3-american-civil-war-battle-photo-researchers

Since 1855, the U.S. political scene has been divided between Democrats and Republicans. While there’s no question which party works harder to degrade and destroy Americans’ natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms, I reckon the two-party political divide is a distinction without a difference. Both sides are part of the same political establishment. Maintaining the status quo – the system itself – is job one. Ideology is a merely a means to that end. A more fundamental fracture in the body politic lies beneath the surface . . .

It’s the gulf between citizens who believe in Big Government and those who favor small government. Those who want government to sort sh*t out and those who want the government to GTFO.

As the recent decisions on Obamacare and gay marriage illustrate, Big Government believers have champions in the President, the Supreme Court and the entirety of the political establishment, including every government agency in existence, Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush and the rest of the faux Conservatives seeking a seat at the table of power and/or a lease on Air Force One. Small government supporters have . . . Ted Cruz? Rick Perry? No one, really.

No surprise there. People who want a radically limited government are not a prize demographic. Though large in number, they’re politically disengaged. Why participate in a system that never listens to your desire to reduce the size of the system? Look at our national debt. Consider The Great Society’s never-ending, staggeringly ineffective welfare waterfall. Check your tax bill. Small government supporters have been losing for a long, long time.

I don’t need to tell TTAG’s Armed Intelligentsia that Big Government is the enemy of freedom. American gun owners have lost their Constitutional right to keep and bear arms without government infringement over decades. The National Firearms Act of 1934, the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Brady Bill of 1993 are all clear violations of the Second Amendment. Not to mention thousands of local and state gun control laws, some historic, some recent.

This loss of gun rights is part of the larger trend of expanding government interference in all aspects of American life. Thankfully, it’s not happening everywhere. Some states are restoring gun rights, just as some states are returning to solid fiscal principles of balanced budgets and low[er] taxes. They’re hardly shining examples of limited government, but they’re at least holding steady against government encroachment and incipient tyranny. (Yes, I used the “t” word.)

America is, once again, two Americas: states that are [relatively] freedom-loving and [somewhat] laissez-faire vs. states that are endlessly intrusive and mindlessly invasive. Never mind the party split. Never forget that Ronald Reagan expanded the federal government exponentially, and signed gun control laws without a qualm. More than that, there are plenty of Big Government types in red states, and limited government lovers “trapped behind enemy lines.”

On its face this divide is OK, the states being the “laboratories of democracy” and all. Truth be told, Uncle Sam is the real problem. The federal bloat in power and reach and cost has been stupendous. Monumental. Practically inconceivable. How do you get your head around the fact that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives – an agency elevated by the aforementioned President Reagan without a justifiable raison d’etre – has a $1.2 billion dollar budget?

Make no mistake: the federal government is on an ongoing irreversible collision course with “don’t tread on me” style states, and [the mostly rural] and inhabitants of other states who adhere to the limited government philosophy. The ever-expanding federal government and its supporters in states like California, New York and Massachusetts have turned limited government types into the proverbial frog in the pot of water slowly moving towards boiling point.

These two approaches to government cannot coexist forever. There will be a showdown.

I believe the fight over gun rights will be the flashpoint. At some point, most likely (but not necessarily) following a series of terrorist attacks, Big Government will move to “win” the gun rights battle. To establish its authority once and for all. The Bundy Ranch confrontation foreshadows that fateful day. As does Waco and Ruby Ridge and the internment of Japanese Americans.

I have no idea how or when it will play out. Privately owned guns will be involved. It won’t be pretty and it won’t be resolved quickly. I do not wish for that day. The vast majority of freedom-loving Americans do not, either. But not even America can be two things at once. Despite our beloved tradition of democracy, history tells us that politics is the problem, not the solution. Am I wrong?

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289 Responses to Random Thoughts About the Possibility of a Second Civil War

      • The Civil War was a revolutionary war and the Revolutionary War, at least in the South where it was won, was a civil war.
        At Kings Mountain, there was only one soldier from England…and he didn’t return. I don’t think there were any Brits at Musgrove’s Mill. Unsure of Brits at Cowpens but I think there were more American-born Loyalists than Brits.

        • History and composition of the armies aside, I think it’s more accurate, and definitely more desirable, to call the coming struggle a revolution. The Progs will be working hard enough to paint Americans as racist southern rebels fighting to maintain “privilege.” No need to help them do it.

        • My understanding is there were a few at Cowpens that had become caught behind the lines by simply getting lost.

    • Sadly, and for the foreseeable future, it doesn’t look like we’ll be voting our way out of this predicament. Staggering debt, a stark cultural divide, abandonment of the rule of law, petty bureaucrats sticking their noses in everybody’s business, an ever expanding welfare state, and a host of other fundamental problems (some soluble, some not), does not bode well for the Republic. That which can’t go on forever won’t. It does look like we’re heading to a major inflection point and probably sooner rather than later. Fasten your seat belts ladies and gentlemen, it looks like we’re in for a very turbulent ride.

      A little food for thought; there’s a chart up over at Sipsey Street showing the number of firearms in civilian hands in the USA. The ATF seems to think that number is around 347 million. Draw your own conclusions. The source is our own Dean Weingarten over at GunWatch.

    • No, it’s about Bruce Jenner claiming to be a woman while he still has a piece between his legs. /sarc

      • Even if Jenner had his johnson chopped off, and replaced with an artificial gopher hole, he’d still have his XY chromosomes. THOSE CANNOT be changed.

  1. Americans are by and large a peaceful people, no matter their age and lifestyle. Many young American males have embraced an effeminate lifestyle. New arrivals will sell their soles for a government handout. So who will be there to resist?

    Oh yeah, there are tough guys. They will join the military or the police and will be soldiers for the slave masters.

    No, there will not be a civil war, or even massive resistance. But there will be sporadic acts that remind the all-powerful state that there still is something called “freedom.” Ask Bill Ayers.

      • Ha Ha Ralph. I’ve never been able to get anyone to buy my old soles. In fact, I have to PAY for new ones every so often.

        • I didn’t know shoe repair shops were even open anymore, but I saw Sunday that my priest had his shoes half-soled.

          I used to pay less than $5 for that. I don’t know what they charge now. I paid $14 once (okay, it was 1976) to have my Tony Lamas almost completely remade. It’s hard to break a boot, but I wore those things everywhere for about five years.

        • a common myth that brings comfort to 350 pound bubba’s. Supposedly 3% of the colonists were all it took to overthrow british rule in the revolution. While boots on the ground may have been 3% it took a lot more to keep those boots supplied and equiped.

          And the myth completely ignores all the supplies and equipment that france sent to the colonies. And an army. And a fleet.

          Continental regulars wore blue because that was the color of uniform the French sent. And the French musket influenced the US so much that all of our smoothbore long guns, from flint to percussion, were .69 caliber. Same as the french musket.

        • I always thought that the .69 caliber was chosen because Americans throughout the ages have dirty, dirty minds.

        • And the French musket influenced the US so much that all of our smoothbore long guns, from flint to percussion, were .69 caliber. Same as the french musket.

          Just a side note – but it makes perfect sense that the french would use a .69 caliber.

        • 3% was the percentage of the colonial population that rose up to start the Revolution… NOT the percentage that fought and won it, as the “it is a myth” folk claim…

          It took 3% to rise and enbolden others to do the same… least that is the claim…

    • One of the biggest problems that I see is a government who spends more than it takes in to pay for all of the Socialist programs and building up of our military that almost everyone seems to think is OK. This cannot go on and will be the ruination of our country if not fixed. More taxes, fewer programs, downsizing of our military, getting other countries to pay for our military help with their problem. These are just a few ideas off the top of my head. I am sure that someone with more brains than me can come up with more ideas. But, if this issue is not resolved it will mean the end of America and the world will be worse off without us standing guard and helping everyone out. Helping them out, I should add, with borrowed money from China.

    • There may be another one someday but we’ll need a couple generations under tyranny first and with technology the new tyranny will be softer , NSA stuff . People will gladly replace God with an app as they already are . No need to pray for rain for our crops or dry weather for planting , just look at the 7 day forecast , we don’t need God , the world government and technology will protect us . We have everything we need on our smart phones . This independence stuff is full hardy . We don’t need to even hunt for our food or plant food , the supermarket will have all we need . Most gun owners would probably trade in their guns if their smart phone just had an app for protection , it’s probably coming . There is no need for a civil war . The electrical grid and the digital cloud are forever . The new God .

    • Actually you’re wrong about the statement implying only those willing to do anything will join the military and police forces enforcing the “big government” side. I know this because I am a vet, I know what other vets think and a majority of us are well aware of our oath regarding enemies foreign and domestic. I have also spent a lot of time around law enforcement and I get an overwhelming impression that they too are aware that they uphold The Constitution first. And this is coming from conversations with fellow vets and law enforcement about this very topic.

      • Talk is cheap, but actions tell the true story. How many LEOs engage in blatantly unconstitutional practices such as no-knock raids and civil asset forfeiture, or enforce tyrannical laws as part of the War of Drugs, NFA etc? And not only that, but loudly resist when their powers are threatened? Perhaps they are the minority, but they are supported by the silent majority that watches their colleagues without stopping them or speaking out.

  2. The Bundy ranch episode really got me thinking about the tensions in America, hundreds of people, some drove across several states, to face down government agents over some old guys cows. Later on reflection I realized that the people who loaded up and converged on Bundy ranch were probably the most extreme examples of right-wing extremists, and they were unwilling shoot first. So I don’t think we’re ready for civil war 2 .

    • Don’t count on that… At Bundy Ranch a “Shot heard round the World” could EASILY have set off a second Civil War.
      Even if it was an AD of someone reholstering their weapon…

    • Bundy Ranch was to the point that the feds had occupied what was essentially a kill zone while the militia occupied the high ground. The snipers had their targets picked and were waiting for a gunshot to sound. The most represented military service in the militia were marines. Both sides had roughly equivalent fire-power because for some reason the feds left their air and armor somewhere else.

      One AD and we’d be in the middle of a civil war right now.

      • Sorry Lowell but after a few agents were killed and a few militia killed there would have been the standoff for sides too cool , the media would have figured out how to convince most of America and the world that it was crazy nuts against a over reaching government , top story for a few days or weeks , weapons would have been laid down , a few arrest , a few prosecutions and just like that everyone would have been glued to their TV and smart phones waiting to see Bruce Jenner’s new boobs and what beautiful dress heshe had chosen for the prom . Most people it seems just want the newest techno toy to play with to take their mind off of reality . Reality is , not enough people give a crap and when SHTF there are going to be a lot of people doing the Katrina shuffle . It will eventually be every man for themselves . You better form your alliances now and have a plan because people aren’t prepared for what’s coming like they were in the 17th century . In the 1850’s nearly 90% of families were partially self sufficient and could survive and did survive on their own merits and through the community barter system . Today it would be almost instant anarchy . Let it be known here in backwards old WV , on the spine of the Appalachians , the American revolutionary war was won at the battle of Kings Mountain and Cowpens by a bunch of old Scots Irish mountain men armed with their long rifles and a propensity to hunt these woods for game at long distances . Snipers using assault rifles , i.e. rifles with a grooved barrel . Just a side note .

        • Don’t forget that it was a mid-term election year as well. If Obama’s snipers shot and killed people, the political fallout could have been horrendous. It might have even spawned a Timothy McVeigh type retaliation, down the road – which is how the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 came about. McVeigh was angry about what happened to the Branch Davidians at Waco.

          Had Obama’s snipers opened fire at the people at the Bundy ranch, and killed people, at the least Obama would have been hung and burned in effigy, political correctness be damned. Democrats would have been running for cover.

    • “…the people who loaded up and converged on Bundy ranch were probably the most extreme examples of right-wing extremists”

      Hardly! Most Oath Keepers I have met are of the conservative Libertarian stripe, not the Randy Weaver variety. Most of who stuck around for the long haul were local ranchers and Oath Keepers. I wouldn’t categorize them as extremists.

  3. Interesting read, I have always figured any future civil war in the United States would be more along the lines of the Spanish civil war in the manner it would go down, a slow burn of social disorder building to a crescendo of violence boiling over into full scale conflict.

    Of course this is pure conjecture.

  4. You’re wrong about Ronald Reagan (praise be his name). He didn’t grow government exponentially. He tried to shrink it, and as he was leaving office he was asked about his failings. He responded by saying one of them was not having been able to shrink government, but only having been able to shrink its rate of growth. No, it’s not a victory, but one man can’t do it alone. We need a Congress full of them, which is something we currently lack. Even if we don’t achieve it, in time it will collapse under the weight of its own debt, just as the Greek government is now collapsing. But the economic collapse of our federal government will not occur in a vacuum; it will affect all nations. The best thing you can do now is make sure you are living in a state that does balance its budget, does not interfere is every aspect of your life, does not tax you to death, and has the natural resources and basic infrastructure needed to endure the grand failure of our national government. It also will help to be as self-sufficient as practical, and possess marketable skills. I’m afraid blogging ain’t one of them.

    • Right you ARE!!! ANYONE who listens regularly to Mark Levin knows the battle he fought. He TRIED to eliminate the Dept of Ed but was bombarded by screeching ads trumpeting that he wanted a “generation of stupid GOP drones”. Instead we are raising THREE generations of IGNORANT Democrat drones and sheeple.

      Also everyone just STFU on the FOPA. He HAD to sign it with that amendment that limited ownership of full auto to guns made before 1986 or the spineless GOP hacks would have sunk it.

      Ray

    • It’s funny, Reagan blamed his failures on lack of a GOP controlled Congress (though the GOP did hold the Senate for six years of Reagan’s two terms…)

      Today, the GOP controlled Congress blames its failures on lack of a GOP controlled White House. Well. In the 2000s, under W. Bush, the GOP for a time actually controlled the White House and both houses of Congress, and the Supreme Court. What’d that get us? Massive spending and thoroughgoing corruption resulting in multiple criminal convictions and loss of all three branches of government to the lawless socialist Democrats. Not that the GOP was much better.

      The point is that government-loving politicians and bureaucrats are all the same. The team names and jerseys made change, but the game remains the same and it is rigged to screw the actual wealth creators.

      • It is rigged so the money from the wealth creators flows up to the wealthly. For some strange reason Reps believe in the myth of trickle down economics. It doesn’t work that way, money pours upward in a huge flood from the poor, to the middle class, to the rich, and then to the top 1%. Basiclly the money funnels to fewer and fewer people as it rises. Money doesn’t trickle down, never has in all of history, it floods upward to the rich. The Rep screw over the middle class just as much as the Dems.

        • Money trickles up when the interest rates and inflation is such that a penny saved is a penny lost, like it is today. The only people who can accumulate real wealth today are those that are already beyond wealthy, those that are lucky, or those that come up with some brilliant idea and don’t f it up. You and your family cannot “save” money and become wealthy today, even over generations, because those savings constantly lose money.

          This is why it is so important to end the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve makes sure the game is rigged and that all money flows up to the big banks that own the Fed (and they truly do own the Fed).

          If we ended the Federal Reserve (assuming it’s not replaced by another organization/agency or worse, the IMF or something) and/or returned to a non-fiat currency (gold standard or otherwise) this would change and the middle class could become wealthy by just working hard and saving money.

        • “If we ended the Federal Reserve (assuming it’s not replaced by another organization/agency or worse, the IMF or something) and/or returned to a non-fiat currency (gold standard or otherwise) this would change and the middle class could become wealthy by just working hard and saving money.”

          Which, one could argue, was the entire impetus behind creation of the Fed in the first place: consolidation of wealth among the already-haves and destruction of free-market driven class upward mobility.

          How dare the serfs think they can improve their lot through hard work, eh?

      • This is an important point. I think a good course of action would be to kill the GOP as a political party. It is useless and corrupt. Time for it to go. I’m hoping Ted Cruz or some other worthy launches a new party. We’ve put our faith in the GOP to represent us, and they’ve failed utterly. A Reagan appointee gave us gay marriage, a Bush appointee Obamacare.

        Yes, I think we are do for some kind of revolution here, but my hope is it will be bloodless. All we have to do is constrain the federal government and then allow the states to grow in power. Eliminate the federal government’s ability to legislate domestically. Period. Empower the states to solve domestic problems themselves. The federal government should conduct foreign policy and the nation’s defense. Enforce Posse Comitatus.

  5. George Carlin said it best ” Garbage In, Garbage Out. Another favorite ” It’s a big club and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club.

  6. Freedom don’t come free. If this happens it will be a bloody mess, and millions will die. The questions that disturbs me the most of this scenario is, what side will the majority of the military come down on? Hope big is Oath Keepers? How much will gang bangers (both the police kind and the civialian kind) go after each other?

      • I’m glad the oath keepers walked the roofs of the surviving black and white owned businesses in Ferguson Missouri. I’ll send you the TTAG link with the pictures. You show how uneducated you are making these comments.

  7. There lot people say would never happen again. Yet people back than where say same thing back than when did happen. The big issue this time come down personal freedom where some states allow people live in them a lot personally freedom. Other states take personal freedom treating like privilege that can take away from you any time they see get chances to on any matter of personal freedom that covered under constitution or bill rights. If you look at supreme court on matter they have said states can do this. States Robert Farago list above are best proof to this.

  8. I have thought the same thing for a long time. It will be a sad time, but necessary. We are to far gone to ever recover. With half the population not paying taxes and expecting those that do to pay more, we have given in the socialist thought process long ago….I love my country, and it saddens me to see what she has become. Twice in my life I took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and quite frankly, well, you know.

    • With half the population not paying taxes and expecting those that do to pay more, we have given in the socialist thought process long ago…
      Another straw on the camel’s back is that the government on all levels wants to and has regulated the crap out of the tax money providers and has given special rights to the unproductive sleep, screw, and snooze eater brigades and the legions that service them. There just simply will not be enough resources to feed the howling masses.

  9. Unless forced into armed conflict by a partial or complete economic collapse, the small-government types will not rise up to any significant degree. We are too busy raising families, holding down jobs, or keeping our businesses afloat. There is also a bias toward believing it will just work out on its own. Only through collapse, if people can no longer feed their families or go to work, will the GTFO class rise up.

  10. I hope it doesn’t have to come to that, but like you said, it won’t be resolved quickly. As an example, how long did we occupy the middle east? Despite all the military tech, training, and sheer number of soldiers, the army was still losing men and women to a bunch of illiterate goat farmers with rusty Cold war left overs. Now imagine a similar situation here in the States. As you said, not pretty and it won’t resolve quickly.

    • It’s one thing to pacify a foreign land and another to pacify unrest within your own borders. You can argue Rules of Engagement being tougher, but in domestic pacification you have the advantage of appealing to a portion of the population which is sympathetic to the government’s side – something we did not enjoy in the sandbox.

      • As I understand it, the rules of engagement are not tougher here than they are abroad, it’s exactly the opposite. Abroad our soldiers (and I am not one, so please correct me if the media reports have lied to me, again) are currently not allowed to fire unless fired upon. Whereas here cops are allowed to shoot when they feel threatened.

        It seems to me our private citizens and our military grunts are both considered expendable by the ruling class.

        Am I wrong?

        • During all of my trips to Afghanistan the ROE allowed us to shoot based on hostile action (actually being shot at) or hostile intent (the reasonable belief that some one intends to cause harm).

  11. “All politics are local.” In my experience, attending ‘meet & greet’ sessions with elected officials and those that aspire to be one are MUCH more effective. Money helps of course, but so does getting to know them, their senior staff, and their hot button issues. For anyone that’s serious about gun control, get on the NRA alert list and your state’s equivalent. Then make phone calls, send emails, appear at public meetings, and make your voice heard.

    In my experience, those that favor more restrictions and more government are generally are more effective and engaged than those of us that favor sensible government.

  12. Would the “Privately owned guns [which] will be involved” be enough to secure airports, cordon off and isolate military installations and counter electronic and airborne surveillance as well as airborne firepower, or long-range/remote guided munitions?

    • @MrANinnyMouse, yes. It’s happened frequently throughout history…the mice can beat a lion if it in fact comes to that.

    • Yes. Those munitions have to be manufactured, transported, and stored. Same goes for drones and other guided platforms. Someone pilots them, and have to sleep somewhere. As harsh as it sounds, the families of these people will also be at risk. This knowledge alone will cause many in the military to refuse to fight or go AWOL.

      A head on conflict with government forces is suicide, but if you make it too expensive for them to continue, they will have no choice but to come to the table and negotiate. A very small group of people that are determined and informed can pull this off.

      The big question is will the population at large accept government being downsized forcefully, or will they too fight for uncle santa.

      • Militarily, it would require state governments and their militaries to attempt to resist the might of the US military.

        But even were that successful, everyone’s money is controlled by banks that are controlled by the feds. Before any military or insurgency could ever hope to succeed, there would need to be major changes in banking and the monetary system so that people in the regions that manage to be apart from the feds would have a way to buy and sell goods.

        I just don’t see it starting, let alone succeeding.

        • @PistoleroJesse: If the gov’t control can control the internet they can switch off bitcoin, no matter how distributed it is. They could shut down any/all traffic that looks like bitcoin, and you can be sure they’ll shut down any encrypted traffic that is now their own.

          And not everyone has solar or is otherwise living off-grid, they can turn off the power, bombing plants if they’re controlled by their enemy.

          And if it gets too out of control and they really felt they were going to lose otherwise? They could and would EMP hotbed areas.

          Crypto currencies are a great idea, but imho they’re only great in peacetime.

        • @Tori S.

          Great. Take the mask off I say. Won’t help the statists at all. They suffer a death of a 1000 paper cuts, or they show their true nature and encounter more blow-back. The key here is to keep pushing their buttons. Cody Wilson knows this. They can’t keep up and they overreact when they try, and it makes excellent examples of their flawed philosophy of governance.

      • A hypothetical rebel force could find itself in the possession of these very weapons. Humans operate them, humans that could be sympathetic to a rebel cause. You might not have a machine gun on day 1 of the revolution, but you’ll probably have one on day two. I’d expect mass AWOLs from the established military, with as much equipment as the soldiers could take with them. Your ragtag rebel force will have a few tanks and helicopters in short order.

        Barring that, if the soldiers only leave with small arms and ammunition, the tanks, drones, and bombers are as good as useless, since they require human operators.

        A Second Civil War would be long, bloody, and protracted, most likely with evenly-matched forces. Nevermind foreign involvement – Russia & China would gladly finance and arm partisan groups.

        • Let me give you an idea of what will happen should the US destabilize and fall into civil war.

          With troops recalled to the US, that leaves many of our allies undefended. With American troops gone from the 38th Parallel, the DPRK will steamroll over South Korea with aid from China and capture the entire peninsula. (Almost immediately after, the Chinese will doublecross Kim Jong Un and take over all of Korea, annexing it as part of China).
          China will also annex Taiwan (as they’ve claimed it was theirs from the start) and begin a full-scale assault on Japan.
          Without the US to hold them back, Russia will expand west, taking all of Ukraine and all the other territories it gave up when the USSR fell. In fact they’ll probably push further west into Poland, Romania and Albania and then start after Western Europe. (They will probably leave Scandinavia alone, on account of what happened the last time they tried to invade Scandinavia)
          The entirety of the Middle East will explode into a terrorist hellhole. Either Iran will nuke Israel or they will sell a bomb to Daesh, who will nuke Israel. Either way Jerusalem is going to be irradiated. Daesh will move north into Turkey and chaos will erupt throughout the nation. Saudi Arabia won’t last long either without US protection or US money propping them up. Somewhere inside of 10 years, Daesh will have their Islamic Caliphate, extending from Morocco to Iran. IS attacks in Western Europe will increase in frequency and the Royal Army will have its hands full both holding off Russian advances and keeping terrorists in check.

          Mexico will advance its armies north once the US destabilizes and try to recapture Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. This probably won’t end well for them, but it’s going to make things worse for American rebels, as now they’ll be fighting on two fronts–fighting off American loyalists and fighting off Mexican invaders.
          Canada will probably take whichever side will benefit them the most. The Russians will probably tell them they’ll give Alaska to them if they stay out of it and Canada will probably agree. Russia, once the US is weakened from the infighting, will sweep in, park a few dozen ICBMs off the coast of NYC and Los Angeles and say “Surrender and swear fealty to the Russian Socialist Republic or die.” And with the US too weak to keep fighting, they’ll probably surrender. And then Russia will keep Alaska and take over Canada, using American tanks and bombers to do it.

          And that will be how freedom dies.

        • For Jim:

          “The entirety of the Middle East will explode into a terrorist hellhole. Either Iran will nuke Israel or they will sell a bomb to Daesh, who will nuke Israel. Either way Jerusalem is going to be irradiated.”

          Israel will nuke Tehran, otherwise Israel nukes all of the muslim arabic world, with a few saved for Moscow.

        • Always knew my friends in the IDF & Mossad were smarter than us.We could learn a lot from them. We just have to get a pair, just have a problem with carrying with an empty chamber. But I’ve gone back to SIG with DAK if it hadn’t been lost when the boat overturned.

        • For Jim,

          I’m not going to address all of those, but I hope you know that the Chinese do not like the North Koreans at all. They are totally mooches with practically nothing to offer to the modern world. The only reason China gives them any support is that they don’t want The system to break down and have the U.S. Forces on their border if North Korea implodes and north and south are reunited. Secondly, if the Kim regime falls, China knows that refugees will flood over the border into China in droves(all practically starving) and they don’t want to deal with that.(as in taking over the country would be expensive because now you have to deal with brainwashed starving people. North Korea could nuke South Korea, but they really want it intact. So an invasion force would cut into South Korea but would shortly run out of steam because they literally cannot feed an army.

          The Iran threat is way overblown. Leaders in Iran want to consolidate and maintain power, nuking a country puts them at significant risk of being threatened right back.

        • With the system as it currently exists the Chicoms are a bit problem as they try to swing it around the Pacific. But with a significant disruption in the world they have HUGE problems. The economy is driven by the mfg of consumer goods for the US and Eurup. If the ship/planes stop then the factories close and they will have millions of unemployed/unfed. About all they can do is put the unemployed in to uniform and send them somewhere. As most are only children question if they are willing to die or if their parents are willing to sacrifice their offspring. It isn’t 1951.

    • isolate military installations and counter electronic and airborne surveillance as well as airborne firepower, or long-range/remote guided munitions? The high tech military play toys are very fragile and maintenance intensive. These weapons and their elaborate systems are heavily dependent on the civilian industrial and technological base. Without a lot of civilian support, the high tech play toys will not be operational for very long. I will tell you now that civilian contractors keep our military operational much more than most people realize.

  13. And the end result, will be the same. The only difference is the amount of lives lost between now and when we get there. And that result will be victory for us. I do not have a pessimistic attitude on this. It’s easy to have one, when it seems that the entire force of the greatest empire in existence, to include its undefeated navy a leveled against you. Be that as it may, when the blood of patriots and tyrants flows again, we will win.

  14. The answer is very simple and will take no effort at all—certainly not any violence.

    People will simply stop paying taxes, by adjusting their withholding exemptions if an employee, or by not making quarterly payments if they own their own business.

    As soon as the bond market perceives the government can’t make its bond repayments , the entire financial system will implode. US Treasury Bonds are held by banks to meet their capital and liquidity requirements. If the bonds are losing most of their value, the banks will be deemed to be under capitalized and won’t be able to open their doors and do business.

    The 50% who do pay taxes will hold the whip hand, and demand an ironclad balanced budget amendment. Thereafter the socialist welfare state will be an impossibility.

    • Nailed it.

      And we are just about there. Citizens United and a subsequent case (I don’t remember exactly) pretty much laid the ground work for this type of civil disobedience being protected under the first amendment.

      .

    • Or we can ask for equal protection under the law. Why do I need to pay taxes and some don’t? why do I have to pay more and some less? Curious what SCOTUS will say about this.

    • Unless people at large form another monetary/barter system, this will be impossible. The currency is controlled by the banks and the treasury. Do you think that the IRS and other government agencies will allow you to sidestep their theft? Remember Cypress. The government will just raid accounts and collect in other ways. This is part of the reason many banks are trying to get out of cash, and go full digital.

      Now, if the Fed goes full Cypress, then you will see a violent uprising.

      • Cypress? The G is going to chop down Cypress trees?

        I doubt if very many people will care about that at all.

    • If you don’t pay taxes, they will garnish your wages and confiscate your bank accounts. Computers are plenty powerful enough to do this for millions of people on short notice.

      I just don’t see a way to protect the people from ruination. Guns will be the least of your worries when you and your family are starving and so is everyone else around you.

      • Who is going to be coming in to work their government jobs? With the banks closed—and the supermarkets emptied within hours—-everyone will stay home to look out for their families.

        Example? Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans. Half the Police force didn’t come in to work (and, certain members were caught on tape looting while still in uniform). Then, the storm passed.

        But what happens when the entire financial system is shut down? Again, the taxpayers will hold the whip hand and a balanced budget amendment will have to be passed before our “voluntary” tax system functions again.

        (And when people see this coming, they will withdraw their cash before the banks close–nothing to garnish from a closed bank)

        • A balanced budget amendment just means they will raise taxes to 75% like in most Nordic countries. People will be serfs.

    • You CAN’T stop paying taxes if you get a paycheck. Ask someone in the HR department about what they do when they receive a wage garnishment, because the IRS is already ready to start robo-sending them. The money will NEVER reach you. No armed agents. No kicking in doors needed.

  15. The pants wetting neurotic hoplophobic elites think they will watch from their $million high rise apartments as thousands of “bumpkin gun owners” and their familes are mowed down in the streets by cops and Guardsmen who will act like mindless robots.

    THEY will be targeted and singled out of they get their wet dream first. Along with thousands of feckless political hacks and officials. They really do not accept that 110 million Americans are armed with 300 million conventional arms and 350k full autos and a few heavier toys. Look at what an underfed, marginally equipped Viet force never more than 250k did to the U.S. Army or the same to the Soviets in Afghanistan.

    Ray

    • The military is largely manned by the “bumpkins” the elite of the US looks down upon. The military could prove to be a rebel force’s biggest source of manpower and equipment in a Second Civil War.

      • Pretty much, yeah. The majority of our all volunteer military are from “flyover country”, aka the South and the Midwest. I.e. deep red states. No wonder there was noise being made from the current resident of the Oval Office about creating a national police force equal in strength to the military, one that would surely be politically indoctrinated like the PLA are to the Party in China.

        • Can you PROVE he hasn’t accomplished that goal. The POS has “accomplished” a great deal towards destroying the US in the last 6 years.

  16. Start reminding yourself of the quotes by our Founding Fathers of this Nation. Your in it, or not. Choose to pacify the monster hoping it will eat you last, or resolve yourself to back up not one more inch.
    The time for “commenting” being an armchair “Patriot” are coming to an end. Choose wisely.

  17. Sorry gents, I don’t equate treating homosexuals equally as an infringement upon the second amendment. People who believe in the right to bear arms would do well to avoid associating the cause with other social issues because they have no bearing on the subject at hand. Handcuffing yourself to ideologies not directly connected to the second amendment is both stupid, short sighted and pointless.

    • And you just don’t get the point. This has nothing to do with Obamacare and gay mariage. It’s about the supreme court and politicians throwing the Constitution, the will of the people, and their duty to do what is best for the people in the trash bin. Abortion, obamacare, and gay marriage decreed by federal statute or judicial fiat is ILLEGAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

      ONLY the states or a constitutional ammendment could have touched on any of those issues.

      • One small correction: SCOTUS does not have a “duty to do what is best for the people”. That kind of thinking is what led them to uphold obamacare against not only the clear wording, but the clear legislative intent, of the law as written. SCOTUS’ duty is to uphold the Constitution as written and the laws as duly passed by the other two branches. It is that duty that they so willfully ignored last week.

      • Were such a revolt to happen over Obamacare and homosexual marriage, the historians would tell Americans that the opposition to the federal leviathan was because of hatred for homosexuals and nothing to do with Constitutional protections. Because no one can possibly see complex issues.

      • I beg to differ. The 14th amendment states, “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

        Denying a class of person a right provided to others is precisely the definition of “abridging privilege” and denying “equal protection under the law” expressly forbidden by the 14th amendment. If you disagree with gay marriage on moral or religious principle then fine, but don’t expect the US constitution to do the heavy lifting in that regard for you. The minute the contract of marriage was imbued with so many social benefits the seed for allowing same sex marriage under the constitution were sown.

        Getting back to my original point, it’s not the business of government to hold court on people’s sex lives nor is this issue in any way coupled to the second amendment. It honestly saddens me that I often find myself, in terms of defending the second amendment, on the same side of people whose bigotry in other areas makes me cringe. Bottom line, confine your defense of the second amendment to issues that actually impact it. Doing otherwise is an immense disservice to the cause.

        • If you read the dissenting views you will understand better what the beef is about. Justice Thomas sintetized this well with the following:
          “In the American legal tradition, liberty has long been understood as individual freedom from governmental action, not as a right to a particular governmental entitlement.”
          What the petitioners asked for were particular government entitlements.
          There are no laws today that forbid people to marry (private ceremony) and live together as husband and wife. It may be that they don’t enjoy the same entitlements as the marriages between a man and a woman. Exactly like I’m not entitled to all the tax rebates that others have.
          As for the due process side: the people in several states voted to not recognize gay marriage. As this right is left with the states, seems to me that due process was followed.

        • I’ve had 3.gay couples ask me to do marriage ceremonies for them. Refused all but 1. Refused for the same reasons as I have others, the relationship was unstable. The 1 I did perform civil instead of religious they have been together, monogamous for 35 years longer than a.lot of heterosexual couples I know. I say let all get married & be as miserable as the rest of us, trying to figure mortgage, insurance and in-laws.

      • Abortion, obamacare, and gay marriage decreed by federal statute or judicial fiat is ILLEGAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

        Same arguments used to support slavery.

        • And then we fought a civil war and AMMENDED the damn constitution. The supreme court back then upheld slavery and forcing northern states to return escaped slaves. Then it upheld segregation, Jim crow, and internment of American Japanese citizens.

          The Supreme Court has screwed up across the centuries. Oh, and the 14th ammendment has nothing to do with gay marriage. If it spreads to cover that much then we can no longer have any kind of morality law so long as someone complains loud enough. Have fun when your daughter wants to marry the family bulldog or Microsoft.

          Go read the dissenting opinions on both cases or go bury your head back in MSNBC.

        • Indeed !!

          What does it say about our future when SCOTUS can manufacture a right not specifically enumerated, while being unable to consistently find rights specifically detailed in the constitution?

    • This is not about gay marriage or second amendment. This is about the rule of law and the reputation of the highest court of the country. The decisions rendered this past week will only degrade further both. As someone said here before: there are three boxes in American society: the soap box, jury box and ammo box.
      All this debacle will further the break down of American society. When people are left no choice weird things are happening.
      Edit: seen the above post after I posted. I agree.

      • The same exact words were used after Brown v. Board of Education… Wonder what the will of the people of Mississippi was about integration in 1954…

        • Stop playing the race card, pervert.
          Gay is a sexual CHOICE.
          Race is genetics.

          And we all know this had NOTHING to do with love and marriage, it’s about tearing down the values of Judeo-Christian Western Civ.

          Dan Savage admits it. and it was planned in “After The Ball” decades ago.

          (this morning “gay spokesmen” said the next hurdle is POLYGAMY, so bi’s can marry a guy and a girl.)

          /vomit.

        • Since when have the godless progressives ever supported traditional marriage? They pay single women to have children. They see no need for a father/husband. It’s called welfare. They have always hated traditional marriage and loved the slavery of the welfare state.

          During the old, slavery the traditional family was also considered not necessary. The family was broken up. The godless progressives now do what the Christian believers did.

    • While I agree in principle I also recognize the push for gay marriage isn’t just a struggle for “rights” but also an attack on established cultural institutions. It’s yet another attempt at deconstructing the establish culture and traditions the left clearly despises and wishes to supplant. It’s textbook Frankfurt School. I’m not a religious person and as such have no skin in the game.

      However, it’s obvious by the appropriation of the word marriage the intent is to change culture not the pursuit of individual rights. Remember homosexuals originally used the word civil union. In my opinion this was simply a method of subterfuge.

      My solution is to get government out of marriage as much as possible. Government involvement being limited to recognizing legal contracts over shared assets. A homosexual couple would consult a lawyer and draw up a contract. But again, It’s not about assets but changing culture by force.

      • So far as I can tell, any state can effectively unilaterally withdraw from same-sex marriage by withdrawing from the marriage business altogether. SCOTUS ruling said that the 14th requires equal treatment wrt marriage, but not marrying anyone is equal treatment.

        The question is whether social conservatives are willing to go that route. I doubt that.

  18. The main cause of the revolution will be the collapse of the financial system due to the ever expanding debt.
    Gun rights will be the main secondary cause.

    • Pray people make the revolution happen quickly. When the financial system collapses, the trucks stop rolling. Most of the populated areas will starve within a couple of months. Expect the population to strike at each other. Most will not make the connection that government is the problem until it’s too late for them.

      • When the trucks stop rolling, most population center food distributors (grocery stores) will be empty within 24 hours. From that point the clock is ticking towards a meltdown.

  19. “I reckon the two-party political divide is a distinction without a difference.”

    I think what you mean is that it’s a difference of degree rather than distinction. You named one of the many differences immediately before the quoted sentence.

  20. Historically we are just about due one; most major civilizations never had more than a 200 or 300 year span of internal peace. Usually once every 1-2 generations there would be mass internal conflict. Rome had civil wars and uprisings, France and England had wars of succession, internal wars, outright civil wars, revolutions, etc. If they were not fighting an outside source, they were fighting eachother. Out Media is trying to drive a wedge a “two Americas” wedge between peoples. If we are not fighting otusiders (China, Russia, Terrorists) it is inevitable we will begin to fight eachother. The toxic culture of the media towards small Government and the rural , conservative lifestyle reminds me far too much of press clipping before the civil war. If they say history repeats itself, I say its about 1845 or 1850

  21. We are not our grandfathers, let alone our fore-fathers. That’s why we’re in this mess, and why we probably won’t get out of it. Civil War? The majority are subjects to the red, white and blue crown, and they (we) depend on the status quo for survival.

    It’s unbelievable that such great men ever existed. We’re pathetic.

  22. The War To End All Wars, guess what? Wasn’t .

    The Libs smell blood in the water. The Confederate Flag, monuments, schools, street names, gun control banter is back with Manchin/Toomey, why can’t we remember the Left’s mantra:
    Never Let A Crises Go To Waste!

    We wished to be left alone, they nudged, pushed during Katrina, they shoved in Boston, they tried in Nevada. It’s Whack A Mole folks, and they ain’t gonna stop. Until we remember why we have a 2nd Amendment to begin with. I would like to see a tax revolt first. The 47% that do pay taxes; STOP!
    Let’s see them enforce 187 million folks that stop paying taxes. What can they enforce? Gandhi was right. And it cuts both ways.

    • Unless they get paid in cash, Uncle Santa will just raid accounts. Enforcement will be a few keystrokes away.

      • This is where conservatives understand clearly, yet completely drop the ball.

        Cryptocurrency. You cannot defy your umbilical…

        The refusal to understand Cryptocurrency is the hold up. The preference for talking out their asses when they can’t or won’t understand the very thing that could save their asses…

        Have a job that pays in guvpaper just enough to cover your expenses. Keep everything else in cryptcurrency. Learn how to darknet. Learn encryption. Learn at least the basic rules of the battlefield you find yourself on…

        This is a revolt being fought in the technological realm. If you can’t computer, you’re impotent. It doesn’t matter how many gadsden flag sticker you slap on your pickup truck. If you can’t BitCoin, can’t Encrypt, can’t GPG, can’t TOR and/or I2P, can’t even keep your computer from self-destructing, can’t use a non-commercial OS, can’t understand what facebook, cloud, etc… Actually believe that being clueless and stupid are good things that make you cool and trendy… can’t do any of the things you HAVE TO DO to fight back, then you’re not fighting back…

        Willing AND able. If you’re not able, it doesn’t matter how willing you are. If you refuse to learn and understand the crux of it all, cryptocurrency, then it’s all lost before it even starts…

  23. No. It will not happen. People are too fat and lazy in America. We like to say how a few fighters in afghanistan held the US forces at bay. But comparing a stroke belt redneck to an afghan tribal warrior is, at best, dishonest.

    And to what purpose a civil war? Wind up with a military junta and no rights at all? This is a very real possibility.

    And if we restore the constitution in full? Then all those voters that support barry and his like have the right to vote it all back in.

    • I imagine it would be like Starship Troopers, with the military in charge and voting rights severely restricted. Can’t say that was a bad thing, since our country did not grant every lazy SOB a vote when the country was founded…

  24. Both parties the same, all differences are superficial, manufactured, and the illusion of even pretend difference is dissolving.

  25. This country is doomed…an 18 trillion debt(and no plans to lower it) insures the death of America. Yeah load up-we’re gonna’ need it. When the entitlement crowd(the majority) fails to get a check that’ll be sayonara. I will never vote democrat and have no use for MOST republicans…but please keep on a-reckoning…

      • At least the unfunded mandates haven’t been spent yet. It’s metaphysically possible (though extremely unlikely) that we will pull our heads out of our asses and refuse to spend that money.

        The debt we have now has been spent. That debt WILL ultimately be paid, either by the borrower or by the lender, if the borrower defaults.

      • Not to mention all the unfunded liabilities of the various political subdivisions (cough, Illinois pensions, cough).

  26. I sure hope not!
    however, there doesn’t seem to be any real effort to solve our very real problems. just scapegoating and lies. The problems are getting worse for everyone except the wealthy and goverment employees.
    At some point things will fall apart from inefficency . even then sane people never want bloodshed. SO I hope for a peacfule solution .
    maybe we are just to big to manage and there will be a peaceful seperation.

    As for the media, they are summoning the demons that will devour us all.

  27. When the progressives and gun control supporters are dehumanizing their opponents and their families, we are marching toward civil war and or secession. It is part of the statist playbook to demonize those who obstruct their agenda. We are seeing it now with the harassment of Christian businesses and any citizen with a contrary opinion. Look at how many people have lost their jobs or business just for expressing a non PC opinion. A cursory view of gun control groups social media verifies the same mentality of demeaning the humanity of those who disagree with their agenda. Unchecked and given enough time, it always ends up with dissidents taking a bullet in the head.

    • Tom, neither succession or civil war is even possible, immigration policies are achieving the goal they were at out to accomplish, weaken from the inside the American community. You are dead on with the demonization of dissidents. and their families, look at the families resisting the push against a mandatory vaccines, the hatred and threats directed at them(all mouthing pharmaceutical sound bites) would be considered hate speech if it was directed at gays, Jews, blacks, or any other politically favored/protected group.

  28. There’s a two party government but most Americans are purple. The only stance I agree with the right wing is anti gun control, the rest of the right is kowtowing to the rich and/or religious nuts who want the big government to infringe on my rights. Whenever the right claims they are small government then want to regulate what I can buy, fuck, or smoke is no small government advocate.

    I also enjoy how small government advocates never talk about shrinking our bloated military, which is one of the largest government employers.

    • @blergh, as a conservative and a “religious nut” as you put it, I think you elevate yourself a bit too much. I could care less what you do to yourself, who or what you fuck unless it is a minor in which case I would vote to hang you from the nearest tree. The main thing we would like is to have our kids protected from your filth and to be left alone. Unfortunately, you leftist statist godvernment worshippers want to ram your filthy junk down our throats and the throats of our children. In which case, the fight will be on.

    • blergh I also enjoy how small government advocates never talk about shrinking our bloated military, which is one of the largest government employers.

      Why don’t you just post “don’t know diddly squat about the US military”?

      There is very little left of the military force.

      • If there’s so little left of it, then why does US has over a hundred military bases all over the world (all manned!), and why does it spend more on military than the next ten countries on the list combined (which includes all of its potential enemies)?

  29. I see a collapse into anarchy before I see a new civil war. Others have already said it–life has been materially too easy for Americans for too long.

    • I believe you are mistaking Anarchy with Chaos.

      Remove government, and allow the population to adjust. People can govern themselves quite well. Those that do not respect the property and person of others will be identified, and removed from society (one way or another).

      The US was like this for much of the early years. We were very much self sufficient. We had local councils, and the state lever governments had long periods of time between communications. Things got worse once the Feds were up and running. Thus began our slow decline, as government grew at a snails pace. Just after 1913, the Feds (and banks) hit the accelerator.

      http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/include/usgs_chart2p21.png

      These days, with our system of sustenance that evolved, this will be a very painful process, and most people will not tolerate/survive it.

      There is no easy way out of this…

  30. I… kind of think it’s only a matter of time before we’ll see the balkinzation of the united states. More and more people are getting really pissed off at being marginalized into pawns in a big game. Even worse is that we’ve got an economy that’s teetering on the edge of melt down. People were willing to burn down their own home city over a only mildly questionable police incident. What are they going to do when they can’t afford gasoline?

  31. I’ll believe that a civil war is a possibility when I see a McMurrah-style bombing every month. Which I won’t see, and don’t want to.

    We are a peaceful people. Maybe, sometimes, occasionally, too peaceful, and therefore easily dominated by the jackals in Washington.

    • Some of us. Much of society will go ape $hit When the power is out, water is off, and the trucks stop rolling. Society is a veneer of civilization supported by comfort and convenience.

  32. All we wanted was to be left alone, to live our lives without your meddling.

    We’ve tolerated you long enough. We’ve tolerated your icons long enough.

    If you wish to leave, now is the time.

    Once we begin, we will not stop until you are gone. We intend to live our lives at Liberty. We mean that our children and grandchildren will do the same, free of your tyrannies.

    Leave. Now.

    You should have left us alone…
    K at 2:05 PM

    Coming to a town near you.

  33. “Both sides are part of the same political establishment. Maintaining the status quo – the system itself – is job one. Ideology is a merely a means to that end.” …Well said.

    They’re will be no civil war because the vast majority of citizens are collecting some form of government subsidy. People don’t bite the hand that feeds them and will put up with a lot before they take up arms. And should they, they’ll be on the receiving end of a military power small arms cannot overcome.

    Bundy Ranch put government on notice that hard right shows up with arms when government overreaches. Government backed down and the pleasures of seeing tan crew with badges learning pointing guns at gangbangers doesn’t play with shooters who know that they’re doing. Next time government will be ready with a larger force and only determination resolve, and will determine if another Concord is our future.

    One thing that will have an impact is the vote. Politicians employment hinges on getting & maintaining votes. Interrupt that cycle and the needle moves. I would rather knock on doors than crawling to a tree line and show legislators how well I shoot.

  34. I don’t know how anyone expects the masses to rise up when the majority probably believes Washington fought the civil war against Mexico because general Santa Maria invaded Plymouth rock, but they can identify the second runner-up from season 3 of American Idol without a seconds hesitation. They also think Romney was a Democrat Obama is a Libertarian and John Kerry hosted some show on PBS they can’t quite remember. They don’t know enough to be frustrated, angry, disappointed, or even happy with government.

    The really scary part is those people still vote.

  35. Moderates and independents like myself are the expanding political demographic and we do not align with right wing or left wing policies. “Big govt or small govt” is waaaaay too over simplified IMO.

  36. Enough with the Bundy Ranch stuff… that guy was and is a law breaker who deserves the stuff that happened to him. He’s our Michael Brown. He was going against something we don’t like (gov’t overreach in his case) but he had it coming, much like Michael Brown did when that cop killed him

  37. Many many many Americans are handing their privacy over to corporations as fast as they can, all in the name of convenience and information sharing. It is not a difficult step for the big federal government to obtain all an individual’s information from these few corporations. Once the privacy has vanished so will the freedom. Gun rights will be a drop in the bucket, and a fond memory, humanity will buckle to the offer comfort and convenience, and it will be voluntary and without struggle.

    • THIS!!! Irresponsibility has been marketed as oppulence and “being cool.” I have pages on one of my website dedicated to understanding technology, how to take back monetary, personal, and communication privacy; I can count on one hand the people who take it seriously.

      They want to be slaves. It’s cool. Conservatives are the worst because they are entitled to putting their heads int he sand, refusing to understand anything, ever. They think “the government” can’t see anything they do on facebook, what’s in their gmail account, or what’s in dropbox… They think that government money will somehow free them from government tyranny… Hopelessly stupid.

  38. You’re correct that the issue is more fundamental than the issues displayed on the surface, but you’re wrong about what the underlying fundamental is.

    The difference is lower still. Those who develop their intellect, that which separates us from the animals, and those who dispose of their humanity and indulge in being minimalistic trash.

    Those who dispose of their humanity, their higher intellect, believe in silly crap like free stuff for life, the idea that you can shut off gravity. The total detachment from reality that it takes to believe in the ridiculous crap they want and demand be given, stolen from others.

    At the root of all Big Government voters is the belief that voting turns power-hungry tyrants into magical benevolent gods that can break the laws of nature and grant us all utopia. It’s like a version of prayer, except offered up to the lowest of humans, instead of a god, imaginary or not…

    There are people who actually pray to Obama, and teach their children to do the same.

    It’s one thing to hate religion and call it crazy. But, you’ll see most of the people who do and say so, have similar patterns of belief, they simply put their faith in things much more absurd than the flying spaghetti monster.

    The only reason crazy isn’t working is because we haven’t gone crazy enough! It used to be a Liberal thing… Now, the Repubs have gotten in on it, too… We’re seeing a shift from Left and Right, to Top and Bottom. The Left and Right start looking the same the closer to the bottom we sink…

    Huxley and Orwell had ideas that were, in reality, only the two halves of the problem. They’re both wrong because they saw their perspectives as the whole, when they are really the Yin and Yang of social decay and collapse. They’re both wrong because they’re both right. The Huxlian begets the Orwellian. The Orwellian begets the Huxlian. They both grow until the whole can no longer be supported by those who know better than to get involved in that mess. Then, of course, it becomes the non-participants who are to blame in the eyes of those who sunk the ship…

  39. There will be no civil war, no collapse, unless of course it is being controlled and orchestrated by the PTB to gain more control.

  40. Jade Helm anyone.
    SC had been improving with firearms rights & manufacturing, a governor although a cold fish personality was telling obamacare to stick it. Now a woman who proudly held up her Beretta shotgun is on the same page as the socialist in chief.
    Few realize that Ft. Jackson. Parris Island are both in SC, less than 90 minutes The 82nd can be anywhere in the state from Bragg, Camp LeJeune is just a short hop along with all the associated support. Ports both civilians & military are.at Charleston, Norfolk. VA, & Wilmington NC.

    From a strategic standpoint SC & NC are the two states civilians must take first. Has anyone wondered why a thug in MO is shot & riots ensue same in Baltimore.but 9 people are shot with a race claim, in a majority black city & all that happens is they want a flag and our guns? No rioting even with outside agitation from tons of fun, Obama himself shows up in an attempt to prove he’s Christian. What the hell is going on? Do they see the confederate battle flag as some sort of call to the buffet line.
    Why no rioting, especially since it was allegedly racial where others were not.

    I don’t know about anyone else but I disposed of all my firearms, ammunition & reloading equipment. Terrible boating thing they were on it for ballast & I overturned. Even have wife’s o.k. too purchase a new hunting rifle.

    BTW to any that ask I would be in the fight for the constitution. Swore allegiance to it not some damnable politicians that want to scrap everything my relatives fought for from 1774 until Bush 1 wimped out & would not let us put a grenade in Saddam, even after training the “30y/o students as troops”. After Mr. Peanuts let the Shah fall.

    Now let’s all sing the Battle hymn of the republic, eating goober peas, & When Johnny comes marching home again as they seem to want to return to 1860-65.

    I had a complete set of confederate flags as I did historical reenactments when I was younger and thinking of teaching history, been in my man cave for years along with my Northern uniform. Bought 2 cheapo battle flags flying it outside now anyone wants to climb the pole enjoy the pyrachantha (firethorn).

    • Ill see your battle hymn of the republic, and raise you a Dixie 🙂 Maybe even some Ashokan Farewell even though it wasnt written until 1982, that damn ken burns documentary burned it into my brain.

  41. Submit this to the NYT’s Editorial page…That would be interesting.

    I believe it is inevitable that there will be a confrontation between states and the Government.

  42. Hysterical, and delusional. On the whole, gun laws are being relaxed nationwide. The Federal government has been cowed, and has no stomach to interfere with the states. Just look at Obama saying that the Justice Department will not persue prosecution of marijuana laws where the use is legal according to the state. You, sir, have the vapors. I suggest you breath slowly and deeply into a paper bag.

    • As long as you can smoke that weed, obama talking this weekend about pushing Australian style confiscation of all semi and pump long guns is nothing to worry about.

      • Ever notice they all worry about weed more than rights, food or anything else. My wife had her annual check-up Friday she was asked about firearms in house & blood was mandatorily drawn for hepatitis B & C & DNA profile. Friends husband does the blood pick-ups shame about that over heating that happened.

    • The Federal government has been cowed, and has no stomach to interfere with the states.

      Apparently, you didn’t read about two very recent Supreme Court rulings.

  43. The United Soviet Socialist States of America will collapse and for much of the same reasons that the Soviet Union did. I keep stating that things are proceeding as in Ayn Rand’s novel Atlas Shrugged and I still think Ayn Rand was more right than she was wrong. I still think that a lot of Robert Heinlein’s novels were socially and politically more accurate than what many people thought they were. I think all the little darling Socialist States of Europe are overdue for a giant dump and if it were not for the USA, they probably would have by now. Greece collapsing should be interesting. Venezuela is already kaput and people are standing in line for empty stores. The Science of Socialism!

  44. You’re wrong. You’re buying into the “big federal government is a modern thing” myth. Alexander Hamilton and most of the Federalists would look at today’s federal government and think things turned out just like they thought they should. The anti-federalists were steadily losing ground from the get-go. The Civil War was the last nail in the coffin of limited federal government, but the coffin was already well under construction by then.

    If you get in on the inside of the workings of modern government, there are some real eye-openers. One is that the federal government scoops up most of the total available tax dollars. Massive amounts of these dollars are then distributed back out to state and local governments. Many, if not most, of the programs you think of as state and local are really federally funded. The funding system builds top-down dependency.

    In my opinion, Wyoming is the last freedom-loving state. On a good day, you might be able to include Montana, Idaho, Utah, and Alaska. Texas is not in the club. Too many urban centers and too much industry.

    The “showdown” already happened along time ago. If you really bone up on your history, the “showdown” was likely the ratification of the constitution.

    • Also, the United States is a fantastic country. I can’t think of one I’d rather live in. Nothing is perfect. I think a lot of Americans need to either quit their bitchin’ or at least say where they would rather be. Be thankful you’re here. Once you have to admit you already live in the country you would pick if you had your choice ought to help put things in perspective. There’s nothing wrong with identifying things you’d like to change, but carrying on like you live in Iran or Venezuela is a bit much.

      If “tyranny” to you means paying $200 and dealing with some red tape so the 1,000 rounds of ammo you bought off the shelf at Wal-Mart aren’t too loud, I recommend international travel or a dictionary. There’s a big middle ground between ostriches and chicken littles.

      • Man old man , this is the very attitude that has got us where we are and will lead to our demise . Haven’t ever been told the story of the bologna I guess . Chuck Harder had it right in the 1980s , a chunk here , a sliver there , just a little piece over and over until the 10 pounds you started with is smaller than the next piece they ask for , naivety .

  45. Civil war? No. Can’t see it. Won’t happen.

    Peaceful secession? Now, that I can see. There is no more United States of America; there are, instead, two Americas — one Blue, one Red. It’s roughly North vs. South, Urban vs. Rural, Secular vs. Christian, etc. etc. Those divides are not merely differences of opinion, but real gaping cultural differences. And these two Americas despise each other. (Those stuck in the middle are, like centrists everywhere and all throughout history, screwed.)

    It’s like a marriage in its last throes, where the spouses not merely dislike each other, but actively disrespect and despise each other. Conversation is a strained affair of each trying to one-up the other, or find the weakness to exploit at some later date. Reconciliation is impossible. They might stay together for the sake of the children, or because financially, they can’t afford to separate, but that marriage is over.

    I suppose there is a small outside chance that the couple might rediscover the original love they had for each other. Maybe it’s a crisis that makes them realize that they actually do need each other. Maybe it’s a violent attack on them, or maybe it’s an economic crisis that neither can get out of alone, or maybe it’s an intervention by friends and family. Maybe, just maybe, those two might rediscover mutual respect, and an ability to fight without trying to hurt, debate without demonizing and denigrating the other, etc. But I’m not holding my breath.

    • From it’s beginning, the United States has dealt with a significant ideological divide between rural and urban areas. Sometimes it’s more pronounced than others. The federal system is rigged so the rural areas have disproportionate influence. As a result, the urban interests are always pissed, and the rural interests are always defensive. The nutty thing is how consistently geography and ideology have matched up over time throughout the country’s history. As a teacher once said, “there is no new thing under the sun.”

    • Or they stay hitched “for the sake of the children” (ugh, that phrase sets my teeth on edge) or “we can’t afford a divorce” (more likely). And retire to separate bedrooms.

    • If some states want to secede – the like of Wyoming or the Dakotas – I doubt there’d be much resistance over it from the left. Why bother about “flyover country”?

      OTOH, something like Texas, for example… you can’t just ignore the large concentration of liberals in Austin or Dallas. The same really applies to all the other southern states. Despite the skewed local politics, they have a prominent blue streak that is largely concealed through gerrymandering these days. But start talking about secession there and see where that gets you.

  46. The gay Rights pass by SCOTUS displays the willingness for the Gov’t to divide the people. I believe there will be a battle.

  47. There is no real difference between the two parties. ..both want to control you and stifle dissent. Red vs. Blue is a false narrative. There are only good people and bad people. All the rest is window dressing.

    • There’s no difference between the Big Two because they’re both just wings of the Corporate Party that has bought them all. There will only be a civil war if the corporations decide it will be a good idea.

      The big corporations prattle about capitalism but they love socialism — socialism means they don’t have to pay people enough to live on: they send their workers to get food stamps and subsidized housing and now subsidized medical care. As far as outfits such as Walmart are concerned, the government exists to make sure they can pay workers as little as possible and otherwise to stay out of the way.

      We’re headed for corporate feudalism, where corporations tell governments what to do. The Right won’t see that and won’t fight it because the corporations are worshipped as “job creators” (they aren’t — customers are), and the Left won’t see it because the corporations are what provide their chosen politicians with lucrative jobs after sitting in government and the chance to get rich while sitting in government.

      • @Roymond, oh the Right/conservatives see it just fine. The problem is, the Republicans/Quislings don’t…or rather won’t….or rather are in deep up to their eyeballs in it.

  48. Face it the Democratic party and liberals are the new world Fascist they love rich billionaires like Bloomberg so they love the wealthy to back them So they are no longer the commies we thought of in the 60s. They have become the Mussolini fascists like the ones who took over Italy in the 20s. Like the Soviets said America cannot fall by a foreign army it abscess and fall from with in. I hate to say they maybe right.

  49. We have been at war with ourselves since the founding. Jefferson and Hamilton were unalterably opposed to each other regarding strong central government and weak central government. Between the idea that people could manage themselves, and the idea that people were a mob requiring ruling elites to keep society orderly.

    Ruling elites are winning.

    • You couldn’t be more on the money , a true coinsure of history . I would assume most here would fall on the Jefferson side , as would I . The knowledge our founders based their arguments upon were historically based and their recognition and understanding of human nature . Their discourse on vise and the control of it may be some of the most interesting reads ever penned outside the scriptures . Go forth and educate dear sir , our citizens need you .

      • Ask around…how many of your friends know The Federalist Papers exist? How many have read them? All of them? One day, when you have nothing to do, read the Papers in the original 18th century English. Then read a modern language version (Glenn Beck’s is pretty good). The modern language does not convey the same message and impact, but much better than nuttin’.

        Even my own youngsters managed to escape 16 yrs of education without stumbling over the best compendium of thought about a government since Plato.

        • I have indeed read all of them and in their original pen . I have some difficulty in the transferring of their speak to our modern language but did manage to muddle through with the ever present aid of Mr. Webster . I don’t think your average person today would care enough to even try or understand the relevancy . These works of writing prose describe in detail the times we live in and these scholarly men new full well the future that lay ahead of the experiment called America . You mention Glenn and I would second your motion to acknowledge his presence on todays stage . I have many feelings and thoughts over the years I’ve listened to and now watched Mr. Beck that parallel his discourse and somehow know that he too fully understands the roads that lay ahead and the choices we will probably face . This is always changeable of coarse and natural events can supplement the choices people would normally make by creating roadblocks and impasses we couldn’t possibly for see and at the same time opportunities that could better our days ahead . Technology may lead us out of outcomes that others have had to face but I fear it is moving to fast for our moral compass to guide us safely through . God Bless .

        • Would recommend Beck’s modern language version of the Papers. Of course, the know nothings in this country consider wisdom garbage these days, but even given Beck’s reputation his book is helpful to get around some of the old style syntax of the original Papers.

          There is a book of past and future history that culminates in a glorious battle between good and evil; a battle involving the great nations of the world. Curiously, the US is a nothing at that time.

          Cheers

  50. Why do you think the DHS was created? The military are considered “politically unreliable” with these oaths to defend the USA from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

    Why does the TSA to be a welfare programme? Because capable employees will ask awkward questions about procedures and processes.

    Give a federal government an inch and they will over-reach a mile. Moreso in the name of “National Security”. The Australian Federal Government has just passed legislation regarding the banning of internet sites that promote piracy. The Australian Christian Lobby, who have a lot of influence with incumbent Liberal party, are asking for pornography sites to be included. And after that any sites that discuss or promote gun ownership and usage will one of the next groups to be added to the block lists.

    For the children of course.

  51. It will be a violent but quick civil war. This is what I know.

    Those who favor limited .gov have the vast majority of the guns, training, ammo, equipment, mentality, ability, etc.

    Those who favor more .gov have a very limited supply of the above…especially mentality and ability for combat and will be very limited help to those they demand do the fighting for them.

    The “more .gov” crowd will expect the .mil, National Guard, federal and local police to do their fighting for them but I fully expect at least 75 percent to either be of the “limited .gov” persuasion or have no desire to die trying to fight their neighbors who are. The remaining 25 percent will either perish very quickly against an overwhelming force or decide going home to family is more important.

  52. The Govt has already primed a race war with their baiting activity going unchallenged for the most part. The welfare system has built an army of animals ready to fight to get ‘their free stuff’. You might get a few people to wake up if you start to impose upon their soccer-mom/dad helicopter parent lifestyles but until that happens they aren’t going to move one millimeter to help this country.

  53. Guns may be the flashpoint, but if anything it’s going to be about the disdain some parts of the country have for the rest.

    Of all the stupid things, “Voter-ID” is the clearest indication. I live in what is one of the bluest states in the country. Obama won 50% more votes than Romney in 2012, and 65% more votes than McCain in 2008.

    And yet… every time I go to vote, I need to show my driver’s license to the attendant at the polls. When i was asked for ID most recently, I specifically inquired “Are you allowed to demand that?” to which the staff replied “Yes, absolutely”.

    And yet, the majority of the members of my state, if asked about Voter ID laws in Texas, Georgia or Mississippi, would go on a tirade about how those racists just wanted to engage in gerrymandering and suppress the non-white vote.

    It’s mildly appalling.

    • I’ll tell you what the flashpoint will be.

      It’ll be when it’s the 1st of the month and the checks bounce.

  54. “Small government supporters have . . . Ted Cruz? Rick Perry? No one, really.”

    Rand Paul?

  55. .gov needs a hard restart, that much is certain. Whatever replaces it however, is just as likely to be good as it is bad, we could just as likely end up with Patronicus as you could Ghengis Khan. I personally like many above, think it will originate on something involving our infrastructure collapsing, gas food etc. not being available. Whatever happens at that point we will all just have to wait and see.

    So personal what if machine engaging, I have been leaning towards a 4-5 way battle royale between the Free Sh1t Army, La Raza, .gov, “the insurgents” (bet you can guess who that is 😉 ) and every one smashed in between the epic cluster frak taking place just trying to exist.

  56. I had hopes that a political solution could be reached at one point, but with the two SCOTUS decisions at the end of last week, I think bloodshed is all but inevitable. I do not, however, think it is going to happen as most may think.

    First, I’ve come to believe that Obama is trying to push it to open conflict intentionally. No one could be so serially incompetent. It is as if every decision and policy seems to be pushing for an armed confrontation. Remember, too, that his ideology requires revolution. If so, then he has been preparing for this increasingly publicly, whether it’s been purging the military of anyone who might reject illegal orders to militarizing the bureaucracy to encouraging rioting in minority neighborhoods.

    More important is that he needs conservatives to fire the first shot. That put them in the position of the aggressors and gives him justification. if the federal government fires first it will be a unified and decisive response by the public, much of the military and I believe many of our police forces. That is why I believe the government backed down at the Bundy ranch. It was clear they would have to initiate the violence.

    But as I say, I don’t think that this is going to be the cause of the violent conflict, if not outright civil war.

    The other side of the Progressive push has been at America’s social institutions, especially the Church and free expression through the political correctness movement. It also includes creating a dependency class through welfare and creating racial guilt. This venues have been making their progress through the education system and through an increasingly corrupt court system.

    And that is where it will blow up. We are getting closer and closer to the States calling an Article V convention. First, this cuts the Fed out of the discussion. Second, this is would be State based, not population based. If you look at the electoral map of the State legislatures, you’ll see what I mean. Montana has as much say as California despite the population differences. That stipulation is part of the Constitution’s rules of amendment. Third, the overwhelming majority of States are conservative, regardless of party, though even on party lines, Republicans would pull more than the 3/4ths required to pass the Amendments that came out of such a convention.

    What amendments would we likely see? I think any of the following are a high probability.

    * Balanced budget
    * Flat tax
    * Defense of Marriage
    * Revamping and/or limiting the SCOTUS
    * Strengthening the 2nd Amendment
    * Possibly repealing the 17th Amendment
    * Entitlement/welfare reform amendment
    * Immigration amendment (though I could see this breaking either to either side)

    All of these – except possibly immigration will go in the conservative, small government direction. There are the votes in the various state legislatures to get a block like this passed. So what happens if that occurs with the far left States like CA, NY, CT, NJ, etc. when they find their source of “other people’s money” cut off?

    I don’t think they will peacefully acquiesce.

    Frankly I can see the violence breaking out from Progressives when they perceive a convention to be a real threat. They still need a couple more generations in control of education and immigration before they have created an unstoppable social mass. Losing at this point will set them back generations. Either the mob or the government will begin the bloodshed. I do believe that Progressivism will lose. At least if the conflict comes in my or my son’s (natural) lifetime. Further than that, though? The American experiment will be dead.

    That America can avoid this path is something my wife and I pray for regularly.

    • “…if the federal government fires first it will be a unified and decisive response by the public…”

      Just like at Ruby Ridge and Waco, right? No, wait, the public was aggressively indifferent to those two huge abuses of power… The question is, has public sentiment changed radically since the early 1990s, or would a similar event today receive essentially the same apathetic response?

      • I’d say that the public is reacting differently this time.

        Witness the number of murders of beat cops, sitting in their cars or out on patrol, across a number of urban areas in the last two months.

        Were the murdered cops involved in some questionable policing? Most probably not. That didn’t stop some member of a now fed-up populace from killing them.

        If a few dozen more police/fedgov agency members were similarly killed, the responsiveness of the various agencies would change dramatically. After all, they’ve been told many times that the most important object in life is to go home at the end of the day… and if it appeared that merely wearing the badge makes them a target or opportunity, the human instinct to say “I’m not dying for this nonsense” will kick in and orders from the Ivy Leaguers in office will be largely ignored.

        • Funny how it’s usually conservatives defending these cops yet the liberals who decry the cops, also depend on the very same for protection.

        • Grindstone, it’s just an extension of the same mindset of “Congress sucks, but my Congress-Critter is OK.”

        • “That didn’t stop some member of a now fed-up populace from killing them.”

          Except for those boyfriend/girlfriend drugged out loons in the Nev. big box store, every cop assassination this year was by a criminal with a very long record.

          Implying they are “fed up” constitutionalists is revolting.

        • “Grindstone, it’s just an extension of the same mindset of “Congress sucks, but my Congress-Critter is OK.””

          Excellent point.

          Another similar one (and equally important): “Public education sucks, but MY school district is a good one. We have good teachers that really care.”

      • Dyspeptic is right, it is a different situation today. Progressives understand this better than the general public. Bundy Ranch would have been “just another” Ruby Ridge not that long ago. There’s also been a lot more orchestration in the series of events and unrest.

        One thing that you can be sure of, is that with the SCOTUS successes, Obama is going to push hard and fast on both the 1st and 2nd Amendments. At this point, since neither Congress or the Courts are willing to oppose him, he has to defeat both the pen and the sword held by the public and he needs to do it quickly.

    • If it comes down to a choice between an Article V convention or revolution then just give me revolution. That list of probable items is reason enough for me to oppose such a convention. IMHO, it’s at best a pipe dream (for examples, reigning in SCOTUS when it manufactured its unenumerated power of Judicial Review in 1803 and the plain language of shall not be infringed rendered meaningless over time… NO change in language would’ve prevented these tyrannies) or dangerous at worst (run away convention). IMHO, Article V convention supporters tend to statists shoveling more statism. (I’m not directing that at you personally. No offense intended.)

  57. Beloved tradition of democracy? That’s exactly the problem, democracy no – republic yes. You should already know this Robert.

    “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself.”
    – John Adams

  58. For those who think that it can’t happen, consider this:

    It would take only perhaps a dozen people with some knowledge and possibly (but not certainly) high powered rifles to take down the majority of the electrical grid in the US.

    Once you take down the grid in a way that takes month(s) to repair, large urban areas will descend into chaos all by themselves. Urbanites will use the opportunity to tie up the law enforcement and federal LEO cadres quite quickly, as the Ivy League cohort in DC attempts to keep a lid on their socialist utopia.

    • Sensitive parts of the power grid with the potential to disrupt electricity to millions of people will be heavily guarded against partisan attacks. You are going to have to fight your way through heavy resistance before you would be able to do anything and most people aren’t equipped for that kind of fighting, not even the crazy guy down the street with 300 guns in his basement.

      • “Sensitive parts of the power grid with the potential to disrupt electricity to millions of people will be heavily guarded against partisan attacks.”

        Wrong.

        Hunting rifles can shoot the high-tension powerlines anywhere from the power station to your local sub-stations.

        That’s tens of thousands of miles of HV lines to guard. It can’t be done.

        Period.

      • It simply isn’t possible to defend the US electrical grid. It is almost all exposed, above ground, and much of it out in areas where no one will even hear a thing. There aren’t enough people in uniforms to protect even the substation infrastructure positions, never mind transmission lines. You could pull down high voltage transmission lines with little more than a battery powered saw, and do it in a way that waits for the next high wind storm to confound a government response.

        And if the Ivy Leaguers deploy the US military to protect electrical infrastructure, then what are they going to use to respond to attacks on people and government offices?

        Revolutions and civil wars are zero-sum games, and they’re not fought by Marquess of Queensberry rules. In the end, the installed elites depend more on infrastructure and organizations more than the people who are making problems for them. Even a relatively small domestic uprising in the US will cause the elites to invoke martial law, and any effective clamp-down (ie, martial law) would crater the US economy, causing the US banking system as well as the regulated exchanges, to implode.

      • I don’t know where you live, Joe Snow, but the power grid everywhere I’ve been in Ohio is pretty much wide open. There’s even a power plant down on the Ohio where hunters walk in and out of the grounds at night to poach deer.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalf_sniper_attack

        The Metcalf sniper attack was a “sophisticated” assault on PG&E Corp’s Metcalf Transmission Substation located outside of San Jose, California on April 16, 2013, in which gunmen fired on 17 electrical transformers. The attack resulted in over $15 million worth of damage.[1][2]

  59. We would have to have a military coup to really change things. Who says the military coup wouldn’t be worse than what we have now. Especially when we have the fed clearing out officers who are defenders of the constitution (oath keepers)

  60. Every state and every town in America where they support gun rights needs to form it’s own militia like Texas has so that they can be prepared to respond quickly and en masse when the day arrives when they come for your guns. Without an organized force to confront them, they will simply go to your houses one by one with overwhelming force, take your guns while you watch and kill you if you resist then they’ll move on to the next house until they have every gun and most of the gun owners are dead. You will not survive a government purge of firearms from private hands if you are alone. And don’t think “Oh, I’ll just run away and hide in the woods with my guns”, either. The government isn’t stupid. They know the first place all you prepper types are going to run to is the woods. They will have snipers waiting for you at the top of every tree and behind every rock. You won’t make it two steps into the woods before you’ll be dead. Organizing into an effective combat unit is going to be your only defense.

    • Ridiculous. How long would it take to go door-to-door and confiscate all the weapons in just Arizona alone? Not to mention that all the cops and all the soldiers put together are still vastly outnumbered by the citizenry. How many officers would need to die in these door-to-door raids you envision before the rest of them decide they don’t want to risk it? Not many, I’d wager. There’d be dead on both sides, to be sure, but I’m willing to bet that the confiscators would blink first.

      Also, how would they know they got *all* the guns? After they hit the first few houses, there’s going to be a lot of busy shovels.

      • Right, it’s never happened except all the places throughout history that it has. And it starts with the same batch of turds pushing gun ‘control,’ with the rest of the general pop. standing around dumbfounded saying it could never happen.

        Anyone freekin read “Democracy in America” (Vol. 1 & 2) – Alexis de Tocqueville? You dont have to get past pg.8 (Vol. 1). Shits already played out but people think its ok to try the bs buffet of liberal crap again?
        FU

        • In places that have confiscated guns in recent history, the guns have been largely given up voluntarily. They’re also places that had strict controls in place for a long time leading up to the confiscation (thus the authorities know who has what), and with a much, much smaller number of guns in circulation. What works for small island nations doesn’t necessarily translate well to a continent-sized country with 300 million guns in private hands.

          I’m not saying they don’t want to do it, or wouldn’t try if they thought they could get away with it. I’m saying door-to-door SWAT team confiscations like those described by JoeSnow are logistically impossible. That’s why the antis are playing the long game of trying to change the culture. They know Americans won’t just voluntarily give up their guns to the government, so they have to try tactics like brainwashing kids in schools.

        • @Stinkeye, indeed…it will be far more feasible logistically and tactically to simply tax guns our of existence, offer a buy back amnesty deal and then follow it up with some severe fines and prison terms….no need for door to door when people will flock and e them up willingly with smiling faces a la Australia.

      • Why would they give a 3 officer police dept. 30 M14′ s, 30 M9,& 15 Vietnam era. 45s. Along with. The authority to deputies up to 30 untrained persons in a town of 268?
        I was there when the weapons and. Ammunition came in and had to show them how an operation rod worked as some chambers were loaded. This was about 5 months ago. They requested golf carts got m14 & carts. For those that wanna call BS there was a news video on YouTube. Since the dept chief now tries to follow my posts Google small SC dept.

    • What he said !!

      This isn’t 1778 in a number of respects. The firepower of the government completely outclasses what citizens today can muster (in large enough numbers to make much difference). Yes, hit-and-run tactics will inflict casualties, but once the mean green machine gets rolling….

      Just a bunch of overly optimistic gun owners are not a skilled militia. Just a bunch of gun lovers are not capable of coordinated effort. Just a bunch of brave rebels are not enough to overthrow any government. Thinking that the majority of police and military will defect is not particularly encouraging. The police and military took an oath to defend “….against enemies foreign and domestic.” (that, by the way, would be us). We are way too comfortable as a nation (as opposed to 1776 or 1861) to expect a majority, or even a large minority, of the public would rise up in defense of firearms. Talk about a small core of guerrillas defeating both the police and military of this country is fun, but not something to count on for victory. Maybe the most notable, but hardly successful, instance in modern times would be the French Resistance to Nazi Germany. The FFI inflicted noticeable damage, tied down troops in counter-insurgency operations, killed a respectable number of German soldiers. BUT….the FFI did not discourage the German Army, did not dissuade the German Army, did not defeat the German Army (an army with few, if any, constraining rules about dealing with partisans or citizens of captured nations).

  61. I doubt it. But if there is, it’ll be hijacked by the religious right and will advocate for a theocratic “democracy”, rather than a truly free state. Not that they’ll win anything other than being the excuse for an even larger rapid expansion of federal powers on the rest of us.

  62. It will not be guns or a finical collapse that starts this party. It’s going to be rule of law.

    When the coastal controlled Federal government keeps making laws that infringe on the lifestyle and beliefs of flyover country those laws will be lackadaisically enforced or not at all by local governments. Federal agents will either face resistance passive or other wise or they will slack off enforcement of laws offensive to the communities they live in. The federal government facing losing power and control must either repeal those offending laws or force compliance.

  63. Near theend of the term of every POS (D) pres. [i know, redundant], you get three things: 1) the freaks come out @ night a/k/a, SCOTUS, gun controllers, abortionists, legalizers, illegals, all looking to push their agendas; 2) you have a-hole (D)s pushing the bullshit that republicans are just the same as (D)s when its really the case of many repubs beeing too similar in a few ways, and the rest of the ways the house of (D) sucks satan’s a_ _ all on their own; 3) you get ‘reverse saber rattling’ straw men erected regarding those that speak of the next Civil War as though they’re dangerous, when all along those same people have been begging for one, as though they can’t believe people have staid their hand this long.
    Every Govt that ever existed was made up of people and those people are/have been (essentially) you a_ _hole neighbors needing jobs, along with the other as_hole neughbors that helped them get elected. Those people do not rate any higher than the citizenry they asked to be permitted to serve. They (Some of them) want your guns because history has proven that, at the end of the day, when the people throw off the old guard (and the guard’s families/homes/dogs) all bets are off.
    Keep your guns for the end of America, so that you’ll have a chance to vote in what comes next. Conservatism is what will restore us to where we are at now though, the rest are just playing with themselves.

  64. If civil war ever broke out, it would almost be certain it was over Secession. But i think the first civil war was a lesson learned..

  65. “But there will be sporadic acts that remind the all-powerful state that there still is something called “freedom.” Ask Bill Ayers.”

    AYERS WANTED TO IMPOSE A MONOLITHIC TYRANNY worse than any failed system we have now.

    You sound like you think Ayers is a hero to be emulated.

    I and many here (who do NOT worship the all powerful state) wish he had blown himself and his cohorts to hell decades ago.

  66. Being human, I hope for salvation in the 2016 elections. Being a student of history, I see the inevitability of war. It is some years away, but it is coming…this I am sure.

  67. Good comments all around. Couple issues that I note,
    1st is the belief that we can some how win the war for gun rights. At best we can maybe maintain a good holding action.
    Rest assured in the knowledge that we are on the short side of the numbers game. Our side gets smaller and smaller. While the takers are growing by leaps and bounds. Once enough of us old farts die off and they have attained critical mass of voters.
    Its a done deal. They will gleefully vote away all our freedom. Starting with the right to keep and bear Arms.
    That die was cast with the loss of the family farms. Nothing can stop it. Its just a matter of when.

    The real question that needs answering is what happens after. When the Government using Home Land Security via the Patriot act. Start at first targeting the most radical gun groups. ( there are a few) Those will be covered front to back by the news Media. Until they are no longer a big event. Then they come for you and no one will be looking.

    What are we gona do?? Actually what are YOU gona do? I will be long gone, dead.

  68. If America has another civil war/revolution it will look very different from the way it was fought in the 1770’s or even the 1860’s – and I am not talking about technology. Americans today are of a different woop and warf. A future war on American soil will look alot more like every other civil war and revolution – think Lebanon in the 1980’s, The French Revolution, or Iraq now (Mexico too). More smolder and less bang. A few things are certain:

    1. America is too big to fail alone. If such a war should happen it will have at the least global implications – heck the thing may even be partly fought outside of America.

    2. If the U.S. had not let off some of its angst and distracted its citizenry by one foreign war after another, a war at home (again) would have happened already.

    3. As long as there is a personal, ongoing, and Federal income tax – America will not live up to the principles that gave rise to its founding.

    4. Humans will fight and fornicate.

  69. Not if but when, People never involved in a war Talk for War! People having been in war wish it no More!
    Every Society has it’s boiling point! More people are Weaponizing, but nothing like historical days when it was required to have a weapon too go too church!
    you can be sure that in the aftermath you will have a being who will blame a Minority of some kind! and follow this creed for unification and glorification of Country but most of all Self. and we will be worse off than previously! {Liberty, Inflation, moral and ethically wise}
    Look at what the Nazi did for Germany and the Jewish Nation being blamed for WW1!
    Be very careful when you speak of giving civil War, their will be groups that make the VC look like Saints this will all happen in the name of Good
    Bundy Ranch certainly could have been a catalyst, all because a Politician’s son wanted too make some money off land not owned!
    Be prepared, beware of Snakes in the Grass, especially the brother hood of legal crooks! {Political entities}

  70. Launching a civil war or insurrection against the federal government would be monumentally stupid as it might well destroy the republic and lead to a dictatorship replacing it, as that is what usually happens. You only engage in armed resistance to the government if facing an absolute tyranny, as Jefferson described, such as if a dictator has taken over, shut down the legislature, has the military on his side, and is engaging in wholesale slaughtering of the American people. Before armed resistance, you would try peaceful resistance. Armed resistance is a last resort for the most extreme scenarios.

    • @Kyle, well said…. I think the correct way ahead is the Article V convention as advocated by Mark Levin. All stops must be pulled to make it peaceful before force of arms is applied. Once you go down that road, there is no telling where it will end. And it will be gruesome for both sides….not exactly a win win.

      • I absolutely agree with respect to the Article V convention.

        However, if you expect the entitlement dependent States to willingly accept that outcome you will be wrong. At that point, they will have nothing to lose.

    • God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independent 11 years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. – Thomas Jefferson, 1787

      • Love the BOLD print , it really stood out and drew my attention to what you said and made it more BELIEVABLE , I am sold on your comments . Actually , your comments are compelling and appreciated , REALLY . Just poking a little fun , God bless .

        • 🙂

          To clarify, I wanted to quote the least amount as possible so people wouldn’t have to wade through a long quote but at the same time not fragment the quotation. So, figure that the bold text is what I really am quoting and the rest is context. Also, if I had left out the last two sentences of the quote, someone would’ve undoubtedly come along and pointed out that it was missing since that bit is particularly popular and well known.

  71. I’ve said for years, we are being bred out. The takers continue to reproduce at an alarming rate compared to the makers. Responsible people realize it is hard to actually raise and PARENT children. Not sure what comes next, but it won’t be pretty.

  72. “The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed…”
    Silveira v. Lockyer, 328 F3d 567 at 569-570 (9th Cir. 2002) Kozinski, A., dissenting.

    “An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

    “This year will go down in history for the first time a civilized nation has full gun registration, Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future”-
    Adolf Hitler, 1935

    “On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results.”
    Benito Mussolini

    “If I could have banned them all – ‘Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns’ – I would have!”
    Dianne Feinstein

    “All we ask for is registration, just like we do for cars.”
    Charles Schumer

    “A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie.”
    Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

    ““We don’t let them have ideas. Why would we let them have guns?”
    Joseph Stalin

    “The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.”
    Karl Marx

    “Your children’s children will live under Communism. You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept Communism outright; but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of Socialism until you will finally wake up and find that you already have Communism. We won’t have to fight you; we’ll so weaken your economy, until you fall like overripe fruit into our hands.”
    Nikita Khrushchev, 1959.

    “There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism – by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.”
    Ayn Rand

    “Can any of you seriously say the Bill of Rights could get through Congress today? It wouldn’t even get out of committee.”
    — F. Lee Bailey

  73. I’m sure the loss of gun rights will add a straw to the back of the camel named Revolution, but economics and the loss of the middle class will be the real breaking point, in my opinion. Once we are unable to afford that new car, the anger will start. They are trying real hard to keep that from happening with 7 & 10 year car loans. Those people that did that will find that they owe more than the trade-in value when they go to get another one in 3-5 years, and then you will see things start to spin out of control. Greed is our problem. The rich have decided that greed is good, and are doing everything to keep and amass more money. They have kept wages stagnant in a blue collar based economy, which will lead to revolution, as the French found out some time ago. You’ve seen inklings of this already in the Occupy Movement and the 15 Dollar An Hour marches. Soon, the disaffected middle class people and those two groups will unite, then the revolution will begin. Politics will be set aside I think. People will march on Congress. The people know that they are taking bribes from the rich people and major corporations, and they will want an accounting.

  74. “Though large in number, they’re politically disengaged. Why participate in a system that never listens to your desire to reduce the size of the system?”

    Speaking truthfully, if they’re so large a number if they WERE politically engaged, they would make a difference. If what you assert is true, that they are not politically engaged, then they have no one to blame but themselves.

    “Them” is a euphemism. I am one of “them”.

  75. This kind of post is why “People of the Gun” can’t convince the average swing voter we are not, frankly, nuts.

    And the wheels came off with equating _both_ the ACA and marriage equality decisions with big government. The marriage equality decision made government a little smaller (getting government completely out of that subject would be a better outcome–these things take time).

    Small government folks have a candidate–Rand Paul. But he pisses off social conservatives, who really aren’t interested in small government.

    And so it goes.

    • The “swing voter” is irrelevant. He just doesn’t want to stand up and be counted.

      Rand Paul has proven to be a nutty as his old man.

  76. Second civil war maybe but unlikely.

    1. Geography kinda messed with the idea. Maybe the western center? LA TX OK and MT WY NB ID I could maybe see but CO? NV? NM not likely.
    2 political will. On both sides. I’m in Texas and I doubt 50 % of people would vote to leave, but let’s say we did and OK and LA went with us. Do you really think some gay couple in VT or some hippy couple in SF is going to want to send their son to die to keep OK from leaving the union?
    3 political advantage – the states that are likely to leave are not swing states. That means that if say TX,LA and OK left they would eliminate 4 of the strongest repiblican senators and many of the furthest right in the house. No district in OK voted for Obama it’s the redest of red states. The result of a split would leave the left in a really good position, until they went broke.
    4. Weak federal government. Yes they are weaker than you think. Why did we not send federal troops into CA and CO to enforce federal drug laws? How come federal groups are not enforcing real ID?
    The fact is that big programs like the war on drugs or any meaningful federa gun control have to rely on local and state cops and deputies to make them work. If the police refuse the work In mass OR if their employers ( states counties and cities) simply outlaw their cooperation, the Feds are defanged to a big degree. This nullifies many unpopular laws in a state.
    5 bribes. If TX say put a referendum, even non binding, on the ballot asking if we should stay or Persue a LEGAL and Peaceful separation , the U.S. would lobby HARD to keep that vote small and also do just about anything to keep us in.” Want to keep your guns Texans NO PROBLEM. You guys drop this referendum bullsh@t and well exempt you from federal fire arms laws hell well even give you tax breaks to buy more guns. ” don’t believe me? Ask Canada what happens every time BC threatens to leave. Or Scotland and the UK. Remember Lincoln ( the facist tyrant he was) offered to protect slavery in the constitution if the south would stay.
    6. Media and the international community. It’s real hard for leftists to condemn Israel and not support the rights of a state to leave if it’s people in fair and democratic elections are calling for succession. It’s even harder to object to one sovereign polity like a stfe leavin a union than it is to argue for the formation of a state to accommodate a stateless people ( Palastinians , kurds, etc)

  77. The war is already over and we lost. The fact that Millenials care FAR more about legalization of marijuana than their rights tells us everything we need to know about where we will be as a country in 20 years when they are running things.

    • The drug war is a big government screw up. Straight out of the progressive error playbook too. Just like prohibition, gun control, price controls etc. ending the war on drugs is a huge step in the right direction. States doing it alone ( like they did with alcohol prohibition) is a good thing for federalism.

  78. Bottom line, that this will happen is not in question. Probably within five years. The side that the active duty military decides to fall in with will win because unfortunately guerilla armies lose every battle against professional standing armies. Unlike Vietnam or Iraq, DC won’t throw in the towel when the issue is control of it’s own backyard. That got proved in 1860-1865.

    All that said, the best bet is to tailor your loadout to your most likely enemy. Get a plate carrier with plates, and then a 5.56 that takes AR15 mags if you don’t already have one. Buy at least a dozen reputably reliable mags(wear six, rest goes in your pack) and as much cheap bulk ammo as you can to train with. Steel cased will work fine. Then find a training school in your area that specializes in shooting while moving where you never hear the phrase “unload and show clear.”

    Your second most likely opponent is a foreign invader from the UN. Ranked in order of popularity you will need a rifle that fires (1) 5.56 from an AR15 mag (2)7.62 x39 from an AK mag (3).308 with no clear popular mag choice (4) 5.45 from AK74 mag. The Chinese use a proprietary 5.8 cartridge that they don’t share, so you’re going to have to pick one up off the ground.

    DMR’s are less important that you think. In odd calibers they are a logistics problem.

    Also, dropping your mags in the dirt is a great way to lose them on a battlefield. In a guerilla war you cannot count on any sort of logistic support, so start training to hang on to them.

    As for a handgun, there is no clear popular choice in brand or model, but the cartridge is overwhelmingly 9mm Luger. Any double stack 9mm will do. Whatever you buy it will be a crapshoot whether you can get more mags for it, but you will be able to get more rounds from the enemy dead and ammo dumps, etc. Another reason to start training to retain your mags.

    If the 2nd Amendment had been respected we would have access to every single weapon and piece of gear that the US military uses, and our sheer numbers would be enough, but that isn’t the case. Had we javelins and stingers available their air and armor could be effectively countered, but that isn’t going to happen. IEDs didn’t really do the job in Iraq, they won’t here either.

    If the military sides with the government it’s over. You can die fighting or live on knees at that point. But you can expect one or the other.

    • Also, you’re going to want to start buying mags for what you PLAN TO BUY. Do it RIGHT NOW. If you don’t end up buying the relevant rifle you can sell the mags at hyper inflated prices after the mag bans go into affect.

      Jeb Bush and most of the other Republican candidates will support mag bans. They may even go full Clinton AWB.

    • (3).308 with no clear popular mag choice

      One caveat to this, the FAL was very popular worldwide. The M14 WAS NOT( I own one). Neither was the AR10.

  79. California will not fight to keep the union together. Mississippi will not fight to keep the union together. Nor will any other state fight to keep the union together. The states who are willing to use their own natural resources will do just fine.

    New York State and California who refuse to build new power plants will spend money like it grows on trees until the lights go out and stay out. After that who knows what will happen?

  80. Just wanted to point something out for all the guys here who talk about the inevitable civil war and how the feds will start it…

    If you’re actually right, then all of you will be the first to see the FEMA detention camps, before the first shot of the war even happens. Because, based on your comments here alone, you’ll be raided SWAT-style in your own homes at night (in fact, quite possibly, it will actually be SWAT, say, with some fake drug charges).

    Probably me too, now that I’ve posted. So if you’re right, I’ll see you at the barracks.

    • So if you’re right, I’ll see you at the barracks.

      I think that armed conflict is inevitable unless people are willing to allow the nation to transform into an Orwellian hellhole. IMHO, the only third way out might be continuous mass civil disobedience. Such a disobedience movement would have to be huge and unrelenting. I don’t think that’s going to happen. So, save me a bunk at the camp. We have much to discuss. 😀

  81. I am always reminded of the IRA . Not the retirement plan but the Irish Republican Army . In the 1920s they consisted of 645 men and 247 firearms yet they brought Ireland to a standstill. My local gun club has 2,200 members and a lot more than 247 firearms. No, this will be a 500 yard war where all the fighting will be at 500 plus.

  82. These two approaches to government cannot coexist forever. There will be a showdown.

    Yep.

    The first American revolution was fought over the sovereignty of the states, then colonies. The second American revolution was fought over the sovereignty of the states, called the Civil War. The third American revolution will probably be fought over the sovereignty of the states. I am favoring articles of confederation.

    • John , your comments are well taken , sorry about the nag on bold print , your reason taken and understood . I won’t see you in the internment camps , not for me . You’ll most likely will never know I existed . Just another casualty of the conflict between the gun nuts and the confiscators , or you may see me when I come to rescue you with about 20,000 of your fellow countrymen . I’ll be looking for you . You will probably stand out from the rest in BOLD . Oops , I hate it when I do that . Sorry again , can’t seem to stop myself . All in good fun . I seriously don’t know if guns and ammo will fix the next revolution or civil war . I think tools and seeds may be more practical but I might have me an arsenal just in case . Good luck , I will have your back if the occasion arises .

    • John, I’ll reply here to your earlier comments regarding an Article V convention since it is relevant to both threads and you’ll find it easier here.

      First, I do think you’re right. It is nearly inevitable and it will almost certainly be over State sovreignty vs. Federal sovreignty. I don’t think it will be the end of the federal system as you do, but it will certainly be a restoration of the originally intended balance.

      I think the inevitablility is due to one of two reasons. Either the Free States will have no more of the Federal government’s transfers of wealth or the Welfare States, seeing their source of handouts disappearing will realize they have no choice but force if they are to retain their system.

      Part of the reason I’m in such support of an Article V convention is ethical more than anything. I know that both Progressives nor the Welfare States will reject the outcome of such a convention if it takes place in this or the next generation. However, conscience demands that I have shown before both God and man that we have exhausted all political options and that violence was forced upon us.

      There are some that just want to have a fight or have an “all about me” attitude. They don’t understand the difference between the American and French revolutions. I’ve read enough of your posts to know you are not that kind of person.

      I would consider you and I to be different sides of the same coin. Both sides are necessary. One provides the conscience before our friends and the other the resolve before our enemies. Without that moral and philosophical justificaiton, we are little better than the French Revolution.

      One last thought, and this isn’t directed towards you at all. I’ve seen too many posts who write off the ability of the people to successfully engage the Federal government. They seem to assume that because they do not believe that we can engage in a field battle in Illinois with heavy armor or a fighter dogfight in the Missouri air we cannot win. To those people, I would say that a) you don’t understand the nature of this war, b) you underestimate the resources in private hands and c) as John points out, it will involve the States as well as the People against the Central Government.

      Thanks for your thoughts, John, and for keeping us honest.

      • In my view, we’ve given the strong central government approach (ala Constitution) ample time. It hasn’t worked out so well. I would like to give the original intention, a confederation of sovereign states, a run for at least more than a century and see if that doesn’t pan out better. Patching up an already defunct federal system is inviting similar failure. Of course, this is all my subjective opinion.

        • Along that line of thinking, I would note that the most important achievement made by Progressives was the passage of the 17th Amendment. In that one victory they were able to disenfranchise the States. You cannot exercise sovereignty without a voice. At that point, today’s mess became inevitable. In a lot of ways, this amendment did even more harm to States rights than the Civil War – and yes, I do understand what I’m saying.

  83. “A more fundamental fracture in the body politic lies beneath the surface . . .It’s the gulf between citizens who believe in Big Government and those who favor small government.”

    Sorry, but that is NOT correct. The divide is between those in favor of LIMITED government versus those who believe that government HAS NO LIMITS. I can find nothing in the Founders’ extant writings that would indicate that they were at all concerned with the “size” of government. The Constitution certainly imposes no limits upon the size of government. What the Constitution DOES limit is the POWER of government and thus its SCOPE. As Jefferson’s terribly abused and misapplied statement about the 1st Amendment implies, the Constitution was intended to build a wall around the federal government; not to protect the government from any outside influence but to establish the LIMITS of government. The constitution was intended by its framers to delineate exactly how far the government was to be allowed to go AND NO FURTHER! Article 1, Section 8 explicitly enumerates precisely where Congress may legislate. For good measure, Section 9 goes further and explicitly lists areas where Congress is PROHIBITED from legislating. And to wrap things up nicely (or at least so those poor, ignorant, unlearned, deluded sods, the Founders thought) Amendment 10 explicitly states that any powers not expressly given to the federal government in the body of the constitution were forever to be reserved to the states or to the people. And that SHOULD have been THAT.

    Unfortunately, the constitution is merely words on paper – nothing more. Words – on paper or spoken – in any case have no power in and of themselves to alter or affect the actions of human beings. Words can only affect the actions of human beings if and when other human beings elect to apply force to COMPEL compliance with the strictures delineated in those words.

  84. It’s often been said that some small, normally insignificant, event is what touches off a major change. Think of modern America as a powder house w/ numerous fuses burning at various rates toward it w/ blue colored fuse typically having a slow burning rate, green colored fuse a medium rate, & red colored fuse having the fastest rate. For decades there’ve been many blue fuses burning at various times for various reasons & occasionally reaching the green fuse stage before stopping. The first Civil War (the Revolt against England) & the second Civil War (the Southern Revolt against the North) were the only times the red fuse went all the way into the powder house & set it off. The blue fuse of the Depression was just about to light the green fuse that, IMO, quite likely would’ve resulted in another revolt if the Pearl Harbor attack hadn’t occurred & stopped the ignition chain. In the 60s/70s America went well into the green fuse stage before the end of Viet Nam, a recession, & the elections of Reagan/Bush #1 largely ended that ignition sequence w/ minor re-ignitions/stoppages occurring in the 90s during the Clinton admin & a long interruption during the Bush #2 era. The election/re-election of Obama & his subsequent actions have re-lit some fuses that were already into the green fuse stage & accelerated others to the red fuse stage w/ many of those who would normally be expected to try to slow/stop/reverse the ignition sequences (Republicans/conservatives) actually increasing the burn rates.

    And this situation hasn’t gone unnoticed by an ever-growing number of Americans despite the best efforts of both political parties & their press/media/academia/legal/business allies to conceal the hiss & smoke from said fuses thru heavy, & increasingly failing, use of misdirection/confrontation tactics. The ‘something’s about to pop & it’s now just a matter of what/when/where/who will start the party’ feeling has permeated the population causing many to think about &/or do things (‘prepping’/secession/rebellion) they wouldn’t ordinarily consider. Articles like the titular one are now (much to the dismay/irritation/anger of owah ‘bettahs’) commonplace, non-govtl military instruction websites/training schools have appeared & are gaining in popularity, & the ‘Great American Gun/Ammo Buying Spree’ that began in Oct 08 has lessened but shows no sign of stopping. Perhaps nothing will happen & things will settle down again, but if things continue as they have been or accelerate I sincerely doubt it.

    • Cassandra , nice work in your synopsis . I realize you shorted most of your arguments for our benefit and I’m sure you could elaborate in great detail on all your points and we would probably be in general agreement on most so I will leave it to stand on it’s own . I would like to add another angle you seemed to have missed . There is still a very large segment of our culture , fabric if you will allow me the color , that examines the events of time through the eyepiece of biblical scriptures and second coming prophecies . This is perhaps the greatest segment of the pepper community and a great percentage of future civil war combatants . These people view the whole world differently than those more secular folks . What happens in Israel and the Middle East is actually more relevant to a fundamental Christian than who marries who in Godless USA . The way America treats the Jew is more important than how a homosexual is treated . The holocaust against the North African and middle Eastern Christian has a bearing on these peoples overall attitudes toward the government and it’s positions it is taking at this time in history . The combination of all the events you described along with those taking place worldwide will drive the tone both politically and reactively here at home . Thank you for being informed and a student of history .

  85. This string has been interesting and entertaining. There is one dimension not yet addressed….background for the two previous revolutions. There is a common element between the first two, and now.

    There is a certain attraction to thinking that a grass-roots effort by dozens or hundreds of uncoordinated and USPONSORED bands of gun carriers can be successful. Let’s look at some (obviously not all) little discussed elements of our revolutions.

    The American Revolution and the Civil War (or “The late unpleasantness” as my forebearers called it) were the result, not the catalyst for political resistance. In short, a significant number of well-known, well-educated and well read political leaders. People rallied to these leaders, their speeches and their broadsides/handbills. Around this leadership consensus built that revolution was necessary and inevitable. From this structure were the militias and armies raised and energized to fight. Considering that both revolutionary forces succeeded in raising uniformed, drilled armies it is difficult to extrapolate that armed mobs (that would be us) could produce the political capital needed to focus the revolution and ultimately make it legitimate. The bottom line is disconnected, competing and undisciplined crowds do not succeed very long at revolting.

    Many like to point to Castro, Ho Chi Minh, and others as evidence of popular uprisings. This is erroneous. These leaders existed as the focal point of revolution. Armed groups then rallied to the leaders. We also often overlook that the revolutionaries were not limited to hunting rifles and handguns. The one example of dis-coordinated groups overthrowing their governance might be the Afghan people. But the organizing principle was universal…destroy the “other”. After which, the Afghans went back to tribal conflict.

    All the talk about a next revolution vents alot of steam, but sets-up or reinforces a false sense of the effort required to carry out an effective rebellion. Talk is fine, talk is good…but it is just talk. Don’t let all this noise lead you to believe revolution is just around the corner, or that an armed mob can succeed. To effectively overthrow a government requires a commitment and ability to endure hardship that is not widely demonstrated in our couch potato society. Talk about anything, get mad, get heated, but get real about what the talk supposedly leads to.

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