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“So cut it out, open carriers. OC a pistol if you must (that’s not such a good idea either, but relatively speaking it’s the difference between gonorrhea and syphilis). But leave the rifles at home. Rifle OC doesn’t show us freedom-hating cops that the citizens are armed and capable of resisting tyranny; we already know that. We’re usually criticized for acting like everyone’s armed, not like nobody’s armed. You and your rifle don’t do anything except make yourselves look like self-centered assholes.” – Chris Hernandez in Open Carry: There Are No More Excuses For It [at breachbangclear.com]

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233 Responses to Quote of the Day: Knock Off the Open Carry Already

    • I love the OCers as much as the next guy, but not their attitude. The rifle OCers around her strut through crowded areas like jack-booted gestapo just trying to pick a fight.

      In court, if a CC picked a fight just to show that he needs to carry in case he gets in a fight, then is off to jail for him with the full blessing of the NRA. So what gives with these wanna-be martial lawists?

      • “So what gives with these wanna-be martial lawists?”

        ‘So what gives with these xxxxx-xx OPPONENTS OF martial lawxxxx?’

        FTFY

    • Per Brandenburg v. Ohio, publicly shouting that “we need to take revengeance against niggers and Jews” is free speech, protected by the First Amendment.

      Doesn’t mean that you should be doing it, or that people shouldn’t be telling you that you’re an idiot if you do.

  1. Yep, that’s the way, keep on dividing our community. Hate on those damnable OC’ers, those selfish hunters, and the evil LEOs, because that’ll help us fight the antis…..

    • If we as a community had a dime for every YT video about an open-carrier picking fights for no reason just to get a rise or of law enforcement, we would all be rich men.

      I agree that we should be able to open-carry without a permit because you never know when you may need to. I unequivocally disdain those that do it for fake internet fame and to get a rise out of LEOs. What good did the stupid idiots of “Open Carry Texas” do? Yeah, they may have helped get the laws changed (which it may have anyway) but in the meantime they strutted around looking like fools and personifying every last hillbilly stereotype out there. And, oh, did the left eat it up.

      They dressed sloppily, acted obnoxiously, carried unsafely (so much so that I wondered what my actions might be if I were near them since the pics looked like they were carrying in the ‘low-ready’), and overall were just jerks. It was dress up playtime for Virgil and the boys, they couldn’t care less about anything else. With the negative press they handed to the left, they single-handedly set back the 2A movement a decade.

  2. I don’t OC a rifle because I’m not a self-centered asshole, but because a) I don’t OC a handgun either, and b) a rifle is a bit long, awkward, and heavy. Nothing more, nothing less. That’s all it is. Try not to read too much into every little thing.

    Oh, almost forgot – try to be a bit more cordial might help a little? Because, see above.

    Tom

  3. Why do I suspect that Mr. Hernandez doesn’t exactly have a well-thumbed copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People in his home library?

    • This guy tries hard to keep it to rifle carry but the highlighted quote lets the mask slip just enough to see what’s going on. When you refer to handgun OC as ‘gonorrhea’ it’s pretty clear we know where you are coming from. Him being a cop is even worse since he actually does OC a handgun as part of his f**king job. So it’s ok to OC if you wear blue and carry a badge, just not for the peasants. Got it.

      This guy is no different than the handgun banners who changed tactics and went after ‘assault weapons’. They don’t want either of them around, but one is easier to attack.

      • You have to look at it from a leo’s point. Its scary to see someone with a hi cap rifle. They deal with robberies,altercations, drug offenders, n shootouts evey day. They cannout tell the good guy from the bad guy, and after dealing with the public so much they assume the worst. If our jobs had the potential to get us wounded or killed, you wouldnt want anyone armed either. I cannout blame them for their attitudes..however I do have a constitutional right to be armed, for now anyway.If more people carried a rifle it would become common place and the attention to it would lax. Your first trip to the nude beach was alot of eyeballing, go there enough and that laxes out to. I dont kno the answer, I respect police officers, but I do not respect any part of the constitution being infringed. He made a mistake with the a$$hole comment. Not all police officers hold how they feel tobthemselves and fellow officers. And belive it or not, unless your wearing blue, they dont think much of a civilian, member of the military or anyone else.As I heard one law enforcement officer put it to another “were all pieces of sht”, its the job he has, dont take it personal

        • Wait, now, Joe. Try to look at it from the NON-LEO point of view. They are afraid of the extreme hi-cap handguns carried openly, plus stun guns, select fire rifles, batons, backup, and the firm conviction that no one would hold him responsible for multiple murder. Get a grip. I don’t need to hear about how scaredy-cat our ou-of-control LEOs are, If I were one I would have been wearing a camera full-time or years, probably off-duty as well, if I had to pay for it myself. Anyone who is not strikes me, prima facie, as a criminal with a badge, wants no witnesses. And yes, he *IS* afraid of an armed citizen, because he knows he deserves to be shot. A GOOD man does not have such worries.

      • A cop doesn’t OC for shits and giggles, though. Cops carry concealed when they can- i.e. off duty. So when a cop sees the Chipotle ninjas, he rolls his eyes. I suspect many people here do as well.

  4. OCing a rifle has never been a normal act in American society.

    That’s a bullshit lie if I ever heard one. If I go hunting, get lost, and emerge from the forest into a park with children, I’d like to not get arrested for open carry.

    • Wait. It’s normal in American society to go hunting, get lost, and emerge from the forest into a park with children? Really? I guess I’ve been living in American society incorrectly all this time.

      • It wasn’t all that long ago that show and tell would Be a bunch of kids bringing in grandads shotgun to class. Or they would participate in the schools smallbore team. The only reason it’s taboo now is people don’t see guns on a regular basis and the only time they do is in the media.

        • I’ll grant that may be true. (Really on the shotgun at show-and-tell, though? That was a thing? Not in my lifetime, and I’m 40. But whatever.) Regardless, there’s a difference in perception between either of those examples (which involve supervised handling by minors) and some tacti-clad dude carrying an un-cased SCAR down the sidewalk. At no point has that been “normal.”

        • Would it make you “feel” better if the guy was an old farmer wearing OshKosh B’Gosh clothes and carrying an Ithaca 37 with a wood stock? You know the same gun used by Navy SEALS in Vietnam.

        • I’m a good decade (almost two) younger and I still remember one of my buddies went out and bought a Browning A-bolt for his 18th birthday and brought it to school on the following Monday and was showing it off to a crowd of people in the parking lot that included some like minded teachers/coaches and admins.

          I think it all depends on where you grew up, probably also helped that it was a private school too.

        • I am in my 30’s – I used to walk around the backroads near my grandparent’s farm with an old, iron and wood, bolt action, air rifle, which I would defy anyone to tell from a real rifle at distance. No one cared.

          Let me guess, Korvis, you’re from the city, or heavily populated surburbs?

        • I’m just into the 30’s too. I did the exact same thing as a kid, walk around with BB and pellet pistols and rifles. wtf happened?

          Also f this guy. I may agree with what he says (we’ve got pistol OC, we need to be pushing to normalize that now) but I will fight to the death the reason HE says it

        • Grand-dad’s shotgun would have come to show-and-tell only if:

          * it was different enough from most to be interesting
          * he’d gotten it in some special way
          * he’d done something special with it
          * the kid had shot his first bird with it and the bird wasn’t available

          Bringing any old shotgun would have been laughed at, because, well, everyone had one, and so what? But if it was grand-dad’s three-barrel that came over from the old country with great grand-dad, or if it was the 20-gauge grand-dad had put to use ending the career of a rustler, or the kid himself had sat with it all night and actually loaded it the time a couple of escaped convicts crossed the family yard while dad was out with the posse — yeah, those were worth show and tell.

          (note: the examples are from real life, mine or relatives, and two of them indeed did go to show and tell)

        • Y’all miss the point. And maybe that’s my fault for communicating inartfully.

          In most of “American society,” generally speaking, no, rifle OC is not normal. Certainly, as noted, there are places in America where it does happen with some frequency – and it would be reasonable to ignore rifle OC in those places – but most Americans in 2016 don’t live in those places.

          Furthermore, there is no place in America where incidentally OCing an MSR is or ever has been normal. You may see them out and about in public at political gatherings or protests, sure. However, no one expects to be walking down the street and to see an adult carrying one openly in any kind of ready state.

          So what?

          Again, I don’t want to see any kind of OC rendered illegal. However, if you’re OCing an MSR or any other rifle *** where people don’t ordinarily do such things *** you should expect to attract the attention of law enforcement and to face some questions. You don’t want to answer the questions? Fine. You should be free to go in your way unimpeded. However, the risk of potential harm from a criminally-wielded MSR is such that society is justified in keeping a wary eye on a person who feels no qualms about carrying one openly where that kind of behavior is not the norm.

          I can’t imagine why, but maybe one day we’ll live in a place where it’s normal to strap on an MSR on your way out of the house. Under those circumstances, sure, it would be a waste of public resources for the police to care about it. Until then, though, I’m fine if they keep an eye on it.

        • I remember that, and nobody gave it a second thought in my little town. Most boys used to be absent on the first day of deer season. And then Columbine happened and suddenly teenagers were murderers until proven otherwise.

        • I took a double-barreled shotgun to school in first grade for show and tell. That was in Auburn, Indiana. I was born in ’56.

      • “I guess I’ve been living in American society incorrectly all this time.”

        Apparently so. When I was in high school, a friend and I used to meet up at my house or his and carry our rifles through the neighborhood and across the grade school grounds (school was not in session, or we would have been in school) and into the woods beyond, shoot up a couple boxes and walk back home, probably a 2-3 mile round trip. We didn’t have cars or even licenses, so walking was our only option. We probably did that 29-30 times, never had a bit of problem, not once did anyone even ask what we were doing. What is there in this described scenario which would panic you?

        • Where in any previous statement did I say I would be panicked?

          Again, there’s a difference between what you described and what most modern rifle OCers do. I don’t think rifle OC should be illegal, but it is perfectly reasonable for the police to investigate whether a guy OCing an AKM in suburbia is doing so for nefarious purposes.

        • If it does not panic you, WTF are you talking about? Why do you care? How is it your business? If you don’t like it, don’t look at it. If it is unusual, so what? That guy who just walked behind him is CCing a type of pistol you’ve never seen before, does that concern you? Minding other people’s business is a fool’s errand, and a waste of time and energy.

          Police are required to have probable cause before they interrupt your day, remember? The only “reasonable” thing they can do is keep an eye on you, as in follow you until you depart the areas of their concern. What do you think that probable cause would be when the activity in question is legal?

        • “but it is perfectly reasonable for the police to investigate whether a guy OCing an AKM in suburbia is doing so for nefarious purposes”

          Why?

          Does everything we do have to be ok’d by the police? Carrying a rifle around hurts who exactly? Where is the crime?

          The police are not there to monitor and approve everything that people do in our society. That’s not their job, we don’t want it to be their job and frankly there aren’t enough of them to take on that job anyway.

          That is unless you want some kind of full on police state, do you?

        • Police are not required to have probable cause to ask you a damn question. That’s ridiculous. If they ask, and you don’t want to answer, don’t answer.

          If the cops see a teenager walking around at night downtown with a bucket of spray paint cans and a ladder, would they not be justified in keeping an eye on him to prevent potential vandalism?

          If the cops see a man walking around a parking lot with a slim jim looking in windows of parked cars, would they not be justified in being vigilant against potential burglary?

          Neither of the above behaviors is illegal, but they both are suspicious and point to potential criminal activity. It is perfectly acceptable for the police to ask questions and to observe the situation. Their doing so doesn’t turn the world into a police state.

      • http://www.jrank.org/encyclopedia/pages/cm7kxkdlo9/Pioneer-life-in-America.html
        “pioneers lived a rough, dangerous, and demanding life. The men had to be farmers, hunters, trappers, skilled carpenters, and skillful with weapons, especially the rifle.”
        Read more: Pioneer life in America – Settlers, Land, Settlement, and American – JRank Articles http://www.jrank.org/encyclopedia/pages/cm7kxkdlo9/Pioneer-life-in-America.html#ixzz40iqhGNqc

        Is this really SO difficult to understand???????

      • The point of the story Korvis, is hunters open carry their rifles. I also occasionally hunt with “black rifles.”

        What freedom hating opinionland doesn’t understand, is that Regular joes, with no intent to harm, will be arrested and charged (with their gun rights likely revoked) because of small technicalities. Legalized open carry protects them.

        The nonsense about police not being able to investigate is nonsense. Police can stop anyone they want to and ask questions – they do it everyday – regardless of the legalities. What they couldn’t do, if passed, is arrest someone simply because they were open carrying.

        Outlawing open carry isn’t going to stop mass shootings or criminal acts. The law is completely ineffective in that situation. I don’t know about you, but I can fit an illegal SBR under my jacket. Furthermore open carry is more honest. If you think they are a threat – you can see the threat, you can watch the threat, you can follow the threat. Would you rather you not be able to see the threat?? Pass a law against open carry and those people will conceal their weapons.

        • Where did I I say I wanted to make any kind of OC illegal?

          Please show me.

          There’s a difference between identifying a behavior as potentially boorish and wanting it to be illegal. I never said the latter.

        • So, like, you have appointed yourself the Ann Landers of the firearm owners of the world? Why would anyone care what you find boorish?

        • Because consistently and pointlessly boorish behavior by gun owners makes the job of protecting the RKBA all the more difficult. Gun muggles gonna muggle, and I’d rather not fuel that fire without a reason.

        • Fine. But you have to tolerate the weirdos so the rest of us can have freedom. That entails also – protecting the rights and actions of the weirdos.

        • I absolutely am in favor of securing the rights of the weirdos. That doesn’t mean I have to like their behavior. Nor should they expect me to.

        • ” would just conceal” Gang bangers, thugs and your robbers/thieves, already conceal carry, usually without a holster of any kind. When is the last time you saw a clean cut, open carrier pull out a holstered handgun to conduct an illegal activity. The gun you see holstered, even on a tattooed biker, is not likely to be a threat, the gun you don’t see un-holstered in baggy pants or waist ban, is the one to be concerned about
          I’m getting really annoyed at self appointed Miss Manners, pontificating on what is or is not acceptable in how a legal gun owner chooses to carry. In Texas, Open Carry has been a non-event. Well except for the unsolicited comments by folks who need to mind their own business, such as some on this web site and Chris Hernandez,

    • From the age of 10 or 12 until I got my driver’s license, I would frequently carry a rifle or shotgun the length and breadth of my small town as I traveled to the fields and woods to hunt or shoot. Not an eyebrow was lifted. Quite often I would meet a group of friends engaged in the same activities. A group of young teenage boys all carrying long guns walking through town. And nobody said a word. Never been a normal activity. Horseshit.

      • Those times r gone, my friend, The ethics were different, kids opended doors for the elderly,not shovevem down n rob them. I have deep concerns for he path this country is on

    • Where you huntin’, Anonymous? Laughable. If you’re hunting and end up in a park with children, you need to be disarmed for stupidity.

      • Am I stupid for providing you an example you couldn’t relate, or are you stupid for not being able to address the repercussions of the example I provided? Maybe you are too stupid to realize we are on the same team? If this is your idea of helping – please stop. If you don’t understand the example or the concept to which I am conveying, please ask and i’ll try to help out.

  5. I’ve yet to hear (or see in print) an anti-gun person say they had changed their mind about the R2KBA because they saw someone open carrying an AR-15. I fail to believe you are going to change anyone’s mind by open carrying anything.

    • Agreed. Guns are tools before political statements. If you’re going to carry them for primarily political purposes, do so in a way that makes the political intent clear. Otherwise, it’s reasonable to assume that you’re using them for their first purpose. And the first purpose of a carbine carried at low ready down Main St. is not defensive.

      We don’t need to make rifle OC illegal, but I have no problem at all with the po-pos intervening to make sure you’re just an asshole and not a criminal.

      • Such action by the “po-pos” is clearly beyond their constitutional authority, so in doing so they are acting as armed thugs, not peace officers, and you have no problem with that? Should they be carrying their select fire SBRs as they do so? Like, OPEN carrying their machine guns that you and I paid for? Thinking is good. If you believe such police actions are justified and necessary, the Amendment process awaits you. Otherwise, it’s called abuse of authority.

        • It is not an abuse of authority to investigate potenial criminal activity in progress. Investigation doesn’t require an arrest. If the OCer doesn’t want to talk, that’s his right.

        • WHAT criminal behavior? We have had as a given this theoretical OCer is just walking around a mall, or whatever. If cops (or anybody else) want to follow him in CASE he’s up to no good, fine. But otherwise, to interfere with his day they need probable cause. This is not difficult, I was stopped once in my shiny new BMW for not displaying a front license plate. I was confused as to why, until my wife told me they wanted a closer look at my car. And they had probable cause, and we informed them we were both armed, and we all had a chat, and then went on our way, no harm done. But they did NOT just “suspect criminal behavior” and pull me over. I once sold a car I had bought new and driven for 29 years that had never had a front license plate, and that BMW still does not have one, 4 years later, and nobody cares, but it *IS* probable cause to pull me over, and that requirement is not a joke.

        • We’re talking past each other.

          “If cops (or anybody else) want to follow him in CASE he’s up to no good, fine.”

          THAT’S all I’m talking about.

          In addition, though, they also can ask questions. Not arrest. Not detain. Just ask. If he doesn’t want to answer, he’s free to go. There is no PC requirement for the cops to start a conversation with someone. There is a PC requirement to detain an individual, but I never recommended that.

          If an OCer is comfortable with that level of attention from the community as a result of his OCing, then that’s his business.

      • Here is a thought…..how about you just go on about your business, be situationally aware as all people should be and until and unless someone actually commits a bad-act against another, you simply cease pushing your world-view and collectivist desires onto everyone else.

      • There is a big difference imo between a person holding a rifle at low ready and one with a slung rifle over their shoulder…..again, imo, at low ready might as well be brandishing….slung is a protest or simply transporting a rifle…..

        I open carry on occasion and I would side eye anyone with their rifle in their hands…it’s unneeded and causes unnecessary issues and alarm….

        Sling the rifle over the shoulder if a person wants to protest….and honestly, probably a more effective protest with an empty magwell….

    • Allegedly, OC in Arizona has desensitized state residents from seeing guns on people. That is the impression I get from reading Dean Weingarten’s blog.

      • Pretty much…most never even notice and if someone does, the usual response is, “Hey I have one just like that” or a question or similar….never have I had a issue or complaint here….

        Even the cops really don’t care if you aren’t waving it around or trying to rob someone….I’ve had conversations with cops while open carrying and they never twitched or had any issue…..

      • I have seen several people oc ar-15s slung on their backs while shopping at the fry’s grocery store by metrocenter mall, no one was alarmed and no police were called, now had they been at low ready that would have aroused suspicion but they weren’t so they were left unmolested.

  6. Why is an excuse needed? Why does someone who is apparently a police officer ordering people not to do something that is legal? Seems to be beyond his authority, no?

    • “Live and let live: it’s amazing how much better off we’d all be if we just tried it.”

      I agree. If “ALL” actually followed this advice we’d be fine but many don’t…and of the many of those who don’t, some are looking to restrict/ban firearms ownership. Those people draw great energy from the negative reception OC can have on the the general masses. We’re doing our self a disservice by ignoring that fact.

      There’s nothing wrong with recognizing that the (sometimes intentionally provocative) actions of our OC-ing brethren might result in legislative fallout that will affect us all. Maybe OC won’t ultimately sway most people to be against firearms ownership but I think it’s already happened in select cases.

      • daveR,

        The only jurisdictions where open carry has led to further restrictions are jurisdictions that have an overwhelming majority of gun-grabber politicians and populace … who would have enacted restrictions anyway.

        Besides, what good is the right to carry a firearm openly if you cannot carry a firearm openly for fear of that action being justification to enact restrictions?

  7. I hate to agree and will probably catch sh!t here for it, but, I don’t believe OC helps our cause, it just stiffens the resistance of John Q. to our ultimate goal of 50 state CC and reciprocity. Whatever you say, walking around with an AR in public makes most people nervous and we don’t need them voting for Clinton, Sanders, etc.

    • You might be given grief for that statement, but there are those of us that agree with you. It’s one thing to be walking around with your AR over your shoulder when you’re coming to/from the range or out of the woods. It’s another thing entirely to hit up the local strip mall and a restaurant in suburbia doing the same thing.

      Those who disagree – you love guns, I love guns, but many other people will never love guns, and/or don’t care about guns. Open carrying isn’t going to change that. If anything, like Jim said, it’s going to scare off the fence sitters.

    • … our ultimate goal of 50 state CC and reciprocity.

      I do not agree that that is “our” ultimate goal. My ultimate goal is for all jurisdictions to comply with Natural Law and the Supreme Law of the Land which states, “… the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

      Notice that the Supreme Law of the land does not specify concealed. More importantly, we should be protecting the right to carry any firearm in any fashion that we wish. Sure, there may not seem like a compelling reason today to carry a military style rifle down the streets of greater Las Vegas or wherever. And that could all change tomorrow if motorcycle gangs or Islamic terrorists or whoever start attacking people en mass on a daily basis … not that we need to satisfy anyone’s definition of a “compelling reason” in order to exercise a right.

    • Because people carrying AK and AR rifles, not slung on their back but in their hands doesn’t help the cause, but instead gives talking points and images for the anti crowd? Showing up at a rally dressed like Rambo, instead of say a nice shirt and tie, dressed for war instead of showing that we’re normal people, your neighbors. Sure that will help Joe and Suzy Sixpack not support more gun control, when they see Cleetus’s boogerhook inches away from the bang switch. Image matters. People acting like that, and lets be honest, scaring folks, IS his business-and mine too. Because Mr and Mrs Sixpack will happily vote for someone who will do something about those lunatics running around like Rambo…

      Sure, it’s America. Do what you want. Just don’t act surprised how things may turn out if you do something stupid. And when people like the author are annoyed when the OC crowds action may impact their rights.

      • Exaxtly. I personally support the OC of rifles as a desensitization tool, but it’s gotta be done correctly. Dress like a normal person and have it across your back on a 2 point sling. Jesus Christ. Not that hard.

        • Red has it right.

          Take a look at the pic in the article from an OC rally in Washington state. Under Stand Your Ground laws, he could legitimately be shot dead walking that way because someone could reasonably claim to have been in fear for his life — because carrying in that fashion when there are no legitimate targets in evidence is a threatening manner with a lethal weapon.

          Do it respectfully, or don’t do it. Carrying in combat-ready position is an invitation to be arrested by providing probable cause.

      • I can tell that you’re not from around here… 🙂 During certain seasons, the sight of people (men and women, even teens) in camo clothing, with all sorts of guns carried all sorts of ways… is dirt common. At other times it would not be common, but otherwise unremarkable.

        The thing is that our community considers guns “NORMAL.” We’ve had “open carry” for a very long time. If the special snowflakes in your area are nervous about it, maybe they just need to see it more often. Hiding the guns is certainly no help. And I don’t carry my guns “for the cause.” The “cause” will be served by honesty and education, not manipulation of emotions.

        My point was that Mr. Hernandez can’t dictate this, or anything else to others.

        • You’re actually closer to on the same page with the author (and with me) than you realize. Those people around you who are camo’d up and carrying their guns are doing it for a concrete reason, not to cause a stir. He may not like open carry in general, but he’s really not saying to stop doing it. He’s saying to stop doing it for no reason, or if the only reason is to cause a scene. I don’t know where you are, but where I am, people carrying rifles is unusual. But I’m in an urban/suburban area. If I was wherever you are, the sight of people carrying rifles would likely not give me a second thought, because it’s hunting season, and when in Rome…

        • Problem is, Matt, that nobody can actually know the “reason” anyone is carrying. Using one’s own interpretation to decide what another is thinking, or why he’s doing something, is the basis for this push to make things “illegal” because the person MIGHT do this or that. And nobody can truly know what that would be, how or when, usually not even the person themselves.

          And would OC long guns be the worst or only sign of potential problems or attack? Of course not. So many other factors… guns are not, by far, the only potential threat, though any gun carried at “low ready” rather than holstered or slung would definitely get my attention and require further analysis.

          I look at everyone around me. If someone stands out – especially a stranger, I take a moment to consider all the other factors, body language, proximity, etc. If I were to actually perceive a threat, I’d take defensive action.

        • Hell, Mama, the guy writing this article might really be a total anti just trying to chip away at what’s left of the 2A. So we need to ban his ass.

          See, as you’ve pointed out, the “might be” argument is silly. It can even be turned against the people using it.

      • Well said, CSF. Open carrying should be, well, NORMAL if it’s going to help normalize. Even if you’re carrying just because you can, it should be in ordinary clothes and non-threatening manner.

        When I was in college, friends and I would hang rifles on our backs and bike through town to the shop of a gunsmith friend. The only time there was ever any police involvement was instructive: we got pulled over, and the officer asked one guy to change the way his rifle was slung because it didn’t look secure and could potentially fall and become a traffic problem (then we got into a discussion of the relative skills of our gunsmith friend and the one the cop went to). In a university town, we made some waves, but the cops consistently told citizens we were authorized — by the same Constitution that said we could all go to the church of our choice.

  8. Read the whole article, not just the quote above. The guy makes a pretty valid point, from where I’m sitting, albeit in a fairly abrasive way. His main beef is with OC of rifles “just because” and especially those that do so not slung, but at the low ready. Again, whole article, not the cherry-picked quote seen above.

    • A fairly abrasive way?

      “Open Carry lunacy is the hallmark of gun-rights extremists, and within the gun right community OC activists are widely disliked (and insulted, and mocked, and caricatured).”

      . I’ve said it before, what is the essential difference between when I have done private security with a badge and an OC gun and I am just, right and good: then I put my street clothes on, continuing to OC and now I am a “gun rights extremist” that should be “insulted, mocked and caricatured”?

      No, the only difference is as perceived by those that worship the state, like Chris, that accept that the only legitimate circumstance of a person for openly carrying the badge of “authority” that the gun represents, is only allowed by agents of the state.

      You see, the reason people like Chris and others that actively attack the citizens that OC, is because we are saying, by openly carrying that badge of a free person, that we have the same authority, and the same responsibility to be the first line of defense for our community. In the process, we are challenging the “authoritae” of the “only ones”, and that is something they cannot abide.

      Chris attacks so viciously, those of us that OC because we frighten him, we frighten him because we say, loud and proud, we are not just equal to you, but that in fact, as a public servant, you work for US.

      Yep, nothing like a worshiper of the state, like Chris, to have his Deity challenged, to feel absolute terror. And it shows.

      • You missed the point a bit, I think. I believe the lunacy, extremists, and activists he’s referring to are the outliers. They are not people who simply carry openly, they are people who carry openly in a provocative manner, designed to draw attention. If you’re on the way home from the range and you stop at McDonalds, and you take the time to go to the trunk to retrieve your rifle for the sole purpose of carrying it in and propping it next to you while you eat, you’re doing that to make a point or make a scene, or both. Carpenters don’t get their hammers out of the truck and put them on the table while they eat. I don’t get my mask and snorkel from the car on the way home from a dive trip and put it on the table while I eat. I don’t play 18 holes and then carry my golf bag into Chipotle. If I did any of those things, it’d be weird, and draw attention. It’s no different if it’s a rifle. I’m not saying you can’t do it, I’m just asking “Why?” That’s why people who open carry into Chipotle are insulted, mocked, and caricatured. Because it’s outlier behavior, and our society mocks outliers.

        And again, we’re talking about rifles, at least primarily.

        • hat’s why people who open carry into Chipotle are insulted, mocked, and caricatured.

          Will this reference never die its long-deserved death? The so-called “Chipotle Ninjas” were there by explicit permission of the establishment, were welcomed and well-received while they were there, and were asked to pose for a picture.

          If our own side can’t even get facts straight, we have no business holding the antis accountable to their prevarication.

        • Enhance your calm, John Spartan. It wasn’t a “getting facts straight” scenario. It was an example, just like my use of McDonald’s earlier in the paragraph.

        • Enhance your calm, John Spartan. It wasn’t a “getting facts straight” scenario. It was an example, just like my use of McDonald’s earlier in the paragraph.

          Quite calm, my friend. I just recognize the “Chipotle Ninjas” reference as an element of the rhetorical/cultural war in which we are engaged. (Just like “I can see Russia from my house.”) When we let the other side define the playing field, we lose a little more of that war. So, it bothers me to see “Chipotle Ninjas” repeated by those on our side, as if it were some sort of fact.

        • I’d go back and change it to Moe’s, but then two things would happen: (1) our interaction above would become irrelevant, and (2) my story would instantly become fantasy, because who the hell goes to Moe’s?

        • You might not remember Matt, but I do. I was attacked as viciously by the same insults and demeaning comments for the OC of a pistol, as is being used by for the OC of a rifle. Pistols, because of people like me that ignored those comments eight years ago, have helped to make the OC of pistols, the norm, mostly.

          I see the same fear in the insults now, for the same reasons. As my post above states.
          I also remember when I OC’d a .22 rifle out and about, when I was a child. When kids would bring their rifles to school to shoot on rifle teams or to hunt squirrels on the way back home.It can be that way again, if we all do our part to re- normalize the OC of rifles, like we have normalized the OC of pistols.

          So, yes, I see the need, so I will do my part, just I have done my part with the OC of pistols.

        • The “Chipotle Ninjas” meme needs to die. When I see it, it reminds me of the the Black Lives protesters using “Hands up, Don’t Shoot.” You can still have a conversation, but inside I am already going, “Dude, really….”

      • Yet in the comments section below the aritcle he says, “All these “What part of ‘shall not be infringed’ don’t you understand? ‘Murica!” commenters can keep OCing. I haven’t – ever, anywhere – called for making it illegal. But it’s impractical, illogical, self-defeating, and stupid. And I’ll continue to exercise my 1A right to criticize OC. If all you OC warriors truly believe in freedom, you’ll accept my right to call you out for your stupid actions.”

        Clearly he’s talking about Chipotle ninjas who want to play dress-up like they’re all hard operating operators who operate operationally. He even clarifies that point in other comments.

        We’ve got a huge miscommunication going here about OC. I OC rifles, handguns and shotguns and I CC handguns too…sometimes simultaneously, depending on what part of Montana I’m in and what I’m doing at the time. Last fall’s antelope hunt found me often walking for miles back to the truck via county road with my rifle slung over my back. Nobody looked at me twice. When I walk up into bear country I’ll OC a large pistol. Again, nobody cares. When I go into Billings to buy groceries, I’ve got anywhere from one to three guns hidden on my person. Nobody needs to know about it because concealed means concealed and I’m just trying to buy coffee and not scare the horses.

        So to make a blanket statement that OC is bad or good is simply not going to work. It very much depends on the stituation and how one is presenting oneself. To be sure, carrying an AR15 at low ready to confront whatever is in the chicken coop in the dark is one thing–wearing it like that to go into Starbucks in Parma, Ohio makes you look mentally unbalanced.

      • Yep Matt in FL, we do! I meant my comment for the poster above yours. When I hit send I saw your post beat mine and nodded the whole way through as I read yours. I love the part about bringing the golf clubs into Chipotle. It’s EXACTLY that. If you drive to someplace, get out of the car, open the trunk, strap on a rifle and THEN go into the store or whatever, you’re doing it for attention. Your comments are right on. Guns are tools, not accessories and there is a time and place for everything.

        If a feller walks into the store in Zortman, MT with a rifle on his back, nobody will look twice at him. If it’s in the fall, he’s likely just a hunter. If it’s anytime else, he’s either shooting coyotes or targets or whatever. No biggie. That same guy walks into Publix in Pensacola, FL with that same rifle not over his back but being carried in front at low ready with his hands on it ready to go and people will lose their cool. This is because he didn’t just walk in carrying a rifle in the course of doing something rifle-related, he tooled up to send a message of “look at me, I’m a total badass.” I think a reasonable person would not see it that he’s a badass but rather that he’s a threat because he’s either mentally unbalanced by thinking that Plublix is a war zone or so totally dumb as to be a danger to himself and everyone around him. Clearly others disagree with this assessment and that’s fine, but I’d so much rather run into someone with a rifle if I’m out in the boonies than walking into the Burger Dive downtown.

        Handguns are a totally different matter, at least around here. I see OC pistols all the time and nobody bats and eye. Last time I went to Sam’s Club here, I followed a couple of crusty old-time ranchers into the store. They looked as if they had slept in a drainage ditch, but one guy had a sweet Kimber .45 on his hip in a really spiffy leather pancake holster. It looked as natural on him as having two arms and two legs. He never once touched it, played with it, fondled it or even paid any attention whatsoever to it. In fact, I felt like the weird one as we walked a similar path around the store because I kept trying to get a good look at his heater. As we left the store I thought “This is how you do OC.”

        • Sorry Sean. But Chris very clearly likened the OC of pistols as to some type of sexually transmitted disease. “So cut it out, open carriers. OC a pistol if you must (that’s not such a good idea either, but relatively speaking it’s the difference between gonorrhea and syphilis)”

          But the point is the same. All your insults and demeaning comments scream fear. You attack what you’re scared of. And you are scared by the fact that I challenge the legitimacy of the agents of the state in the OC of their badge of “authority”, not just that shiny piece of metal on their chest, but the OC gun as well.

          Because Sean, internally, in your subconscious, you’re a subject, subservient to the state, not a citizen. You, in your own mind, do not accept your own authority as an American citizen, to carry the same weapons openly that your public(masters) servants do every day.

          So just as I was attacked using the same insults when I started OC’ing a pistol eight years ago, for the same reasons; you attack those that OC a rifle with the same insults for the same reason. It challenges your obeisance to your masters’; the “only ones” that, to you, can be the only ones to legitimately OC a firearm, in this case, a rifle.

          Well, I do accept that I am a citizen, not a subject, and I will carry the weapons of a citizen soldier, because I am the first line of defense for my community and my country. And the public servants can be my back up.

          So I believe I will start to OC a rifle as well, and in a few years, you can thank me for “normalizing” this as well.

        • Jesus Christ. You just analyzed more into that guy’s comments about his inner workings and thoughts than he could have gotten in a year of paid-for psychotherapy. Truly you are a genius of the first order, and your perception knows no bounds.

        • LOL. Why thank you Matt!

          But I notice that you don’t refute my analysis. You just make fun of the one giving it. Typical of those that simply attack the messenger, because they can’t counter the message.

          Typical Saul Alinsky tactics. “Rules for Radicals” , the guy really did understand human psychology.

        • I didn’t refute your analysis because it’s a waste of time. I know my limits, and untangling the mind of another person is not within them. I might be 50% successful if I tried it on my best friend, but I’ve known him for nearly 25 years. I’m certainly not going to attempt it on a random stranger based on one paragraph on the internet.

        • Oh, I don’t know Matt. Anti-OC people have no problem telling me in the worst and degrading ways, why I OC firearms. The OC of Firearms which has been the traditional and accepted right and practice for much of this countries history. And they do so never having met me, or having asked me why I choose to OC.

          I, on the other hand, after having read their venomous and hateful screed, have given one reason for this attack on someone simply practicing a traditional american right. I have pointed out why they have accepted the open carrying of firearms by designated agents of the state, and why i believe they attack regular citizens for doing the EXACT SAME THING; especially when it is the accepted traditional responsibility of being the “first responder” to providing defense for ones community and country.

          So I have given the reason, I believe, for this lack of consistency in the acceptance of OC by the agents of the state, and by the attack on OC by “common citizens”.

          So why don;t you give me a reason for this inconsistency? If not, then you have simply ceded the field of ideas to me.

        • They tell you what to do and why to do it because they believe themselves to be better than you. They do this because they do not see the hypocrisy. You engage and respond to them, but to what end? Better to move on, because no matter how bright a light you shine on that hypocrisy, they will not see because they refuse to see.

        • In the end Matt, I agree. They are too wedded to their hate and intolerance to see the”obviousness of the truth”.

          I write more for those that can see the hypocrisy, once it is pointed out.

  9. No wonder people hate cops. They’ve turned into a cult of self righteous, condescending douchenozzles who are somehow above the extra Constitutional laws they swear to uphold.

  10. There’s been open carry in Pennsylvania forever, but I’ve never seen it. It just isn’t done here. If I chose to go to the mall with an AR-15 slung over my shoulder, I could easily expect to be the star attraction at a SWAT party in two minutes flat.

    I have to admit, if I saw some guy walking around like that, I would not react with a warm and fuzzy feeling about it. I’d want to get the hell out of there.

    Let’s have a roll call, just for fun. How many people would react to a guy at the mall with an AR-15 with:

    a) A warm, fuzzy feeling.

    b) Want to get the hell out of there.

    No agenda. Just curiosity. Let’s hear it.

    • Certainly not warm-fuzzy. Somewhere in between, call it b-prime: Keep a close eye as long as he’s within sight. Modify that as relates to method of carry… slung on his back, dial it down a little. Low ready? Don’t turn my back on him.

      • Most people who openly display their firearms are usually not statistically the threat. I am statistically more worried about the thugs with the pocket pistols. Sort of like the Steely Dan song Unhand That Gun Begone, There Is No One To Fire Upon, If He’s Holding It High, He’s Telling A Lie.

        • You said firearms, but the question posed and my answer both specifically reference long guns. I would posit that since open carry of rifles is pretty uncommon, the statistics would work to show that it was much more likely that a guy carrying a rifle openly would turn out to be a bad guy than if it was a guy carrying a handgun, whether concealed or openly. For every person carrying a rifle openly, there are probably 100 carrying handguns, concealed or open. Most of the last several media-reported non-gang- or crime-related shootings took place with a rifle of some kind, and seeing someone carrying a rifle is unusual, ergo seeing someone carrying a rifle openly, especially in a populated area, is going to give me exponentially more pause than seeing someone with a holstered pistol.

        • People do carry long guns in certain situations and they just statistically are usually not the threat. End of story.

        • You just made my point. “In certain situations.” The mall is not a “certain situation,” it’s the fucking mall. People do not, on the regular, carry long guns to the mall. People do, however, carry handguns, concealed or openly depending on jurisdiction, not just “in certain situations” but all the goddamn time. That’s the point of “Every Day Carry.” Which is why long guns draw my concern and handguns do not.

        • Which is why long guns draw my concern and handguns do not.

          Would someone carrying a hammer or a baseball bat cause you the same concern as someone carrying a long gun, if seen in this hypothetical mall? Why or why not?

        • Because both of those have uses that you might find in or around a shopping mall? Before you scoff at the baseball bat, one of the malls near me has an old department store with batting cages inside. Beyond that, it’d simply be the commonness those two items, combined with a lesser ability to do great harm quickly. There may very well eventually become a time when rifles rise to the same level of ubiquity, but at this point, they are rare enough to draw my attention. I’m not saying I would SWAT them or call 911 or draw down or even confront them. I’m just saying they’d have my attention.

        • Beyond that, it’d simply be the commonness those two items, combined with a lesser ability to do great harm quickly.

          But the potential for harm is not the same thing as actual likelihood of harm. Long guns are used to commit fewer murders annually than baseball bats and hammers (or empty hands, for that matter). And that’s where we disagree that the mere existence of an openly carried long gun in a mall should be a cause for concern.

          People with nefarious intent generally do not telegraph their intent, and as such are not likely to walk around with a long gun, if they intend to use that long gun to commit violence. And regardless of the object being carried, it would be the attitude and behavior of the person that would be more likely to cause me concern.

          To that end, someone walking around with a long gun slung over the shoulder, carried on the back, who is clearly going about non-violent business (walking through the mall, perusing merchandise, etc.) would cause me no concern whatsoever. But someone visibly agitated (or disturbed), walking around with a hammer (or balled fists) would certainly raise red flags.

        • Long guns are used to commit fewer murders annually than baseball bats and hammers…

          Yes, I’m aware of the statistics. However, the question was specific to “rifle in a mall.” Without even attempting the math, I’m going to wager that more people get killed in malls with rifles than with hammers or bats (or at least the numbers are close to equal), and that’s even without adjusting for the relative numbers of hammers or bats at the mall versus the number of rifles. Equal deaths divided by fewer (potentially) deadly implements means each (potentially) deadly implement has a greater chance of being used for nefarious purposes.

          I’m still not saying it shouldn’t be legal. I’m just saying I don’t see the point.

        • Equal deaths divided by fewer (potentially) deadly implements means each (potentially) deadly implement has a greater chance of being used for nefarious purposes.

          In reality, neither happens with any frequency to be of any concern to the average person. If someone is murdered in a mall, it’s almost certainly to be carried out with a handgun (I’d wager), and almost certainly a gang/drug-related case, or a domestic case.

        • Most of the last several media-reported non-gang- or crime-related shootings took place with a rifle of some kind, …and that is your problem. Trusting the Marxist Media.

        • That’s just an idiotic response. The three examples given by the author of the original quote above were in Austin, Colorado Springs, and San Bernardino, and rifles were used in all three cases. That’s a fact. Are you suggesting the “Marxist Media” made it up? If you are, then this conversation isn’t worth continuing, because you’re clearly delusional.

        • The three examples given by the author of the original quote above were in Austin, Colorado Springs, and San Bernardino, and rifles were used in all three cases.

          These three examples are argumentation from anecdote, and nothing more. If he argues for prior restraint of openly carried long guns based on these anecdotes, then he should be calling for prior restraint of open carry of hammers and baseball bats (and probably boxers and MMA fighters walking around with their empty hands and feet in public). After all: statistically speaking, those things are used to kill more people annually than long guns (carried openly in public or otherwise).

          But speaking of Austin, this also happened in Austin, back before we were a nation of metrosexuals and safe spaces:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman#Shooting_from_the_tower

        • Alternately, and I addressed this in my original answer, method of carry would determine in large part how I would respond. Honestly, if I saw someone in the mall with a slung AR, my next observation would be body language. Are they shopping for socks, or are they walking with a purpose? If they’re shopping for socks, then I’m going to snort in amusement, live and let live. I think it’s stupid, but it’s their choice. Walking with a purpose? That’s going to raise more concern, but still just basically raising an eyebrow, because again, it’s slung. If I saw a mall-ninja carrying at the low ready, I’d feel dramatically differently about the situation, and I wouldn’t really care if he was just shopping for socks. My reaction would again be based on observation –aggressor, provocateur, or just a nimrod? — and would range from open derision (and I’d probably say something) to un-assing the area.

        • Yeah, long guns make up about 2 percent of the “Gun Violence”. You probably have a much greater chance of getting hit by a motorized vehicle. So while everybody watches the guy with the Model 12 shotgun warily, they step out from the curb and get run over by a bus.

        • But again, you’re referring to “gun violence” like a gun-grabber. We’re not talking about “gun violence,” which includes suicides, and gang warfare, and whatever other idiocy the gun-grabbers use to try to increase the numbers. The question was “How would you feel if you saw someone walking around the mall with an AR-15?” and that’s the question I answered.

          Three facts, one conclusion: (1) 100% of mall shootings have happened in malls. (2) Many of those have happened with rifles. (3) Seeing someone carry a rifle in a mall is a very unusual thing, at least in the areas I frequent. Conclusion: Someone carrying a rifle in a mall is cause for concern for me. Not necessarily even alarm (see notes above about body language, etc.), but concern.

    • c) Don’t give a shit

      Some asshole chasing me down to sign a petition or smell a fragrance is a far greater annoyance to me than a guy with a rifle over his shoulder.

      I get that America is a ruined cesspool of an asylum where mental patients have escaped the confines of their short buses to run things but living everyday like your walking on eggshells and cant squeak out a fart without some special interest group suing you or passing legislation to take all your property, restrict your behavior or lock you away from their sick mental society gets really really effin’ old.

      I don’t care one incy bit what the hell anyone else does, carry, own, eats, drinks, smokes, reads, watches or consumes, believes or practices in any way whatsoever as long as it doesnt cause me or my property direct measurable harm and I don’t think it’s is unreasonable, outlandish or “fringe” to expect the same in return.

      • Amen, Shire-man.

        Prior restraint, prohibition, and catering to the nervous special snowflakes who think they have some “right” to be comfortable and “safe” – at other people’s expense and at the risk of other people’s safety… These are the things that are destroying liberty and justice.

        If someone walking down the street with a gun – any kind – actually represents a threat to you or others… deal with it. Otherwise, we all need to mind our own business. 🙁

        • I wish we could all live in a rustic fantasy land like Shire Man, where the worst thing that could happen is an invasion of wolves or dragons, but we don’t.

          It’s ludicrous and childish to believe that it doesn’t matter what anyone else says, does, or thinks. No man is an island.

          “I don’t give a crap about anyone else” is the mode of living of a sociopath. Does the dude ever leave his house?

      • The “Political Correction” movement is starting to have substantial snap- back. People are getting tired of everything being offensive, to everyone; myself included. I think that is what has caused the “Trump phenomenon.”

        Ex-KGB officer Yuri Bezmenov talked about “PC” being the biggest and most effective tool used by Communist to destabilize Nations.

        Once, I realized this, years ago, I decided to stop carrying what people say and think about me in the name of political correctness. I speak my mind regardless of consequence, now.

        Empowering, to say the least.

    • Is the guy wearing dark clothing with a badge showing? Does that matter?

      If he starts pointing the rifle at people, I’ll step behind cover and draw. If he fires, I will look for a shot. If he walks by, I’ll ignore him. Exactly the same as if he had his rifle or pistol concealed. Why should there be a difference?

  11. I’m sure that Open Carry makes a cops job a tiny bit harder, but you know what? That’s their job. It’s like if you got hired to eat a whole bunch of bees. You gonna complain that your mouth got stung? Yeah, no sh!t, you took a job eating bees! Maybe know what you’re getting into before you sign the dotted line.

    • But we all know that if they ban open carry, the Gestapo will use such laws to eventually screw over people performing the activities of which you describe.

  12. I don’t need and excuse to open carry.

    I don’t make excuses for open or concealed carry.

    You don’t like it, suck it up.

    You don’t want to suck it up and quit trying to have people do what YOU want them to and simply realize that other individuals can do what they want, how and when they want and in the manner that they want…as long as it does not harm your Life, your Liberty or your Property?

    Well then, that make YOU a self-centered asshole.

    Simple stuff, really.

  13. I went and read his words out of respect for his service, but coming away from it, I get the impression that he is an elitest, his article is so full of opinion and anecdotes and misrepresentation, that is attempting to use his personal experience as a base for the reality/standard of us all, and measuring everyone to that narrow scope is wrong and it doesn’t work. He is wrong on so many points it’s just sad.

    • He does not believe rifles or pistols belong in civilian hands. He has very obvious extreme contempt for the people he is supposed to work for. I am stunned that this guy is still working as a police officer when he expresses such vitriol to the public. Can you imagine if a doctor posted a hate filled rant about the how his patients are “dipshits” for buying over the counter instead of coming to him for prescription medicine? I guess the difference is that you can choose your doctor, but some poor bastard is going to call 911 and get Chris Hernandez.

        • Hernandez is making the primary boiler plate anti-gun argument right from the disarmament playbook, that carrying a gun is equal to criminal intent.

          “The innocent OCer had killed a bicyclist who happened to ride into the area. The open carrier then walked half a mile down the street and killed a woman on the front porch of a house. Another woman opened the door to see what was going on. The man killed her too. Police arrived minutes later and shot the man.”

          “So next time some OC activist/anti-tyranny warrior thinks he’s defending freedom by waving an AK in your family’s face, those of us who support the 2A and have brains should tell them that fellow innocent open carriers have already committed murders.”

          He is deliberately conflating peaceful open carriers with rampage killers. His examples of OC behavior work just as well against concealed carry. Dylan Roof was an innocent concealed carrier with a handgun and killed people in a church, another absurd statement.

          Hernandez’s gross generalizations implicate all gun carriers as evil pre-criminals which is why the gun control crowd loves this line of attack on lawful gun owners. They use it after every mass shooting. If you can’t see how Hernandez is really attacking all gun rights you must credulously believe Everytown for Gun Sense and other gun control groups are about gun safety and not civil disarmament.

          Hernandez also dances with another big gun control argument, only the State (police and military) should have guns, with his slurs about the “untrained” but I’m tired of copying and pasting the entire article. People should read the article and not rely on others to do their homework for them.

          P.S. This is petty, but it’s killing me, “100% of mall shootings have happened in malls.” Dude.

        • “His examples of OC behavior work just as well against concealed carry.”

          Except he’s talking about OC, and specifically OC of rifles for the sole reason of carrying a rifle.

          “If you can’t see how Hernandez is really attacking all gun rights you must credulously believe Everytown for Gun Sense and other gun control groups are about gun safety and not civil disarmament.”

          I can’t see that, no, but I also don’t believe that strawman bullshit you’re trying to lay off on me.

          Nowhere in that article does he say that he “does not believe rifles or pistols belong in civilian hands.” You’re drawing improper conclusions because you don’t like his opinions on open carry. He actually encourages concealed carry in its place. You might disagree with him, but in your disagreement you’re fabricating things he didn’t say out of whole cloth.

          “This is petty, but it’s killing me, “100% of mall shootings have happened in malls.” Dude.”

          My point was that I was answering a specific question about someone with an AR-15 in a mall, and others were arguing against me using examples and data that were outside the scope of the original question and my answer to it. I was using a tautology to make that point.

        • I apologize for using “yous” when I wrote: “If you can’t see how Hernandez is really attacking all gun rights you must credulously believe Everytown for Gun Sense and other gun control groups are about gun safety and not civil disarmament.” I did not want to say that you, personally, believe xyz. That did turn into a bullshit straw man. I screwed up.

          The point I was trying to make is that Hernandez using B.S. gun control lies that hurt all gun carriers on an easy, unpopular target. To use an impersonal metaphor: Man get permission to demolish one eyesore house, but uses fuel air explosives made by Everytown for Golf Courses. Neighborhood begins to burn. Some residents happy that crappy house is gone. Others fear approaching flames and question the man’s motives. Everytown for Golf Courses prepares for new construction.

  14. I usually have problems carrying my rifles and shotguns concealed. I have tried with a trench coat, but I still print badly.

  15. You know, when I was a kid, it really was not that unusual for people to have rifles and shotguns on their person or in their vehicle. Now, they were not in church with the Model 12 or at the grocery store with the Remington 700, but still it was not unusual to see people along a road, railroad track, or high school with a long gun.

  16. I occasionally open carry my pistol, but I do agree with him regarding carrying a rifle combat- ready. I see it as the equivalent of me walking around with my pistol in my hand. Slung across the back wouldn’t bother me, though.

    • Even overseas, troops don’t carry at low-ready (and not always with a mag inserted) if they’re just walking around the FOB. Slung on the back with a ready magazine in a pouch seems more common, and those who can carry a pistol instead do so. Same with the Israelis and Swiss (who I should point out, only “open carry a rifle” because their military service requires it.)

      Like dressing up in full Klingon costume, go ahead and do it, but don’t get butthurt when you get weird looks when nowhere near a convention.

  17. I think he’s right about one thing:

    “OCing a rifle in a combat ready hold is no different than carrying a pistol out of the holster… It’s a threat of imminent use.”

    I don’t like when I see OC protestors carrying low-ready. I don’t like when I see LE carrying low-ready either.

    • Bingo. Especially in a Stand Your Ground state, having a rifle at low ready is an invitation to be shot dead. We talk of suicide by cop, but suicide by nervous armed citizen is just as stupid.

      Here’s smart: the only time I ever saw rifles in a mall, they were slung over shoulders, barrel up, and the barrels had those little flowers commonly given out on Memorial day sticking out of the end. They were open carrying, but communicating they weren’t a threat.
      (I know, a terrorist could use that as a ruse to look unthreatening, but it was still a lot less threatening than without the flowers.)

      • You really saw people carrying rifles with flowers stuck in the muzzles, and it was just EDC?

        What do you even say to that, besides “Those people are crazy!”

        Maybe they where trying to express solidarity with the Ohio National Guard.

      • And unlike my other examples, if I saw that guy with the flower, I’d give him a nod or “right on.” Of course, it’s not the flower, it’s everything else… body language, shopping for socks, etc.

      • Chris Hernandez has authored a few pieces for TTAG in the past. A couple of them were cop stories from his blog, and the last one I remember was for one of his books, he posted the first chapter here.

        From my recollection on that book chapter, he’s a talented writer, really put the reader into the story, ‘fell into the page’ kinda thing.

        • Robert openly carries a pistol. According to Chris Hernandez, that is comparable to gonorrhea or syphilis. LOL

    • Ah, ignorance!

      In a good swath of the country, folks with Spanish-sounding names were there first, before statehood, and it’s those with northern-European names that are the newcomers.

      It’s good Christian fashion to treat them all with the same respect you’d give descendants of the first white settler in an area (if not more).

    • I wonder if you’ve served your country as long as that “Mexican” did in places as lovely as Iraq (I) and Afghanistan.

  18. “Rifle OC doesn’t show us freedom-hating cops that the citizens are armed and capable of resisting tyranny…”

    Us… Freedom-hating… cops…

    Was I the only who caught that comment? I hope that was out of context, but I cannot think of a single context where I would align my self with “freedom-hating” of any kind.

    If you hate “freedom”, then I hate you – like for like.

    • Pretty sure it was sarcasm, because he knew that someone would inevitably say that upon reading his article. Notice some of the comments here:

      “So what gives with these wanna-be martial lawists?”

      “… lets the mask slip just enough to see what’s going on…Him being a cop is even worse…So it’s ok to OC if you wear blue and carry a badge, just not for the peasants.”

      etc…

      • OK. Sarcasm is a horse of a different color.

        I, admittedly, don’t read the full articles often. Not because I don’t care, but because I don’t want to increase ad revenue for organizations I may not support.

        Today, though, it was pure Saturday morning laziness.

  19. This and all the comments are just altogether bothersome. I like to OC, I don’t like the stigma associated with it.

    We just got OC here in Texas and before we did that our very own made it look like the only people who OC are assholes.

    I like to OC cause it’s just more comfortable and accessible to me than CC. What I don’t want to do is be looked at like an asshole or a threat or the type of indignant firearms owner that inspired this very quote. Yes, I do care what random people think about me, in most part for the sake of society but also because I don’t like getting hassled or like to feel uncomfortable going about my day to day business.

    My theory was when this came to pass in Texas, eventually, at some point, it would be around enough that it would normalize firearms a bit more. People would just endearingly remark, “Oh, Texas…” like it’s a thing we do like when we talk about big stuff or ride horses to work (we don’t, but that’d be cool, too). That idea is already beginning to slip though, less than two months in. I’ll continue to OC, but I do it very sparingly, and it’s been easy to convince myself when I can hide it under my jacket, but those cold-weather days are coming to an end. I suppose I’ll see…

  20. The author conveniently overlooked one thing. For those who are 18-20 years of age. A long arm is their ONLY option for bearing arms in public as TX doesn’t issue to the average person under 21.

    He should do his homework next the.

    • Truth, friend.

      You can own a handgun, as young as 16, I believe, as long as it was gifted, due to not being legally old enough to buy one. But, carrying a handgun is not allowed without license, and you cannot get an LTC until 21.

      So, for 3 year (18-20), it’s long gun or SOL.

  21. The Open Carry Movement is a small part of the Gun Rights Movement. Of the two, Gun Rights is more popular than “look at me and my semi-auto rifle” or “look at me and my cool-looking holster rig” (etceteras).

    Also overall, the right to bear arms has made great progress in 80% of the states in this country over the last 25 years. The OC people are good people, I’ve met quite a few now and they are not disturbing to me at all. What the fringe Gun Grudge people feel and say is of little importance to me. Let the Open Carry People also carry their own message. Let them sink or swim on their own merits – they aren’t really unstable or stupid or anything like that.

    The Gun Grudge People are also minor when viewed objectively. They support Democrats consistently but that too has only been over the past 25 years – when the Clintons arrived in national politics. The Democrats overall only have 31% of the voters and neither party has a true majority of voters on their side. 42% of voters are actually Independents but the Press calls them “swing voters” – dismissing them when they should be recognized as the group which needs convincing on ANY issue.

    I’m very proud of my beautiful rifles. But I don’t walk around in public with one slung over my shoulder. It’s about what society sees as appropriate behavior. People who have never owned a gun get upset when they see people carrying rifles in public. But most of those kinds of people have no problem at all socializing with me when they know I carry concealed every damned day. If you ARE sane, then dress and behave like you ARE sane. It’s a pretty simple, practical concept.

  22. “Breach”, “Bang”, “Clear”??? Really, that’s some real wacker popo BS there.

    Shaved dome, check
    Scraggly beard, check
    $100 shades, check.
    Milspec wacker threads/gear, check
    Gluck 9mm, check
    MRAP, check
    lets go shoot some dogs.

  23. By the way, I agree with the author on one point:

    OCing a rifle in a combat ready hold is no different than carrying a pistol out of the holster. It’s no different than holding an axe over your head, ready to swing. It’s a threat of imminent use.

    Carrying != “handling”. Carry on, all you want, however you want. But keep your hands off, and especially out of the danger zone. Don’t carry low ready. Don’t carry “civilian low ready” (i.e. slung over the shoulder, hands on the grips, pointed down). Don’t have your hands on or near the grips or trigger, at all. Don’t give the implication that you could use it imminently.

    However, the author goes a step too far, by conflating handling of a carried long gun, with any and all carry of a long gun:

    OCers can’t argue they’re brave anti-government warriors showing their willingness to shoot it out with police, then say walking around with a rifle is harmless.

    Also, on that point: a firearm owned and carried (openly or concealed) by every law-abiding citizen who chooses to own/carry one, should be an implied statement to the State, that law-abiding citizens are ready to act against any threat of state tyranny. It isn’t a threat; it is matter of fact.

    We are not harmless, nor do we need to pretend to be. But we are also law-abiding.

  24. I see the cancer in TTAG’s comment section is alive and well.

    Chris Hernandez is a veteran of both the Marine Corps and the Army National Guard who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is also a veteran police officer of two decades who spent a long deployment as part of a UN police mission in Kosovo.

    Y’all need to check yourselves before you starting screaming nice things like FOAD.

    • So he’s a militant tool who useful for destruction. He acts with extreme arrogance, and belittles the people whose taxes have supported him his entire life. Then laments why people hate cops.

      It seems like he should’ve stuck to doing our nations dirty work overseas. I think he would be happier, and we would be safer.

    • Obama is a constitutional lawyer and how is that working out for the 2nd Amendment? Maybe an appeal to authority is a poor way to make an argument about abridging rights?

    • I feel no need to hold my tongue around someone because he believes his rights don’t apply to me. I spent 20 in the military, in 3 wars, and I don’t think that gives me any right to tell others what to do or say. Why he thinks I care what he says, I couldn’t say, but I don’t much care about his service as a reason to listen to childish crap. RKBA is a RIGHT, and he and all others should stop treating it as a fashion accessory or a generous gift from an all-powerful government. If someone starts shooting a gun in a mall, it’s time to act. If someone is carrying a gun in a mall, who cares? That is his right.

  25. Wow-lot’s of “new” nom de plumes today. Never seen again? Until the next bruhaha…I’m pro-open carry. The azzwholes and douchebags I quite often see are the boyz in blue. But then again I live in Illinois very close to the Indiana border. Yeah cut it out-po-leece…

  26. Yeah well, we’re winning and you’re losing. Most LE are pro gun rights and you don’t even realize it. They’re just never advertised in the media, or here, for that matter.

  27. The reality is that the OP is simply under the mistaken opinion that he is the “Big Man” everywhere he goes. He seems to have forgotten that bit about the “consent of the governed”, and power derived “from the people”. He simply doesn’t like being outgunned on the street where he is not allowed to open carry a long gun, which is of course ironic, since that is the entire point and purpose of the 2nd amendment. I’m increasingly of the opinion that there must be some “Officer Shrinkage Factor” whenever they see a gun that isn’t under their control, or see one larger than the one they have. Maybe if he’d just relax he might realize that OCers are a statistical non-entity insofar as crime is concerned, especially long gun OCers.

  28. I agree. Rifles being carried openly does nothing but frighten people. I open carry a pistol o rather slightly conceal. I would definitely speak to someone with a rifle.

    • I agree. Rifles being carried openly does nothing but frighten people. I open carry a pistol o rather slightly conceal. I would definitely speak to someone with a rifle.

      Those two are pretty much mutually exclusive. If you would approach and talk to someone openly carrying a rifle, then that rifle being carried openly does not frighten you.

  29. What you seem to forget sir, is the fact that the Constitution says The freedom to keep and bear arms, Shall not be infringed! Has nothing in there about carrying a rifle or a pistol openly! I work with officers In my small town in Florida On a day to day basis at our shop. They take an oath to defend the Constitution with their lives and they take that very seriously. Not just certain parts of the Constitution but the entire Constitution! You need to realize that being a law enforcement officer that you are both into defending the Constitution with your life sir. And for you to come out and say some silly crap like what you just put up there is absolutely horrendous.You need to reread your operations handbook And the part about the oath of office that you took, And stop being a little baby about Legal rights in this country I don’t care if you are an officer of the law you’re an ass!

    • Just because something is LEGAL- even a Constitutional right- doesn’t mean everyone needs to embrace it.

      Have you burned your flag today in support of the 1st Amendment?

    • Constitutional Rights do not require camouflage.

      if that hurts anyone’s emo-feelz, too bad.

      Constitutional rights also don’t require your approval.

      If that hurts your innate need to control the behaviors of others, too bad.

  30. To the OC’s: That did not work too well in Oregon recently but let’s face it, most citizens are uneducated, and the OC’s go around with super arrogant attitudes. “I know my rights” goes their mantra but they have no idea of what those rights are. Worst, if you try to start an intelligent conversation on the subject, they get dangerously hostile. Most are just repeating stuff some demagogue puts in their small brains since most cannot read or understand what they read. I don’t stand people with low IQ’s too well, as a consequence I have very few friend if any. All I know is that I see an OC moron strutting around like a bird of paradise, I know who to shoot first in case of emergency or suspicious behavior. I am a Conceal Carrier and do not care that others know I carry. The old west is gone and there is no reason to bring it back. Let’s face it, who are they trying to impress, certainly not me. I am a retired federal law enforcement officer and retired army officer and I am for the 2A just like I am for the rest of the Bill of Rights even though I do not believe that every one should have the right to vote, own firearms and I am an atheist but these morons are not doing themselves or the rest of gun enthusiasts any favors with their idiotic attitudes that results in negative publicity. Just look at many of the responses in this section, they quote the 2A in response and insults are their only arguments. No logic, and no sanity. Leave open carry for the field when hunting in a rural area not for inside the city or a restaurant or a store or a good neighborhood, The exploits of Wild Bill, Earp, Masterson and et al were over a 100 years ago and today’s OC cannot come close to emulating these men nor there is a any need to.

    • “Leave open carry for the field when hunting in a rural area not for inside the city or a restaurant or a store or a good neighborhood”

      Once again, we have a contributor who has forgotten to advise us why we should care what he wants us to do. Much less comply. I will leave OC for when I feel like it, and it is legal. When you or anyone else thinks it’s OK does not enter into the decision.

      • With all due respect (and I endorse your right to OC) but just because some is legal does not make it good or full of common sense. Our nation is full of these laws and they are too many to mention but an intelligent person should see the truth of it. Maybe my point of view or yours may not be the best but the truth lies somewhere in between. A common sense approach is better than an attitude of “I do it just because I can and the hell with what others may think” which does not always apply. What is good for TX is not necessarily good for other parts of the country separated by distance, and culture (East vs West vs North vs South et al). Can you imaging OC in NYC? Vermont in North East is an exception due to its particular culture an they do not even issue conceal permits because the 2A is exercised there in it purest form. So for what it’s worth, before you answer and invest yourself in the armor of the US Constitution in absolute terms, give some strong logical thought. I am finish with line of though so whatever you think, just post it if you wish but it is without consequence at this point since your mind, just like mine, is made and probably will not change unless the mind is open to practical and logical arguments devoid of senseless emotion. I will refrain from further comment as I found it has become a useless endeavor trying to reach monolithic minds. Good luck to you and others like you (well, no really).

    • Driving in the left lane and failing to yield the lane to faster drivers is inconsiderate because it impedes those faster drivers.

      Unlike that analogy, in what way does an open carrier impede you on the conduct of your affairs, or otherwise interfere with you or your exercise of rights?

      Perhaps a better analogy would be breastfeeding in public: lawful, and perfectly legitimate, but it just makes you feel uncomfortable, so you consider it to be “inconsiderate.”

      • It may be illegal, but actual enforcement of that rule is basically 0.0% (any such incidents being a rounding error).

        I may have seen “Keep Right Except To Pass” enforced on a trucker once (after I passed him on the right on an otherwise empty interstate he got pulled over), just months after we started using that sign (instead of the weaker “Slower Traffic Keep Right,” which dickheads who think it’s their job to enforce the speed limit can rationalize around). I certainly haven’t seen one since.

  31. Wow, that was one angry, paranoid $hitpost.
    Smearing open gun carriers by comparing them with nuts going on rampages, like we never heard that argument before against all gun owners.
    “But until he actually started shooting people, he was a law-abiding open carrier.” Hey genius, all criminals are law abiding before they commit a crime. A guy concealing a gun in a store is legal until he holds up the store.
    “Another brave OCer carried an AR-15, with a hundred-round drum no less, into an airport to drop off his daughter.” I guess we know who supports capacity limits.
    “OC a pistol if you must (that’s not such a good idea either, but relatively speaking it’s the difference between gonorrhea and syphilis).” Sorry OC pistol guys, you are disgusting too. I guess CC guys just don’t know they are diseased.
    I guess this guy, Chris Hernandez is having his big anti-gun coming out of the closet party. His arguments are boilerplate Everytown stuff. Remember not all cops are stupid dipshits to use his words but a lot of them are.

  32. My take on the article is that he’s trying to discourage OCing an AR at the low ready. A guy walking in the door like that, especially with his hands on it, is just asking for a miscalculation. OC a long gun all you want, just sling it on your back in the urban or suburban setting.

    • Read the article again. “Leave your rifle at home…You and your rifle don’t do anything except make yourselves look like self-centered assholes.”

    • You’re exactly right Bob, and the choice of a single point sling by some of these Chipolte Ninja type idiots as their tacti-cool means to carry the rifle only exacerbates the very real chance for miscalculation since with a single point sling the rifle is prone to move around dangling and bouncing in front of as you walk and it’s almost an involuntary reaction to place one hand on the grip and the other on the handguard to stabilize the rifle which could easily be perceived as low ready. Low ready carry with a single point and both hands on the rifle is exactly what CJ Grisham was doing to alarm residents in the neighborhood where he was “hiking” with his son and persisted in doing when approached, restrained, and arrested after resisting the lawful attempt by the responding police officer to disarm him. Luckily, incidents of Texans dumb enough to waltz around in public carrying an AR slung or carried at low ready are almost nonexistent.

  33. This hypocrite rants against open carry, yet he open carries daily for his job. As someone who only benefits from government having increased power, his opinion is worthless.

  34. Well, it is “Officer Friendly’s” job to discriminate among four different things and respond accordingly. It ain’t the gun, it’s what you’re doing with it. Addressing “open carry” just gets him off the hook of having to know what’s going on, and make a decision.

    – Wandering around all tacti-cool on zombie-patrol is probably not so helpful. It ain’t the gun, it’s comporting yourself like you are going to use it.

    Officer Friendly ought to be able to notice who’s doing this, and deliver a convincing “Lighten up, Francis.”

    – Open carrying guns is often a political statement, something profoundly protected in this country. This isn’t a problem, it’s the point.

    Officer Friendly ought to be able to notice the slogans, tricorn hats & Gadsden flags, so he can deliver a sincere: “Good on you.” Preserving “safe space” to express political opinions is one reason we retain Officer Friendly’s services.

    – Casually slinging a gun present for other reasons is just that: not about the gun.

    Officer Friendly ought to be able to notice the other business that someone with a gun is about, say getting a cup of coffee or a doughnut, which is not unheard of among officers, open-carrying their guns. So, he ought to get it.

    – The fourth case is someone doing something nefarious. Officer Friendly needs to be able to notice the nefariousness & address that, gun or not.

    In the end it seems like Officer Friendly is bothered by having to figure out what people are up to & responding accordingly vs. getting a convenient “Did the bad human have a bad, bad gun?” checkbox on his form 27b / 6.

  35. You have to think….someone walking with their hands on their weapon at the low ready is very alarming and that would make anyone jumpy….the jist is that they look like they’re looking for a confrontation….just ready to pop off….i agree that if you’re going to open carry any weapon…keep your hands off it unless there’s a legit threat

  36. Nothing anyone anyone says about cocksure (private citizen) OCers does not also apply to cops. They’re just PO’d they don’t have a monopoly on firearms, anymore. Same butt hurt titty baby B.S. scorn the old line media heaps on Internet bloggers and journos. The club’s wide open now, baby!

    So quit your figgin’ bellyachin’! OC is here to stay and greater firearms freedom is on the way!

    • You’re so full of $#!T Jonathan. The overwhelming majority of Texas Peace Officers encourage and recommend the lawful carrying of firearms by their civilian friends and family members but care enough to honestly inform them about the advantages of concealed carry (preferably concealed on their person at all times when in public or at least in their vehicle), as well as the disadvantages of open carry in all but a very limited set of circumstances and locations.

      As far as your ridiculous comment, ” They’re just PO’d they don’t have a monopoly on firearms, anymore”. Are you really that stupid? To suggest that until the open carry law took effect on 1-1-16, LEO’s in Texas had a “monopoly” on carrying firearms is an outright lie, concealed carry became law in Texas over two decades ago.

      The real butt hurt about our new open carry law in Texas is that felt by an insignificant minority that remains barred from open carry due to their delinquent status in child support payments and/or property taxes which makes them ineligible for the Texas Handgun License required to partake in lawful concealed or open carry in The Lone Star State.

  37. Lot of strawmen here…only this time, it’s people ignoring what this man says, for the purpose of then claiming they agree with him. Odd, that.

    If this guy’s rant had been against low ready carry of rifles (like people are thinking of when they allude to the Chipotle Ninjas–who, ironically, weren’t Chipotle Ninjas), he might have a legitimate point, however he lumps ALL carry of rifles together, then implies pistol OC is only different in degree. You know, Pistol OC is to Rifle OC like gonorrhea is to syphilis.

    My personal policy–and you can take it for what its worth and I’m certainly not making demands on anyone else–is to carry a pistol in a holster. Sometimes open, sometimes not, more dependent on weather than anything else. I don’t see much point in rifle carry 99% of the time, so I don’t do it. I’ve done demonstrations (how about an open carry march of hundreds through a Colorado town for the fourth of July?) and I’ve done wilderness rifle carry…at which point, it’s slung until use is required. In the former case I’m in public and in my judgment my purpose in demonstrating is not served by looking unkempt or threatening, so I don’t.

    A rational person can use his own judgment, and decide what mode of carry will serve his purposes. He shouldn’t have someone else ordering him about on the issue. (On the other hand, well-meant advice may or may not be helpful. This article, however, ain’t it.)

  38. Open Carry in Texas is shaking out in a nearly identical fashion as it did for our neighbors to the north in Oklahoma, it might be legal but only a minuscule percentage of handgun licensees have thus far opted for open carry and after giving it a try most of those will revert back to concealed carry after the new wears off and they grow tired of constant “you’re a dumb@$$” glances from fellow Texans and navigating around 30.07 signs posted at businesses.

    Just as common sense prevailed when concealed carry became Texas law two decades ago, the same goes for the new Texas open carry law, which is why the number of handgun licensees opting for open carry is next to nothing, I’ve yet to spot the first in my Texas hometown of 25,000 or in multiple trips to the Dallas and Houston metro areas. Believe me, I’ve been looking but there’s just so few of them out there that actual sightings are rare, sighting an idiot openly carrying a rifle is even rarer still but that’s nothing new since open carry of long guns has always been legal in Texas.

    Open carry in Texas is good because it makes it so easy to spot the rare armed dumb@$$ and proves that common sense prevails in the Lone Star State.

    • Sorry Warlocc, the only response openly displaying a pistol on your hip in Texas will elicit is the frequent “you’re a dumb@$$” glance from fellow Texans, not a call to repeal the 2nd amendment. Too funny that after all the hype, the number of Texas handgun licensees who’ve actually opted for openly carrying a handgun is next to nothing, which proves the open carry obsessed are a minuscule and insignificant percentage of lawfully armed Texans.

    • Uh, no, we can think you’re mistaking a tool for a fashion accessory without needing to amend anything. 1st Amendment, and all that.

  39. But how are dudes with nothing else going for them supposed to get mad views on their you-tube channel without randomly open carrying and ar-15 down a crowded street on a busy Sunday afternoon?

  40. From where I am standing it’s not the guy with the rifle that is the asshole ! If you don’t like it,then that is TFB.

  41. Openly carrying anything aside from a handgun makes you look silly. I’m totally fine with looking silly if it means I get to carry a beautiful laminated 91/30 around.

  42. Heck, I OC’d this morning, but I only do it when I go to the range (pistol on my hip, everything else in cases).

    • Equating a firearm to a penis (see also: same from the antis, along with their silly pejorative, “ammosexual”) only serves to demonstrate your own, personal psychological issues. You should consider seeking help.

  43. Why is it the folks that OC long arms are generally the ones you wish would keep their gun ownership secret?

    It’s always the same sort of morons:
    * mall ninja / insurrectionist guy
    * dick waver / attention whore guy
    * “I got my rights. I’ll show you!” guy

    If you’re going to OC as a political statement at least take the time to shower, shave, and wear clothes that don’t make you look like a glue huffing trailer monkey who masturbates to Red Dawn on a regular basis. And just stop with the ARs on single point slings. It only makes the sheeple think your a dangerous jackass and makes people like me think Mozambique Drill.

  44. The idea here is to desensitize the soft, cringe at anything gun populous, to law abiding people carrying firearms like times not that long ago. To help “the people” grasp the concept that some one intent on criminal armed action are not going to deliberately draw that kind of attention to themselves. When was the last time you saw a “gang banger” walking down the steet with a long gun tucked in their baggy waist band? Or a mass shooter walking to the scene with all their tactical gear, or either of those two riding the bus in that manner?

    • The full article linked starts by pointing out multiple example of people who went from “open-carrying” rifles to murdering people and apparently didn’t care about drawing attention to themselves.

  45. Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it should be done. We don’t live in the 3rd world or a war zone, it is totally not normal to bring an AR into a coffee shop. In a rural area hunting do whatever,(hell I have open carried on private land) but most people and OC GTG’s are not on rural back roads, they are in Starbucks in populated cities.

    I totally agree with the author and I have said it on a number of occasions. OC does nothing to help our cause. Me donating money to the CCDL lawsuit helps, calling politicians and telling them we care helps, showing normal people who are not really gun owners that 2A is worth fighting for helps.

    Bringing my AR to pick up a coffee doesn’t do anything but scare the people around me. And quite frankly that’s a good thing, the US is a safe civilized country. I would not want to live in some s**t hole of a country where you carry a rifle around all the time. Since the US is a safe country where you don’t see people with rifles…no matter how many OC GTG’s they have..that’s not going to change, sorry its just not.

    Chris-

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