Question of the Day: What’s the “Full Monty” for a Newbie?

Visitors to Top Gun Orlando may select a package called “The Full Monty.” No, they don’t watch a bunch of unemployed working class Brits stripping. For $170, customers “Shoot well over 100 shots per person with 9 awesome guns including . . .

the legendary AK47, American AR15, an original ‘Dirty Harry’ .44 Magnum revolver, a pump-action shotgun, as well as genuine Remington 700 sniper rifle complete with telescopic sight and both an Uzi and Heckler & Koch MP5 guns on full automatic ‘machine gun’ mode.”

Assuming customers are complete newbs, possibly even foreigners, what’s missing from this list? What would you substitute? When you introduce new shooters to the joys of ballistics, what guns do you use, and in what order?

comments

  1. avatar pwrserge says:

    I’d say add something belt fed or .50BMG but that might be asking a bit much from a cost standpoint.

    1. avatar MiniMe says:

      I had the chance to try one of those a while back. Almost a religious experience. 😀

  2. avatar NineShooter says:

    Link said Glock 17 was included, along with a .357 revolver, but no 1911A1?

    Gotta have a 1911 in the mix, I would think (said the Glock fan?!?).

    1. avatar Rob C says:

      +1 on the 1911. I mean REALLY. How can you leave that out?!

      1. avatar Ben says:

        Obviously a Glock 18 should be included.

  3. avatar Anon in CT says:

    Two-Gun Mojo!

    Just because.

    Also the DEagle (because Lara Croft and Deadpool), a Tommy Gun and a belt-fed SAW.

    1. avatar fulltanghalo says:

      Lara Croft, well the Angelina Jolie movie version, used dual HK USP Match Two Tone.

    2. avatar NikcaP says:

      Ditto on the Tommy and Desert Eagle .altho if they’re True bone Newbies your going have stress that it’s not like the movies.

  4. avatar Mike Mike says:

    That would be a short belt at $5-$10 a pop.

    Personally, not a fan of lining up the most technical or high powered guns for newbies.

    Kind of like saying if you pay $170 you can drive this nascar car at 200 mph for 3 laps.

    no chance of anything bad happening here……

    1. avatar Anon in CT says:

      If you have one-on-one instruction, there’s really no problem.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “If you have one-on-one instruction, there’s really no problem.”

        H’mm.

        Like that little girl with one-on-one instruction firing that SMG a few months back?

        1. avatar Anon in CT says:

          Please. There’s a difference between an adult newbie and a small child.

          I’ve been to The Gun Shop in Vegas with my total newbie friends, and they all shot full auto and large handguns perfectly safely under close supervision.

          My wife, who is not a total newbie, but had never fired more than .223 out of a rifle and 9mm out of a handgun, shot all kinds of weird and wonderful things last November at Robert’s little party in Texas, all under close supervision. If the instructor thinks it is warranted, you can always start people out with .44spl in the .44 Mag Revolver or the .357 Mag DEagle.

    2. avatar Cliff H says:

      First thing I would add is a little instruction on the proper stance for firing a pistol. Choose either the Weaver or the isosceles, please.

      As far as weapons, assuming this is an actual “never shot anything before” newbie, I would recommend a few rounds from a .22LR pistol to get warmed up, an S&W Model 10 in soft .38 reloads as the next step, then get into the serious calibers.

      Rifle selection seems OK, no need for .22LR when you start with an AR-15 since the recoil in negligible, then progress to the heavier calibers, but I would like to see a greater full-giggle assortment than just sub-machine guns.

    3. avatar VTAero says:

      Actually there are a lot of “racing schools” that do just that. You get a bit of ground school, ride 10 laps with the instructor driving, and then get to drive 10 laps with the instructor in the passenger seat. As long as the instructor is on top of things its really not that dangerous, in either case.

    4. avatar On the can says:

      The military teaches newbs too shoot full autos daily. And no, they don’t get personal one on ones with a Drill for an hour while doing it.

  5. avatar Jolly Roger Out says:

    The way they word that advertisement makes me cry a little inside. It’s obvious that they’re trying to attract the Cawwa Dooty demographic and other groups who don’t know what they’re talking about, but really? A “genuine Remington 700 sniper rifle with telescopic sight”? “Fully automatic ‘machine gun’ mode”? It’s like they’re begging the anti-gun types to jump all over them.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      .

    2. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “It’s like they’re begging the anti-gun types to jump all over them.”

      If you look at the web-page, the prices are listed in UK pounds. If memory serves, ‘The Full Monty’ was a British movie.

      Nowhere on the page is the address in Orlando listed, in fact, they say they don’t because people would just show up at the range.

      It leads me to believe that this a shoe-string operation with the booking done in the UK and the guns and NFA toys provided by a Florida local who uses a private range…

      1. avatar Anon in CT says:

        Smart really – if you own a lot of NFA stuff, why advertise your location to potential thieves?

        Besides, using the worse anti-gunner speak adds that special bit of frisson.

  6. avatar Ian in Transit says:

    That’s a great list. I would still have them shoot both a handgun and rifle chambered in .22LR. The big stuff is awesome but there is a huge amount of fun to be had just plinking. Lots of reasons for a new shooter to at least get to experience it.

  7. avatar passthebrass says:

    Agreed, both incredibly cringeworthy statements.

    But “genuine Remington
    700 sniper rifle with telescopic
    sight” will pull in more newbies than “grandpa’s deer rifle”.

    No excuse for “Fully automatic ‘machine gun mode” though.

  8. avatar Eye-roller says:

    For a NEWBIE? That’s a horrible list. A .44 Magnum revolver? That’s insane. I assume the “pump action shotgun is a 12-gauge too, right? Sure, that’ll make a newbie happy…

    That “full monty” package sounds like fun for an experienced, recoil-tolerant shooter. But for a newbie, that roster pretty much ensures they’ll never be back.

    Newbies should start off with a .22lr handgun. They should ditch the Remington 700 and replace it with a Ruger 10/22 with a scope. The shotgun should be a low-recoil 20-gauge at the most. The .44 Magnum should be dropped and replaced with something heavy as hell shooting maybe .45 Colt; still plenty powerful, but won’t rip the gun out of their untrained, inexperienced hands.

    1. avatar NineShooter says:

      If you were an adult going to the carnival/state fair for the first time, would you head to the kiddie ride area, or the 4-story-tall roller-coaster?

      1. avatar Justin says:

        At a carnival you’re not operating the equipment. To use your own analogy, would you rather put the new guy on his first day working at the carnival in charge of a roller coaster or put him on the teacups for a while?

        1. avatar NineShooter says:

          Modern carny, it doesn’t matter. They lock the safety bar down and push a button, and if something breaks or crashes, or someone falls out, calls the ambulance and the manager.

          This isn’t about OJT, it’s about getting a thrill-inducing experience.

    2. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Eye-roller, you’re missing the point entirely.
      This is Orlando, FL, the tourist mecca of the U.S. Their goal is to extract as much money as possible from clueless urbanites from slave states and slave countries. They have no repeat customers and don’t care. Their target audience has no interest in learning how to shoot. They just want to go home and brag about what they did. With video evidence for faceplant.

    3. avatar Cliff H says:

      I believe the whole point of the “Full Monty” is that the customer wants to know what these weapons are really like. If the goal is to give them that experience then the logical thing is to build up to it by getting some low-recoil handling in first and work up to the “Full Monty”.

      Even in the movie they didn’t just come out on stage naked and start dancing – that would have defeated the purpose.

      The build-up is the tease and the preparation. In this situation the Full Monty would be the grand finale – firing the biggest and best they had to offer, after getting warmed up to it.

      1. avatar PeterZ in West Tennessee says:

        The site clearly is targeted at Brits planning a vacation in Orlando. It is not designed to create new POTG. It is a once in a lifetime chance for the disarmed Brits to shoot some guns that they clearly never have the opportunity to shoot at home.

  9. avatar surlycmd says:

    U. S. rifle, caliber .30, M1 would be my choice to add. Fun and historical. Not hard to control and you cant help but giggle a little when the en bloc clip is ejected.

    1. avatar 505markf says:

      BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, PING!

      (giggle)… works every time.

  10. avatar Hannibal says:

    I’m not sure what “well over 100 shots” means but 100 rounds would be pretty paltry given the guns provided.

  11. avatar billy-bob says:

    If it’s not 100 rounds per gun, it’s not really that many shots, except for the .44 magnum.

    1. avatar NineShooter says:

      According to the summary on the website:

      AK-47……….20 shots
      AR-15……….20
      Uzi…………..25
      MP5………….25
      .308…………..5
      Glock………..10
      .357………….15 (5-shot J-frame snubbie — ouch)
      .44…………….5
      12 Ga…………5
      ————–
      Total — 130 rounds

      1. avatar VTAero says:

        Why isn’t there a modern pistol in the group!?

        I’d drop the .357 and swap in a plastic 9mm, based on the expected clientele it should probably be a glock. On the .44mag just give them 10 rnds of .44 special to shoot first and get used to a revolver before beating up their hand with the 5 magnum loads.

        Of course if we are talking movie guns… you gotta have a PPK and a silencer to go with it.

        1. avatar NineShooter says:

          Um, can’t you see the word “Glock” on the list I posted, right between the .308 and the .357? That’s a Glock 17 in 9mm, so I think we’re covered.

  12. avatar Mark Lloyd says:

    There would be no point to it other than to make a great video and it would be thought of by many as the same as taking a person who has never gone up in a plane and taking them for a ride in small general aviation craft, giving them a rough ride and scaring them. While some pilots have done that, the practice is is viewed upon very poorly.
    You want to give a person a smooth ride, telling them everything you will be doing so the person enjoys it.
    With that in mind, I was thinking at the end of the shoot, you let the person, shoot a 600 Nitro Express. But that would be just mean, funny as hell, but mean.

    1. avatar NineShooter says:

      A .600 Nitro produces about 100 Ft/Lbs of free recoil (depending on the load and gun weight).

      A 12 gauge shotgun will get you halfway to that figure with waterfowl loads in an average-weight gun, and three-quarters of the way there with 3.5″ Turkey loads. And do it a LOT cheaper, with less potential for range backstop damage (although the shotguns would probably be harder on the target holders, and have a higher ricochet potential).

  13. avatar Ray says:

    My list:
    .38 S&W Victory
    1911A1
    1903 Springfield
    M-1 Carbine
    M-1 Garand
    Johnson Rifle
    M1A1 Thompson
    Browning BAR
    Browning 1919
    M-1A
    AR-15/M-16

    Wash/Rinse/Repeat with Axis weapons and Combloc weapons. Now you have multiple packages to sell. Plus it gives a great opportunity to talk about the history of weapons development. There are so many different groups I could put together.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Very nice and inclusive list, however, I suspect the draw here is to give people who have seen/experienced firearms only through Hollywood productions or video games a chance to understand how they actually work and feel.

      If that is the intent of the customer, who is ALWAYS right, then the only thing I can suggest, and others have suggested, is to work up to it from low-recoil to the Full Monty. I would, however, do a little research into common cinematic weapons and ensure that they were part of the mix, especially the M1911.

      As for your idea, perhaps the best thing would be to have all of those firearms available and let the customer pick and choose which he wanted rather than forcing your choices on him/her. Maybe have a list of pistols to choose from, rifles to choose from and shotguns in different gauges/styles. You can choose up to ten or twelve total to make up your package.

    2. avatar Anon in CT says:

      You could call that “20th Century American Militaria”, and sell it as a different package.

  14. avatar Bob says:

    Rented Bersa 380 then my Glock 34. The people I’ve helped de-noob themselves have been clutch enough that I could trust them to obey the 4 rules, otherwise going from da/sa to glock, you know, a new person might expect to be able to booger-hook-it prematurely.

  15. avatar Echo5B says:

    .45 Colts SAA, Winchester 94 in 30/30, Sharps 45-90.

  16. avatar Ralph says:

    Winchester Model 1873 and the Colt Peacemaker. Let the rubes shoot the guns that made America.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      There ya go! Include a selection of historic guns. Flintlock, cap & ball, Sharps trapdoor, muzzle-load revolvers, cartridge revolvers (an S&W Schoefield would be cool), etc.

      1. avatar Katy says:

        I’d be there in a heartbeat.

        I got in touch with DGS after the post here about six months ago, but I keep putting off doing a build. Why? Because I keep spending and saving my pennies on those old beauties. If Clinton takes the nomination, that may shake me out of my nostalgia. Hopefully it doesn’t take a D victory in November – that’ll mean crazy lines.

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          She won’t have the lower or upper house. This election cycle her impact will be minimal.

        2. avatar Katy says:

          That doesn’t seem to stop the current occupant from doing his best. Toss in the eventual replacement for Scalia coming from her, I’d be wary.

    2. avatar jwm says:

      If they want to shoot the guns that made America it will be a smoothbore fest.

  17. avatar 5Spot says:

    FN FAL is missing.

    1. avatar Arkansas kurt says:

      damn skippy. and if they had one with the giggle switch, I’d pay the money to shoot it.

  18. avatar Ing says:

    “Genuine Remington 700 sniper rifle”? Yeesh. Nothing wrong with the ol’ boltie, but calling it a sniper rifle is too much.

    I’m with Ralph. No full-Monty firearms experience would be complete without a lever-action rifle.

  19. avatar BLAMMO says:

    (SHOOT!!) A feller could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      In Vegas there are at least six ranges where you could probably get this and many other packages, should you be willing to pay the freight. Most of them like to focus on full-auto for the tourists, but they do have a lot of other weapons for rent and might be willing to put together a package deal for the right price.

  20. avatar RCC says:

    Local range here had a 50 rounds of .22 with range fee and use of Ruger pistol for $40. Price includes one to one instruction
    They suggest this as beginner package.

    Then you can used 357, 44 mag etc

    Personally I always start people with .22 in pistol Sometimes .223 in rifle but usually .22

  21. avatar James69 says:

    Boomstick! SxS with 3 inch 2oz turkey loads! Colt peacemaker style revolver. Desert Eagle in .50AE. AA-12’s etc. Some kind of LMG belt fed. M-60? If your gonna go long range bolt action why not an AR-50? Hey add the 23mm ISIS/ISIL (your choice) sniper platform.

  22. avatar Cliff H says:

    Hey! They left out the ISIS 23mm caliber genuine sniper rifle!

  23. avatar germanguy says:

    I’m missing something historic from the old west. Say some old Colt and at least one lever action rifle. You know for the cowboy experience.

  24. avatar FormerWaterWalker says:

    Yeah I like the lever-lust experience. But this list is fine. It’ll either make ’em gun lovers or make ’em swear off guns(12 ga. and magnums?)…

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Probably the Full Monty should be the really big magnums. The finale should be the S&W .50 and/or a Deagle .50, but I would limit it to one shot from each. If you want more punishment than that there are plenty of dominatrixes available here in Vegas (they tell me).

  25. avatar Tony in Oregon says:

    10/22, SR22, Three bricks of ammo (two for the noob and one for “instructional purposes”)

  26. avatar Jaffas says:

    My wife started with a Hi Point 380. I limed the gun so much I bought the 9MM two days later.
    She is still new by standards. Just yesterday she fired a 38 , 32 and a 270.
    Punched 8 out of 9 rounds at 21feet with her Hi Point into a 2 1/2″ bullseye.
    The experience with the other guns was good but her 380 is HER gun.
    I enjoy the 9 and completely trust it.
    Just goes to show experience does not have to mean expensive. Neither does reliability.
    An inexpensive quality gun can also make gun ownership within reach.

  27. avatar MiniMe says:

    As several have stated above, if this is about introducing “muggles” into the pew-pew world then a 22LR pistol and rifle should be the first thing they use to teach them the basic 4 rules plus how to deal with a misfire or jam on the gun.

  28. avatar CameronB says:

    colts need to be there, both the peace maker and 1911, i think if the mp5 was an SD would be excellent. thompson is a great choice either in “chicago typewriter” or standard GI. get the Rainbow Six package and add the Socom mk23

  29. avatar Badwolf says:

    I second the motion on belt fed.

    You got a revolver, a recoil operated pistol, blowback & delayed blowback smgs, pump action shot gun, gas operated di & piston rifles, bolt action… So what’s missing to me is a belt fed.

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