Chris Christie: Wrongly On the Terrorist Watch List? Get Yourself Off. And Good Luck With That.

We’ve said it before, and we’ll say it again — Chris Christie is no friend to gun owners. Or civil liberties in general, apparently. New Jersey’s XL executive (who’s also a former federal prosecutor) sat down with the Des Moines Register’s editorial board to make the case that he’s commander in chief material. Case in point: his signature on a bill banning Garden Staters who find themselves on the federal terrorist watch list from exercising their Second Amendment rights. He acknowledges being challenged by someone who’d been erroneously included on the list and offered that the way to remedy the civil rights violation of RKBA suspension is to “get off the terrorist watch list.” . . .

What didn’t we think of that?

Only one problem. In almost the next breath acknowledges the Kafkaesque difficulty in accomplishing that.

From what I understand from talking to people who have been on (the watch list) it is a very, very difficult thing to work your way off it. I think there should be a much easier way for you to challenge if your turn out to be on the terrorist watch list and you can demonstrably prove you’re not a terrorist.

Yes, there should. But right now, good luck with that.

To distill Christie’s position, he’s OK with abrogating an enumerated constitutional right even though he’s well aware that, in the case of the watch list, a conspicuous lack of due process prevents those unlucky enough to be mistakenly ensnared from doing anything about it. He acknowledges the problem, but doesn’t really give a damn about the “rare exceptions.” Hail to the chief!

[h/t DrVino]

comments

  1. avatar Dave says:

    Don’t worry. He’s way down in the polls. He won’t be nominated.

    1. avatar Ben says:

      So basically he wants to deny people’s rights based on mere suspicion.

      That watch list is outrageously unconstitutional. And yes I choose freedom over safety.

      1. avatar Anon says:

        Exactly. Cheezburger the Totalitarian wants the precedent of presumed guilt. I don’t need to prove I’m innocent, you need to prove I’m guilty. And to a jury of my peers, no less.

      2. avatar BDub says:

        He says as much, “…if you can demonstrably prove you are not a terrorist…”

        Well shit then, finding terrorists is going to be easy. Just put everybody on the watch and no-fly lists, and sit back and wait for all the non-terrorists to filter their way off of it (the ones that can, anyways), then arrest everybody left on it after a deadline. BOOM! Problem solved.

        All this time I have spent defending civil-rights and freedom, I was just getting in the way of solving our terrorist problem. Well, I’m glad we’ve cleared all this up.

        /sarc

    2. avatar foo dog says:

      Thank god Christie is in the low single digits. He might do better in New Hampshire, but I doubt he will survive the southern states primaries.

    3. avatar Paul says:

      So was McCain at this time in that election. Best to be as fully aware of all candidates as possible.

  2. avatar Pantera Vazquez says:

    Thankfully, Christie’s chances of being elected to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave are no better than mine.

    1. avatar Tommycat says:

      With how he’s polling, you actually might stand a better chance.
      Thankfully

      1. avatar Indiana Tom says:

        I could always run on the platform that I am not a crook.

        1. avatar Cliff H says:

          Pretty sure that plank is not an option if you’re from New Jersey.

    2. avatar What The Heck Is That says:

      I could probably run on the platform of “I can’t possibly F things up any worse than the last two or three bozos” and do better in the polls than Christie…

  3. avatar Bob says:

    “Terror watch list” should equal “deportation list”. If it doesnt (and it doesn’t) it means it’s a farce, and a dangerous farce.

    1. avatar Kyle says:

      be careful what you wish for.

      I simple bureaucrat who doesn’t like you much can put you on that list.

      Where, precisely, shall we deport you?

      1. avatar FedUp says:

        I think he’s saying that if the list were not a total farce, the only people on it would be those who belong in prison or need to be deported.

    2. avatar int19h says:

      Are you saying that terrorist watch list should mean automatic stripping of citizenship?

    3. avatar doesky2 says:

      JHC, the stupidity just burns.

      14 years since 911 and there is no process for innocent people to clear their name from the watch list.

      Just WTF is wrong with this picture?

  4. avatar TyrannyOfEvilMen says:

    This is really a no-brainer for anyone who understands what the Bill of Rights actually means.

    Clearly, Christie does not and that is why he’s unfit to serve even though I would have no problem having a beer with the guy.

  5. avatar Bob Watson says:

    In a future President Pillsbury’s case I would prefer “Hell with the Chief”.

    1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      As the freedom snatching imperious president he would be, I’d prefer “Hail to the Thief!”

  6. avatar MamaLiberty says:

    He has no problem with “guilty until proven innocent.” Prove you are not a “terrorist?” How does that work?

    Unfortunately, Christie is not the only one with this insane mind set.

    1. avatar Seth says:

      “guilty until proven innocent” – sounds like every prosecutor I know..
      “rights?? they’re guilty! they have no rights!”

    2. avatar Indiana Tom says:

      if your turn out to be on the terrorist watch list and you can demonstrably prove you’re not a terrorist.
      Soooo… why don’t we change it to the government has to prove you are a terrorist.
      If someone is actually proven they are a terrorist, then why are we merely watching them?

      1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

        I have been saying this for years. Why watch them? Is it to intentionally let them terrorize to the point US citizens put more safety before liberty, giving even more control to the feds?

  7. avatar Dean Carpenter says:

    Again an excellent example of why Trump leads. Plain truth is easy to understand. You may not like what he says or the way he says it and that is fair but this is just blather from Christie. It does provide hints why he let Shaneen Allen sit in stir then one day dropped the charges.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I agree.

    2. avatar int19h says:

      Trump actually supported the idea of prohibiting guns to those on the terrorist watch list. And he doesn’t seem to have any problem with such a list by itself (unsurprisingly).

      http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/11/robert-farago/donald-trump-nist-watch-list/

    3. avatar doesky2 says:

      Have you noticed that Trump’s criticism of government is NOT that government is….
      ….Too big or
      ….Too burdensome or
      …. Too liberty snuffing

      …but rather that that the gargantuan lumbering government doesn’t work better because it doesn’t have his magical Midas touch.

      Uh huh.
      Isn’t the pitch of “I’ll make government work” the home field of Leftists and Libtards?

      I’ll vote for him if he’s at the top of the ticket but I have every suspicion that his primary operational mode will be to “make deals” and if that means pitching us overboard I’m sure he’d do it.

      1. avatar foo dog says:

        +1. I dont trust Trump either. New York values.

    4. avatar barnbwt says:

      God, the stupid burns with these people. Was or was not Trump the guy who first broached this whole “we should be stripping rights by fiat from people whose names I’ll get to put on a list” bullshit storm a little over a month ago?

      Your boy’s a statist; sorry to break it to you. If that doesn’t bother you, well, you’re probably a statist also, and yearn for the The Donald’s people to tell you (and most importantly, people you disagree with) how to live your life.

      Not that shocking considering he was born in Queens, and basically never left the nest. Much like Christie, Bloomberg, and insert-any-other-East-Coast-Elitist-gun-grabber. This is what Cruz was referring in mentioning ‘New York Values’ though it’s sad our nation has become so divided as to be two cultures in opposition.

  8. avatar Mk10108 says:

    Such a stupid ill informed answer, I cannot in good conscience, muster a response.

    1. avatar Indiana Tom says:

      I can, but it would fall under the flame deleted category.

  9. avatar Shawn says:

    Just prove a negative, which is impossible. Easy game.

    FU Kris Krispy Creme

  10. avatar Tommycat says:

    If the person is on the terror watch list, and cannot be trusted to buy a gun, WHY ARE THEY STILL WALKING FREE!!!

    Oh that’s right, because we don’t lock people up who happen to have a similar name to someone who is a terrorist.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Because you can be put on the list based solely on a suspicion, or an association with someone else who is under suspicion, or because your business activities involve the Middle East, or because you are an Arab American who simply traveled to the Middle East. One case I know of was an Arab American student who spent a semester in Egypt. It took him two and a half months traveling to other countries on non-US airlines to get back to the country. He was interrogated by the FBI in Cairo when he was detained; and the invocation of the right to counsel means the FBI walks out the door and your chance of getting off the list drops to zero. A similar fate befell a Seattle businessman (of Syrian extraction but American by birth) who was detained after traveling to Libya, and because he was a member of a mosque believed to have extremist members. If you are overseas and detained for questioning by the FBI, it is waive your rights or swim. Obviously Christie has no idea what the Government is up to under the authority of the Patriot Act.

      1. avatar Jim Bullock says:

        You know, it’s almost like it would be good to have a refereed, public, adversarial process where people can challenge charges made against them, before their stuff or rights are taken away.

        Oh, wait.

      2. avatar Tommycat says:

        My point was, more to highlight the ease for which someone could be put on a watch list through no fault of their own.

        A man named Muhammet Attah with no relation to the other guy gets placed on the terror watch list through no fault or action of his own. He then has his rights stripped without due process and even without his knowledge. THEN he commits a crime(because a prohibited person attempting to buy a firearm is a crime) without ever knowing he was committing a crime, because he had no knowledge that he was prohibited.

  11. avatar Ardent says:

    Denial of 2nd, 5th and 14th amendment rights and the solution is ‘get yourself off…’

    That ought to be repeated like ‘let them eat cake’ and have the same response.

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      “No Christie, why don’t YOU go get yourself off? With a cactus!”

  12. avatar Another Robert says:

    Well, damn, that’s pretty much of a deal-breaker for me–and I’m a former prosecutor too. Prosecutors are the last people who should be cavalier about due process–well, prosecutors and Presidents.

  13. avatar MurrDog says:

    I think you mean Heil to the Chief.

    1. avatar Indiana Tom says:

      Sieg Heil to the Chief!

  14. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    Fascism didn’t end with Mussolini…jus’ sayin’. Big chris is on MY list.

  15. avatar Ralph says:

    Chris Christie is no friend to anyone but Chris Christie.

    FIFY.

  16. avatar Ken says:

    One would think a former prosecutor would know the law. Innocent until proven guilty is not hard to understand. I suspect he signed it because he knew a veto would have been overridden and he did not want that on his record. In hindsight, it would look a lot better than the disaster he signed. It just shows that he will sell out to powerful opposition. We don’t need another coward in the White House.

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      Forget it, Ken, it’s Chinatown, I mean New Jersey.

  17. avatar Hannibal says:

    When he was trying to get elected in NJ he was all for gun bans. Now that he’s in a republican presidential primary (er, sorta) he’s run away from that position but still carries water for the gun control crowd out of self-interest or ignorance.

    Given that, I have no doubt that if he were to get to the general election he would be the worst republican on guns in decades.

  18. avatar AlanInFL says:

    He is a RINO. Screw him.

  19. avatar Fred says:

    Chris Christie made a statement to further clarify his point, “if you’re wrongly convicted of a felony and want to exercise your Second Amendment rights, get off the felons list. If you’re a sex offender and you want to move into that perfect house right next to the elementary school, get off the sex offender’s list. If you want to drive but have your license temporarily revoked due to a DUI, get off the DUI list. It’s really simple, people.”

    1. avatar Kyle says:

      And if the system is set up in such a way that getting off said list is next to impossible even when you a demonstrably, provably, innocent by any measure?

      Perhaps it isn’t quite that simple

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      He’s a real simpleton, people! He’s had more than enough education to understand that everything he said is just flat wrong. He says it anyway, making me think he believes he’s in the Dem primary.

      1. avatar barnbwt says:

        Between Rubio basically flopping back to a pro-amnesty stance (albeit a ‘severely conservative’ one) and now Christie spewing this idiocy, I wonder if some camps are falling back in advance of the Iowa caucus (“I dunno what happened, but now I have no choice but to blow all this campaign money in a final blaze of indulgent glory due to my falling poll numbers! Oh noes!”)

  20. avatar Kyle says:

    the Primary is going to boil down to: Trump, Cruz, and Rubio. Pretty much everyone knows this at this point. The rest of them are praying for a miracle.

    …Miracles are pretty rare, kinda why we call them miracles.

  21. avatar CRF says:

    “Prove you are not a terrorist”

    “Prove you are not a communist”

    “Prove you are not a Jew”

    “Prove that you aren’t a runaway slave”

    “Prove you are not a witch”

    1. avatar Ing says:

      She turned me into a newt!

      1. avatar CRF says:

        “A newt?”

        “Well… I got better!”

  22. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    I you’re gonna have lists, have a clear, robust, well-known, efficient way to get off each.

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      If we’re gonna have lists, we should also have lamp posts. It’s only fair that our leaders lose the same due process they would deny us.

  23. avatar Anonymous says:

    The no fly list is wrong. It is based on suspicion and accusation. If the government suspects someone of being a terrorist and has evidence against them – try them in court for their crimes – otherwise leave them alone.

    Whether flying or denying them a purchase of a firearm – we shouldn’t take people’s freedoms on the basis of bureaucratic whims. Christie thinks it makes sense. I don’t think any of it makes sense. Logically – it relies on the same basis for imprisoning Japanese because of their “race” during WWII – and of course – for the sake of safety.

    This type of law does not follow the just and age old philosophy of “innocent until proven guilty.” Completely unjust in my eyes.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

  24. avatar Brian says:

    This guy is a disgrace.

    Hey Chris, “exercise” your right of self control and lose 150 lbs, as you are likely on every airline’s no fly list due to risk of tipping one of their jets into an irrecoverable spin while seated by a window.

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      He has, and he’s still fat as hell (only lied half his ass off so far)

  25. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    … if you turn out to be on the terrorist watch list and you can demonstrably prove you’re not a terrorist. — NJ Governor Chris Christie

    That would be great except that it is quite literally impossible to prove a negative!

    I have a better idea: hows about our government prove that someone is a terrorist — with actual evidence that a jury approves in a formal trial — before government interferes with any of our rights.

    I will happily give up my rights when government can prove that it has NO intention of working against my interests. (Good luck with that.)

    Sheesh.

  26. avatar HP says:

    Statist RINO Christy once again shows his true colors. I’m able to at least take solace in the fact that 1. I don’t live in New Jersey, and will never, ever again set foot in New Jersey, and 2. Jimmy Hoffa stands a better chance than Christ Christy of being our next President.

  27. avatar Bob says:

    Not only is it virtually impossible to get off the Terrorist Watch List, you can’t even find out if you’re on it! If you ask, they will refuse to confirm or deny. The only way to find out if you’re on the No-Fly List (a different list), is when you show up to get your boarding pass and get refused. Never mind the vacation you have planned and paid for, or the business trip, you’re not gonna fly…..

    You can’t find out if you’re on the lists, and you can’t find out what got you put on the list, and, unless you’re name is Ted Kennedy, you can’t get off the damn lists…

    Ain’t Big Government grand? Ya gotta love it! (or not….)

    1. avatar Cuteandfuzzybunniess says:

      Do states even have access to the watch list? I mean if NJ passes a law against selling guns to people on the list , could that even work? Unless the us congress tells NICS to send a denial, how would an FFL or the state of NJ even know ?

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