Crouching Tiger, Hidden Idiot

“I shot a gun for the first time and decided to share my initial thoughts about it,” Shane Fazen writes at his YouTube channel. “I talk about how difficult it is to be accurate, how to jam a gun by squeezing the barrel, the tendency to aim down, and a few other interesting points that led me to believe that unless you’re a skilled shooter and practice force-on-force combatives, then guns are not quintessential.” I don’t think that word means what he thinks it means. Don’t crouch down when under fire? Shame on Shane.

comments

  1. avatar jwm says:

    2 things. Shane is young and some kind of martial artist. In the 70’s at camp pendleton there was a hand to hand combat instructor, had some degree of black belt, that was found dead in the street with 3 bullet holes in his body. The young always think they’re invinceble and have all the answers.

    They aren’t and don’t.

    Second thing and this is purely personal. Can’t take a white guy in dreadlocks seriously. Just can’t.

    1. avatar Reggie says:

      Didn’t Bruce Lee carry a gun? It’s nice to have options.

      1. avatar peirsonb says:

        Bruce Lee believed a fight wasn’t over until the other guy couldn’t come at you again. Eye raking, junk punches, kick them when they’re down, and, if necessary, a gun.

      2. avatar 16V says:

        Bruce Lee very much carried a gun.

      3. avatar Cliff H says:

        I believe in the beginning of the movie “Enter the Dragon”, while they are trying to recruit Bruce Lee to go to the contest and get the bad guy with his martial arts skills his first question was, “Why you don’t just shoot him?”

      4. avatar TravisP says:

        Nowadays you don’t go around on the street kicking people, punching people — because if you do (makes gun shape with hand), well that’s it — I don’t care how good you are.
        Bruce Lee interview on the Pierre Berton Show (1971)

      5. avatar Silo says:

        Yup Bruce carried a .357 mag. “whenever out in public”

        He also had a pretty good collection of WWII rifles according to his friends

        1. avatar WRH says:

          It makes perfect sense; Bruce believed in using the most effective methods possible to defend oneself. A gun is exactly that.

    2. avatar Joshua says:

      “Second thing and this is purely personal. Can’t take a white guy in dreadlocks seriously. Just can’t.”

      +1 except its not just a personal thing, its ingrained in every sane persons DNA. Dreadlocks suck period, but are especially heinous on white boys, and even worse on white girls. Only a few black people in history ever rocked them right anyway, Bob Marley, that dude from Bad Brains and…that’s about it…I can’t think of a single white boy who wore them well. I Had a friend with dreads, they stunk and gave him chronic headaches, you can’t lay down on them comfortably. Anyone who wears them and tell you its all good is in denial, especially white boys.

      1. avatar Joshua says:

        Dreads are the ultimate ironic fashion statement. People grow them to be edgy and free and wind up becoming prisoner to them.

  2. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    I had an uncle who was a Jujitsu instructor. He had someone come into his dojo with a gun. Although he tore the guy up real bad he was still able to kill him, and kill himself afterwards. Hand to gun is not a form of combat I would want to attempt.

    I will say it’s good he is trying to understand what he is facing with a gun, but he seems to think he needs to shoot all the rounds into a single hole to have lethal accuracy for some reason; His groupings are likely more than enough for “combat accurate” and would certainly be lead on target if he was even close to center mass. I would think it would possibly tighten up a bit more with a few more boxes of ammo too just because he seems to be over analyzing the recoil.

    And yes, criminals do practice their skills with weapons. The range here has all sorts of signs up that say no felons allowed on the range.

    Lastly, my thought is this; If you’re putting all this effort and thought into having the best personal defense skills at your disposal, why not back them up with some of the best personal defense tools available?

    1. avatar BDub says:

      Tools don’t need tools, they have themselves.

    2. avatar THC says:

      Range……, and the range says, no long haired hippies need apply, so I tucked my hair up under my hat, an I went in an shot him in the balls.

    3. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      “And yes, criminals do practice their skills with weapons. The range here has all sorts of signs up that say no felons allowed on the range.”

      Huh?

      Does the range there do criminal history background checks before accepting money for a service provided? I kind of doubt that.

      It seems that those “Felon Free Zone” signs are nothing more than feelz analogous to “Gun Free Zone” signs.

      Personally, I wouldn’t brag about it as if it were some sort of pentagram warding off the evil felon-spirits.

      1. avatar Andrew Lias says:

        If there’s a sign, someone probaly did it…………………….

    4. Some old fashion professional criminals practice their firearms skills but your average gangbanger doesn’t even the gun properly. You are far more likely to encounter a gangbanger than a pro. If the pro wants to do you harm you probably won’t even notice him until he takes you out. Pro tip. The old fashion pro won’t be wearing a hoodie and have gang rats.

  3. avatar Benny the Jew says:

    It doesn’t sound like he’s bashing guns or gun owners; he’s simply showing how you could theoretically defend against a shooter if you’re unarmed and haven’t high-tailed it. His tone sounds matter-of-fact, not fake-scared or condescending.
    I don’t know how good or practical his advice is here, but it seems to me like he’s just trying to share information, not turn anyone pro- or anti-gun.

    1. avatar DisThunder says:

      Agreed;After actually watching the video, I don’t think there was a dedicated anti-gun feeling to it. Not the best informed, but he clearly at least is making an effort to understand. Just not quite getting some of it.

      He is right about one thing though; guns are certainly not unbeatable. It’s not a bad idea at all to increase your options.

    2. avatar JasonM says:

      I drew the same conclusion. He was merely saying that facing a gun isn’t a 100% certainty of death, including some tips for an unarmed person to use against a gun wielder.
      As gun owners who might have to confront a criminal who is a skilled unarmed fighter, we should learn from his advice, but in the opposite direction (e.g. keep the other guy’s mitts off your slide).

      One caveat: the warning against crouching made no sense. Crouching is bad because it’s static (I’m of the opinion that one should always be in cover or moving to cover), unless it’s behind cover, in which case it can be good. The fact that an attacker might flinch shouldn’t factor into your defenses.

  4. avatar John_inTX says:

    So… Don’t crouch down and grab the slide of the bad guys gun. That will keep you safe. ?

  5. avatar gs650g says:

    So he sucks at shooting. Has no bearing on me.

  6. avatar kenneth says:

    Never grab an opponents firearm by the barrel(or the slide either!) thinking that will save you. It will only make it easy for him to perforate you.
    It is possible to tie up a revolver by grabbing the cylinder, thus stopping it from indexing, but only if the hammer is down to start with. It is also possible to put a semiauto out of battery by slapping the muzzle rearward. Most guns lack the power in the mainspring to put the gun back into battery without the momentum of the slide moving forward.
    But these techniques are far too chancy and require too many conditions to align, to rely upon in an emergency.
    Young man, forget such fanciness and instead, practice moving the opponent’s firearm off target to his left(assuming him to be right handed) with your left hand, and then follow up with a quick hand to hand technique before he can get back on target. If you can get his right hand by the wrist with your left thumb in the center of the back of his hand, the fight is over, and you have already won…

    1. avatar Chris says:

      Actually it is statistically better to grab the barrel further back the better as you are pushing the firearm away from your body simultaneously moving the opposite direction strike the attacker with free hand and then use that hand to hold the attackers wrist use the barrel/slide as a lever to strip it from the attacker. Easier to show than to explain. But going for to wrist first with one hand may allow the attacker enough angle of movement to point the barrel back towards you

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      “But these techniques are far too chancy and require too many conditions to align, to rely upon in an emergency”

      Exactly. In an emergency, you should first shoot him once or twice, then proceed with these other, more esoteric, suggestions.

      1. avatar Chris says:

        All techniques have risk, but if I have a chance to control a deadly weapon I will go that route, say I draw and miss or drop my gun or even if it gets snagged the attackers gun is already pointed at a vital area, or even if the attacker pulls the trigger due to the pain of getting shot. The goal is to survive not kill the other guy, but it may be required. To me and my family it doesn’t matter if I killed the guy if I died too. a gun is a great equalizer, but it is not the end all be all. If you solely depend on your gun for self-defense I feel sorry for you. I have met a number of people that do feel that way or they ignore their body because they have a gun. The first thing you must do if a weapon is against your body is remove the immediate threat, it doesn’t matter if it’s a gun, a knife, or a chain around your neck. For the knife it’s the blade against your skin, the chain is the blocked airflow and blood flow, the gun is a line extended from the barrel. If you don’t remove the immediate threat it can cost you your life in the process of trying to defend it.

  7. avatar Vhyrus says:

    Hmm… good points Shane! But, just in case, let’s get another martial artist’s take on firearms. How about… Jet Li?

    “A gun outdoes years of martial arts training in a split second. Like I’ve said many times before, it is important to differentiate between movies and reality. The hero in movies may be able to knock the gun off his opponent and save the day, but in real life – probably that is not the case.”

    Ooooh…. I think I’m gonna take his word on it, buddy. Nothing personal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Li

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      Yep, a gun is a great equalizer. It’s the same story that rendered knights obsolete.

      1. avatar Omer Baker says:

        +1 Definitely a great equalizer.

        On a similar note, I work with a guy who has a story from when he was in the army. My coworker is a good size guy who can hold his own, stories of him picking up other guys by their ankles are well known. He was in the bar one night when his buddy was getting worked over pretty good and decided to help. The other guy winning the fight, and being quite a bit smaller than my coworker, used a pressure point behind my coworker’s ear and rendered his arm useless, then said “I don’t think we need to continue this, do you?” My coworker, being well known for his quick wit and knowing he was in well over his head, replied “Well, as long as you’re backing down.” That made him a believer in martial arts, and it’s just a great story.

    2. avatar 16V says:

      Sorry, someone has to do it.

      1. avatar Mecha75 says:

        Yup. an improvised scene due to Ford having a severe flu during that shoot caused them to scrap the whip vs sword fight in favor of a more realistic gun vs sword fight. And as such became one of the most iconic and incredibly awesome movie scenes ever put to film.

  8. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    Sure if the bad guy gets close enough to grab the slide he can cause me to have a failure to feed, but I am willing to count on him letting go once once I put a round into him. At that point, rack the slide and fire any follow up shots needed. I think this guy is way too impressed with whatever martial art he practices and feels the need to justify.

    1. avatar JasonM says:

      Or just shoot a revolver. Let him grab the barrel. All it will do is burn his hand.

  9. avatar ThomasR says:

    The guy is.a pretty good shot, especially if it was his first time.

    He doesn’t seem to be a hoplophobe, at least from this Youtube video.

  10. avatar Reggie Browning says:

    Yeah. Here is the thing about that. He was hitting the target and it was way above a crouching position. Even if the criminals do shoot low, they’re not going to be shooting into the ground. Even then, taking a bullet to the leg will likely result in dangerous blood loss and possibly even death. I’m not tactician but this guy doesn’t really sound like he is either.

  11. avatar Don says:

    To paraphrase a phrase I heard in this very space and love dearly: “Minute of bad guy is good enough.”

  12. avatar Joel says:

    I know several people who are extremely skilled martial artists. They all carry a gun.

  13. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Why did I just watch that?
    Now I feel stoopider

    1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Well, you jacked up the view count on the youtube channel of a second-rate martial artist and third-rate youtuber.

      I’m sure he appreciates that.

      1. avatar neiowa says:

        Perhaps wannaberastaman can take his new googlebucks and get a haircut.

    2. avatar NoNamesOnTheNet says:

      Thanks… Now I’m gonna have ‘Slightly Stoopid’ stuck in my head for the rest of the gooddamn day…

  14. avatar pod says:

    In one of my classes we learned the “grab the slide” trick, but only as a novelty. If you grab the slide you best be ready to follow it up with some pretty devastating H2H, a blade, or a gunshot of your own. Though if you have a gun on you, you should probably take the shot at more than bad breath distance if possible.

    Are guns beatable? Sure. No self-defense art, and certainly no weapon system is perfect. You can be beaten down and/or disarmed if the conditions are right. The trick with anything is to practice, of course. If you are learning how to use a gun, learn how to use it and deploy it so it gives you the most advantage. Don’t let your opponent get to a distance where a disarm is a possibility. If he’s 7-10 yards away and coming for you, fire.
    If it becomes a fair fight, that’s a mistake.

  15. avatar Frank Masotti says:

    Um the “aim down” occurs when you are a first time shooter and are scared about the kick. Most if not all of the criminals out there using guns in their crimes are not that way.

    1. avatar JasonM says:

      Based on the anecdotal evidence, I’d conclude they’re not very skilled with their guns.
      I remember seeing some security video on this site where the criminal was shooting a handgun in the high gangsta’ position, and driving the gun forward with each shot (I think it adds more energy to each bullet, like Happy Gilmore’s running golf swing).

      And they do seem to hit more innocent bystanders than even the NYPD.

  16. avatar Milsurp Collector says:

    Anti-gun martial artists are funny people. One bit of dialogue in some Youtube comments years ago had me in stitches and went something like this:

    Troll: “Most competent martial artists, or even basic street fighters, learn to disarm an armed opponent. Guns, clubs, kitchen knives, it makes no difference. I can close distance, swiftly remove your weapon, and have you on the floor in three fluid movements. Your trigger finger would be broken in the process and you’d also be pinned. What could you possibly do next?”

    Random gun owner: “Remove the .357 Ruger LCR from my ankle holster with the opposite hand and turn your chest cavity into a modern art masterpiece. What does your Far-East wizardry suggest you do now?”

    The resident martial arts expert shut up after that.

    1. avatar PPGMD says:

      Or the bad guy just shoots them before they can close the distance.

    2. avatar GRW says:

      Na-uh I’d have already deftly taken the slide off and rammed it into your neck.

      Then i’d ride my unicorn home to bang all the prom queens, all of them.

      1. avatar THC says:

        At a trot or gallop.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          My unicorn has fairy wings.

    3. avatar LongPurple says:

      One of the guys I went through boot camp with had a black belt in Judo. That was mentioned to a new DI coming in to our platoon. His reaction was :

      “As long as I have a .45 on my belt, I don’t care what color his belt is”.

      1. avatar Kapeltam says:

        “Judo is a great sport. A self defense discipline, not so much.” That’s a quote from my brother, a practicing Judo competitor.

      2. avatar that guy you know says:

        You got a black belt? All I got is this black gun.

    4. avatar THC says:

      Fluid movements, thats the piss down yur leg, right

    5. avatar Ad Astra says:

      “Your trigger finger would be broken in the process and you’d also be pinned. What could you possibly do next?”

      I’ve seen people walk on broken legs, in a life or death brawl I’m pretty sure most people could mash a trigger with a broken finger. Unless they had one of those super heavy pull NYPD triggers.

  17. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    1. avatar Sixpack70 says:

      That was perfect!

  18. avatar Badwolf says:

    Shane is grossly underestimating an attacker with a gun. He’s a Darwin Award waiting to happen.

    Yes you can grab the slide to stop a follow up shot. But that assumes so many things go your way. First, you assume the 1st shot will miss you. Second (and dumbest assumption), you assume your attacker will let you grab the gun, meaning the attacker will stop and hold the gun still, long enough for you to reach across and grab it. 3rd, you assume your attacker has no other weapons, fists, knife, another gun, or an accomplice.

    1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Heck you can push the slide back and throw the gun out of battery, preventing a first shot, if you’re really good and have circumstances in your favor.

      But you have to close the distance first.

      1. avatar Badwolf says:

        its too bad because shane seems like a nice guy. but shane is assuming way too much in his favor. he assumes the bad guy will miss and he wont miss (trying to grab the gun). hes going to get himself killed.

    2. I took a close quarters class. The objective was not to learn how to fight a gun armed opponent with your hands. It was to learn how to fend off your attacker so you can retain your gun and shoot him.

  19. avatar M J Johnson says:

    To paraphrase Shakespeare: This video is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying, nothing.

  20. avatar FormerWaterWalker says:

    Bringing a fist to a gun fight? Duh…

  21. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Yeah! Well I know Kung Fu and four other Chinese words.
    And I can run in place while delivering ineffectual b1tch punches to a heavy bag too.

  22. avatar CRF says:

    Unless your name is Neo and you live in an augmented reality created by machines in order to sap power from all of humanity… Don’t rely on Kung fu to save your life.

  23. avatar THC says:

    Looks like yah got this ole bull by the horns, but im bout to show yah nobody rides this bull for free , the muthr fukin reason yah spent your money. 8Seconds, Texas Hippie Coalition rules

  24. avatar Willard says:

    That’s sad. I actually like some of his other videos. Probably won’t be spending much time on his channel anymore after that video.

  25. avatar Ben says:

    I just took my 55+ year old father in law to the range for the very first time in his life. He was holding a slightly larger then fist sized group at 7-10 yards within 30 minutes with a bone stock Glock 19. He did only slightly worse with the much smaller Glock 43.

    A handgun at self defense distances is *far* easier to use and *far* more effective then *any other single weapon or skill* one can have for self defense. No other item or skill available will give a person combat advantage or parity with an hour or two worth of training. Nothing. Nothing else will level the playing field for an physically disadvantaged defender (old, disabled, weak, small, etc) like a gun will. A gut punch from a fit 20something punk would likely put me in the hospital (I’m disabled). But a gun changes the equation strongly in my favor (even if he also has one considering the skill level of the average attacker I see in various youtube videos).

    It’s just silly to think your better off without a gun in a combat situation.

    1. avatar JasonM says:

      A handgun at self defense distances is *far* easier to use and *far* more effective then *any other single weapon or skill* one can have for self defense.
      I disagree. An SBR or SBS is a much better weapon even at those distances.

      1. avatar Ben says:

        I agree totally. SBRs are just much harder to carry, even my MP5-PDW SBR. Drawing one is hard too.

  26. avatar THC says:

    Ive seen some badazz martial arts dudes, some where scary fast, knew one whom you could shoot at with pellet pistol, he would still get you. Lets try that again with shotgun….. declined

  27. avatar Joseph Quixote says:

    My martial arts instructor who was a deadly guy with his hands always carried. He practiced with the gun as much as he practiced Kung fu. He had no illusions about his abilities to defy reality.

  28. avatar Ian in Transit says:

    Jujitsu, Muay Thai, Tae Kwan Do, Kung Fu . . . all easily countered with a solid grasp of Ching-Ching-Pow. It is good to know some of all. If you have to bet your life on just one, stick with the gun.

    1. avatar Asiansteve76 says:

      Ching ching pow beats Sum Dum Jo every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

  29. avatar Shire-man says:

    He’s obviously drowning in his own awesomeness and suffering from ego fanboy blinders.

    I’ve noticed a trend among anti-gun martial artists. They always begin with the assumption their attacker doesn’t really want to shoot them hence all the disarming nonsense.

    I spent a number of years playing judo a while back. The ability, skill and will to kick somebodys ass is great but the gun is still the best tool for the job. When the best is an option why choose another unless you have to?

  30. avatar Hellbilly says:

    One word: SHAMPOO

  31. avatar Stinkeye says:

    Now, I’m not disagreeing with the assessment of this guy as an idiot, but I’m pretty sure if I just said “so-and-so is an idiot” in a comment here, it would be deleted. So the “no flaming” policy doesn’t extend to TTAG’s article headlines?

  32. avatar Evan in Dallas says:

    I think knowing some hand to hand combat is a good thing, and is just generally part of being a fully developed man(I know there are women here, so if they wanna learn martial arts more power to them). If not for the exercise and the fun of it, it does add one more tool that could help save your life. I am sort of partial to jiu jitsu since I got tired of boxing and muay Thai and being hit in the head(my brain is really my biggest asset at this point). That said I still think a gun beats anything else if it’s an option.

  33. avatar Wiregrass says:

    I know it’s all about style but if you’re serious about martial arts why would you have a readily accessible shock of matted hair hanging off your head giving your opponent an easy advantage to take control over you?

    1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Keep in mind, this dude is so fast and so good, he’ll have you incapacitated before you can grab it. Just ask him!

    2. avatar guidoc says:

      The same can be said for earrings and piercings. Just more things for your opponent to grab or accidently snag. Both will make you bleed and hurt like hell.

  34. avatar 38Specialist says:

    Grabbing the slide reminds me of the old “pull my finger” joke.

    May elicit a little more than fart though.

    A little learning is a dangerous thing.

    Remember not to crouch as the banger is slinging ’em in your direction – could be dangerous.

    Hoo Boy!

  35. avatar Coffee Addict says:

    If a criminal was trying to intimidate me by pointing a gun at my face AND he was within my reach, I am comfortable with attempting to redirect the point of aim to a safe place (not my face) gouge out his eyeball and break his collar bone, dislocate his shoulder and drive his nose into concrete. IF he’s ignoring the fact that a gun is best employed as a distance weapon..

    if, however, he’s outside of my reach, say, 7-10 feet away, I’m fucked. I also carry, because I’m over 50, don’t move as fast as I used to and I prefer not to break a sweat and engage hand to hand with a younger man. Doesn’t mean I won’t, just means I prefer not to. Meanwhile, stupid places, stupid things, these I avoid as my first line of defense.

  36. avatar Sammy^ says:

    “how to jam a gun by squeezing the barrel, the tendency to aim down”

    I’m thinking she has blended memory threads from a different experience with her recall of her trip to the range..

  37. avatar Jason says:

    This guy is a special kind of stupid. I’m not going to lose any sleep over what happens to him but would be concerned about impressionable young people out there that believe his crap.

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