Simunition gun (courtesy policemarksman.com)

In your recent post Self-Defense Tip: Don’t Over-Penetrate a Room, you laid out a couple of scenarios. One was that there was a non-moving person laying on the floor during a home invasion. The other scenario added your screaming daughter in another room that you could not see. Your response to both scenarios is the same, walk out of the house and wait for backup. I get that you also say that there are lots of variables and that each experience may vary. But I think the main point was; don’t over-commit. Don’t go into any room you don’t have to. But in both of those situations, you have to go into the room . . .

Someone lying on the floor while someone else screams in another room is hardly a rare occurence. In fact, I’m sure it happens here in the US many times a day. As both a soldier and as a medical care provider, both here in Texas as well as multiple times in other countries as a soldier, I have experienced the situations you have listed above, except that it wasn’t my child, it was someone else’s.

The reality is that in both situations, there may be no threat to your life at all, and the only threat that may exist to either the person laying on the ground or the girl screaming is the lack of medical care for injuries they may have suffered. In fact, this is the most likely scenario.

Again, it happens every day here in this country. Your action of simply leaving the scene and waiting for the police to arrive, instead of assessing the situations and assisting with whatever medical care your can provide, will dramatically reduce the survivability of both of those injured. You may very well hear your daughter stop screaming because you waited for her to bleed out and die when there was actually no threat present.

The video you showed is good, and has some great tips for people, but doesn’t match your scenario at all, because the instructor continues to go from room to room. This is one place where police style room clearing techniques fail. If you are in your home already, and you have the people who are valuable to you in that room and not in need of immediate medical attention, don’t leave the room again.

Note I didn’t say don’t leave the house, I said don’t leave the room. You’ve already taken risks to get there, if you don’t have to get someone to medical attention or get another person, don’t take those same risks to get out. If someone wants to come get you, make them walk through that fatal funnel to do it.

In the basic scenario you proposed, upon seeing a person laying in the room, I would have treated them as a possible threat and approached that possible threat. I would have provided an abbreviated medical assessment to determine level of consciousness and mobility.

At that point, I would get that person out of the room. For the most part, that removes them as an immediate threat. If they can move themselves, I’d tell them to get out and watch them until they are out and away. If not, I’d drag them out of the house, provide immediate life saving care, call 911, then continue to clear the house only if there was an immediate need.

Someone screaming in the house is an immediate need. You don’t leave threats unaccounted for, and you don’t leave the wounded lying there to die either.

At that point in the scenario, your daughter screaming in another room, there are so many variables to go through. Many of them have to do with if she is communicating effectively or just screaming, or if there is someone else in the house attempting to verbally communicate. We can war game that out all day, but just walking away and hoping for the best is not a responsible option.

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67 Responses to Jon Wayne Taylor: RF Dead Wrong on Home Invasion Scenario

  1. Agree wholeheartedly. I know I’m not alone, the responses to RF’s piece were mostly one sided. Robert made good points, and maybe he is right to an extent, but that is just not what I would do in that sort of situation.

    • As long as I pay the bills I walk in to the room and assess the situation. If others cant handle that they should not be allowed to be parents.

    • First of all, let’s keep in mind that RF presented two very different scenarios. In the first scenario, you come home to a presumably empty house to find a guy lying on the floor.

      I agree with RF’s approach on this one. The correct response IS to exit the house and call 911. With all due respect to Mr. Taylor, it is in fact not my responsibility to render aid to anyone. I’m not a licensed first responder, doctor, nurse or any other credentialed health professional. As such I have no duty to provide assistance, especially to someone trespassing on my property. Unless Mr. Taylor holds some sort of professional license, even with his training, he does not have the legal responsibility to provide aid either. The moral responsibility is something else entirely of course, but frankly, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for an unknown intruder in my house.

      Like RF, I’ve done my share of Force on Force training and what it’s taught me is that trying to clear a house by yourself is foolhardy absent a really compelling reason. Mr. Taylor has both the experience and the training to do a lot better job than I could ever do and so for him, the answer may very well be to enter the room, but I suspect that even with his training, he’d acknowledge that it’s difficult to provide care to a patient while maintaining full 360 degree situational awareness. In a typical house, there are just too many places that a confederate could be hiding and all you’d get for your trouble would be a nice pine box.

      Now, the screaming child scenario is an entirely different matter. If I heard my daughter screaming and crying in my house, hell yes I’m going in. Fortunately, I live in a state where trespassers in my house largely forfeit their right to continue breathing, so I will enter my house quickly and with violence of action. I will do my best not to shoot an unarmed person, but if they are truly trespassing, then the line from “Unforgiven” comes back, “You just shot an unarmed man!” “Well, he should have armed himself.”

      • I agree.

        Unknown dude laying on floor in my house has no right to be there. i’m calling 911 and NOT helping him.

        And I’m not clearing rooms unless there is no alternative. Clearing rooms ain’t my business. I’m calling the cavalry and let the boys in blue earn their tax funds – that’s why we pay ’em.

        OTOH, daughter screaming gets all the help and firepower I have. I’ll call 911 if practicable but not waiting for backup. Someone’s dying, and it probably won’t be me, but if it is, then at least I died like a man instead of some limp-wristed flit-boy who rationalizes “securing himself” while his daughter is tortured.

  2. I didn’t read RF’s precessor article, but who the f*** is going to walk outside and call for backup when their daughter is screaming in the next room?

    What’s the point of being alive if you just sacrificed your daughter to stay alive?

    • I totally agree. Having spent a number of years as a lifeguard, I know the proper response to someone screaming: investigate and render aid.

      That being said, it doesn’t mean you go charging in; that can get even a trained lifeguard killed. You have to approach in a way to maximize your own safety, not for your sake, but for the sake of the victim, because if you get in trouble, you’re no longer a rescuer. SO you don’t have to go directly, you don’t go in blind — but you go. Indeed my trained instincts as a lifeguard would say to throw something first, which I think would apply here for the same reason it would in a rescue: get the attention on something else. In a lifeguarding situation, that means give the victim something to grab besides you, the guard; here it would give the hypothetical bad guy something to be distracted by.

      I can’t imagine a human being hearing someone screaming, presumably for help, refusing to budge, and keeping self-respect afterwards, regardless of the outcome.

      • I don’t care much about unknown dude laying on my floor in RF’s scenario, other than to make sure he is not a threat.

        the screaming daughter gets my attention, though.

    • Aaron,

      RF’s post yesterday included the statement that you are no good to your screaming daughter if a violent home invader kills you before you can save her. And once the violent home invader kills you, he/she is free to kill your daughter as well. And there is obviously a lot of truth to that.

      I believe a balancing approach is in order. Panicking and running-in with reckless abandon carries a very high risk of failure. Waiting outside for backup to arrive — which could easily take 20+ minutes in many locations — also carries a very high risk of failure.

      Let us be honest. You are in an extremely dire and dangerous situation if you come home and violent home invaders have your son, daughter, or spouse in a back room. There is no “good” course of action for such an awful situation — ALL courses of action suck. Nevertheless you have to play the hand that life just dealt to you. Sometimes that means you or a family member will not survive.

      As I posted yesterday, I am going to play the odds that the violent home invaders have handguns, that they will NOT put a central nervous system shot on me as I breach the room where they are holding my family member, and that I will be able to function for at least 10 seconds even if shot … which is more than ample time for me to incapacitate the violent home invaders. I may not survive. So be it.

      • You are absolutely right Uncommon_sense, that a balancing act is in order. I would propose that 99% of us as part of our EDC have a cell phone of some sort most with a speakerphone. Place the call to 911 and put it on speaker in your pocket while you investigate. Get the good guys moving to back you up if something does go wrong, but don’t back out, you have to provide aid as was said before, but it doesn’t hurt to get backup for yourself as well. And the 911 recording can be a valuable piece of evidence in the aftermath as well.

      • you are no good to your daughter if you “secure yourself” while he is killing her, either.

        when the situation is clouded by the fog and friction of war, the best course of action is to act audaciously and with tremendous firepower.

    • the point of being alive after you sacrifice the life of any relative is that you can still make a difference at other times and other places in the future (completely discounting the emotional trauma, here). the result of being dead (while your family member is also dead) is pointless; two dead does not equal anyone alive. the result of being dead while your family member is alive is you are still dead, they still don’t have you in their life, you can never again do anything to help them.

      i note JWT states, “most likely”. that means “maybe you get lucky”. sacrificing two or more lives betting on “getting lucky” is a sucker bet. you, and everyone else, cannot know what your actions in the scenarios RF described will trigger. staying, moving in, moving out just may result in a reflex action by the BG, ending in the result JWT thinks you “most likely” will prevent.

      self-defense and protection of others is not a video game. it is a real as it gets. real people get real dead, even when they “do everything right”. the decision to clear a house should not be taken on-the-fly. better know ahead of time if you will make the attempt. also, it would be prudent to tell your closest that if a BG (or three) breaks in, the outcome is just as likely to be tragic no matter what you or anyone else does. prepare yourself for the worst, prepare your family for the worst.

      • unless you are marked for a fatwa by al qaeda or isis (and even then, most of them suck), your average home invader is NOT expecting a gun fight. your average home invader is more likely to flee when confronted with deadly force than fight to the death, as long as his escape route is not blocked.

        POTG need to stop strategizing based in the assumption that all home invasions are committed by delta force and therefore they must “secure themselves” and wait for 200 SWAT officers to show up while their daughter is getting ass-raped and stabbed to death.

        • it is the “most likely” part that is at the crux. planning on always meeting stupid, incompetent, frightened intruders is not prudent. have read too many home invasion news reports about gangs up to seven perps blasting into a home, shooting at anything moving. yes, “most of the time” these large gangs are not involved. but we only know that after the fact. just sayin’ that making a vain gesture is not the default reaction that should be promoted. and that is because 99 and 44 one hundredths of the population of gun owners has never face danger, never been faced with an aggressor, never had to stare down the barrel of a firearm, never learned how to shoot on the move, never had to make the decision (instantaneous) to kill another human, never been shot at, and therefore does not know how they will react. there are hundreds of things that can cause a “rescue” to go bad for the victims and rescuers. one slip (literally), one botched entrance through a doorway, one failure to recognize there is more than one BG (see walmart incident where civilian used a gun trying to stop an invasion, only to be shot from behind),

          btw, RF actually updated or at least tweaked, the kobayashi maru test.

        • when 7 guys home invade, it’s because you are a drug dealer and they want to rob you.

          and you can’t let fear of the highly improbable freeze you into not acting.

        • not talking about the drug wars. the stories that got my attention were invasions where entire families were at home and were beaten and robbed. but the question remains, “how alive will your family member be one minute after you are killed? three minutes? 24hrs?”. it may look and sound heroic, but leaving the rest of you family behind, without your influence, without your protection, without your contributions to their lives is not by default a positive outcome. does it happen that charging-in unaware, unprepared results in a successful rescue? YES. but the “most likely” outcome still favors the intruders.

        • you mean those stories where the limp-wristed flit-boy of a father lets himself get tied up, so as not to provoke the one or two bad guys, but then has to watch his family get beaten and/or raped, and then murdered anyway?

          like connecticut?

        • that scenario/event is very different from what RF posited. talking about being there to protect/care for the rest of the family. being dead does not help the member being attacked. being alive can help the remaining members .

        • you referenced home invasion stories you had read in the news (or something similar to that) as justification for your view. Those home invasions also don’t match the scenario.

          You state that you can’t help your family if you are dead; I say bullocks to that. If you save their lives in the process of losing yours, you helped them.

          If you let your daughter die so that you can survive, don’t try to pawn that off as altruism – I’m not buying that crap.

        • yes, i did bring in the home invasion example. the intent was to point out that one cannot count on the comment someone else made that the “most likely” event is the scumbag BG will flee once you walk in the door of your home/bedroom. was trying to underline the fact that it would be dangerous for everyone to presume only one attacker, a fearful attacker, a flee-prone attacker. as to blundering into a back room to save one family member, if the others in your family are not secured, and there is more than one perp, you could end up dead, saving no one. many posters here seem to follow the line that dying in vain is worthwhile. as noted by someone else, dying in vain does not prevent your assaulted daughter from being killed. in such an event, even if there is only one perp, the rest of your family is deprived of your protection and care in the future.

    • I agree. Your job as that girl’s father is to keep her safe. You don’t do that by walking away when she’s screaming. What kind of moral depravity would cause a man to react that way. I don’t even think Robert would do that, except that he is over thinking through scenarios and coming up with some very strange schoolbook solutions. The danger is that having thought these through this way he might actually perform the way he trains or envisions the situation and therefore might leave his daugther while she’s screaming.

      Let’s hope that no one is that depraved.

        • Are you planning to let them get killed while waiting for government police to come save you? If so, you probably aren’t going to be much help to them anyway.

        • Not at all. Moving them to safety, first, while doing 911. It is called triage; save the ones you can. Please be sure to email us after you have gone thru the door into the face of a possible bullet in the head.

        • Sam I Am: First of dipstick, read the scenario. You already went home and entered. Furthermore, if I had my daughter out, it wouldn’t be an issue know would it. You are making the ass-umption that she is wounded with your triage comment, but apparently your plan is to do triage while you are shot in your face and ass. I don’t give a damn about triage for the bad guy. Lastly, there are many ways to enter a building. A jeep through the front door is one way. Furthermore, my kids are grown and have been educated on things.

          What is the cop response time in your area? Fire Dept? How organized are the initial patrol cops going to be when they get there? Its good to understand these things BEFORE any kind of real scenario happens.

  3. I for one am thankful that RF not only allows but seems to encourage opposite viewpoints on this site. The site is better for it.

    Thanks JWT for supplying your viewpoint on this senario.

    • Well, Truth is the main thing around here. That includes multiple perspectives and opinions. JWT has shown in the past that he has a different perspective and life experience, and in sharing it he can give more insight into the possibilities.

      I think that this pair of posts works well to show that there is no certain wright or wrong way to react, and that it all depends on the situation. The only thing you can do is be as prepared as possible.

      • +1. RFs article was (perhaps deliberately) vague on exact details, which highlights the ambiguous nature of situations where you might have to make snap decisions. (plus generates a certain amount of commentary, which by sucking in folks from elsewhere, equals “page views, Nick, its all about the page views”)

        Like the blue on blue of plainclothes cops being shot by uniforms, while responding. Or a well meaning Good Samaritan breaking up a scuffle between a plainclothes cop and a bad guy being arrested. Or getting in the middle of the very dangerous domestic violence call, that I read cops hate most…

        Clearing rooms in your own house has to be one of the most variable of all scenarios, depending on what your assumptions to start might be…there is no one right answer, clearly if key info is unknown.

        So thanks for respectful opinions and articles – one reason I am here, and have been since about month2, is I learn so much from experienced commentators, and other noobs asking questions. Its changed my thinking, for the better, I hope, and there are few places online, where I trust that I am hearing from real guys with real experience.

        Thanks again for your service, here as well, JWT.

        • i’m not in the room clearing business, that’s what cops get paid for.

          i will rescue my daughter, though, and then go to ground and wait for the cavalry.

  4. I agree with most of what you are saying but this:

    “Someone lying on the floor while someone else screams in another room is hardly a rare occurence.”

    On its face it may or may not be rare and to be fair you touch on your experience not exactly mirroring this scenario. It is a significant difference to be an average Joe returning home to loved ones.

    The scenario of a person coming home and finding a stranger on the floor that either wakes up at just the right moment or is faking unconsciousness to ambush when they pass is either greatly under-reported or it is rare. On a priority list of things to train for I don’t know if it even has a place. It exists just so an instructor can say gotcha and pat themselves on the back.

  5. OK you are pretty sure no bad guy is present so you leave your family without rendering aid!! Why??? maybe if mother in law!
    Now if it wasn’t relation why are you there then? sounds like a wantabee! if you are so worried about your own skin why go into your house in the first place!
    Few points are valid, Lack of threat assessment for floored person!
    so by the time SWAT arrives they are always too late
    sounds like play book for anti gun crowd, run like hell let the professionals handle it !!

  6. Agree 100%. I honestly thought RF’s original article smacked eerily of the “get home to your family/wait for backup” mentality that is drilled into police cadets these days. Except in this scenario, you are home and your family needs you. The main goal for the majority of armed citizens is to protect one’s family, vacating the scene when my loved ones are in need is in direct contradiction to that goal.

    The whole point of being the level 0 responder is that you in fact respond. if I decide to retreat from my home when my loved ones are inside in need of help then what the hell was the point of being armed in the first place? In fact didn’t RF skewer the host of that anti-gun radio show for saying that if someone broke into his home he’d jump out of a window and leave his family so that he could run and ‘get help’? Isn’t this essentially the same scenario, leaving your family (who are already in need) to ‘get help’?

  7. I’ll use every bit of room clearing tactics taught to me by the military to get to loved ones. No room would go unchecked. God have mercy if I find you.

  8. The whole scenario was a well-constructed Kobayashi Maru. Plug the stranger on the floor? Uh-oh, he’s a neighbor or an off-duty or plainclothes cop who heard the daughter screaming and tried to help. Don’t plug him and he’s the bad guy playing possum. Jump on the stranger and tie him up, and while you’re doing that the other BG shoots you in the back. Leave and the other BG kills your daughter. The whole setup was a scam.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

    How about a nice game of chess?

  9. Someone’s probably already mentioned this but I’ll go ahead and say it again anyway:

    Robert Farago is an experienced CCWer. He may have even been to a few classes.

    But last I knew, he’s not an experienced firearms instructor.

    John

  10. If they don’t belong in my house and they are on the floor of my house… bad things are happening. Also, regarding screaming daughter addition: if it’s all ground floor I would sprint to call 911, then go for her window.

  11. Thank you JWT!!!
    Attempting to cautiously assess the situation before hosing the place down while doing a diving tactical roll into the room with the screaming person and shooting T-zones while hoping not to catch a round in the CNS because why else would you have a gun in the first place seems pretty damn reasonable to me.

  12. My personal opinion is to always secure oneself and call for help – at least establish that help is coming so reinforcements will deal with the perps in case things didn’t work out.

      • I think you misunderstood me, my center living room is a >360deg kill zone with an open 2nd floor. If I rush into that and there’s more than one perp with a gun, I’m pretty sure I’m not making it. At least if I called for help first, I’d be helping to make sure the perps _lose_. Your mileage may vary.

        • i understood you perfectly. what difference does it make if you survive if yhe way you survive is by letting your daughter get tortured to death?

  13. Wow, so glad I didn’t read that article. I think RF may have just been trolling so he could light up the switchboards. In either case, Here’s some solid advice. Don’t take advice from some dude on the internet.

  14. If the daughter is screaming in another room and some unknown dude is lying on the floor; then I still like the idea of getting some help from my large canine buddies.
    If some unknown guy is just laying on the floor, it might be smart to call 911 and try to assess his condition without getting too near him. The dogs might help out in this scenario as well.
    I do have problems with unknown people laying around my locked house, regardless of condition.

  15. There is another dimension to this: what if you have additional family members and they are filing through the door behind you? If that is the case, you are facing a lose-lose situation. If you back out to ensure the security of your family members who were following you in, you may sacrifice the family member screaming in the back room. If you proceed to the family member screaming in the back room, you may sacrifice the family members who followed you into the home and, even in you manage to neutralize the violent home invaders, you may not survive the breach.

    In other words, no matter what you do, family members and/or you may not survive a violent home invasion if you leave unarmed family members alone at home. The moral of the story: make sure your family member/s back at home are armed and able to take care of business when you are not there!

  16. I liken the scenario to one where a person is trapped in a burning car. Imagine there is an accident, and a person is trapped inside. The car is on fire. What do you do? If it’s a stranger, and it’s blazing away, I’m less likely to act to free them at the peril of my own life. Change the scenario to your own daughter screaming in the car on fire, and I’ll walk thru flames to get in and try to free them. It doesn’t matter if I die in the process, I’ll die trying. Logic doesn’t work in this instance. It’s pure emotion, and I’ll make the same decision every time.

    • Agreed, except for the part about “pure emotion”, because there is a cosmic logic to being willing to die for someone you care about – without that will, your tribe will die out.

  17. Who is RF? And why would I care what she says about a “home invasion?” Internet masturbation.

  18. I still can’t wrap my mind around this impression that one person can “clear” a structure.
    As someone who has never “cleared” a structure but who has spent prodigious amounts of time discussing the subject with friends in the military and law enforcement who have cleared a lot of them, my understanding is that if you can’t leave security in each room you clear the structure will never be “clear” because the bg or bg’s can simply re-occupy any room you leave. So you have to re-clear any doorway or room you turn your back to.
    This doesn’t even account for the fact that clearing each room takes enormous focus to achieve in the first place and you only have eyes on one side of your head (the front). Without someone to watch your back while you work a doorway (cutting the pie), even with the superhuman levels of situational awareness claimed by some, a bad guy can pretty much stroll up behind you and shoot you in your head.
    If I’m wrong, and bad guys think its dirty pool to go back into a room you just left or tiptoe up behind a person who’s attention is elsewhere, let me know.

  19. Parents are awakened by the sound of moaning from their daughter’s room.
    So the parents go to the daughter’s room.
    They are shocked to see a man dress in black, straddling their daughter with a knife to her throat. If the parents had withdrawn and called police as state law required them to do, their daughter would be dead. In MA there is no statutory right to self defense. It is a duty to retreat state.
    But the parents, with only their bare hands, were able to subdue the man who turned out to be a serial killer trucker from North Carolina. His DNA connected him to a murder in N.
    The killer chose MA and NJ for his victims. Can’t imagine why. Could it be the high likelihood of a gun free zone?

    • this scenario seems decisively different from the one RF postulated. Opening a front door and opening a bedroom door pose significant variations. the event you describe indicates the parents were already in the house, possibly next to the daughter’s bedroom. the travel time and direction are compressed, and there apparently no other indications of forced entry. traveling from a front door to a back room, or upstairs bedroom complicates things enormously. and, of course, there will always be particular incidents where the odds were uniquely favorable in the circumstances. unfortunately, without 100% certainty that “rescue” will always be successful for all the victims/relations, recommending from rare examples that a person ALWAYS rush to defense is a prescription for disaster, all around.

    • Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 278, Section 8(a): In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

      Want to change your comment?

      • Taxachussetts didn’t always have the castle doctrine – there was a case back in the 90s (I think) in which a Taxachussetts homeowner was indicted for busting a cap on a home invader because he “could have climbed out the back window” instead of defending himself!

  20. No one knows how they will respond until faced with the situation. It doesn’t take a clairvoyant to tell you what a father would likely do if their home was invaded and a child in a room was screaming. Your self preservation and good sense will likely go out the door. It isn’t a battle or war where you are prepared. Even a cop typically has a heads-up. A home invasion is about as bad as it gets and the reaction to such will likely be survival and primal in behavior. Afterwards the person may well be shocked to how they behaved or may find it hard to believe they did what they did.

  21. Instead of worrying about a home invasion, why not work on armoring your house and making it impregnable? How about several large dogs? Why not turn all bedrooms into panick rooms with soild metal / wood doors and deadbolts? I sleep best when my house is difficult to get into, my bedroom is armored like a panic room, and there are 2-3 pitbulls sharing the bed with me……i still have defensive firearms but i hardly can invision a scenario when it would even get to that…..also a light laser is a very important tool to attach to a home defense weapon, a quality model is only 200 ish and a chinese knovkoff is only 30 bucks off amazon, money well spent. So is money on solid doors , deadbolts, burgler bars, and large unfriendly to stranger canines….

    • A good way to avoid home invasions is to not be a drug dealer.

      then your risk is from randomn psychos, instead of being purposefully targeted.

  22. A small pack with a first aid kit, extra ammo, zip ties, a multitool, and other items u might need during a home invasion would be a wise investment. Its really nice to have the right tools for the job

  23. if they are males, or good with guns, they get to help you rescue the daughter. otherwise they run away and call the cops.

  24. This very good post brought up a thought. Are we becoming guilty of the “when your only tool is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail” syndrome? Because of our focus on gun rights, gun use, guns in general; are we going into every situation with the underlying thought of gunplay? It’s a balancing act for sure. Everytime the doorbell rings and someone I don’t recognize is there, I’m wondering will I need my gun? Fortunately, I never have.
    Food for thought.

  25. “Greater love has no man than he who lays down his life for a friend” Bible – John 15:13

    So how much more so is he who lays down his life for his family?

    Just saying – I love my family and if I hear a family member screaming, I’m going in to do what I can. Wait times where I live is 15 minutes. THEN when the first officer arrives on the scene he/she assesses the situation and they wait for backup. So in reality you could be waiting 30+ minutes before they do an emergent entry versus how long does it take to bleed out?

    If you can live with yourself knowing you abandon your family — good for you. I can and will not.

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