Florida Heading Towards Open Carry. Maybe. Again. Still.

If Florida finally passes an open carry bill, residents of the Sunshine (AKA, Gunshine) State with a concealed carry permit will be good to stow openly this July. The carnage unleashed by Texas’s box-fresh permitted open carry law in the last week argues against it. Oh wait. While the assault media is highlighting the Florida PD’s opposition to open carry, I reckon they’re doing little to inhibit its support, and much to highlight the fact that they have to swear an oath to uphold the Constitution before they can ignore what’s in it. That said, sun-sentinel.com reports that one police group’s on the side of the angels. With conditions . . .

Only one statewide police organization, the Florida Police Chiefs Association, supported the bill. That support came after an amendment guaranteed police would not be liable for infringing on someone’s rights when they have probable cause to believe a person openly carrying a firearm does not have a concealed carry permit.

And that support has been controversial; many police chiefs have spoken out against their own association on the matter, including (West Palm Beach Police Chief Bryan) Kummerlen.

Many! But in the cake-taking department, I submit the following for your consideration:

Referencing recent mass shootings, from Sandy Hook to San Bernardino, West Palm Beach Mayor Jeri Muoio asked, “Is there anyone who thinks this is the right time to make it more difficult for our police to protect us?”

Why does the mayor think that armed self-defense inhibits the police? Because statism. And police unions. As if you didn’t know.

[h/t MN]

comments

    1. avatar LifeAbounds says:

      Kind of a side-ways Fudd article.
      My understanding is: she’s glad she has her CWP, and her gat, but she never wants to see open carry ‘cuz some concealed carrier MIGHT shoot an open carrier ?!

      a lil help please… Anybody…?

      1. avatar FedUp says:

        She’s a CCer who thinks she should shoot anybody with a visible gun and no visible badge?

        She’s totally irrational?

        I think those two cover all the potential bases.

        1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

          That somebody is open carrying does not in itself constitute a threat. Antis love to make that ridiculous, but it’s false.

          People are approached by others with “unknown intentions” all day every day. That’s life in a civilization. I’ll concede her point that some day somebody may shoot an open carrier, because their nerves got the best of them. However, if someone’s going to shoot somebody without that other person providing lawful justification, then that’s going to happen anyway.

          It won’t be because of the openly carried firearm any more than it’s because of that other person’s color, clothing or look in their eyes. It’ll be because the shooter is out of control and acting illegally.

          That isn’t a problem of open carry with everyone else. That’s a problem of that one individual carrying at all.

        2. avatar Pete says:

          Wether or not a open carrying person could be viewed as a threat depends on a lot of things, but off hand I have to say that a lot of “protesters” at open carry events crosses that line.
          Specifically I think of adults carrying AR’s in the read position with the storng hand on the grip and reaction hand on the hanguard, it should be slung over the shoulder/back if you want to look peaceful. America isnt the Helmand….

          Personally I dont care much for people protesting anything while carrying a long gun, I tend to view them with suspicion, as the only reason that comes to head as for the long gun being there is to scare som hippies or other soft souls.
          That said, chosing open carry of a handgun as your mode of carry is purely a tactical consideration that no government should ban.
          But i would guess the public safety effect of CCW on a grand scale is better, if the criminal dont know who he shouldnt rob, then maybe he goes into nicking airbags or other less invasive buisness instead.

          So in abstract: The government should only fund ads promoting CCW, not ban open carry.

        3. avatar Wood says:

          The government should well and good stay out of it. “Shall not be infringed.”

          Though I agree many OC activists crossed over to tool bag status.

        4. avatar Ben says:

          You DO know why the guys in Texas ‘chose’ to carry long guns, right? Yeah, carrying them at the low ready didn’t make much sense to me, either. But I’m pretty sure no one got hurt, and I didn’t even hear of any arrests… but they got what they wanted, so it worked. Not even much point in complaining about it, now.

        5. avatar j says:

          “America is not Helmand”

          Been to chiraq lately?

  1. avatar TXGal says:

    How dare you peons think you should have the right to Open Carry as your (LEOs) betters do,

  2. avatar Wood says:

    Granting police immunity from harassment when they can say they have probable cause goes against the spirit of this legislation. The whole point is that CCW carriers who inadvertently exposed their firearms were being persecuted by the police and prosecutors. This just lets them do more of same. Probable cause better be something they can articulate, not hide behind.

    1. avatar Floridian says:

      “Wood says:

      January 10, 2016 at 10:14

      Granting police immunity from harassment when they can say they have probable cause goes against the spirit of this legislation.”

      Exactly! Look at all the Youtube videos from supposedly more gun friendly states like New Hampshire, where OC proponents are harassed all the time because ‘several’ people called 911 to complain. Law Enforcement’s hope it to wear each of us down to the point where we’ll just give up and not OC, for fear of being bothered by LEO’s.

  3. avatar Joe Mama says:

    “…when they have probable cause to believe a person openly carrying a firearm does not have a concealed carry permit”.

    Isn’t that the way it is now? If stopped they need to be able to articulate objective facts to lead them to believe you did not have a permit. And an openly carried weapon ain’t it.

  4. avatar ThomasR says:

    It is true. I’ve OC’d for over eight years in New Mexico, much of it in down town Albuquerque, hanging out in restaurants just across the street from the University of NM.

    I’ve needed hip waders to deal with the blood running in the streets with the shoot outs with bad guys trying to steal my OC pistol!! Armed stand offs with the police after members of the MDA would “swat” me!! Massive panic as I would empty out restaurants and retail businesses as people ran screaming out the doors!! It has been chaos, a virtual armaggedon, cats and dogs living together!!!

    Oh, wait, that is what the hoplophobes say will happen. Nope, not one bad experience with the general public, the police, or from the local businesses.

  5. avatar Mark_PAV says:

    Maybe a little off topic but would this law if passed get rid of that ridiculous law about zero tolerance to printing when concealed carrying in Florida?

    1. avatar MarcB says:

      They passed a law dealing with this a few years ago. No longer considered brandishing if you accidentally print or expose while concealed carrying.

      1. avatar Mark_PAV says:

        Great to hear. I’m not from Florida but recall reading about the “fear of printing”.

        1. avatar Wood says:

          That’s why this new law is needed. That precious law is being applied criminally against CCW carriers. They’re getting overzealously prosecuted for “brandishing”. The problem is prosecutors wanting to build their resumes and what exacting is meant by temporary unintentional exposure. As in, actual elapsed time.

        2. avatar Wood says:

          *previous* not “precious”

    2. avatar Sean in Tampa (now lakeland) says:

      You can print as much as any new York rag. It’s not illegal.

    3. avatar Sian says:

      You can wear an extra-smedium shirt and yoga pants and print like a mo-fo now, so long as it’s covered and any exposure is brief and isn’t deliberate.

  6. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    It seems like “many” Fla chiefs sought out interviewed for this advocay piece article, don’t much trust their citizenry.

    Kinda like trust-issue-guy. So, the chiefs are amateur comedians? I didn t know it was open mic night.

    About 300,000,000 Americans don’t do anythng violent or criminal every day. “Many” of them keep it up for years. Id expecg police chiefs to know that, even if trust-issue-guy does not.

  7. avatar Bigdiogi says:

    “Is there anyone who thinks this is the right time to make it more difficult for our police to protect us?”

    Is there anyone who thinks this is the right time to make it more difficult for US TO PROTECT OURSELVES?

    Fixed it for you. Open carry would make it easier for the citizenry to defend themselves. Why is that a bad thing? Especially considering the recent tragedies you’ve cited.

  8. avatar Bob says:

    It funny, the fear the liberals seem to have over people exercising a constitutionally protected right, out in the open.

    It reminds me of the manufactured drama over the 14th amendment. Gasp! Free black people? Allowed anywhere? OMG! The streets they will run with blood!

    If descrimination is so bad, how can you justify treating law abiding gun owners as you do?

    1. avatar Cloudbuster says:

      It reminds me of the manufactured drama over the 14th amendment. Gasp! Free black people? Allowed anywhere? OMG! The streets they will run with blood!

      Given the level of black criminality, that’s probably not the best example.

      1. avatar Wood says:

        But it’s all the fault of the white man!!!

        /sarc off

      2. avatar navillus says:

        The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868, which is when the ‘manufactured drama’ over its adoption took place. Blacks in 1868 were not committing anything close to today’s level of crime- it took a century of Democrat-led federal government ‘assistance’ to the poor to make that happen. Please don’t compare apples & oranges.

  9. avatar MamaLiberty says:

    Getting rid of the idiot “permit” would solve the whole problem. In reality. In the bizarre world of most cops, they’d have to invent something else to bitch about.

  10. avatar Kevin says:

    It is legal here in Florida to open carry if your fishing and have a fishing license. But heaven help you if the wind blows your shirt up and causes your gun to be seen at the local Walmart.

    1. avatar JD says:

      Actually the exceptions are hiking, camping, fishing, and to and from such activities. The gun range also falls under that exception.
      Demanding I have a permit to carry open or ccw is an infringement of my rights. If the only way to bear arms in Florida is by asking for permission and paying a tax then the entire law should be tossed. It’s no different than paying a poll tax and I believe the reason for the exceptions is because of they know the law is unconstitutional.

  11. avatar Cloudbuster says:

    What’s weird is that every time there’s a carry expansion like this, there’s all the usual “blood in the streets” fear-mongering, but the fact is that we have ample real-world laboratories: states that have had open carry for decades (or shall-issue concealed carry for decades, or permitless carry for decades, or carry in establisments that serve alcohol — pick your apocalyptic issue), and the carnage never materialize.

    Progs are currently creaming their pants because some stats show an increase in shootings in St. Louis since a recent carry expansion (I can’t even remember what it was). But, wow, it’s not like there’s been anything else happening (*cough* BLM *cough* Ferguson *cough*) that could have any affect on that, right?

  12. avatar Mk10108 says:

    Police / Legislators / Judges – The political Triad has no vested interest in citizens protecting themselves against criminals. The reason is legally armed citizens will do more to end crime and the revolving door of justice than the Triad could ever hope to accomplish and the Triad will do anything to preserve their jobs, including infringing on lawful carry.

    1. avatar Ben says:

      Yep, conflict of interest to say the least.

    2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Nail head. You hit it right on.

  13. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    “Mayor Jeri Muoio asked, ‘Is there anyone who thinks this is the right time to make it more difficult for our police to protect us?”

    You’re the only one with a protection detail, Mayor.

    1. avatar Roscoe says:

      She reminds me of Nancy Pelosi.

  14. avatar rob g says:

    As a WI resident, I have always found this open carry debate amusing. During the dark years prior to WI finally passing concealed carry (2010?) we POTG were told by our Liberal governor Doyle, that we didn’t need concealed carry, because every WI resident had the right to carry openly. Of course, it was a big fat lie. Carrying a handgun openly, especially in Madison or Milwaukee was an immediate trip to jail, or a disorderly conduct citation. This was after you were gunned, thrown to the ground and cuffed. Of course, your gun would disappear into the bowels of the system to be returned with evidence numbers engraved crudely on it, or rusted badly, that is if you EVER got it back. A fellow security officer was assigned to duty in a new account in Milwaukee, and based on a career criminals word that he had pointed his gun at them , his weapon was confiscated for over a year with no charges ever filed. As a security officer, only open carry in full police style uniform was permitted, and only when on the clock, or immediately going to or from your assignment. I prefer to carry concealed, but don’t judge those who want to carry openly. Either way, the Dodge City B.S. the Liberals yammer about has NEVER happened anywhere. Incidentally, I carried concealed here for nearly 30 years before my rights were finally “granted”. I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. A misdemeanor ticket would have been worth it, vs drawing attention to myself.

  15. avatar Mecha75 says:

    July? The bills (both house and senate bills) used to say “upon being signed into law”. But this is only 1 front of a 2 frong battle. norman vs Florida is currently at the state supreme court and they are asking the court to shoot down the current ban on Open Carry. Which is the preferred victory and makes the 2 bills moot if the Fl supreme court passes the correct judgement.

    1. avatar JP says:

      The fact that the bills are in the Legislature and are as close as they are to passing actually makes it more likely that he will win. Because he can show that the Legislature is tossing the OC ban anyway.

  16. avatar James says:

    Wait, riddle me this. What protection were the San Bernardino police providing at the Inland Center when the terrorists showed up?

    Ooooooooh, someone’s got a frowny face now that their strawman is exposed.

  17. avatar Ralph says:

    The police really and truly need more immunity. Because, after all, who wouldn’t want to hassle a few law abiding people and shoot a puppy every now and then.

  18. avatar Jimmyjames says:

    Open carry but only if you have a CCW…what could possibly go wrong?

  19. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    The usual boo hooers blood in the street types are against everything.
    Meanwhile nothing has happened in 44 other states. Since……..well forever.
    Every cop on the street Ive spoken to here doesn’t see any of this as being a problem.
    Most permit carriers wont avail themselves to open carry is my personal belief.
    Why advertise??
    Ive been carrying here since 1991. In all that time I cant see one reason for me to have open carried.
    Well maybe once in a blue moon while on the motorcycle. A gun in a saddle bag is fairly useless. But I do IWB and have since day one.
    But it would be nice to have the option back as it was in 87.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Jay,

      “Most permit carriers wont avail themselves to open carry is my personal belief.
      Why advertise??”

      I think it is less about advertising and more about options. If you want to carry a full size handgun, it is next to impossible to carry it without major printing. And if your printing is obvious, criminals will notice.

      Here is another interesting idea. Suppose you want to carry a large frame revolver like a .44 Magnum with a barrel between 6 and 8 inches. For all intents and purposes it is impossible to conceal such a revolver unless you wear it in a shoulder rig with a jacket over it … and even then it is probably going to print like a neon light.

      I am thinking more and more about carrying a large frame .44 Magnum revolver. Sure, it is huge and heavy and you only get 6 shots before you have to reload. On the plus side, with proper ammunition selection, you are just about guaranteed to get “one shot stops”. Or look at it this way. If you are facing two terrorists with rifles, wouldn’t you much rather have a large frame .44 Magnum revolver with a long barrel — rather than a “full size” pistol in 9mm or .40 S&W with a 4 inch barrel? I know I would.

      1. avatar Jay in Florida says:

        I don’t disagree with you at all.
        In my case I do carry IWB a full sized 45acp. But my Canik not so much. My revolvers collect dust.
        I also believe one should carry what they have 100% confidence in. Me and a 44 revolver???
        Heck to me 35 years to buy a 9mm gun. Let alone a plastic one.
        Id rather carry a striker fired in a belt holster. More confident with it that way.
        Again choice would be nice.

  20. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    “Is there anyone who thinks this is the right time to make it more difficult for our police to protect us?” — West Palm Beach Mayor Jeri Muoio

    Right, because how many of ALL spree killers and terrorists strolled down the road with an openly visible handgun or rifle before their attack?

    At any rate let’s turn the tables:

    Is there anyone who thinks this is the right time to make it more difficult for our residents and visitors to protect themselves?

    Is there anyone who thinks this is the right time to eliminate options for our residents and visitors to protect themselves?

    1. avatar Ben says:

      It’s still amazing that after 88% of states already have open carry, many of those without without permits, people are still claiming that blood will run in the street, police won’t be able to operate, and all other kinds of nonsense. They can’t come up with ANY statistical evidence that open carry causes problems, yet it’s the same tired, stupid arguments over and over.

      1. avatar Floridian says:

        This was talked about at length on one of the news shows a couple of weeks back. The claim that the Republicans and the NRA are attempting to take Texas back to the “wild, wild west” took on a different meaning. The moderator of the show did some research on death by gun during the period that we call the “wild, wild west” and he found that the death by gun, rate per capita was actually very small.

        I think it goes to prove that an armed society is a polite society. While you may not like the looks of this new reality, you can ‘live’ with it.

        1. avatar Wood says:

          It comes down to this. Anti gun people know exactly spit about guns. Everything they know they got from TV.

  21. avatar Libertarian says:

    Would mutch better if the running open carry lawsuit legalize it unlicensed.
    But licensend is better as nothing together white other reforms in off places and strengthen the use of deadly force.
    Knifes over 4 inches should clear covered unter the permit too if you can t pass an knife preemption as texas 2015 too !

    1. avatar Ben says:

      Ummmm, HUH?

      1. avatar Former Water Walker says:

        I’m guessing English is his 2nd language(maybe Deutch?). Anywho I see Open carry in Indiana all the time…and NOTHING. Not holding my breath for Illinois…

        1. avatar JoeVK says:

          It’s the same here in rural Ohio. Open carriers everywhere, and nobody says sh*t.

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