“A Tennessee man had a gun pointed at him by a man who appears to have been a bail bondsman while he was video recording them arresting his nephew Tuesday morning,” photographyisnotacrime.com reports. Yes, well, one of the crew ogelters behind a shield labeled “police.” The man who took the video says that “This happened today in East Memphis Tn, they just took this post off Facebook so nobody could see it but ima keep posting it and y’all keep sharing it they locked my nephew up and was pointing the gun at me and his pregnant baby mother.” Fair enough? Or . . .

illegal and a really good way to escalate an arrest into something a lot worse? I mean, what would you do if a bail bondsman suddenly pointed a gun at you during an apprehension? What if it was at night and you didn’t know what was going on? Your thoughts?

79 Responses to TN Bail Bondsman Points Shotgun at Bystanders During Apprehension. Fair Enough?

  1. Bail boys are a throwback to the old west-glorified criminals with badges. I chuckled when he said “baby mothers”…

    • These guys definitely are, some bonds men and women act like proffessionals, and deal with skips as professionals, not like these police academy failures. Would this be a valid reason for a defensive gun use? I mean if someone points a shotgun at you…

  2. I can tell you, in my state, bail bondsmen me are a difficult bunch and many of them get arrested each year. First off, in this state, if you carry a firearm for employment you have to be act 235 certified. None of the bail bondsmen are ever certified. That’s one charge against them. Second, they are sloppy. They often force their way into the wrong homes and slap people around, there’s like a dozen more charges. Their actions are always on shaky legal ground and they have no immunity for their actions. The entire bond industry is filled with shady dudes who do business with thugs and need to hire thugs to track down the jumpers.

    I don’t doubt there will be charges coming against these guys in TN.

  3. I mean, what would you do if a bail bondsman suddenly pointed a gun at you during an apprehension?

    –If he’s wearing a vest, and I don’t know what sort, I seek cover as I put one in his pelvic girdle before I double tap him above the nose.

    • Screw their vest…. Just put a 7.62×51 NATO black tip thru 3 of them when they hide behind each other. No need to waste ammo

    • Wow, you guys are brave. If someone gets the drop on me with a shotgun I’m not doing shit unless I really, really think I don’t have a choice.

      • Some guy who looks like a meth head pointing a shotgun at me for no reason?
        I’m already potentially dead, so I don’t have any choice but to fight it out with my 1911. If I had time to go inside and grab my Garand full of black tip AP, I wouldn’t be in immediate danger.

        The meth-head has 11 of his cranked up friends with him, one of them carrying a riot shield?
        Can’t do much other than kiss their asses now, and kill their asses at a later date if it’s the only way to get justice.

        • BTW if anyone thinks this gear is hard to get look at Capitalist. Especially near military bases I bought 3 level 4 shields at an auction for $60 total dept. I worked for was getting ready to buy 1 for $2,200. Got spike strips for 18 a set. Used the money saved for.another officer to be hired. Think what I could have got direct.

    • I wish you would have been there and taken care of the gutless idiot in this vid. No reason at all to keep a gun on those people.

    • Yup. Even worse. Those guys should have been way more discreet with the muzzle. Pointing it at them directly and lighting them up with the shotty light after they went into the house?

    • Yep, not a bond recovery specialist or a regular cop, but a US Marshal, one of the few FLEAs who are actually legitimate law enforcement officers. But if one of them acts like this while 11 others are not violent felons (at least not at the moment), why don’t the other 11 arrest the one committing assault with a deadly?

      I still can’t believe feds go out on a mission wearing faded jeans and vests without an agency name on them.
      They look about as legitimate as Dog the Bounty Doofus.

    • Those were the fattest Marshals I’ve ever seen.
      2 of those dudes were rounder than they were tall!
      Serving felony warrants?
      Marshals? Don’t think so…

    • I’m not surprised. It’s called immunity people. He could have shotgunned that guy in the face and got a paid vacation. The socialist method of accountability. If they did something wrong, the taxpayers get to front the Bill.

  4. Last time I checked, bail bondsmen are not law enforcement officers. They have no legal authority I am obliged to respect. He points a gun at me or mine, he gets dropped. Plain and simple.

    • Look up ‘Taylor v. Taintor’, 83 U.S. 366 (1872), where you will find:

      “When bail is given, the principal is regarded as delivered to the custody of his sureties. Their dominion is a continuance of the original imprisonment. Whenever they choose to do so, they may seize him and deliver him up in their discharge; and if that cannot be done at once, they may imprison him until it can be done. They may exercise their rights in person or by agent. They may pursue him into another State; may arrest him on the Sabbath; and if necessary, may break and enter his house for that purpose. The seizure is not made by virtue of new process. None is needed. It is likened to the rearrest by the sheriff of an escaping prisoner. In 6 Modern it is said: ‘The bail have their principal on a string, and may pull the string whenever they please, and render him in their discharge.’ The rights of the bail in civil and criminal cases are the same. They may doubtless permit him to go beyond the limits of the State within which he is to answer, but it is unwise and imprudent to do so; and if any evil ensue, they must bear the burden of the consequences, and cannot cast them upon the obligee.”

      • That’s nice. When do we start living up to the “when guns are outlawed, I’ll be an outlaw” exactly?

        Citing law, while knowing it’s wrong. Citing case law findings, while knowing it’s corrupt…

        You come for me and mine, I kill you. I don’t care if you’re a thug with an MS13 tattoo, or a thug with a badge. Or pretending to be a tug with a badge.

        “Law abiding” has become a synonym for “damn fool.”

      • Look up Kentucky law which bans bail bondsmen and bounty hunters. They can and have been charged with kidnapping in the state of Kentucky.

  5. Whatever happened to bear mace?

    Screw these guys. Taking advantage of a broken system for monetary profit. The whole thing needs to be completely reformed. Not to mention pointing a weapon at people. He’s lucky he wasn’t shot. Maybe won’t be so lucky time.

  6. All of the “I know you rayciss!” garbage aside. Shotgun toting dude severely f*cked up…

    I’ll venture a guess that this was a pickup on a warrant in a pretty sh*tty neighborhood or these guys wouldn’t have rolled in so deep. That said, there is no excuse for a weapon being anywhere but at the ready short of a presented threat. Worse yet, the dude kicked the weapon light on (seemingly to prove a point) and kept it trained on the cameraman just to remind cameraman that he was still there and still watching.

    I’d be in no hurry to prove it in court, but a dude pointing a gun at me is arguably demonstrating an immediate threat of death or great bodily harm. The shotgun wielding bag of ass needs to be in handcuffs.

  7. I suspect that I would move out of his line of fire – seek cover without setting him off. After that, I am not sure.

  8. How many of you guys have caught on that those were US marshals, not bondsmen? I just ask because there still seems to be a lot of “bail bondsmen aren’t LEOs ” comments after the link to the story was posted. OTOH, could be seen as evidence that the Marshal’s Service really is the poor step child of Federal LE. When I was looking into them some years ago, they weren’t requiring anything beyond a HS diploma, if that, education-wise.

    • What’s it matter, LEO’s or bail bondsmen? After watching video of the neighborhood searches for the Boston bombers every citizen is now expected to cower and hide when an armed representative of authority points a gun at them … and thank them afterwards for their service to society.

    • If they are Marshals, then they need to be wearing clearly identifiable dress uniforms, not looking like a meth posse.

  9. I don’t get it, he keeps calling the shotgun dude Ray and then at the end, he ends up asking the guy what his name is! Hey dummy just review your own video and you will discover his name is Ray.

    I think shotgun dude needs to be in jail, bail bondsman aren’t cops and even if this guy was a cop, he deserves to go to jail. You don’t get to point a shotgun at people just because you are scared of them. That is known as bare fear and doesn’t pass the sniff test in any civilized place, bad neighborhood or good.

  10. I didn’t see the entire encounter from start to finish. I can’t figure out why the shotgun is pointed at the camera man. Can’t see if the finger is on the trigger or alongside. Did something happen to justify this. Shouldn’t he just have it at the low ready as a show of force if needed. No need to antagonize folks unnecessarily with the pointing and the light etc.

    I saw no badges or uniforms indicating LE personnel.

    • We didn’t see the whole story. Maybe the camera went on right after the guys on the porch issued verbal threats?

      “I’m gonna kill you if you don’t let him go”
      *Points shotgun*

      I’m not saying that’s what happened, I’m saying we don’t know. That’s all we can really say – We don’t know what happened, we only got half the story.

      People taking a sound byte or partial video clip as being “the whole story” is the kind of foolish that keeps places like MSNBC in business.

  11. I’m glad I live in Illinois – a state without bail bondsmen.

    I don’t hang with people who get require the services of bondsmen, but I do spend time in Tennessee and other states with these “service providers” from time to time.

    Bail Bondsmen are nothing more than glorified bullies far too often. It’s probably a good thing they don’t interface with people like me while pulling stunts like this. I suspect they would make very life-like reactive targets for a very short period of time.

    John

  12. Let’s see YOU’RE “harboring” a “fugitive” which is a felony in most jurisdictions and YOU’RE complaining the bail bondsman “covered” YOU with a firearm in order to protect himself and his coworkers from getting shot in the back? I want to know more like just what was the “little angel” wanted for in the first place other than “bail jumping” and if ANYONE in the residence had a criminal record which included charges of “weapons possession” and/or assault of police and “resisting arrest”. I wouldn’t put it past some including family, neighbors and fellow gang members to distract agents performing their duties to enable a criminal to flee or distract them enough that they, the bail agents, become a crime statistic themselves

    With the calls for the killing of cops and the rash of brazen murders of police recently including one today in South Carolina ANYONE that appears to be affiliated with “law enforcement” of any kind is “fair game” in certain locales. Sorry, I’ve got NO sympathy for the ghetto videographer and would like to know if he has a criminal record or gang ties (many bail bondsman check that stuff out BEFORE attempting to make an apprehension).

    BTW As we’ve seen in prior instances nationwide there is a segment of the law enforcement community that hate “recovery agents” as they, the agents, sole existence proves police are either incompetent in some cases or can’t protect the public by apprehending dangerous criminals already “known” to “the system”. Additionally.if the fugitive recovery agents had called the cops (the same ones that failed to nab the thug in the first place) the police would’ve grabbed the bail-jumper and cheated the agents out of their rightful reward.

  13. Well, here in AZ levelling a weapon at somebody without a damn good reason like ‘imminent threat’ type of damn good reason is otherwise known as class 3 felony aggravated assault.

  14. In Missouri we call that at best “displaying a weapon in a rude and threatening manner” (7 year felony) and at worst “dead”.

  15. Fair enough? That’s assault with a deadly weapon.

    It’s bad enough that these wannabes get to play dress up and pretend they have the authority of law enforcement when they don’t. I don’t think they should be given any more leeway that you or I would in the same circumstances.

  16. What did this man do to warrant should excite force? The hunters ARE stupid because he was not behind the van. Also as soon as they went inside he should have lowered the shot gun, pointing it at someone IN their home is clearly against the law. No double standards put the DC politicians on Obamacare and SS.Thanks for your vote.Pass the word. mrpresident2016.com

    • I tend to agree, but we can’t see what the Marshal was seeing. Its hard to see into a dark house from a bright street, but its easy to shoot into a bright street from a dark house.

      Bottom line, we don’t know what happened. I definitely don’t like what I see in this video, but the video only shows a tiny fraction of what was going on.

  17. Don’t care what clown costume the moron dons a drag: #GovtTerrorist or #CorporatistTerrorist, you best believe that’s a texbook illegal brandishing of a firearm.

    If a lobotomized turkey raised muzzle toward someone in an entirely uninitiated, uninstigated, unjustified manner? He best pray lead rain ain’t unidirectional.

    One would be in the full right to defend oneself against a muzzle sweeping ahole.

    • Except you don’t know any of that, because you only have access to a tiny fraction of the story.

      Stop filling in the blanks with your own presumptions and bias.

      We don’t know what happened here – the end. We don’t know what the people behind the camera were doing, we don’t know what happened before the camera was turned on, we don’t know why the Marshals were acting the way they were.

      We watch the video and react as though we had just entered a scene where some guy in a vest is pointing a shotgun at us and our family – but that’s not what happened.

      • If the people in the house made threatening comments the asshats would have surely arrested them (as one article indicated they were US Marshals) for threatening a law enforcement officer, so therefore, no arrest in this case gives tacit proof the guy pointing the shotgun committed a felony and is a scumbag that needs to spend some time in the pen for his crime.

  18. Bondsmen have the right to apprehend fugitives. If you don’t want to look at bondsmen pointing guns don’t harbor fugitives. Pretty simple.

    • If my nephew was a fugitive, and I made threatening motions towards a group of armed men, I would expect to have a gun pointed at me.

      We don’t know what happened, we only can see a tiny fraction of the whole story, but that’s one possibility.

  19. So it turns out these were actually US Marshalls and not bondsmen. http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/30152254/video-of-marshal-pointing-gun-at-bystander-gaining-traction-on-social-media

    From the local news story, the two relatives (the male and pregnant female) said they want reprimands against the one particular agent because they were in fear for their lives.

    Ummm… if you were in fear for your life, why didn’t you go back into the house? The Marshalls weren’t forceing them to watch the situation unfold. Odd situation. But Photography Is Not A Crime… soo… I don’t know how I feel about this situation. I’ll let this slide.

  20. Doesn’t appear to be a fun job, picking up gang members who shoot each other when it is too hot outside. IF that were my job I would WANT to be extra cautious too rather than get shot up. Low ready position means nothing if you get shot in the head while your attacker is hiding behind blinds and initiates the confrontation.

    I think the logical thing here is if we are going to get our panties in a bunch to get rid of all bondsman and deny bail to everyone. Problem solved.

    • Yeah I’m not sure how I feel about this one.

      I thought the flashlight thing was a dick move initially, but if you think about it, how easily can you see into a dark house from a bright street? Typically in bad parts of town people keep the shades down all the time, or put blankets over the windows to discourage theft.

      It would be *really* easy to shoot someone standing in a well lit street from the concealment of a dark house.

      I’d give this guy a pass – we also didn’t see what led him to point his weapon at them in the first place – the camera wasn’t on.

  21. Chicken $hit police work and the Marshall should be more than reprimanded. The ultimate escalation is to show up at someone’s house in an unmarked vehicle, plain clothes, body armor, and guns out menacing innocent people. That is terrorism in its most basic form, plain and simple. You’d think these guys were serving a warrant for Al Baghdadi in Afghanistan or something.

    I realize the suspect is charged with violent felonies. He probably is a bad dude. However, if serving warrants is too dangerous for your liking these days then go find another job. No one, not even a US Marshall, has a right to point a shotgun at anyone that does not pose an imminent violent threat especially if they are unarmed.

  22. I don’t understand the thought process that the guy pointing a shotgun at him was a racist. I guess that is the go to accusation when one of your family is getting arrested for skipping bail. And it is a good one if you never want to accept responsibility for your actions, and those of your family.

  23. If a peon (citizen) did this he would promptly get arrested and booked with several charges, assault with a deadly weapon being one of them. Of course, for those with the right shiny pieces of metal on their costumes, these laws do not apply.

  24. Lots of people are claiming they would “shoot the guy dead” or whatever if he was pointing a shotgun at you. You really think you’re going to pull your pistol out of your holster and aim it and fire before the guy with a shotgun already pointed at you will have time to fire his gun that surely outguns your pistol? Ya’ll are dreaming.

    And the guy filming the video was giving that US Marshal a lot of credit by staying out in the open like that. I would assume that the guy was going to kill me and I would take cover from the idiot pointing a shotgun directly at me, on camera or not.

  25. Marshalls or bondsmen, shotgun boy is on a power trip and is going to get himself or someone else needlessly killed. Strip him of the gun and license/badge now. He can be a greeter at Walmart.

    There was no lethal threat facing them. The others in his party were at low ready or even at ease with their backs to the camera. That signifies no threat, not comfort that shotgun boy has the threat contained.

    With a fugitive family member and shotgun boy standing in the yard, I’d let them take him without incident, then gi file a complaint, file charges, and file a lawsuit. If he came closer and became more belligerent, it depends on what options were available and how fearful for my life I was.

  26. I’ve worked with the U.S. Marshalls Service fugitive task force a number of times over the years. Of all the Fed task forces I have worked with they are the most professional. The way these guys were acting I’ve only seen from scared rookies and people that don’t belong in law enforcement In the first place. Every sweep I have ever been involved in is get them secured, loaded and off to lock-up. You don’t hang around that was learned by the CHP in Newhall, CA 40+ years ago.
    If they had hit my house it would have been the wrong address which happens a lot especially with bounty hunters. You don’t identify yourself I practice head shots and do have AP ammo in 7.62 & 5.7 by the bed wife slee?ps with an AR w/5.7 upper & a 20ga slug gun I sleep very light & little from back pain along with having a yappy dog.

  27. I once asked a co worker. “Who’s the homeless dude and why is he using my phone?” Turns out he was a Marshal. His partner was equally scruffy.

    • Good to know. If somebody looking like Mr Shotgun told me he was a Marshal, I wouldn’t ask for ID because I’d be 100% positive he was lying. DEA or ATF I’d believe, but before this I’d never believe Marshal in a million years.

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