“Connecticut officers who drew their stun guns on the job last year were more likely to fire when the suspect was black or Hispanic, according to a first-of-its-kind set of statistics that could stoke the nation’s debate over race and police use of force,” abcnews.go.com reports, stoking the nation’s debate over race and police use of force. Not that we’re not doing the same thing. ‘Cause I’m tired of people playing the race card. Cops should enforce the law equally. Period. If they don’t, they should be fired. (Don’t get me started on police unions.) Anyway, are some cops racists? Most cops? If so, what should be done about it?

109 Responses to Question of the Day: Are Police Racists?

  1. there’s really nothing we can do. basically the only way to stop racism is mind reading and thought crimes. he can say he is not racist and keep in mind just how many minorities he has arrested then just arrest a few white people and he’s in the clear. besides, there are PLENTY of white people who get beat and shot by police for no reason but those just don’t make headlines so no one cares. Take Bundy for example, he rushed the cop just like Brown did and now he’s dead. wheres the outrage for the dead white guy?

  2. This is a political football, because every time it’s pointed out that certain ethnic groups are overrepresented in terms of convictions for violent crimes then the response is, they get convicted more frequently because the police/judges/juries are racist. It becomes a giant circular argument.

    There is a criminal subculture in America composed of petty criminals who commit violent crimes, and as with any subculture it has it’s own distinctive manner of dress, speech, etc. If someone represents themselves in a manner consistent with that, I would expect them to get a negative response from police and the general public.

    That doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of people who commit violent crimes that don’t “fit the profile” or that everyone who does is a violent criminal.

    Now I know that is going to get everyone on their high horse, but get real – if someone walks into a bank wearing a skimask (with no intention of robbing the bank) – they are going to be handled roughly, and the whole “why can’t I wear a skimask into the bank, this is America, racccciiiiiisssssstttttttt” argument just becomes stupid at that point.

    If you dress and act like a criminal, people around you (whether they are cops or not) are going to treat you with a certain amount of trepidation. That’s just the way human beings function in the real world.

    And it has nothing to do with skin color, it’s about culture. A well dressed person, of any ethnicity, isn’t going to be treated like a person of any ethnicity who is dressed like they are about to rob a convenience store.

    Please contribute your flames below:

  3. So in order to move into a post-racial world we just have to focus harder on race?

    I am really not sure what the linked article is trying to say regarding race, they say things like 80 percent of the time the officers didn’t shoot/zap when the suspect was white, then say that a majority of the shootings/zappings happened in areas that were predominately black. If there are more blacks in an area that has high crime then simple math will tell you that more blacks are going to get shot/zapped. If there were more Asians in an area with high crime then more Asians would be getting shot/zapped. Duh.

    The article then goes on to say that 540 people died from being tazzed over a 12 year period. That was all of the states, not just the state in the article. Can’t quite figure out how that is relevant to the story but thanks for sharing that disconnected data point.

    • “… If there are more blacks in an area that has high crime then simple math will tell you that more blacks are going to get shot/zapped…”

      PLEASE STOP using logic. It has no place as a comment on the original MSM article that wants to promote a racist narrative.

      The nerve of some people…………

    • I also never understood that either, the double standard. Race doesn’t matter! Then. Race is so important it is at the heart of nearly all issues! So which is it? Can we pick one already?

      I was taught my entire childhood by my family and schooling that race isn’t important in judging a person’s worth. Boy was it a rude awakening when I got old enough to see the extreme value and scrutiny placed on race by the very people who cry racism.

    • >> So in order to move into a post-racial world we just have to focus harder on race?

      We need to be conscious of where and when race affects decisions today, so that we can create a world where there are no decisions that are so affected tomorrow.

      If a study shows racial bias – even unconscious – that’s a problem that needs to be dealt with. It doesn’t mean that the solution is for cops to start giving more conscious lenience by race (though some people claim that it is – that is basically the gist of affirmative action, conscious counterbias to counter the existing subconscious bias – but I personally don’t believe that it’s right precisely because it’s self-contradictory and ultimately just going around in circles). It does mean that the cops need to be aware that they do have that subconscious bias, need to stop denying that, and need to work on removing it – which can only be done through education and training (and yes, further stat gathering to keep track of progress).

  4. Every human is racist – or prejudiced, or whatever – to some degree. We’re hard-wired to be tribal. It doesn’t have to be skin color, but often it is simply because that’s a very easy thing to see at a distance. While I don’t think we’re born with any given prejudice, we quickly and subconsciously pick them up as we grow up.

    The real questions, in my mind, are, first, do we acknowledge this; second, do we make an effort to understand our own biases; and third, do we make a conscious decision to try to account for those biases when they could influence our actions.

    And last, do we make a big production about how we’re not prejudiced, or do we just get on with the job of trying to be better human beings?

    • First let’s get our words straight. Stop falling for the leftist re-defining of words. RACIST until the recent redefinition, has meant one who believes that a different race was inferior to another. FULL STOP.

      The left has re-defined ‘racist’ to mean ‘anyone who doesn’t agree with whatever position the left is currently proclaiming’.

      You can be prejudiced (pre-judging someone or something based upon a pre-conceived opinion), you can be biased (holding a particular opinion, not necessarily supported by facts) and you can simply have an opinion supported by experience and not necessarily applicable universally. ALL of which do not necessarily make you a ‘racist’. Especially if you do not hold the opinion based upon the original definition of the word.

      Words have MEANING. So let’s stop this crap with letting the leftists take control of the argument by making language so unspecific that words become meaningless.

      • You don’t have to believe that one race is inferior to be racist, you just have to be prejudiced in any way whatsoever. To believe someone is more inclined to do something or feel a certain way, based on the color of their skin, is racist.
        For instance, assuming a black guy likes rap is racist, even if you could prove that the majority of fans of rap music are black. Assuming that a white guy likes hockey is racist, regardless of how many white guys like hockey. The statistical facts may be true, and you may be able to accurately guess an individual’s preference based simply on known statistics, but it’s still judging an individual by a quality that is totally unrelated (correlation != causation). Now, you may not have a problem if you assume that a black guy likes rap (and are wrong), but if you assume he’s a criminal because he dresses and acts like a thug and he’s in a black neighborhood, and you shoot him when he’s done nothing wrong, you may end up in hot water.

        • No, that is not true. Prejudice does not equal racist unless your prejudice makes you believe that their entire race is indeed inferior, then you are racist. Prejudice and racism have two separate meanings.

          Prejudice = preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience
          Racism = the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races

          In fact, believing a black person likes rap because he’s black may not even make you prejudice, because if most of the black people you’ve known have liked rap, then your experience is showing that most black people like rap. Neither prejudice nor racist.

  5. Wow. This is what I don’t like about these less lethal devices, it seems this might encourage some officers to use a lot less restraint in deploying them than they might need to use when deploying a firearm. Officer friendly there didn’t even give a chance for the guy to say ‘don’t taze me bro’.

    What I mean is the thinking that – it’s not a gun and it’s only going to hurt the target and not kill him, so why not pull it out and fire away!

    Mind you I am generalizing and many officers will be able to use the tool effectively and obviously some wont.

    But what happened to a little attention, common sense and simple human interaction? How many times do we have situations that could be handled with words and perhaps a little physical direction that are simply easier for the cop to just pull out the stun gun and get the call over with?

    More than zero, certainly.

    Not to mention the cops who pull out the Glock when intending to deploy the stun gun, with the resultant unwanted results.

    • The way the guy got out of the truck and pointed at the officer while yelling… It certainly looked like he could have been drawing a gun to me.

      Not to mention that seeing this guy just drop like that… Well it put a smile on my face. Maybe I’m a terrible person, but some people need a serious attitude adjustment. Tens of thousands of volts can do that pretty well.

      • But did he need to be tazed? What would officer friendly have done if he didn’t have the tazer, draw on and shoot the guy? Yea, I don’t mean to be second guessing in this particular case, the dude was obviously being an a-hole, I’m really asking the question more generally here.

        Yes, the po po do have to put up with endless amounts of crazy unpredictable citizens, not disputing that. Maybe if we actually locked up and kept locked up, the murderous gang bangers so that there were a lot fewer of them out and about to deal with, the police might be able to trust and respect the average citizen a little bit more.

      • I instantly tunnel visioned on that guys hand trying to see if there was something in it and I was only watching a video! The guy is lucky he isn’t dead.

      • Ever heard of per capita basis? The facts (not being racist, just stating FBI facts): Blacks are 16% of the population but commit 28% of all crimes. They also commit much more violent crime per capita than any other race:

        49% of all murders are by blacks
        33% of all rapes
        55% of all robbery
        34% of all agg assault
        31% of all burglary

        Blacks on a per capita basis commit about 5-6x as much violent crime as whites. I think it’s fair to say that Cops are more afraid of blacks because of the discrepancy between violent crime rates of the races. I don’t know if that is right or wrong, but it is the reality.

        Source: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

        • Well…

          According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, among youths aged 12 to 17, the rate of current illicit drug use was 11.1 % among whites, and 9.3% among African Americans. [1] In a previous year, the same survey found that white youth aged 12 to17 are more than a third more likely to have sold drugs than African American youth. [2] 

          The Monitoring the Future Survey of high school seniors shows that white students annually use cocaine at 4.6 times the rate of African Americans students, use crack cocaine at 1.5 times the rate of African Americans students, and use heroin at the same rate of African Americans students, and that white youth report annual use of marijuana at a rate 46% higher than African American youth. [3] 

          However African American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate (African American 314 per 100,000, white 175 per 100,000) times that of whites, [4]and African American youth represent nearly half (48%) of all the youth incarcerated for a drug offense in the juvenile justice system. [5]

          Weapons. According to the Center on Disease Control’s annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, in 2001 whites and African Americans reported similar rates of carrying a weapon (whites 17.9%, African Americans 15.2%), and similar rates of carrying a gun (whites 5.5%, and African Americans, 6.5%). [6] African American youth represent 32% of all weapons arrests, and were arrested for weapons offenses at a rate twice that of whites (69 per 100,000, versus 30 per 100,000). [7]

          Assault. According to the Center on Disease Control’s annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, African Americans report being in a physical fight at a similar rate (36.5%, versus 32.5% for whites), but were arrested for aggravated assault at a rate nearly three times that of whites (137 per 100,000, versus 48 per 100,000).

          Footnotes-

          ·[1] Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. (2005). Results from the 2004 National Survey on Drug Use and Health: National Findings (Office of Applied Studies, NSDUH Series H-28, DHHS Publication No. SMA 05-4062). Rockville, MD 

          ·[2] National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, 1999. Washington, D.C.: The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Office of Applied Studies, Table G. 71, 2000. 

          ·[3] Johnston, L. D., O’Malley, P. M., Bachman, J. G., & Schulenberg, J. E. (2005). Demographic subgroup trends for various licit and illicit drugs, 1975-2004. (Monitoring the Future Occasional Paper No. 61). Ann Arbor, MI: Institute for Social Research. 411 pp. “Contrary to popular assumption, at all three grade levels African-American youth have substantially lower rates of use of most licit and illicit drugs than do Whites.” Johnston, L. D., O’Malley, 

          ·[4] Arrests of youth, by race, from Crime in the United States, 2001. (2002). Washington, DC: Federal Bureau of Investigations.; Population of youth from Puzzanchera, C., Finnegan, T. and Kang, W. (2005). “Easy Access to Juvenile Populations” Online. Available: http://www.ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/ezapop/ 

          ·[5] Sickmund, Melissa, Sladky, T.J., and Kang, Wei. (2004) “Census of Juveniles in Residential Placement Databook.” Online. Available: http://www.ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/cjrp/ 

          ·[6] Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance —- United States, 2003 Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, June 28, 2002 / 51(SS04);1-64

          ·[7] Arrests of youth, by race, from Crime in the United States, 2001. (2002). Washington, DC: Federal Bureau of Investigations.; Population of youth from Puzzanchera, C., Finnegan, T. and Kang, W. (2005). “Easy Access to Juvenile Populations” Online. Available: http://www.ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/ezapop/

        • tl;dr:

          White kids and black kids commit crimes at roughly similar rates (though sometimes whites are more criminal) but black kids get arrested way more, are convicted more often and are sentenced more harshly.

        • So, one study that says white teens use a tiny bit more drugs than black teens (self reporting) and you’re ready to say that blacks commit less violent crime on a per capita basis than whites? And self reported fights? Ha! Who hasn’t been in at least one fight or altercation as a kid in middle school? You can’t extrapolate any of those 3 minor items in that survey out to actual violent crime refuting years and years of actual data.

          That little survey proves nothing. None of that survey information means squat when it comes to actual violent crime since it has nothing to do with violent crime, and these surveys are not even a tiny blip on the radar.

        • >> So, one study that says white teens use a tiny bit more drugs than black teens (self reporting) and you’re ready to say that blacks commit less violent crime on a per capita basis than whites?

          No. What he said is that drugs sell and use less drugs per capita than whites, but are arrested more for selling and using drugs per capita: Quote:

          “rate of current illicit drug use was 11.1 % among whites, and 9.3% among African Americans. ”

          “frican American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate (African American 314 per 100,000, white 175 per 100,000) times that of whites,”

          Which indicates that either police officers target black communities preferentially on fishing trips to find dealers & users, or else that they preferentially arrest black dealers & users that they find over white dealers & users.

        • Cops aren’t actively searching for it. It probably just means that cops spend a lot more time in crime ridden areas, therefore, the black youths are more likely to be caught and do get caught. Cops don’t spend a lot of time in the middle/ upper middle class suburbs in my experience.

  6. The short answer-some are. So what? In my experience the most racissss cops were/are black Chicago po-leece. From many years working out with the brothers/running a health club and being stopped by a few. My beautiful black wife has been treated pretty well by both white and brown po-leece officers. Something about not being a criminal and being a classy,educated and extremely well-spoken woman(but you don’t “sound” black”). Unlike the gal who hung herself in Texas after merely being stopped for a lane-change. Is that azz-kissing? Nope. Just common courtesy to someone who has the power to SHOOT you and get away with it…

  7. That is a truly bullshit statistic. When the information is truncated, why even bother presenting it, unless one intentionally uses it to make a certain point, without the facts supporting it. What happened after the stop? Did the same percentage of drivers, black or white, act the same way? If one group acted differently, could it be that the actions of those people led to a certain response? Just maybe? But, we’ll never know; we’re only supposed to know certain things…

  8. Of course some cops are racist. Cops are humans, pulled from the general populace and largely self-selected. (there are no conscripted police in the US, so far as I am aware). It’s delusional to believe that there are no bad cops, just as it’s delusional to believe all cops are bad. The question shouldn’t be “Are cops racist?” The question should be “How many cops are racist?”

  9. As a black man, I have to say/admit that the sad fact of the matter is that we’re more likely to be tazed because we’re more likely to be belligerent. Many members of my family walk around with a chip on their shoulders and look for reasons to pop off to cops. unfortunately you play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. I don’t blame the cops. A lot of it’s the culture.

    • ” Many members of my family walk around with a chip on their shoulders and look for reasons to pop off to cops. unfortunately you play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. I don’t blame the cops. A lot of it’s the culture.”

      I personally know a woman my age who was hired into the local city police department.

      She told me that growing up, going to school, had no problems with the blacks she interacted with.

      After a few years of being a credentialed police officer, she admitted she was becoming racist and the reason for her conversion was the time she spent in the local ‘hood during her shift rotations (the department rotates the officers through the various parts of the city) and the attitudes the residents had with her as a police officer.

      She was rather bitter as she related that to me.

      Not nice, but reality for her…

      • I worked a poor predominately black area last year (90 percent). I didn’t have quite the same experience. With a couple exceptions they treated me with respect, and I extended them that courtesy as well.

        As for the tasers, police use them when they shouldn’t, on both extremes. They use them when they should be going hands on, and they also use them sometimes when they should have a gun out, or at least lethal cover.

        I got mine 2 years ago, and have never used it.

  10. And black people are imprisoned at a rate higher than whites. Doesn’t mean much unless you dig down and control for variables.

    For example… are black people more likely to be non-compliant during police encounters and resist arrest, all while shouting “YOU CAN’T TOUCH ME, NI***R!”

    In my experience, yes. Interesting I have noticed a similar behavior among 16 year old white females with vastly (self)overestimated knowledge of the law, although they usually omit the racial slurs. Usually.

    • My experience as a doorman anecdotally supports this. The vast majority of shit talking (and actual battery) originated from females under 22 or 23. They know most guys won’t strike them and they also usually have a guy in tow who they expect to step up for them if it looks like they might get hit. I solved this problem by making sure my front door staff always included a no shit taking female. Unsurprisingly they got a lot less shit and most boyfriends won’t step up to a woman.

  11. I personally feel (having many LEO in my family) that most cops are acting more to the standards they are trained for than their own personal feelings about minorities or stereotypes, or anything for that matter. Ferguson did a great job of showing that even the black community cops target the black community more harshly. That’s not a problem of racism, that’s training and policy.

    Most of the issues you see with cops shooting dogs and other things that have been popping up in any volume seem to revolve around bad policies, leaving the officers setup to fail.

    Then you of course have your mistakes, which may have been better handled through better training or candidate selection. Then you have the legit cases of people with biases or Dirty Harry, Robocop and Judge Dread dreams. These are the minorities though, just like with most gun stories – blown way out of scope.

    For the millions of folks that interact with LEO a day, we hear about a few bad stories and all of a sudden the viewers profile the cops. I find it rather funny that the folks calling for less profiling are actually throwing it right back in their comments and beliefs.

    That’s just my two cents though.

  12. This must be down south where the police/sheriffs DO NOT take any $hit off anyone NO MATTER what color they are. You act right and the word “Sir” is used by BOTH the Officer and the person stopped. When the guy jumped out and did the finger pointy thing he’s lucky the officer did not shoot him because to me it looked gunish. Then the “puffed up” power walk, big no-no.

  13. Ah, but are the black or hispanic drivers more likely to be criminals? The fun fact is that the police incident escalation rates match the incarceration rates almost to a T. If anything, there is a bias in the other direction as white suspects are more likely to be harassed than the incarceration rate justifies.

  14. some are. some aren’t. some seem to become conditioned towards racism. some seem to become more accepting once exposed.

  15. So the guy got tased just for that? He deserves a heartattack just because he was pissed at people for whom he paid lunch?

  16. I don’t know about racist, but what I do know is there is a rampant problem these days of excessive force being used and cops getting off with zero consequences.

    Here is an example of the police officer who accidentally shot someone and having zero repercussions as a result. To be fair, the police officer was very apologetic and obviously sorry. But, it doesn’t matter
    https://www.yahoo.com/autos/police-officer-accidentally-shoots-motorcyclist-160004024.html

    Let’s all remember that Eric Garner incident where he was stopped for selling loose cigarettes had an illegal chokehold use on him and then died. What happened? Oh yeah, zero police were indicted.

    Or how about this one, where six police were fired. And now the president of the union is vowing to get them rehired. Why were they fired? For filling a car full of bullets that held two suspects. That might sound legitimate, but, one police officer shot 49 times.

    49 times.

    That’s mag dump, speed reload, mag dump, speed reload, mag dump….. At one point he stood on the hood of the car and continued to fire more bullets through the windshield.

    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/01/cleveland_police_union_president_vows_to_get_fired_officers_jobs_back.html#incart_m-rpt-1

    Another I can’t find the link to involved a police officer shooting a drunk driver through the spine….as the driver was trying to crawl out of his wrecked car. The cop didn’t report the shooting till they found the bullet hole. The police officer was not charged with any wrong doing.

    Why is it so easy to find these? Why is this such a common thing?

    I understand that police have a hard job and I respect them for that, but we can not tolerate police officers being above the law. Imagine with me for a moment a world where you accidentally shoot a police officer, how’s that going to end for you?

    How am I supposed to trust police in a land where there is no accountability for their actions?

    I have seen videos of clean police. And in that case, I applaud those people but, it’s way too easy to find wrong for use of force.

    Way too easy.

    • “I don’t know about racist, but what I do know is there is a rampant problem these days of excessive force being used and cops getting off with zero consequences.”

      That’s why I believe body cams should be a standard part of a LEO’s duty carry.

      That will make abuse claims plummet.

      I’m fine with it switched off during lunch breaks…

  17. Here is the problem. You can’t look at police “racism” without first discussing human nature. We are hard wired from eons of survival to continuously try to recognize patterns. Patterns help us to anticipate how the world around us works and to anticipate the behavior of predators and prey.

    Police are humans. It is inevitable that regardless of any bias they come into their job with, they will develop some based on patterns that they observe.

    This is why BLACK OFFICERS are as likely to be “racist” as white officers.

    Their behavior is conditioned on the behavior of those they interact with .

    I have a lot of cop friends and I’ve been asking them for years the same question: Based on your experience, who is more likely to run or resist. Please rank the races.

    To a person, from men and women cops, black, white and latino, the order was this.

    1) Black
    2) Latino
    3) White
    4) Asian

    In fact, 2 of my cop friends said they had never arrested an Asian. Amazing huh.

    So if a white guy is 3x more likely to be a problem than an Asian, you are going to be more aggressive with him. If a black guy is 2 times more likely to be a problem than a white guy, then the cop is going to be more aggressive.

    But its not just race that they take into account. Other things are:

    1) location
    2) gender – women are less of a threat
    3) age
    4) dress
    5) the car you are driving
    6) the time and day of the interaction.

    These are all REAL factors that affect the cops perception because there are REAL variations in how a suspect will behave.

    Picture this. Which is going to put a cop more on edge.

    1) a mommy driving a late model, well maintained Toyota Highlander at 8:00 am with her kids in the car through a low crime area.

    or
    2) a teenager driving erratically at 2 am in a piece of crap car in a known drug area.

    Which do you think is more likely to run or resist. A mom with a crossover full of kids, or a teen alone at night in a bad area? Hmm. Seriously. So the cops behave accordingly.

    It would be racist to say this if anyone believed that the whole black>hispanic>white>asian threat continuum was the result of our genetic makeup. But I’m not saying that. I’m saying that it is a result of cultural and ethnic differences between the races. In other words, this behavior is taught by our friends and family, most of whom are typically the same race as us.

    Don

    • “In fact, 2 of my cop friends said they had never arrested an Asian. Amazing huh.”

      It’s a combination of percentage of the population and…

      Wait for it…

      Culture.

      There are Asian thugs, just ask indited gun-runner Leland Yee and his little buddy ‘Shrimp Boy’…

      • Of course there are Asian gang members. But outside this exceedingly small group, Asians are very very law abiding. In fact most are so deferential to authority it invites kind of makes me cringe.

  18. Hmmm, no mention in the ABC article of the race of the law enforcement officers. I’d imagine that not ALL the stun gun uses were done by white officers. So…..ABC news should study the stats of the non-white CT officers. If their percentage of stun gun use is more then 11.6% against blacks and 15% against Hispanics (i.e. the percentage of these races within the state of CT according to the article) then what conclusion does that draw? Would ABC attribute that to racism?

  19. You don’t just jump out of your car and close distance like that. I have no problem with the tazing, considering that police have been shown stuff like this during training;

    https://youtu.be/QRjqIaYJDAM

    What I can say about the race thing is that as cops, you are sent to where the crime is.

  20. CT cops? Yes.
    They have a generations longstanding tradition of it and despite several federal probes shutting departments down, paying out many many many lawsuits and occasionally shipping one of their own up the river for especially egregious acts they continue on doing it the way they’ve always does because CT has very f’ed up traditions when it comes to their cops and enabling politicians.

  21. DGAF

    News flash – the majority of felonies, and illiegal discharge of firearms, are perpetrated by known felons. The majority being “people of color”. The REAL question is WTF aren’t they in STILL in PRISON thus “protecting” the public from another FELONY???

    NEXT – Why are a “disproportionate” % of inmates “people of color” (must arbitrarily let some of the misunderstood angels out into society)? Because their freaking hoodlums and thugs. KEEP them in a cage.

    • >> Why are a “disproportionate” % of inmates “people of color” (must arbitrarily let some of the misunderstood angels out into society)? Because their freaking hoodlums and thugs.

      Why stop there? The next question you should ask is why they’re “hoodlums and thugs”, exactly.

  22. I’m still waiting for us to outsource prisons to China. That would be awesome and cheap.

    And yes, when they are released, they are released over there. No return flights.

    • The Chinese would never agree to that last part. (Who wants to take on another country’s hardened felons, regardless of race?) Unless they could simply re-arrest them and send them to labor camps.

  23. I’m a little bit racist. I’m sorry, I don’t know what to say. I really don’t see it as wrong and it isn’t like I think that one race should have more “rights” than another. Maybe the definition of racism has changed over time – not sure?

    Racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

    People indigenous to a particular region by means of natural selection acquire certain traits. I don’t know what else to say about it really. We are different and that is fact. Why pretend it isn’t real?

    Example: Dark people – very dark people from Africa. They came out of Africa – a very harsh place with large predators. Is it strange then that it is more difficult for them to get a sun burn compared to the pale white people from the North living in the forests and caves? Is it strange that the fastest runners on the planet are tall, muscular, dark people generally from Africa? Africa has this thing called malaria. Many dark people from Africa has this other thing called sickle cell genes. Amazing enough – this helps protect them from malaria.

    As you can see – if I was crossing the desert, the Serengeti, or a mosquito filled jungle and could just pick a race for me to turn into – I’d rather be a black dude from Africa.

    The people of each region developed in the way they have due to their respective regions and environmental conditions through survival/natural selection and their own choices of partners with what they perceived as desirable traits. This creates some small differences between us and there is nothing wrong with that.

  24. Some are, I’m sure. You’ll find racists among any group of people you could name. Some departments probably have more than their fair share. Leaving that statement of the obvious aside, the only way to answer the question with any kind of objectivity is to ask if cops tend to arrest one or another race disproportionately to the frequency with which the races in question commit crimes. I have never seen any evidence of that, myself. Some races are over-represented in arrests relative to their proportion of the population, but not with respect to their participation in crime. Thus, no evidence of racism.

    Of course, this assumes a logical definition of discrimination, i.e., cops tending to base their arrests on race rather than behavior. However, according to the Progressive view of racism, any unequal outcome is by definition evidence of racism. So, to an empiricist, cops are not racist. However, in the alternative universe Progs share by mutual agreement, cops are racist.

    • This statement seems to ignore the findings described in the post. I am assuming that they did not control for the type of offense for which the suspect was arrested, or other situational variables (like whether the suspect made a threatening move, or whether the suspect backed down after the cops threatened to use the stun gun).

  25. You gotta love them there southern blue crew.

    That video is my chuckle for the day. Hard charging white jackass gonna school a cop. The causal zap of the irate citizen instantly controlled the situation and furthered the conversation, particularly the southern phrase for concern “ya all right”?

    Don’t think colored folk are as stupid as this cracker.

  26. I guess no one here except me used to watch the show “Cops.”

    Go watch the years worth of re-runs of that show you’ll see that all demographics are represented equally and all get put on the deck for acting like clowns – males, females, white, black, brown, old, young, everyone. There were just as many banger black dudes getting dropped as trailer park meth heads. The most common factor wasn’t color, it was stupidity.

    Running, aggressing, and resisting arrest or detainment are sure fire ways to have your face in the dirt.

    Like police or hate them, agree with it or not, if you start acting up or acting out you’ll get put on the deck, indiscriminately.

  27. Police are human beings, and not grown and raised in some Police Officer Cloning Facility. As such, they come with the good and bad that can come with being human. That is all.

  28. Everyone should be required to wear a mask to hide their true race and gender. Until then, expect prejudices to get in the way because that is how humans were designed to function. Everyone is judging others and attempting to predict actions constantly.

  29. This is what I know,
    As a punk with a 2 foot blue mohawk and piercings/tats all over the place the cops would pretty much give me a hard time, every time Not just a hard time, but excessive force, excessive caution, once had a gun pulled on me by a cop who told me to stay in the car, instead I popped my hood to disconnect my battery (it was the only way to kill the lights) and that is when he drew on me.

    Fast forward 15 years where I am now a conservative dad that with a Steve Rodgers hairdo and I can tell you that I have never had even remotely the same experience as in my punk youth.

    From my experience cops are not really racist but rather profilers…the difference is being punk is not deemed embracing “your culture” such as ….let’s say gold teeth, your pants hanging down to your knees, a rag on your head, and of course, total lack of respect which is the same uniform gang members use, well the cops are getting guff for being cautious.

    To determine racism I think the real test is a black man in a polo and slacks getting pulled over vs a white hell’s angels biker and IF the hell’s angel got a lighter interaction then yes….racist cop. I would love to see a series of youtube videos where this happened, IF this happened, black men in polos or button downs talking to cops with respect and getting harassed by cops….IF this happened and made it to youtube then there would be immense support from all parties involved I think to get this corrected.

    • There was a YouTube vid a couple of years ago. A clean cut black guy caught a white scumbag breaking into his car. Cops were called a white cop responded. He did not disarm the black guy and he then thanked him for his assistance.

      You hit it on the head, the cop makes a snap judgment about whether you are contributing member of society for a scumbag making life harder for the rest of us, and then deals with you as such

    • >> As a punk with a 2 foot blue mohawk and piercings/tats all over the place the cops would pretty much give me a hard time

      This invites a question: why, exactly? What makes a blue mohawk and tattoos more inherently dangerous?

      BTW, you can see plenty of people with either of both in and around Seattle. Vast majority of them are not gang members or anything like that.

      • Well first off, again the question was racism however my point was suspicious characters. When I had a blue mohawk, leather jacket, and junk hanging off my face it was not the norm and as such I would imagine those officers were overly cautious to protect themselves. Just like if they pulled over a truck for a speeding ticket and in the vehicle was a bunch of furries….google it. There would probably be some shock, concern, and then since the suspect is completely hidden … some caution as the officer handled the situation.

        But let’s talk about the dude with a mohawk a little more. Now I know these days there may be kids with their colored hair and the weak ass mohawks since that hot celeb babe made them famous are probably harmless, but in my day I was wearing the uniform of a punk which were also known to be anarchist. Even if 5% of punks out there were dangerous anti establishment types and the other 95% were wannabes, as a cop I’d still expect that they would want to error on the side of caution, for their safety. We were violent, fighting with skin heads, fighting with straight edge punks, fighting with well everyone and causing mayhem before “project mayhem” was even a thing. We were trouble.

        Sure my “uniform” got me pulled over as I was driving home from school for doing nothing wrong, harassed by the way I dressed, but most of the time I was respectful, they ran my tags, plates, and let me go…sometimes with a BS ticket that infringed on the freedoms of said individual. But it is what it is, they knew punks were usually up to no good and we wanted the attention, to alarm the locals…why else would we have made ourselves such an easy target? Kinda like letting everyone see your obnoxious colored drawers right? Of course we couldn’t spook the locals and hide behind a civil right back then, but for the record back then nobody could. A punk was a punk and a thug was a thug.

        • >> . Even if 5% of punks out there were dangerous anti establishment types and the other 95% were wannabes, as a cop I’d still expect that they would want to error on the side of caution, for their safety

          Cops are supposed to err on the side of caution for safety of those they protect first and foremost (i.e. that same 95%). The biggest problem with police today is that their justification for doing the craziest shit is “I want to go home safe”. Sure, but so do I, and unlike you, my job description isn’t “protect and serve”, and I’m not paid for it, so…

  30. It depends on how you define “racism”.

    If you mean consciously treating people differently based on race, then the answer is “some”. Obviously there are some racist cops (remember those texts about “niggers”?). Most of them aren’t.

    If you mean subconscious bias that leads to different treatment depending on race without the person realizing that, then, statistically speaking, the answer is “yes” -and not just for cops. It’s really pervasive. We have had numerous double-blind studies that show these effects, where all other variables are accounted for (in other words, there’s really no difference between two scenarios presented, other than one person looks or sounds black, while the other one does not – and that’s enough for people to present a statistically significant bias). Here are just a few:

    http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1798&issue_id=5200

    http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/

    http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/black-boys-older.aspx

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/science-of-racism-prejudice

    There are plenty more when you look. Note that these tend to be subtle in a sense that in any particular interaction, the difference is small, and requires accurate measurement to observe. For example, in the first link, they measure police officers response times to people, either white or black, and either armed or unarmed – they need to make a quick choice of “shoot” and “don’t shoot”. The difference is clearly racially biased in the measurements – they “shoot” armed blacks faster than armed whites, and they “don’t shoot” unarmed blacks slower than unarmed whites. But it’s a 10-20ms difference (out of ~500ms overall response time). So if you look at one or two encounters, without a stopwatch, you wouldn’t notice it. But when it’s thousands of interactions between officers and people daily, the aggregate effect of that 20ms difference is going to be several more dead bodies for blacks that aren’t there for whites, all other things being equal.

    And these unconscious biases start very, very early on, because they are so ingrained in the culture. Watch this video:

    https://www.facebook.com/BruteNews/videos/1034946336547746/

    • I looked at the first link that you provided and the pictures in that report make it clear that the study/report was biased in the first place. The picture of an armed white man is of a clean, decently dressed person. The picture of an armed black man is closer to a hoodlum, with sagging pants and a long t-shirt. Those differences are too obvious not to have been either noticed or intentional. Makes the entire “study” suspect.

      • >> The picture of an armed black man is closer to a hoodlum, with sagging pants and a long t-shirt.

        I don’t see anything particularly “thuggy” about that picture. Long t-shirts are just convenient, especially in heat, you know? And the pants don’t seem sagging, just relaxed fit.

        Anyway, don’t you think it’s rather telling that it’s the sagging pants and not the gun that matters?

        And what would you make of the pics of unarmed people? Quite frankly, that’s by far the most worrying result from that study – that it takes longer for a cop to decide NOT to shoot an unarmed black guy. It explains situations like Tamir Rice case.

        • The pictures on my screen are very small and I can’t open them, so I can’t see any guns in any of the pictures (or a definite lack of one, either). I can see the general appearance of the person, and these are not matched. From the distance, the two men have a very different appearance. I am not saying whether one has a “right” to wear what he wants or not (yes, they all do), but those appearances may make more of a difference than their color. I have been involved in technical testing for almost 30 years – this type of setup would be so obviously wrong that any test that I’ve been involved in would have been disqualified and discredited if anyone tried to pull this type of bias. Then again, I was doing technical tests, not “tests” intended to “prove” someone’s prejudiced view.

        • I’m curious what you would have to say about the other referenced tests. Especially the one with resumes, where appearance was not involved at all.

        • Also take a look at this. Obviously it’s not double-blind or anything like that since it’s a self-test, but it’s still very interesting.

          https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/user/agg/blindspot/indexrw.htm

          (Be sure to actually complete it – your first objection will likely be that they have arbitrarily grouped things to elicit a certain conclusions, but the groups actually change as the test proceeds, and it’s the very last grouping that is the most revealing.)

        • Took the test multiple times, intentionally biasing the test. Difficult to say without seeing the algorithm and without trying this on multiple people. I have gotten results from moderate bias against Black people to strong bias against White people, after intentionally throwing off the test to the extremes. This is my completely biased opinion, but I am not convinced that the middle point is actually in the middle. I think that the authors need to disclose the algorithm for the test to be credible.

    • I’m going through the references one at a time. The Politico story that refers to “”Are Emily and Greg more employable than Lakisha and Jamal?” Lots of massaged data there, but I was looking for the raw questions (or resumes with names) – those are not provided. The only bit of raw data is in the title. Now, I know Blacks called Emily and Greg, and would not feel prejudiced toward them based on names or color. But I have never met or heard of, in the professional circles where I live, anyone with names like Lakisha or Jamal. Could it be that these names represent not simply Black color, but a certain family background and, therefore, class? Would I reject “Lakisha”? Most likely, but not because the name suggests a Black person, but because the name suggest a low class person. In my book, that is a reasonable reaction. I will go through other references as time permits, but we must be very cautious with analyses that start off with a bias.

      • Here is the original paper:
        http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873.pdf

        >> Would I reject “Lakisha”? Most likely, but not because the name suggests a Black person, but because the name suggest a low class person.

        Why would you reject someone for being “low class” if the rest of their resume – you know, all the parts about education, job experience etc – are fitting?

        The assertion that these names actually correlate with “low class” (rather than, as you said, “suggest low class”) would also need proving. And either way, those names are clearly Black names; i.e. even if it’s a “low class” thing, unless there’s a similar pattern observed for “low class” white names, it would still demonstrate racial bias.

        • I am not necessarily saying that there is no bias or prejudice. I am saying that the studies appear flawed, perhaps intentionally, have too many uncontrolled variables and do not prove what they intended to prove. If anything, they seem to prove the bias of the authors of these studies.

        • Would you hire someone named BARACK??? Hussain Obama? Just curious Alexander what level of racism you’re at. Sheesh.

        • Well, the facts seem to support that not hiring Barack Hussein Obama would have been a much better decision!

  31. Are they? Yes. Now, do you have an actual point or do you just want to throw around ad hominems? No, really, this racism BS is way passed annoying. Because it only applies to a single group, white males. That’s it. The very definition has been crafted to make sure it only fits us, and we have no actual way out of it. There’s an SJW vid going around now about how it’s not enough to not be racist, if you’re not anti-racist(presumably hunting racists or something) then you’re still racist.

    And you know what? I’m done playing a game I can’t win. So if the SJW’s really want racism, we can go there.

    • Hey, Michael Jackson changed himself into a white woman. I’m sure that, with a little bit of luck, you can turn yourself into a black woman…

  32. Maybe they deployed their stun guns on black and Hispanic suspects more often because there were more black and Hispanic suspects overall.

    It may just be a lack of white and Asian susects to draw on.

  33. Did they account for the racial rates of crime in their analysis? Very common to see “police are statistically more racist” studies, which fail to account for; crime being higher in minority/poor areas, enforcement being more diligent in those areas accordingly, and the combination of those two amplifying the statistical rate of law-enforcement involvement in crimes (the whole idea of focusing on those areas) and the attendant increase in convictions/altercations/mistakes-on-both-sides which arises. There is doubtless an enmity created by this state of affairs, also (seen by people who can, getting the heck out of these areas, minority or not) which could potentially mean a steeper/harsher police demeanor, but such an effect is clearly secondary to the selection bias issues I’ve described.

  34. Cops depend on the public for support, and they don’t care what race it comes from. they need it… but they are losing it, because of their militant approach to the public,of all races… no matter what race you are, watching people being abused by cops makes folks of all race fear cops. This guy got tased, because he didnt show the fear that police want to project, Not because he posed a threat..He approached the cop man to man, human to human…
    Cops need you to fear them in order for them to control you, you don’t fear them voluntarily you will be made to fear them thru pain… the media doesnt help matters, but they are ignorant and totally out of touch with both race relations and police abuse… Nobody who understands the real problem, reports on the abuses cops impose on the people, and in the same breath, without skipping a beat, starts the next story with ” police need your help with”.
    I’ll bet dimes to doughnuts this guy who was tased, has also received the phone calls from the FOP asking for donations… black or white it’s all the same problem.

  35. Is no one going to mention the way that driver jumped out? Geezus, there can’t be a worse way to exit a vehicle in a traffic stop. My heart started racing, thought “gun” immediately. Guy literally JUMPS outs, raises arm and points at officer. He’s a lucky man that it wasn’t a situation where the officer was approaching with hand on sidearm.

  36. People who are all wound up about this should live in the ‘hood for a few years. They will find the experience illuminating.

  37. Police are people so they won’t differ from the population. Some are some aren’t. Now we know that unconscious bias can be stimulated by stress.

    If Blacks say they are being shot by police why deny it? Why not seek to end it. If White teens say they are being harassed by the police why deny it? Try to end it.
    If you flat out deny people’s complaints maybe the racism is in you.

    To the person that said that if you don’t dress like a gang banger you won’t have problems well friend you’re wrong. Now. Here is where you can listen and not defend your ideas.
    Every one has tales. Here is one. ( By the way I believe that all people do attract good or bad behavior by how they are dressed.)
    My Black friend played first chair violin for the Detroit Symphony. While wearing a tux, violin on the seat, he was pulled over, weekly. It’s called DWB. Driving While Black.
    A policeman in my town pulled over a young Black man. He was a Vice President for PSA. He was driving a BMW. The police officer said, “What are you doing with this car, boy.”
    We people can stop saying we aren’t racist and realize a lot of what we are we picked up growing up.
    Hey look I had dinner with some libs last night. They off casually referred to all gun owners as the occupiers at the refuge. Isn’t that strong ignorance. We POTG are Citizens with different politics religion etc. Wasn’t that an example of bias?

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