Which is Faster: a Gun or a Book?

On freerepublic.com, a commenter, Blue Jays, says he uses the following technique when gun grabbers claim that they can obtain a handgun faster than a book or any other common item.

My favorite technique is to offer a “bet” with Liberals.
Whatever consumer item they offer (book, car, vegetable, whatever) in contrast…I make a bet that I can acquire any or all of those things *faster* than they can obtain a handgun.

Typically my offer is to reward them the value of the firearm PLUS give them $1000 for “winning” the race.
If I obtain my items faster, they can pay me for the items and we are even.
Liberals are never willing to engage this race with me.

I have occasionally resorted in a similar technique, offering a bet when someone makes a claim that’s outrageous and patently untrue. Such claims are usually made out of ignorance, so a wager tends to clarify their thinking process and educates those that are merely watching the exchange. My experience is the same as Blue Jays’. I have never had anyone take me up on such wagers.

The key to such wagers is they have to be concrete, verifiable, and the bet has to be public. Another technique is to suggest that the loser’s money be donated to a charity of the winner’s choice. The key is to have the person who is making the outrageous claim put their money where their mouth is.

I am curious if anyone has been successful in getting a blow-hard gun controller to actually make such a bet.

©2015 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included.

Gun Watch

comments

  1. avatar jwtaylor says:

    Nope, I’d lose that bet. Because if I walk into a bookstore it might take me an hour to find the book I want and purchase it. A gun store? 5 mins.

    1. avatar Notalima says:

      LOL. When bookstores actually existed (I think Barnes and Nobel is the only one not extinct here in Vegas) I would be the same way. Spine shopping books. Be there hours.

      When I’m gun buying I know exactly what I want and it takes as long as them reviewing my CCW (like a hall pass to avoid the BGC) and paying. Done. 😀

      1. avatar savaze says:

        You can buy a book anywhere that sells groceries…

    2. avatar LongPurple says:

      It would only take me a minute or two to find the book I came in for, but add an hour or two browsing around.

    3. avatar Craig says:

      I’d loose too. My luck, the book I want would be at another library and would take 3 to 5 days to get to me.

    4. avatar Galtha58 says:

      @Jwtaylor: Let’s all remember that you are making this bet with a Liberal. They will NOT have a CPL (Concealed Pistol License in WA State). They will not have a clue which gun they want and will not even be familiar with guns in most cases. They will probably ask a lot of stupid questions. In WA State there is a waiting period if you don’t already have your CPL. And that is after you fill out all the annoying paperwork and wait for the NCIS to respond. I can get on Amazon and have a book sent to me in 5 minutes. Granted, it might take me some time to decide which book to order. But, if a Liberal walks into a gun store and asks to buy a gun without making a decision which one he or she really wants it will take a LOT longer than 5 minutes to finish that purchase and walk out with the gun. At least that is true in Washington State. Need to compare apples to apples.

      1. avatar Colt Magnum says:

        594 doubled the waiting period from 5 business days to 10. I thought the text of the law didn’t exclude WA. CPL holders from the waiting period anymore. Am I wrong, or is this just not being enforced? I hope this crappy law goes away.

        1. avatar Haap says:

          I don’t believe the wait period is required for CPL holders. My wife and I live in WA, have our CPL’s and have bought 3 pistols this summer with no waiting.

    5. avatar Jeremy S says:

      This whole “it’s so easy and fast to buy a gun”…let’s call it a meme…made me laugh when the riots in MO were kicking into gear and people were flocking to gun stores. Oh, how sweet the calls of all of those anti-gun liberals were when they were freaking out and saying “what do you mean I can’t pick up the gun for a week!?!? But there are riots. I have a Constitutional Right to own a gun!”… when just the week before they were so darn convinced you could buy a gun more easily than a book 😛

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        There’s an idea for a TTAG article, Jeremy.

        Contact the gunstores local to Fergeson and hear their stories on how the riots impacted their gun sales.

        Any TTAG readers local to Fergeson up for the challenge? It could be the start of a writing career for someone…

      2. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        Same thing happened in L.A. during the Rodney King riots of 1992. Terrified liberals lined up at gun stores, only to be turned away by California’s mandatory waitng pperiod.

    6. avatar JSJ says:

      No need to pick a book, according to Obama, we are only interested in owning Bibles. In and out, 2 minutes.

  2. avatar Gatorgrabber says:

    You can gets past a NICS check in 5 minutes?? I’ve never been that ‘lucky’. 😉

    1. avatar Gman says:

      NEVER taken more than 5 minutes. Don’t know if that TS clearance has anything to do with it…

      1. avatar Grindstone says:

        Same here. Only time it took longer than 5 was because I accidentally hit the wrong state in the drop-down on the e-4473.

      2. avatar VTAero says:

        Nah, totally unrelated. Though when I had one I always thought I should be able to walk in with my DOD issued CAC and walk out with a gun in any state any time. I mean there isn’t any more thorough background check possible that what it took just to get that ID.

        With NICS you are either on the No Guns list or you are not. Time depends on how your state requires the dealers to access the NICS and the busyness of the system at the time they try to access it. Sometimes you can get a slight delay if your name is substantially similar to someone on the naughty list.

        1. avatar tdiinva (now in Wisconsin) says:

          That should be the case for any federal government employee not because they are special. It is because if you can’t pass a NICS check you probably can’t be hired. Certainly anybody with a TS clearance should be able to do it because of the proctology or pelvic exam call an SSBI.

      3. avatar anonymoose says:

        Same here, and I’m about as civvy as you can get. I have seen people have to wait like 2 hours or come back the next day at my FFL and LGS, though.

        1. avatar MichaelD says:

          Reply to all the NICS check comments…..the only time it took me longer than approx 5 minutes was three or four years ago on a Black Friday (day after Thanksgiving) and the BATF was so inundated with calls by buyers taking advantage of sales that their system crashed, they were backlogged, and it was the following Monday or Tuesday (I forget) before the gun shop called me and said OK, come pick up your gun. In Alabama…AKA God’s Country.

      4. avatar PNG says:

        When I bought my AR a couple months ago, the shopkeeps told me the NICS check was one of the fastest they’d ever seen. I asked if it was my newly awarded TS and they said those actually take longer if provided recently. Strange, but I’ll never question it.

    2. avatar Anon in CT says:

      CT has its own copy-cat database, and the answer usually comes in about 2 minutes. It takes me much longer than that to fill out the Federal and State forms. I usually order online and do the transfer through a local FFL guy who I meet by appointment, so the speed of the transfer is determined only by how fast I can fill in forms.

      Hoffman’s Guns in Newington is usually pretty fast, unless they are swamped. They insist on watching you fill in the forms, so that can add some time.

      The one time I bought at Cabella’s in West Hartford they had computers for filling out the forms (nice, my handrwriting sucks), but then I had to cool my heels for an hour or so while they did the check and did who knows what. I thought it might be just a policy to leave you wandering around the store to increase sales, which is smart in a dickish way. I just sat down and did work on my iPad instead.

      1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        Same deal here. Local FFL (houstonffltransfers.com) guy specializes in transfers inbound ($10 with carry license, $15 all others) and outbound, plus they buy guns for sale online

        I’ve taken delivery twice within just this last week of Bud’s Guns orders (NAA 5 shot .22lr revolver and a Henry .22lr survival rifle) and it’s a snap. Simply fill out their inbound order form so they know what’s coming, then their system will email you once its logged in.

        From there, you respond with your pick up appointment time and it’ll drop that into your calendar. Show up, fill out the form, inspect your purchase, pay your ten spot and you’re done. Friendy guy with no attitude. In and out in less than five minutes. Only way it could be faster is if they installed a drive through.

    3. avatar jwtaylor says:

      With a valid Texas CHL it takes about 30 seconds.

    4. avatar Gatorgrabber says:

      Folks, I wasn’t exactly being serious… 8-|

    5. avatar CarlosT says:

      It’s always taken at least 15 minutes for me, and usually more like half an hour.

    6. avatar JSJ says:

      5-10 minutes here in WI. Handgun checks go through the state DOJ and they’re normally pretty quick unless it’s lunchtime.
      Ironically they sell books one floor up from my FFL’s shop.

  3. avatar Franko says:

    Haven’t done that but I do like to question liberals when they say so & so politician is crazy. I just say, “give me an example” and watch them start stammering.

  4. avatar Gman says:

    Look, I’m getting annoyed at this topic. The Prez is alluding to the availability of illicit guns. We keep putting it into the context of a legal purchase. Of course, then he is leading to new laws or regulation which will have no affect on the illicit trade and only affect the law abiding. Which of course we can all agree on is unacceptable. But let’s keep the conversation anchored in the reality that exists among inner city gangs. Where, in all likelihood, it is easier to obtain a gun than a book.

    Yo homie, I need a gat. Trunk opens….

    1. avatar Old Ben turning in grave says:

      For inner city gangs, I don’t doubt that’s true. But background checks and gun laws have nothing to do with that, anyway. The points are always raised in the context of a mass, “random” shooting. Most of the shooters are not gang bangers, so will not know anyone. They can arrange to meet someone, but that will probably take time. Roll into an inner city neighborhood where you know nobody and start asking about who is selling guns. My guess is you won’t get very far.

    2. avatar Another Robert says:

      Fair enough, Gman–but it isn’t limited to the Pres. Erica Soto-Lamb of the action-deprived faux “moms”, for example, actually said it is easier to buy a gun over the ‘Net than it is to buy a pair of shoes over the ‘Net. Multiply that a few hundred times over for local-news pundits yammering about “internet gun sales”, etc. I really would like to see them called out on that foolishness.

    3. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Your point is valid, but when some lib parrots the President on this and we offer to wager on it, the discussion leads to the obvious conclusion: The gang bangers are already obtaining their guns through illegal channels, which makes new laws (expanded background checks, waiting periods, etc.) pointless.

    4. avatar schernobyl says:

      Nope his statement was broad and non specific. My anti guns friends think buying a gun is like picking up a pop in a convenience store so yes legal gun purchases apply since that’s how they interpreted his comment

      additionally once I was lost looking for a gun store that was located in a rough neighbor hood. Getting help to find the store was impossible I seriously doubt getting an illegal gun would be as easy unless you’re already tight with those blackmarket entrepreneurs

    5. avatar CarlosT says:

      I still call BS, because you can find books (not necessarily great books) at pretty much any CVS or Walgreens. So hop a bus, find one or those, and you can get a romance novel or Clancy knockoff for $9.99 plus tax. Book acquired, no felonies required, no need to know any homies. All you need is the price of the book and bus fare.

      Getting the gun illegally, while maybe faster than retail, requires that you know someone who can put you in contact with someone who is will to sell to you. If you don’t already have that contact, then you have to somehow establish it. How long does that take? You’re going to somehow get to know a guy who knows a guy and so on and so forth to lead to a guy who’ll sell you a gun faster than you can ride out to the drug store to buy a book?

      Yeah, okay, Mr. President.

  5. avatar Notalima says:

    I think this would be a worthwhile bet from two standpoints:

    (1) I get whatever they bet I could not get for free
    (2) They now own a gun! (which, if they don’t want it, I can take off their hands for a ‘held by liberal’ discount)

    ta da

  6. avatar Chip Bennett says:

    Does the gun purchase have to be legal? That could be a game-changer. Even so: Phone. Kindle App. Kindle Bookstore. One Click. Done. 30 seconds.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Unless you are already a criminal, or a known associate and so introduced, I doubt you can convince some black market guy to sell you a gun from his trunk without a pretty severe “background check”.

      The chances of an otherwise law-abiding citizen just walking up to a car in a bad neighborhood and trading cash for a pistol, no questions asked, are pretty slim.

      The Feds seldom prosecute for a failed NICS, I don’t think the criminal gun seller would be so kind if you failed his background check.

      1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

        The chances of an otherwise law-abiding citizen just walking up to a car in a bad neighborhood and trading cash for a pistol, no questions asked, are pretty slim.

        I had the same thought.

        Anyone else having Office Space flashbacks here? I can just see Peter, Samir, and Michael trying to pull this off…

      2. avatar JOE MATAFOME says:

        You’re right on target. If you don’t know the local thugs they might offer to sell you a gun and then they’ll rob and beat you silly. They only sell to their own people, not strangers off the street.

    2. avatar BDub says:

      Give progressives another 8-16 years in power and the book will be just as hard to come by.

      1. avatar Guywithagun says:

        Bravo!

  7. avatar MamaLiberty says:

    Can’t really buy any more paper books… no room! The house is stuffed with books and guns and such like. Thank goodness the kindle has almost infinite capacity, but I’ve slowed buying those because I have so many already unread. I’m going to be really pissed if I die before I get to read them. Ditto if I get too old and infirm to buy more guns and shoot anymore.

    Wait, what were we talking about?

    Easy to buy both, and buying them privately isn’t a crime – even where there are “laws” against it. This question is set up with a false dichotomy.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      A house full of books and guns…paradise. MamaLiberty, you are now my mother in spirit.
      🙂

      1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

        My spiritual sons outnumber the bio boys by a very large margin. Welcome to the family. 🙂 I grind my own wheat and bake often, so there’s always something to share besides the coffee. If you ever come to Wyoming, you’d be welcome to share it. Of course, the coffee time is after shooting! Then we can compare targets and argue about which guns are the best. LOL

    2. avatar Geoff PR says:

      As a note, MamaLiberty –

      Consider a thumb drive or two to backup your eBooks in case it conks out or home fire (God forbid!) happens.

      I have 2 stashed in different locations (along with other documents and detailed photos of personal effects) after having such a fire…

  8. avatar FedUp says:

    I’d hate to take the car bet, unless I can walk into a dealership and say “I’ll buy right here, right now, but you have to cut all the bullshit and take me to a cashier”.

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      Used car, cash transaction. Here’s the cash, I’ll take those keys, we’ll shake hands, and I’m on my way.

  9. avatar GuyFromV says:

    Skin in the game tends to help clarify the subject someone is ignorant about. It’s also a good way to get the subject on the right road to understanding a truly free market.

  10. avatar Mark N. says:

    I could spend all afternoon in a bookstore and still beat a liberal out the door by at least 9 or 10 days. (California=10 day wait. Plus passing a test and getting a Firearm Safety Certificate. Or having a CCW that avoids the FSC but not the 10 day wait.)

  11. avatar Ralph says:

    Buy a book? I can read a book faster than a leftard can buy a gun (over 40 days in MA just to get a license). Hell, I could write a book faster than that.

    1. avatar JOE MATAFOME says:

      40 days is pretty fast in MA depending on where you live. I know people who waited several months. Seekonk & Rehoboth can be done in about 40 days and if you’re lucky even faster.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Hiya JOE! Long time no see.

  12. avatar TITAN308 says:

    I am fairly certain it takes longer to purchase a car than to buy a gun.

    Don’t want to be that guy, but its true.

    1. avatar schernobyl says:

      My uncle could he walks in with cash for a little under the area value of the car he wants. Skips the salesmen goes to rhe manager and walks out with a new car quickly. Cash cuts out alot of the bs

      1. avatar TITAN308 says:

        I’m sorry, but unless you are buying a car second hand from a private seller where you hand over the cash and he hands over the keys and title, you are not walking out of a dealership in less than 10 minutes with a car.

        I think your story about your Uncle is probably exaggerated, cash in hand or otherwise.

        1. avatar schernobyl says:

          Not sure we’re the ten minutes comes from. But 23-25 minutes was the turn around time on his last car. Then again he buys cars often so maybe his done it often enough or they have a speed dial folder for him not sure.

          The three nearest local guns tires took 30 minutes to get me through the process with no delays on the nics and I knew what gun I was purchasing. I think it’s due to their staff turn over.

        2. avatar DrewN says:

          I worked for a large motorcycle/atv dealer for years and years. It’s a little longer with street bikes, but a farmer could walk in, plunk down his cash and by the time the shop checked the fluids and loaded it in the truck the paperwork would be done. 10 minutes tops. Maybe an hour for a street bike with financing and extended warranty etc.

        3. avatar TITAN308 says:

          Because it only takes 10 minutes (or less) to buy a gun. Walk into gun store, pick model, fill out paper work (in some states having a carry license exempts you from a NICs check), pay, walk out.

          Even if they have to call in your paperwork that takes a minute or two.

          In a nut shell it does not take 20-30 minutes to purchase a gun.

        4. avatar CarlosT says:

          It’s never taken less than 20 minutes for me.

  13. avatar Kendahl says:

    It’s been a while since I’ve bought a book but I didn’t realize the law had changed so much. You mean I now have to fill out a federal form attesting that I’m a good citizen and the bookstore has to do a NICS check on me? I suppose if I live in the wrong jurisdiction, there is a waiting period and the book can’t have more than ten chapters. They are right about the internet sales loophole. When I’ve bought books online, all the seller cared about was getting paid.

  14. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    That would really be a sucker bet in Illinois, since you need to apply for and receive a FOID card first. That will take a month or more. Then fill out the 4473 and you wait 24 hours for a long gun or 72 hours for a hand gun.

    Even private transfers in Illinois are illegal without sending the buyer’s FOID number to the State Police and getting approval.

  15. avatar Cloudbuster says:

    In the large number of states that don’t have any additional restrictions on person-to-person transactions, the anti-gunner could easily win by bringing a friend with a gun. When the competition starts, he turns to the friend, hands over the cash, gets the gun. Transaction done.

    1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Since when do anti-2A types have friends with guns who are willing to sell to them?

    2. avatar CarlosT says:

      If those are the rules, then we still win because the pro-gun person could bring a friend who brings a book. It would still not be easier to get a gun than a book.

  16. avatar Hoplopfheil says:

    I can obtain a gun faster than a book. Because my gun is closer to me than my books (sorted by author on a nice bookshelf in the living room).

    I’m sure the original claim is to obtain a NEW gun or book, not one you already have. In which case, common sense (ha) dictates buying a gun takes way longer than getting a book.

  17. avatar George says:

    Note: please do not use the wager method to settle 9mm vs .45 ACP debates.

  18. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    SEE: Curtis reply. Not fast in the Land of Lincoln. Even slower because my last several guns came from Indiana(and I plan on buying off the interwebz next time). Honestly do ya’ think that kind of talk is serious?

  19. avatar Danny Griffin says:

    Yep, I’ve used this betting offer numerous times. I call the leftists out every time. It tends to shut them up in a hurry.

  20. avatar AW1Ed says:

    Suckers bet here in The People’s Republic of Maryland; mandatory seven day waiting period on “regulated” firearms.

  21. avatar pres stone says:

    no because they don’t value facts, only emotion. so no matter what you do or prove, they will just reject it and they are free to do that but not free from ridicule.

  22. avatar JOE MATAFOME says:

    One of the gun grabbers who works with me said it’s so easy to buy a gun on the street corner in a matter of minutes. I told him to head on down to our local ghetto and buy a gun and that he could win a thousand dollars. He backed down because he feared the local street thugs would rob him instead of selling him a gun. I told him that after they got done beating his dumb ass that they would take everything on him and drive away in his car. I guess it’s not that easy to buy a gun on the street corner.

  23. avatar JOE MATAFOME says:

    Took me almost ten minutes to buy my last Glock and walk out the door. I’m one of the lucky ones who has a town permit and doesn’t have to wait for the seven day wait period.

  24. avatar Southern Cross says:

    I’ve had same argument down under about walking into a gun shop and walking out with a gun.

    Yes, I tell them, after I’ve waited 6-8 weeks for the permit-to-acquire to be approved by the firearms registry, and in that time I selected the gun and paid a deposit to hold the gun until the paperwork has been approved.

    As for you, the shop may let you look at a gun, but don’t expect to be able to buy one without the license AND the PTA (which is also a PITA to go through for every purchase).

  25. avatar Dustin says:

    “I am curious if anyone has been successful in getting a blow-hard gun controller to actually make such a bet.”

    The only two times I’ve managed to get a Liberal to go in for such a bet, it was, both times, an anti-gun LEO.

    Both times, I kept getting notice that he was practicing, and I was going to be sorry…

    The bet was, both times, “dollars to donuts” 100 donuts if I could not out-shoot him. $100 if I could.

    I hadn’t fired any of my handguns in over two years, and handily beat the first one. He threatened to arrest me for illegal gambling. I told him that you ca’t gamble on weather or not the sun is going to set, it’s a certainty, no ta game of chance… Win or lose, he didn’t want that pointed out in court, and let it drop. Ego…

    I hadn’t had any handgun practice in over 5 years when I went up against the second one. Still won, but not by such an embarrassing margin as the first. He stood good for it.

    No other liberals have ever been willing to put their money where their mouth is on any principle they advocate. They know their own words are lies.

  26. avatar tdiinva (now in Wisconsin) says:

    Nice Lynyrd Skynyrd reference in the picture.

  27. avatar ken says:

    Much like what my father(RIP) used to do. When faced with someone blathering nonsense, his response was always; “Care to place a little wager on that? Come on, put your money where your mouth is…”.
    He, too, had very few takers. Liars KNOW what they are saying is untrue, but count on others NOT being aware of that.
    Then, when it would become clear that no bet was forthcoming, his answer would be; “well, money talks and yours is silent. Money talks and bullsh*t walks….”
    I never saw that technique fail to shut up whoever it was.

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