Bryce Wlliams

Out and about today, I followed the WBDJ shooting story on MSNBC’s satellite radio channel. The anchor announced that Twitter and Facebook had deleted the accounts showing the killer’s instantly infamous GoPro video of the murder. The news org’s anchor said the network wasn’t going to run it, or the live footage taken by the now-dead cameraman. Thomas Roberts did, however, describe the shooter’s video, moment-by-moment. What was the point of that? Now I realize . . .

that there are excellent arguments for not showing the video. Running it gives satisfaction to its heinous creator, who deserves none.  It could inspire copycat killers. It’s an affront to the sole survivor of the attack, and the victims’ colleagues, friends and family. These are all compelling reasons. But they must be balanced against other important factors.

For one thing, if we are to confront violence, we must confront violence. The best way to acknowledge its existence – and decide how to deal with it both as individuals and as a society – we must see it. It’s one thing to talk about defensive gun uses, or the lack of defensive gun uses, or the need to be ready to perform a defensive gun use, or laws limiting that ability. It’s another to witness a violent assault as it happens.

Some of us have seen violent assaults, and suicides, firsthand. It’s not something I’d wish upon anyone. But I do believe that everyone should watch acts of criminal violence – such as this act of violence – on video. [Click here to watch.] I understand and appreciate the squeamishness felt by many if not most. Ditto the sense of revulsion. Peace-loving people shy away from gore. But turning away from it is an act of denial. It’s a way of falling yourself that it’s not real. And it most surely is.

This conviction also applies to the horror inflicted on innocents in the Middle East. ISIS’ brutality is disgusting and degrading, inhuman and inflammatory. But there it is. Or there it was, on TTAG’s Facebook page: an ISIS sniper taking a head shot, posted for our readers’ education. And there it went. Facebook pulled the post, took our page offline and asked if we wanted to scan our page for inappropriate content before restoring service.

The First Amendment only protects us against government interference with free speech. MSNBC, Facebook are free to censor their content as they see fit. (Just as the President of the United States is free not to watch the ISIS videos, as his press secretary revealed.) We don’t think it unreasonable or unacceptable to show violent videos on TTAG, provided we do so for [what we consider to be] the right reasons. We’ve done so many, many times in our posts on personal defense. And for various news items, such as today’s attack in Roanoke, which shows the importance of situational awareness (if nothing else).

As always, TTAG listens to its readers. Your thoughts on our policy of running this and other firearms-related violent videos would be most appreciated.

UPDATE: ABC News is reporting that the killer faxed them a lengthy manifesto after the shooting. They have released sections of it. They should release the entire document.

139 Responses to Housekeeping: Should We Have Posted The Roanoke GoPro Video?

  1. Post it. There is no gore. In fact, there’s no sign that the reporter was impacted by anything at all. She reacts to the sound. Weird. I’ve never shot anyone and hope to never do so, but when I hit a paper target, it moves.

    • I can see where this sad tragedy can be used to try and explain situational awareness.
      I agree, I don’t want to give the killer any publicity, but it is also important to learn as citizens.

      • Posting the link was acknowledging the stark reality of violence.

        It is appropriate to be reminded of reality.

        • Clarification:

          The antis live in world of fantasy, the video is brutal reminder as to *why* there is a need for an armed response. Warts and all.

        • + This

          I can’t recall a more graphic example of the exact amount of time a victim has to ‘call the cops’ (even call/cry for help) much less the stupidity and waste of time it would be to wait around for one.

          ALSO, reporter victim likely had even more opportunity to respond with vidiot attempting to (what appears to be) sighting-in through a GoPro. She actually had acres of extra time due to the shooter’s stupidity.

        • I absolutely agree. People need to see what is going on in our country and the world…including how violent people can be. I personally feel as though we have gotten very soft as a society due to MSM spoon-feeding us what they believe we should see and hiding everything else.

          Kudos to the current administration for sparking a race war after promising to bring all races and cultures together. How has nobody mentioned impeachment? Oh wait…..I already know the answer to that…

        • All the sheeple will see is “gun” and “violence” together in the same video. No thanks.

        • We all hear and see reality every day. I had no desire to see these innocent people murdered. Anti’s want these videos shown frequently to press their agenda. I like watching the criminals attempting to rob a gas station or some citizen and suddenly changing their minds when they are confronted with legal guns. Show that all day everyday.

      • Since I saw it myself this morning. And have been involved in similar acts 1st hand in my own past. Up close and personal.
        I don’t see how “us” can benefit from viewing it. Nor can I see how “we” can learn anything from this senseless act of yet in my own opinion and 2 cents worth another nutcase.
        Now if one is the curious type. Please by all means take a look for yourselves and decide..

        • @Jay
          “And have been involved in similar acts”
          -I hope you have never committed a blindsided execution of innocent people. Killing in self-defense is no comparison to that deceased evil man.

          “1st hand in my own past. Up close and personal.”
          -Never look up close at your work friend, unless you need target confirmation. If you have to defend yourself in a confined space be prepared to never eat cherry flavor again, which is the nasty sweet smell of death.

          “I don’t see how “us” can benefit from viewing it. Nor can I see how “we” can learn anything from this senseless act”

          -This video is exact proof of why I carry a gun, because evil exists and I would rather be prepared, than oblivious like the two victims. They had time to defend themselves from this RACIST HATE CRIME, if they were not clueless sheep.

          Ban the LGBT flag because that was this RACIST KILLERS flag of choice, that helped inspire his rage. Confederat Flag is about American History and the LGBT is about History in Nazi Germany.

        • @Jay
          “And have been involved in similar acts”
          -I hope you have never committed a blindsided execution of innocent people. Killing in self-defense is no comparison to that deceased evil man.

          “1st hand in my own past. Up close and personal.”
          -Never look up close at your work friend, unless you need target confirmation. If you have to defend yourself in a confined space be prepared to never eat cherry flavor again, which is the nasty sweet smell of death.

          “I don’t see how “us” can benefit from viewing it. Nor can I see how “we” can learn anything from this senseless act”

          -This video is exact proof of why I carry a gun, because evil exists and I would rather be prepared, than oblivious like the two victims. They had time to defend themselves from this RACIST HATE CRIME, if they were not clueless sheep.

          Ban the LGBT flag because that was this RACIST KILLERS flag of choice, that helped inspire his rage. Confederat Flag is about American History and the LGBT is about History in Nazi Germany.

          @TTAG
          Thank you for not being complicit in the propaganda ministry that is ruining our country. You were Men among Mice on providing this information. This isn’t the country I grew up in that is based on individual Liberty and responsibility. The American Dream ended when we allowed white guilt, ocean privilege and political correctness to replace the Constitution.

        • @Jay
          “And have been involved in similar acts”
          -I hope you have never committed a blindsided execution of innocent people. Killing in self-defense is no comparison to that deceased evil man.

          “1st hand in my own past. Up close and personal.”
          -Never look up close at your work friend, unless you need target confirmation. If you have to defend yourself in a confined space be prepared to never eat cherry flavor again, which is the nasty sweet smell of death.

          “I don’t see how “us” can benefit from viewing it. Nor can I see how “we” can learn anything from this senseless act”

          -This video is exact proof of why I carry a gun, because evil exists and I would rather be prepared, than oblivious like the two victims. They had time to defend themselves from this RACIST HATE CRIME, if they were not clueless sheep.

          Ban the LGBT flag because that was this RACIST KILLERS flag of choice, that helped inspire his rage.

          @TTAG
          Thank you for not being complicit in the propaganda ministry that is ruining our country. You were Men among Mice on providing this information. This isn’t the country I grew up in, because it used to be based on individual Liberty and responsibility. The American Dream ended when we allowed white guilt, ocean privilege and political correctness to replace the Constitution.

    • I wouldn’t show it if I were you , I have no NEED to see it and would probably view it from curiosity and actually I think I would try and figure out what kind of gun he used . I don’t need the temptation .

      • I am not well versed enough to pick up the exact model, but I think a few million people would recognize those fixed sights and boxy shape. I think I heard 15 rounds go off before the clip ended, but I couldn’t tell if there was a reload – there was a pause in firing that made me unsure.

        I’m curious if, even if we don’t see successful moves to restrict weapons, we see magazine restrictions in VA.

    • As I said this morning in another thread, this is my home where this happened. Rented boats at that marina, people watched from the patio at Moosie’s over a burger and a beer. I absolutely think there is a need for outlets like TTAG to link to the video. Not main image it or auto play it, but link it. Give us the option to deal with the evil in this world as we see fit. Watch it and learn, don’t watch it because it hits closer to home, but let us have the choice. Now the MSM broadcast channels SHOULD NOT show it, because they take that choice away from us. If they want to link it from their website fine, but not broadcast it. This wasn’t a tragedy, this wasn’t an avoidable incident, this was cold blooded murder which must be acknowledged. I watched it, I wanted to know how something so terrible, so inconceivable in my mind happened. What he delirious? Was he lucid? What was the situation, was the walkway crowded, was it an ambush? I already knew the outcome, so I wanted to try to comprehend the ‘how’ and that video is one piece of that puzzle. My thoughts, YMMV.

  2. Post it, it was a teachable lesson about SA.

    The guys Manifesto is leaking, he was basically a Black Mr. Roof. He saw injustices done against him and other blacks and decided to make up for it he had to kill a bunch of white people.

    • Exactly. But more people will watch because it was videotaped. Even more will watch because the killer filmed it himself. This event marks a disturbing threshold.
      Get used to this kind of “content”. Soon it will not be enough for a sicko to shoot up a movie theater, they will record and broadcast their rampage as well. What a world.

  3. The fact that these black racist savages are waging war on civilized people, and civilization itself, should not be hidden.

  4. I’m of the camp that feels that publicizing any portion of an unforgivable act by a guy like this can support others with the same idea.

    I vote don’t post.

    • + 1
      don’t give the bastard or (any to follow) the glory of being immortalized
      or the sense of being immortalized, by the Media.
      DON’T mention their name, DON’T show their picture, Don’t acknowledge in any
      way other than being a wacko, cancerous tumor of society. Focus on the innocent victims of the tragedy.

      This guy fed off of and embraced the media coverage of previous mass tragedies. Regardless of whether or not this guy was previously a part of the media machine.

    • +1. I’d go with don’t post. The last thing we need is giving more ideas for glamorized violence and 15-minutes-of-fame for the psychos.

  5. No, it serves no useful purpose. We know what an ambush is, we know what evil is. Anybody can murder two unarmed people at pointy blank range. It is available elsewhere. Concentrate on how we can educate people to recognize and defend against evil.

  6. The hardcore 2A intelligentsia aren’t the ones who need to see it; it’s everyone on the fence, or the unmotivated. People need to be properly enraged about this, and if they don’t see how horrible it is, they don’t get the message as to just how mad they oughta be. In the same way, I think every full grown American who is not mentally disturbed should feel morally obligated to watch at least one Muslim fundamentalist beheading video, not so as to be “terrorized,” but to feel morally outraged and motivated to stop it. Out of sight, out of mind.

    • Non 2A folks will not see it as “they need to be armed for protection”
      They will use it to justify their lame, take away gun agenda.

      • I obviously don’ know all the details and they may never be totally revealed but if there were 12 , 13, 14 or 15 or more rounds fired at two people it’s either total over kill or one or both of the victims had a chance to return fire had they been armed and prepared , as for example , I am . If I was shot and not incapacitated I could theoretically and would have returned fire and dropped that ass where he stood or surely tried , I noticed the girl running on the live shot and that means she had some time to return defensive fire had she been armed . I would have no quams watching a news cast where the beautiful 24 year old had a pistol strapped plainly in view on her side . Folks , when you remove all traces of God from society you get the wild wild west and we better prepare ourselves for the unbelieving , crazy in the head nut case that is waiting in the shadows to make a name on our deaths . I don’t go anywhere unarmed anymore . WE DON’T NEED LESS GUNS NOW , WE NEED MORE . At this juncture in history , I would recommend everyone prepare to defend yourself . Like I said , the story here is unfinished but it appears this news reporter could have shot back after she was initially shot first ,
        I have great sadness for all those who knew her and the cameraman and will greatly miss them , such a waste if it just turns into another story about disarmament if the citizenry . Not a waste if one person learns a proper lesson , whatever it be . God bless these families and God please have mercy on America , I pray everyone reaches out to You for healing and understanding .

      • Marty- absolutely correct. The sheeple won’t see the lesson here we’re thinking they’ll see. It will not be about protecting yourself, it will be about evil firearms used to kill.

  7. We have the most controlled MSM in the world, with the possible exception of North Korea (maybe). The government ensures we see nothing of the imperial wars overseas, having learned the hard way in Vietnam what a free press can do in theater. It’s almost refreshing to see violence, as sick as that sounds. Feel bad for the families though.

  8. I watched it. Both camera videos. I’ve seen lots of people die, so I guess it doesn’t affect me too badly.
    I looked at it as a teachable moment.
    Lesson learned.

      • Situational awareness for one. The murderer was showing his gun like forever before he started murdering. The cameraman had his back to the thug so he never had a chance. The two women were so engrossed in the interview they never saw it coming. The person being interviewed would have seen the gun if she had turned her head slightly to the left. It may have saved a life it she had.

  9. I have no problem with TTAG posting the video. Obviously it is horrific to watch, but it is a perfect illustration of the importance to keep aware of your surroundings at ALL times. I still can’t believe the perp was able to get that close, draw and level his gun before shooting and none of the three victims seemed remotely aware of this guy. Hard to watch? Certainly. Awful for friends and family of the victims to have the video out there? Yes. Perfect example of why one should be aware of one’s surroundings at all times? Yes. In my opinion it should be available for viewing.

  10. If there’s something to be learned from it, then yes. Watch it, think about what happened and why, and then move on and forget this guy ever existed.

    It’s not the availability of the video or the manifesto that’s the problem, it’s the blanket coverage and sensationalized public freakout that these slimeballs crave. And they’ll get it via the Old Media no matter what the rest of us do. Besides, if the “mainstream” media refuses to show it, that’s a clue that it might actually matter.

  11. I really don’t care if you post it or not; I won’t watch it or video’s like it.

    Here’s why:

    “Some of us have seen violent assaults, and suicides, firsthand.”

    Seen this sort of thing enough; don’t need the video.

    That said, I recognize the (claimed) value it has for those that have not had such experience. But, I think it goes the way of those old bloody car crash movies they made us watch in driver’s ed back in the day.

    Everyone that needs to see it will continue to believe “it won’t happen to me.”

    So, imo, nothing really is gained.

  12. I don’t know, I guess my argument against it would be that this is exactly what these psychos want (notoriety, there little minute of infamy, some way to spout their crap manifesto, etc) – and why do we accommodate that and doesn’t that just perpetuate it?

    I understand we shouldn’t hide from reality. I guess I just think that if we muted this all down a bit (didn’t play into their game), perhaps we’d see the copy cats tail off and find some other outlet (like putting the first shot in their OWN heads, not at someone else).

    I wish we could somehow test my hypothesis. All media mute the coverage of these events to facts only (no names of the shooter or details of his ‘grievance’, no pictures, no infamy, etc) and see if these shootings tail off. It seems like it’s something of a fad at the moment (as sick as that sounds) because the idea is being perpetuated and the media is all too happy to play along…

    But what do I know… I could be entirely wrong. Hard to figure out what exactly is going through these psychos heads that would cause them to commit such heinous acts against others.

  13. Post it, for the same reason someone said above, it is a bone chilling reminder of how lack of situation awareness kills. MF’er draws down on the girl from what looks like barely arms length away and not one of the 3 people noticed the creepy guy, not once, not when he was walking up, not the first time he pointed a gun at them, not when he continued to lurk behind the camera man, and not when he drew his weapon again, nobody even looked at him to ask him wtf he was doing there until he started shooting at them. Not to sound cold but the reporter lady didn’t even register her flight response until she had taken what looks like 3 shots to her upper torso (if you find a copy of the vid that hasn’t been deleted you will see what I’m talking about).

    Post the video, post it for all the people who come in here and shit on others for training for situations just like this or calling people paranoid for practicing situational awareness in their every day lives.

  14. It should be shown on as large a screen as we can manage.

    The reality of life is that this can happen to all of us, anywhere, at any time.Indeed its probably happening to someone as you read this.

    The FBI couldn’t save these people.
    The DHS couldn’t save these people.
    The local PD couldn’t save these people.

    They couldn’t save themselves, because the need to do so never occurred to them until they were already being shot at. Hopefully , seeing good people bite the dust this way in high def video serves notice that the only agency which can protect you is the YOA – Your Own A$$.

    Corallary to this, those of you in anti carry jurisdictions have hard questions to face. Note that the same people who’d deny you a carry permit can’t physically stop something like that video from happening to you. Remember- the government official who says you don’t have good cause to carry a gun would rather you end up like that reporter and her cameraman then dare have the tools to stop such an assault. Ask yourself if you want your family to live in a place like that.

    • ” Remember- the government official who says you don’t have good cause to carry a gun would rather you end up like that reporter and her cameraman then dare have the tools to stop such an assault.”

      That’s the best statement here!

      Even so, I love asking antis why they think the world would be better with me dead and a gal I know raped and a group of kids molested — and they almost never get it.

  15. If you don’t hit the mark perfectly every time–and you can’t–you therefore will undershoot or overshoot your mark. Indisputably. Give that, you which of the two would you prefer to do sytematically?

    Would you prefer a news site whose job it is to share news…share news first (possibly with a warning) and secondarily, and only in the most extreme cases, pull back…or would you prefer a news site to consistently self-censor first, and if and only if they later decide to…share news that might possibly be objectionable?

    Obviously one size doesn’t fit all. I prefer a news site to publish the news, and let the readers decide what they review.

    Publish it.

  16. Context is everything. You have labeled your site “The Truth About Guns”. This tragic video illustrates many valuable insights – it is relevant – not gratuitous.

    – There is no gore

    – The victims were oblivious

    – Evil resides in everyone, it’s whether we choose to allow it to consume us.

    My opinion is for you to enable us to learn from this incident, hopefully to prevent others…

  17. I watched it, observed and learned. Back in police academy, we watched shootings over and over, again and again. Sometimes the good guy wins; sometimes the bad guy wins. It’s unfortunate and sad; but, we have to learn from things like this.

    Heart goes out to the victims.

    • +1

      TTAG has a pretty knowledgable membership. In every life’s experience there is a lesson…

      Once you identified your murdered daughter by a tattoo on her ankle and have your own life shattered by a crime there is no real answer for, one [should try!]tries to become a better person or as her mother did let it fester inside until it takes you as well.

      Like the beheadings of ISIS…..you NEED to watch it! Evil should not be ignored…

      Sure, issue the typical warning…..but like evil….it’s out there whether you actively fight it with mind and body….or be like sheep and ignore it!…..

      • “Once you identified your murdered daughter by a tattoo on her ankle and have your own life shattered by a crime there is no real answer for,”

        I cannot imagine the heatbreak you & family must still suffer. Prayers and best wishes to you all.

  18. No. Several people posted his video on my FB page and I have deleted each posting. I don’t want to have anything to do with giving that criminal any publicity.

  19. post it. maybe there’s one member here that doesn’t know the value of looking up every once in a while.
    the shooter spent, in the grand scheme of things, an eternity with his gun leveled at the victims. what a difference a little peripheral vision could’ve made.
    that’s not to fault the victims at all. they are victims of the shooting as they are victims of a society that has equipped each person with blinders, shielding them for the realities of everyday life. our FB feeds, twitter updates, and text messages can’t consume that much of your attention.
    this world is dangerous. pay attention to you surroundings.
    post it.
    if you don’t think you can handle it, don’t click it.

  20. Go ahead and post it.

    More important, shouldn’t we begin a discussion of who needs to be concerned about their own security in our society?

    Let’s see; government executives (President, governors, mayors) are surrounded with security at public expense. Men of means – e.g., Bloomberg, are likewise surrounded at private expense. Each member of Congress is protected by 3 Capitol police.

    Obviously, the 4th Estate need not concern itself with personal security. The police will protect them.

    Equally obviously, the proletariat need not concern itself with personal security. The police will protect them.

    Or not?

    Is now an appropriate time for the 4th Estate to start thinking about the efficacy of relying upon the police exclusively? Or, are they too vulnerable to workplace violence, random criminal acts (but certainly not violence from those of the religion of Peace)?

    This TV station having fired a troublesome employee, shouldn’t it have provisioned its employees with armed guards whenever they were on the streets? In their offices? For at least 3 years?

    Alas, in this situation, the work crew apparently consisted of just 2 people and no one was covering their 6. Perhaps there was no economical solution to providing security for such a situation. Nevertheless, the more people on a work crew the more likely one or another of them could be attending to situational awareness while others are performing the job at hand. If they were all armed then one or another would be able to respond.

    Maybe the MSM will begin to think about just exactly how they could imagine getting guns out of the hands of people “who shouldn’t have guns” notwithstanding that they can pass a NICS check. If they can’t think of a viable plan to disarm criminals and crazies then what alternative do they have to up-arming ordinary Americans?

    • I haven’t watched, have no desire to. From what I have read, I can’t imagine learning anything from seeing these two people murdered. “Situational awareness” Bull S. I get that we should be aware of whats happening around us but they knew this guy.They knew he was crazy. I imagine they didn’t think he was “that crazy”. Maybe they were situationally aware but ignored him because they didn’t see him as a real threat, just an ahole they knew. ANYONE can get sucker punched ….ANYONE. All that being said…No we dont need to see it.

  21. I’ve said this multiple times RF, it’s your site, do what you want. People who don’t like it will go away, and those who do like what you do, will stay and more will come.

  22. Posting the video allows TTAG readers to make a choice of whether to view it or not. Not posting it denies us that choice. I’m a fan of personal choice. TTAG’s duty is to its readers.

    I just wish we had a better view of Christopher Dorner. Oh, wait, This guy’s name was Vester something. Not that it matters. Same crazy bigot, different day.

  23. – Would you have posted the video if the psycho knifed two people to death?

    – Would any of the Anti’s have anything to say if he used a knife instead? Would it get even half the media coverage?

    It’s quite apparent, this wacko could have just as easily used a knife with equal effect.

    The reporter lady was just 24. The cameraman 27. What a waste of two young lives. I pray some punishment awaits this psycho wherever he is going and I pray for the families of the victims.

  24. I absolutely think you should post it. It provides a rare glimpse into what may actually happen in a workplace violence incident. I watched the video and, _if_ I remember correctly, there was a point early on where the perpetrator stood to the side of the victims, within the clear peripheral vision of one, and aimed the firearm — all from a distance of a few feet (maybe 10 or 12 feet). After a second or so, he repositioned and returned several seconds later to begin shooting. This tells us a lot about how aware most of us are of our surroundings when we are focused on a task and not in any sort of alert condition. There was nothing gory about it. It’s valuable information.

  25. Not sure about showing the video. Pros and cons on both sides. I watched it and it was not that violent. Most of the action was off the screen. However, it does point out that “situational awareness” should be on the top of everyone’s mind. Not sure if showing or not showing that video will encourage people to watch out for Wacko’s or not. I do think that showing something that a nut case has recorded may encourage others do to the same. So I guess the bottom line is the cost versus the benefit of showing it. Will it do more harm that good or more good than harm ?

  26. Absolutely.

    If nothing else, its a great – if unfortunate – tool for teaching that no matter what you’re doing, you should always have situational awareness.

  27. Situational awareness is most likely what made those guys in France be able to get the jump on the Perp with the guns. Being very aware of your surroundings at all times is an excellent habit and should be practiced by everyone. Get off your cell phone and be aware of the world around you. It could save your life or the life of someone you love. That even works when you are driving your car.

    • Ever seen the video of Hiroshima or Nagasaki?
      Ever seen the video of the September 11th?
      Ever seen any video coming out of the middle east?
      Ever seen any video of Nazi concentration camps?

      Sure, you are witnessing an individual, not a mass group, or viewed from afar, but you need to get rid of the notion that watching media scrubbed death is any better. Get rid of the blinders, sometimes you have to look at some of the most disgusting acts of man, in order to learn from them.

      • I don’t search it out and would rather not see it, especially innocents such as these two. I’ll watch ISIL get bombed, shot, caught on fire all day long though.

  28. I say post it. I disagree with censorship. I disagree that capital punishment is kept from the public eye because if current laws in place. If the information is out there and legal, who is to say what is made available and what isn’t.
    When an organization starts doing that, they lower themselves to the ranks of they sleazy mainstream media where omission is manipulation.

  29. Man, where’s a concealed carrier when you need one. That a hole presented plenty of opportunity for someone to take his psycho ass out before he got off a shot.

    As far as TTAG showing it? Ahhh I don’t know. It was everywhere anyway. I could argue both sides (just as you did in the post)

  30. It’s true, it happened, and it deals directly with guns. Post it. And also the death penalty for the killer – after due process, of course.

  31. This was a snuff film- a movie made of an actual murder, by the actual murderer, for the purpose of self-gratification or publicity. Posting it gave the murderer the stage he was looking for, and will attract copycats.

    You shouldn’t post it or link to it. Let some other degenerate bleeds-it-leads site do that.

    It will happen again, and you shouldn’t post or link to that one either. You’re better than that.

  32. I’m torn about posting it. I watched it and while I didn’t learn anything new, I am now resolved to pay closer attention to the people around me.

    I understand situational awareness, but I’m a quiet and non-confrontational person by nature, so when I’m in public I tend not to look directly at people as we pass each other.

    Watching the video, he points his gun and then lowers it before raising it again and then shooting. I know she’s a ‘professional’ reporter and focused on her job, but even a cursory glance when the camera wasn’t on her would have alerted her to danger and possibly saved her life (and you can’t tell me she didn’t know when the camera wasn’t on her).

  33. It needs to be shown, it must be shown. Violence exists and no amount of hiding or denial changes that.

    This is what the far left violence machine looks like, stare into its gaping maw and see the future. Then prepare to defend yourselves.

  34. There is only one true account of what happened: the video.

    Describing the events leaves too much open to individual interpretation, and guarantees at least something will be misinterpreted and passed on as fact without the true record being available.

  35. I saw the video elsewhere and was horrified. He stalked them and very deliberately shot them as many times as he could to make sure he killed them. But the worst part was that they were so focused on their work, that they had no idea he was coming up even as he lingered, almost deciding whether or not to pull out the gun. He knew, as a reporter having been in the same situation, that they would be literally blinded by the video lights and totally concentrating on the interview. I doubt that the reporter had much useful peripheral vision given the hour of day and the bright video light on her and the interview subject. A sad lesson about lack of situational awareness, but aided and abetted by very bright and very dim light, just like you might have in a parking lot at night. The worst thing, though, about which the media will not acknowledge its complicity, is the guy’s own statements about the Charleston Church shootings, Columbine, and Virginia Tech. Rare proof that the media’s constant drumbeat of the sickest type of violence can indeed influence other sicko’s in the worst possible way. I have very mixed feelings about this video being shown, and that I watched it myself.

  36. absolutely post i. you warned about the graphic content and NSFW . Nobody who didn’t want to see it had to.
    It was worth seeing for the same reason LE watches vids of crimes. What the killer did makes me sick. There is no substitute for seeing real events to understand the absolute Evil of them. attacks can have warnings, the actual attack can happen quicker than you think, situational awareness. If you think a handgun has the “stopping power ” you see on the millions of simulated shootings you;ve seen on tv and the movies, this video will set you streight.

    I have a daughter the same age as the victim, I understand how the family feels, they are in a place so horrific that nothing could make it worse. my heart goes out to them.

    The killer is dead. What he wanted is irrelevant. As a person of faith , I am sure he is getting no satisfaction now, or ever will again.

  37. it amazes me how clueless and cold some people are. the gore is NOT the issue. you are showing some ones last moments on this earth snuffed out by some asshole. THAT is why they are asking this. if you can’t grasp that, i don’t know how to make it any more clear.

    No, i don’t think it should have been posted. its incredibly insensitive. Showing the video is nothing more that shock factor, THE EXACT SAME BLOODY SHIRT WAVING RF COMPLAINS ABOUT. Watching the video doesn’t show you anything that is relevant.

    NO ONE can be fully alert to everything that is going on around them at all times. If you think you can, you live in a dream world.

    Think about it, you are giving this POS asshole exactly what he wanted, AN AUDIENCE.

  38. Don’t post snuff flicks. Pretty easy rule to follow.

    I’m also noticing a pattern where TTAG posts distasteful stuff, then invites readers to say whether it’s distasteful. Double the clicks!

  39. Posting the videos for informational purposes was the right thing for TTAG to do. This crime has become a national news story. It is better that the public see unedited, first hand information to counter act the gun grabber’s usual blood libel against law abiding gun owners. The governor of Virginia is already spouting anti-gun BS. It will be interesting to see how the usual shills turn a racist black gay guy who hates black men and white women into a Tea Partier.

  40. At first viewing this morning I thought it shouldn’t have been posted. I later realized that came from emotion and disgust…not from a more logical place. I do believe that the media should have a responsibility to not immortalize and glamorize such heinous acts. How we do that is still up for debate and I have no great answer. To throw this away or censor it would also be a huge mistake. It IS a vital learning situation regardless of opinion. Situational awareness? Hell thats just one thing anyone could understand from seeing the video!

    Not trying to invoke Godwins Law but how many people to this day deny such atrocities? Seeing IS believing and if we fail to see what is happening, then denial and degeneration will occur.

  41. Hey, was that a Glock I saw in the video still capture? I’m no expert, but it sure looked like a Glock. Since the still capture is a little fuzzy, maybe someone who knows , or has seen the full video, can confirm whether it was or wasn’t a Glock pistol. If it was, I’m sure that Glock will be completely stoked that a site like TTAG decided that it would be an invaluable teaching moment. That we ignorant children could see the horror of watching someone being murdered in cold blood,…..with a Glock. Is that the teachable moment?

  42. I say, post it. If you want to see it then watch it. If you do not want to see it, then do not. No one is twisting your arm.
    But not posting it is a form of censorship, which I do not agree with at all…… Just saying

  43. i will say it does speak volumes about TTAG that you asked this question though. Shows your hearts are in the right place.

  44. Another act of “gun rights” sponsored terrorism by the ttag sheep and its slave-master friends NRA and gun lobby.

    The 2nd amendment- taking innocent lives since its tyrannical inception.

    • Your so intelligent!!! How did you ever figure out that the NRA bought him a gun and trained him to become a maniacal racist? I’m sure the 2A also compelled him to get a gun and murder someone. I’m sure the Church shooting and the purchase date of the gun was all arbitrary and coincidental. Looks like pure gun lobby and NRA , 2A liability to me! People CANNOT be responsible for there actions because……..well….because…we can blame it on something else…specifically when it pushes our agenda!

    • Willy, people like you are precisely the reason I carry a sidearm. You are every bit as sick and twisted as the perpetrator was. If you can’t help yourself or let someone help you, then at least go away and find a more redeeming activity.

      Tom

    • Another act of “gun rights” sponsored terrorism by the ttag sheep and its slave-master friends NRA and gun lobby.

      Willy. You have again placed all gun owners and the NRA in the same boat as murderous killers. Rights aren’t intended to sponsor any kind of terrorism. The 2nd amendment is the right to keep and bear arms and was intended as a deterrent against government tyranny. It was not intended, nor protects, the act of murder of individuals. This is currently, and has always been, against the law.

      The 2nd amendment- taking innocent lives since its tyrannical inception.

      This is Orwellian doublespeak. Written inscriptions within a countries’ constitution within a bill of rights does not afford people protection to murder others. Please actually look up the definition of tyranny here:

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tyranny

      The 2nd amendment was designed to protect the people from tyranny. It was designed to empower the people, and place restrictions on the governing body. It is neither tyrannical, nor has it “take[n] innocent lives.”

  45. Autoplay on the video was a bit much. The older I get the more things like that affect me, even without the gore, just knowing what’s happening in it and hearing the sounds.

  46. Already saw it on a FB gun group I belong to. They had no chance-if the female reporter had turned the dead POS would have shot her immediately. The camera guy had his back turned and the interviewee was the only one who could see the coward lowlife. As any performer you learn to block out distractions(unfortunately). But it’s ALL about the GUN-not the evil demon pulling the trigger(have fun in hell). Workplace violence?!? How about a hate crime at ALL LIVES MATTER…

  47. The video is surreal. It looks almost exactly like a first person shooter video game. Since most of us have played FPS games the video seems uncomfortably familiar. It wasn’t gory in the slightest, just detached and cold.

  48. Count me in the ‘No’ crowd, RF.

    The only reason is that I truly believe that these people are copy cats. This POS specifically referenced other spree killers. The media coverage and infamy is what is perpetuating this. If all media agreed to shut it down/stop covering these a holes (somehow), I truly believe this would tail-off dramatically, and especially with psychos like this. Will that happen? yeah, I know… but still. THAT is the way to stop this. Not gun control, not showing it so we can all see the horror. Take away their reward and they will stop playing the game, it’s that simple. Yet that difficult.

  49. No way these things should be censored. I have a feeling some day soon the public availability of uncensored video will play a major role in a controversial current event, hopefully for the better.

  50. I work in broadcasting, I know Many Photogs and reporters and as Such i choose not to watch it. I am not suggesting Censorship by any means, but i don’t think posting the video is helpful to anyone, and i am a little concerned that someone might see this as a means to get their 10 secs of fame.

  51. I would say no, especially not now. We’ve taught people like the man who committed that crime that they can send a message with the blood of innocent people and the various media outlets have cheerfully propagated their messages for them. In a few days or weeks and having given the criminal the treatment they deserve, maybe I’d feel differently, but right now, all it does is give him legitimacy and fame he doesn’t deserve. Frankly, I’d rather we never saw his face or name in the news.

  52. I don’t think its necessary to post it. This guy wants the attention. I would rather discuss the media reaction to this guys alleged “victim” status and his so called grievances (motives). Or how about liberal policies which lead to releasing criminals but taking away guns from law abiding citizens? That’s a better discussion.

  53. YES. EVERY video can be a lesson, as long as one gains something.

    Cams depiction of distance: court cases: video distance as perceived, vs recorded, vs actuality.

    It displays the mindset of killers: notice, he initially took a slight hesitant pause; it showcased just what true dangers of complete obliviousness of situational awareness can be. Can also mull, at what point would you have recognized an armed assailant sneaking up on you. And postulate, what you could or could not have done, within that timeframe, the environment/surrounding, escape route, if any, whom to cover/save, taking cover/concealment, etc

    plus, to put it bluntly, sickening situations of others stuck in the predicament, aside from 1st hand experience, will be as close as you’re ever gonna get to a real-life lethal dynamic encounters, if you haven’t yet. plus, obviously it won’t completely, but can aid you in inoculating the self, somewhat, in stressful incidents.

    it’s called sympathetic response: ability within humans to imagine ourselves in other’s situations, and extrapolate based on one’s own understanding of self-limits, and manual proficiency, what one may postulate, can, or cannot, or may, or may not, in such plausible situations.

    to put it bluntly, if one cannot objectively observe a video of a lethal encounter, you really shouldn’t be carrying, because while you may think you may be capable of defending yourself in the moment, you may not be able to deal with your own personal moral and ethical responsibility of, even IF justly, taking another human’s life, in self-defense, or defense of others, IMHO.

  54. My biggest issue with posting the video is that for every sick person like this who acts there are 100 or more other cowards who are just waiting to get tipped over into acting.

    Seeing the huge media blitz that this is generating it seems that copycats are highly likely. With the medias incessant “guns are eeeevil” position it will be interesting to see how they handle security for their people.

  55. Downside to posting:
    – it is seen a gratuitous
    – it publicizes those who should be left to rot
    – it is a constant reminder to those who lost loved ones
    – it can be described if a point is being made

    Upside to posting:
    – there may be lessons to learn
    – it shares the truth of what happened

    I don’t see a lot of upside to posting, but it’s a powerful thing to learn from. My major takeaway from a lesson learned perspective was the value of more rounds in a DGU. At such a close range, I am sure that the reporter was hit when targeted. Even though she was a low adrenaline victim who was surprised, she survived multiple hits (and did the best thing she could have – it looks like she was trying to find cover and reduce her presentation). How much harder will it be to stop an amped up criminal?

    Anyway, that was what I learned. Maybe others knew that or learned something different. My only hope is that everybody who watches it can find a way to give value to the lives lost by learning something, by not leaving them to be sacrificed in vain.

  56. This was the first ever “social media murder” – There will be many more. I’m fine with it being posted here, in the context of relevant news.

  57. Test pilots used to listen to the black box recorders of crashes to learn what happened and what to do and not do. This is no different. There are lessons to be learned (and reinforced).

  58. Posting that murderer’s footage doesn’t provide him a post-mortem soapbox; if anything, it is those that promptly started using his murderous, entitlement-insanity to foist their own hoplophobia on others who are enabling & encouraging animals like him to follow suit.

  59. Watching the video, I would say these people in the newscast have a situational awareness of zero, and the honor student could have killed them with Maxwell’s Silver Hammer while the Beatles sang the song.

  60. This website is called the truth about guns, you showed what actually occured. People can interpret however they would like the many news stories to come based on these murders. You showed the raw truth.

  61. Robert you said “For one thing, if we are to confront violence, we must confront violence.”

    I would have said “For one thing, if we are to LEARN FROM violence, we must confront violence.”

    Anal, for sure, but I believe the point is valid. Good points throughout.

  62. Slayings like this are so rare that I just have a hard time buying in to the rationale that it inspires copycats. In fact, this particular scumbag says he was inspired by Dylan Roofs not recorded shootings.

    When I hear about stuff like this, I want to watch the video. I just do. I consider myself sane and rational which, if true, means that if I do, tons of other folks want to as well.

    I’m not a fan of censorship even if it’s coming from opinion of the masses or corporations versus a government. Australia was able to succesfully gag the Port Arthur shooter from media coverage, but to what avail?

    Attacks are so rarely video recorded that any time you come across one there is a ton of information to learn, especially combating the wrong information we’ve learned from Hollywood videos. Like did you know that people can be shot without showing blood spatter or visible signs of clothes being penetrated? Apparently they can, we all learned that from the news video today. Not only that, it looked like the woman had opportunities if she had the right attitude and skills to fight back since the initial shot didn’t kill her or drop her dead.

  63. Debatable. I am against a de facto ban on ugly things, especially when ugly things need to be known. There is a whole lot of ugly going on in the Middle East. And while the loss of historical items and places may be getting more airtime, the loss of people here and now seems to be hidden behind the curtain.

    There is a difference between posting a video that one has the option of viewing, and ad naseum highlights with a background of the clicking of tongues. News at 11 becomes Rock Around the Clock.

  64. Post it. I’ll probably not watch it, I don’t think I need to in order to face what happened, but I like the option. In fact I WANT the option.

    Thanks for all you do.

  65. POST. If it needs a NSFW or GRAPHIC warning, then state that too. But post it. Show it like it is.

    I have a job, wife and kids, a mortgage, two car loans, a dog, bills, emails to answer, a niece’s wedding this weekend, a leaky roof and a rust spot on my car and 10 extra pounds of belly fat I need to get to. I am in condition white at all times. Glossy, silky, shiny white.

    In my house I have a fire extinguisher, a chest seal and one of those metal link ladders that you can unroll to get out of your house from the second floor during a fire. I have never practiced with any of these items. I will never practice with these items. I should. But it will never happen. Primarily because I will never need these items……………unless of course on one very unlikely and bad day I do need one of these items. On that bad day, I would greatly appreciate having somewhere in the recesses of my mind even the memory having once seen a video of some sort on the subject.

    I think seeing such a video will improve my reaction time. My reaction will go from 10 seconds of “Wait. What is happening? Is this really happening? Can’t be! OMG, it is happening”, to maybe 8 seconds.

    Eight seconds is still much too long. Glacial. Probably useless. But I thank you from the bottom of my heart that it wasn’t 10 seconds.

  66. I say post a link, it gives people the option. I have personally watched it and while it is not the most gory or violent, it is one of the more horrific IMO.

    IMO there is value in the video to hopefully open some peoples eyes to what real violence looks like versus how it is portrayed in movies and on tv; ie not quick and clean. Getting that much out of it is at least a symbolic gesture and at best an effective means in repurposing it for some good.

  67. Post it. Let us decide what we wish to see and know. This decision should not be up to some busybody.
    As far as copy cats: nonsense. You can show a sane person 10,000 hours of GTA or Saving Private Ryan beach landings and it will have no effect.
    You can show an insane person a picture of a chipmunk and it may send them into a killing spree.
    Can’t spend your life tiptoeing around the insane or the busybodies.

  68. Not only did you post it, solely for ad revenue, but you posted THIS post as well talking about it, further adding to your clickthroughs.

    This site is, and always has been, purely aimed at ad revenue. That’s it.

    Classy.

  69. Of course you should have posted it, and in another month, bring it up again.

    One of the things that might have saved the reporter and her camera man was a little better situational awareness. Unbelievable that SomeA$$hole™ would be able to present and holster, while obviously fumbling his iphone in the other hand, for three to four seconds within her peripheral vision, without her picking up on it.

    Sorry to blame the victim, but a little more SA would save other victims, some day. If the StateRunMedia™ ever pulls its collective head out of its a$$ before its heart beats its brains out, maybe some day this lesson learned could be communicated. Ok, and unicorns will fart fairy dust, too.

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