Israel’s IWI Creates a Smart Gun. Lots of Smart Guns. Want one?

Smart guns – firearms that recognize the user to prevent unauthorized access – are something or a pariah amongst the People of the Gun. And for good reason. New Jersey has a law on its books that mandates all handguns for sale in The Garden State must be smart guns within 30 months of any such gun being available for sale in the United States. Well, now, check this out . . .

Israel’s IWI have developed a smart gun. While the video describing their military-aimed eLog system above makes no mention of “personalization protection” it’s not a great leap to think that their system could be modified for that very purpose.

Do the benefits – inventory control, maintenance alerts, shooting data collection and more outweigh the political ramifications? As Nick constantly reminds me, you can’t stop the signal. [h/t DC-W]

comments

  1. avatar mark_anthony_78 says:

    This is military technology, right?

    I thought “Military weapons have no place on the streets of America…”

    1. avatar Felix says:

      Dang. Nice catch!

    2. avatar younggun21 says:

      Yeah stick that in your pipe and smoke it

  2. avatar Illinois_Minion says:

    Law enforcement and government agencies will show us how well this works first. Right?

    1. avatar JasonM says:

      It is targeted for military purposes.

      It appears to be an RFID system for tracking usage, movement, and inventory.
      So if a tech savvy Palestinian sets up some RFID readers around a neighborhood, he can use them to track the incoming IDF troops (where they are, how many there are, what weapons they have, how much ammo they have left, etc.) to set up the perfect ambush.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Right. How far behind do you suppose the idea of a RFID tracker, to be used in an RFID-seeking missile, is going to be?

        1. avatar Bobiojimbo says:

          Considering many active homing missiles are already guided by radio frequencies? Not far behind. The trick will be scale. But, missiles are less concerning, it’s RFID triggered IEDs that I’d worry about.

        2. avatar Dry Sider says:

          Not a missile. An IED carrying drone. The operator team has the RFID detector. Fly to the specific location with a visual confirmation. Push bang button. Easy, consumer grade, nothing unusual on your possession while escaping.

          And drones are a lot cheaper than missiles.

      2. avatar int19h says:

        RFID is very low-power, so the range would be a few meters at most if the tag is passive, and up to 100m if it’s active.

        1. avatar rosignol says:

          If they’re hooking RFID sensors to IEDs, 10 meters would be plenty close enough. :-/

  3. avatar Kyle says:

    Sad thing is, I’d very much like to have one. New Jersey is a loss anyway.

    But I’m not sure I want to the guy that upsets THIS applecart.

    Of course, I’m in california (another Loss state), and it’ll never get approved in this state anyway.

    1. avatar Noishkel says:

      People said the same thing about Illinois not to long ago. I say never give up hope. Not betting on it for any amount of money…. but I’ll still hold out hope.

  4. avatar pwrserge says:

    Meh… This is not a fire control system. Modifying it to do that would be basically creating a new design. What it is is a glorified accelerometer with a GPS tag and some fancy software. It’s damn useful for military purposes where keeping track of maintenance records for hundreds of thousands of individuals weapons is a challenge. However, I don’t see this affecting the civilian sector one way or another.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “However, I don’t see this affecting the civilian sector one way or another.”

      Ability to remote disable doesn’t affect one way or another?

      1. avatar Jiz says:

        or deploying an EMP on the battlefield and disabling all of them

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          Conventional explosive EMP weapons are a reality. Think along the lines of microwave generators or a missile trailing a wire connected to a large coil then an explosive slamming a very high-Gauss magnet through that coil.

          http://www.tfd.chalmers.se/~valeri/EMP.html

      2. avatar pwrserge says:

        That’s not what this system does. At all. Did you even watch the video? It’s basically a glorified round counter and inventory management system. It has ZERO interaction with the fire control group.

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          Ah!

          I stand corrected…

      3. avatar JJVP says:

        I must have watched a different video than you did. It does not have the capability to disable anything. The only thing it does is keep records of maintenance, how many shots fired and where it is. It does not control the weapon in any way, shape, or form. It is the technology that the ATF should have had for Fast and Furious, assuming that they really wanted to track the weapons.

    2. avatar Defens says:

      I think pwrserge is right on this one – in its current state, the system is just an inventory control doodad – it only gathers data. If the OBDII system on your car screws up, the car still runs, you just can’t get a readout of the computer data. If the e-log malfunctions, the gun still shoots.

      1. avatar Static NAT says:

        I’ll believe it when it passes the same torture tests as the other guns on the market.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          That’s the point, it doesn’t have to. The system does not interact with the internals in any way. It merely uses an accelerometer to detect and count shots while using an RFID based system to tack the gun and transfer usage data to a maintenance center point. If the system fails, there’s no loss of function. Your armorer’s going to be pissed, but that’s about it.

        2. avatar Anon in CT says:

          You can still drive your car without the stereo and GPS.

          Something like this could be very useful for 3-gunners and the like.

  5. avatar Ken says:

    I can see a hacker disabling the enemy with a click of a mouse.

    1. avatar Robert Farago says:

      Somehow I think IWI will provide some protection in that regard.

      1. avatar Rambeast says:

        Anything electronic has an off “switch”. If it can be remotely disabled, there is a way for a “hacker” to do the same. The days of government proprietary design were over a long time ago. Software and firmware are easily overcome if they are not standalone, hardened systems.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          So they can disable my armorer’s ability to tell how many rounds I’ve fired and how many times I’ve dropped the rifle since it was last serviced? Oh, the horror.

    2. avatar CentralIL says:

      Watch the video. It is nothing more than a glorified shot counter. It does not affect the fire control group one way or another.

  6. avatar Dracon1201 says:

    This doesn’t seem to tie into the fire control system or interrupt the normal functioning of the firearm in any way. Nor does it appear that it could. I’m okay with this.

  7. avatar Kyle in CT says:

    From a military perspective, I can’t see anyone adopting this. The problem of inventory control isn’t bad or costly enough (based on my understanding anyway) to justify the cost of implementing this for each and every weapon.

    Where I CAN see this being useful is in conflicts such as we are seeing now in the Middle East. Weapons are routinely captured by someone other than the intended recipient, and then used against the “allies” we were trying to help. If you can GPS locate those arms (presuming the emitter can’t be easily removed or the signal blocked … a pretty big assumption), and you can then tie this to what amounts to a self-destruct, I can see this being very valuable in situation where we are engaged in what amounts to a proxy war. A quick-set resin in the fire-control group would be enough to render the gun useless without serious effort, and could potentially avoid issues like we saw/continue to see in Iraq where ISIS is using our own equipment against Iraqi forces.

    1. avatar Wes says:

      Or just use the gps coordinates as the target of an air strike…

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        If you think you can pack a GPS transceiver into a box that small and have it function for any length of time, please let the NSA know, they probably have a nice fat check for you.

    2. avatar joe08 says:

      I think a military officer, who is financially liable, would want anything that can make inventory more reliable and easier is a bonus!

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        That officer is told to STFU and after 18 months is promoted to O-2.

  8. avatar Mark says:

    I too am against “smart guns”, but I doubt that this technology is anything we as civilians need to fear. It’s benefits are only useful to military and police armories that service hundreds or more weapons. Data on shots fired between service intervals, trouble guns that require more service than others has the potential to save money. Plus, accurately counting shots fired could lead to more fine tuned ammo purchases, potentially another cost cutting benefit.

    But whether this system is cost effective, I have no clue.

  9. avatar clickboom says:

    Everyone SHOULD fear this tech as it is just another slice in the death by 1000 cuts strategy that the anti’s use.

    Blech.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      I fail to see how an inventory management system combined with a round counter has anything to do with gun control. It can’t disable your gun. It can’t track your gun. (On further review, a GPS transceiver is way too power hungry to live in the package they present, it’s probably a passive RFID chip.) All it does is let you know how many rounds you fired and how many times you dropped your gun. It’s basically an odometer for your gun.

      1. avatar styrgwillidar says:

        About the only thing it would support would be making the guns easier to find during a search. That is, if all guns were required to have RFID, the police could come in with a hand held interrogator to assist in locating them.

  10. avatar HES says:

    Yeah I’m not seeing this as anything more than an inventory control system. This is analogous to RFID tags that you find on retail products in retail stores. There is no way that I can see this being ported into a fire control / authentication system. That would require a completely different system.
    But let’s look at the worst case scenario. The antis mandate this be put in all firearms so that they can set up readers in public places or the entrances to offices or stores to track firearms. It’s not like we won’t be able to render them inoperable.

  11. avatar Garrison Hall says:

    “Smart” technology in various forms from smart gun, smart electric meters, smart cars, etc., etc. are a way of inserting the power of the state more intimately into the lives of private citizens. Using artificial intelligence to make decisions for you is a direct threat to individual liberty and freedom. AI is only useful when it is controlled by the individual and not by the state.

  12. avatar pwrserge says:

    Holly crap the tinfoil hat brigade is out in force today. The “smart” part of this system is the predictive maintenance program. The onboard system is just a usage tracker and RFID tag.

    It cannot disable your gun.
    It doesn’t let anybody track your gun remotely.

    It does allow an armorer to spend less money on spare parts by more accurately predicting part wear.
    It does allow an armorer to buy ammunition in a more controlled manner based on actual usage.
    It does allow an armorer to detect and address abuse related failures before they occur.

    Calm down, this is not some sort of crazy plot by the lizard people. It’s an incredibly useful tool for large armories that need to service hundreds or thousands of weapons.

    1. avatar styrgwillidar says:

      It would make it a bit easier for guns equipped with an RFID to be found/located during a search of a room/building, correct? But that’s about it, what is the range for an RFID to be interrogated?

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Depends on the chip. For industrial units? You’re typically talking a few inches. The problem is the size and the fact that it has to be enclosed. Both those work against range.

    2. avatar sagebrushracer says:

      yeah, people are blowing up the comments without even watching the vid. RFID cannot track you from space, its effective range is similar to the anti theft system at walmart. Something as simple as this I am honestly wondering why it wasn’t around earlier. We have had this tech around the 90s, it works and its all very simple. Hell, its not a smart gun. anyone can still shoot it at any time. I think it would be handy, it records gun movement while shooting, if its being waved about and fired willy nilly, it will record it.

      1. avatar J. Zoss says:

        Indeed. I doubt we will see much support for requiring them in the comments here but as far as possibly making a personal choice to buy something like this then my answer is yes. I have some firearms that are shot enough that I would find at least a round counter to be useful. I would not be surprised if I could make use of other useful data logs as well. Like has been noted this example is not integral to the design or function of any weapon it is being put on. Bring an affordable system to the civilian market that easily mounts and is easily removed without any permanent modification and I am interested.

    3. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Good summary, pwrserge. The sky is not falling, guys.

      If this counts as a “smart” gun, then does the spreadsheet I use to keep track of my guns and ammo also count? Because this is pretty much just a more automated version of that.

  13. avatar Aaron says:

    People still live in New Jersey? I thought everyone left that shiite-hole and moved to Florida.

  14. avatar Bob in MI says:

    They already put a system like this in beretta shotguns. I don’t understand the big deal. I think the title is a bit misleading. But I clicked so it works.

  15. avatar the ruester says:

    They could use this as an excuse to pass some of their wish list. GPS can be used to enforce safe storage laws and carry restrictions. Round counters could be used to enforce ammo restrictions. These laws generally fail because they overburden LE and citizens, but if they could check your compliance with a radar gun or something how long do you think it will be before moms start demanding them on all guns, and Bloomberg funds a successful stateside push to mandate them?

  16. avatar thx855 says:

    Now they’d know about all of those thousands of rounds of blank ammo I buried that I was supposed to fire during maneuvers, but didn’t want to clean my gat. Blanks is dirty y’all.

  17. avatar Mike says:

    So how smart does a smart gun have to be?

    As smart as politicians? If so that means we would have to go back to the stone age if your talking about liberal democrats.

    😉

  18. avatar raptureRaptor says:

    Glorified Automated Inventory Management is more like it. I’m all about tech but I don’t understand how this would be considered “smart gun”. Doesn’t sound like it’d tell from intended friend or foe.

  19. avatar Paladin says:

    Seems like more of a data collection system, it doesn’t seem to interfere in any way with the actual operation of the firearm as a “smart gun” would. This is something more in line with armory level users, since their key talking points are around round counts, maintenance schedules and inventory tracking, rather than user ID and usage restriction.

  20. avatar Ralph says:

    Great! Now the ATF can do Fast & Furious 2 without “losing” the guns.

  21. avatar Mercutio says:

    Any electronic device will eventually fail… usually at the most inappropriate time. Here in Hawai’i, the mean life of electronics is 2 years due to humidity and salt air. Your experience may vary.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      Modern electronics since the 80’s have ‘tropicalised’ to protect them in that humid type of environ. Marine protection (salt) is more comprehensive…

      (Aloha. I used to live in Pearl City…)

  22. avatar Desert Ranger says:

    Let’s look at this from an evolutionary POV. The next logical step would be to have the data on the round counts and operability of the firearm transmitted to a device such as a hud on some military google glasses. If this uses wireless of any kind, it can be hacked.

    Now suppose the same HUD is also tied to the comms back to command or integrated into your unit’s drones. Now you have a multiple gateways for any hacker wanting to gather intel or wreak havoc with the inventory. The point is this system is like an IBM PS II… “wow, this computer has a 20MB hardrive!” Flash forward 25 years and that same stand-alone system has become the backbone of the entire economy, infrastructure (water, sewer, power, etc) and communication.

    Are there benefits to digital integration- hell yes… but as smart phones have demonstrated, we take the tech too far and allow it too deep into the core of our daily lives and what our lives depend on for survival.

  23. And 1 EMP can fry the whole system. “Smart guns” are not all that smart under those conditions.

  24. avatar Jus Bill says:

    I’m thinking that instead of a GPS, that tiny board/chip contains an acceleromoter and a timekeeping circuit. Off the shelf circuits; cheap and easy. And completely self-contained. Just ruggedize the case – make it look all badazz operator-like.

    AND the profit in Government sales is just AWESOME.

    Theft? That’s when you get a movement that wasn’t expected a a given time. Not theft prevention, just proof of theft.

  25. avatar defensor fortismo says:

    It makes sense that it’s coming from Israel simply because they have a history of taking rather extreme measures in order to control a populace of conscripts. Setting aside the obvious example of their name becoming synonymous with carrying with an empty chamber, this is a military that built a bottle opener into the galil to keep boots from jacking up magazines on beer bottles. With that context, it’s easy to see how the notion of technology that could be carried safely -regardless of its effectiveness -could appeal to them

  26. avatar John Gancho says:

    A boon to law enforcement : now instead of having to shoot guns out of bad guys hands, they can simply shoot the watch off his wrist.

  27. avatar JJVP says:

    Looks like this is nothing new. Found this old post (2008) at another forum

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/50573-found-microchip-my-hk-usp-compact.html

    1. avatar JJVP says:

      I’ll wait for the Android version.

  28. avatar jkenz@op.dspt.edu says:

    Smart Gun® is a registered trademark of Mossberg by the way. iGun™ was released by Mossberg years ago as the “world’s first personalized firearm”…..

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