baltimore-riot-police-car-AFP-640x480

“Any cop who uses his gun now has to worry about being indicted and losing his job and family. Everything has the potential to be recorded. A lot of cops feel that the climate for the next couple of years is going to be nonstop protests.” – Unidentified New York City Police Officer in The New Nationwide Crime Wave [at wsj.com]

133 Responses to Quote of the Day: Incentives and Disincentives Edition

  1. Any cop who uses his gun now has to worry about being indicted and losing his job and family. Everything has the potential to be recorded.

    Outstanding! That is exactly the way it should be … and the very same situation that we mere citizens have faced, well, forever.

    • I think I know where he as trying to go with that comment and I’m hoping it was just taken out of context. Because you’re right and the quote as is does not garner any sympathy from my end.

      • Both of my brother-in-laws are cops and I’ve heard them say the same thing – they’re trying to claim that cops won’t fire when justified out of fear of being charged with murder. Except that’s a load of bullshit, because if it’s a justified shooting, any recordings would back it up. They’re just pissed that they’re rapidly losing their ability to do whatever they want with zero consequences.

    • But…..but, oversight and accountability make the job harder and more dangerouser……..cry me a river dude.

    • I don’t know about the criminal element, but speaking on behalf of the rest of us (probably 95% of the folks on the street), just treat us with the respect that you (the cops) desire we show you. If you don’t want our respect, you are in the wrong job and need to move on. Just showing the general public a high degree of respect will go a LONG way in resolving the bad attitude the public has towards law enforcement. Cut out the macho, superior, tough guy, hard-ass image. It makes you look like little bullies on the playground, which you may have been in your younger days.

      • This kind of thinking has enabled me to stop many arguments between fellow officers and assorted suspects, victims, witnesses, and even a few dangerously crazy people over the last six years. I preach it to anyone who will listen.

      • I remember a state trooper than I knew being invited to speak in front of a den of cub scouts. He immediately started in with the macho, superior, tough guy, hard-ass image bit that you talk about. It was a WTF moment. 9 year olds, dude! On the other hand, the guy that followed me in the cubmaster job, was also a state trooper and was one of the kindest, friendliest, outgoing people that ever worked with these kids. So it doesn’t work that way across the board, but there does seem to be a more than average share of douches attracted to the job.

      • Exactly. That’s why I support disarming cops just handing out tickets – they’d be a hell of a lot nicer and more respectful if they didn’t have the gun to make them feel big and bad.

        • Baltimore is getting the police force they wanted, now they have to deal with it. Here in Nebraska, we just had a cop and a POS thug get killed, and guess what, no rioting, the city came together and got thru it.

    • More like no sense at all.

      Aggressive policing has cut the crime rate. If the cops can’t do their job then anarchy ensues. Don’t fool yourself that gun ownership and concealed carry will save the day. They have all that in Missouri and it hasn’t had any effect. An armed citizenry aids the police. it isn’t a substitute.

      Back when the initial Ferguson riots happened I told you people that this was not about so-called militarized police or police abuse. it was about turning the streets over to the gangs serving the interests of the Democratic Party and the Faux Libertarian anarchists. We are getting the anarchy they wanted and it will end up destroying our gun rights.

      Anarchy how is it working out for you?

      • I don’t understand your reply tdiinva.

        I recognize the value of a police force that captures thieves and violent criminals when there is solid evidence that convinces a judge to issue a warrant for the arrest of said thieves and violent criminals.

        I do not recognize any value in a police force that harasses, detains, arrests, injures, and/or kills people who have not harmed anyone.

        I hope you would agree that government’s only legitimate authority is to secure our rights and capture/punish evil-doers. The most important question: who defines “evil”? If you say government, then government can define anything to be evil (like possessing a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16 inches). That is the exact problem that got us to this very situation.

        • Aggressive policing is by definition a form of harassment. You harass the bad actors. Don’t give this crap about how do you know they are bad actors? The neighborhood cops know pretty much who the bad actors are. That’s one of reasons that people Bill Cosby tells black teenagers don’t dress and act like a thug. Now that the police have cut back on “harassment” crime rates are soaring. The first responsibility and one of the few responsibilities of government is security against domestic and foreign threats, i.e, police and military powers. I don’t want hear this faux Libertarian BS about how citizens can the do the job better the police. At best a citizens police force will do no better than what have now and given what I see among the so-called armed intelligentsia they would probably do worse.

          The objective of both socialist and faux Libertarian anti-police rhetoric that a majority of TTAG readers buy into is to create anarchy. That is how revolutions are made. Only the socialist faction understands this. Faux Libertarians, like Mr. Mallory, buy into the notion that man in the state nature is a peaceful soul who will be engaging in market activity, getting high and having in infinite variety sex and peace reign just like John Lennon said. What will happen as anarchy spreads through society is that the government, with support of the people will impose order. The nature of man is the problem not the “class structure” or public law. Abolish either and noting will change except you get to live in a police state or a permanent Mad Max state of siege.

        • Don’t give this crap about how do you know they are bad actors? The neighborhood cops know pretty much who the bad actors are.

          I’m pretty sure if the framers of the Bill of Rights had meant to say “The authorities know who needs searching and who needs arresting, their judgement in such matters shall not be questioned”, they would have used words to that effect.

        • You remember the good old days of the beat cop? You know the guy everybody liked and respected? The guy from neighborhood? He did a lot of harassing of the bad element and did his best to turn around kids going the wrong direction. Sad to say but you got to let the bad actors know someone is watching. If you do that the bad actors act less badly.

      • “Aggressive policing”

        I’ll see your Aggressive Policing and raise you:

        “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

        • That quote doesn’t mean what you think it means. I guarantee you that the Founding Father would not be on the side of the mob. We know this for a fact based on the L’Enfant’s design for Washington DC. The broad avenues and punctuated by traffic circles was specifically designed as place to control the mob. Cannon could be placed in the circle to fire canister shot down the avenues to stop a mob. The Founding Fathers abhorred the mob as much as they hated leviathan. That is why they chose a Republic instead of a democracy which the identified as mob rule. Virtually all them would be considered “statists” by faux Libertarians. Even the much beloved Confederates were statists in the eyes of many here.

        • The broad avenues and punctuated by traffic circles was specifically designed as place to control the mob. Cannon could be placed in the circle to fire canister shot down the avenues to stop a mob. That is why Sherman tanks would be used to drive through buildings like they did in Aachen against the Nazis.

      • You mean chaos, not anarchy. Anarchy would be preferable to what we have now. Most Americans live in a state of anarchy every day. We don’t have a leader telling us how to live. Maybe the thought of not having a “daddy” to tell you what to do scares you? I don’t need the cops or the government.

        An armed populace is most assuredly a replacement for a group of armed government thugs, what you call a “police force”.

        • Actually, what is going on is anarchy. The surge in crime isn’t a product of independent actors. It is the work of organized criminal gangs. What is going on in Baltimore is no different that what goes on in places like Somalia. With the police not doing their job these areas are now effectively ungoverned and in control of the rival street gangs. This was the objective of both the faux Libertarians at Reason and the Obama administration.

          You live in a fantasy world where “armed citizens” will be “better: than government police. in all likelihood, and history shows it, they will damn sight worse. I would trust a below average cop to the right thing over most of the people here who rant about the police, you included.

      • When the police have the mentality of “shoot first and damn the consequences cause we have qualified immunity and will clear ourselves of any wrong doing” we have a problem.

        • More BS. All but a few incidents turn out to be justified. The cop haters just keep repeating the same few incidents time and time again as if repetition increases the number of bad acts.

      • You don’t know what anarchy is, do you…

        Hint, it’s not what Hollywood has convinced you it is. It’s not anarchy out there, it’s the empowerment of gangs and further suppression of armed citizens by a fascist government. The latter can’t exist in an anarchy.

        Seriously, you usually have some good things to say, but you’re flat out wrong here. In a true anarchy, there would be no consequences from any governing body for violence. Yeah, tell me a if white gun owner went Death Wish on gangs in Baltimore, nothing would happen to him from the government. Sure.

        • The statists want anarchy or at least the appearance of it. That would give them the apparent justification for a greater centralization of power, the other policing force Barry wants to create, or increased powers for current federal 3 letter organizations, and the concurrent crackdown/reduction/ elimination of more of our rights.

      • An armed citizenry aids the police. it isn’t a substitute.

        An armed citizenry predated modern policing. We can have a free society without police but we cannot have one without an armed citizenry. You’ve got it backwards.

        • Very good point John in Ohio. There are lots of places in the world where crime is not rampant and there is no police force.

        • Interesting observation. In general, crime, including homicide, in America is on par with Germany and France. Well, if you look at white and Asian and everyone else except blacks. They are out of control and 8x higher (even though they are only 12% of the population). That means they are on average 64 times as likely to murder.

          But cops in the U.K. don’t carry guns, and their crime rate, except for murder, dwarfs that of the US! Since their crime rate is exponentially higher than the U.S., and they get by without carrying guns, maybe our cops could do the same. Even accounting U.S. murder, it is only a tiny, tiny fraction of a percentage of serious assault resulting in bodily harm/hospitalization in the UK.
          .
          No guns for U.S. cops. If the U.K. can get by, why not us?

        • The way I see it, a police force is useful for things like serving warrants and assisting in the investigation of real crimes and apprehension of some suspects. Things like that, legitimate policing, really doesn’t require a large force. It’s all of the other things added on that seem to require this standing army of policing agents. Seriously, if the law dealt primarily with loss of property, life, and limb then we wouldn’t need a large police force. Citizens would be free to bear arms and defend themselves and their own properties. All the extra enforcement of government will is what makes for goon squads.

          Bottom line: Much of the law on the books today our government has no business making. What we have now isn’t a free society and those who choose to enforce these tyrannical laws are rightfully getting some push back from the People. This whole race baiting aspect is just the progressive agenda hijacking legitimate resistance to tyrannical government. Law enforcement works where the rubber meets the road and is feeling the heat from the progressives, libertarians, and conservatives due to major government over-reach. The only groups not waking up right now are the extreme statists and the clueless. (That’s not intended as an insult or name calling… I’m just trying to describe the groups.) What was once fringe is becoming mainstream. It might burn out and then again it might not.

    • As an armed citizen I am more worried about legal problems shooting somebody than the average cop. And that’s NOT the way it should be as professionals who work for the people should be held to a much higher standard. At least to keep their jobs if not to keep their freedom.

    • Exactly.
      “Any cop who uses his gun now has to worry about being indicted and losing his job and family. Everything has the potential to be recorded.”

      …and this is bad how?

      You would think this is how it is now.
      I mean if cops are only now starting to worry about this; either the current system is beyond broken and/or current LEO thinking is extremely disconcerting.

      • I’ve been told by cops that if they didn’t have immunity from their actions, no one would be a cop.

        • It’s not a problem for me in some circumstances. If cops could be held personally civilly and criminally liable for violating your rights it would go a long way toward cleaning up PDs. Right now you can be falsely arrested for doing nothing illegal and be subject to asset forfeiture for simply carrying money with you. Suing the PD barely covers the cost of righting the wrong (usually about $10K in an out of court settlement) and you play hell getting your money back. There is no personal liability for the cop, just the PD or city, so the cops laugh and say things like, “you may beat the rap, but you won’t beat the ride.” They don’t care.

          This is not a good attitude to have!

    • Bingo. Best make sure you get recorded doing the right thing then, eh bucko?

      The days of good ol’ boy police fraternities and favors amongst a communities legal wranglers are being brought to heel by, of all things, the smartphone. A small percentage of LEOs abused these under-the-table “benefits” and now it has begun to ruin it for all of them.

      To the good, I’m sorry your job just got a bit tougher. To the bad, you made this bed for yourselves.

  2. Honor the oath and don’t commit crimes. No indictments.
    It’s easy.
    Do the right thing, and do the thing right.

    • Doing the right thing might be hard, or it might be easy. Surviving the right thing, if that means a white cop justifiably killing a black youth, is a real b!tch. I bet Darren Wilson would agree.

      • There’s serious talk of a Mike Brown monument of some sort at the place of the shooting.

        The insanity never ends.

      • Did you expect the free lunch to last forever?…. Hard or easy, there is no excuse for not doing the right thing.. welcome to the real world.

        • I’m not sure who you are, anonymous Internet guy, but I’ve been working since I was 15. I can handle myself in a fight, but the issue comes when my family and kids are threatened. I’d have the same empathy for you if you had an incident like Zimmerman.

      • Although the Grand Jury found the Brown shooting justified, Wilson doesn’t get to be a cop any more and now has a giant target painted on his back. Sometimes the process is the punishment.

        All officer-involved shootings should be properly and thoroughly investigated, but Wilson was sent before a Grand Jury to appease the mob. The police and DA already had more than sufficient testimony and other evidence to know that Wilson was justified in shooting Brown, but the DA used the Grand Jury process as a peace offering to appease the mob. I understand, and believe, that not only must justice be done, but justice must be seen to be done – but the pendulem can also go too far, as was the case in Ferguson.

        It’s very easy for cops to retreat to a fully-reactive “bunker mentality” – essentially using the letter of their rules and procedures to reduce the risk to themselves, both pysical and legal.

        I hope all those hipsters who lament the loss of the 1970s NY which they never knew will enjoy the radical devaluation of their trendy lofts in Astoria and Williamsburg when taking the Subway out of Manhattan once again becomes a blood sport.

        • Sometimes the process is the punishment

          This. So much this.

          A man doing his job had his name dragged through the mud, a target painted on his back, and had to change jobs and addresses, all for having done nothing illegal. Similarly, the officers in Baltimore had their mugshots plastered over the papers, get a shiny new arrest record, and now must mount a legal defence, even though nothing had yet been proven to a jury.

          This strikes us as unfair, and well it should. However, the flip side is that these injustices are a feeble reflection of the routine burden placed on ordinary defendants in the criminal justice system. Most are poor, they won’t get a union lawyer, they’ll get whatever legal aid can provide.They won’t be released on bail, they’ll sweat it out in a cell. They won’t be suspended with pay, they’ll simply lose their jobs, and likely their homes. That’s if they make it as far as Booking. Freddie Gray didn’t.

        • Wilson is cannon fodder.. much the same way as cops view the public, ……. yu gotta break a few eggs to make that omelet.

    • I don’t think that is what he meant: I believe he is referring to the witch hunt and lynch mob mentality spurred by Obama’s remarks and media saturation of arrest-resisting cases distortion and half-truths BEFORE all the facts are in and a grand jury weighs the evidence. Zimmerman, the LEOs in Ferguson and NYC were tried, convicted, and rioted over before most of the facts were in. And the Mayor of Baltimore’s action and comments should outrage anyone who believes in the rule of law instead of anarchy. That is what he is talking about I believe. Police are afraid of losing their jobs just because Al Sharpton doesn’t like the way they do their job. the Ferguson officer did.

    • Not really true, sadly, when some people make a living out of the difference in race between one end of the gun and the other. The rest of the facts just don’t matter to them.

      • If the so-called good cops don’t want to be tarred with the bad cops’ brush, then they need to turn in bad cops and clean their own house. As long as they don’t, they are bad cops themselves, and I have zero sympathy at best.

        If they kept their house clean, it would not provide any opening for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

        It’s a very simple proposition.

        • Exactly my point. There are no good cops, only bad cops and badder cops. When they want my respect, they know what to do. But as long as they have immunity, they have no incentive to want anybody’s respect.

          It’s their bed, they made it, they want it, and now they get to lie in it. Their whining is tiring.

    • There are half a dozen Baltimore cops who would disagree with you on that one. We’ll see how the cases play out, but it’s clear at least that the six officers were politically targeted by a rogue prosecutor, overcharged, and that the fix was in.

      Same thing with Zimmerman. Detectives on the scene and the local prosecutor found it fair. That wasn’t good enough for the Rent-a-Riot racebaiters, though. So a hack prosecutor was brought in to get him. Thank God the petit jury saw things straight, at least long enough to render a not guilty verdict.

      Even here in Texas, the Grand Jury system can be screwy. In the larger counties, grand jurors are generally randomly selected. However, in smaller counties, the “key-man system” is common, whereby the judge picks the key man juror, then the key man himself picks the other grand jurors! I’ll just let the abundance of obvious conflicts of interest there speak for itself. (Fortunately, some reform of that aspect of criminal procedure was addressed in this past legislative session.)

      The Grand Jury is a vital component our legal system and, yes, if you do the right things you’ll probably be ok. Still, it is far from perfect and one must tread extremely cautiously in any endeavor that could bring you within the legal system’s ambit.

  3. That picture looks like a scene out of some central african hell hole. Just think, this is the intended result of community organizing. Coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

    (But don’t take my hatred for these thugs as a sign of support for the police. Two wrongs don’t make a right.)

  4. The pendulum had to swing at some point. I heard on the radio that officer involved shootings may be twice as high as previously estimated, but nobody knows!

  5. +1 for everyone so far. “Back in the day we could just shoot whoever because we had the only recorded evidence. Ah the good old days…”

  6. “Any cop who uses his gun now has to worry about being indicted and losing his job and family.”

    You mean just like everyone else?

    Oh, the humanity!

    • Next they’ll tell us that cops can’t just point their weapon at people whenever they feel like it. Oh noes!

    • But unlike any other citizen, police are go towards armed criminals and walk around with a target on their back. In the present climate, the officer risks the loss of their careers even in a justified shoot. Why be a cop if you know that you are screwed even if you do every thing right?

      • Professional Eng, EMTa, Building Inspectors, Lawyers, Doctors, Air Traffic Controllers, Pilots, Train Conductors, and this list goes on…

        Countless professions have a high risk of life ruining consequences based on. poor judgement calls, especially when people die from those poor judgement calls.

        Cops are not special, little snowflakes when it comes to professional accountability.

        • Cops are not special, little snowflakes when it comes to professional accountability.

          +1

        • @ROHC and Danny:
          Of course they aren’t, but tell that to the Supreme Court which reaffirmed their immunity just recently. That’s what bothers me more than cops’ actions. It’s the fact that there is little or no punishment for their egregious behavior. This sends a signal to other cops that abuse, theft and corruption are and will be tolerated. This in turn creates contempt for cops among the general public, but somehow we are the problem and not the cops.

      • Why be a cop if you know that you are screwed even if you do every thing right?

        Because where else can a high school graduate get a fat pension after just 20 years or service?

      • Honestly a cop should lose his career for any kind of shoot. Cops sign up to “run towards” the criminals. If they don’t want to do that, they are more than welcome to find honest work. Citizens have every right to dictate the employment conditions of cops. If they don’t like that, then they are more than welcome to find honest work. The rights of a citizen, even a criminal, are more important than the safety and life of a cop. They don’t like that, then they are more than welcome to find honest work.

        • I hope this is hyperbole or medication talking. Any kind of shooting and cops should be fired? I and a few other officers shot and killed an active shooter while he was reloading his shotgun. My only regret is that we didn’t get there in time to save everyone, but would you or anyone really, honestly prefer that we had just followed him around until he either ran completely out of ammo or fell asleep?

  7. Take the New York out of that quote, and it might look more like “if you get in a shooting, whether you’re justified or not, the prosecutor might nail you to the wall like George Zimmerman to appease the angry mob.”

    I hope that sounds a bit less offensive. I don’t like the original quote at all.

    • But it was a NYC copper, and I guarantee 100% he meant it exactly as it was written.

      NYC is horrible and a huge chunk of the force is just slightly less corrupt than NOPD, or Rampart back in the day.

    • Hasdrubal,

      All the more reason for armed good people who can take care of business before the police arrive. Seriously, armed good people make police officers’ lives much safer.

      You know as well as anyone that attacks are over in seconds when the defender is armed. Unless we get to the point that police can teleport instantly to attacks, armed good people really are the best “work safety” feature that will ever be available to police.

      • I agree completely, and I make a serious effort to tell at least one person I meet while on duty each week that they ought to consider getting some kind of firearm, as much training as they feel they need (to include none if they don’t feel like it) and a carry permit if they are interested. Haven’t missed a week this year except vacation time.

    • In places like Baltimore you might not even be the one involved in the death of a suspect and you’ll still get dragged into being charged if it’s politically expedient.

  8. There will be no national crime wave this is just scary story telling. But if you live on the west coast of the United States I suggest you learn how to use a broom handle as a weapon, or the easy to get vibrator since a firearm has a waiting period of several days because homosexual law makers said so. Don’t forget you voted for them.

    If you live in chi town or the big Apple I suggest you leave the city. The movie “The Warriors” from the 1970’s may come true for those in certain neighborhoods. The white liberals will get the utopia they want for YOU. The white liberals will be protected in their gated community with their children attending private Lilly white schools.

    Those of us in the bible belt have very little to worry about. It only takes a few minutes to purchase a slide fire long gun. There not banned down here and ammunition is plentiful.

    • Those of us in the bible belt have very little to worry about because we already have guns galore. Fixed it for you.

  9. “A lot of cops feel that the climate for the next couple of years is going to be nonstop protests.”

    If what you sow is contempt and an “us vs. them” attitude (as many police departments do), don’t be surprised when that’s what you reap, too.

    • I used to participate in a larger, state firearms forum with a number of LEO members. One of the members posed a question, “Would you help out a LEO who was in trouble?” The majority of respondents answered, probably not. Maybe they would just be a “good witness” like the police are continually telling us. Don’t get involved, just be a good witness. When the shoe was on the other foot, though, as in the case of this question, the LEOs objected and were astonished. Some asked how would we know if the cop was in the right or wrong to begin with? The majority of LEOs countered that was why they have the “us v. them” mentality.

      The forum was populated by hundreds, if not thousands, of law-abiding carry license holders. If you lose the law-abiding public…

      • The truth of US vs. Them, is police are afraid of the people. When good order is replaced with everyone a suspect, you lose the people. And just how are the people suppose to help a cop? They don’t want us to have arms, they want a helpless population, they watch buildings burn and I’ve witnessed them refusing to help people hurt in accidents, citing not qualified to help. Police are reaping the harvest they’ve sow’ed.

      • Since LEO’s have been staffed with the “respect mah authoratah!” types, (oh, the early 90’s), I’ve been warning cops that this day would come. They laughed in my face at my prediction. Cops used to depend upon the “silent majority” standing behind them, and with reason: most people like law and order. But I was resolute in my prediction, because I knew that one day, the worm would turn. It always does in these long-term developments. I knew that one day, enough law-abiding people would have enough of the police misconduct and either call them to account at the ballot box or turn their backs and allow the howling mobs of leftists to have at the cops.

        It appears that the latter is the path the public is now choosing. The public is taking this option because they feel more confident of being able to provide for their own safety than 20 years ago – thanks to the spread of shall-issue CCW laws, increasing gun ownership and laws making it easier for law abiding citizens to defend themselves.

        Now, cops don’t like the feeling of being out there without public support. Cops, being the pampered public employees that they are, will most likely shrink back, not having any legal requirement to actually, you know, actually do their jobs, and avoid taking on any risk to a nice retirement on the taxpayer’s dime. The result will be an an increase in the rate of crime in the dazzling urban utopias of black corruption. If you’re law abiding and you live in one of these urban utopias staffed with dazzling urbanites, I’d recommend moving, for things are about to get rather western…

        • 100% agreement. I’ve done a 180 in opinion towards cops in the past 5-10 years. I’m definitively in the long tail of the curve on the degree of conservatism and when cops lose people like me they are in deep sheet.

        • During the recent funeral for two killed police officers, the NYC cops had no problem turning their backs on De Blasio as a sign of protest of his actions, claiming he had blood on his hands. Apparently they don’t understand that pendulum swings both ways. Now it’s the public who is slowly turning on them due to years of abuse, corruption and theft (asset forfeiture, anyone?). And they have the nerve to cry foul? Actions have consequences. The current contempt that people have for the cops is a result of the cops’ own actions, not the general public’s.

        • All I ask is to be judged by my actions and not my uniform or the color of my skin.

        • avatarDanny Griffin says:
          June 1, 2015 at 11:34
          asset forfeiture. Cops should be in prison for this abuse.

          Disagree. Legislators empower police to do this. Judges cover them. Done correctly against drug cartels it works. Profiling citizens who are not druggies is wrong.

        • Disagree all you want, you apparently don’t know the truth.

          News organizations in Tennessee did exposes on the police abuse of asset forfeiture. It is rampant, so bad it raised the ire of lawmakers who said they were abusing the law and the citizens. Here is just one story in a “Policing for Profit” series of a man who was robbed of $22,000 by a Tennessee cop, even though he had proof that the money was legitimate and what he was going to use it for (buy a car).

          http://www.scrippsmedia.com/newschannel5/news/newschannel-5-investigates/policing-for-profit/265578441.html

          Cops are known to do this in states such as TN, LA, TX, and others. In Texas, cops would intimidate people of Mexican descent, and in Louisiana they would target out of state drivers and take their money and cars. In Pennsylvania, one agency went looking for properties they could seize, and in one case seized a nice “mom and pop” motel worth a few million dollars that had seen several people arrested for marijuana over the past decade. The cops admitted they had just gone over the arrest records for the past decade looking for properties to seize so they could get money for their department.

          This is not the fault of the politicians who wrote laws so that the mafia couldn’t keep their ill-gotten gains, these laws are being used against honest citizens who never committed any crimes!

          For you to absolve these police agencies for their criminal acts shows you to be the type of individual you are. Legislators do NOT empower the police to do this. The police do not even follow the laws. They just seize and walk away, no arrest. Now the innocent citizens have to hire an attorney and go to court against these dishonest and corrupt police agencies.

          This is why we need the police to be accountable on an individual level. They must be personally held accountable for citizen abuse, else it will never end.

        • That is a true post. The middle class is getting tired of being cast as criminals by the government and its agents. Obozo and his buddies are accelerating the non-support of government by the middle class. Of course, we now have the high speed low drag military operator cops who think they are patrolling in Iraq and are looking for insurgent citizens.

        • Law-abiding “insurgent citizens” are easier to confront than actual bad guys.

        • All I ask is to be judged by my actions and not my uniform or the color of my skin.

          Sorry, Accur81, I agree with a lot of what you post but can’t with this one. I applaud you for being one of the good guys and trying to do the best that you can while wearing that uniform. However, there is probably a time coming soon where you’re going to have to ditch the uniform or take your chances with the rest. Hopefully, you reach retirement before that time arrives. If not, you voluntarily wear the colors so you can voluntarily stop wearing them. I pray that you will be able to know when the time to walk away has arrived and that you choose to do so.

          Remember, wearing that uniform is an action that you are choosing. Being an officer is a privilege and not a right. So, in a sense, people judging you based upon the uniform is actually them judging you on your chosen action; to wear it.

        • Accur81: All I ask is to be judged by my actions and not my uniform or the color of my skin.

          Will your actions include holding your fellow corrupt cops accountable, including doing whatever it takes to ensure that they are fired or put in prison if appropriate? If not, your protestation that your “personally” won’t violate a citizen’s rights rings hollow.

          Are you afraid your fellow officers won’t back you up on a call or you will get harassed and stalked like others who cross the thin blue line? If so, again your protestation that you “personally” won’t violate a citizen’s rights rings hollow.

      • Hate to say this but an armed citizen coming to the aid of police officer has a better than even chance of being shot by that police officer. That’s the reason for the “good witness” policies. It’s not a lack of wanting to help (lots of officer in trouble 911 calls) it’s self preservation.

        • Yep, absolutely.

          And, I would add, this: If I’m coming upon a scene where a cop is in trouble, odds are the firearm I’d deploy to assist will not be a pistol, but rather a high powered rifle. In other words, whoever is on the other end of that is likely going to be DRT if I fire. Then there’s issues of over-penetration, blah, blah, blah. All I see are legal liabilities up the wazzoo.

          Now, if there were immunity and a “show some gratitude[*]” laws in place to shield me from blowback, I might get involved, because here in the intermountain west, there’s lots of areas where backup from fellow LEO’s is going to take 30 to 90 minutes to arrive. But as the situation stands now, I can’t honestly concern myself. On the one hand (doing nothing), I have no legal problems (civil or criminal). On the other side (doing something, even if only intimidating the criminal with a rifle), I have legal issues to contend with.

          [*]Show some gratitude laws: There should be laws on the books where, upon immediate review at the scene by the participants, if all non-LEO citizens agree that the citizen(s) bailed the cop’s/cops’ butts out of a tight spot, the cops say “Thank you” and then STFU. I don’t want to hear “you shouldn’t do that,” or “people shouldn’t take armed force into their own hands” or “we don’t recommend the public use guns” or any other such twaddle. If the public gets the cops’ asses out of a sling, then the cops have only one response: “Thank you, Mr/Ms Citizen.” And the DA is told to STFU as well.

          The salient point that all these people should remember is that they work for us. They’ve forgotten the Golden Rule: He Who Provides The Gold, Makes the Rules.

        • DG, I’d be more than happy to have you bail me out of a gunfight, do a trigger job, or have a beer with me. If you save my a$$, I’ll just simply say “thank you for saving my a$$.” If you can shoot as well as you smith guns (if that’s even the right way to say it), then I certainly wouldn’t want you as an enemy, and would be more than happy to have you as an ally.

          If there’s ever a police-saving DGU with a .338 Win Mag bolt gun with an immaculate trigger out in the west, I’ll contribute to your legal defense sight unseen.

  10. I contend when police lose law abiders in their 50’s…it’s over. Balitmore was an epic failure and showed police are nothing more than political lacky’s. To stand down on the orders of city leadership makes a mockery of the phrase “to serve and protect”. When businesses burn, mobs rule the day and police do nothing….F them.

    And should LEO keep armaments in the holster all the better. More riots only help the cause of restoring constitutional carry.

    • “I contend when police lose law abiders in their 50’s…”

      It’s already happening..Dragging grandpa out of the car and cuffing him up because he didnt comply fast enough to your orders is pulling the rug out from under police support.. Anybody else getting phone calls from the FOP asking for donations?.. I tell them to pound sand.

      • Anybody else getting phone calls from the FOP asking for donations?

        I love getting the opportunity to tell them exactly why they can GFO.

    • So what – the cops were supposed to go in and crack heads in defiance of the properly constituted civil authority? That can’t be what you meant, right? I think those would be called “rogue cops”.

      The upper echelons of the Baltimore PD, just like the Baltimore city government, is is racially diverse and 100% committed to the Democrat party. It’s hardly surprising that government rot is worst were there is a total one-party state.

  11. Chris T- what does the sexual orientation of lawmakers have to do with anything? ( And how do YOU know what that orientation is?)

  12. Law Enforcement has only brought this on themselves.

    When you treat the citizens that pay your wages like crap and act like you are better then them
    you end up getting a wake up call until you realize you are a Public SERVANT again.

    I do not advocate violence against law enforcement but there comes a time when karma catches
    up to you when you mistreat others. Just the nature of things.

  13. If the most common motto of the many and various Police Departments out there is some form of “To Protect and Serve” then why does seeing a cop in the rear-view make you feel nervous instead of served?

  14. I don’t think the LEO mean he doesn’t want oversight and accountability (at least I hope so). I don’t think that is what he meant: I believe he is referring to the witch hunt and lynch mob mentality spurred by Obama’s remarks and media saturation of arrest-resisting cases distortion and half-truths BEFORE all the facts are in and a grand jury weighs the evidence. Zimmerman, the LEOs in Ferguson and NYC were tried, convicted, and rioted over before most of the facts were in. And the Mayor of Baltimore’s action and comments should outrage anyone who believes in the rule of law instead of anarchy. That is what he is talking about I believe. Police are afraid of losing their jobs just because Al Sharpton doesn’t like the way they do their job. the Ferguson officer did.

  15. I grew up watching Adam 12. Fictional as it was, that’s what I thought cops were. When I was 17, the Saturday night cop at the local cruise around Metro mall was a short black guy named Officer Levi. 300 kids hanging around Golf-N-Stuff, driving in and out of the parking lot, grabbing ass and clowning around, every Saturday night during the summer. I remember him well, great demeanor, kids loved him, respected him and he made US feel safe and welcome, so long as we behaved.

    those days are over. I have a few cop friends that have gotten out, retired. Neither could stand the hypocrisy, arrogance, bullying, roided up tattoo freaks looking for a fight every night. both said the younger cops all had the same attitude.. you were either a cop or a suspect. even if you were a victim.

  16. probably over posting, sorry,.. I was watching the Alaska State Troopers on Nat Geo the other day. Talk about a stark contrast. this episode was a Trooper going out to check out a drunk guy with a gun holed up in his house. he rolls up, alone. backup is an hour away. he starts talking with the guy, who’s depressed, suicidal, and stands out on the porch trying to get the guy to come out. At one point he actually got in the house trying to get the guy to come out and talk, but the guy spooks and yells at the Trooper to get out. The drunk guy points his AR at the Trooper from inside the window, or waves it around and the Trooper wisely backs off. Backup shows up, they talk about it and decide to let the guy sleep it off. they hunker down for the night, next morning, sober guy says he’s coming out, walks out sheepishly with his hands in his pockets, and walked up to the Trooper and SHOOK HIS HAND AND APOLOGIZED. Trooper tells him he understands but still has to take him to jail. the guy walks to the Trooper’s vehicle and gets in, without hand cuffs.

    All I could do was marvel at the patience and calmness of everyone involved, how if it had gone down in any other lower 48 state the swat team would have killed the drunk guy, his dogs and probably burned half his home down with a flashbang.

    • I doubt people go to Alsaka thinking the gubmint is going to pamper them.
      Therefore I doubt that Leftist twaddle carries much weight in Alaska.

      Checked ’08 results and as expected Obama lost big (60/40)
      …groan….’12 was closer 55/45 because 1/3 of the ’08 Repub voters sat on their hands.

    • It’s not a certainty that the guy would’ve been killed in any other state. There’s probably a 1 in 3 chance that the SWAT team would roll up to the wrong house and kill some other drunk and his dog.

  17. “Any cop who uses his gun now has to worry about being indicted and losing his job and family. Everything has the potential to be recorded.”

    Any LEO who doesn’t think that video and audio recording are his friend
    should probably find another line of work.

  18. Police work isnt any different than any other job, with respect to being monitored, Nobody feels that the camera is there to protect you, no matter what flavor the BS is being dished up…..Its like the guy that gets pulled over, taken out of his car and told he is being handcuffed for his own safety, while he is being checked out…the cop knows it’s bullshit, the driver knows it’s bullshit, the guy watching it knows it’s bullshit…. But everybody is playing along like it’s the truth… It just shows the reality of the relationship between the public and cops….

    If cops are being convinced that the camera is there for their protection, and accepting it ” for their own good” then it makes babysitting them much easier…no to mention, it shows the reality of the relationship between the cops and the public..

  19. So, call me a cynic, but at what point do we begin to see mass strikes from the nations big city police? If these folks dont want cops in their communities, I am curious to see what happens when they decide to oblige.

        • Go read about how Ferguson cops and city hall were using regulatory law to arrest people on manufactured offenses and releasing them only after paying exorbitant fines. The cops are a racket.

    • Agree. I lived through the “blue flu days in NY in the 70s. Not fun for the average citizen. Lots of cap went down in the street. It was a crim bankers holiday.

    • Let em strike….people in big citys would be empowered to be responsible for their own safety… something unheard of now, because they are brainwashed into thinking cops are the only ones who can save them.. if they can survive the encounter with the cop.

        • They chose to give up their rights by living in and supporting an unAmerican city. No sympathy. Maybe they’ll learn a lesson in all this.

        • nowdays… they still dont have the means to protect themselves…give the city dwellers the right to protect themselves and let em strike…

  20. So, get rid of the Police! If they don’t want to do the job, for obvious reasons for which I do not blame them, let The People have it that way. If they want their neighborhoods to be warzones, where the population has been disarmed, let them have it. Teach the value of responsible gun ownership. Those who refuse to learn the easy way should be allowed to learn the hard way. Stop suspending reality in the Gun Free Zones.

    “Be careful what you wish for.”

    Let the idiots have what they wished for. They wanted no guns and no police, let them have it. Let them learn the hard way.

    As much as I hate cops, I do understand that they’re being asked to do an impossible job. No man can suspend reality on demand of The People. So don’t. I understand the stress of trying to do the impossible can lead to a bad attitude. I get it, I really do. So quit! Stop doing that to yourself, let the losers have their wish.

    • The good cops need to start purging their dept’s of the bad ones.

      LOL! Like that’s ever going to happen!

      A few days ago a local PD video was released where a full 20% of the department was engaged in misbehavior or approval of the misbehavior. A day after that video came out a settlement for $1.4 million was reached,

      Do you honestly think that a system where all the cops on an entire shift approve of illegal behavior are going to turn their fellow officers in?

      Have you even read the NOPD DOJ report?

      Have you read all the reports of PDs around this country that are abusing their authority? These PDs are running wild. There seems to be no accountability.

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