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Last year, Jan Morgan, owner of the Gun Cave Shooting Range in Hot Springs, Arkansas, officially declared her establishment to be a “Muslim-Free Zone”. Apparently, the entrepreneur from the Natural State was concerned that Muslims were a threat to her safety as well as that of her patrons. On making the announcement, Ms. Morgan said she believed that “[I]t will cost me everything I have to fight for this.” In the months after her announcement . . .

it appeared that her beliefs may have been incorrect. In January, Washington Post reporter Abby Ohlheiser checked in with the Gun Cave only to find that “business is booming” since the ban was instituted. But Ms. Morgan’s luck may be about to take a turn for the worse.

On Friday, the Department of Justice advised the Post that it is “monitoring” the gun range for possible violations of Federal civil rights laws, after receiving calls for an investigation from the Arkansas chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union and the Council on American-Islamic Relations. It did not state whether or not it planned to launch an investigation at this time.

The Post also notes that in January, a father and son of South Asian ancestry accused Ms. Morgan of turning them away:

The men, who didn’t want to be identified in local reports out of safety concerns, said they are Hindu and accused the Gun Cave Shooting Range of racial profiling.

“We’re brown; I don’t know if she assumed we were Muslim,” one of the men told the Arkansas Times, a weekly newspaper based in Little Rock. “When she first asked us, she said, ‘I would hope if you were Muslim you guys wouldn’t be cowards and would be upfront about it.’”

Morgan disputes the father and son’s account. She told The Post in January that the pair’s “strange” behavior led her to believe that “these people might not be safe handling firearms in this range,” and that her business doesn’t discriminate against customers based on their skin color.

Does the Gun Cave’s ban on Muslims violate anti-discrimination law in the first place? Professor Eugene Volokh examined the issue earlier in the year, and thinks that may be the case.

The range is probably indeed violating the public accommodations provision of the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, though that’s not completely clear. The Act applies to only particular classes of businesses….

The category under which gun ranges might be covered is “place[s] of exhibition or entertainment.” Daniel v. Paul (1969) held that this term includes “recreational areas” and not just places for spectators to watch events (as in the theaters, concert halls, and stadiums that are listed in the same subsection); United States v. DeRosier (5th Cir. 1971) likewise held that a bar qualified because of the presence of a “juke box, shuffle board and pool table for the use and enjoyment of the bar’s patrons.”

Interestingly enough, Prof. Volokh notes that Arkansas’ antidiscrimination law is broader than federal law, and apparently “covers shooting ranges that are generally open to the public.”

While we can spend all night drinking White Russians and arguing about whether or not discrimination in public businesses against people of certain religions is more similar to discrimination against people on the basis of skin color or ancestry (and, Richard Dawkins’ critique notwithstanding, I think that this question is less straightforward than it seems at first glance, given the fact that ethnicity, culture, and religion can sometimes be intertwined,) Prof. Volokh’s analysis of the law is probably spot-on.

L’affaire Morgan hasn’t received a lot of attention from the usual anti-gun people who would push for legal action, probably because a ‘win’ for them here would just establish that federal law protects people from discrimination on the basis of religion…which might actually encourage more people to exercise that right.

That said, this isn’t exactly a winning hand for the pro-gun side on the culture war front. You want to bet that this case gets progressively more attention from the left the closer we get to election day, 2016?

 

DISCLAIMER: The above is an opinion piece; it is not legal advice, nor does it create an attorney-client relationship in any sense. If you need legal advice in any matter, you are strongly urged to hire and consult your own counsel. This post is entirely my own, and does not represent the positions, opinions, or strategies of my firm or clients.

96 Responses to DoJ to Monitor Arkansas “Muslim-Free Zone” Gun Range

  1. on a technical standpoint how does this differ from the christian baker from turning away gay clients on basis of religious preference?

    • Religion is a protected class. Sexuality is not. It will probably be added to the pile of protected classes eventually, though.

      • Federally speaking, I guess you are correct. Oddly enough, it is the “religious” bakers who have been losing against the “sexuality” complainants pretty regularly of late, tho.

        • “I’m not sure that the “religious” bakers in this most recent debate have really “lost” anything: ”

          Yeah.

          The ‘Fvck This, we’re outta here’ response was interesting, to say the least. It left me with a not positive reaction to them.

      • And the very concept of “protected classes” is a blatant violation of the Equal Protection clause.

        Bottom line: all people, regardless of demographic identification, have a right of public accommodation in businesses that are open for public commerce. “We don’t serve your kind here” in a public business is a violation of that right, regardless of who “your kind” is.

        • There is no “right of public accommodation”. It is a made up privilege. There is a right of free association and there is a right of free contract. You just support slavery in a prettier package.

        • There is no “right of public accommodation”.

          I would love to live in a society that has minimal government intrusion, where anyone may engage in commerce with whomever they choose, and market forces are similarly free of government intrusion such that the market can sort out any issues that arise.

          We don’t live in that world, and under the law of the land as interpreted by our black-robed tyrants, there is a “right of public accommodation” just as surely as there is constitutional protection of a “right to privacy”.

        • Would she have a obligation to sell/rent guns/sell ammo to a guy walking in with a sign on his chest saying “I vow every morning and am compelled to kill all those who will not bow to my will!”?

          Of course not.

          So now go read the koran.

        • Claiming to be a muslim means publicly acknowledging Islam, which is explicitly and implicitly and has been a threat to all non muslims since islams founding.

          Odd that someone so compelled to differentiate between Brevick’s claims to “cultural Christianity” and your own authentic faith would have a problem understanding that.

          Perhaps you need to review Christianity’s historical and contemporary interaction with islam.

    • From a rational, free-market perspective the two situations do not differ.
      Any person or business has the right (although abrogated in this instance) to associate, or not, with anyone he/she/it chooses. (Unless it takes any government funding, in which case, it has no right to discriminate against any citizen).

      Freedom includes the freedom to be a racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, bigot. It also includes the freedom for the more socially evolved to choose not to patronize that business.

      If she really wants to keep Muslims out, she has that right, no matter how unenlightened the rest of us might think her. I suspect though, that all she needs to do to make it legal is turn the range into a private club (even if the membership is a mere formality–e.g. $1 life membership). Going private is the tactic a lot of country clubs used (or maybe still use) to keep out black and Jewish members (an equally unenlightened practice). And I think that one held up in court.

    • Let’s keep the facts straight, the baker did not turn away his long-time customers who were gay because of WHO they were, but rather the ACT that they were performing. All the supposed high powered nuanced thinking of the left but they somehow don’t understand the difference between a PERSON and an ACT.

      • I guess we all should fill out a questionnaire for every business we try to buy something from. After all, birth control and masturbation is the same exact level of sodomy as gay sex. Religion is a poor excuse for what’s really going on. Gay is “icky” to some people and hand jobs are not, so they discriminate.

        • Being gay was not “icky” to the baker, florist, and photographer. In all 3 cases the businesses happily provided their services to gay people and the couples in question. The business owners however did not want to PARTICIPATE in a SACRED ACT with the people.

          The Left places no value on freedom of religion because they are downright hostile to the idea of religion itself.
          That’s the real lesson of the issue.

        • How is marriage sacred?

          This is exactly why I left the church. The vast majority of people I’ve known who profess to be religious don’t even really understand their own religion. They’re just in it for the feels.

        • If marriage is a sacred act how come any two people with incompatible religions (or no religion, or are spiritual but unaffiliated with a religion) can get married by signing a government document anywhere in the USA?

          What you mean to say is YOU consider marriage a sacred act. A lot of people consider abstinence from all violence and tools of violence (weapons) a sacred act. Doesn’t mean they should be able to discriminate in business against me because I don’t share their beliefs and they don’t like the reprehensible acts I commit. If I order a pizza for after an IDPA match, I pays the money, I gets the pizza. I’m not looking for an editorial.

        • How is marriage sacred?

          This is exactly why I left the church.
          The vast majority of people I’ve known who profess to be religious don’t even really understand their own religion. They’re just in it for the feels.

          Maybe if you stayed awake in church while you were briefly there maybe you have learned something.
          If you don’t agree with me that marriage is a sacrament than maybe you should complain to the Vatican.

          http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm

        • What you mean to say is YOU consider marriage a sacred act.

          Well me and a couple billion other people who think similarly and who are members of various religions which until recently used to have the right to freely exercise in this country.

          Since the rising of the MFM and the Gaystapo, not so much any more.

          I am not surprised at all that the Left does not believe in the BOR protections for religion due to the simple fact that the vast majority of leftists have utter contempt for religion.

          It’s what they’ve been taught from kindergarten through grad school, hatred towards America and religion.

          I get it.

        • That’s the beauty of individual freedom and separation of church and state. It doesn’t matter how many “billion” people agree with you. It doesn’t matter how many billion people don’t agree with you either. I don’t, and I don’t have to, and you can’t make me.

          My marriage is as sacred or as secular as I believe it to be. BUT as far as my marriage affects you, it’s a legal arrangement and that’s all you need to be concerned with. If you ascribe meaning beyond that to your marriage, then enjoy, but don’t ascribe it to mine.

          As always, if you don’t like the secular legal institution we call marriage in the US, then go to some other country run by a religion or some divinely-inspired monarchy. But before you leave, think about it that there’s a reason why this country has been more successful in culture and technology and enterprise and human rights in a mere 239 years than any other country has been given several thousands of years a head start. We did things a little differently than every other country before us. I wonder what that was?

        • Why would I ask the Vatican anything?

          Catholicism takes the already silly parts of Christianity and goes full retard.

          Or can you point out to me anywhere in the Bible where it says Mary was a virgin for her whole life or people are required to pray through saints?

      • Actually they didn’t turn anyone away. They had no problem serving anyone, but when asked if they would cater a same sex wedding she (the daughter) said no because of her religious believes. That’s when all those hypocrites spouting tolerance destroyed their business.

  2. Funny that people can’t be turned away from a public establishment based on religion, which is a choice and not an unchangeable biological trait like skin or gender, but people can be and are encouraged to be turned away from public establishments based on carrying a gun, which is also a choice.

    Though, we all already knew which civil right is the black sheep in the eyes of modern faux-Americans.

  3. I remember when this came to light, and thinking that it was either pretty dumb or completely motivated by publicity. My considered opinion is that she wants publicity, and picked a pretty dumb way to get it. Regardless, this south asian duo kerfuffle is strictly he said-she said, and not worthy of comment.

    • If you follow the picture link through to her page, you can see that she’s an “activist”, so yeah, it’s probably a publicity stunt. The six muslims in Arkansas probably haven’t even noticed the ban.

  4. Watch your flank while shooting anywhere! Keep awear at all times, in church, theaters, parks, strolling down the sidewalk etc. And always your six.

  5. our Country must be a “Muslim Free Zone” they are out breeding everyone else 8-1. if we had peace as of tonight and not one more person died world wide…. they will rule the world in 50yrs and the world will be 60% muslim in 100yrs.

    • Ur assuming they won’t kill each other off which is a poor assumption if one looks at the middle east

      • The UN and The BOY King are moving around Muslim refugees and terrorists without background checks in to Europe and the USA by the millions… over 4million have come to the USA no joke. All will get 100% welfare and Voter rights day one!

        2016 may be lost just from the illegals and refugees. Guarenteed they will not check one registration for a new Democrat and will accept ALL duplicate Votes.

        we must have 100% voter turn out or our country is DEAD!

  6. I see the fed.gov has its priorities of protecting those that wish to destroy America, and punish its own people.

  7. If I lived nearby that range I would vote with my wallet and pay to use her range; similar to the way that I go out of my way to eat at chick filet. If you are so butt hurt about her policy, get a garden hose and squirt the sand out of you privates. If need be you can fill out a Hurt Feelings report.

  8. There was a time when any business was free to discriminate against anyone in hiring or service. Now it’s a federal crime. How did that happen? I would prefer to allow any private enterprise to discriminate as much as it wishes, in any manner it wishes, then let the public at large vote with their pocketbooks. If we need the heavy hand of the government to enforce their ever evolving version of what constitutes acceptable behavior, then it means the government has no faith in the good judgement of the public, or the individual. I used to own a private shooting club. I did not deny membership to anyone, except those I deemed to be unsafe. Was I discriminating? Most certainly, but it was a practical form of discrimination, the kind that is practiced at almost any shooting range, and at all government ranges. If Ms Morgan catches too much legal flak about her approach, she can always switch to one that is more palatable, or she can argue in court that she does not allow Muslims because of her understanding of the tenants of their faith. It would be interesting to see the theological debate that would be bandied about before a judge and jury.

    • I believe it was the Heart of Atlanta Hotel decision from the mid ’60s. One of SCOTUS’s worst in quite a while (and that’s saying a LOT). The court ruled that a hotel’s customers were possibly from out of state, therefore the feds could regulate hotel policies as “interstate commerce”. It quickly spread to every other type of business.

    • It happened because such discrimination was extremely common in the South against “coloreds”, to the point where it was practically impossible to find a business that didn’t practice some form of segregation (and even if some business owners would prefer it to be otherwise, they had to tow the line or get in troubles with the dominant white community). Due to such an extreme degree of discrimination, it because obvious that the only way to provide an even ground regardless of the race was to desegregate the private businesses, and the only way they would desegregate is by force of law – and it would have to be a federal law because the states in question had white majorities and disenfranchised their blacks.

      • Oh no, you have it all wrong! Southern segregation was just about to end freely! Just like how slavery was just about to end freely until those damn Northern aggressors started interfering!

        if it’s not obvious.

  9. There is nothing inherently wrong with Islam. Wicked men seek any method to encourage wickedness wherever they go and they learned long ago that religion is a great motivator. As a One Who Submits Themselves to the Will of GOD, a proud American, and a PotG, I have studied the Qur’an and never found 72 virgins or advocacy for the murder of innocents. I don’t want to force my religious, political or other world views on anyone. And the beauty of the free market, I can spend my dollars to shoot somewhere else if I find myself in her neck of the woods. It is her right to run her business any way she chooses. For the record, if some whacko comes around shooting the place up, screaming Allahu Akbar or not, I will be the first to put him down. No righteous person condones the murder of non-combatant people.

    • Well said!
      I wish there were more enlightened Christians (an assumption, based on probabilities) like you around.

    • “I have studied the Qur’an and never found 72 virgins or advocacy for the murder of innocents…”

      Obviously you haven’t studied it, or you have the reading comprehension of a gnat The Qu’ran is an even more murderous re-write of the OT to suit the psycho Mohammed and his ways, just like the OT was an excuse-fest for those bronze-age primitives to as they wish. Here’s just a few verses from the pile of nonsense that is the book of the ‘religion of peace’

      Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.

      Quran (4:74) – “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.”

      Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

      Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”

      There’s hundreds more quotes like this throughout the Qu’ran. Just like the Bible, there’s a percentage of people who ignore everything in it, completely reinterpret it, and make it into something it’s not- peaceful. I’m fine with those people. But the fact is that all the Semitic sandcult texts Torah, Bible, Qu’ran are filled with violence and admonitions to kill sinners and non-believers. Islam is worse in a few ways, the main one being the call for Islamic rule, and the fact that there are a vast majority stupid enough to believe any of the tripe in that book.

    • Salam Walaykum!

      Fantastic post you made, Bob. 🙂 As a Submitter, I find it perplexing as to the antipathy we peoples of the same one God feel for each other. It is like seeing two men in a barbecue locked in bitter disagreement over whether the more pure beef barbecue is brisket or short ribs and insisting that their dishes are entirely unrelated, even as the diners around them occupy themselves with pulled pork, burnt ends, road chicken, cornbread, cole slaw, and beans.

      Having said that, I am looking forward to seeing how this case goes. My bet is that this ends up backfiring horribly on the proprietress.

      I am studying through the Qur’an myself and taking notes. So far, the only versus I have encountered (as of Surah 2) about fighting set some pretty reasonable rules on it. Fight in self-defense only against those who attack you and oppress you. You are not to strike first unprovoked. You are not to kill those foes who surrender. During Ramadan, you may only fight for things which are inflicted upon you during Ramadan. You may only fight in the sanctuary if you are assaulted first. Fighting is only permitted because injustice is even worse than killing. Once a peace is reached, there is to be no more fighting, nor shall vengeance be sought. To surpass these bounds is forbidden and a sin against God, and God is mindful of what you do. So essentially, only you may only fight to protect yourselves from aggression and no more. Sounds like the RoE that civvy gun owners get for firing shots in anger.

      • If you can’t find any of the hundreds of passages about taking over the world, kill all who insult Allah, fatwahs, killing non-believers, then you are not reading the Qu’ran – or you’re reading one so heavily edited it’ll be about 200 pages.

        Good luck with your studies, perhaps you’ll learn something.

      • First of all Islam was CREATED by a Murderer, Rapist, leader of a Caravan Raiders. less then 10% of the Quran has anything remotely peacefull in and that was in begining of the book. By Islamic Law all new verses override all preveious ones.

        the Pamphlet called the Quran was and is to this day a Terrorist/murderers Handbook. every aspect is about control and eradicating All other Faiths through Torture and Murder. Every Last middle eastern nation was Islam to rule the Globe. ALL their leaders call for it daily. they openly call for death of all none muslims and the end of the western world.

        i feel sorry for anyone born into and forced to stay a muslim. i know the fear of Honor Killing is a big reason. if one leaves, whole families die.

        every place muslim go, they change the culture that was there into an Islamic culture. the Quran COMMANDS muslims to LIE to gain power to fither the Jihad.

        sense Islam was created in 610ad it has been at War with the rest of the world.

        To even say you studied the Quran and found nothing bad means you are either lying for islam or cant read and just say liberal talking points.

    • “Flame On”

      About what?

      Your slightly earlier post of: “For the record, if some whacko comes around shooting the place up, screaming Allahu Akbar or not, I will be the first to put him down.?

      Not from me.

      Thank you for posting that, actually.

    • I monitored her a little bit myself, but I see some similarities between her and Monica Lewinsky, so game off.

      • Aaaaaaaand, who of very high public elected office do you suspect she has orally copulated with, *exactly*?

        I’d really be interested in knowing…

      • Ohh…

        I thought that she had just spilled some milk on her shirt or something. The Lewinsky connection makes much more sense.

        😀

  10. No strong feelings about this. But if this gal can’t tell the difference between muslims,Sikhs or Hindus she’s got a problem. It seems a mite bizzare to turn away paying customers with legal firearms. I love the odd pairing of muslims and the jewish dominated ACLU…has the ACLU ever gone to bat FOR gun owners?

    • The ACLU knows that the NRA, SAF, GOA, NAGR, etc. are doing a good job protecting gun-rights, and they don’t need or want any help from the ACLU. So I think the ACLU policy is to let those orgs do their thing with gun-rights, and the ACLU will concentrate on all the other rights (civil liberties).

      • The ACLU doesn’t even believe that the Second Amendment is an individual right, so they won’t fight for it at all.

        “In striking down Washington D.C.’s handgun ban by a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court’s decision in D.C. v. Heller held for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to keep and bear arms, whether or not associated with a state militia. The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court’s conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment.”

        https://www.aclu.org/second-amendment

        • Yes, ACLU doesn’t care for your gun rights. They don’t fight for them, and they don’t fight against them. They do fight for all the numerous other rights that are also equally important, like freedom of speech and freedom of (and from) religion.

    • In late 2001, a group of idiots in Phoenix killed a Sikh man in retaliation for the WTC attack, because he was brown skinned with an Asiatic turban.

      Also, the ACLU has made stranger alliances in Skokie, IL:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skokie,_Illinois#NSPA_controversy

      They (led by a Jewish lawyer) went to bat for the rights of Nazis to rally. They understand (or at least did back then) that we don’t have the Constitutional protections to protect expressing popular ideas, we have it to protect the unpopular ones.

    • But if this gal can’t tell the difference between muslims,Sikhs or Hindus she’s got a problem.

      +1.

      I’ve got some very dear friends who are Sikh. I’ve seen discrimination derived from such ignorance first-hand. Sikhs by-and-large are law-abiding, pious, and fiercely patriotic. Why? Because they appreciate the freedoms offered by our country – freedoms they are denied in southeast Asia, where they have historically been discriminated against and slaughtered, especially by Muslims. So it is a particularly ignorant affront to discriminate against a Sikh because you’re too stupid to know the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim.

  11. Only Muslims I’ve ever personally known have all been in the military. She would discriminate against veterans, too?
    I think not. She’s just doing this for the press. “Business is booming”? Of course. How many Muslims actually live in the area, much less, (would otherwise) patronize her range? I’m guessing not enough to matter, financially speaking. But there are plenty of bigots who support her bigotry, especially by buying into her nonsense and giving her even more money.

    Not surprised she specifically questioned two men of South Asian ancestry if they were Muslim. Does she question the OFWGs? I’d bet not. Kicked out because they were “unsafe”? Let’s call a “spade a spade” (as many like to say) and she’s just another asshole.

    • “Let’s call a “spade a spade” (as many like to say) and she’s just another asshole.”

      Exactly, Grindstone.

      She thought she was going to be cute and antagonize the civil rights Nazis.

      She’s likely to get a very ugly lesson instead.

    • This. But hey, at least she did all a favor and inform the world of what ignorant, terrible human being she is.

      I for one (a Christian) would avoid her range and her ilk like the plague.

  12. So, our Progressive President is sending his Department Of (Social) Justice to harass a private citizen exercising her right to deny service to anyone for any reason. Is that a correct way of looking at this?

      • The BOY KING ia lowlife POS traitor ….

        the left and his administration has ignored and even promoted/participated in worst crimes on Christians. they have done everything they can to shutdown churches that disagree with him. using the IRS to eviscerate Christians and conservatives.

        we have every right to bring him into it as he has created the environment of lawlessness in our nation. he hss imported over 4million islamic refugees and even more illegals… open boarders, treason not enforcing our laws, and knowling bringing refugees and illegals into our nation WITHOUT background checks or due process. legal immigrants are bring screwed and do are we.

        we pay over 600billion because of the illegals as of 2012 numbers. add over 6 million between them sense then. they admit this number… over 2million a year they know about between over staying Visas and the border. on the border we only catch 10% and only 2% of the 10% is ever deported under the BOY KING.

        so yes she is valid in her fear!
        Yes The BOY must be held responsible!

  13. In America we’re so free we can’t freely choose who to associate with or sell our goods & services to. Ah. Let freedom ring!

  14. It would have been nice if the flight schools had discriminated against Muslims. But they would be called racisssttt!!!!
    A gun store did discriminate against a Muslim and stopped a murder in texas I think 2 years ago.

  15. She is just going to get steamrolled by this political correct environment we live in. She should just take the whole range private and make it a private gun club.

    Just sell memberships

    She’d achieve the same result without being killed by the leftists.

      • Read the Post article and it appears that she does require membership.

        In a lengthy interview with The Post, Morgan confirmed that she did, in fact, ask the two people in question to leave the gun range, where they were applying for membership.

        • That doesn’t state it’s membership-only. Plenty of ranges are open to the public but offer memberships for range use. I can either pay $10 for an all-day lane rental or $200 for all year walk-in rental without fee at my local range.

  16. I wonder if it would be discriminatory to require that females have a clitoris to be able to shoot. That would keep the female Muslims out.

    To keep Muslim males out you can maybe have a requirement that nobody is allowed to shoot if their wife is under 9 years old.

  17. just make her entrance into a pork BBQ 50% off with range receipt. Zero muslims will cross the pork restaurant to get to the Range.

    put the smoker out back for all to enjoy next to the BBQ out door Dining to watch the range activities.

    instant Muslim Free Zone. and lots more customers.

  18. Islam is a religion of peace. Obama and the left say so. There’s nothing in the Quran or Hadith which advocates violence against infidels. I challenge anyone to find any verses in Islam.

    And if I offer that challenge, I’d better hope that there is a poor internet connection. Because Islam does in fact advocate violence. On multiple occasions. And Islamic culture opposes homosexuality and treats women as 2nd class citizens. So, is the challenge to be tolerant of their intolerance?

    Surely that’s what a sophisticated world thinker must do. While I’m not expressedly intolerant of Islam under all circumstances, one would have to be a dullard to miss violent Islamic terrorism of ISIS, ISIL Boko Haram, etc. Especially when they murder and behead Christians.

    However, not all Muslims are violent, so I certainly won’t treat them that way. But if one were to actually study the life of Muhammad, they would find a rapist, murderer and warlord. That’s the primary prophet of Islam, who Muslims desire to emulate.

    Some sources:

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/ten_reasons.htm

    Please take a moment to educate yourself before making ignorant statements about Muhammad being a peaceful or moral man or Islam being a “religion of peace.” Those statements are every bit as ignorant as saying that theism and atheism are the same thing. They are diabolically opposed.

  19. Screw the UNconstitutional CRA!

    Private biz: she could’ve banned anyone without disclosing why, regardless, even under the CRA. If someone doesn’t like the fact that an x biz sevices Muslims, then vote with your dollar: do a silent boycott by simply not going. Or, organize one.

    That said, that idiot over tanned delusional one ton ho, if seen in Michigan, she’d easily pass for an Arab, and be welcomed with open arms by Muslim establishments or equally pass as an illegal Mexican in the Southern Border states.

    But if she really wants to be consistent in her beliefs, she may not wanna deal with Arab Muslims’ No.1 Customer: the Fed. Govt and the DoD, who count among them Saudi Arabia, the world class beheaders who out IsIses IsIs, who consider women drivers as terrorists, whom in collusion with Israeli and US ‘Intel’ networks funded Wahabist Madrasas, including in collusion between the billionaire dynasty of the Bin Ladin Construction co with their friends the Bushes funded Osama Bin Ladin amd the Mujahadeen, who later trained the 15 of 19 September 11th hijackers during the height of Pakistani ISI supporting days.

    By extension, she should NOT service ANY US servicemen who literally helped train those terrorists and Afghani national police who in turn often trained other Taliban and alCIAda in tactics they were just taught by the US military.

    If she hates Muslims, she should extend the hatred to Muslim frakkers like the US military and those who animate it.

    Just WTF is it with idiots and their need to find some tribal team jerzee raison d’être to ‘fight’ for, as some arbitrary misguided ‘mission’ in life??

    Oh, and anyone who visits her range, if she carries ANY CaraCal made in United A-RAB Emirates, Carnik the Turkish company, and the NON- POF-USA “POF” who make Hk MP5 clones, you know she’s just an idiot and is full of shit.

  20. Being that the range in question is indeed already a private club that requires the payment of dues to use it, none of the laws that the ACLU knowingly invokes erroneously do not apply.

    Oh, and I’d avoid her like the plague if I was in the area anyway.

  21. I was under the impression that ATF regulations empower firearm business owners to refuse the sale or rental of firearms to anyone, for any reason. The owner is legally protected if they refuse sale because the person is “acting strangely”, “not handling firearms safely”, or a potential risk to self or others. No explanation is necessary, and no one would blame an owner for refusing to sell a gun to a suicide.

    I think that is what this owner meant when she said the two Hindu men were “…not safe handling firearms….” She’s smart, and standing on solid legal ground. She can say whatever she wants in general terms (“Muslims are not welcome in my store”), as long as the SPECIFIC reason for refusing service is one protected under ATF regulations (“They were being unsafe.”). Muslims aren’t gay, and this is not a bakery.

  22. Debating which religious book preaches more violence is useless. Face it crazy people use religion as their excuse to agin power or act crazy. White Yellow Black Christian Jew Muslim take your pick.

    Deciding that all of a people or all of a religion are good or bad is lazy. The same lazy that anti gunners use in refusing to see the details POG see. You see Lanza stole a gun was mentally imbalanced. They think ban ARs and large magazines will keep them safe, You know better!
    You know some bad crazy Christians. Admit it. Then stop painting all Muslims as bad.

      • Look up “Lord’s Resistance Army”. They mostly target other Christians (whom they deem “not properly Christian”), but that’s not really any different from the likes of ISIS or Boko Haram, who also summarily pronounce all Muslims who don’t support them to be traitors and infidels.

        • so you comparing one small group in a civil war…. vs ISIS and all the islamic groups that want global rule!? hmmm

          not even close, Isis is now world wide, islamic terror is world wide. but you act as if it equal because of one group the is trying over throw one tiny irrelevant government.

          wow you guys really are out of ideas to help Islam look “acceptable”.

        • Typical leftist tactics trying to draw equivalence between two things of monumental difference in size and scope to try to justify their cowardliness.

          Cowardliness is at the heart of leftist political correctness.

          Prager’s Rule: “Those who don’t fight evil hate those who do.”

          …or longer form…..

          Those who turn away from fighting evil need to be aware, that the notion of evil as dark is actually the opposite of the truth. Evil is so bright, that people can’t stare at it with their eyes. It’s blinding; so people look at other things. Instead of fighting evil, they fight carbon emissions.

  23. Free market and hands off government versus totalitarian state… hmm. Let’s reframe that. What if we said that ‘free market’ argument about discriminating being allowed was actually called ‘popular sovereignty’ where the people vote – that means one vote per person counts for that much directly to the outcome without an electoral college. The left would love that because they drive masses with fear towards their outcome (think about gun control). Really, that proposal to allow everyone to discriminate as they please is not ‘free market’ so much as ‘popular sovereignty’. How many issues if left to a direct vote by the masses would send us back to the segregation after the American Civil War or to pre-WW2 Nazi Germany? Would the pro gun crowd get what they want? Would the Christian Right be happy? Would the Progressives and Communists be happy? What is the best way to go about this issue really? What is the goal?

  24. it used too be if you owned a business you had freedom of choice in who you would serve, our PC laws have given authority too destroy our rights, culture and Heritage!
    Islam is the only religion the demands you kill Heretics!
    guess who the Heretics are Clue: people not of that Faith!
    So yea; it makes me nervous when you have Muslims training for an internal American Jihad at the the expense of our lives and Freedom just too further their Leaders power base! dying for their leaders greed all in the name of their God!
    We have Immigrants fighting against the very things that
    made our country great!

  25. Do you want to believe just what you hear or are you open to other ideas? Are you so scared that you are scared of all Muslims?

    Should I be afraid of all young white males who are on or are just off of their ADHD meds or anti-depressants? Because they seem a dangerous threat. You want the Gun control folks to not limit your rights in the face of this child killing violence yet you are okay seeing all Muslims as out to get you. The left sees this. It makes you seem less responsible to own guns. Do this for yourself!

    Dogs.
    Some dogs bite.
    All dogs bite.
    Which is it?
    Restrict dog ownership.
    Confiscate all dogs.
    Why? I don’t want anyone to be bitten.

    • You may want to check the ethnicity of the Va Tech shooter, Oikos shooter, Santa Monica shooter, Navy Yard shooting, Ft Hood-Nadal Hassan shooting etc. Don’t forget the beltway snipers or for that matter the background of the Santa Barbara stabber/shooter/vehecular assault guy.

    • H, I challenge you to go visit any majority muslim country. You will see that there are 2 types of muslims. The first are the ones who are raping, robbing, looting, assaulting, and murdering infidels, gays, and women. The second are the “moderate” ones who sit quietly by and hand the first ones the ammunition. The “moderates” do NOTHING to stop the extremists so they are every bit as bad. These countries are violent and the people living there THRIVE in that violence. They do not suddenly lose those violent tendencies when they cross a border into a secular country! Instead, they set about trying to force that secular country into changing to a muslim country! ALL muslims are evil. They will ALL happily kill you and your family if their imam tells them to do so or issues a fatwa against you so YES they must all be treated the SAME!

  26. “this question is less straightforward than it seems at first glance, given the fact that ethnicity, culture, and religion can sometimes be intertwined”

    It’s irrelevant. In a free country, one is free to turn away people who seek your services based on their race, cultural sympathies, or religion.

  27. You don’t hand a loaded weapon to someone who hates you! M’slims shout “Death to America” in their homeland then come here to kill us. Do NOT pretend that these are “peaceful” people because the “moderates” sat and watched the “extremists” slaughter gays, women, and infidels because their beliefs tell them this is acceptable!

    Islam is a cult that has 7 different words that give muslims permission to lie and idiots here want to pretend they are nice friendly people who just want to live amongst us. The Q’ran COMMANDS muslims to either convert infidels OR tax then kill them. Read the Q’ran then read the 30 Year Plan for America! islam is a hate filled way of life that demands infidel blood be shed. If it was Christians, Jews, Hindus, or Satanists who were following the same tenets of islam that command you to lie, cheat, steal, rape, rob, and murder anyone who does not believe the same as you then there would be an uproar yet we are supposed to welcome islam with open arms?!

    Go to a majority muslim country. See what these people are like when they rule. Then ask yourself what makes you erroneously believe that these cavemen will shed their barbaric nature by simply crossing a border into the USA?!

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