Screen Shot 2015-04-23 at 11.31.38 AM

The Trop Gun Shop is a Pennsylvania-based Internet gun seller. They recently sent an email blast to their customers advising them that GLOCK had “terminated” Trop’s participation in their Blue Label Program. That’s the discount deal (around $75 to $100 off msrp) Gaston’s mob offers sworn law enforcement officers; EMT’s, fire fighters, volunteer fire fighters and paramedics; military personnel; corrections officers (including Parole and Probation Officers), state licensed security companies; court judges, District Attorneys and Deputy District Attorneys; and LE Academy Cadets. Trop reports that GLOCK demanded a look at their customers’ 4473’s. Here’s their announcement . . .

Trop Response to Glock Blue Label Program Termination

Trop Gun Shop regrets to inform our customers that we will no longer be participating in the Glock Blue Label program. Effective immediately, Glock terminated us from the program for refusing to furnish access to our customers’ private information for the purposes of auditing by Glock employees. While it is regrettable that we will no longer be able to offer the benefits of the Blue Label program here at Trop, we absolutely refuse to compromise the sensitive information of our customers by furnishing it to anyone without proper authority through standard legal practices.

To participate in the Glock Blue Label program a dealer must allow Glock access to audit “qualifying credentials” of its Blue Label customers. Typically these credentials are a form of identification verifying the individual is a member of one of the groups listed in the Blue Label program.

Recently a representative of Glock entered our establishment and demanded access to view our records related to all Blue Label sales, specifically our ATF Form 4473s, which contain very detailed, personal and identifying information of our customers. We refused the Glock representative access to this information.

During repeated correspondence Glock continued to demand access to the 4473s or we would be terminated from the Blue Label program. We attempted to reconcile the situation while maintaining our customers’ privacy and made every effort to comply with reasonable requests to audit the Blue Label sales to maintain the integrity of the program. However, Glock insisted that access to the 4473s and only access to the 4473s would be a sufficient level of compliance.

Our position was, and continues to be, that we will not surrender to Glock our Form 4473s and our customers’ identifying information under any circumstance. It is an untenable breach of our customers’ privacy and Trop Gun Shop will not submit to this unreasonable demand. As a result of our position, Glock immediately terminated our status as an authorized participant of the Blue Label program. Furthermore, Glock advised us that if we ever applied in the future, that request would be denied. While we are displeased that we can no longer support our qualifying customers through the Blue Label program, Trop Gun Shop remains committed to the security and privacy of all of our customers, and continues to offer its Law Enforcement / Military discount to those who qualify.

Regards,

Trop Gun Shop

My guess? GLOCK’s caught wind of non-eligible buyers taking advantage of their Blue Label program. How big can that problem be? Participants in the program are restricted to two firearm purchases per year. Watch this space.

Recommended For You

94 Responses to GLOCK Demanding Customer Info From Gun Dealers?

  1. >court judges, District Attorneys and Deputy District Attorneys

    Government lawyers get a discount, lawyers representing the people do not. Nice.

    • It does have a certain logic to it since D.A.s are considered law enforcement officers, at least here in PA. I certainly wouldn’t begrudge Glock offering the same deal to public defenders though.

      • Indeed, the logic is that the people who dispense violence on behalf of politicians get the perk.

      • Perhaps because a criminal might be a bit more strongly inclined to harm one of those who put him in jail than one of the people tasked with seeing his rights weren’t violated?

        • Unless, of course, said criminal thinks they’re in jail because of something their lawyer did. A not too uncommon train of thought, amongst some.

    • People who are not involved in every day Law Enforcement or Fighting fires/saving lives in any form or shape… should have no access to the Blue Label program. Judges or prosecutors make twice as much as cops… should be able to pay full MSRP.

      • State attorneys start out at ~$40k a year and have a doctorate in law which takes 7 years, plus taking the bar exam is hell on earth. Police spend a few months at the academy. Don’t degrade the job state attorneys do.

    • If that is the case, I can appreciate Glock’s situation. However, they don’t need to be collecting lists of people. In fact in some states, specifically Florida that would be felony on the Glock folks. Can’t create lists of people nor gun registries of law abiding people.

      It sounds like this company was willing to verify, but just not be letting them go through their bound books.

      • Where does it say anyone was creating any list? A company making a special offer has the right to see that its terms and conditions are adhered to. This can be done by simply comparing the qualifying documentation (officer ID, court ID, etc, to the name on the identification provided with the 4473. No lists required.

        When I worked behind the counter that documentation was photocopied at the same time the individual’s identification and other documents were done and attached to the 4473.

        • Saw one of the inspections the other day at a pawn dealer ordered a GSSF blue label, all they were doing was the 4473. They had a copy of the order form I had sent & waited 2 weeks for. The transfer was done they already had a choppy of my GSSF CARD/Order. They demanded a copy of my cow, do & 4473. Dealer told them to stick it, wanted to get a copy get a warrant. He says he’ll take them in pawn but never purchase any again. Said worse than ATFE investigation.

        • If they are compiling data, they are making lists. They don’t need to see a form 4473 for that. There isn’t jack shit on the 4473 that tells Gaston Glock that you are a cop or a Fireman. Your cop ID would do that. If these ass-hats get caught with a list of Florida lawful gun owners, its a Felony. It doesn’t matter what their lame ass excuse is. They aren’t a law enforcement agency investigating crimes via warrants. Making lists and registries of legal owners is a felony even for agencies under Florida statute.

    • Knowing Trop, that would not be the case at all. They are a well respected on the up and up gun shop. The problem in PA is that the discount is offered to firefighters. Most firehouses in PA are staffed by volunteers and most of those firehouse have a social quarters that’s used to fund the company. You can join the social quarters ( really just a bar that’s a cheap place to drink) and you’re a “member” of the fire company even if you’ve never picked up a hose or partaken in the required PA firefighter training. This is a big gap in Glock’s program.

  2. I love Trop’s. I live up near Harrisburg and actually bought my last gun from them in their store up here. Glad to know my information is being protected and I will be headed back up there for my next purchase.

  3. I’ve bought a few through blue line, I didn’t realize there was a two per year limit though.

    I’ve had to give them my ID (both when I was in .mil and my police ID) and I know they scanned it, not sure what happened after though.

    I’m thinking the same thing, there’s probably a reason the LGS is being audited.

        • Hmm, I seem to remember being told “at all”. Although, I got out in 94′. So it’s not something I’d go on record about, being that it was in Dec. 89′ when that speech was given.

        • It continues to be a no-no. Copying a military CAC (Common Access Card) is verboten. I am a current civilian employee of the DOD and we are advised of this on a regular basis.

      • Odd.. http://www.cac.mil/common-access-card/managing-your-cac/ doesn’t seem to have any prohibition and Title 18, U.S. Code Part I, Chapter 33, Section 701 only prohibits doing so for criminal or nefarious purposes.

        Then again, it wouldn’t be the first time that a less than simple concept was dumbed down to the lowest common denominator so the poor troopies could understand it (even though the average troop has a higher education level than the equivalent civilian.)

    • It sounds like Glock didn’t do a very good job of instituting uniform compliance measures from the get go, such as requiring documentation of each sale and requiring the dealers to thoroughly inform their customers about the conditions of participation in the program, and is trying now to find a back door to the information they neglected to collect, rather than assuming responsibility for that neglect and instituting new accountability and transparency measures for future sales.

  4. I don’t know what the big stink is, I paid 509.99 for a Gen4 19 a month ago, with free shipping. That’s in the Blue Label price range. I’m guessing GLOCK reimburses the dealer, for the discount?

    • no brother, the Blue Label guns are entirely different they all come with 3 magazines and the normal grey latches on the box are blue hence the Blue Label gun. These guns are sold to the dealer from Glock at a discounted rate so they can pass on the savings to the customer as long as the customer is in the blue label program as an EMT Paramedic fireman police officer judge and a half a dozen other things.

        • that maybe so, but not all departments use gen 4s our department in St Petersburg Florida bought 700 gen 4 Glock 22 in 40 caliber, and when we mounted our lights to them they wouldn’t cycle. so we sent all 700 bat and got gen 3 Glock 21 in 45 ACP. I know a lot of departments especially small department that don’t use gen 4. their use in Gen 3

        • “and when we mounted our lights to them they wouldn’t cycle.” – they gave that exact example at the Glock Armorer’s course. Have you ever seen a video of a Glock being fired, in slow motion ?
          The frame flexes – A LOT. Not a little bit – A LOT. And the gun needs for the frame to flex to properly cycle – but if you mount a light, tight, on the frame – it can’t flex, and has issues feeding.
          The solution: mount the light, but don’t go Magilla Gorilla on it . . .

        • Certain lights & light/laser combos will not stay mounted on certain frames I have had ltr1 fly off a different production run they’re on no problem. I know Harries is dated but I prefer to rely on a tried & true not a maybe. We have instructors that are going back to the FBI hip shot again.
          It’s simply time this country used ONE training standard and taught common sense alongside it. He’ll with lawyers but I feel safer controlling a pair of hands rather than an ECD.

        • THAT – I just bought a “Blue Label” Glock about three weeks ago – and as you say, the only difference (Gen4) is that the LABEL on the box is light blue, instead of red. Guess that’s maybe why they’re called “Blue Label” and not “Blue Latches” ? 🙂

      • So there is a form of reimbursement. I’m thinking said gun store may be selling BLP pistols at a high enough rate, to come under scrutiny. It isn’t hard to see someone selling BLP pistols to people that don’t meet the requirements, in order to make an extra 100.00, or offer a discount that doesn’t hurt their bottom line. Maybe GLOCK’s request is being exaggerated.

        • No, there is no reimbursement. Blue Label Glocks are procured by authorized dealers in certain configurations, with different SKUs and packaging compared to standard Glocks, at a lower cost, and are required to sell them at a certain price. Dealer must copy proof of eligibility (ID, department letter, etc) from customer and have customer fill out a separate form apart from the 4473.

          Seems here that Glock smelled something fishy (as in, “good buddy program” instead of “blue label program”) and wants to match up their records with the 4473s to see if there’s any discrepancies.

      • Latches are gray… the sticker on the box is Blue. Sometimes I wonder about people leaving comments here… seems like posts are made based on Internet research.

    • A blue label Gen 4 G19 is around $399 as are all sub, compact and full size frame models. The 42 and 43 are around $350 while the practical/tactical models are around $498.

    • I’m a Glock fanboy but would not drop 509 on one. The local blue label is 399 for gen4 19s and even offers the factory threaded barreled guns for 430 blue label. They are suck a good deal it has spoiled me about buying new firearms.

  5. Glock has no right whatsoever to demand of 4473 s or any personal information from any ATF paperwork. these are our undercover police officers fireman EMT paramedics, regular patrol officers who don’t want their personal address social security number you pin number given out so who knows who’s going to be looking over this paperwork! that’s b*******!!

    • Discounted program guns are required by Glock to have a GSSF label or some other proof of eligibility attached to the 4473’s. Could it be they were checking for eligibility, not the 4473 itself?

    • Of course they would. Doesn’t matter if they’re based on the net or not they still have to comply with all FFL laws and regulations. Claims to the contract are just propaganda by the anti-rights crowd.

      • Correct, Noishkel. Plus, they aren’t “Internet-based”. They are a Pennsylvania gun store with an Internet sales presence.

        (Happy occasional customer here, no other connection to them.)

      • OK, so they are a brick-and-mortar store with an internet presence, my bad. I still maintain that they would have ZERO 4473s for online says, since it’s the transferring LGS in buyer’s hometown that does the paperwork. It’s kind of irrelevant to the rest of the controversy though, isn’ t it :-).

      • The 4473 is only completed when a transfer is completed between a FFL dealer and a purchaser. Internet sellers do not transfer guns to the purchaser unless there is a face to face transaction. Also, LEO purchases that go through a LEO agency and are shipped directly to an agency by a seller, do not require a 4473.

    • Yes, they sell guns on the Internet, but they do have a physical, retail store in PA.

      The question I have, should Glock be subsidizing gun purchases for specially designated classes of Americans?

      • As far as I know, Glock is a private corporation, they can sell things for whatever price they like.

        A few years back I read the book on Gaston and his company, one of the things in there was that the cost to manufacture a Glock is about 100 USD. Each.

        Good mark-up, they have…

        • Only people who don’t understand manufacturing complain about the “cost” of components it takes to produce a good.

  6. Guess we know what company not to rely on to support our rights. I was neutral towards Glock, they have now earned my disrespect. I will mot be supporting them with any purchases.

  7. And I guess we now know why Glocks are the guns most used by PDs. Not at all because they’re the best gun for the job… it’s because Glock gives him a giant discount.

    I am Jack’s COMPLETE lack of surprise.

  8. One more question. What good would looking at the 4473s do? There isn’t anything there to say you’re LEO, military, etc. There’s more to the story here; someone isn’t telling the whole truth.

  9. Last I knew anyone who has a commercial pilot certificate also qualify for the blue label discount. That was the case for me about 4 years ago when I bought my first Glock. I haven’t tried to buy another since so I don’t know if it still applies.

    • Glock does have a form to fill out with a blue label purchase and it gets mailed to them with a copy with the 4473. It’s a big no-no to show anyone but ATFE on inspection & LEO with warrant the info on 4473’S. Especially with SSN & other identifying info on them.

        • Glock has been consolidating dealers in certain regions. If anyone thinks they’re not making a profit at $398.20 they don’t know what the department price is $322 last time I checked. I carry personal owned weapons luckily. The gave Glock 37’s’ for free to State Police & almost all have gone back to. 40 or. 45ACP.
          When my armorer certificate expires in 2017 will be the last $300 Glock gets of my money. Have all mine up for trade.

  10. Glock who? I just bought two Sig Sauer 320s, and I didn’t have to ask Glock for permission or give Glock my private information.

  11. I never liked glock and I never will. This is outrageous that they are demanding information that they are initiated to. I praise Top for refusing their demands. Furthor proof to me personally why I will never own a glock. On a further note I personally think they are a pos firearm. Jam if you limp wrist them and so forth. It’s true do a youtube search for it.

  12. The blue label dealer sets their own price. The same guns qualify for the GSSF discount. If it were a matter of the 2 gun per year limit, the Glock and Trops reps could have gone through the records right there without giving copies out. Something doesn’t seem right about this. Not sure who I’d blame.

  13. Zimmerman, Ferguson, Baltimore, is all the info in? Seems like I read a lot of that question in the past in this comment section.
    Sounds like some verification or at least a comment from Glock would be in order. As if they wouldn’t know that sniffing people 4473’s would cause a bit of a stir.

  14. IWI, S&W also do this. As a gun shop i wouldn’t carry their products. I don’t believe in giving information to a third party.

  15. I am proud to own and carry Rugers from a publicly traded American corporation that does not need bribes and strippers to sell their firearms to government apparatchiks. (look it up).

    • $349.97 out the door at our New Gander Mountain. If it’s ever been fired it would surprise me. .40 cal, & 9mm last month traded for an XD the wife didn’t like.

  16. “My guess? GLOCK’s caught wind of non-eligible buyers taking advantage of their Blue Label program.” If so, a request to see all the info. on the 4473’s is overkill, and could subject the store to other potential liability were they to comply. It’s one thing to insist on verifying credentials as entitled to the discount; it’s another to insist on knowing everything on that form (including race, for now) to help them with market research, or to allow Glock’s “friends” to market to them.

  17. I was just in Trop’s brick and mortar shop yesterday. They are a decent shop to deal with. Seems to me if Glock wants to offer special deals to LEO’s. and government employees, they should do their own independent qualification and offer vouchers to said individuals to be redeemed.at participating shops. Leave the 4473’s out of it.

  18. Realistically, I see no reason they should get cut-rate guns. Most are issued government paid for weapons anyway. It would make more sense to offer NRA members a discount. We need more NRA members, more government employees not so much!

  19. So, if the extra special citizens get discounted guns, what do the less equal animals pay? More, so the company can make up the difference by giving the discount ???

    Ok, the company can absolutely make the program participation contingent upon positively identifying that the guns are sold to the target demographic. That said, the full 4473 is absolutely none of Glock’s business, whatsoever. They can certainly ask to see them, but they have no legal authority to see them.

    but, the dealer’s participation in the discount program is discretionary so, here we are.

    I think Trop did the right thing outing this outrageous attempt to get a peek at documents they have no business seeing. I am curious what Glock has to say about this and we should certainly wait for their comment before forming an opinion on the company as a whole. It could be that some nitwit did not seek Gunny approval before asking for the forms.

    Hopefully, something good comes out of this. Maybe they could accept other confirmation of participation in the program. Or, maybe just balance the price with the cost for the not so equal animals on the Glock farm. but seriously… No, you aren’t getting a look at the 4473s.

  20. OMG, it’ a Glock conspiracy to take over the free world! Run for your lives! Everyone, show Glock you will not stand for this, get rid of every Glock you own. Let me give everyone an address to ship them to and I will personally see to it that you never have to see the guns again.

  21. I have bought thru Trop’s even though I live in Oregon, but not a Glock. I have heard of others having this sort of difficulty and I did use the program at my LGS when I bought my G-29.
    I bet this is jus a routine inspection on Glock’s part. I did get the letter from Trop this morning and it seemed clear that this was a “Routine” inspection until personal information was asked for. I would guess they had never been inspected before and did not realize customers personal information would be asked for until this inspector from Glock showed up.

    I would buy from Trops again if they had what I wanted.

  22. Glock is being stubborn and overstepping with the 4473 requirement. There are other simpler, non invasive ways of verifying/proving Blue Label creds. 4473’s are not within a gun manufacturers’ legal jurisdiction.

    • I’m with TROP. 4473s are a government form, not a commercial form. Glock has no legal authority to review or have a copy of them.

  23. Cracks me up that when an LGS stands up for itself and the privacy of its customers, the Glock fan boys want to insinuate something nefarious on the LGS end, rather than applaud the efforts of the LGS to stand by its customers. This includes TTAG, who can’t possibly take the side of a little shop that isn’t going to send them guns to review.

  24. Welp, that gen 4 G20 I’d been eyeballing for a Mechtech carbine conversion is off the table unless I run across one used. Regardless of whatever reason Gaston’s co. might have for doing the audit, demanding 4473’s is a HUGE NO-NO.

    *note – not really a plastic phantastic fan. This was the first Glock I’d considered purchasing since my fathers duty G17’s grip warped back in the middle 80’s, which made mag insertion & extraction difficult.

  25. Sorry, but Glock is in the right with this one. Their discount offer is only open to a restricted group of people and not to the general public. They have a right to verify that only those people who are eligible for the discount are getting it and that their dealers aren’t offering them to disqualified people.

    • They have the right to verify but, as they require a special order form and it is a violation of federal law and AT

    • No, Glock isn’t. There is nothing on a 4473 that will indicate if the person is LEO, security, emt or whatever. That would be on Glock’s forms.

      • I absolutely agree with the fact that Glock has no right to any information on a 4473 ass! This guy is one of these Glock gunslingers. you might as well ask someone for their credit card number while you’re at it to make sure the person who bought it was it the person that filled out the information I mean come on give me a freaking break! I say if they want to make such a big deal about this all they have to do is get their FFL paperwork in order and sell direct to law enforcement officers at the department send the gun to the police station and have their armor issue it to the person and it take the cash and send it to Glock.

  26. Funny how many detectives we have here. Very interesting views on what “seems” to be the reason for what/why took place. Truth is, only Glock knows why they wanted the 4473’s. Humans need to know too much…

  27. So here’s a question… Besides our honesty, what stops us from buying more than 2 discounted Blue Label Glocks if the stores do not furnish a copy of our creds to Glock? Nothing really…

  28. Electronic Security Equipment’s (Best Price in Market).most of security system designed with advanced feature and technologies. All Security systems continuously watch implemented circulations coverage areas. Any wrong operations or unauthorized activities, live means it will directly inform to Specific Members or stations. Thanks by esync

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *