Open Carry Starbucks (courtesy csmonitor.com)

Open carry is one step closer to reality for those in the Lone Star State. Late this evening the Senate passed SB17, a bill which would allow people to openly carry a loaded firearm either in a shoulder or belt holster. Opponents of the bill tried to make the legislation into a veritable Christmas tree by trying to hang amendments on it wherever they could, from an amendment delaying its implementation until 2016 to one that would drastically alter the size and shape of the 30.06 / 30.07 “No Guns” signs. However, it looks like only two amendments passed, one of which includes retention training in the required training course for handgun licenses in Texas.

The bill will now be forwarded to the Texas House of Representatives, where it is also expected to pass without much ado. The next hearing is scheduled for tomorrow morning, March 17th at 8 AM in front of the House Homeland Security and Public Safety Committee in room E2.014 at the Texas Capitol. When it passes out of that committee (note: when, not if) it will go before the full House for a vote where the votes are expected to pretty much break down on party lines. Thankfully the House is comprised of 98 Republicans and 52 Democrats, so that shouldn’t be an issue.

If all goes well, we should have open carry by the end of the year here in Texas. Get your barbeque guns ready!

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148 Responses to BREAKING: Texas Senate Passes Open Carry Bill

      • I don’t know if 30.06 will be construed as only applying to concealed carry.

        I understand there will be a 30.07 sign to apply only to open carry, so it seems reasonable there ought to be a “no concealed carry, only open carry” sign of some sort. Except that OC is considered more “out there” by some, so they’d not understand why you’d want a sign that forbids the less “out there” open but not the more “out there” option.

        Which just demonstrates this whole thing is the result of a compromise with people who are either hoplophobes or hoplo-kinda-uneasy-around-ems.

    • I won’t either, but I will start using an OWB holster, safe in the knowledge that I won’t be strung up if I lift my arm and my holster shows. It’s going to be so comfortable…

    • Not making any judgements here. I just wanted to offer a perspective. OC or CCW isn’t a black and white, all or nothing concept.
      When police want to reduce crime in an area they increase their presence. They make it known they are there. To me, that is the greatest benefit of OC. Consequently, I OC in my own neighborhood and in the places I frequent the most. I make sure anyone and everyone knows that if they want to cause trouble in my neighborhood then there’s at least one person ready to deal with them. Hopefully that has the desired effect of herd immunity in which a relatively small number of armed people can reduce the risk of crime for everyone else.
      Outside of my own area, I CC for the obvious benefits.

      • Just being the devils advocate here……
        If you live in an environment where you feel that people seeing you armed somehow deters trouble, you are also probably living in an environment where thieves now will know which house to rob when they are looking for a handgun.

        • True, but all houses potentially contain something a thief wants. That’s why I also have a security system with cameras and 3 rottweilers. And I have signs posted letting everyone know I have those too. So a potential thief now has to consider a) someone armed might be home, b) the police may respond faster than the expect, c) they may be eaten.
          The concept of herd immunity could/should benefit everyone to a degree. Look at countries where gun control is strengthened and you see an increase in crime and the brazen nature of the crimes. It’s the same thing in reverse.

  1. I’ll be open carrying my Smith & Wesson 686 the day it becomes legal. ‘Cause that looks like a gun.

    • a gun to kill things to BBQ? or a gun that, when fired produces BBQ targets? I know a Mosin carbine will produce acceptable muzzle flame to make anything in front of the muzzle scorched, not sure if that will suit your purpose?

      • BBQ gun= a gun to show off at a BBQ. This is usually a stainless 1911, a nice revolver, or some other nice firearm. Inside of a nice holster.

        I have a cheap hi-power clone on order, it will wear custom duracoat with fancy wood grips and a nice leather holster. I live in MI open carry is legal anyways. I usually carry owb and concealed with a light jacket, or pocket but that may change as weather warms and where my destination is.

      • I’ll know that the country has made real progress when owning a fancy “court gun” is a regular thing. They will be sold in clothing stores next to the suits. No background check for either.

        • Yes, and no.

          I’d hate to have to buy a gun I don’t want (and there are many guns I don’t want) because it’s in style this year. We already have to deal with people designing ugly eyeglasses and then pushing them by making sure those are the only ones the optometrist has for sale. I don’t want those dickheads in charge of what gun is fashionable this year.

  2. By “end of the week” you mean probably September, as that’s typically when new laws in Texas take effect.

    Still wonder what will happen to those of us that already have our CHLs… will we have to go back through to learn ”retention”?

    • Senator Estes amended his own bill so that it will take effect Jan 1, 2016. The DPS asked for the extra time. One of the amendments added some sort of holster training to the CHL class. It’s unclear to me if existing CHL holders will be exempt from this requirement.

      • That would be pretty funny, wouldn’t it? All this fighting for open carry, just to have everyone’s CHL’s become invalidated come January 1st due to it not meeting the curriculum requirements. Freaking BS. DPS has had 3 years now to learn not to arrest open carriers. What makes you think they’ll learn in 3 extra months?

    • Id like the choice too here. But I wouldn’t count on it……
      As the state grows we are just getting more transplanted North Easterners and their s#ity ways here in the South East part of the state.

      • Speaking as a Florida native, you’ve had that for years. The ironic thing is, I moved to Pennsyltucky and pretty much got away from it!

    • We’re probably getting campus carry this year.

      Small steps. I hope for licensed open carry in the next few years.

        • They likely have the same problem Texas does with entrenched old guard republicans (along with psycho liberal pockets) who refuse to represent the increasingly libertarian leaning conservative constituency.

  3. We’ve had open carry for quite some time here in Washington State, but rarely do you see folks
    doing so. Mostly due to dorks who voted YES on I-594, a debacle of truly epic proportions.

    I imagine you’ll see a lot more, especially early on, in the Great State of Texas.

    Would have liked it years ago when I was stationed there, but enjoy the coming weekend, Y’all!

    • I’d expect the carrying public’s reaction will be somewhat similar to people’s reaction in 1990 on the very first day Texas got the lottery. People were so excited, they were driving from store to store buying tickets, as though winners were strategically dispersed throughout the market. Within a few weeks, it had become just another thing out there and nothing special.

      Just for the novelty, people with no intention of OC’ing on a regular basis probably will do so in the beginning. I, myself, probably will OC somewhat regularly; on the weekends, anyway. I tend to bum around on the weekends in longish t-shirts and jeans, so it’d be covered mostly, anyway. I would just prefer the comfort and quicker access of outside the waistband carry.

  4. If I have to go back and do a class for open carry I will. It will also greatly simply options for my wife too, because she no longer has to try to conceal a weapon instead of wearing it openly on her belt. And if it passes, I promise to take a pair of pink shoes to the range, and put a few holes in each as a symbolic rebuke to liars and hypocrites.

  5. Just so long as Wendy Davis doesn’t kill it.

    Wait, I just remembered that she lost both the gubernatorial election and her state senate seat.

    God bless Texas!

  6. Oh my Gawd!!!!
    This means potential mass murdering CHL holders with scary looking guns will be scaring liberal Moms Who Demand Action!
    OMG!
    Plus, they might spontaneously combust! The guns, not the CHL holders!

    • I take it you didn’t watch the testimony… these type of things were said. I kid you not, one Senator used as his argument that the Sheriffs of old Hollywood movies used to make everyone entering town turn in their guns, so why shouldn’t we? Yes, he was invoking a hollywood film as if it was actually policy.

      Another Senator argued vociferously that the State Capitol must (MUST) be excluded from open carrying, because…well, because there are children here all the time, on school trips and such, and … well, there’s emotionally disturbed constituents out there who come to his office and rant and rave all the time, so what happens when one of those deranged constituents grabs an open-carrier’s firearm and starts shooting children?

      The amendments offered were all over the place. They included requiring annual background checks, closing the “gun show loophole”, allowing cities and municipalities to “opt out”, or even requiring municipalities to “opt in”. There were around six hours of debate.

      And in the end, every amendment (except a couple as mentioned above) were defeated by a 20-11 vote which, IINM, was basically along party lines, and the bill passed along party lines.

      • Whitmire, Watson, West and Ellis were in typical form, as were Lucio and Rodriguez. A least Zaffirini knew if she would compromise she would get some traction. Everyone else was playing for the MDA vote.

        Estes answer to the Gun Show Loophole nonsense was great…”Not germane to this bill…”

        • A better answer would be , “There is no such thing as a gun show loophole. “

        • The most surprising answer was when he was being asked about “what will I tell my senior citizens, who will be scared every time they see a gun? What do I tell them?”

          Estes said (paraphrased) “well, tell them that if they’ve got a phobia, they should seek treatment for it.”

        • What would I tell the senior citizens? I’d tell them that it took us a while, but we’re finally returning to the People some of the freedoms that they, the Greatest Generation, fought so valiantly to preserve for us back in WWII.

        • @STB410: Now THAT’S a good answer! LOL! But the question is kind of stupid, I expect most Texan “seniors” are well aware of what a gun looks like in private hands.

        • Most of the people I’ve spoken about this with that are planning to open carry *are* senior citizens.

        • @The most surprising answer was when he was being asked about “what will I tell my senior citizens, who will be scared every time they see a gun? What do I tell them?”

          Look ’em in the eye and say:

          “This is an excellent opportunity for you to work on your coping skills.”

          And smile.

    • “This means potential mass murdering CHL holders with scary looking guns will be scaring liberal Moms Who Demand Action!
      OMG!
      Plus, they might spontaneously combust! The guns, not the CHL holders!”

      Am I an evil person if I hope it’s the scary liberal Moms Who Demand Action! that self combust?

      • Shannon is more frigid than an Eskimo woman at night in the artic circle. this will be fun to watch

        • Hm.

          Not sure, Dirk. If I was stuck in an igloo in a blizzard I’d be inclined to do something to generate a little body heat…

          Then again, if I was stuck in an igloo with Shannon I’d seriously consider suicide.

  7. Congrats, Texas! Your masters give you permission to open carry IF you jump through all their hoops and pay their fees!!! It’s almost like a right except without all that pesky liberty!

    • Candidates for Texas House and Senate said they would vote yes on an open carry bill and the Governor has said he will sign it. When was the last time your State politicians did what they said they would do?

      • Well, sticking with the 2nd amendment theme.. when they passed constitutional concealed carry even though we already had licensed concealed carry and open-carry for anyone within our state borders.
        Any more questions?

        • Arizona. No, we’re not perfect but we’re miles ahead of Texas and getting better all the time. I moved here from Texas 15 years ago this month. Bring your family and come on over. We’d love to have you.

        • So what I hear you really saying is: “We wouldn’t have Constitutional carry today if we didn’t first have permitted open carry like Texas is about to get.”

        • No, you didn’t hear that. Open carry was never licensed here.
          Licensed CCW may have been a stepping stone for Constitutional CCW but here we are, an example for the rest of the country and people are still using the wild-west / streets-filled-with-blood BS arguments and you’re being forced to accept half-measures because of it.

          You’re taking a defensive posture here because I’m pooping on your parade but it’s the people of Texas I feel sorry for. You got thrown a scrap but you’re still not welcom at the table.

        • @Mike: I appreciate the invite, I expect I would like it there. But I’m just too much of a native Texan I guess. Right now I am availing myself of the rather generous exceptions to the prohibitions on carrying a handgun. I carry in my truck (legal), I carry from my truck to my shop (legal), I carry in my shop (legal), back to my truck, and back home. That covers about 90% or more of my daily activities. I admit, more like 100% would be better…

        • Ok, you’re right, Texas sucks, I can’t believe I’m still here. The worst place for gun rights in order NJ, NY, CA then TX. I don’t know why we even bothered.

        • ” pooping on your parade” was constructive as well. Keep on shyting on Texas if it makes you feel better. I don’t know what else you would call it: “masters, permission, hoops, pesky liberty”

          Enjoy Arizona, be the beacon of liberty and show us the way.

        • I was being sarcastic but at least I was making a point. Enjoy your little butthurt parade.
          I put in 23 years in TX and was the victim of 7 crimes. I’ll say whatever I want about it and I certainly don’t require your permission.

    • Well, I guess undoing–at least to some extent–well over a hundred years of an unconstitutional law counts for something. But I’m kind of like you, I’m pretty underwhelmed by the permit requirement. I may take to carrying my SxS 12 ga…

      • Good call. I would suggest that you Texans not stop OCing long guns. Keep pushing until you are able to exercise the right to carry handguns openly. Still, don’t ever give up the exercise of the right to carry long guns too. With this bone from the State, you might find that your support for the right to OC will be even more fragmented. I truly wish the good people of Texas the best of luck in this fight.

        • Just tossing an idea out there…assuming this passes. For a demonstration, carry signs saying “In ___ we wouldn’t need a permit just to do this!” (Fill in the blank with some state Texans (mistakenly) think they are much better than, which would just about any of them) whilst engaging in permitted pistol carry. Mixing with rifles of course wouldn’t be a bad thing in principle but it might be a bad idea here because it would distract from the main message. (Since people will see the rifles before or even instead of the handguns, because they’re bigger, and then wonder “WTF is he talking about? You can carry a rifle without a permit!”)

          If you do want a mixed rifles/pistols event, the signs probably ought to say something different.

        • We do both at the same time but don’t carry concealed while doing it. The thinking is that if we are exercising a licensed privilege at the same time then that gives officers more authority to interfere. Without carrying anything that requires a license, we have been able to stick to the “Am I being detained?”, “Am I free to go?” script. Eventually, they just left us alone or risked getting sued. With the coming Texas situation, licensed OCed handguns give them some reason (at least in their minds) to mess with y’all. I would probably stick to long guns only if it were me.

    • Exactly what I was thinking.

      A retention holster class? Are you kidding me?

      I guess every step forward is a step know matter how small. I just don’t see this a huge win for the 2A.

      A lot of good people put a lot of time and effort into getting OC in Texas. I am not trying to take anything away from these people. I just hope the next step forward will be much more than a baby step.

  8. Minor correction — the amendment to delay it to 2016 was passed. Instead of the bill becoming law and taking effect September 1 2015, it will instead take effect in January 2016.

    The date change that was rejected was when a senator tried to amend it to not take effect until January 2020.

    • Oh, hell, that’s just petty. 4 months? What’s the justification for that? Just because they can?

      • It was requested by the Texas Department of Public Safety; apparently they needed more time to revise the CHL classes and the 30.06 and create the new 30.07 signs and do whatever else they need to do to be ready for the implementation date. The bill’s author was fine with it.

  9. I hate that the retention training amendment passed. Who makes the curriculum? How many hours? Do I have to go take a separate class if I already have a chl? Cost? If the dps makes the course, I expect it to be long and cumbersome, since they supported this bill so much…

    • The retention training amendment should be painless. Several amendments attempting to increase the training requirements failed. Estes’ allowing of Zaffirini’s retention amendment was a good faith gesture towards one of the only Dems who bothered to contact him ahead of time with proposed amendments. They had the most cordial interaction he faced throughout the debate, even when he shot down her other amendments. I don’t think it will add any time to classroom requirements. If it does it will be minimal.

    • What is retention training? They teach you how to shout, in a deep and authoritative voice, “Get yer hands off’n my gol dang gun or I’ll shoot you agin!”

  10. I’m surprised TTAG doesn’t have a post up about the Huey P. Newton gun club protest at the capitol in Austin today.

    • I’m almost wondering if the Huey Newton/Black Panther Redux march wasn’t staged by a couple of Senators from Dallas and Houston (D) to scare folks into voting against OC.

      • Probably Shannon’s idea. . . . she does pull some crazy stunts, and we all know how she hates those of us with a little extra pigmentation

        • I’m not one to deny a group the opportunity to peacefully express themselves. But, I’m also not a big believer in coincidences, particularly when it comes to politics, and the timing was very coincidental.

      • No, they are not trying to do any such thing. I would appreciate if you would stop casting aspersions without proof upon other groups bearing arms. Didn’t you infer in other comments that you were a public official, at least at one time? If so, then you have blood on your hands. Please don’t project that onto other gun owners. Thanks.

        • Again your accusations are off the mark. I please show me where I was speaking of infringing upon anyone’s right of expression. I merely pointed out a coincidence.

          Your complete ignorance of the local politics and your continued personal insults truly display your character, and quite frankly lack thereof.

          FLAME DELETED

        • please show me where I was speaking of infringing upon anyone’s right of expression.

          Uh, I didn’t. Read my comment again and you will see who is off the mark. It isn’t me. 😉

          I merely pointed out a coincidence.

          You “wondered” if the Huey P. Newton march was “staged” to sandbag OC. That isn’t pointing out a coincidence. That’s inferring something. I hope you weren’t this dishonest while holding office.

          Your comment: I’m almost wondering if the Huey Newton/Black Panther Redux march wasn’t staged by a couple of Senators from Dallas and Houston (D) to scare folks into voting against OC.

    • All the OC nay sayers will just tout it was in spite of OCT. Because if you’re wrong, you’re wrong, but if you’re right, you’re also wrong.

    • To be sure, OCTC and Kory Watkins (not OCT, which condemned OCTC’s antics) and the guys who were a bit…forceful…in that one legislator’s office, have all been getting some blame for ensuring that permitless open carry wouldn’t pass. Of course it’s impossible to know what would have happened without those factors, but IF TRUE, it would mean some idiots have managed to hurt the cause, even if they didn’t kill it.

      In other words, don’t assume that just because this did actually pass, there weren’t some bad moves made.

      Regardless, I do credit what is happening to the vast majority of OC demonstrators who behaved as responsible adults.

      • but IF TRUE, it would mean some idiots have managed to hurt the cause, even if they didn’t kill it.

        Yeah, they’re called your public servants. I really don’t get how people expect to control other everyday citizens in this behavior when they can’t really control their public servants. You tell people to do A,B, and C but not to do X, Y, and Z. Some will and some won’t obey you. What then? People continue to blame the people for the decisions of their politicians. It’s not productive. Your government is infringing upon your right, not the people you perceive as “Ninjas”. When your politicians use those people as the excuse, forcefully tell your politicians that there are stupid people everywhere and that’s not going away… stop distracting from the issue; you are violating my right to bear arms, now correct it!

        I’ve got news for everyone who talks about this imaginary “ambassadorship”… People will do things that other people don’t like. It’s going to happen before unlicensed open carry and it’s going to happen after. The argument isn’t if people will do unpopular things while open carrying. The argument is that the unlicensed bearing of arms is a right. Some might also argue that unlicensed open carrying does not significantly increase crime. Those are the points. The rest of this is a distraction that gives government a convenient excuse.

        Is anyone not understanding that by now? People will do things that other people don’t like. It has been this way since the beginning of civilization and will continue until the end of it. Begging mommy government for permission to exercise such a basic right as the unlicensed bearing of a handgun is a failed mission. You must demand your rights from your government. Begging will only open the door to scapegoating.

  11. Tomorrow the campus carry bill will go to the senate floor. I expect similar results.

    Really hoping these sail right through the house. We’ve been trying to get campus carry for years now. I’ll buy all y’all a round if/when these pass to the governor’s desk.

  12. Is this another one of those “own goals” the OC-hating faction of the POTG keeps complaining about? Oh, it isn’t? Huh. How about that?

    I get so confused, as I’m just not that familiar with the soccer terminology, you see.

  13. I have been anxiously refreshing the page for SB 17 today when I started seeing all these amendments going in and out.

    But the text of the amendments is not shown on the site, much less their description. Where did TTAG get this info from? I’d like to know if there is something additional I now need to do in order to OC my gun come September 1st.

    • Well, if you want to OC a gun on September 1st, you’ll need to move to a different state. Texas’ law would go into effect sometime in January 2016.

      There were a ton of amendments offered, nearly every one of them was tabled. The only ones that were approved, that I can think of, were the change in the effective date, a change in the CHL instruction to include discussion of retention holsters, and language added to expressly say that this bill does not allow open carrying on campuses. They specifically wanted to separate this bill from the next one they’ll debate, which is campus carry.

      However, this is just the senate. The house may or may not add their own amendments.

    • OC and CC go to the House committee tomorrow. Chair Phillips is the author of the OC bill. It will be a party line vote after alot of sky is falling from the vice chair, Pancho “panic button” Nevarez, it will go to floor vote. Once on the floor, the obstacle is not the Dems, but Speaker Straus. Expect some nastiness between him and the conservatives. Strickland or one of the other conservative freshmen will attempt to amend OC to Constitutional Carry. It may get a little ugly before the floor vote.

  14. This Oklahoma resident laughs. “Retention training”. Sheesh. OC since 2012, only a valid CCW required. No problems here.

    But congrats all the same.

    • This Arizona resident laughs. Permitless OC or CCW only have to be within our state borders. No problems here.

      No offense intended. I just couldn’t resist.

    • Well, yeah, except they would be arrested. But substitute long guns and an outdoors venue and it would look nice.

    • That is not how an open carry protest should look.

      It’s what daily life should look like. Carry should be ubiquitous.

      • I thought about this some more, and it’s possible that Puyallup is trying to say demonstrators should be dressed “professionally.” I’ll stand by what I wrote, though, and even note as a point of clarification: Professionals should be able to return to their offices without having to deal with stupid “no guns” policies pushed on them by “corporate.”

        As the season turns and the light jacket goes away for the summer, it’s soon going to be OC season for me. (Same rig, just no outer layer of clothing over it.)

  15. That’s ok, next session get rid of the permit and the signage law and join the rest of the country.

    • That’s my only source of optimism. If people do OC and blood doesn’t flow in the streets, maybe we can make some more progress. It is still damned annoying tho, like being treated as less of a person than a Vermonter or some other truly free-stater.

  16. Too bad you still need a permit, but at least there will be OC in Texas. Keep pushing to remove the permit in the future!

  17. Let me see if I understand this.
    We didn’t get Campus carry.
    We didn’t get constitutional carry.
    We didn’t get a Made-in-Texas NFA work-around.

    But we got open carry… for CHL holders.

    For all the hype that this session started and all the pats on the backs that are being passed around I am unimpressed. I know, I know, “A step in right direction, blah blah, more carry options, *mumble mumble*, desensitize the normals *rable rable*. It still needs to make it through the house and it may just make it through a-okay but I am a nervous that more ammendments will be added on. I just hope that OC isn’t going to end up making getting a CHL more of a bother.

    • Well, Campus Carry hasn’t even been debated yet. That’s the next bill to be debated.

      As for Constitutional Carry, whether folks like it or not, you can thank the Chipotle Ninjas and OCTC and others for dousing enthusiasm for that. The only form of OC that is going through this session is one that is tied to the existing CHL program, because — as even the most fervent detractors of OC were willing to testify today — the Texas CHL program has worked fine and there are no criminal issues. Time and again the senators who were most concerned and most antagonistic to the concept of open carry, admitted that the CHL holders have been an overwhelmingly law-abiding group. Even Chief Acevedo admitted that in his testimony. But after the Chipotle Ninjas and Kory’s threats and all that, frankly, once the “panic buttons” went in, support for constitutional carry disappeared. The existing bill probably only got through specifically because it was limited to the proven, vetted CHL group. If you want to see Texas expanding its gun rights to all the Chipotle Ninjas and Kory Watkins too, well, it’s just my opinion (see more below) but I think that’s going to be a much, much tougher fight.

      I’ll say something else, after having sat through the testimony today — the legislators in support of expanding Texans’ 2A rights had better get their act together. The senators opposed to the bill ate them up and spit them out — they were more coherent, more focused, had facts and figures and studies at their fingertips. It left Estes looking, frankly, bewildered most of the time. Now, this looks like it was a party-line vote, and so it probably didn’t matter one jot nor tittle what either side said, it looks like people’s minds were made up from the beginning, and (IMO) that’s the primary reason why the bill passed. Because if someone had gone in there with a truly open mind and no preconceived notions, I would have to say they could very likely have been swayed by the anti’s arguments. They were just better prepared and presented better.

      As far as I can tell, the 2A side thought this was going to be a “slam dunk”, so they didn’t really bother to properly prepare. And that may work, this time — heck, it turns out that at least in the senate, it actually WAS a slam dunk. But the other side fought bitterly, emotionally, and nastily, tooth and nail, hook and claw. And that was for the most mild of expansions of 2A rights! If you want to see real progress towards something like Constitutional Carry, your elected representatives are going to have to do a MUCH better job next time.

      • A good analysis. Thank you.

        (I’ll point out that the “Chipotle Ninjas” probably weren’t doing anything wrong, but got suckered into looking that way for one brief photo and MDA exploited it–a cautionary tale for future demonstrators to do their damnedest to never relax and do something that looks silly. I’ll leave aside the legislative office incident, since I know less about it, but what I do know ain’t good.)

        We’re in a Long War here. People fighting in it should consider how much their actions contribute to winning not just the battle they are in right now, but winning the whole darn thing. If you’re doing something that’s actually counterproductive, please stop, even if you have a right to do it (yeah, I understand you have a right to do it).

      • ” If you want to see real progress towards something like Constitutional Carry, your elected representatives are going to have to do a MUCH better job next time”
        No kidding! Watched live steam, Estes was just so flat footed the whole time. I guess he didn’t catch the article where one of the law enforcement agency has recommended level
        2 holsters at minimum. Caved on extending to January 2016, in order formulate the inclusion of weapon retention. Could have countered with grandfathering existing CHL holders in lieu of accepting one size fits all!. Estes showed up for a gun fight with a knife,
        just fortunate to have the majority

  18. As a retired police officer, I “open carried” for about 20 years.

    I recall one incident where a middle aged man on a “freak-out” pulled my pistol from my holster, stuck it in my stomach and pulled the trigger.

    My great concern for those who will be open carrying is to be aware of the weapon and all about the weapon at all times. One has to come to grips with the fact that the means of one’s own destruction is located on one’s hip.

    Please be ever vigilant…….and ever cautious.

    • Your words are wise but I would like to point out that this hasn’t really been a problem in Ohio and we’ve had OC since around 1851 (or perhaps before). My friends and I have never had someone stupid enough to try to grab our openly carried sidearms. However, we do often carry BUGs should such a situation arise. If it was going to be a regular problem then Ohio and other open carry states would’ve already seen it.

    • I agree with everything you said but I’m curious. As John in Ohio says, that doesn’t really seem to be a regular occurrence in my state or his. Definitely not an excuse to become complacent though. I’m assuming you were in uniform when this happened? If so, you weren’t just an armed individual. You were wearing a target on your chest and clothing that easily identified you as a target of a lot of misplaced hostility.

    • When I started OC’ing seven years ago here in NM, (no permit required) I went to Level 2 retention holster and instead of my Glock 30, I went to 1911 with the decock needed to make the gun useable, just in case.

      But OC has been the norm for most of our countries history. It was CC that was looked at as being dishonorable, that only a criminal would conceal a weapon.

      What is so frustrating is that we have hundreds of years of OC experience in multiple states without a problem and STILL people can’t accept that OC’ing a weapon won’t be a problem in their particular state.

      People are so provincial. No matter how “educated” they may be.

    • He pulled the trigger? I imagine the gun had a safety and he forgot/was too strung out to unsafe it, or you wouldn’t be here to recall the incident.

      I’ve actually seen guns with safeties advertised, touting that very scenario as a reason to buy their weapons.

    • i agree with the police officer above. If you carry openly, be very aware, because it only takes a split second for someone to pull it from your holster.

      Also my comment to the senator who asked what he would tell his senior citizens woudl be. Ask ME how I feel. I ama 70 year old woman with a CHL and believe you me, I carry. What he said was so damned condescending and down right stupid. We’re not a bunch of babies. He doesn’t know much and I’ve probably forgotten more than he has ever had in that mushy head of his.

  19. At long last! Now we can duel in the streets with our Colt Revolving Belt Pistols again! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    • I was planning to bring out a Gatling gun, but I dunno… a revolving belt… sounds pretty high tech.

      ( 🙂 )

  20. So, if they pass the bill that requires retention training… Does TX have a “substantially similar” clause in their reciprocity law ? If so, this could put every reciprocity agreement in jeopardy…

  21. >>open carry large unloaded gun in cheap non-retention holster
    >>conceal loaded pocket pistol
    >>bad guy steals the open carry gun
    >>pull out your concealed piece and shoot them while they’re fidgeting with your unloaded open carry piece
    >>everyone wins
    >>well, except for the bad guy

  22. I rarely plan to OC but there’s a few situations where I can see it (mostly out in the boonies).

    Time for a revolver and a nice holster for it.

  23. I don’t see what all the fuss is about, honestly. Permitted OC of handguns… Beg for permission to carry a borderline useless gun when you already have the permitted RIGHT to carry a real, useful gun…

    I’m stuck in Floriduh, but right on the border to GA. I’d much rather Sling my RFB than Serpa my 1911…

  24. I have read almost every post from this article and have one question. it appears no one look at this from a law enforcement standpoint. I’m a 20-year police officer in Texas, who supports gun rights but for a policeman this is a very dangerous situation. activists say we should just trust everybody that has a gun strapped to their hip but how do you distinguish a law abiding citizen from a criminal upon first sight ?most of you are not thinking of it that way and the majority of people who want this bill passed are not the same level headed people as some of you are.the majority of officers are prior military ,hunters, and gun lovers but I haven’t heard one policeman say they are excited about this bill being passed from a job standpoint. anyone with a gun strapped to their hip or anyone carrying a gun around openly in public is a threat to my life and we as policemen have a duty first to protect the public and our selves I am going home to my family at the end of the day and all I can say is if this bill is passed in and an officer orders you to do something you better follow that order to the letter. my reading a lot of these posts it’s obvious that some people just think it will be cool to be able to walk around with a gun in public they are not even really concerned about their safety and those are the people that we all should be worried about. and remember just like concealed carry there are laws that make it unlawful to carry the weapon in certain situations and people do go to jail for you UCW with concealed handgun licenses all the time.

    • Um, everyone is innocent until proven guilty..? The public has conditioned itself to not trust police since they can lie to you about anything. Do I smell weed? Lol..
      How did they do it here in Arizona and numerous other states that have been open carry for decades? Never seemed to be an issue here… Our citizens don’t execute cops and our cops don’t kill citizens on a daily basis.
      How have you dealt with the possibility that everyone you met was a licensed concealed carrier for the past 20yrs?
      Citizens will be walking around each other armed and aren’t going to be breaking into gunfights, at least, they don’t here in AZ or other OC states… Trust me, we place the same importance on getting home alive.
      Perhaps, and this isn’t to be rude, you should move somewhere else. You seem a bit too nervous. You’re going to have to get used to free citizens.

    • …but how do you distinguish a law abiding citizen from a criminal upon first sight ?

      Simple. The law-abiding citizen is the one openly carrying a bandgun. Criminals don’t carry openly; they conceal.

      …anyone with a gun strapped to their hip or anyone carrying a gun around openly in public is a threat to my life…

      You’re so full of bovine excrement. That arbitrary person is demonstrably and statistically more law-abiding than you and your fellow LEO are.

      …I am going home to my family at the end of the day and all I can say is if this bill is passed in and an officer orders you to do something you better follow that order to the letter.

      …or what?

      How very tyrannical of you. Guess what: law-abiding citizens conducting their affairs lawfully can tell you to go oound sand. Without reasonable, articulable suspicion of unlawful activity, you have no legal authority to tell anyone to do anything.

      You are psychologically unfit to carry a badge or a gun.

      • Vhip, Your rhetoric is that of a jail house lawyer. Alot of big words that dont really complete much of a thought.And where do you draw you first hand law enforcement experience from? Your military experience from?…Worlds wildest police chases and saving private Ryan?? You are the angry, some what unstable sounding voice that I’m sure open carry activists don’t want speaking for them. Hey,I open carry every day I work. Every other day I conceal carry. Why alarm nervous citizens and draw attention to myself. If I need a weapon I have one. Carrying a gun doesn’t make you a bad azz. That’s seems to be what you,chip,wants..attention and a feeling of self importance..you won’t get that from carrying a wheel gun..oh and peep this..a person carrying a gun that alarms the public,who then in turn calls police,is all the p.c. needed to investigate..inform yourself and don’t throw up other people’s words and ideas..

        • Someone that thinks open carry is about being a badass. I’ve seen those people on the MDA page. Badass, penis-compensators, etc…
          You’re right. Most people don’t know what it’s like to be above the law and a higher class than the average citizen. Maybe that’s why we’ll be able to deal with this better than you….

        • Your rhetoric is that of a jail house lawyer. Alot of big words that dont really complete much of a thought.

          You make this statement yet:
          1) You seem incapable of using proper punctuation and capitalization. (minor and I wasn’t even going to mention it until you made this statement)
          2) You make statements about open carry yet act oblivious to experiences in open carry states that totally blow your BS out of the water. (major)

          You might be surprised at how many of us “jailhouse lawyers” eat dense statist officers’ lunches all of the time. I know of one Ohio paralegal that law enforcement won’t touch with a ten foot pole. 😉 Besides, we all know that “jailhouse lawyer” is just cop sour grapes for “individual that knows more about the law”.

        • oh and peep this..a person carrying a gun that alarms the public,who then in turn calls police,is all the p.c. needed to investigate..

          I don’t know about Texas but in Ohio it doesn’t. If they don’t have some reasonable articulable suspicion that an actual crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed; we don’t even have to give our names. We can keep walking and some of us do just that.

          inform yourself and don’t throw up other people’s words and ideas..

          You put forth a bunch of false information here and then tell others to be informed?!?! ROTFLMFAO!

        • I don’t open carry. Thanks for playing.

          I don’t need to rely on jailhouse lawyer legalese to support anything I said, nor do I find your logical fallacy appeal to authority any more compelling than your open carry false premise.

          As for a law-abiding person openly carrying a firearm where it is lawful to do so: the courts disagree with you. A lawful activity conducted in a lawful manner does not constitute reasonable suspicion, much less probable cause, of unlawful activity. (Perhaps read US v Black, anong others.)

          Of the two of us, the angry one resorting to spouting rhetoric is obvious.

          The problem I have with police officers like you is your apparent inability or unwillingness to distinguish between criminals and law-abiding citizens merely exercising a constitutionality protected, natural right.

    • who supports gun rights but for a policeman this is a very dangerous situation. activists say we should just trust everybody that has a gun strapped to their hip but how do you distinguish a law abiding citizen from a criminal upon first sight ?

      You do know that Texas is late to the OC game, right? Open carry has been perfectly legal in Ohio since before 1851. This fear is unfounded. Besides, the right of the individual trumps any privilege you might claim as an agent of government.

      most of you are not thinking of it that way and the majority of people who want this bill passed are not the same level headed people as some of you are.the majority of officers are prior military ,hunters, and gun lovers but I haven’t heard one policeman say they are excited about this bill being passed from a job standpoint. anyone with a gun strapped to their hip or anyone carrying a gun around openly in public is a threat to my life

      There’s an appeal to false authority in there. None of it assures competency with a defensively carried handgun in everyday life.

      If you really believe that anyone openly armed is a threat to your life then it is time to change careers. The right to bear arms is an individual one that supposedly shall not be infringed. Your problem isn’t with a new law, it is with the supreme law of the land and with a basic natural right. Your safety as an agent of government does not supersede the individual’s right to bear arms.

      and we as policemen have a duty first to protect the public

      The courts don’t agree with you. They have ruled that police have no duty to protect. You are perpetuating another myth.

      and our selves I am going home to my family at the end of the day

      That’s the cry of many murderous officers. If you are that scared, please find another line of work. However, bear in mind that statistics show that your line of work isn’t really all that dangerous.

      and all I can say is if this bill is passed in and an officer orders you to do something you better follow that order to the letter.

      Only lawful orders, officer. We’ve had your kind in Ohio and they didn’t fare so well. Texans will figure it out too. 😉

      my reading a lot of these posts it’s obvious that some people just think it will be cool to be able to walk around with a gun in public

      Living in an open carry state and open carrying every blessed day… yes, it really is easy and normal. Cool has nothing to do with it. It’s about Liberty, officer.

      they are not even really concerned about their safety and those are the people that we all should be worried about.

      There are multitudes of officers out there who fit exactly what you posted. I am more concerned about them.

      and remember just like concealed carry there are laws that make it unlawful to carry the weapon in certain situations and people do go to jail for you UCW with concealed handgun licenses all the time.

      Didn’t you take some sort of oath to uphold the Constitution?

      It’s obvious that you do not support exercise of the right to bear arms.

  25. “… anyone with a gun strapped to their hip or anyone carrying a gun around openly in public is a threat to my life.”

    It’s a sorry state of affairs, when those who are sworn to protect, have that much disdain for regular citizens.

    Maybe it’s time for you to find a new line of work?

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