BREAKING: Video Purports to Show Shooting of Robert LaVoy Finicum

This video, posted by something called End Times News Report, supposedly shows the final moments of Robert LaVoy Finicum’s life. If this is in fact genuine, it puts the lie to his daughter’s claim that he was shot while on his knees with his hands in the air (does anyone remember Michael Brown?). While the video isn’t conclusive, it appears that his hands were clearly not in the air and he may have been reaching for a firearm. Again, if genuine, it’s still difficult to tell exactly what happened from the distance the video what shot. For that, we’d need dashcam video from he police vehicles, if it exists.

UPDATE: Full video from the FBI’s youtube account posted below:

 

comments

  1. avatar JAlan says:

    Clearly an execution. He didn’t do nothing.

    1. avatar Muih says:

      Can’t tell if that’s sarcasm or not, but he damn near plowed under someone when coming off the road, and had his hands in his pants when the OSP officer shot him.

      1. avatar Don says:

        Apparently you had your mind made up before you watched that. The idiot he almost hit jumped out in front of the truck, which was stupid, unprofessional, and looked suicidal. Bad idea, once that truck left the pavement the driver couldn’t have stopped if he wanted to, until it bogged down.

        Now it did look like he was reaching for something maybe, and maybe they train cops and feds to shoot if the perp is reaching for something, but anybody wanting to shoot some cops would have had his hand full when he came out the door of the vehicle. Bunch of cowardly ragtag, ill trained, power trip murderers. Then after they shoot the guy they leave him lay there and bleed out for ten minutes all the while lasering him in case he spasms involuntarily.

        My heros. I have to go puke now.

        1. avatar JAlan says:

          I think you’re the one with the made-up mind. You know how he could have avoided leaving the road? By not leading the cops on a chase. I think you’re making too many excuses for something that is clear-cut to everyone else.

        2. avatar Muih says:

          This was a dude who, repeatedly and on camera, said he wasn’t going to be taken to jail and would use force to prevent that. This guy wrote a novel about ranchers hanging local elected officials and getting into shooting wars with law enforcement and cowboys fighting the “jackbooted thugs”. He tried to run a law enforcement blockade and nearly hit someone in the process.He then got out, put his hands up, then put them into his pants.

          With a setup like that, you really want to go on the assumption that it was ill-trained power trip murderers out for blood that led to such a shooting? I mean, I’m normally not exactly a fan of the police, but this guy was looking to go out this way by all accounts.

          Hell, I was just through this place a couple weeks ago, I live and work in Oregon (in fact, just a few miles from where Ammon Bundy is held now in the Multnomah county jail). The police showed a level of restraint that absolutely astounded me.

        3. avatar Ross B. says:

          If I had been crouching behind a vehicle when a 3 ton truck came barreling towards my cover, I would jump away from the cover to avoid being crushed as a result of the possible collision. That Finnicum’s truck ended up missing the police vehicle and almost hit the guy anyway seems to be pure luck on all sides. Suicide don’t enter into it.

          As for Finnicum’s behavior, if you’ve got cops with guns pointed at you and you don’t want to be dead, you keep your hands far, far away from your body as visible as possible. If you want suicide by cop, you reach into your clothing.

          You wrote, “…maybe they train cops and feds to shoot if the perp is reaching for something…”. Yes, that’s exactly what they train cops to do. Been training them that way for decades. Maybe not in Britain, but here in the US of A, that’s exactly how they train cops.

          What I see is a particularly long and drawn out suicide by cop. I feel bad for the cops who shot him, bad for his wife, bad for his kids, bad for the researchers trying to restore bird habitat whose work has been set back years, and bad for everyone living nearby who had to deal with this whole facade.

        4. avatar JJ says:

          The left him there because there were still three armed persons in the truck. The three people in the truck had two ARs and a .38 special. It was absolutely proper and what YOU would have done if you were a sane cop.

          The fact is the dead guy was armed, no one denies it. he had stated he would resist arrest with deadly force. That is his own statements we all saw.

          I am not happy he is dead, but everything in his statements and the video point to a reasonable shooting by the cops. When you see the others arrested they alp their hands up. If the cops had wanted to “murder” the people they would all be dead too.

        5. avatar Special K says:

          One more point in support of Ross B’s post: Finicum should have stayed in the truck. Having just committed two felonies (fleeing the first stop and then trying to run flank around the blockade) the safest thing for everyone would have been for Finicum to stay in the vehicle and dangle his empty hands out of the window. The moment he left the truck his actions were subject to interpretation by law enforcement, and it is not a stretch to watch that video and come to the conclusion that Finicum is acting aggressively when his hands come down. If you do not want to risk being misunderstood, stay in the vehicle.

        6. avatar PavePusher says:

          Looks like the officer thought he was going to ram the blocking cars and was trying to get out from behind them.

          But I’m SURE you didn’t “(have) your mind made up before you watched that”.

          Right?

        7. avatar LisaD says:

          I wish there was sound. It almost looks like one of the officers (possibly the one behind him) shot him in the side and he was grabbing the wound. It seems to me if he was out to shoot officers he would have started shooting from the truck.

      2. avatar asnowrose says:

        Reaching for a gun or grabbing his side where he had been shot? It’s been said he was shot 3x. He grabs his side, staggers, grabs his side and then is taken down. Just saying. Of course they would release crapping video so nothing could be proved. LaVoy wore a sidearm in a holster on his right hip when he had a gun. It has been said he left the gun behind because he was going to a public meeting.

        1. avatar kerston says:

          He also had a shoulder holster on his left side. He is seen wearing it interviews just days before and he carried a 9mm in it.

        2. avatar Kathi says:

          I wish we could see they say he was shot in the back and grabbed his side. That’s when he was shot again. I have not seen anywhere on how many times he was shot and the autopsy isn’t out. I do know when I blew the video up and slowed it down. After they clear the vehicle, they go to him, throw his had to the side, call another guy over to shoot him in the face a couple times. That’s just execution to me. Whether he was right or wrong in what they were doing. Why would they shoot him in the face? There was no threat, they were all squatted down around him. Shouldn’t they have been trying to save him to stand trial. Isn’t that protocol? That was an exicution if I ever saw one, and I haven’t but…

      3. avatar Yawnz says:

        So cops should just shoot anyone who’s got a gun in their car? Right. Gotcha.

      4. avatar steve says:

        the idiot cop ran in front of the truck like a fool… and they are allowed to carry guns ..lmfao

    2. avatar robert says:

      Clearly LaVoy had his hands up once he exited the SUV, this changed once the officer that came from behind the truck pointed a gun and clearly the body movements of LaVoy show that this officer opened fire, Mr. LaVoy wasn’t reaching for anything except to react to the ongoing bullet fire from the officer, this clearly shows as LaVoy spun around to where he took the final kill shot to the face by the sniper behind him etc. Likewise, it is proper routine to secure any and all weapons once a man is down, this clearly did not happen, nor was their aid giving…… The federal officials alone with the Oregon state police waited a long time to even secure the remaining people within the SUV, while knowing full well that perhaps someone in their needed medical aid just as well….. For whatever reason this appears to be a staged execution……..

      1. avatar Chrispy says:

        The straws that you’re grasping for simply do not exist.

        1. avatar BurleyOleBear says:

          it’s obvious that;s what happened. Execution. Sorry your sheep eyes won’t see it.

      2. avatar FlamencoD says:

        Yeah, they should have given aid and not let him lie there bleeding to death. It really bothers me when cops shoot someone and then proceed to either a) let them bleed out, or b) aggressively continue to wrestle with them. If they were so concerned about his weapon, why didn’t they go secure it after shooting him, and secure him, after he was shot? Then provide aid. I agree he had his hands up at first, I can’t tell what happened that caused him to lower his hand to reach for something. Either he was reaching for something and then they shot, or they shot, and he started reaching or reacting to being shot and making himself a smaller target. Can’t tell from that view. Hopefully there’s some bodycam and dashcam video.

        1. avatar Chrispy says:

          Hypothetically…

          You’re a police officer, you’ve just engaged the driver of a vehicle that is occupied 3-5x in a shootout and the driver is down. You know the passengers are still in the vehicle and likely armed.

          Do you…

          A) Stay behind cover and issue verbal commands to the other potentially armed persons

          Or, B) Leave cover to address the driver who you are pretty confident is no longer a threat

        2. avatar Richard Nixon says:

          ’cause it was a head shot from 15 feet away. Executed, plain and
          simple. He grabbed for his side because he had been shot. Clearly
          had his hands up prior. No trained gunman reaches across his body
          for a holstered weapon.

      3. avatar Ing says:

        It looked to me like he brought his hands down because he stumbled — the way he moved, it looked to me like he was already being hit by bullets at that point. But with no sound and this faraway view, there’s no way to tell when they actually started firing.

        Whether it was murder or a justified shooting, the saddest thing is that it happened at all.

        It shouldn’t have come to this.

        1. avatar Roymond says:

          That’s the way I read his movements. But without dash cam or body cam video, it’s impossible to tell.

      4. avatar steve says:

        exactly and whos to say he hadnt been shot or trying to drop a weapon if he had it.. this whole deal was a trap a set up and they lied about it to levoy and the rest.. this was set up to kill not to negotiate anything.. this is why they stood their ground against these corrupt public cowards. it aint over by far.

    3. avatar Jared Young says:

      If the FBI had set out to ‘execute’ the leaders of this occupation, then the Bundy Bros. and the others wouldn’t have been taken alive. Second, you can watch on the longer FBI video where Ryan Payne, Occupier, Iraq Veteran, and a member of the Pacific Patriot Network, bails out of the vehicle — and then he safely surrenders and is arrested. Earlier witness testimony from Occupiers and witnesses in the very vehicle have described Payne and Finicum arguing over suicide by cop. Guess who made which choice?

      Third: Running off from the first blockade — where the Bundy Bros. surrendered! — and attempting to crash through the second, both incidents clearly visible, further illustrates his death wish. As many commentators have noted, reaching for his jacket pocket with the 9mm was absolutely suicidal. At this point, he shouldn’t have had his piece on him. He could’ve thrown it out the window at any point, or left in on the floor.

      Lastly, these were Oregon State Troopers not FBI HRT, and since they didn’t shoot Finicum when it was obvious that he wasn’t going to stop at the checkpoint, I applaud their restraint. As tragic as it was, this was as close to a textbook LEO action as could be imagined when facing someone who repeatedly, publicly, proclaimed his desire to be killed in a clash with LEOs on video.

    4. avatar Tom Jones says:

      I am so relieved that there is a video of this incident so the truth is out: Finicum reached for his waste where his gun was which lead to his being shot. Without the video, there would be a lot of people, including myself, who would always think that maybe the FBI just wanted to take Finicum’s life and they fabricated a story to cover up an unjustified shooting. Now, because of the video, the only people who still think the FBI was not justified in shooting him are the extremists. Not sure what it would have taken to make them think otherwise. They would probably find a way to blame the FBI for Finicum’s death even if he had managed to pull his gun out and get a shot off with his 45. I can hear it now, “He was shooting a warning shot up in the air!” The point is that there is no way to satisfy the fringe extremists. They are so biased that they cannot accept the truth. But at least the rest of us can see and accept the truth that Finicum’s own actions lead to his death. Period.

      1. avatar Conor McGregor says:

        Wow, puppet, drone, slave. Do these things mean anything to you? So quick to jump to a conclusion without the proper evidence. I will support what I have determined to be the rightful decision when the evidence is made available. You will be hiding in the basement while the rest of us are protecting you from either foreign or domestic enemies. Read about why we have the ability to protect ourselves from corrupt or unlawful governing.

  2. avatar fuque says:

    Tragic, as tragic as the direction this Country is heading…

    1. avatar truthspokenhere says:

      Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

      Good riddance.

      1. avatar larry says:

        1000% agree. The moron could posting on this blog post right now had just go out of the car and the first stop.

      2. avatar Ebby123 says:

        Sadly, you are correct.
        In my opinion, the only reason he raised his hands was to get clear of the vehicle so the other passengers wouldn’t get hit when the fireworks started.

        I’m only a 3rd hand spectator, but this seems like the most clear-cut case of premeditated suicide by cop that I’ve ever seen.
        –On record saying he “won’t be taken alive”.
        –On record screaming “shoot me” over and over again. (see passenger’s story)
        –Runs a road block full of armed men.
        –Jumps out of the vehicle fully armed.
        –Continues running despite (I presume) screamed commands to freeze.
        –Drops his hands into his coat/waistband while covered by at least 2 men with guns.

        Premeditated Suicide.

        1. avatar Yawnz says:

          Runs around a roadblock that was behind a blind curve.

          Walks, not jumps, out of the truck with his hands up.

        2. If there was sound and clarity in the FBI video, which intentionally there was not, and if the other videos on the enforcement officers and vehicles would be shown, there wouldn’t be a clouded debate of LaVoy’s death. It’s very clear he was executed, he was intentionally shot in the face, he wasn’t being subdued he was being taken out, plan and simple.

  3. avatar jwm says:

    You’ll need a talking, burning bush to convince Pwerserge it wasn’t a cold blooded execution.

    1. avatar Mecha75 says:

      Considering the amount of snow on the ground. It most definitely was cold.

    2. avatar Robert says:

      Maybe our boy Serge climbed out from behind his commando keyboard and is headed to Oregon to avenge the m̶u̶r̶d̶e̶r̶ justified shoot of this p̶a̶t̶r̶i̶o̶t̶ nutjob? Maybe?

      1. avatar Swarf says:

        He says he totes would if we buy him a new leg.

        Look Pwr, I’m sorry about your leg and all, but you need to back it up to an Insufferable Dick level of about 4. I’d say that’s where most of us are; too much Dick to be accepted in polite society, but not enough to to get shot by our Mothers.

        You’re at about 11.

        1. avatar PavePusher says:

          I am stealing that, and I’m not even sorry about it. 8>)

        2. avatar jwm says:

          Damn, that’s good.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          Yeah, ask me how my leg got jacked up…

          But in actually relevant news, this could go either way. I see him getting out of the truck with his hands up. He reaches down, but the important question is why. He had plenty of time to reach his sidearm, if that was his intent, he would have drawn it. I want to see the autopsy, and the body cam videos of those two cops.

          I also want confirmation of what happened during the initial stop. If the cops fired first, as the eye witness claims, and this caused them to run, everything afterwards is irrelevant.

        4. avatar Chrispy says:

          You just got to see an unedited, half hour long video, FROM THE FBI no less showing the entire thing play out. And in LESS THAN 48 HOURS.

          This is no Waco or Ruby Ridge. If they had something to hide they wouldn’t have even made this available to view.

          But don’t worry, I’m sure they’ll get right on that request for you…

        5. avatar Randy Taylor says:

          “If the cops fired first, as the eye witness claims, and this caused them to run, everything afterwards is irrelevant.

          The same eye witnesses that claimed he was executed while on his knees? Yeah, they seem credible enough.

        6. avatar Mecha75 says:

          Chrispy,

          The video was nice. It help answer some questions. The problem is it created more questions. The video does show that Mark McConnell’s version was not accurate. But we knew that was hearsay. At no point does it show Finicum charging OSP. Nor does the video show the official FBI account of a “shoot out” as that requires both parties to be shooting. It was clearly one sided. In addition to that, it does mostly corroborate Victoria Sharps account. However, she said they were being shot at for a short bit of time after Finicum was shot. You can clearly see that there are some large puffs of smoke appearing around the right side of the truck. Were these lethal rounds or the non-lethal rounds the FBI said were fired during that time frame? Was it a mix of lethal and non lethal? For that we need to see either clear pics of the vehicle and or clearer video of the incident. Then there is the case of a mysterious white splotch that instantly appears on the dashboard or windshield at 1:09 of the unedited version. Was that always there or was it a result of a gunshot?

          Now lets look at the actual shooting.. Finicum had a holstered sidearm on his right in all the vids/pics of him at Malheur. Why for this car trip did he take off that holster and put the 9mm pistol in his left coat pocket? I concede that he may have done just that. But I also think it is more likely that he was shot on his left side. You see him reach down with both hands to his left and put them back up instead of where he always wore a holster. And then he did it again and kept his hands there for a second. that is when he was shot and killed. If he was shot, it could have happened at the 1:09 point of the full vid or right before he first put his hands down. The autopsy and any body cam footage will determine that part. Now I do not know about you or Finicum, but I practice drawing from my holster routinely to develop muscle memory as I highly doubt I will be thinking during a high stress situation. And you cannot tell me that this was not a high stress situation. If he was like me or even practice drawing once in a blue moon, he would have instinctively went for his right hip.. But he went for his left side instead.

        7. avatar jwm says:

          OK, pwrserge, how did you leg get messed up?

        8. avatar Jared Young says:

          Mecha75: ” Finicum had a holstered sidearm on his right in all the vids/pics of him at Malheur.”

          False. All the pictures I’ve seen have him at the refuge have him wearing a shoulder holster under his LEFT shoulder. If the troopers saw those pictures before hand, then saw him reach for it after the stop . . .

          http://media.al.com/news_impact/photo/robert-lavoy-finicum-22d2f81cc2cb128d.jpg

          http://www.opb.org/images/upload/c_limit,g_north_west,h_1000,q_90,w_640/Robert_LaVoy_Finicum_icdlrd.jpg

          You can see the stone of the Malhuer Refuge in that last pic. As to Finicum “charging” the Oregon State Troopers, isn’t that precisely what he is doing in his vehicle instead of stopping . . . as the Bundy Bros. did? As Victoria Sharp stated in her testimony, Ryan Payne argued with Finicum and THEN BAILED OUT of the vehicle because he did not want to play suicide by cop! She also stated that Finicum exited the truck and yelled repeatedly “Shoot me!”

        9. avatar Mecha75 says:

          Jared, we apparently saw completely different pictures.

          Here you can see his leather holster with a revolver. clearly and plain as day and at the preserve.

          https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_908w/2010-2019/Wires/Images/2016-01-15/Getty/505121290.jpg&w=1484

        10. avatar Jared Young says:

          Mecha75, I’m not contesting that there were plenty of pictures with his cowboy rig on his right, but that wasn’t “all” of the pictures. There were also many pictures taken, including one of his farewell videos, in which his shoulder holster in clearly visible.

        11. avatar Jared Young says:

          Everyone should see The Orgonian’s enhancement of the video. From about :32 on you can actually make out his drawing a pistol from his left should holster:

          http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/watch_weve_slowed_down_the_vid.html

    3. avatar Roy says:

      I’m guessing some comments got moderated out. Can’t find the comments you guys are talking about.

      1. avatar Swarf says:

        See: every other thread on this subject.

    4. avatar Hannibal says:

      I was just coming here to see if he is still maintaining his “hands up, don’t shoot” BS narrative.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        I see hands up, I don’t see him get a gun even though he had plenty of time to draw one.

        I want to know where in that video the shots were fired and I want to see body cams not a grainy chopper camera where we can’t make out details. Oh, and audio is not optional.

        So yeah…

        Hands up, don’t shoot.

        In situations like this, cops should be considered guilty until proven innocent. When you are granted authority above common citizens, you have responsibilities above common citizens.

        1. avatar Jared Young says:

          pwrsrge, if the intent was to execute the leaders of this farce, then why did the Bundy Bros. survive? You can watch the part where Ryan Payne bails out of the vehicle and safely surrenders, because he wants no part in Finicum’s suicidal charge.

          You seem unwilling to acknowledge why and how the others safely surrendered and just how many chances Finicum had to surrender peacefully. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

        2. avatar Tile Floor says:

          In criminal court police are entitled to the same constitutionally guaranteed presumption of innocence that any other citizen is. As they, or anyone else, should be.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          Sorry bro, you can have qualified immunity or the presumption of innocence. Anything else sets up everyone who’s not a LEO as a second class citizen. Higher authority has to come with higher burdens.

        4. avatar Roymond says:

          “When you are granted authority above common citizens, you have responsibilities above common citizens.”

          This, without question.

        5. avatar Ross B. says:

          The police were justified shooting at the truck as it approached the roadblock. They did not. Finnicum jumped, ran, and reached into his coat instead of moving slowly and keeping his hands completely visible at all times. According to the girl, he was demanding that they shoot him. Combined with the video… it’s 100% clear that you watched Lavoy commit suicide by cop.

          It was an incredibly selfish and stupid thing to do, but he went for it because… yay for civil war? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    5. avatar Anonymous says:

      In the video, Finicum puts his hands back up after they were lowered. By this time, they were already shooting at him. Why would he put his hands back up?

      The hammonds were harassed by the BLM. The BLM made a case against the hammonds for actions dating back 24 years ago. Why wait 24 years to make a case against someone? A BLM employee said, on record, that land is routinely burned by ranchers and sometimes crosses over on BLM land and the BLM didn’t prosecute. Why only prosecute the hammonds? The jury found that damages of BLM land was less than $1000. The terrorist law pinned on them is for terrorists – not people clearing their own land or lighting backfires to save their land. The court ruled that when the hammonds sell “their” land – they have to sell it to the BLM. This means they can not hand it down to their children. Meanwhile, senior Hammond gets to die in prison over a matter less than $1000. The occupation of the federal refuge house was a result of these actions.

      Now whether this guy was reaching or not – I could care less. He died and he died trying to protest these actions. – But it’s fine. You guys can amass the totality of your cooperative intellect to reach the simple conclusion that it was a “good shoot” and that pwrserge is being too sour about it. Great job guys.

      1. avatar Dave says:

        Well, that’s the Hammond’s side of the story. There was a long list of stuff they did that they plea’d away. They were no saints and should have been jailed long ago for threatening torture of little kids.

        Google if you dare.

        1. avatar Anonymous says:

          This isn’t any “side of the story.” This is the results of the court case.

          Also – the wildlife “bird refuge” was created by the government. It didn’t exist there prior. The FWS (fish and wildlife service) has been purchasing all the land around the refuge. This land purchased by the FWS eventually surrounded the hammond’s ranch. The FWS in the 70s told the local ranchers that their cattle were detrimental to the refuge (which was created by the government). Fees went up, fewer issued grazing permits were granted. The irrigation system made a hundred years ago by ranchers was claimed by the refuge. The FWS decided to build some fences around the water so hammond’s cows would have to drink somewhere else. But don’t worry – when senior hammond dies in prison for the less than $1000 of damages incurred, eventually all his land can be handed over to the BLM exactly as planned.

  4. avatar Corey says:

    He’s right handed and usually carries a revolver on his right side, not sure why’d he be grabbing the other way unless they were already shooting and he was struck..

    1. avatar Vv ind says:

      Good point. The FBI had better have a lot more and better footage than this. As far as I can tell this isn’t good enough to clear them on this shoot

      1. avatar Mecha75 says:

        What isnt good enough is that there is no way to tell if the FBI shot at them during the first stop. Which Victoria Sharp claimed was the reason they took off. But i also didnt see anyone get out and was left behind like both witnesses claimed happened. Maybe it was because the foliage obscured it when it happened. As for the shooting itself. LaVoy almost hit that OSP officer. Which normally would end up with the vehicle looking like my paper targets after a range day. Instead they held their fire.

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          LaVoy almost hit that OSP officer.

          If you look at the video, that officer actually jumped out in front of Finicum. How in the world can you possibly expect a person driving a 3,500 pound vehicle through 12+ inches of snow on the shoulder to avoid hitting someone who suddenly jumped out in front of you? Of additional significance, the police set up the roadblock on a blind curve. As Finicum rounded the corner, he suddenly saw a roadblock and could not possibly stop in time. His only option to avoid plowing into those cars and endangering the lives of everyone was to veer off the road to the right or left. He chose the right side.

          No one can claim that the cops had a right to use deadly force on Finicum for “driving his deadly car at them” … any more so than I can claim a right to use deadly force on someone who drives their car at my car parked in the middle of the road on a blind curve.

          Did the cops have a right to use deadly force for other reasons? I don’t know. I need officer body camera footage and sound to decide.

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Correction: LaVoy Finicum chose to veer to the left side to avoid plowing into the cars that made up the roadblock.

        3. avatar Mecha75 says:

          I have seen vids of police unloading on and killing the occupants of cars that have done less than what LaVoy did while driving into the snow. And most of them walked without even a slap on the wrist.

        4. avatar PavePusher says:

          uncommon_sense, Looks like the officer thought he was going to ram the blocking cars and was trying to get out from behind them.

        5. avatar Joe R. says:

          Pave,

          Looks like Finicum exited the vehicle to keep the rest of the occupants from being shot.

      2. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        Good thing for the officer that the standard in this country isn’t “presumed guilty until proven innocent”, then, huh?

        1. avatar Chadwick P. says:

          It cerainly isn’t for “the law” but normal lowly subjects are guilty until their lawyer proves otherwise.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Only common citizens. Given their higher authority, law enforcement must be held to a higher standard. I would say flipping the burden of proof is rather appropriate.

      3. avatar Steve says:

        Precisely; it was a PLANNED operation with a friggin plane in the skies to record it… any idiot who believes there aren’t further videos WITH audio is just… I can’t even.

    2. avatar Dave says:

      In some photos the perp was shown wearing a shoulder holster with a semi in it. Some a rifle in his lap, some a western rig on his hip.

      Running a road block put the others in danger. Lavoy was a punk.

  5. avatar Vv ind says:

    Fleeing, back turned, hand down and possibly reaching for something.

    1. avatar Steve says:

      Watch the video a bit more; the same moment his hands come down to one side is the same moment an officer scrambles at the front of vehicles running away… safe money is on he was taking cover after he heard a gunshot, a gunshot we know FOR A FUCKING FACT that didn’t come from the deceased or any of his passengers.

      Explain that.

  6. avatar TroyBilt says:

    Did the person that jumped in front of the car at 7 sec into the video get hit?

    1. avatar Mecha75 says:

      No. I watched that part alot. He dove out of the way and covered in snow.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Cause snow will stop them boolits.

        1. avatar Yawnz says:

          So why did he run into the path of the truck then?

        2. avatar Vv ind says:

          My guess is the officer thought that the car he was hiding behind was going to be hit

        3. avatar Yawnz says:

          Yeah, so he chose to run INTO the path of the truck that had already crossed lanes and onto the shoulder. Such good, much idea, wow.

        4. avatar Hannibal says:

          Yawnz, get real. What are you suggesting here? That he purposefully ran into the path of a vehicle?

          Not without a time machine. You need to get a better idea of how the ooda loop works. He saw the truck headed right for the roadblock at ramming speed. He evaluated that it was going to hit, and decided he did not want to be there. Like a goalie, he had to choose left or right. He chose. That was probably about the SAME time the driver’s own ooda loop set him to go left. Once that decision was made- for both of them- it was only a matter of which would get there first. Human reaction time and agility MAY have allowed the leo to survive by stopping just before he got in front of the truck, but I doubt it. I bet it was luck.

        5. avatar Joe R. says:

          That’s not flat ground, but the helicopter view makes it look like it is.

          He could’ve exited the vehicle on a slope, and kept moving. The diving cop didn’t stop his movement into the path of the truck except by falling.

    2. avatar Roy says:

      Supposedly only three shots were fired. Were all three of those shot by the trooper that was almost ran over? The trooper that was almost ran over is one of the two closest to Finicum when he’s shot. Coincidence?

      1. avatar Mecha75 says:

        No, that officer stumbled behind cover. Another officer came up to him and appears to ask him if he is okay and then continued towards and engages Finicum. Not the snow diver.

  7. avatar Mecha75 says:

    Saw the vid. Glad i reserved my judgement. victoria sharp was mistaken on the amount of gun shots. OSP had every right to unload on the truck when it almost plowed into one of their officers. They did not. The only shots i saw fired were when LaVoy went for his pocket. Then i saw flash bangs and concussion grenades go off around the vehicle. I did not catch any muzzle flashes. Maybe others did.

    1. avatar CJ says:

      The driver clearly attempted to avoid hitting the guy who jumped in front of his vehicle.

      1. avatar TroyBilt says:

        From what I see the driver no longer had any control of the vehicle at the point the officer jumped out from behind the truck.

      2. avatar Defens says:

        Or, another perspective, was trying to make an end run around the roadblock but the snow was too deep.

      3. avatar Hannibal says:

        Probably. Or, at the least, I don’t think he intended to hit him.

        But we’re looking at clear drone footage. It’s a different perspective when the truck is barreling towards you at 30 mph.

      4. avatar Jjimmyjonga says:

        the guy was for sure not stopping, nor slowing when he plowed into snow bank, almost striking the LEO (whom I am guessing was jumping out of the way as it appears the vehicle he was hiding behind was about to be rammed) – that is a real and reasonable threat of harm – that is assault, and probably battery, on top of any other felonies the guy just prior committed. It certainly did not appear that the LEO were eager to open fire, but rather acting in self defense of a reasonably perceived threat – a fact we all harp on is ones right on this site. This guy put himself in this position, and forced the LEO hand to make an instant life or death decision.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      There’s a bullet hole in the windshield too. That was clearly justified, and probably fired by the officer he drove at.

      1. avatar Yawnz says:

        You mean the one that ran out in front of him as he clearly tried to go around the roadblock? If he wanted to run someone over, he wouldn’t have needed to change lanes, move onto the shoulder of said lane, etc.

      2. avatar Mecha75 says:

        in the longer full video, that “bullet hole” suddenly appears at 1:09 when the vehicle was stopped in the first location before they made a break for it.

    3. avatar Special K says:

      At about 10:46 of the FBI tape there is a pretty decent could of snow knocked from the truck that looks like it would be consistent with it being hit by a projectile. Would be nice if the camera was closer to the action, but Finicum’s hands definitely come down to his belt area. It certainly was reasonable to open fire at that point.

      1. avatar Special K says:

        Cloud of snow. Damn autocorrect.

      2. avatar Kris says:

        Did he reach for his belt because he was being shot at? I can’t tell. Definitely reaching for his belt, and very suddenly.

        1. avatar Special K says:

          It’s impossible to tell from that distance. If I go frame by frame from 9:26 to 9:27 of the FBI video it looks like Finicum’s hands are dropping to his belt as the leo to the right of the screen is drawing his pistol. I think I see Finicum’s hands at his belt before the leo is fully extended, although that wouldn’t preclude a shot being fired before the agent was fully extended, that technique is pretty widely taught. Wish the camera was closer.

    4. avatar Anonymous says:

      Please explain how Ryan Bundy was wounded by gunfire then.

      1. avatar Special K says:

        I’m thinking a round may have been fired into the vehicle at about 10:46. Lots of uncertainty in this video though.

      2. avatar Mecha75 says:

        One account (cannot remember whose) was that he was not shot in the shoulder but was hit by shrapnel.

    5. avatar Steve says:

      “OSP had every right to unload on the truck when it almost plowed into one of their officers”

      If I don’t have the same “right” if a road rager does the same towards me, then neither does PD, quit perpetuating that bull.

      1. avatar Theone says:

        I am sorry, but you are not a road block designed to stop someone fleeing…. His first, biggest, and fatal mistake was running in the first place. I guess he thought he could get away with it like OJ….

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Fleeing an attempted murder is not a crime. According to witnesses shots at the initial stop caused him to flee.

        2. avatar Tile Floor says:

          Pwrserge- The same witnesses that said he had his hands up and on his knees?

          Youre looking for any bit of “evidence” to build your narrative. As JWM stated earlier, nothing will convince you this was anything other than government sanctioned murder. We get it, for god’s sake.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          I already said what will convince me. Synched up audio showing no gun shots until after his hands went down will make me shut up. I’ll still be pissed, but the cops will be legally if not morally in the clear.

        4. avatar Rambeast says:

          @Tile Floor When you’re standing in deep snow like he was, you look like you’re on your knees.

      2. avatar int19h says:

        >> If I don’t have the same “right” if a road rager does the same towards me

        You actually do. If you have reasonable belief that someone is trying to kill you by ramming you with a car, that’s a valid justification for use of lethal force to stop them pretty much everywhere. I would dare say that seeing a truck coming straight at you while speeding up counts as such “reasonable belief” – you’re not expected to stay there all the way up to contact just in case they turn away at the last second.

    6. avatar BDub says:

      I am surprised the agents didnt just light the truck up. The officer that looks like he jumped in front of the truck probably thought the vehicle he was taking cover behind was about to get plowed into and decided to jump out from behind it, then LaVoy’s vehicle swerved and it was an out of the frying pan into the fire moment.

      As far as LaVoy being shot. that looked completely unnecessary. He is clearly trying to hold his hands up, but walking in the snow and trying to maintain your balance with hands in the air is not easy, and its natural to instinctively lower your hands when you feel about to fall. You can see him doing it several time.

      Now as to why an officer runs out of the wood and appears to shoot him in the back, well, I got nothing. It looks like what it looks like, a needless police shooting.

      1. avatar int19h says:

        >> As far as LaVoy being shot. that looked completely unnecessary. He is clearly trying to hold his hands up, but walking in the snow and trying to maintain your balance with hands in the air is not easy, and its natural to instinctively lower your hands when you feel about to fall. You can see him doing it several time.

        As an officer on the scene, you have contact with the suspect who just blew through one barricade and barely avoided ramming another, who you know for a fact is armed, and who had previously repeatedly stated on camera that he’s willing to go down shooting. You have already shouted “stop! hands up!” at him, and yet he is 1) still running at you, and 2) drops his hands down to where his handgun is. Are you seriously saying that you would wait long enough to definitely ascertain that he’s “just balancing”? Would you be willing to apply the same standard to your own DGU?

  8. avatar Nate H. says:

    Pretty cut and dry. I watched it earlier. He was reaching into his coat for something. They were justified in shooting him. What a fool.

    1. avatar Mecha75 says:

      They would have been justified if they turned his truck into a collander after he tried to go around the roadblock and barely missed the OSP officer. But they didnt. They showed amazing restraint at that point. Why wait until he was several feet away to “execute him”?

      1. avatar Tile floor says:

        I know, let’s examine this.

        They’re being pursued by police and federal agents. At least one of them has a warrant, and they know he’s in the car. Lawful reason for a stop.

        Due to the media, law enforcement knows he is armed and has made statements essentially saying he wouldn’t be taken alive. So their response is elevated and they have a plan in place.

        Vehicle tries to run, which is a danger to public safety, and sees a roadblock and tries to go around it, despite there being officers on foot there, endangering the lives of law enforcement and the occupants of the vehicle.

        Then he gets out and instead of obeying verbal commands reaches into his pants. All of you who are speculating and blustering about the cross draw vs not cross draw, it’s irrelevant. Just because he does or does not “usually” do something doesn’t guarantee he doesn’t have a gun tucked in his waistband. Due to the totality of the circumstances the police shoot him.

        Plenty of opportunities were given to surrender peacefully, and if the police wanted to “murder” him they would have lit that car up at the roadblock.

        To those that may accuse me of bias you are incorrect. I’ll dime out a bad police shoot any day. But this does not appear to be one.

        1. avatar Chrispy says:

          A million times, this.

        2. avatar Mecha75 says:

          Was it cross draw or was he already shot in the left side? can you answer that question? I cannot and the video isn’t clear enough to answer that. I am not being biased. I want answers to valid questions. This video already shows the FBI lied in their initial reports of the incident. Then we have a hearsay “driver” that was miraculously released corroborating the FBI account (which we now know was a lie). Victoria Sharp never said that Finicum was shot on his knees with his hands up. That was Ammon Bundy and we all know he wasn’t there and there is no way he would have even seen what occurred. With the exception of how many shots were used on Finicum while laying face down in the snow (which an autopsy will help determine the veracity of her claim there), Victoria Sharp has been pretty accurate. Was there shots at the first stop that cause them to flee? Don’t know, the video isn’t good to say one way or the other. I do know a white splotch appears at 1:09 of the full video during the first stop and I could not see at any time prior. That splotch remained there for the entirety of the video after that time. Was it evidence of a gunshot? I dont know. It could be something else that the camera just didn’t pick up until the 1:09 mark of the video.

  9. avatar Don says:

    The video is too far away for anything other than speculation but it looked to me like he first had his hands up while backing away. As he turned back he appears to be reaching for something on his right side. If there was a weapon on his right hip then it’s a no brainier what he was doing.

    1. avatar Corey says:

      It looks as if he’s reaching toward his left side..?

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        Yes, his left side.

      2. avatar Dave says:

        Shoulder holster.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Under a zipped up heavy winter jacket? Tell me another one.

    2. avatar Anonymous says:

      I’ll tell you what he was doing… He exited the vehicle with his hands up. As soon as the officer in the lower right saw him – he started shooting. Finicum was “reaching” … or cringing up as I would word it – at the bullet holes going through his body. While he was keeling over and slipping deeper in the snow the guy from behind finished him off. It is exactly how sharp described it.

      Watch the guy in the lower right – repeated shots from him (pistol). Probably because he was offended that an FBI agent was almost run over. This definitely also called for the barrage of bullets into the vehicle.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        That’s a more reasonable explanation than trying to outdraw a police officer. Can somebody tell me who the hell carries a sidearm on their LEFT side when they are RIGHT handed?

        I want to see body cam footage. This looks to me like a man who was shot several times before going down.

        1. avatar Randy Taylor says:

          I do, especially while driving. Cross draw is faster at getting a gun up, and pointed at the driver window.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          I wear a shoulder rig these days with my M11, but the point is that it’s UNDER a zipped up jacket. You don’t reach for a gun that’s UNDER your clothing by going directly to the gun.

          Right now there are two valid explanations.

          1. He was reaching for his shoulder rig.
          2. He was reacting to a lower abdominal wound.

          Either an audio synched version of this video or an autopsy will tell us what actually happened. If he was reaching for a wound, that makes this murder, not a justified shoot.

        3. avatar Garrison Hall says:

          Given the propensity for police to write the narrative to fit their own purposes (i.e., the total fabrication of events in the Chicago shooting, for example), I’m deeply suspicious of any police account. Was Finicum reaching for a gun or instinctively reaching to cover a bullet wound? Looking at how the officer had his weapon extended could very well be an indication that Finicum was not reaching for a weapon. If that is, in fact, true do we really think the cops are going to admit to something like that? Not likely.

  10. avatar fuque says:

    The drone disturbs me … I have the nagging feeling that it was armed.

    1. avatar Mecha75 says:

      Did they say it was drone footage or a helicopter? I cannot tell. Probably ignorance due to the fact i have never flown a drone nor am i an expert in their video feeds.

      1. avatar fuque says:

        Im assuming its a drone.. easier, and cheaper on the budget, but if it is a chopper, I suspect it was still tooled up. If they have it, they use it.

        1. avatar Robert says:

          It’s a Cessna. That’s why it’s in a constant orbit instead of stopping in a hover or reversing course like a helo or drone would/could do.

        2. avatar Chris in SC says:

          Most .gov UAVs are fixed wing. I doubt it would have been a Cessna, but there are dozens of other military versions available.

        3. avatar Robert says:

          As I’m native and lifelong resident of the fine state of Oregon, as well as having experience with these aircraft, I’ll standby my comment that this is a State Police Cessna. That said, it could be a fixed wing drone, but I highly doubt it in this case. Why? Because the OSP has had their aircraft staged at Burns and John Day Airports for the duration of this cluster. So could it be a drone? Yes. Likely in this case? No.

        4. avatar Big B says:

          I was thinking helicopter. Most helicopters still circle, they don’t hover for very long (there is an aerodynamic reason for this as well as it’s requires more pilot concentration).
          As for the shooting, I’ll still hold my judgement but one thing is for sure. If you are surrendering, that’s NOT the way to do it!!!

        5. avatar BDub says:

          FBI has a fleet of planes specifically equipped for this kind of thing.

          http://tinyurl.com/zgvu93a

    2. avatar jwm says:

      There’s no legit reason for a drone to be armed over American soil. An unmanned vehicle doesn’t need to defend itself. It can film til it’s destroyed and the perp can be arrested for vandalising public property.

      1. avatar fuque says:

        Id like to believe you.. But they dont have the capability to protect themselves.. they are about 2 mil bucks a piece, too much to ditch, but cheaper than choppers…

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          A *new* Robinson R66 Turbine Police Helicopter is a little over 1 million new, half the price of that 2 million dollar drone…

    3. avatar Muih says:

      On what basis do you believe that?

    4. avatar James69 says:

      see all the data around the edges that is blacked out………..drone. With enough time we can figure out what brand/model software.

      1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

        Yup. Also note, it never stops to hover like a chopper would.

        1. avatar Robert says:

          The State Police here in Oregon fly Cessna’s, and that’s what this is. Google up traffic footage from aircraft and you’ll see the display around the edge from the FLIR/Camera. The data displayed on the edges is nothing but headings, altitude, FLIR angles, speed, etc.

      2. avatar Ross B. says:

        The FBI says that the video is from an “aircraft”. The censored blocks around the outside of the video are covering equipment identifiers, aircraft location, altitude, speed, heading, and could also contain info on camera orientation and other settings (focus distance, etc.). In any case, covering up the data is “by the book”. Probably had to get approval to leave the UTC time in place.

        That information would be present in many official surveillance camera outputs that are expected to be used as evidence, and it doesn’t matter whether mounted on a manned, unmanned or even airborne vehicle.

    5. avatar Mark N. says:

      That is a helicopter shot with a gyro stabilized camera. Small drones aren’t fast enough, the big ones fly too high and can’t circle like this camera did.

      1. avatar MurrDog says:

        Yeah. Every video of every car chase ever filmed by a police helicopter has that same info around the edges. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was filmed from a FLIR system with a daytime camera.

    6. avatar Kevin says:

      Please remove your tinfoil hat. It’s un becoming.

  11. avatar syms says:

    You would think the FBI could get the date right… Otherwise looks like a good shoot

    1. avatar Ross B. says:

      Look at the time. That clock is set to UTC (what used to be GMT or zulu) and the time is exactly when other people said that the feces hit the rotating air circulation device. 00:35 (35 minutes after midnight) on Wednesday 2015-01-27 in Greenwich is 4:35pm pacific time on Tuesday 2015-01-26.

      If it’s a fake, it’s a really good fake.

      1. avatar syms says:

        Was thinking they would be on local time, but that makes alot of sense

  12. avatar Todgerkopf says:

    Rebellion, rebellion I say…chirp, chirp…what, no takers? Looks like a bunch of attention whoring whackjobs who weren’t wanted by either the people at large or those specifically involved in the original legal dispute got theirselves shot the hell up. Another win for the fed and another hit to…not ranchers and grazing rights but yes, you guessed it, 2A. Probably the BATFE will add another initial.

    1. avatar Special K says:

      Sadly…This.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        There’s nothing sad about avoiding a civil war. Our first one cost six hundred thousand soldiers dead.

        Think of the toll in fighters and civilians in a modern American civil war.

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          And 2.5 million casualties, plus immense property damage. In a population one-tenth of what we have now. Multiply accordingly, and then add 30-50% for the increased lethality of modern weapons Do you want to see a war here with perhaps 35-40 million casualties?

        2. avatar Special K says:

          The sad part is a man losing his life in the process of acting in a horribly foolish manner inconsistent with the behavior of 99.9% of gun owners, and the resulting use of the these actions and the occupation of the refuge against regular citizens.

          As for a Civil War: This was never going to start one. As of this writing Finicum’s Youtube Channel has 1,801 subscribers. Only three videos on that channel have more than 10,000 views. When this topic came up at my workplace today, no one knew his name. No one cared about this guy. Even if he had been gunned down in cold blood, next to no one would have cared.

        3. avatar SouthernPhantom says:

          It will come, and sooner than expected. Of that I have no doubt. What happens in this country will make the Syrian war look like a round of sporting clays.

        4. avatar BDub says:

          There will never be another full scale conventional war on U.S. soil, civil or otherwise. The next Civil war will be an unending insurgency – which the government unironically would welcome as a ready-made and sustainable pretense for expanding State power, Patriot Act style.

  13. avatar SteveO says:

    Maybe I’ve missed reports from LE press conferences, but is this shooting considered an active investigation? Interesting method and manner to have both of the videos released without some type of “official” announcement, especially from the agencies involved.

    1. avatar Chadwick P. says:

      Because the dead guy is white… If he was black or a muslim they would have sat on the tape for a week or more while blaming a white guy.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      Maybe they learned something- that every time they try and ‘investigate’ a shooting without releasing video everyone screams their bloody heads off.

      At this point it’s most important that people see this wasn’t the feds executing someone like one of the witnesses tried to claim.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Except that if they wanted to prove that, they released the wrong footage. Without audio to synch up the gun shots to the images, there are plenty of explanations that could still make this a government execution of a surrendering suspect.

        If there were shots fired before he puts his hands down, it’s felony murder, end of story.

        1. avatar Mecha75 says:

          We need better video, the autopsy reports and pics, as well as photos or video of the damage to the vehicle (including that white splotch that first makes an appearance on the dashboard or windshield at the 1:09 mark of the full video and remains through out the video).

          The video does mostly support the 18 year old’s version of events. The official story was that there was a shoot out (no one shot except the LEOs) and then it was he charged the officers (except he charged to where no office was and at a really slow pace. Then he was shot after stopping any forward momentum for a second or 2). They release the video and changed the official story to state he was going for a 9mm semi automatic pistol in his coat pocket. On his left side? when he holsters on his right? We all carry here, does that sound like something you would do? It could have happened, but I do not see that as likely. It appears to me he had his hands up, was shot on the left side and put his hands down in a reflex to the pain. Stuck them up again when warned that they would shoot again and then the pain got worse and he put them down to the wound. that is when they unloaded on him.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          That’s my take as well. I’m not quite ready to throw people under the bus, but this video does not match what the cops were saying initially.

          And yes. Cops that shoot a suspect who puts his hands up ARE guilty until proven innocent.

  14. avatar DMZ says:

    We can definitely bust the version of the story that says he was on his knees, hands on head, before being executed with a shot to the head.

    Hopefully the court will see clearer bodycams from the officers but it’s clear he didn’t go down until after his hands were down. Very likely a justifiable shoot.

    1. avatar Xanderbach says:

      Admittedly- I have to agree. He did appear to reach for something on his left side, and did so twice before they shot him. I think the police showed restraint. I was hoping for a cut-and-dry, “look what they did to a US citizen” case, but it looks like a justified shoot.

  15. avatar Brocus says:

    A thug who got put down before he could become a murderer.

  16. avatar Puyallup Devil_Doc says:

    You know, it sure looks like a gun in his hand when he gets out of the truck. Right hand..

  17. avatar slowroll says:

    this video isn’t clear enough to mean much of anything, no sound and no in close detail and its low res, we cant tell who shot when, was he reaching for a fire arm and they shot him or did they shoot him and he covered his wound or did they shoot at him and then he went for a gun. I am not inclined to trust a damn thing fbi says they have a long history of dishonesty and they escalated this when it was winding down and there was little to no chance of violence, even if everything the fbi claims is true they made the confrontation happen and bare a large part if not all the responsibility for his death.

    1. avatar James69 says:

      They had to send a message, what message I don’t know.

      1. avatar slowroll says:

        this was almost certainly politically motivated, the Bundy’s embarrassed the feds and it looked like they might have success in negotiations and get the Hammond’s released and the feds want them to stay in prison so they could take their land and make the Bundy’s pay.

  18. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    WELL-I hate to give the devil his due but it looks like a “good” shoot. Except the feds created the drama in the 1st place. But I thought the “occupiers” should have left weeks ago when those 2 local ranchers were screwed. The feds ain’t givin’ up land-hell maybe the so-called 1st nation folks have a better claim than outsiders…I got no EZ answers.

    1. avatar Mecha75 says:

      no shoot is good if you ask me. I prefer to say valid shoot.

      1. avatar Former Water Walker says:

        Hence the quotation marks Mecha…not a big fan of the po-leece-local or federal. And yeah I doubt they would fire on the low-life black lives splatter bunch. Kid gloves even if suspected of being armed…

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      Tends to be how I look at it. It looks like the shoot itself was justified and probably seemed necessary in the moment. But the incident itself was not necessary.

      Legal? Yes. Wise? No. Unfortunately that tends to be how government works in these sorts of situations.

  19. avatar mark says:

    Link to the video as presented on the FBI youtube channel. It’s slightly clearer and doesn’t have the biased writing inserted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

  20. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    I see the potential for two scenarios. The first is he got out of the truck and started walking, and was eventually engaged by the guy by the tree and the guy by the road. He then went to his belt in a futile attempt to draw his gun. The second one is he gets out of the truck with his hands up. He clears away from the truck and then reaches for his gun. The guy by the tree and the guy near the road then engage him.

    It looks like these guys have way more restraint than the LAPD who lit up two older women in a truck delivering papers.

    1. avatar Mack Bolan says:

      Thats close to how I see it.

      Watch as he exits the vehicle and how he is walking. Hands up facing the road towards the guy he swerved to miss. Walking confidently, normal steps in a general direction.

      The moment before his hands drop, he is staggering as if something happened that stunned or confused him. It was as if he was trying to decide which way to turn. Both his hands drop towards his left side. He carried right side and was right handed. He wasn’t a cross draw guy and there are a million photos of him strapped that way, always the same.

      My bet is that he took fire from the agent in front, who missed more than once as he retreats on an angle to the right before striking him in the hip area. The agent in the woods, opened up with a miss which would have caused him to turn in that direction until he took a head shot.

      Its a 70/30 leaning towards execution in my book. Burden of proof is on the state since the dead guy cant defend himself. We shall see.

  21. avatar Arkansas kurt says:

    Just a tidbit and a bit off topic. There is one fact about this whole situation that makes all the actions make sense. whichever side you are on(government or militia). The men whom these men decided to make a protest about were convicted of a federal felony. these men made a plea agreement with the federal government. A part of their plea agreement was that if they ever sold their land, the they would have to sell it to the BLM. Make your own judgements, but that sounds like federal extortion and these patriots (whom have been much ridiculed) were more in the right than many of you (us) would care to believe. .02 cents from an uneducated small town arkansan.

    1. avatar Don says:

      This and so much more… look up the speech by Greg Walden the congressman who represents that area and you will get a pretty decent honest evaluation of several decades of Federal abuse to the point of giving congress and the citizens the finger. If you don’t think this is all wrong and we are thoroughly screwed, I pity you when they stop bothering to try and justify what they’re going to do to anyone that gets in the way of the machine. Gonna be a hell of a rude awakening.

      1. avatar Xanderbach says:

        I agree- The arrests and convictions? Wrong. The protest? Correct. The police actions here? Looked justified, I have to say. All in all, bad all around, but better to be worked over in the courts than the field.

  22. avatar Kevin says:

    What I find amazing, from I can see in the blurry video, is it seems like he is shot by the cop at the left of the screen. Which would mean that there were about 5 or more cops in the shooters background.

    1. avatar Don says:

      Good point… one cop probably fired at the perp, missed but sent it whizzing by the other cop’s ear so they both opened fire… LaVoy was just caught in a crossfire.

      Happened in Seattle a while back, two uniforms spotted two guys matching the description of the perps they were looking for getting out of a car with guns drawn. There was a ten or fifteen minute exchange of gunfire (with nobody hit of course, they can’t shoot) until the two plainclothes detectives in an unmarked were able to get dispatch to call the heroes in blue off. Idjits.

  23. avatar Scott says:

    From what I’ve seen here, it appears to be entirely justified.

  24. avatar smiffery says:

    It’s difficult to tell, but it looks like there is a bullet hole in the windshield. It could be possible he was hit before he veered off the road. That could be why his hands went down, placing them on his wound, he looked panicked. If he was going to draw on the officers why draw in the open and not before he got out of the truck? If he was already hit that might have convinced him to reach for a weapon. Just another possibility. Everyone has their interpretation and most people’s minds are already made up.

    1. avatar Mecha75 says:

      I am assuming you are referring to the white blotch seen on the windshield. If you watch the longer vid, you will see it is there during the first stop. I am not sure what that is. But in the longer vid, I do not see it at all until they stop at the first stop. they were in a slow crawl and then the blob was there and they immediately stopped. It could be the poor quality of the video that obscured whatever that white blob is to begin with, or it could be evidence of the gun shot that Victoria Sharp said occurred at the first stop.

      1. avatar smiffery says:

        Yep the white blob. Probably just the steering wheel.

        1. avatar Mecha75 says:

          Its squarish and on the dashboard. The squarish look might be the pixelation of the closeup of the video though.

  25. avatar Don says:

    It would be interesting if we all had our location listed with these comments, East versus West, rural versus city, etc. I’m actually pretty surprised by the attitudes in some cases so supportive of the storm troopers. I guess that makes me one of those extremists, eh?

    1. avatar Dale Smith says:

      Truth. It’s pretty disheartening. There will come a time when sitting on the fence will put them on the other side of it. It’ll be a sad day. And yes. Big difference between rural/western mindset and city/eastern mindset.

    2. avatar Robert says:

      Small town born and raised, 7th generation Oregonian here, (though I currently live in Portland because of…life) and own property in eastern Oregon. These Bundy asshats can GTFO (and take their Idaho 3% all-talk-no-action bitches with ’em). You make threats against the cops, make statements about not getting taken alive, run from the cops, exit a vehicle and reach for your waistband… Boom.

      Those the kind of demographics you’re looking for Don? 🙂

    3. avatar Muih says:

      Again, this dude wrote a novel about ranchers setting up their own courts and hanging local officials, getting in gun battles with federal agents and having his cowboys go to war with the feds, who then occupied a federal facility while armed, and repeatedly said on camera that he would resist arrest with force and was ready and willing to die before he’d go to prison, and finally tried to run a police blockade. These also weren’t “Storm Troopers”, they weren’t big bad scary feds, it was Oregon State Police that took the shot (at least as far as I’ve read), people that *live* out there.

      Since we’re asking about where people are from to differentiate and divide based on locale, I’m an Oregonian. I’m also not someone who’s not terribly supportive of police in shootings, but this dude was looking for this result, this was how he wanted to go out. I wish it had gone differently, I don’t enjoy seeing people get shot, but Finicum was looking for martyrdom and got it.

      1. avatar James69 says:

        Oh, they were State Troopers, not Storm Troopers….same thing. The ones around here make Marines look like schoolgirls. No offence to Marines or schoolgirls intended.

        1. avatar Xanderbach says:

          Well, I’m in rural AZ, and I think it was a justified (thought sad) shooting. When a properly heinous incident happens, I’ll be in the streets with everyone else. This wasn’t it.

    4. avatar Rooster says:

      You can agree with their cause and their “occupation” (more like a sit in really) while also understanding this was almost certainly a justified shooting. A guy who is always armed who promises he will not be taken alive flees police, attempts to evade a road block, runs out of his car while reaching into his coats/pants and people are shouting how “he was a patriot he dindu nuffin!”, give me a break.

  26. avatar Mike says:

    Regarding the truck almost hitting an officer… It looks to me like the officer thought the truck was going to hit the vehicle he was hiding behind so he jumped to the side which put him in the path of the truck when it veered at the last second.

    I doubt any dash cams were pointed in the right direction to catch the shooting, but hopefully they would provide useful audio and there were body cams present to clear up the many remaining questions.

    1. avatar James69 says:

      Oh, he jumped in front of the vehicle on purpose……… “That truck was gonna kill Johnny, we had to stop it.”

  27. avatar Dale Smith says:

    Some important FACTS:
    1. They were fired upon, unprovoked, at the first stop, which is in the full FBI video. What would you do if you pulled over for a traffic stop and the cop started shooting at you, unprovoked? Sit there?

    2. The FBI lied to us about three aspects of this stop. 1. They stated that he charged officers when he exited the truck. 2. They stated that he never had his hands up. 3. They stated that they only fired three rounds during the stop. All three of those statements are indisputable lies, as evidenced by the video. So we’re supposed to believe their fourth statement, that he was pulling a gun? While it appears he may have done so in the video, or possibly clutched his stomach from being shot, am I inclined to believe someone that has lied about 3/4 of the things they just told me? HELL NO

    3. They had MULTIPLE opportunities to arrest these people when they were at events, coming and going to vehicles, going into town to eat, or going home to visit family. They chose a deserted road. With no witnesses.

    4. They UNLOADED on the truck, after shooting Finicum, despite having no indication that it needed to happen. The ONLY thing that saved the other people that were crammed in the floorboard of the truck was the snow bank that they plowed into, as it stopped all of the rounds that were meant to kill them. The only rounds to enter the truck were the ones that cleared the snow bank, which the survivors were thankfully below.

    This was an attempted assassination by our government, under the guise of folks resisting arrest. They DO NOT want them having their day in court and being able to speak out.

    1. avatar Ross B. says:

      There were officers in the direction Lavoy initially ran, so maybe it felt like “charging”. Seems like a stretch, but it was the other driver repeating secondhand accounts that said “charging”.

      I understood the statement about his hands up is that he didn’t have his hands up when he was shot. If he was shot only when he reached into his clothing, then the statement is factual.

      The police say that they threw flash bangs and fired sponge pepper spray rounds at the truck to disorient anyone still inside. Which means that the statement that they only fired three bullets at Finnicum during the stop, and the video along with the account of the girl that she heard the truck get hit dozens or “a hundred and twenty” times could all be true.

      You see assassination, I see suicide by cop during an arrest where the cops are trying not to kill anyone (and mostly succeeded). Eight of the leaders are now going through due process, with attorneys and whatever legal resources they can bring to the table. If the government wanted to kill everyone, they did a piss-poor job of it.

      1. avatar Anonymous says:

        If they only fired pepper spray and flash bang grenades please explain Ryan Bundy’s bullet hole he obtained. He was in the vehicle the whole time.

        1. avatar Mecha75 says:

          Someone said he wasn’t shot, but was cut by a piece of shrapnel.

    2. avatar Mecha75 says:

      Reply to #1. I saw no shot at the first stop. The closest that i see to a possible gunshot is that a white blotch appears on the windshield or dash right before the vehicle makes a complete stop. I do not know if it was just because of digital zoom pixelation that it wasnt visible while the vehicle was moving or if it is evidence of a shot hitting the windshield. Even still they sat there for some time before taking off slowly.

  28. avatar anaxis says:

    I keep reading about the restraint shown by the feds; yet even two minutes after Finnicum went down and several flash-bangs, the cops continued to pump rounds into the passenger side of that truck.

    I can’t say for sure whether LaVoy’s hands dropped because he was going for his piece (under a fully zipped-up jacket?), or due to a flinch reaction resulting from impacting rounds, but I also thought about how hard it would be to go as he did through deep snow with hands held high and not stumble. FWIW, it looked to me like he was more confused than anything, and possibly trying to draw fire away from the truck because he thought they were going to light him up regardless.

    We’ll likely never know what happened for sure, but the cops were definitely out for blood once they had to start chasing him and his nearly plowing into the roadblock at the end. They tend to take that kind or thing pretty personally (“how dare they run from us”), and it amps them up every time…. in addition to their heads being full of briefings about how dangerous, heavily armed, and willing to die these guys were. I think that there was actually very little Finnicum could’ve done to not be shot.

    1. avatar Mecha75 says:

      We should see clear pictures of the truck. But what those “shots” looked like was pepper balls. It appears to be much too powdery smoke for it to be bullet shots. And it was gray smoke so it wasnt snow.

    2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      ‘I think that there was actually very little Finnicum could’ve done to not be shot.’

      Sadly, this is most likely true. From the first, the “protest” was badly handled. Almost immediately, Bundy lost control of the the narrative because he was never able to make a coherent statement about just what he was protesting. Once that happened, everything went downhill really fast. A very sad thing, really.

  29. avatar Don says:

    Another Don here,

    Did anyone notice it looks like they ran over a man as they crashed the truck into the snow bank?

    -D

  30. avatar Out_Fang_Thief says:

    WTF? Did they just head-shot this guy? Is that why nobody is checking to see if he’s alive,…because they already know that they killed him? Why did it take so long to get the other passengers to exit the vehicle? And who the fuck was flying that helicopter? Why was it circling and constantly putting trees between its camera and the white truck? If it was there as support, how can it effectively support officers on the ground if it loses sight of the truck and/or its occupants?

    1. avatar Ross B. says:

      They didn’t approach Finnicum because there were still people in the truck who may have been armed (FBI says there were two .223 semi’s (AR’s?) and a revolver found in the truck). They tossed the flash bangs and shot OC at the truck to disorient the occupants, presumably part of convincing them to surrender instead of escalating further.

      The “helicopter” appears to be an Oregon state Cessna with surveillance gear. So it has to orbit the site and can’t hover. Within it’s limitations, the pilot and camera operator appear to have been doing a pretty good job of keeping the scene in the view of the camera.

      1. avatar Anonymous says:

        They tossed the flash bangs and shot OC at the truck to disorient the occupants, presumably part of convincing them to surrender instead of escalating further.

        Lol! Nothing says de-escalation like flash bang grenades!

        1. avatar Mecha75 says:

          Valid tactic. They had atleast 2 officers completely exposed. The flash bangs and or concussion grenades are disorientating and what appears to be pepper balls would be to encourage surrender.

        2. avatar Hannibal says:

          De-escalation? That’s the BLM’s BS demand. Not LE’s job, and it shouldn’t be expected.

          Now, whether they should have been there in the first place is a different story…

        3. avatar fuque says:

          Hey, don’t be knocking the flash bang.. it kept that baby in his crib didnt it, and cops made it home alive at the end of the day didnt they?…

  31. avatar Roy says:

    Congrats to Lavoy Finicum on getting his dying wish of dying and doing so without killing anybody else.

    It seems pretty dumb though considering he was only facing about 5 years in jail. He traded 5 years of prison and 20-30 more good years with his family for suicide by cop.

    1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

      Maybe it was a matter of honor in his eyes…

      Modern Westerners, at least most, have difficulty excepting the concept of dying an early death to stay one’s honor. Most would rather live longer and swallow one’s pride. If he felt this was a matter of honor, then maybe, in his mind, his life was worth the cost.

      Hell, it wasn’t that long ago in this country you could legally duel to the death over honor.

      Some folks still feel that dying for what is considered honorable is a noble death; I count myself among them. And since we all die, why not die doing something you feel holds honor, instead of 40 yrs later old and feeble in a bed somewhere.

      Now, I cannot stay whether this man died honorably, or not, because it’s really not up to us, history and future generations will determine it, at least the way I see.

      1. avatar fuque says:

        This nation was formed and built by men with honor…founding fathers didnt have to lay it all on the line, they could have easily rested on their laurels and wealth, and just pacified the British, but instead chose to risk it all, and lose it all, so that WE would have a shot at freedom and Liberty and self governing.. I have high respect for men of honor and conviction, I may not agree with their tactics.. But it doesnt take away from their beliefs.

  32. avatar Sanchanim says:

    There is a longer video out there, but it is inconclusive at best.
    There is no audio. He clearly gets out with his hands up.
    We also see him run to the side of the road instead of making a straight shot into the road block. NOTE: the one LEO who dives in front of the vehicle. “Stupid move?”
    So he is out of the vehicle. Hands are up.
    Here are some options of what happened.
    1. He stumbles in the knee deep snow and drops his arms.
    2. LEO asks him to lift his jacket to prove he is unarmed.
    3. He is reaching for a gun. ???? More on that later.
    4. He gets shot and reaches for the wound. Notice he puts his hands back up.
    LaVoy has always carried in a holster. People tend to be habitual. If you carried almost everyday with a holster, why all of a sudden toss a gun in your pocket?
    They had a fixed wing aircraft in the air, road block in place, and the cop who emerged from behind the tree, where did he come from?

    1. avatar JJ says:

      Your erecting strawman arguments does no help.
      It has no audio because it is a fixed wing surveillance aircraft at a fairly long distance loiter.

      As far as his driving around the road block he does so to avoid the TIRE SPIKES. he tried to go around the roadblock and tire spikes and high centered the truck in the snow.

      And who the fk cares how he often carried in a holster? He did in fact have a 9mm semi-auto in his left hand inside pocket.

      This guy repeatedly articulated threats he would use deadly force against law enforcement. he was observed armed and was armed. He dropped his hands and reached and was shot. The other three occupants of the vehicle did reach, and kept heir hands up and lived. If Law enforcement had wanted to kill them absent a threat those other three would be dead as well

      1. avatar Anonymous says:

        i definitely agree with Sanch. He puts his hands back up. Please explain why he would do this. There are many reasons as to why he would drop his hands and I can agree if he was digging around under his coat. But why keep shooting if he put his hands back up?

      2. avatar Steve says:

        “It has no audio because it is a fixed wing surveillance aircraft at a fairly long distance loiter.”

        You’re an imbecile if you think a planned operation with the FBI has only one long distance camera and no audio whatsoever around the encounter.

        1. avatar Chrispy says:

          I didn’t see at all where he said that in his comment. However, seeing as how this is the only current video evidence available for public consumption that the encounter ever even happened, I’d say his comments were spot on.

  33. I genuinely feel sorry for this man. He died cold scared and confused… Perhaps unable to comprehend the events happening to him, how the gun in his possession did not protect him from the consequences of the actions,media pronouncements and reputation he had garnered up until the point of his death. Perhaps trying to hold on his faith that strength of his belief would keep him alive, while attempting to maintain some dignity by not defecating on himself before shuffling his mortal coil. It’s a sad and horrible way to go. But at least he will be remembered. Derided by miscreants of course, but remembered as a hero, a paragon whose example is to emulated by what few right thinking Americans left in this country.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      Stopping might have helped.

      1. avatar JNZ says:

        Not trying to take over a gov owned visitor’s center would be a good idea too. Not driving away from police at all. Not getting out of the car / Not walking away from the car.

  34. avatar ropingdown says:

    I find the whole “this is our land” bit somewhat mysterious. I’m very familiar with the intermountain west, though I live in the east. We’re quite used to the idea that if the Government owns your building or land, you don’t. Leases are temporary, though the terms have been good in most of the west for most of the last century.

    I have a different take on the “unfairness” of the government owning 50% of the western lands: If the government had not staked such claims then (as in one part of Wyoming) a relative handful of east coast and British investors would have owned almost the entire ranch-land west. The government in fact aided the small rancher and farmer, in effect assuring that their lease terms were proportionate and the land inalienable.

    I’m hoping we don’t see an outbreak of armed militia types setting up in Brooklyn or Trenton whenever the government sells off a building or piece of land thus necessitating that the people who worked there have to find a new place/way of making a living.

    The great-grandfather Bundy served a mail route down from Utah into Nevada, establishing five families (wives and children) at towns along the way. In retrospect he should have been saving his money and staking claims….and skipping the exhausting labor required to keep five families going.

    [And do I ever get the autofill for ‘name’ back?]

  35. avatar Vvinny51 says:

    The whole situation just weird. Satellite images obviously, yet you got to wonder, as a side note, was there a pop prior to him reaching in in his pants. Or, did someone goat him in to reaching? “You better draw, because your about to die,” type deal. Either way, the poor guy has obviously swallowed the BS whole, and it cost him his life. You “Patriots” better start learning the difference between a cause and a setup, or they will systematically eliminate you.

  36. avatar Steve says:

    For the visually impaired and those that made up their minds before the release of the video: The SAME exact moment he “reaches” to his side, an officer at the barricade is seen stumbling away shortly after charging forward. Anyone with 2 brain cells would connect this to him seeking cover after a gunshot…. a gunshot that didn’t come from the deceased or his passenger, and a gunshot that he could very well be reaching for due to pain.

    Reasonable doubt most assuredly exists.

  37. avatar Ironbear says:

    First off, I’ll put on my Conspiracy Theorist Hat to say: well, of course the FBI would release video that supports their intended narrative.

    Conspiracy Hat off, I’ve watched this video several times now, and I still can’t clearly make out enough details to be sure of all of the events.

    I really, really want to see dashcam and officer body cam video released showing a more up close view of exactly what Finicum and the various officers were doing.

  38. avatar Hannibal says:

    Hmm.

    Just before he starts reaching (i.e. when his hands are still raised, no threat unless he has a gun in hand) watch the trooper on the bottom right that came running from the roadblock. Look at the troopers gun. It sorta looks like he fires a couple of times BEFORE the suspect reaches down. Hard to tell with the video quality…

  39. avatar neiowa says:

    Is the FBI in the highway patrol business? And why on Jan28? Because the wacko libtard Oregon governor called Obumer?

    Did the FBI/cops have a warrant to establish an AMBUSH? That was not a road block or traffic stop. Today do police routinely set multiple cars at a chokepoint on a blind curve? The driver avoids plowing thru it which likely would have injured multiple idiots. Left side of the image a jackwagon charging with a long gun. Looks to me like he is the one that executes. Thuggery.

  40. avatar pwrserge says:

    This portion is irrelevant. What prompted the incident was the initial stop where the only eye witness claims that the cops fired and caused them to run. Interesting how the video cuts in right AFTER that portion.

    1. avatar Mecha75 says:

      The FBI released the full version which starts before the first stop. At 1:09 of that video a white splotch on the windshield or dashboard appears. It may have always been there and not visible until over a minute into the video or it may have been the result of a gunshot. we need to see a clear picture of that area to know what it is. It wasn’t dislodged when they hit the snow and if it was an item, one would expect it to have been.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        I was talking about the full FBI video. If they fired and caused him to run, everything afterwards is irrelevant. It’s still felony murder.

  41. avatar Charlie says:

    A little help here: it looks to me like the brake lights were on when the truck went off road to driver’s left. Can anyone else confirm or deny? To me, that’s the first crux of many in this story. I don’t know about you, but when I try to plow through a snow bank I generally do it with my foot on the accelerator and not the brake.

  42. avatar Shawn says:

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Yeah, don’t put up a fuss and get in the damn cattle car.

      1. avatar fuque says:

        …………^ this^…..

      2. avatar Ebby123 says:

        When you get run over by the cattle car because you tried to attack it and failed – yes, you played a stupid game, and were awarded your stupid prize.

        Running a road block is not a harmless, innocent act. He decided to solve his greivances in the street, and lost.

        Dundu nuffin? Really? That’s going to be our response to a guy charging police with his car?
        We’re better than that.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          We have no video of the first stop. If the cops had already fired at you when you had your hands out the window (as the ONLY eye witness has claimed), then yes, charging them with your car is damn appropriate.

          We are seeing a tiny edited portion of the events designed to put the cops in the best possible light. The fact that it STILL does not completely clear anybody is rather telling.

        2. avatar Mecha75 says:

          “We have no video of the first stop”

          Yes we do have the full video which includes the first stop.

  43. avatar MAF says:

    Guy was flying down a snowy road towards a police roadblock. Guy almost rammed the roadblock, then jumped out of his truck. Guy was known to be armed, and was wanted for arrest.

    If he had stayed in his truck instead, he would have stayed alive. If he would have slowed his ass down and stopped in the road, he would have stayed alive.

    Without more details about what happened on the ground, I’m inclined towards justified shoot.

    1. avatar Ebby123 says:

      Agreed.
      The events leading up to this event are clearly unjust and shady, but this scenario makes perfect sense.

      Don’t charge men with guns with a lethal force weapon (your car).
      Don’t go running around in the snow making sudden movements while men are pointing guns at you (presumable) screaming at you to not move.

      I appreciate feeling powerless in the face of a vindictive government prosecution, but this isn’t how problems are to be solved.

  44. avatar Kap says:

    A driver has stopped his car after almost running a person over which is perceived to be attempted intentional homicide
    at this point the Federal Baby Incinerators are aching to pull the trigger! of course in fear of their Life, why was he allowed to expire on the ground without Medical Attention? its called getting even for Making Reid and cronies look bad because the BLM couldn’t steal Bundies Land with phony charges and then broker a deal with Reid’s Son as a middle man set too make big bucks, all done under color of law, just like Waco, Ruby Ridge and others, shouldn’t go after little people!

  45. avatar John Howard says:

    The roadblock is set around a curve, not in sight until the driver is into the turn. Standard response for most is to hit breaks and avoid collision with blocking vehicles given the conditions at the time there is no aggressive behavior. I see a poorly executed road block period.

    No joy to the argument he was being aggressive, he was clearly startled when the sniper came out of the woods behind him his response is natural, if he is right handed then he wasn’t drawing a weapon. At best serious lapse of discipline by the officers.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      To me, the first time he dropped his arms looks like a response to getting shot. That means that the first shots fired were when the suspect had his hands up.

      Hands up, don’t shoot.

  46. avatar adverse says:

    I’ll wait for the movie.

  47. avatar pres stone says:

    we all know this but since its a 2A supporter somehow you have all chosen to forget this rule: FOLLOW THE POLICES INSTRUCTIONS. if you don’t you will be fired upon. If they are wrong YOU CAN SUE THEM LATER AND WIN, but not if you are DEAD.
    You are not going to beat the police in a situation like this.
    He was, WAS, doing the right thing by immediately putting his hands up, HAD HE KEPT DOING THAT, it is highly probable that he would still be alive. NONE OF YOU know when shots were actually fired so you don’t know if he was fired at before or after his hands went down, YOU DON’T KNOW.
    Forming opinions off conjecture and emotional response is exactly what we fault the anti-gunners for, so PLEASE wait until ALL the FACTS are on the table.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      To me, it looked like he’s clutching a gunshot wound. Having audio would make a huge difference here. I agree that there is more info needed, but this video alone is not enough to clear the cops.

    2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      “FOLLOW THE POLICES INSTRUCTIONS. if you don’t you will be fired upon.”

      Uh. No.

      You cannot, legally or morally, be fired upon for not following police instructions. And, more to the point, police are not trained to do this. (At least they weren’t less than 20 years ago).

      The police have essentially the same standard of using deadly force as the rest of us: imminent threat of death or severe bodily injury.

      The only major difference is that police put themselves into situations where that might occur, whereas most non-police citizens increase criminal and moral liability by doing so.

      But, except for that caveat, the police cannot, nor should it ever be acceptable for them to, shoot someone merely for the act of “disobedience.”

      Think about what you are saying, and what you are acquiescing with your suggestion.

    3. avatar Mecha75 says:

      Here is the thing.. Was he reaching for a weapon during a high stress situation on a side that he was shown to not usually carry on? or was he shot and by virtue of his pain reflex, dropped his hands to where he was shot. He then immediately put them up again. Then put them back down and held them there prior to getting what we know was the kill shot (presumably to the head).

      I do concede that the new official version (since the video clearly shows the old versions of a shootout and him charging were completely false) of him going for a 9mm semiauto pistol in his left coat pocket is plausible and may have occurred (even if I find it unlikely, being a gun owner who carrier nearly everywhere). Without further evidence I cannot dismiss and I currently find it far more likely that he was shot first and was reacting to the pain. The way I currently see it is this way.

      @ around 1 minute in to the full vid they stopped
      @ 1:09 a gunshot hit the windshield as evidence by the appearance of a white blotch ( I do not know the angle of where it came from) Finicum may have been shot at this time (or later in the vid)
      @ some point Payne jumped out (this was obscured by foliage but you clearly see he was apprehended)
      then they start running (I could not make out any further gunshots after 1:09)
      They approach the barricade and he misses the spike strip.
      FBI agent afraid this vehicle will be hit jumps out of the way. But into the path of Finicum’s truck
      He barely dives back and gets plowed over with snow as Finicum passed further into the snow bank.
      immediately Finicum jumps out with his hands up and starts walking parallel to the road in the snow (not towards any LEOs and clearly not charging them)
      Finicum reaches down to his left side due to pain and the LEOs yelled at him to get his hands up or they will shoot again
      He obeys, but the pain in his side increases as his brain begins to register and process it better.
      So he reaches down again because of the pain reflex is to great for him.
      He holds both hands on the gunshot wound for a second and is summarily shot in the face.

      The LEOs claim he was going for a gun only once this video was published, why did they not say that from the beginning?

  48. avatar JR_in_NC says:

    One thing is perfectly clear from this article and the subsequent commentary:

    If anyone still believes eyewitness reports and testimony is any way reliable, here’s your proof that it is not.

    There are almost as many interpretations of the same video data as their are people commenting on it.

    And, that’s video, after the fact, with 20/20 hindsight of at least some of the particulars…no adrenaline, no tunnel vision, no “oh sh1t, I’m close to dying” fight/flight response…

    Just a number of folks sitting safely (presumably) at home/work watchin’ a video on the Internet, and what is “seen” is all over the map. That’s not even getting to INTERPRETATION of what it “means…” just the basic input is registered differently.

    There’s a lesson there…an important one.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Yeah, don’t fire unless fired upon. Those were the rules of engagement for patrols in Iraq, so why are cops held to a lower standard. The volunteer for this. I don’t give a damn about “officer safety”, if you want to be “safe” get a different job.

      1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

        That’s about as much of a misinterpretation of my point as could possibly be made.

        I was making a meta-comment about the commentary following viewing video evidence in general, not saying anything about this video or this case.

        Everyone screams about “We should have video” or “I’ll wait ’til the video is out,” yet that does not seem to really matter all that much (at least some of the time). What is “seen” by different people on any given video is very inconsistent.

  49. avatar robert jones says:

    oh well someday they’ll put his head picture inside a toilet seat on some bar room wall.

  50. avatar Cknarf says:

    I don’t care how you feel about it, if people with guns on you say put your hands up, you should probably do just that. Shoulda kept his hands up, instead of doing that goofy fuckin’ dance.

    “Cops and rules of engagement blah!”

    If someone more or less charged you with a vehicle, got out, and was dicking around with their hands anywhere but up, wouldn’t you likely shoot them too? I probably would. And the idea of cops having to wait until fired at to defend themselves is beyond silly.

    “[your name], hold your fire! He has to shoot you first!”

    Sounds silly, doesn’t it?

  51. avatar Dennis says:

    If you pause the vid the moment he goes down you can see what appears to be a handgun in his left hand… 0:24

  52. avatar Matt says:

    Salient points and questions that I don’t want to be missed; perhaps someone has an answer.

    1 – It appears he had the break lights on the whole way up the hill approaching the road block. You can see the difference between breaking and not breaking light brightness between the 9min and 9min10sec marks of the whole video. He also appears to be breaking or at least have his foot on the break the whole time he is driving around the roadblock/pulling to the side of it.
    2 – The camera eventually shows what looks like shots to the windshield as was previously claimed. It’s clear they come after the truck had stopped not before like I’ve previously read.
    3 – It’s clear the officer runs towards the truck after it begins to go around the roadblock. Was he trying to avoid being hit if the roadblock was rammed or was he leaping out in front of a moving vehicle for some unknown reason, perhaps believing the truck would come to a stop sooner?
    4 – About 14 seconds elapsed between the time he exited the truck and he was shot. Why did the officer wait so long to shoot if he was a threat that entire time? Perhaps the officer near the pavement may have been worried about shooting the officer behind him and thus waited for him to get in position to take the shot?
    5 – He fiddles with his jacket for about 5-6 seconds before being shot.
    6 – What are the flares/pyrotechnics/fireworks going off near the end of the first video? What relevance will that have? Are they shooting/throwing flash bangs into/around the truck?
    7 – Is there shooting into or out of the truck going on after he is shot?
    8 – Was there shooting before the truck came to a stop?
    9 – Why did he pull off the road to begin with? Why not just stop in the road?

    I think points 4 & 5 show some restraint, it’s pretty clear they didn’t just light him up the moment he got out of the truck and he had ample opportunity to do something hostile or otherwise. Without audio its harder to say what sort of intentions he was making clear or what the officers were shouting at him.

    It will be interesting what other video/audio evidence can do to prove either one of these possibilities or another true.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      You claim “fiddling with jacket” others see “clutching at bullet wounds”… Without audio or an autopsy report, there’s no way to tell either way.

      1. avatar Matt says:

        My point exactly, we don’t actually know what he is doing but we can clearly see that he is putting his hands in/around his jacket & pockets. The order of events is going to be what really matters. Without it a compelling argument can be made for either position based on the video alone. The cops went overboard and killed a guy in cold blood or the cops reacted to what they perceived as a legitimate threat. Audio and autopsy/other forensic evidence may help establish that order of events.

  53. avatar JNZ says:

    “nor was their aid giving”

    lol, aside from all the other wildly speculative claims… This one in particular shows you know nothing about police procedures.

  54. avatar Michael says:

    The roadblock was setup on a left curve of a 65mph u.s highway. There is a spike-strip in the road just before the roadblock. Per the report, LaVoy dodged said spike strip. The brake lights of LaVoy’s vehicle can be seen coming on as he rounds the corner. It is very clear that he did not have enough distance to stop his vehicle before colliding with the roadblock, so he elected to steer his truck to the left and into the snow bank. The officer/agent that dove in front of LaVoy’s truck clearly just “chose wrong”, and assumed that LaVoy would ram the roadblock instead of choosing to avoid a collision by going into a snow bank.

    LaVoy exits with hands up.

    He suddenly reaches down toward his waistline, then hands up again, then reaches again, then sort of attempts to put his hands up, then reaches again as he turns toward the officer/agent that was behind him coming from the tree line. That officer then seems to fire the shot that killed LaVoy.

    If he was wanting to try and shoot it out with the Feds, then I do not believe he would have exited with his hands up and empty while only carrying a 9mm pistol in his pocket. Also, if he was wanting to shoot it out with Feds/officers, then I think that he would have rammed the roadblock. His actions are not consistent with being in a mindset of wanting to simply kill officers/agents.

    If he was wanting to have a suicide by cop, but first ensuring the safety of his passengers by getting away from them, then that could explain his actions. Exited with hands up, and kept them up as he put distance between himself and his passengers. Then once there is a safe distance, he reaches for his weapon. However, it does leave the question of why would he reach for his gun, but not actually get it out. He reached several times, yet never pulled it out. If a person wants suicide by cop, then actually drawing the weapon is the way to ensure that happens.

    Another scenario/comment that has been written on other websites is this: LaVoy exited with hands up, with intentions of surrendering. An officer standing to the right of LaVoy’s truck (at the roadblock vehicles) shot him in the gut/hip, causing LaVoy to drop his hands and reach for his gunshot wound, then he attempted to put his hands up again, then he was shot again, and again he reached for where he’d been shot. Finally, he turns to flee and the officer/agent behind him sees LaVoy with his hand in his coat, and he fires the lethal shot.

    There should be dashcam videos available from the roadblock vehicles that have audio. That will offer a lot of info as to what actually happened as LaVoy’s truck came around the corner and became visible to the officers/agents. If the militia had been thorough, they would have had live streaming video dashcams on all 4 directions of the vehicle.

    Regardless of which side you are on, this is sad for all involved. A man died standing up for what he thought was gov’t injustice, while another man has to live with the fact that he just took another man’s life, and left 11 kids without a father.

    Sadly, we will never put any thought nor discussion regarding the situation that led to these men deciding that they would rather give up their freedom and likely give up their life over “something” that they felt was a great injustice via the hand of their own government.

    Lost in all of this is the Hammond father & son that were sent back to prison. They are in prison on federal terrorism charges stemming from actions which the local officials had previously looked into and had deemed that those actions did not warrant any charges to be filed. There is a lot more to this story than what most have read so far. What channel do the Kardashians come on?

    1. avatar Jay Williams says:

      Nice, well-balanced summary.

  55. avatar Adam L Silverman says:

    Here’s the link to the FBI Portland Field Office’s website, which I sent over to RF last night after I covered all this in the write up for a friend’s website:
    https://www.fbi.gov/portland/press-releases/2016/remarks-by-sac-greg-bretzing-at-a-press-conference-to-address-the-ongoing-situation-at-the-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge

    It includes the transcripts of Supervisory Agent in Charge Bretzing’s prepared remarks, as well as the full, unedited video (now posted above by the OP), as well as the edited for time video they showed at last night’s press conference. Several of you all in your comments have remarked about why was Mr. Finicum reaching across his body, not to his right hip, which is where you would have expected a right handed shooter to holster their weapon (either IWB or OWB). As SAC Bretzing indicated in his remarks last night (paragraph fourteen of the transcript) law enforcement on the scene recovered a 9mm semi-automatic pistol from the left inside pocket of Mr. Finicum’s coat. Each viewer will have to decide for themselves if he was trying to cross draw his gun or was attempting to do something else.

    Law enforcement also recovered two semi-automatic rifles chambered in .223 and one .38 Special revolver from within Mr. Finicum’s truck after they deployed the flash bangs around the truck, less than lethal rounds to penetrate the windows of the truck, and the OC capsules into the truck.

    SAC Bretzing indicated last night, both in his prepared remarks and when asked, that there is other video (most likely Oregon State Police body camera footage) that will be released once the shooting investigation is complete. That investigation is being conducted by the Deschutes County Major Force Incident Team.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      So basically they will only release the evidence of them murdering a person after they cover their asses. Got it.

      1. avatar Adam L Silverman says:

        I’m going to make one attempt to seriously and politely engage with you on this: exactly what would satisfy you here that would also not be prejudicial to all parties in any prosecution and/or civil action? Here’s context: the Feds aren’t doing the investigation as this was a Joint Federal, state, and local law enforcement action overseen by the FBI. The State of Oregon isn’t doing the investigation as two of its officers are the subject of the investigation. Neither of the two counties involved, Harney and Grant, are doing the investigation as they were part of the joint law enforcement operation. Instead a county not involved, Deschutes, is doing the investigation to avoid a conflict of interest. So again: exactly who should do the investigation so that you’d be satisfied?

    2. avatar Anonymous says:

      Each viewer will have to decide for themselves if he was trying to cross draw his gun or was attempting to do something else

      Since he repeatedly put his hands down and then put them back up, I’m going to make a guess he was doing something else.

      SAC Bretzing indicated last night, both in his prepared remarks and when asked, that there is other video (most likely Oregon State Police body camera footage) that will be released once the shooting investigation is complete. That investigation is being conducted by the Deschutes County Major Force Incident Team.

      Why does the shooting investigation have to be complete before the camera footage is released? I mean… the Deschutes County Major Force Incident Team (ridiculous mouthful) is going to be seeing the same video as us right… hopefully? Why do we have to see it after they see it, if we are going to see it anyways, they are going to see it anyways, and it is the same video? Is the Deschutes County Major… etc etc going to be seeing a video that is better than 480p resolution? Do they actually… actually… record this in 480p?

      1. avatar Adam L Silverman says:

        Because it would be prejudicial for juries in both civil and criminal proceedings to release it prior to the completion of the investigation. If you, Deity forbid, should have to shoot someone in self defense and there is video, would you want that to come out before the process had run its course and increase your legal/criminal jeopardy by tainting the jury pool? Trying you in the court of public opinion? That’s why.

  56. avatar Stoopid1 says:

    So many unwise people here. The video does not provide conclusive proof to what actually happened.

    The single most important question is… When was the first bullet fired? If the cops shot him when his hands were up, then it is time to hunt down and shoot some cops… If the first shot was as he had his hands down (presumably to grab a gun) then the cops were justified.

    Need more videos.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      I’ll settle for the audio.

    2. avatar Anonymous says:

      Why didn’t the FBI give us at least a 1080p video??? Even my little point and shoot camera is 1080p. I know they aren’t recording that crap in 480p video!

  57. avatar jwm says:

    The real moral of this story is do not join any half assed militia with any connection to the Bundy’s. If this really was a .gov hit on the leadership and a cold blooded murder as some of you folks seem to think, why not just do everybody in both cars.

    If you’re dumb enough to follow where the Bundy’s lead…..Darwin Award.

  58. avatar Michael says:

    The militia takeover of the government “building” was triggered off by the court/prison situation of the Hammond men. If you haven’t read any of the official court documents surrounding that case, then you should. Scroll down to document page 3 (page 14 on your iBooks pg counter).

    http://landrights.org/or/Hammond/Hammond-v-United-States-Oregon-Petition-for-Writ-of-Certiorari-Filed-June-17-2013.pdf

    The details of the case, along with them serving 5 years in prison, is definite reason for concern for every American citizen.

    1. avatar J R in WV says:

      The Hammonds were guilty of setting fires on government owned land, twice. Once they nearly killed a group of firefighters camped out near where they set their fire. Once they did it to cover up evidence that they had been poaching game illegally.

      The minimum penalty by law for arson on federal property is 5 years in prison. The Hammonds were sent back to prison to serve the rest of the 5 year sentence they should have gotten in the first place. It was not legal for the judge to sentence them to less than 5 years.

      If they didn’t want to serve a 5 year sentence, they should have NOT poached game and sought to cover it up with an illegal fire. They should have NOT nearly killed a whole fire fighting team with their second arson.

      I have a cousin who used to work as a member of a Hot Shot fire fighting team, and could have been in that camp the Hammonds endangered. They are exactly where they belong, as are the whole group of Bundy followers. Darwin award, indeed.

  59. avatar Michael says:

    Here is the full story about the Hammond ranch. Note: I’m generally not a fan of articles that come from sites such as this, but in this case their reporting seems accurate.

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/

  60. avatar Ted Unlis says:

    This discussion is a prime example of the laughable if pathetic desperation that consumes the anarchist cop hating conspiracy theorist who for some reason are drawn to TTAG like flies on $#!T.

    For the last couple of days they’ve demanded video, but when the FBI releases video which removes any and all doubt that Finicum was a delusional idiot with a death wish, the cop hating conspiracy theorists see only what they want to see, then predictably and involuntarily pivot to the ridicuously lame ” who you gonna believe, us or your lying eyes” response.

      1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

        Righteous and justified use of deadly force by the Oregon State Police who were unfortunately obliged to grant Finicum his wish to go out in a delusional blaze of glory.

        An appropriate soundtrack to the enhanced slow motion clip of the FBI video released by The Oregonian is the viral “Dumb Ways To Die” song.

  61. avatar Orlando says:

    Every report I have read says he was shot on Tuesday.
    Tuesday is the 26th, yet all the videos say it was on the 27th which is a Wednesday.
    Can anyone explain this?

    1. avatar Adam L Silverman says:

      Yes, the surveillance video is set to ZULU/GMT. If you click over to the FBI Portland Field Office’s page with the transcript of SAC Bretzing’s prepared remarks and the videos, in between the end of the transcript and the unedited and complete video is the following statement:
      Note regarding date/time stamp in the left corner of video: Pilots use Zulu Time, also known as Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), when they fly. Zulu time is eight hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time (PST). Therefore, although this footage was taken on January 26, 2016 in Oregon, the date/time stamp on the video shows just after midnight January 27, 2016.
      Here’s the link to the transcript and videos:
      https://www.fbi.gov/portland/press-releases/2016/remarks-by-sac-greg-bretzing-at-a-press-conference-to-address-the-ongoing-situation-at-the-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge

  62. avatar Coyote says:

    Complete BS and propaganda by the government shills and bootlickers here. The audio is not released, and no very close and clear video is released. Probably being edited to cover up their murder, standard procedure. Eyewitness states they were shot at at the first stop, which gives them the right to self-defense and even if LaVoy tried to pull a gun, it was justified by the terrorist acts of the goons doing their job for Killary and her criminal cohorts who sold off the rights to uranium mining to Russian company. All the peaceful actions of protesters is lawful, as it is public land, and they have the right to bear arms. Too bad it was this good man executed instead of the murderous bastards who set this up. In the video, you can see he has his arms out until sudden movement of assassin’s gun arm. Terrorism to fire upon vehicle when stopped, terrorism to endanger lives with improper roadblock on curve, terrorist to fire anything upon vehicle and fire upon LeVoy. You zombie slaves are not deserving of a Constitution or occupying the lands of my native ancestors, as you hypocritically deride these brave men for making a stand. Leave if you are against forcefully occupying our land, because that’s what you are all doing. You were the same ones who would have called the 1776 patriots terrorists for the Tea Party and all other stands, and Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull for defending land and freedom and way of life. So being called names by you is nothing new — we know who we are and why people die fighting this evil, which is the BLM and feds and officials who have violated their oaths and falsely imprisoned the Hammonds and protesters. Call them “militants” and “terrorists” and “tinfoil hat” and all manner of slander because you don’t have the decency or courage or intelligence to care about why they are standing up. If they don’t doctor the audio and it shows they shot him with his hands up, you will come up with another excuse. Pathetic. Ruby Ridge they shot a mother with a baby. You have no respect for human life. He looked like he was on his knees probably because of being in snow. She was on the floorboard for part of it, she says, but could have looked up and seen LaVoy getting shot. You weren’t there. Mark McConnell wasn’t either. He is a shill conveniently putting out government narrative and has redacted his BS videos after being called out. We personally know these people and they are decent, hard-working ranchers. You hypocrites eat meat and cattle products while calling them names. And you yourselves live on occupied land, so give it back or shut up. They were supportive of the Dan sisters when the same thing happened to them. They tried to return the artifacts back to the Paiutes and never harmed a thing, while the artifacts were being ruined and neglected. They offered to give land back to the Paiutes and work with them. When has the government ever done that or honored any treaty? Paiutes whom we are very close with, have influences which made them take the stand they did. Nothing new. LaVoy never threatened anyone, and never asked to die. He said he would defend himself only if attacked, which is what happened here. he said he would rather die than be a slave, which is what any free person thinks. You just have all bent over so long and don’t care, or have no sense of what it is like living the ideals and free way these people and we live. You don’t care about your Constitution or treaties. They could have fired at them lethal or non-lethal like the girl said, and they admitted firing at them. So they were within their rights. Native people have been the victims of this terrorism and attitude you all have for standing up or just living and we know the abuses and deception of the government and profiteers. Police fire hundreds of shots without hitting people sometimes, and especially in this circumstance with them driving and the snow, may not have hit them. What reason to try to kill all the people in the car who had done nothing? Did they demand them to come out of car before firing on them? We have no audio yet. They wanted no witnesses, and at the least endangered them illegally. Other people showed up, so they could not just execute them like they did LaVoy. Quit lying saying all these things about him when he has never said any of this or done any of this you say. He has taken in children, and been a good father, because that is part of a government program, just like all programs. He has helped them, and has a right to that income to survive and help provide for them. You probably all have no problem with handing out everything to illegal invaders and “refugees” while ignoring veterans and native treaty rights, and complaining about what we are given which is payment of treaty for lands that you profit from while we see none of it, and live in poverty. These ranchers were also living on lands gotten because of the white settlers forcing themselves upon us and stealing ours and murdering us, and we still suffer those consequences. The federal government never had a rightful claim to any of this, and yet you are calling these men criminals for occupying land and wanting to stand for justice and this is no different than what has always gone on here? While your own government has terrorized and occupied by force always and still does? Who have they hurt? Who have they threatened? No one. They have spoken peacefully/ LaVoy never wanted to die — he said he wanted to live, but in peace, not as a slave. You twist his words like snakes. You cannot see him reach for any “gun.” You cannot see any gun. You see his arms move down after he is shot at, and as he is stumbling in snow. Did they tell him to drop his weapon and he tried and they shot him like they shot at them while parked cooperating? Until you are in the position he is in and have stood up while you are being terrorized and violated by these crooks with their nazi attitudes, you can’t say what happened or why he reacted as he did. You don’t know what he said. “Just shoot me then” is his way of challenging them to see that they are overstepping their bounds and showing bravado, showing he was being treated as a slave, it was his only way of expressing the insanity and violence that they were putting on him to say that was his last option, saying are you going to be a terrorist like this and shoot me as you have tried to do, or be men and follow the law? They showed what they are, same as they always have. He showed he was a hero, he stepped out of the truck (some say he was ordered to) — and got the attention away from the women and might have saved them. That is how ranchers in the West think. They said at the first stop to get the women out of the car to protect them. LaVoy was a man of peace and wisdom and triedto change things while he saw the corruption and injustice eat away at the way of life he loved. Why doesn’t the government return this land to the tribes to manage and stop running people off it who do not take up but a small percentage? Greed and money. They should have let them peacefully have their protest and charged the officials and judges with crimes they are committing, and quit putting peopel in jail for nothing. For back burning fires the BLM started to burn their cows up and lands up to make way for the uranium miners from Russia. Same thing they did at Pine Ridge and they came in same way and terrorized the natives who stood against it. In this case, color is not important because these settlers have lived on this land and been peaceful, and they are being imprisoned for what the BLM did illegally and them trying to just live. the feds are trying to take that land by force, that’s all this is about. They have stood up, and you call them terrorists and pick apart everything they did, when you can’t even see clearly what really happened or hear the audio. Shows you how stupid you really are and why you can’t stop fighting long enough to improve the situation. You would rather sacrifice even innocent people who are fighting for justice than listen to them and help them. It’s too bad someone good-hearted like this was murdered when he had done nothing to even hurt anyone and had done a lot of good. The rest of you who support police murdering people and all this tyrannical criminal behavior are the ones who should be gone.

    1. avatar int19h says:

      >> even if LaVoy tried to pull a gun, it was justified by the terrorist acts of the goons doing their job for Killary and her criminal cohorts who sold off the rights to uranium mining to Russian company.

      So basically “we didn’t shoot first, but even if we did, so what?”

  63. avatar Coyote says:

    There are typos in above comment, but I can’t correct them. LaVoy supported in his statements returning the land to the sovereign indigenous nations and having them be out from under federal control, and the fact that other people were wanting to hear them speak and they had the support of the other sheriff is a threat. They did not want them getting in the way of their selling off of the rights to uranium and other interests, and their illegal seizure of land which is not theirs to begin with. That’s why they did this. Why would they shoot at them when they were stopped at the first stop even when they had their hands out of the windows co-operating, and why would they fire at their car illegally trying to kill them, to stop them from getting to the other town out of their jurisdiction? Why would they come running up to him as soon as he got out of the car and was not even walking in their direction or “charging” anyone, and had his hands up, if he was a big threat? They came right up to him instead of staying back away as they are required to do and demanding he drop his weapon if he had one and get on the ground? Why was there a thug in the trees if this wasn’t set up, and what was that long weapon he had and why did he have it, and why didn’t they fire non-;ethal bullets which they are claiming they were firing before? They ADMITTED firing upon the car at the first stop. Once they did that, they were attempted murderers and LaVoy had the right to shoot back in self-defense, and yet no one did. They have to show everyone that they will execute you if you resist. We have been occupied for 500 years, and you are all acting like this is a big crime to go out to a deserted building no one is using in the winter and which is public lands. Umm…you stole those lands and are occupying them, so that makes you all terrorists, so either leave or shut up!

  64. avatar JJVP says:

    Great review by a cop of the shooting. In his opinion, and I agree, the shooting was NOT jusrified.

    https://youtu.be/HvJwWKU-3GU

  65. avatar Irvin Willimson says:

    Why Haven’t we seen the Oregon State troopers dash cam clip that was following the vehicle. Or the Police pickup pointing toward the on coming vehicle. A good reporter would ask those questions. Body cams on all law enforcement that goes into a internal investigation vault. I don’t just take the word of someone with a badge and a gun or their buddies involved. I support law enforcement but I demand real accountability by the people.

  66. avatar Peter says:

    Now that they’ve released the side by side videos that include the synced in-truck cell phone video it seems to shed some light on many of the assumptions made in the comments on these videos. It would be nice to see some feedback from law enforcement or anyone with tactical experience based on the new information.

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