the rubes it’s the fault of “the Chicago politicians.”

    The people who pay ISRA are never going to be more than what they are: losers. They simply do not have the education, class, and most of all I.Q. to take on state Reps., the Supreme Court (ISRA flubbed Friedman v. Highland Park) or match wits with a professional lobbyist like Todd Vandermyde and walk away without their pockets turned inside out and a headache the morning after.

  18. In Florida, you can completely legally do some provocative protesting. Here’s how:

    1. Openly wear your spare magazines.
    2. Carry your spare magazines (or nothing) inside a pistol shaped holster that closes with a lid, such as one designed for the P38 pistol, sold on Amazon.
    3. Wear a hat or t-shirt stating you are lawfully armed.
    4. Conceal your pistol in a fanny-pack that has a graphic of a pistol on it.
    5. Do these things on public property where you cannot be trespassed merely for being armed, at large festivals. Embarrass the lawmakers that denied your right to openly carry!
    http://www.PursuitOfPatriotism.Blogspot.com

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