costco

By Brandon via concealedcarry.org

A reader, Victor, posted his recent Costco story on concealednation.org’s Facebook page, and it was intriguing enough to share with everyone else. I spoke with him afterwards to get a little more of the story as well. Here goes: “So… I stopped by Costco in Mesa Arizona today. I was carrying concealed and I guess the doorman noticed a slight bulge in my right hip under my shirt. He then tell me I can’t come in the store armed.” . . .

I looked around and there where no signs posted anywhere prohibiting carrying firearms. Still after having a discussion with management I wasn’t allowed and they say is a Costco policy. I’ve been shopping there for years and always carry concealed. I have a CCW but is not needed in Arizona. I asked the management, what stops someone else with bad intentions walking in with a firearm ?… I got the same robotic response. So what they told me was that since I had disclosed that I in fact was armed, I couldn’t walk in.

While it’s been Costco’s policy not to allow firearms in their stores for a while, it’s pretty . . . ballsy . . . for an employee to see a bulge, not knowing what it really is, and then telling the customer that he needs to leave the store.

Just to confirm this (my above assumption based on the story), I asked Victor if the employee did indeed assume that it was a firearm. Sure enough, he did. Here are the steps that occurred according to Victor, in TL,DR format:

1) Victor walks into Costco in Mesa, AZ
2) An employee sees a bulge and immediately believes it’s a firearm and tells him that he can’t bring a firearm in, per their No Firearms policy
3) Victor tells him that it is a firearm and that it’s concealed
4) Management gets involved and tells Victor to leave as well

According to the Legal Heat app, Victor wasn’t breaking the law since there were no posted signs (see #12 below under ‘Prohibited Areas’):

laws

Also according to Victor, he asked management if there were any signs posted, and they informed him that there were not. They also claimed that they have no obligation to post the signs and could still ask customers to leave.

My response would have been: “What makes you think that’s a firearm? What if it’s my insulin pump? I’m going shopping now.”

Find another store, Victor. One that won’t throw you out on the street for being a law-abiding citizen.

122 Responses to Costco Bars Concealed Carrier From Entering Mesa, AZ Store

    • You can go buy costco gift cards and enter and shop with no membership. You can pick up a $20 card and buy any dollar amount you want. You can even buy nothing, as long as you have the card to get you in.

        • I have a Urostomy pouch myself & I have been thought to have been a ” potential ” shoplifter & even been told by policemen when pulled over on routine traffic stops etc. that they wanted to know WHAT was in my pants & I politely raise my shirt, show them & then tell them if they want to embarrass themselves any further then we can take this to the ” Next Level “, not once have I EVER been taken up on my offer to ” Take it to the Next Level ” as they KNOW I’d sue their asses off for the harassment, embarrassment & the general hassle of it all………..

          People are just assholes by nature sometimes, they really shouldn’t be ” Eyeballing my Junk ” anyways, but as nosy people do, they always seem to be interested in what you have in your pants……. Idiots !!!!!

    • you don’t need a membership to shop at Costco if you’re there to buy alcohol. something about speakeasies and requiring a membership to purchase alcohol being against federal law.

      • No alcohol sold at Costcos here in the nearly gun-free utopia of Maryland. Nothing fun is allowed at our Costcos

    • You are ok in FL because signs lack force of law. However, they can ask us to leave for an unspecified reason.

        • They can’t “force” you to leave, but they can and will trespass you. From what I understand (I may be wrong) if that happens and the police become involved then it turns into “trespassing with a firearm.”

        • If you’re asked to leave and you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing. That’s true pretty much everywhere in the US.

        • If the ask you to leave and you refuse, they can call the police to file a trespass order against you. If they have a no camera policy, they would file a trespass, with a pistol, it would be armed. Simple, if asked to leave, leave. They don’t have to state a reason regardless if you are ccw’ing or not. A legal weapon wouldn’t be a valid reason. After the ask you to leave, should you refuse, it would become an armed trespass.

      • The problem is that costco is an outstanding store and has brands I really like and can’t find anywhere else, and their prices and quality are hard to beat, and in many towns, like mine, there is no choice for that type of store.

        • Why can’t Sam’s Club ever get its sh*t together? It bugs me to give them money too. Their board is chock full of Seattle libtards except for Ben Carson. Their ex-CEO is a big-time Obama fanboy.

      • Because I’m a closet anti-gunner, but because I’m secret squirrel, I have to be subtle about the ways I support the cause.

        Alternately, it’s because Costco is a quarter mile from my house on my way to/from work, they literally have the cheapest gas in town, and I save an average of 25% on the groceries I buy there over buying those same items at the grocery store. Sometimes my convenience trumps my principles. I’m very active when it comes to politics and legislation, so I feel I can afford to let minor stuff like this slide past me.

        Conversely, I’ve found that those that speak loudly about “They’re not getting my money!” well, that’s often all those folks do. They’ll be super-duper proud of themselves for not shopping at Costco because of the no guns sign/policy, but when anti gun legislation or policy is proposed at the local, state, or national level, you don’t hear a goddamn peep out of them. They’ll make excuses that they don’t have time, or that politicians don’t listen anyway, or some other BS, but the bottom line is they don’t do it.

        Everybody makes their own choices. My choice is to ignore the stupid sign and get my shopping done quickly and cheaply.

    • yup, like the signs at the movie theater…….. heard of them, but (claim to) have seen nothing. I no see,,,, they do not apply. Rather be kicked outt than be caught unprepared.

  1. OK. We have a Costco up here in VT, just down the road. I’ll make sure to CC in there with a nice bulge in the near future and see if anyone says anything. Or OC, for that matter. I’ve accidentally been walking around in the local Hannaford’s supermarket with my shirt untucked over the handgun and it rode up above it; people must have seen it, including store personnel and no one said boo.

    • How ’bout this: “Excuse me? That’s a health care device.” True statement, that device can be very good for health. If they press on, then say: “Seriously? You’re asking me about my health care issues?” (in other words none of your f*cking business, who are you to ask about my confidential health issues).

      But what if they then say: “If that is a gun, then you must leave because we don’t allow our customers to carry guns into our store.” What then?

      • Bob said:
        How ’bout this:
        “Excuse me? That’s a health care device.” “Seriously? You’re asking me about my health care issues?”

        But what if they then say: “If that is a gun, then you must leave because we don’t allow our customers to carry guns into our store.” What then?

        How ’bout this:
        “Excuse me but are you wearing ladies pink panties?”
        “Seriously? You’re asking me about my underwear?”

        But what if they then say: “If those are ladies pink panties, then you must leave because we don’t allow our customers to wear ladies pink panties in our store.” What then?

        So Bob if you lie and say “no it isn’t a gun” / “no they aren’t pink”, have you then committed a crime? Can the police arrest you because you violated their N.L. P.P.P?

  2. What? There’s a Costco out there that doesn’t support citizen carry?
    Erik Scott’s family would be shocked, I tell ya.

  3. If a Costco door man noticed the guys gun that quickly, Victor really needs to rethink his method of “concealment”.

    My buddy is a cop who admits he can never tell when I do or don’t have my Ruger LC9S on me. About the only time I don’t is when I plan on drinking when we are out. I carry IWB at 4 o’clock with a Garrett Industries Silent Thunder Fusion. I’m a bit of a print-o-phobe so I always do mirror checks before I leave the house in the morning, especially with a new shirt. I think Victor might want to start doing the same. Not trying to bust his balls, but just something to think about. Better to have a Costco door man burst his concealment bubble than say… a felon looking to score himself a handgun with a sucker punch.

    • I dropped my Costco membership because of their anti-2nd amendment stance months ago and got a membership with Sam’s Club. I must have spent around $5000 a year at Costco before, but today, I am on track to spending that same amount at Sam’s Club. Sure, my money is small change to Costco, but I refuse to support such a vile excuse for a company, one that refuses to support the most basic of civil rights in our country. As a hobby, I teach firearms course, and I make it a point to tell my students to avoid these kinds of companies, and now I have another story to push that home.

    • i prefer BJs, everone loves BJs…

      yes the store, what would make you think i ment anything else…..

  4. I’m not sure why this news is a surprise. This is Costco’s clear policy and is explicitly spelled out in their membership terms that one agrees to when becoming a member there.

    “Costco policy prohibits firearms to be brought into the warehouse, except in the case of authorized law enforcement officers.”

    After the incident in 2012 where a concealed carrier was gunned down by police at a Costco after a loss prevention officer called them I have encouraged everyone I know to cancel their membership there and become a member at Sam’s club instead.

    http://mobile.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-down-man-for-legally-carrying-firearm/

      • If they tell you to leave and you decide to stay anyway, you could be arrested for trespassing (in any state).

        The question is … why would one give their money to a store like that when there are often much more gun-friendly options available? Costco doesn’t have a lukewarm “please don’t bring ’em” like Starbucks or Target. They flat-out ban them and enforce it. Sam’s Club or BJ’s Wholesale (on the east coast) are gun-friendly.

        • That’s the case in Iowa as well (no force of law behind no firearms signs), but if someone asks you to leave you’d best comply. Might not only have trespassing but I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re hit with a trumped up weapons charge.

          After reading the article referenced above I won’t do business at Costco (not one in my town anyway) but I think I’ll avoid Las Vegas as well if the cops go around shooting innocent people and then plant evidence to whitewash the investigation with impunity. However, if he had told the Costco people that if they didn’t want his business he’d take it elsewhere and walked out he’d still be alive today.

        • If you will read what I said, I said they can tell you to leave in Florida as long as they don’t give a reason. Obviously, if you don’t leave, they will call the police and you would risk a trespass being filed. With a camera no biggie, with a pistol, it would be armed trespass. Pay attention next time.

    • Kevin brings up two different issues. The first, overlooked by everyone else, is that Costco and Sam’s are NOT governed by the same rules as any other retailer. They are CLUBS that require you to sign a CONTRACT to get in the door. Look at the contract of any such club, and actually read it. If you have any questions, ask the manager of your preferred location. If you have a gift card, read the fine print: it says you agree to the same club rules as members if you choose to walk through the door. One of these club contracts, if they wanted to, could refuse service to anyone not wearing blue shirts on the second Thursday of each month. Yes, I think refusing to admit those who are exercising their God-given and 2A rights should be prevented from exclusion on that basis alone, just as if someone was refused admission for being female or black or Hispanic. But that ain’t the law most places.

      As for the second point, it’s much more important, because a man would still very, very likely be alive if a Costco employee had simply asked the guy to leave politely without calling the police. In TN, like many places, even if carrying where a business doesn’t allow it, they must ask you to leave first before you are guilty of even trespass, as long as you are legal to carry otherwise. Even if they had the right to ask him to leave, they should have done just that, not called the cops as if they had an active shooter on the loose.

      • My understanding of Tennessee law is that if the business has a proper sign (gun buster or appropriate wording), then you have violated the law as soon as you cross the threshold. In practice so far, very few people have been charged for doing this. It appears that most places just ask you to leave, and even responding LEO’s have just told violators to leave. However, under state law, they could charge you with a crime.

      • Now I am going to dissent here slightly. Okay, I’m going to dissent a whole lot. How do you tell a person with a firearm, whose intentions you do not know, to leave? Ideally, yes, you’re right. The 2nd Amendment should allow you the benefit of the doubt, but realistically, they’re not eager to approach you for the same reason you carry to begin with. They don’t know what your intentions are and you just walked into a place with a ‘no guns’ policy. Why should they bear the risk of confronting you when there are professionals that do that for a living?

        I’m sorry, but you can’t ask them to give you the benefit of the doubt when you yourself are carrying for exactly that same reason: Because there is somebody out there somewhere who means to do their fellow man grevious harm. If one is going to have a no guns policy, calling the police was the right call. Having a no-gun policy in the first place, however, is the main point of failure.

    • In NC, the law is specific: the property owner has to post a sign to limit your carry on premises. That law does not have an exemption for “private clubs.”

      It very specifically and clearly states that the ONLY way a private property owner can limit otherwise lawful carry is via a “conspicuously posted sign at the point of entry.”

      Sorry, but no sign means their BS ‘policy’ does not conform to the LAW of the state. The only way you can LEGALLY limit my otherwise legal carry on your property is to post your intent.

    • “Scott realized he was the subject of the commands, he turned, lifting his hands, and apparently tried to follow the legal requirement to immediately inform an officer that he was an armed weapons permit holder, but he didn’t have time.”

      This is the real “HANDS UP, DON’T SHOOT!” that we should be talking about.

  5. next time you are asked tell them its a colostomy bag and if they ask to see it tell them no it is way to personal and it is non of there business and tell them they are sick if the want to see it

  6. Costco near me doesn’t post the required sign for IL so I carry on the few times I go there. I try to use Sam’s Club instead ( I don’t pay for either membership, the family business has business accounts at both) since I’ve heard that Costco’s policy is to disallow. I respect what Costco does for it’s employees, paying well and having good benefits for the type of work (from what I understand), but I also understand the founder is a big lefty and has refused to sell certain conservative books due to politics. They have definitely lost business from me for this bs.

  7. I agree that it was a mistake to ‘fess up to the door man’s suspicion. No obligation to “tell the truth” exists there.

    I would have also said it’s a medical device. If they asked to inspect, I would have declined and left. Then send a letter or email to the manager cancelling my membership.

  8. I carry in Costco all of the time. Luckily in California, any signs don’t carry the force of law. I agree, if you are printing enough for someone to tell that easily, time to rethink your method. Concealed means concealed.

  9. It funny in Arizona Walmarts most time you see people walking in them open caring there handguns on there hips people just make no fuss over matter because Walmart allows it. Has been issue I live Buckeye Arizona no issues so far with people open care there firearms in local Walmart. How ever Costco being members only store they have all,s had rules who allow in there shop try buying some thing there with out membership card see how fast make buy one or make leave if do not get one. Yes I know few times in Arizona Walmarts there been case or two people have shot firearm in Walmart when they did mean to. Those times been high lite well here. But most case nothing so far happen of late.

    • If you want to, just to have a laugh at their expense, you can get a costco gift card and shop their without a membership. Just buy a $20 card and they will let you in.

      • Nope. Costco gift cards and cash cards explicitly state that to enter you still agree to abid by all terms of membership while you are in the store. They will bring you a copy to read if you ask.

        • Yeah, I didn’t say otherwise. My comment was on how to get in without throwing away $50 on a membership.
          Why do people always read something that wasn’t there..?

  10. In Mesa, AZ, even if they had signage, it doesn’t stop you from carrying in their store. As usual, if they ask you to leave, you must. It used to be, here in AZ, that if you wanted to ban guns from your property then you had to provide immediately accessible and secure storage for firearms at the entrance. A lot has changed in the laws recently (changed for the better) so I’m not sure if that is still true.

    As for it being a term of the membership agreement… No corporation can have you sign your rights away. They can try, but it’s not breaking a law to ignore it.

    I’m all for the rights of private property owners. However, if you are going to let just ANYONE enter your private property then you shouldn’t be allowed to ban an entire group of people that aren’t breaking any laws or doing anything wrong. You want the people in your store to be defenseless, then you should perform background checks on EVERYONE that enters the store or provide an armed guard for every 100 sq/ft of the store.
    The general public is not welcome in my home so I can be selective about who is allowed. Costco can not and does not even attempt to stop criminals from entering their store so they may not stop law-abiding gun owners that are not in any way criminals.

    • Actually they very much can ask you to sign rights away for membership. They can even ban it for employees and everything. I have no clue why you think they can’t. It’s not breaking the law, but no one was arrested, so I don’t know why you bring that up, but it does preculde you from entering their private property. If you refuse to leave when asked then you are breaking the law.

      Also the do not just let anyone in, they only allow in people who agree to their terms. Just try and use your argument and take a gun on a plane or into court and let me know how that works out. Because, you know, they allow everyone in, so it must be legal according to you.

      • Maybe you haven’t read all the comments here. Plenty of people carry a gun into Costco. I have carried my gun into the same costco mentioned in this story.
        No one is talking about carrying into a courtroom. Where are you digging that up from. You aren’t signing your rights away to a corporation. The most they could do to you is file a civil suit against you and that’s not worth their time or money. I still retain my rights when I ignore their “policy” (not a law).
        Sorry if you thought you were giving me a piece of your mind. I’m not intimidated…

      • Do they do a background check on their membership application? No. So they let anyone in that has $50… real selective. Same thing with buying a gift card. Anyone that pays just a little can get in the door. You can even say you’re going to apply for a membership and then walk right past the membership desk into the store. You won’t be able to buy anything but if you had nefarious intentions then what would stop you?
        That’s close enough by any measurement to letting “anyone” in…

  11. I like all the suggestions to say that it’s a medical device. “A medical device necessary for me to live a healthy life, day to day.”

  12. FWIW, I’ve seen a guy OC in Sam’s club here in Billings, MT and not a single head turned. Other than mine, of course, and only because I was curious to see what kind of heater the old boy was carrying.

  13. Sign or no sign, policy or no policy is of no consequence to me. Out of sight…out of mind. I know what happened in Las Vegas, so I make sure my piece is concealed at Costco. End of problem. Unless they want to feel me out like a TSA agent, which isn’t about to happen, they are not finding my weapon.

  14. I hate to break it to many of you but Costco has all of this covered…

    ~ They are a membership club and if you don’t want to follow the membership rules they will refund your membership.

    ~ They always own, never rent or lease their building and property (including parking lots) so again they make the rules.

    ~ All of this applies whether the matter is CC or dogs off leash or exiting without letting them check your basket and receipt.

    ~ If you get called out for “printing” you are doing it wrong.

    ~ If you don’t know the CC rules wherever you carry you are again doing it wrong.

    ~ Stupid definitely is as stupid does. See the immediately above two lines.

    I have been to this dance with Costco on another matter and learned the rules. They have themselves covered. Forget our standard rhetoric. It is their “game”, their “ball and bat”. They win. But I still carry everytime I go in, I just do it well enough not to get flagged

    • … so basically you keep giving your hard-earned money to a company that has ho respect for your God-given rights, and then you call us stupid if we get caught.

      • @Curtis, +1000

        I’m finding this attitude of “carry in there anyway, concealed is concealed” QUITE tiresome.

  15. I conceal carry at Costco all the time in Mesa and Gilbert AZ. If I was stopped at the door I would have thanked the door guy for noticing my very impressive bulge and walked right in. What’s he going to do? they have authority to search you and the can’t make you show them.

  16. I’ve noticed a few things here. First, a close retention holster, a deep concealment holster or even a man purse would have most likely avoided the entire incident…concealed means concealed, and there are too many options out there. Second, why would you tell anybody what you’re wearing under your clothes? Third, in all cases leaving other people’s property when told to will keep you on the right side of the law. Fourth, stop patronizing those who don’t want your business and violate your civil rights in the process. Fifth, if Accostco ever filed charges for criminal trespass over something like this, a fair judge should throw it out out due to their admitted and purposeful lack of anti-carry signage.

    I’m sure there are other take-aways, but it’s late and those are the biggies in my mind.

  17. Bob said:
    How ’bout this:
    “Excuse me? That’s a health care device.” “Seriously? You’re asking me about my health care issues?”

    But what if they then say: “If that is a gun, then you must leave because we don’t allow our customers to carry guns into our store.” What then?

    How ’bout this:
    “Excuse me but are you wearing ladies pink panties?”
    “Seriously? You’re asking me about my underwear?”

    But what if they then say: “If those are ladies pink panties, then you must leave because we don’t allow our customers to wear ladies pink panties in our store.” What then?

    So Bob if you lie and say “no it isn’t a gun” / “no they aren’t pink”, have you then committed a crime? Can the police arrest you because you violated their N.L. P.P.P?

  18. Costco doesn’t want your business, than stop giving it to them. Enough people do that and they can go bankrupt under their policy.

  19. Sam’s Club asked my wife, myself and a black friend we were shopping with to leave or disarm a few years ago. All current or retired cops 2 captains and a chief, black captain was retired and told him it was fine as he was retired. But at the time both myself and wife were still working, clipped our badges and made purchase. On the way out I asked why the retired black officer was o.k. but we weren’t? Reply was quite simple; if we banned him someone would say racist but not with whites. I used the membership refund that day. Only reason even shopped there was no one else had the laser toner cartridge. Been in Costco many times only thing they ever ask is can I see the picture on the membership card. We stopped a mugger in the parking lot just a few weeks ago on the way out from buying some single malt and a case of wine.

  20. No Costco around here. Had a Sam’s club membership and never used it. Hide your gun better…or don’t shop at those a##holes.

  21. Businesses have a lot of leeway in kicking people out they don’t want there unless it’s rather obviously for the sole reason that the person is a protected class.

    “My response would have been: “What makes you think that’s a firearm? What if it’s my insulin pump? I’m going shopping now.””

    They can refuse you entry and if you try and go in you will be arrested and charged with trespass (you were warned), at which point you will be searched incident to arrest and who knows what sort of additional issues that will raise when the firearm is discovered. You could try and argue that their assumption is a violation of the ADA but I think it would be a hard sell.

    OR you could just not shop there (which is helped by articles like this so we know who is and who is not carrying water for the disarmanistas)

  22. I’ve OC’d in the Tucson, AZ Costcos for the past year without any issues or comments from anyone.

    They used to have a “no firearms” sign, but took it down about a year ago. I figured it was fair game since then.

  23. The right to keep and bear arms is a natural right. The privilege of private property is a human invention.

    No one but a homeowner should be allowed to bar carrying on their property — and they should be polite enough to not ask.

  24. Every one who shops there is spending their money on Anti gun legislation . Plenty of other brands , and deals to be had other than going to Costco. I had the same thing happen accept they called the Local P.D.

  25. Costco on 44th Street in Phoenix stopped me this week and said they have a no gun policy. I told them they did not have a sign posted and this was an open carry state. Employee babbled on about policy and I asked how that would matter when anyone can conceal carry in AZ. His supervisor came over and asked me to leave my firearm in my vehicle. I made them sit their security guard by my car to watch it while I shopped and they were very appreciative that I cooperated, but I have since cancelled my membership. Best part is, they had a Gun Safe demonstration that was taking place right inside the door at that location. I normally don’t OC, but decided to that day because I had a full size pistol with me. They have lost my business for good with that policy, even if I could CC and they would have no idea.

    • I hear ya brother. Plus I’ve seen people OC’ing at our local Costco in MN and nobody bothered them. I’m doing a shopper there later today and I’ll be bringing home a pizza for the hockey game.

  26. Might I respectfully suggest that he was not in fact “carrying concealed”? If you get made, you’re not concealed.

  27. that’s when you politely ask the manager to have the remaining portion of your membership refunded and cancelled immediately. Trust me if there was a Kroger up here it’d be one of the only stores I’d shop at.

  28. Concealed means concealed. Probably a boneheaded carrier that doesn’t care about printing. Just because a t-shirt is over it doesn’t mean I can’t tell what it is.

  29. I carry a small Camelbak backpack in the summer time when I have the top off on my Jeep. In some cases I’m not carrying on body (cue TTAG off-body carry police) and if I have my pistol it goes in the bag with some other stuff, e.g. wallet and phone if I’m wearing shorts that don’t have many pockets.

    So I walked into the front entrance of Costco this past summer wearing the bag, and they wanted to search it. I refused, and I was asked to leave unless I removed the bag. I told her I was driving a convertible with no secure storage space, so I guess I just won’t be shopping at Costco today, and I’ll take my $200 shopping list to Fred Meyer (Kroger) instead. That’s exactly what I did.

    Have you ever heard of Costco refusing to allow a woman to enter carrying a purse? The Camelbak bag is about the same size, and I fail to imagine what possible item within a Costco store would come close to fitting in this bag – maybe a jar of vitamins or toothpaste?

  30. Why is this a issue in 2014 they changed there rules of membership that firearms was prohibited. I promptly cancelled my membership and shop elsewhere. I suggest you do the same.

    • I agree with your sentiment, though I thought the policy predated 2014.

      In general, the people here calling this guy an “idiot” or “moron” for letting them “make” his firearm are themselves the fools, advocating patronizing anti-gun businesses.

  31. If you don’t like their policy, go shop somewhere else. Costco can refuse service for whatever reason. Cry about it done more though. Your years amuse me.

    Kg
    This website is getting stale. I’m not going to let the door hit me on the way out.

    • While I agree with you, I couldn’t help notice the irony that you stopped to cry about this before moving on…

  32. I live in North Dallas and twice I’ve gone to the Costco store at Park and the Toll way. Each time I’ve been challenged at the door by the greeter claiming I’m wearing a gun.

    Each time I’ve lifted my shirt and lowered my belt to show a colonoscopy bag. Each time I asked to talk to someone in charge. When he arrived I gave him a piece of my mind and left. The second time I gave him my membership card back.

  33. “I asked the management, what stops someone else with bad intentions walking in with a firearm ?… I got the same robotic response.”

    Of course you got the same robotic response– There is no logical answer to it. The only thing preventing such a thing from happening is fairy glitter and unicorn magic. Even worse, they will do nothing to assume responsibility for your safety otherwise disarmed. Think of it in contrast to building code–

    Hey, in case of fire, alarms will sound. A sprinkler system will activate to supress it. We’ve built in multiple exits for just such a contingency so you can evacuate safely. We’re mandated to have and maintain fire extiguishers everywhere. In case of an active shooter, on the other hand, run around screaming in panic as the gunman picks off your customers one by one until the police respond in five minutes or so. We’ve done nothing to prevent that sort of criminal activity beyond placing a placebo sign, hoping for the best. Besides, it’s easy and makes our customers feel better that law biding people can’t enter with their guns, and never mind the less than lawbiding one. I mean, why not handle the fire the same way? The Fire Dept will be there in a bit, right? Masses of people never get burned alive for lack of proper safety precautions, and see how well those ‘No Shoplifting’ signs work?

    I’m not one for frivelous lawsuits, but until some company gets rolled by one, corporations are going to continue to play this game of washing their hands of social responsibility with signage. And if it ever does, you’ll get to see how much they actually care about this social propaganda. They’ll either pony up for costly security or more than likely take the cheaper, easier way out by removing the signs. Along the way we’ll have to endure the left trying to spin this as a case for disarmament, ignoring the fact that their arguments are strikingly similar to the effectiveness of a no guns sign.

    I shop Sam’s.

  34. I wonder whether we PotG ought to PROMOTE CostCo’s policy. (Kindly hear me out). Seems to me that there are 4 possible policies for a retail store to take:
    1 – erect “No Guns” signs;
    2 – quietly adopt a no-guns policy but be as inconspicuous as possible;
    3 – do nothing whatsoever;
    4 – erect “Guns are Welcome Here” signs

    We could mount a campaign for #4; but, it probably would get nowhere with large prominent chains. Likewise, we could mount a campaign for #3; but all that would do is draw attention from the Moms to the large prominent chains that we target.

    Suppose, instead, we cozy up to the executives of large prominent chains and tell them to do what CostCo/Starbucks do. If they are a membership organization then include a clause in their membership agreement. If they are NOT a membership organization, advise them to do something like Starbucks does; i.e., announce a preference that customers not carry. Just don’t be very aggressive about surveilling for “printing”. In either case, we PotG won’t call attention to them and they can point to their policy when the Moms try to attack them. If we don’t make an issue of it the Moms can’t get much traction by complaining about their policy; so, eventually, they will re-target to chains like Krogers where the management stands up to them.

    To the extent that the Moms quickly tire of going after CostCo and Starbucks we can continue to CC in such establishments and make no secret of that fact on our boards, among our friends, etc. Should drive the Antis nuts because we deny them access to these fields of battle. How can they fight if no one is willing to confront them?

    CostCo and Starbucks can take the position (vis a vis the Moms) that they have done what they can. They don’t want to annoy customers by asking them about the bulges in their pockets or under their kilts on the dominant-hand side. What can the Moms say in response? ‘You have to subject your customers to a pat down?’ Any such demand by the Moms will only seem to be over-reaching by the uncommitted public.

    We could rise “up-in-arms” and push large national chains to take our side in the debate. That will just encourage the Moms to continue to target such chains. What will the chains do? They might feel compelled to choose. If they were likely to tip our way then they would have done so at their own initiative. If we PotG voice our intentions to boycott them they will have to consider whether they will piss off more customers by backing one side or the other. They might very well conclude that they would rather piss us off vs. the Moms; and, thereupon, erect “No Guns” signs.

    Do we think our boycott is going to have a prompt effect that favors gun rights? Had we already won the PC debate, then we wouldn’t be having this fight to begin with. If the stores erect “No Guns” signs we will have publicly scored a win for the Moms.

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