Guns for Beginners: Be Polite, Be Friendly and Have a Plan to Kill Everyone You Meet

This undated booking photo provided by the Park County, Wyoming, Sheriffís Office shows Jesus Deniz Mendoza (A.K.A Jesus Deniz), age 18 of Worland, Wyo. suspected of shooting a family in Montana. The FBI confirmed two people were killed and a third injured Wednesday, July 29, near the town of Pryor on Montana's Crow Indian Reservation. (Park County, Wyoming, Sheriffís Office via AP)

There’s nothing wrong with being helpful to strangers in need. If a stranger needs assistance, all things being equal, render it. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. But even as you play good Samaritan, have a plan to defend yourself against unwarranted attack. Be ready to defend yourself. Not kill. Use your firearm or other methods – including running away – to stop the threat. Otherwise, this can happen [via news.yahoo.com] . . .

HELENA, Mont. (AP) — An 18-year-old Wyoming man accused of robbing and shooting three members of a family after asking for roadside help told investigators he opened fire after one of the victims laughed at him, an FBI agent said in a court filing Thursday.

Jason Shane, 51, and Tana Shane, 47, died in the Wednesday shooting in the small town of Pryor, FBI spokesman Todd Palmer told The Associated Press. Their daughter, 26-year-old Jorah Shane, was shot in the back when she tried to run away, and she is recovering in a Billings hospital, the woman’s aunt, Ada Shane, said.

The statement by Special Agent Larry McGrail II was filed in U.S. District Court seeking a murder warrant for Jesus Deniz, also known as Jesus Deniz Mendoza, of Worland, Wyoming.

Two FBI agents interviewed Deniz on Wednesday, and Deniz acknowledged shooting three people with a .22 caliber rifle and then driving away in their car, McGrail’s statement said.

“Deniz told the interviewing agents that he shot the victims because he was getting tired of waiting around, and because the daughter had laughed at him,” the statement said.

I’m assuming that Jesus actually had car trouble; that his roadside emergency wasn’t a ruse to lure unsuspecting victims to their doom. That this horrific crime wasn’t a homicidal carjacking. Either way, the wider point remains: if you decide to help a stranger, keep your guard up. Maintain situational awareness. If something seems wrong or odd about the situation, if the stranger seems “off,” listen to your instincts and disengage. Quickly. Politely.

The critical factor when meeting new and potentially dangerous folks (which all folks are to a greater or lesser extent): distance. No matter how well things are going when you first meet or talk to a stranger or strangers, keep your distance. The difference between standing three feet from someone and putting five feet between you and them can be the difference between life and death. As things warm-up, sure, move closer.

Or not. Your call. Bottom line: this aphorism is not about paranoia. It’s a about preparedness. Being aware that strangers may turn out to be a lethal threat, and having a plan to escape, avoid or attack them to stop the threat, doesn’t make you a bad person. It makes you a good person prepared to defend innocent life, by force of arms if necessary. In my eyes, that’s a noble thing. But it does require vigilance, sometimes more than others.

comments

  1. avatar Bob says:

    He has that mean-guy-stare-people-down look I have seen so many times in the past. Let me guess, he is well acquainted with the US criminal justice system.

    1. avatar Mecha75 says:

      He was out on bail for a prior burgulary arrest.

    2. avatar Don says:

      Situational awareness counts a lot more than caliber.
      They let their guard down and he killed them with a .22.

    3. avatar Philthegardner says:

      Let me guess, his REAL home address is somewhere south of the border…

    4. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      I picked up on that, too. I strongly suspect he’s what’s often referred to as “known to the police.”

  2. avatar Tominator says:

    Such a sad tale….

    I’m glad I’m getting old and pray that I’ll not live long enough to see the end of this once great country……

    It’s infected with Liberalism……only one way known to get rid of it….

    1. avatar nynemillameetuh says:

      That’s what’s wrong with America, a bunch of cuckservatives waiting to punch out rather than be the change they want to see in the world.

      1. avatar Deuce says:

        Go back to 4chan.

        1. avatar Uhhmerica says:

          @Deuce-
          9mm is factually correct by the state of our union and is just being honest when he said, “a bunch of cuckservatives waiting to punch out rather than be the change they want to see in the world.”

          The older generations forget that the policies they allowed passed in their lifetimes are what we are experiencing now. Reagen was only a good actor, and I like how he granted amnesty to criminals and appeased his business interests, exactly like what is going on now.

      2. avatar Tominator says:

        I lived in a time where one did not have to lock their car doors or even lock up their homes.

        MEN went to work and WOMEN stayed home to raise their kids. It is called a ‘family.’ Every person in it had a function that was not centered around the dollar we all now worship.

        Look at the mass killings of the unborn. Soulless individuals taking life at the drop of a hat.

        Yes, let me tell you a tale where government was run by local businessmen who were also part of the community and not life long politicians whose success or failure is measured by how many millions are in their reelection coffers.

        Neighbors helped neighbors. Family, God and GUTS made America…..and my guns will protect all three!

        Liberalism fails every time…..because it depends on money harvested from the masses using lies and deceit.

        This soul less individual should never have seen another day above ground. Punishment should be swift and final!

        1. avatar Uhhmerica says:

          @tominator
          “This soul less individual should never have seen another day above ground. Punishment should be swift and final!”
          100% in agreement on that punishment, but the judicial system that some of us have inherited is heavily geared towards crime being a renewable income stream for public and private business entities.

          “Yes, let me tell you a tale where government was run by local businessmen who were also part of the community and not life long politicians whose success or failure is measured by how many millions are in their reelection coffers.”

          That transformation was possible by the citizens being obsessed with material fabrics over moral fabric. It was a really simple pyramid scheme: Low class wants to be middle class, middle class wants to be the noble class. The Noble class was successful in paying for representatives to ensure the other classes stay where they belong.

          “Neighbors helped neighbors. Family, God and GUTS made America…..and my guns will protect all three!”

          Liberals were playing chess and the conservatives knew it was a chess game, but willingly chose to play checkers.
          Now with your :
          Neighbors- it is See something say something, or film them being harmed instead of stopping the harm out of fear of a homeowners claim.
          Family- is frowned upon unless teaching state servitude and revisionist history.
          God-Belief in God and his laws are a punishable offense in the court of public opinion, which now dictates legal prosecution.
          Guts-A nation of Comfortable Cowards that hope they don’t live long in what they allowed out of temporary security at the sacrifice of others.
          Guns-they were in the safe collecting dust, as inanimate objects don’t possess intestinal fortitude, bravery, or integrity.

        2. avatar Uhhmerica says:

          Post Script:

          The object of chess is to dominate your opponent with strategic moves, and checkers is marching towards one side being satisfied with possessing no other skill than saying king me.

      3. avatar Hotel California says:

        Ha ha….c*ckservatives! I think Ghandi would have liked that!

  3. avatar Gunr says:

    There have been a few times when strangers have come too close. I always do the same thing, put my hand in my pocket, and wrap my grubby fingers around the little 22 magnum, that’s always there.

  4. avatar Removed_californian says:

    Maddog Mattis 2016

    1. avatar Anon in CT says:

      Marine ‘Emotionally Exhausted’ By Having To Plan To Kill Everyone He Meets

      July 27, 2015

      QUANTICO, Va. — Lance Cpl. Matt Bennet was admitted to Naval Medical Clinic Quantico with “emotional exhaustion” today after breaking down from the strain of “having a plan to kill everyone he meets,” according to sources in Bennet’s platoon.

      “Like all real Marines, Bennet reveres Gen. [James] Mattis,” according to Bennet’s company commander, Capt. J.D. Maurer. “He takes the general’s orders, instructions and advice extremely seriously.”

      “As do we all,” he added. “For instance, if I need to kill Bennet, I’m going to send him on a night march, and get him with a Claymore as he clears the tree line.”

      According to fellow Marines, Bennet began the planning last summer at a Denny’s in Stafford, Va.

      “My platoon sergeant gave me 60 seconds to explain my plan to kill the waitress, the bus boy, and the short order cook,” Bennet said. “And it was easy.”

      Read more: http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/07/marine-plan-to-kill-everyone-he-meets/#ixzz3hcCDl39n

      1. avatar Al says:

        Wow, that was eye opening! I thought it was a April fools joke article, actually I still not sure it isn’t.

        I wanted it to be a joke so I could laugh at the Marine trying to decide if he had to make a plan to kill the animals in the zoo, and whether or not the caged animals counted, or just the petting zoo animals.

        Thankfully it was all planning and no action.

        1. avatar Irish1776 says:

          Seriously? It is definitely satire.

          Duffelblog.com is like the Onion, except it mimics a military news publication. It is actually quite entertaining.

        2. avatar ThomasR says:

          Dude! That piece was so funny I was crying from laughing so hard.

          You can’t tell the writer, called Dark Laughter, is writing satire?

  5. avatar actionphysicalman says:

    If he was that tired of just waiting around on the road, I imagine that prison is going to be a a real challenge for him

  6. avatar Ralph says:

    Take a look at that sorry looking excuse for a human being. Sorry, but I wouldn’t stop to help someone who looked like that if he was stuck inside a Rolls Royce.

    1. avatar Removed_californian says:

      ^this

      Not trying to blame the victims here but sometimes it’s okay to discriminate against who you help. Like you said, just a bit too shady to help IMO, regardless of what he is driving.

    2. avatar John L. says:

      As my mother used to say, you can’t choose your face. But you can change your expression.

  7. avatar MarkPA says:

    The reality today is that it is reasonable to assume that everyone has a cell-phone. If they are stopped by the side of the road, why didn’t they call for help? Forgot cell phone? Dead battery? Out of range? Or, is this a hijacking about to happen?

    Single woman who looks distressed? How can I be sure there isn’t a thug behind the tree line?

    If I’m armed I might take a chance of defending myself. If I’m not armed, why should I take a chance. The difference between these two is most likely to be controlled by the State:
    – I have to run errands in GFZs so I disarm for the entire trip; or,
    – I have to travel through a Won’t-Issue State where I can’t get a permit.

    Thank you – Oh Great State – for leaving these people to their own devices when they don’t have a working cell phone. The police will take care of them.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Good questions about cell phones. IDK the answer, but I do know that the people who were shot are Crow Indians and this happened on the Res, so maybe there was no reception.

      1. avatar GayGunOwner says:

        Ralph,
        Seemed odd to me that local LEO didn’t handle the matter, but perhaps a crime that crosses reservation boundaries is treated as if a state line were crossed. Would that explain the involvement of the FBI?

        in any case, tragic event.

        1. avatar Ralph says:

          Crimes on the Res are under the jurisdiction of Tribal Police because it’s Indian sovereign territory, but the Major Crimes Act of 1885 gives the feds jurisdiction of very serious crimes such as murder, kidnapping etc.

        2. avatar Cody says:

          I had a discussion with a local agent about this recently. He explained the tribal police generally bow out on rapes and murders and turn them over.

        3. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

          The federal Major Crimes Act of 1885 applies if the actor and victim are both Indians. I don’t know if the case law has extended this to a non-native killing natives on reservation land.

          That said, the record of the Feds in applying the law on reservations is very spotty, at best.

    2. avatar NoID says:

      As someone who has been stranded out of town and also in freezing temperatures, I now carry a roadside assistance kit, water, food, fuel, first aid everywhere in my car and I stop for nearly every car I see stuck on the side of the road. Most people don’t need help, some do (I’m amazed how many people run out of gas by sheer ignorance of their gage…), but not one of them has been ungrateful. And none have tried to kill me.

      That said, I still carry a gun and a blunt force weapon, and a knife in my car at all times, for all the reasons stated above.

    3. avatar Roymond says:

      Nearly half the miles I regularly drive aren’t covered by cell service. That includes sections of numbered U.S. highways.

  8. avatar Mk10108 says:

    An illegal, sanctioned by the Feds kills because the Mexican culture calls murder…just doing business.

    Keep bringing illegals in, and the government triad stays employed at the people’s expense an lives.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      That’s not Mexican culture. That’s the culture that we are importing from Mexico. There’s a difference.

      I’ve done a lot of business in Mexico and vacationed there more times than I can count. The Mexican people are among the nicest, hardest working people on Earth. But what’s coming into the US today is comparable to the Mariel Boatlift. Mexico is offloading its scum onto our soil, and our government is begging for more.

    2. avatar Grindstone says:

      An illegal, sanctioned by the Feds kills because the Italian culture calls murder…just doing business.

      FTFY

    3. avatar Al says:

      It occured to me today while reading about the unteenth possible illegal killing someone that in the old cowboy movies if you were an outlaw in the US you fled to Mexico. But today if you are a criminal in Mexico you flee to the USA.

      I know and have worked with many Mexicans and they have been great hard working people. I have no problem with them. I do have a problem with giving a pass to criminals and people coming here to cause mischief. Actually I have a problem with people from the US doing crimes also.

      All this to corrupt the 2016 election.

  9. avatar ThomasR says:

    Gotta listen to your gut. And have a gun. Most people that were interviewed after an attack/assault/robbery etc. of some kind reported that they knew/felt something was wrong before the attack happened, but they didn’t listen to that inner voice when they saw the predator approaching.

    1. avatar Chris T from KY says:

      They don’t want you to listen to your inner voice. They call it racial profiling. That is how they get people to let their guard down and make them feel guilty because it’s wrong to be cautious in the perverted liberal world.

  10. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    Very sad-and this mexican “boy” (sure looks like hell for being 18) deserved to be laughed at. RE the thugs waiting-I have seen this very thing in the city(of Chicago). Horrible you get killed for helping a low-life thug…it looks like a sure death penalty but we know it won’t happen.

    1. avatar Mister Fleas says:

      Yeah, this DREAMER is no teenager.

  11. avatar JWM says:

    I don’t know. Maybe if he covered his lop sided head with a hat, helmet or hockey mask he wouldn’t get laughed at.

    1. avatar ShiningKnight says:

      I was thinking the same thing! ROFL!

  12. avatar Nate says:

    Anyone else wondering why the FBI is handling this one and not the Montana Highway Patrol? I know armed car robbery was made a federal law but this seams like a stretch for the FBI to take interest unless Montana didn’t have the resources…just seams odd.

    1. avatar JWM says:

      Somebody mentioned the crime happened on a reservation. Might make it Federal.

      1. avatar actionphysicalman says:

        Yeah, it was on the Crow reservation.

      2. avatar Ralph says:

        It happened on the Crow Res. Serious crimes on the Res, like murder, come under Federal jurisdiction. Lesser crimes are under the jurisdiction of the tribe.

        1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

          Serious crimes come under the jurisdiction of the tribe as well. Many just prefer to turn the issue over to the FBI/DOJ because the tribes lack the money for the forensic lab, training investigators, etc to make the case stick.

  13. avatar Gs650g says:

    We should bring back public execution and put it on pay per view. Let’s start with this guy.

    1. avatar ShiningKnight says:

      Amen!!

      1. avatar Gunr says:

        Bring back the guillotine! For this guy, dull the blade, and only raise it maybe half way. Three or four “chops” ought to do the job!

    2. avatar Ralph says:

      Put an execution on PPV? They’d have to sell tickets for an event that won’t happen for 20 years.

  14. avatar Chris T from KY says:

    Is there anyone still saying that a 22 caliber weapon is worthless or not effective?
    For those who don’t know the only caliber rifle a mexican citizen can legally own is a 22 caliber.

    Our federal government wants a high level of violence in society. When you give up the idea of helping a stranger for fear of being attacked then the government will eventually become the source of “help” for all your needs and wants.
    This is already the case in the welfare inner city.

    1. avatar Galtha58 says:

      @T from KY: Except that the LEOs usually only get there in time to clean up the mess but never in time to stop a crime from happening. So, the government has tricked us into thinking that they are the help we need when they are far from that most of the time. In the meantime they make new laws to take away our main means of defending ourselves.

    2. avatar Ralph says:

      At close range, the .22LR kills, especially head shots from a rifle.

    3. avatar actionphysicalman says:

      I thought that they could own up to .380 autos and .38 spc revolvers. I lived there for 5 years and saw a few.

      1. avatar ThomasR says:

        They can’t legally own weapons that shoot common military calibers.

        That’s why pistols that shoot the .38 super are common among the public but not 9mm’s.

        .22lr’s and not AR’s .

  15. avatar nynemillameetuh says:

    You’ll see a lot more roadside folk (hitchhikers or beggars) in the West than anywhere else. The best policy is to ignore them and keep on going. It costs nothing to ignore one and can cost everything to help one. You’re better off doing good for people you know and trust.

  16. avatar Galtha58 says:

    If I saw someone in distress, beside the highway, I would probably just use my cell phone to call it in to 911. Then let them handle it. Why put yourself at risk ? Let the LEOs do what they are paid to do. As they cannot be there to stop a crime most of the time they may as well do something like check this guy out, to earn their pay. Not my job, sorry. Too much freaky stuff going on in the world for me to stop and help. Even if I am packing it is taking an unwarranted risk to stop.

  17. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    OK, since I live in Wyoming and am reasonably close to the Crow Reservation, I’m going to dispel some myths for people here.

    1. You should NEVER assume that state law applies on a res. NEVER. The reservations are their own sovereign nations, and they are not bound to recognize state laws except where they agree to do so. Getting pulled over and whipping out a CCW issued by a state (whether MT or another state) when you’re on a back road or reservation property might not get you the results you want.

    Good luck getting a written list of the state statutes and regulations to which they agree. NEVER assume your CCW is worth the paper or plastic on which it is printed when you’re within a res.

    2. Almost all legal issues you might run into on a res will not be heard in any state court. You’ll be dealing with either the reservation court, the BIA or the FBI & DOJ. Some tribes will defer to the FBI/DOJ on big felonies (rape, murder, major arson, etc). Getting popped for having a handgun where you’re not supposed to is one the tribal police will likely handle, because it needs little in the way of forensics and evidence from labs.

    3. NEVER assume you’ll have cell coverage on a res in the west. Many of these reservations are huge tracts of land, with mountainous features that create huge dead areas. In the Pryor area, most carriers don’t work. Been there, seen that. Verizon sorta-kinda does. AT&T is marginal, at best, and several other urban carriers are worthless. There are huge areas of the west where most urban carriers (Spring, T-Mobile, etc) don’t work, AT&T is marginal and Verizon is your best bet, but is also marginal. Central Nevada, central Utah, southwest Wyoming, northeast Wyoming, north central New Mexico, eastern Colorado, eastern Idaho, central Montana, western Montana, and mountain areas in any/all of the above – will have large dead areas, depending on your carrier. Assuming that you (or someone stranded) will have cell service is a foolish bet. I’ll take that bet for even money when I see you driving an urban vehicle in any of the above areas.

    4. When you’re on a res, behave yourself. Some reservations ban the importation of alcohol – don’t be caught with a six-pack. Don’t be smoking pot and getting drunk on a res if you don’t live there or have family that lives there. Some reservations are huge open range areas. This means their livestock are not fenced in – they must be fenced out of whatever area you want them kept out of. This means that you can run into horses, cows, sheep, goats, etc on a road with a posted 65 to 70 MPH speed limit. Hitting a cow at 55+ MPH is a bad idea, mmmmkay? It’s a lethal idea to hit a horse at 55+ MPH, even in a one-ton pickup. They tend to come up and over the hood in lethal manner. Hitting livestock at night is a much worse idea.

    Now, if you hit livestock on a res, you’re going to have to pay for it. I don’t give a rat’s rear end what happened to your car. No one but you is going to help pay for what happened to your car in any open range area in the west, and this is doubly true on a res. When you see a sign that says “open range,” you’d better put down your Big Gulp, cell phone, etc and start paying attention.

    If you hit livestock: You’re in another legal system than the state or federal law you’re used to. You’d better pay up, or otherwise they can make a much larger deal about the issue if they wish. Cows start at about $1K, and horses start at $3K and go up.

    So, let’s sum up: If you get pulled over on a res, and you’re not an enrolled member of the tribe, here’s what to do:

    1. Be polite.
    2. Admit nothing.
    3. Don’t go spouting law from “outside.”
    4. If you need a lawyer, get one who is familiar with the tribal laws & regulations. I don’t care if you’re a lawyer who graduated at the top of Harvard/Yale law school class. Your knowledge is worth SFA on the res. You’re not in Kansas any more, Dorothy.

    If you’re packing a handgun, stay on the interstates through reservations. The law you’ll run into there will likely be the surrounding state highway patrol. If you’re going to get on the back roads inside a reservation, you need to learn the tribal law. Most of the tribes in the west have very different and very restrictive laws on carrying handguns, knives, etc. On the Crow res, I’ll pull out my carry piece and make sure it is either visible, or locked up.

    Here’s the Crow Tribal laws pertaining to weapons:

    http://www.indianlaw.mt.gov/content/crow/codes/title_08b.pdf

    Search for “8B-8-301” and start reading. Then back up and read the rest of the codes. NB how minor the penalties are for rape, murder, etc. NB that the penalty is the same for murder as for rustling cattle.

    Now, with respect to the perp in the original article: He’s a legal immigrant (according to DHS), and is from Worland, WY. Worland is a farming town of about 4500 people. The local press is notable for interviewing people who know the perp, and many of those people are putting distance between the perp and themselves. This is telling.

    1. avatar GayGunOwner says:

      Thanks for taking the time to detail matters.

    2. avatar Stuki Moi says:

      Thanks a million……. I truly mean that.

    3. avatar Mister Fleas says:

      Thanks for the information.

      The Indian reservations seem like good places to stay away from.

    4. avatar Wood says:

      Lots of good info DG,as usual; thanks for taking the time. You should consider writing articles for the blog on a regular basis.

  18. avatar Eric says:

    Why is this not a hate crime? I don’t get it. If it was a white man killing a “brown” person, i couldn’t change a channel without seeing it on the news. It really sucks to be white and middle class. I will continue to look out for number one.

    1. avatar Stuki Moi says:

      “Why is this not a hate crime?”
      Because “Hate Crime” is a fictitious, meaningless, invention. Like everything progressives have been told to hold near and dear.

      1. avatar Wood says:

        Because it doesn’t fit the narrative. It’s not white on black/minority crime.

        1. avatar GayGunOwner says:

          Nothing in the narrative that I’ve read suggests a hate crime. But a hate crime seems to be the case in another reservation related murder at a detox center: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/us/wyoming-native-american-killing/

          The Mathew Sheppard murder in Wyoming spawned the 2009 Sheppard & Burke Hate Crime Prevention Act, a play (The Laramie Project), and a non-profit to combat anti-gay hatred (Mathew Sheppard Foundation). Many, regardless of sexual orientation, still believe the Sheppard hate crime narrative.

          But it’s false. Sheppard was a male prostitute and drug addict. Two separate books (authored by respected investigative journalists who just happen to be gay) came to the same conclusion. Sheppard and his killers were gay and had sex between each other. See http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/14/matthew-shepard-murder-wyoming-book

          A need to believe in victimization and oppression is present among some – truth doesn’t seem to change opinions. I’ve been accused of being anti-gay when pointing out the false narrative in Sheppard’s murder – likely because most assume I’m straight.

          Bias exists and will likely continue to exist. Although I’ve been subject to it, I’m reluctant to support hate crime legislation as existing laws (murder, assault, etc.) seem adequate.

          Anyone know where that’s not the situation?

      2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        Because “hate” crimes are a figment of progressive/liberal imagination, where a white male is the aggressor against one of their protected “minority groups.”

        1. avatar Hotel California says:

          Are you serious? A “figment” of the progressive imagination? I’m pretty sure the families of the 9 victims killed recently in Charleston, S.C. would disagree with you. Black people being shot down in their house of worship by a white male, who readily admitted his crime was racially motivated, is a hate crime and even your fellow Republicans have trouble denying that with a straight face.

        2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

          And what of all the attacks on whites by blacks that are racially motivated, hmmm?

          The problem with “hate” crimes is that to prosecute them presumes to know the state of mind of the criminal at the time of the attack. In very few instances is that in clear evidence. The law should be color blind, and towards that end, let’s get out of the business of trying to criminalize intent, and just deal with the facts.

          “Hate” crimes legislation is just another manner in which liberals want to feel really, really, really good about themselves. I put it into the same category of idiotic nonsense as curbside recycling and buying organic produce.

        3. avatar Yellow Devil says:

          @ HotelCA

          Seriously? If you can’t charge someone with an already existing crime, having a “hate crime” charge isn’t going to do you that much better. I laughed when I heard they tacked on hate crime charges to that little thug gunman who killed the nine black churchgoers. I doubt it’s going to make a difference in his trial one way or another.

          Hate crime charges are generally unnecessary, and are just there so that prosecutors can stack charges.

  19. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    Build the wall now.
    No amnesty.
    English is the official language.

    1. avatar Stuki Moi says:

      Dude. The guy is from Wyoming. Not everyone named Jesus who speak a different language than English, is a bad guy….

      1. avatar Mister Fleas says:

        He’s not from Wyoming, he’s from Mexico. He only came here in 2013.

      2. avatar Chris Mallory says:

        If they are in my country, then yes they are bad guys.

        1. avatar Stuki Moi says:

          Didn’t know you had a country that is yours. You should post a sign at the border: Jesus not welcome here. Until he starts speaking English.

  20. avatar gsnyder says:

    If you are armed the intent is not to kill someone in the event of attack. The reason you carry is to spur conversation by showing your assailant you have something in common with them. Talking guns is your pastime and theirs too. A great way to make a new friend.

  21. avatar Wood says:

    I have 4 kids under the age of 4. If any of my kids are with me, I’m not stopping unless I know the person on the side of the road. If not, well…. circumstances will dictate.

  22. avatar Chris Mallory says:

    Just another diverse vibrant committing the murders that white Americans won’t.

    We need to start deporting anyone whose ancestors were not here in 1800.

  23. avatar CoolBreeze says:

    If you are “in trouble and need help”, 99 out of 100, you put yourself there. You therefore are a danger to yourself and most likely anyone who gets involved with you. If I come to your aid, will it alter your future life choices or reinforce your self destructive behavior? What of my life and treasure should I risk to find out. Why would I?

  24. avatar Hotel California says:

    For those of you that believe this should have been considered a “hate crime”…..do the world a favor and educate yourselves. “A hate crime is usually defined by state law as one that involves threats, harassment, or physical harm and is motivated by prejudice against someone’s race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, sexual orientation or physical or mental disability”. Although heinous, this was NOT a hate crime and calling it one makes light of the real hate crimes that are staining the reputation of this good country we live in. Get a clue.

    1. avatar Wood says:

      I don’t dispute the definition, but that’s not how the other team plays.

    2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      How do you know it wasn’t? Were you there? Did you hear what the perp said? Do you know why the perp was in the middle of Crow lands?

      No, we don’t. Two of the three people who were in conversation with the perp are now dead. It could have been the guy wanted to kill Indians, for some previous slight. It has happened before in this area. But you don’t know that, which is about as much as most “hate” crimes prosecution has in evidence when they bring the charge.

      Which is why the whole “hate” crime appellation and code should be abolished.

      This perp killed two people. It doesn’t matter what his motivations were or are. It is enough that he was (a) 18 years of age, making him an adult and able to stand trial as an adult, (b), he’s admitted that he shot the three people and stole their car. Sounds pretty open-n-shut at this point.

      1. avatar Hotel California says:

        So what is it exactly that’s happened in that area before? Hate crimes? Sounds like you are admitting hate crimes do in fact take place and that they are NOT a figment of anyone’s imagination. But, nevertheless, let’s go ahead and abolish hate crime legislation because it’s difficult to prosecute. By that same token, let’s get rid of sexual assault legislation too…..without DNA evidence, rape and sexual assaults of all kinds are extremely difficult to prosecute.

    3. avatar CoolBreeze says:

      Yeah!! Cuz hate crimes are like way badder than … Not-hate crimes. And stuff.

      1. avatar Hotel California says:

        Actually, they are. Hate crimes contribute to the break down of peaceful race relations, gender relations, religious tolerance etc., which in turn contributes to the break down of society in general. Or am I wrong on that? Please educate me on this matter.

        1. avatar CoolBreeze says:

          No, you explain how a person’s skin color, gender, religion qualifies him for another layer of “justice”. If this is so, then there is no equality. Is that what you are purporting?

        2. avatar Fuque says:

          You actually buy into the hate crimes BS?. Exercising A little critical thinking can go a long way in grounding a person who is caught up in the hype and melodramatics of MSM.

        3. avatar Roymond says:

          @CoolBreeze–
          Special protection by reason of being persecuted merely for who you are ensures equality, it does not deny it. The essence of a hate crime is the denial that the victim is actually equal, even actually a human being. It is genocide writ small, and the only way to make sure that no group can be the victim of genocide is to stomp hard on any action with that motivation.

  25. avatar CoolBreeze says:

    I’m still waiting for an explanation, Mr. Hotel. Perhaps the Hotel is vacant?

  26. avatar Hotel California says:

    Any part of our population that is vulnerable to injustice and violence due to their race, age, gender, sexual orientation should be protected in any society that has documented history of persecuting people in these groups. If you are going to deny that certain groups of people are not more vulnerable than others, then go back and repeat 8th grade history.

    1. avatar Roymond says:

      Except that hate crime laws which only protect those who belong to previously persecuted groups is an invitation to some to persecute those not so classed. For example, if some civilian disarmament proponents attacked the car of a GOA representative merely because he was carrying and speaking publicly in favor of open carry, that should be as much a hate crime as attacking someone because of being Jewish or gay or Crow or whatever.

  27. avatar Roymond says:

    I keep looking at this guy’s picture and thinking of the situation a kid I’ve been trying to help is in: he’s trying to kick meth, has been clean for two months. The authorities know what coming off meth does to people, but there are no resources to help U.S. citizens with that transition because we are wasting resources on criminals invading the country like parasites. So the kid who is trying hard gets thrown back in jail when meth withdrawal kicks him into an anger episode because we care about U.S. citizens less than the trash slopping over our borders.

    1. avatar GayGunOwner says:

      Roymond,

      Thank you for attempting to help. If you haven’t already, please consider resources such as Alanon or groups for friends and families of alcoholics / addicts. Addiction takes a terrible toll on the addict, but also on those that care for him or her.

      Not sure where you’re located. Help may be available but not readily apparent. There are also free online resources and free one-on-one help via Skype for those that lack access to recovery groups.

      Dan and Robert have my email address and happy to assist. Please have one of them forward your email address if interested.

    2. avatar Hotel California says:

      @Roymond: Your comments regarding the legitimacy of hate crime legislation are very well put, however, using terms like “parasites” and “trash” to refer to other human beings is the kind of objectification of other groups of people that is at the very core of a hate crime. Criminals are made up of all races and ethnicities, regardless of their migratory status and they should be kept far from people they can hurt. But, millions of undocumented people are here in search of survival and perhaps it would be a better use of your time to question not the “parasite” but the host instead. These “parasites” work in our factories, hotels and restaurants because there are hosts that take advantage of illegal employment practices. Anyone who doesn’t want these “parasites” inside the U.S. should put their money where their mouth is and cease partaking in any services that are provided with the sweat of undocumented workers.

  28. avatar Hotel California says:

    @Fuque and anyone else who believes that the concept of hate crime is a bunch of B.S. and nothing but the hype of the MSM. Open up your eyes, hate crime is on a small scale the same as genocide and ethnic cleansing. There is no way anyone can deny that these crimes exist. The Holocaust, Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur…..these atrocities actually took place. Thousands of people dying is not about buying into the hype of MSM. Denying hate crimes exist is more about buying into the propaganda that “news” networks like FOX spew and then watch people gobble up like hungry, uneducated children.

    1. avatar Yellow Devil says:

      Then you prosecute for the actual crime of genocide and mass killing. I could give two craps less about what their intention was.

      And yes, Hate Crime is by and large, B.S. It devalues the bigger issue at hand, and it gives the political class a false hope they can just stamp out hatred through legislation. If this political enforced groupthink actually worked, then the Communists government would have been able to eradicate longstanding religious and ethnic in their perspective countries. Yet when the Iron Curtain fell, these same areas fell apart along the same longstanding grievances. I don’t need to get in the manner different tribes of Africans treat one another in Africa of all places.

    2. avatar GayGunOwner says:

      Hotel,
      I’ve been a “hate crime” victim – only it was before legislation was passed designating a behavior as such.

      I don’t see any on TTAG denying that hate crimes exist, but questioning that the *category* should exist from a legal standpoint. Murder is murder, assault is assault, and arson is arson.

      I previously responded to you asking why a ‘hate crime’ designation makes sense – still don’t recall seeing your response. AFAIK, a hate crime enhancement has not made any difference in violence reduction. It certainly didn’t in the case the 16-year old girl knifed at a gay pride parade in Israel a few days ago. She died yesterday from the wounds. The ultra-conservative male assailant had been recently released after serving a 10 year sentence for a similar act.

      So tell me: what crimes go unpunished without a hate crime label? How does a hate crime designation reduce crime? Didn’t work in Charleston.

      In my case, the effective deterrent was an immediate kick in my assailant’s groin followed by a face punch that I’m pretty sure broke his nose – I could feel the crunch. His buddies ran off with homophobic name-calling bravado.

      What often seems the case is that a DA, in an attempt to pander to a minority community, adds a hate crime designation. Or an incident is decried by a politician. I see a hate crime designation as burnishing the image of elected officials, but having no practical impact otherwise.

      For this reason, I see no reason to support the designation. Contrary views?

  29. avatar Don says:

    Never seen a crime of violence perpetrated by someone that liked the victim. All crimes of violence are hate crimes. Seeking special status for crimes perpetrated against a particular group only serves to further separate and sensationalize these groups creating more and more minority groups under the false narrative of equality. True equality can only be achieved (If in fact it ever can be) through eliminating separation and special treatment of any delineated group. We tried separate but equal remember? That didn’t work out well.

Write a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

button to share on facebook
button to tweet
button to share via email