(courtesy hprammo.com)

“When you’re only 5, 6 feet away, the bullets are going through three people, they were so close. That’s why law enforcement [officers carry] ammo that stops in people. We don’t want to shoot somebody and it goes through people.” – Chris Taylor, assistant special agent in charge of the Philadelphia Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Wilkinsburg mourns after mass shooting [via post-gazette.com]

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39 Responses to Blue Force Gear Quote of the Day: ATF Makes The Case for ‘Cop Killer’ Bullets

  1. Can someone help me understand why the ATF is offering a 20k reward for a local shooting? Was the AK full auto? If so isn’t that an illegal firearm?

  2. Except in NJ where we want those bullets to sail as far as they can and go through as many people as possible.
    I guess if I lived among Jersey douches I’d want to cull as many as possible whenever possible.

    • yeah, someone should take them to court over the unsafe aspects of he hollow point ban. Its been so long since the “evil” black talon ammo hoo-haw that I doubt the Anti’s can muster a defense that will pass the laugh test.

      • I’ve been told in court, by the judge, that “this is not a right it is a privilege”. So they can make any bullshit excuse pass legal muster in this crap hole.

        • Maybe, but since Heller and McDonald, it isn’t supposed to work that way. The Supreme Court declared that increased scrutiny was required for laws that infringe our rights to keep and bear arms. And, yes, ammo is part of “arms”. What that means is that the state needs to do more than just waive its hands, and the courts then say “fine”. They have to show some causal link between the law and the goal being sought by the law, and it shouldn’t be just guesswork (though some of the more recalcitrant courts are still giving states the benefit of the doubt here, which they aren’t supposed to). The problem here is that in cities esp., FMJ rounds tend to be more dangerous than comparable JHP, due to the over-penetration problem with FMJ. Burden should be on the state to show that this is more than offset by some benefits of FMJ over JHP, and that isn’t likely.

  3. Uh, yeah right.
    Just like the cartridges they used in the Waco, Texas biker massacre?

    Comparing ballistics of an AK-47 to a 9mm service pistol…look, yet another useful idiot to quote in the news.

    I further doubt the crossfire tactic was at all deliberate, more likely the second gunman took an opportunity to compensate for a known shortcoming of training and accuracy.

    A terrible result. But like all news releases following such events, ignorance & lies are being put forth furthering fear to aid in the momentum of gun control.

  4. The event doesn’t seem random. It was planned out and well executed. It appeared very specific.

    Sounds like someone’s bad “business” dealings might have followed them home.

    • Yeah, this seems like a hit of some kind doesn’t it? With the round count fired it seemed like they just mag dumped into the people after they had them where they wanted.

      In terms of the caliber stuff, these guys are kind of captain obvious. It’s not like they couldn’t have used any of a litany of purpose made hunting rounds to the same result, or that most of the rounds expended were just overkill.

      And I for one would like to know where these cheap AKs are, and how I can buy some. What a stupid statement.

      I hope the catch the perps, that is not cool on so many levels.

  5. I imagine drugs and narcotics sales had nothing to do with this entire incident.
    I dunno if the AK was full auto, but even semi-auto might have had the same effect. The handgun might have been lethal enough.
    The AK in question was Soviet Army approved?
    Gee, even with any center fire rifle, the rounds would have kept going.

    • “But this was like what the Soviet army used to use. This was an AK-47 or something similar to that, based on the shot pattern. … This is a common rifle you see at gun shows, with the banana clip that bends forward. It’s cheap. You can buy it anywhere.”

      An AK based on the shot pattern? I bet he can tell a shop by the pixels too…

      Not to mention the rest of the utter ignorance – You can still get cheap AKs? Really? And get them anywhere? Sign me up!

      • Well, the AK-47 round, 7.62 × 39mm, has a bullet that is a slightly different in size than the 7.62 × 51mm. This makes it easy to tell if the bullet came from an AK or SKS versus an M1A or other .308 firing rifle.

        Then, of course, if the murderers didn’t collect the “brass”, steel case, it is obvious for an AK cartridge.

        • Don’t disagree with either of you, but I think you glossed over the point I was attempting to make.

          “…tell by the shot pattern…”

          You might be able to discern a bolt-action rifle, you might be able to tell if it’s a MaDeuce because of the few inches of missing everything if they had time to sustain fire. I’ll grant you can safely infer M134 Vulcan, since there won’t be much left to see.

          But you can’t tell a damn thing short of it was likely a semi-auto from the “shot pattern”.

    • +1 lol
      ….. and too stop smoking weed in the back yard….
      …… and not to have loud people coming and going at all hours…..
      …… Oh!!…. And not to be a drug den in my neighborhood.

  6. “The victims of Wednesday night’s horrific shooting at a family cookout in Wilkinsburg never had a chance.”

    Uh-huh……let’s make them sound as innocent as possible. As if this was just any average family having a cookout in the good ‘ol US of A. Just a random event that could end up on your doorstep if you don’t get behind the anti-gunners and their agenda. Unfortunately for them most everyone who reads this story knows this isn’t some random event. This is obviously black on black gang related violence AGAIN…..just like most of the violence in this country. After I read this story yesterday I yawned, finished my coffee, and left for work feeling safe and 99.99% confident that I would have no need for a firearm whatsoever…….but, I strapped one on anyway.

    • As if this was just any average family having a cookout in the good ‘ol US of A

      At 11:00 PM, on a Wednesday night.

  7. I’m a little confused. To the liberal press, a fetus is an unborn child only when criminals kill it but not when an abortion doctor does it.

    • Murder of an unborn fetus is prosecuted when there is evidence that the fetus can survive outside the womb, but in most states AFAIK, not otherwise.Abortions occur long prior to that time.

  8. Maybe it’s in my “cookies” or browsing history, but the only part of the article that would load for me was a picture of a woman sitting on some steps and an ad for Anthony Arms and shooting center…

  9. How can you tell it was n AK 47?
    I assume they found 7.62 X 39 cases on the ground.
    I have an AR 15 chambered in X 39 and an SKS with 30 round magazines in that caliber
    There are plenty of other guns that also come in X 39 like the PTR
    Pretty poor police work if he just jumps to the conclusion that it was an AK cause he found steel or brass 7.62 X 39 spent cases

  10. Wasn’t there a time about 30 years ago (sorry youngsters) where the “Authorities” were screaming about “Cop Killer Bullets”, which were hollow points some of which were coated with Teflon? Lawsuits were filed by the families of criminal “victims” who were shot with hollow points by evil homeowners resisting their intrusion into their homes. Cops were being murdered by criminals with those flesh rending, organ busting, bone shattering hollow points and “decent people” would only use ball ammo or solid slugs.

    So, now the “Authorities” are saying just the opposite? We now know cholesterol is good for you and salt doesn’t really hurt you. Marijuana has major Medicinal uses and may cure Cancer. Red wine is good for your digestion. What next? Cigarette smoking will keep you from being schizophrenic? (Seriously, a guy argued that to me some years back, saying mildly schizophrenic people should smoke tobacco because the nicotine affected the balance of serotonin and dopamine in the brain and kept the schizo chemicals in check.)

    It is true that ball ammo can go right through Human Bodies and can subsequently hit other people, even penetrate walls and other seemingly solid objects, while hollow point bullets do not (usually) when shot into the torso owing to the expansion but likely inflict killing damage. Body armor is usually tested against ball ammo,

    Moral of the story: Generally speaking “Authorities” cannot be trusted to know what they are talking about and prove it time and again, usually at the expense of us ordinary folks.

  11. I’ve read that police officers sometimes employ ARs chambered in .223, which, at close range, will penetre at least two, maybe three people. The 7.62 x 39mm will do the same, especially if it is ball ammo. So what is this guy talking about? Comparing rifles to pistols? Why?

    And why the hell is the ATF involved in a criminal homicide investigation? Isn’t (and shouldn’t) this be the sole bailiwick of the FBI for federal crimes?

    • How would this be a Federal crime? Sounds like murder, plain and simple, the city’s police force should be doing the investigating, the feds should be out of a job if they don’t have a federal crime to investigate. ATF and FBI, both.

  12. Well, let’s just remember to quote them every time ammo limitations on citizens come up.

    “So, you are limiting citizens defending themselves to crappy bullets because you are ok with more collateral damage, and their being less effective at protecting themselves. It’s like you don’t want them able to do a good job of it. Or, at least not as good as you.”

    • Of course, that is precisely the reason, in order to provide more evidence that the serfs should not be permitted firearms, look what happens!

  13. I live outside of Pittsburgh. Everyday the local news reports as many as 5 shootings, with usually 2-3 including fatalities. The overflow from Pittsburgh has made my town a huge hub for herion and the scum who push it. People are being found od’d, we have home invasions now, and our police are massively overwhelmed and under staffed to handle this epidemic. I would like to thank everyone who votes Democrat for helping turn my home into the shit hole it has become. Hopefully it’s your home these junkies break into, and you can explain to them that you support them and the lifestyle they are living while they rape your wife and daughter because you don’t believe in being armed.

  14. By the title I thought we were talking about AP ammo, not hollow points. What foll started calling HP ammo “cop killers”?

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