It Should Have Been a Defensive Gun Use: St. Cloud, Florida Edition

“A family was terrorized for nearly 12 hours on Thursday in their home in St. Cloud,” wftv.com reports. “Four gunmen tied up a mother and her daughter before robbing the family, investigators said. The mother’s boyfriend was kidnapped and beaten before investigators found him tied up in the back seat of the family’s car.” It should have been a defensive gun use — although it’s easier said than done when you’re facing four determined gunmen. Yeah, about that . . .

Judging from the number of attackers and the length of the incident, it’s likely that this wasn’t a random crime. It might have been, but I doubt it. And? And everyone has the right to armed self-defense, regardless of any activities or associations which may have led to the attack. But it’s also true that the odds of a truly random home invasion in a good neighborhood are lower than a snake’s belly.

“It makes me worry about my family. You know, this is a pretty good neighborhood. You get outsiders coming in here and you just don’t know,” neighbor Dennis Gembutis said.

That is the truth about home invasions: you just don’t know. Given the whole Kevin Bacon three degrees of separation deal, you’re never too far removed from some bad people. Got guns? A pretty daughter? A relative who’s a drug addict? It’s all too easy to become a target of non-random violence.

In all cases, home carry people. Home carry.

[h/t SS]

comments

  1. avatar Nick says:

    The fact that one of them was taken to a secondary location and beaten suggests their quarrel was with him, either that or he put up an apparently futile resistance and was punished for it.

  2. avatar Ralph says:

    it’s easier said than done when you’re facing four determined gunmen

    The number four is less important than the “determined” part. Having chosen the wrong home to invade, BGs would have to be very determined to continue the fight. Especially if one or two were bleeding out on the hall rug.

    1. avatar CRF says:

      Enthusiasm tends to drop sharply after the remaining baddies realize they could potentially gain a few extra holes in their body.

      1. avatar Art out West says:

        Exactly! Shoot the first one, and the others will probably be less determined.

        1. avatar B says:

          Everyone gets a serving before getting seconds.

        2. avatar Ralph says:

          Boarding house rules.

    2. avatar Cliff H says:

      Group cohesion tends to fall apart as well. These guys are not trained in squad tactics or mutual support. They generally depend on the intimidation factor of their weapons and savagery to gain compliance. At the first sign of effective resistance, especially from a firearm, their first inclination is almost always to try to beat each other to the nearest egress point.

      The old joke about the hikers and the bear – “I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just need to be faster than YOU.”

    3. avatar TravisP says:

      Its all about momentum, if you can stop, or slow the momentum you can win.

  3. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    I’m sure home carry would’ve been an issue if there were nefarious things going on to cause this home invasion.

    Guns and shady deeds go hand-in-hand.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      If both groups were shady, why did only one have weapons?

      OTOH, it always surprises me when shady groups with heavily barricaded doors and rooms full of weapons are taken by surprise and never get off a shot when SWAT breaks in.

      1. avatar tdiinva (Now in Wisconsin) says:

        I am going with Door #2 — he missed a loan payment and it wasn’t to the bank.

      2. avatar Kevin says:

        Criminals and shady groups are not that afraid of SWAT coming in but rather enemies and competition. So SWAT comes, you get arrested, make bail, plead down and probably not do much time if any. You know, because everyone is turning their life around so we wrist slap them and cut them loose.

        Their enemies, yeah they have to worry about them. They play for real unlike our chicken sh*t society these days.

  4. avatar ThomasR says:

    Home carry. Did I say home carry? You should really home carry.

    Pocket gun if nothing else. I carry a full sized firearm until I go to bed, then it comes off the belt and under the pillow.

    But I also have Body Guard .380 as a back up gun. A really excellent weapon. Reliable, accurate and with a hold open device on an empty mag. What’s not to like?

    Determined attackers? Shot the alpha in front of the pack and the betas will scatter.

    1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

      “…then it comes off the belt and under the pillow.”

      What could possibly go wrong?

      1. avatar ThomasR says:

        Ummm, home invasion by four determined attackers?

        1. avatar Matthew says:

          I keep a gun and flashlight on my bedside table, always loaded with one in the chamber, and my AR leaned up against the wall. Keeping the gun under the pillow though is asking for trouble. Tossing and turning in your sleep, blanket or sheet getting tangled, etc are not things I want in the same vicinity as a firearm. I definitely don’t want a gun under my head. All it takes is a sleepy hand to grab the wrong place and your head looks like Kennedy’s.

        2. avatar ThomasR says:

          That’s not my experience. I’m either asleep or I’m awake, So I don’t fumble half asleep around myself or under my pillow. And the pistol I carry and put under the pillow is a 1911 or my Sig 10mm, both with a thumb lock.

          So what you speak of as a concern is not one to me.

  5. avatar J3W1 says:

    I would look into these “errands” the mother’s boyfriend was running. He might have brought the trouble with him.

  6. avatar Pascal says:

    Shotgun with Buckshot and some slug followers. The first one bleeding and screaming makes the others run. Even if they decide to shoot back, they will cause the whole neighborhood to notice.

    This from 2014
    http://www.wxyz.com/news/mom-opens-fire-on-home-invaders-in-detroit-to-defend-children

    (WXYZ) – A Detroit mother opened fire Monday night when three suspects broke into her home.

    Surveillance cameras caught it all.

    The mother tells 7 Action News she “didn’t have time to get scared.” When she heard the door to her home on Woodrow Wilson being kicked in, she immediately warned the three teenage intruders and then opened fire.
    One of the teens dropped a handgun on his way out the door. He then tried to get back inside the house a second time, but was again met with gunfire. Once again, he took off and all three were arrested shortly after the incident by Detroit Police.

    Recalling the panic she felt, the mom says “I let them know I had a gun once they were in the house. They said no you don’t so I shot off the first round. I wasn’t feeling anything at the moment, I got scared afterwards.”

  7. avatar george from fort worth says:

    6 degrees of separation,

    but who really cares?

  8. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    Gotta love the PC sanitizing of the local news that has been going on over the last few years. Real description has been replaced with “gunman” whether they were all carrying or displaying or only one or none! No racial information or other perp description at all. This kind of crap is why I dumped cable/network TV more than a dozen years ago.

  9. avatar Wrightl3 says:

    I hope that now, these people learn about their RKBA.

  10. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    There are three simple measures that just about everyone can take to virtually eliminate any possibility of ever being at the mercy of home invaders:
    (1) Have a firearm available in the home.
    (2) Have a storm door and an entry door and lock both of them all the time.
    (3) Have a dog, even a small one, and train it to bark when someone approaches the home.

    As simple and inexpensive as these measure are, they are significant.

    Having a firearm available in your home is obvious. And even if you don’t carry a handgun on your belt while inside your home (opting instead to keep a loaded home defense firearm available in the middle of your home), you are not putting yourself at a big disadvantage as long as you have both doors locked and a small dog in the house. Why? Two doors will slow down home invaders and the sound of breaching two doors and a barking dog should give you ample time to access your home defense firearm in the middle of your home.

    It is a simple system with layers … multiple doors, a dog, and a functioning firearm in your hands. That simple system will stop pretty much everything except for an professional hit squad. And you can pretty much eliminate any chance of ever having to face a hit squad if you avoid dealings with loan sharks and drug dealers.

  11. avatar Jason says:

    So if the intruders were armed with sharp objects would the news description call them ‘knifemen’?

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