B9316097439Z.1_20150202133523_000_GEI9RL3I2.1-0

“Will the subliminal message in every classroom be that we live in a world so dangerous that we have to be armed? Are we affirming the preeminence of force over ideas? Will some young gun-carrying dude – they’ll nearly all be males – be distracted by the fantasies of power that a gun bestows? Will he assume that his ideas are more valid because he imagines that he is protecting the rest of us? Will unarmed students be reluctant to challenge the ideas of the armed? Will they feel less inclined to express positions that differ from those of students with weapons? Will some students feel afraid or intimidated in a classroom that includes several strangers with prominently displayed weapons? Will some feel a need to arm themselves? Will I?” – John M. Crisp in How will guns and college classrooms mix? [at mcclatchydc.com]

120 Responses to Quote of the Day: Socratic Method Edition

  1. That’s a lot of questions that can easily be answered by looking at schools that allow students to carry…

  2. “Will he assume that his ideas are more valid because he imagines that he is protecting the rest of us?”

    This statement defines irony.

    • Socrates is guilty of crime in refusing to recognise the gods acknowledged by the state, and importing strange divinities of his own; he is further guilty of corrupting the young

      —Xenophon – Book I of THE MEMORABILIA or Recollections of Socrates

      Socrates is proof that you have to be careful around freedom hating statists devoid of the concept of logical deduction.

  3. Dude,

    Colleges are doing just fine at suppressing and discouraging the free exchange of ideas all on their own.

    • The school I went to was nothing more than a prison I am still paying a LOT of money to have been imprisoned at.

      • but hey, you got a peice of paper that proved you can put up with thier BS. and thats what employers like to see, a paper that proves your good at putting up with BS!

  4. From rate my professor. Not exactly a scientific survey but the criticisms are telling:

    “He gives you a grade based on in you write to his style of writing. It’s not bad, but he says at the beginning of the class that you can write about anything you want, just as long as you are focused and have a voice. Well, thats not true. If you want to have a good grade, write about topics he likes and agree with him. ”

    This guy even rated him “good”:
    “Make sure you have ideas to write about when you take his class. Also make sure he agrees with them and thinks the same or else you won’t get a very good grade. He can be helpful, but he sticks to his own opinions. “

        • a great many of them live thier entire lives in the world they believe in. If they are lucky they wont have a home invasion that ends up with them dead/raped, and if they survive, they usually toss a lot of the preconceived notions they had out the window and replace them with the reality that many of us know and live with. So that even though where I live the chances of a home invader are very, very low, I home carry. I know it seems strange and illogical to more then a few, but my desire to be armed does not stem from a blood thirsty, power crazed idea that because I am armed, it confers power and righteousness to me. But, rather, I am armed because the remote possibility exists that I might need it one day, even though I would be much happier if I never had to use a gun for my self defense.

        • SageBrusher:’
          .
          ” So that even though where I live the chances of a home invader are very, very low, I home carry.”
          .
          What are the chances of a home invasion happening to you? 1 in a million, I’d wager and others would argue.
          Statistics don’t lie.
          .
          As for me, I also home carry. If YOU are the ONE in a million, it becomes important. To YOU!. I refuse to be a victim!
          .

  5. Every collegiate history course I’ve taken as reaffirmed that we do indeed live a dangerous world. If given a choice between arbelists, falchions, or Kalashnikovs…any historical figure would choose the latter.

  6. They have such a low opinion of their students. In this mans mind, all of the males in his classes are just twitching in their seats all day, wishing they could kill someone. If they really believed this, why would they turn those same people loose into the adult world at the end of the day? Oh right, they try not to, as demo’d by the hairbrained “adjacent property” law. These are STUDENTS, you know, responsible young adults who are trying to make something of themselves. If THEY can’t earn these idiots trust, what chance do the blue collar men of this nation have? This is why Texans are tired of begging pencil necked dweebs like him for our God given rights, and are going over their heads instead.

    • Amen on that. I worked in the “halls of academia” for a while and it drove me NUTS that the staff and administration would call these 18-22 year olds “kids” and treat them as such.

      In meetings I’d mention that maybe the best way to get them into an adult mode of thinking would be to give them the same responsibilities and type of accountability as ADULTS out in the big world.

      I always got looked at like I had three purple heads.

      • “In meetings I’d mention that maybe the best way to get them into an adult mode of thinking would be to give them the same responsibilities and type of accountability as ADULTS out in the big world.

        I always got looked at like I had three purple heads.”

        I had a similar experience, but it went beyond that. When I actually tried to give my students adult-like responsibility, the department threatened to fire me. Fortunately, I already had a lawyer “on call,” and thus began what seemed at the time to be a very ugly chapter in my life.

        That ugly chapter turned out to be a BIG blessing. That was the dawning of my learning that I did not belong in academia.

        If there is one phrase that succinctly describes that world, based on my experience, I’d have to “completely, and totally, disconnected from reality.”

        That observation tempers everything I read or hear from anyone in academia.

    • Two points –

      1. I’m pretty sure we’re discussing CONCEALED carry on campus. Unless you do something really stupid, and potentially dangerous/harmful, you will never know who, or indeed if anybody at all, is carrying.

      2. Plenty of historical incidents of “dudes” lusting after power who did not carry guns (or weapons), but used the power of government and the weapons governments bring to bear, to tyrannize an UNARMED populace.

      • I don’t know about “plenty”, I was under the impression that only began a few thousand years ago. /sarc

      • “2. Plenty of historical incidents of “dudes” lusting after power who did not carry guns (or weapons), but used the power of government and the weapons governments bring to bear, to tyrannize an UNARMED populace.”

        Ever notice they always seem most concerned with the young males?

        It’s like they’re completely ignorant of what a truly pissed-off woman is capable of…

    • He’s terrified his students may evolve some self confidence and refuse to accept his tyranny of ideas in the classroom simply because he has authority.

  7. “Will the subliminal message in every classroom be that we live in a world so dangerous that we have to have insurance and wear seatbelts and wait an hour after eating before we go swimming?”

    Are we facing the reality that bad guys don’t care about ideas?

    Will some students suddenly lose their naiveté about the world in a classroom that includes several strangers with prominently displayed weapons?

    Will unarmed students completely unaware that there are firearms present or quickly get used to it?

  8. Sounds like a despot desperately trying to hold on to what little power he retains over the lowly minions under his charge in the classroom….

  9. Perhaps he should move back to the NE. And take “William McRaven, a former Navy SEAL” with him.

    Note: I’m bored with hearing the opinions of “former (or pretend) Navy SEALs”. The one time I worked around the undisciplined bunch of ______ they managed to kill one of their own during a peacetime training exercise. Not all that impressed. More sizzle that steak.

  10. Well, at least he’s honest. “Liberal, elite, left wing colleges and universities”.

    If he acknowledges that the left wing liberal/progressive cult is dominant in the bastions of “higher learning”, then it sounds as if they are the ones that need some exposure to a different perspective than their own. Especially when that perspective defends individual liberty and freedom.

    You know, the original beliefs that our founders held as they fought and died to birth a new nation.

  11. Let me answer those in order.
    Yes.
    Yes.
    They already do, even without owning one.
    Yes, see above.
    No.
    No.
    No.
    Yes.
    Yes.
    These aren’t rhetorical questions. Just stupid and misleading ones.

  12. As someone who has earned a professional doctoral degree taught largely with the Socratic method, I know Socratic, and this gentleman is a poor intellectual comparison, yet you can almost smell the condescension rising off him, can’t you? To quote Ann Coulter: “Of all life’s travails, perhaps none is as annoying as being condescended to by an idiot.”

      • Ann Coulter still has much to offer in her bombastic style.

        One of my faves:

        “Obama loves America the same way O.J. loved Nicole.”

        Ann Coulter truly is an American treasure.

        • Do I always agree with Coulter? Of course not. But she can almost always be counted upon for quality, conservative smart-assery, and we don’t have nearly enough to balance the John Stewarts and such on the left.

  13. Because when someone is trying to assault, rape, and/or murder you feel safe in the knowledge you have superior ideas and a better understanding of the civilized world.

    These are adults that carry concealed or openly everywhere else they go, vetted by the state and federal governments, but as soon as they step foot on campus they are incapable of containing their carnal instincts to kill? This professor simply wants to continue to abuse his students, push his own ideology, and maintain the leverage needed to do so. He knows that anyone that presents a differing opinion will enrage him so he projects that rage onto others. In a setting where opinions clash and rage flares the one with the gun wins and that wouldn’t be him, unless he started to carry to even the score, which explains the last two words in that quote.

    He makes me think of the professor in “God’s Not Dead” that has an entire class revolving around a singular personal view. Disagree with that view and you’ll probably fail. I had a few classes like that, they’re really the easiest to ace after a couple talks with the professor, for one I completed the entire semester’s work in about three weeks.

    • “These are adults that carry concealed or openly everywhere else they go, vetted by the state and federal governments, but as soon as they step foot on campus they are incapable of containing their carnal instincts to kill? ”
      .
      I don’t know. Given my experience hanging around the University of Oregon, and living in Eugene for years, you just might have something there.
      .
      Nearly drove ME crazy!
      .

  14. This gentlemen has to know that there are already college campuses that have armed students, right? He makes it sound as if this is a completely alien idea. I sincerely do not understand where he’s coming from.

    • What these people use for minds cannot accept anything which does not correlate 100% with their prejudices. It simply does not register. IOW, it is impossible for them to learn, and they believe it is unnecessary, as well.

    • ” . . . there are already college campuses that have armed students, ”
      .
      Horrors!
      .
      The classrooms must reek with the smell of blood, guts, and brains splattered everywhere.
      I hear there are janitorial positions galore. Just for the asking.
      .

  15. Will smaller students be reluctant to challenge the ideas of the 6’5″ 275 lb male? Will they feel less inclined to express positions that differ from those of students who are bigger, stronger, have a gang supporting them? Will some students feel afraid or intimidated in a classroom that includes several strangers who are far larger than they are?

    We are born into a world where physical differences can make huge disparities in strength, where size and numbers aligned together can coerce, enslave, those whose numbers and size are smaller. It was only the rise of personally owned and carried arms especially firearms that overcame that disparity and allowed all to partake of freedom.

    What the professor professes to want is a return to the days where personal might made ones speech and actions right. He likely thinks he will be one of those on the side of those with the larger, bigger, stronger, gangs. He’ll likely be right, but as one of the enslaved not as the leader.

  16. Replace the subject of each question with “government” and you will begin to understand the issue on a global scale.

    • That’s exactly what I was doing as I was reading it.

      Especially: “Will they feel less inclined to express positions that differ from those of students with weapons?”

  17. An armed society is a polite society.

    If only we could get these people to carry a gun for a whole day. They would change their minds when they suddenly feel themselves avoiding all conflict and suddenly more aware of themselves and their surroundings…if only…

    • Avoiding conflict? Those whackos will actively seek it out so they can blame the weapon instead who is holding it.

      They actually have a valid point when they state that some should never possess a weapon.

      What they don’t realize is the ones who should never possess a weapon is THEM.

  18. Will the subliminal message in every classroom be that we live in a world so dangerous that we have to be armed?

    The world isn’t such a place? Has reality no place in the classroom?

    • Recently toured a beautiful and safe college campus recently with my son. They spent a significant amount of time talking about their “buddy” system, the blue light/emergency phones that are networked a few hundred feet apart, every student having an ID for entry/tracking into buildings, and how they use cameras to monitor the security of the students remotely. It could have been a minimum security prison.

      I see all of that security as a bug but people like Mr. Crisp see it as a feature. I hate the whole wolf/sheepdog/sheep analogy but it fits here. College campuses are designed to promote and accommodate the sheep.

  19. To summarize Mr. Crisp’s mindset:

    If something about me offends or frightens someone, even though my spoken words and behavior are peaceful, I must change to alleviate other people’s feelings of offense or fear.

    What is the basis for such a sense of entitlement?

  20. He missed a question. Will this start a fad, wherein each and every student will decide to avail him/herself of means to personally defend themselves as soon as legally possible? We can only hope.

  21. And to get to the meat of Mr. Crisp’s concerns:

    (1) The only righteous use of force is to protect our rights to life, liberty, and property from attackers who insist on infringing on our rights to life, liberty, and property.

    (2) Ideas are the preferred method to protect life, liberty, and property. Force is a last resort when ideas have failed.

    (3) Points 1 and 2 above prohibit the use of force to coerce students and teachers into “agreement” on classroom subjects.

      • Almost never … it all depends on the attacker’s motivations, goals, and timeline.

        If the attacker’s agenda, goals, and timeline allows, I deploy ideas before force.

  22. “Are we affirming the preeminence of force over ideas?” Wait, you don’t think that’s already true? Both at a personal as well as societal level? And you’re a “professor”? The Romans had all sorts of great (and not-so-great) ideas. Didn’t stop the barbarians from running them over multiple times.

  23. “Will the subliminal message in every classroom be that we live in a world so dangerous that we have to be armed?

    Academia really don’t live in the real world, do they?

    Are we affirming the preeminence of force over ideas?

    Unless you know someone who has graduated from the Jedi Academy, yes: people who wish to perpetrate evil in the world are persuaded only by force, and not by ideas.

    Will some young gun-carrying dude – they’ll nearly all be males – be distracted by the fantasies of power that a gun bestows? Will he assume that his ideas are more valid because he imagines that he is protecting the rest of us?

    Einstein was wrong. The penchant for projection by progressives is every bit as infinite as the universe and stupidity.

    Will unarmed students be reluctant to challenge the ideas of the armed? Will they feel less inclined to express positions that differ from those of students with weapons? Will some students feel afraid or intimidated in a classroom that includes several strangers with prominently displayed weapons?

    You should try going to a gun range sometime. It’s the quickest and most sure cure for your irrational, paranoid hoplophobia.

    Will some feel a need to arm themselves? Will I?”

    I hope the sane ones do choose to exercise their right to keep and bear arms. You, though? The jury is still out on the matter of your sanity, so maybe you should hold off.

  24. For me the induced irresistible homicidal impulses and phallic dysmorphia caused by my gun usually keep relatively unaware of the increased validity of my notions, so I imagine he will not have such troubles with others.

  25. An armed student is an independent, self-reliant, freedom-minded individual. No statist professor could EVER allow that!

  26. Way to go, Crisp.

    Will pink pigs shit doilies?

    Why must the antis be so…extreme? Out of their own exaggerated fear?

    No wonder they are marginalized by anyone with half a brain.

  27. (This is what I sent to his E-Mail, for what good it does.)

    Hello John

    My advice. Take not the counsel of your fears.

    There are already a number of states that allow for CC in the class room for a number of years without an issue of what you speak. There is also the fact that licensed Concealed Carry citizens are more law abiding than the police. On average, a fraction of a percent of those those licensed to carry a weapon a charged with some crime severe enough to lose their license, usually not gun related. The police, on the other hand, are charged with a crime 1.5% of the time.

    The problem John, is that in a ‘liberal, elite left wing college or university” and the “elite” intellectuals that inhabits these Olympian heights obviously have utter contempt for and a complete lack of respect for those of us living out our “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short” lives here in our Hobbesian existence. At least in the view of many of the “elite”.

    Do you see those of us without the “benefits” of your “eliteness” in such a way? I believe you do. Because in the end, the definition of a free person versus a peasant, peon and slave have always been those that are trusted to keep and bear arms and those not trusted with that right.

    That has been true for all of recorded history. It is true today.

    Since you show a complete lack of trust of a proven law abiding citizen with back ground checks cleared by the FBI, you by historical precedent, look upon those same citizens/students as below contempt, as the “elite” have always looked down upon the “lower classes”.

    But for those in positions of power and control, as you are in you position as an “elite” leftist intellectual, standing in front of a captive audience; of course you would be scared of a free, responsible and mature adult that is not privy to your brand of submissive obeisance to the state. As any American worth his salt should be.

    So here’s a perspective that I, as a Libertarian, constitutionalist, and proud American think you need to hear. For what good it does.

  28. “Will the subliminal message in every classroom be that we live in a world so dangerous that we have to be armed?

    Psychologically – Yes – This is because the main stream media heavily covers shootings of all types but most especially school shootings – despite that their rate of victims are on par with death by lightening strikes. News media don’t cover lightening strikes because a political agenda is not involved and because it doesn’t garner interest and generate revenue. The main stream media actually loves mass shootings because their coverage generates a lot of revenue. In reality however – no. A difference of one or two deaths per one hundred thousand is in fact of little actual significance statistically. Part of this push back is directly attributed the the movement of the left and their pushing statistics on people killed by “guns” through their many media outlets. The more dangerous they illustrate the world to be – the more people tool up and prepare for the worst. In this case they themselves have exasperated the issue and they are the solution to their own problem. I, personally, feel fine walking around unarmed. That said why deny people who wish to be prepared?

    Are we affirming the preeminence of force over ideas?

    By allowing campus carry? Hardly. If one person wanted another dead and were willing to kill them, they probably don’t care about a campus carry law. Reality is – anyone can kill someone at any time by any number of means. Life and freedom entails risk – so have some courage yea. Force over ideas is not a valid statement. A campus carry law doesn’t mean a student gets to brandish his firearm or threaten other students and (English) teachers with it.

    Will some young gun-carrying dude – they’ll nearly all be males – be distracted by the fantasies of power that a gun bestows?

    No – but I’ll tell you what is a fantasy. The idea that a person who carries a gun is somehow emboldened by the amazing magical power of a gun. In all honesty, concealed carriers are terrified at the thought of drawing their firearm and shooting someone.

    Will he assume that his ideas are more valid because he imagines that he is protecting the rest of us?

    To take an answer from another TTAGer, maybe this is what you are doing right now. Logical deduction would bring us to a conclusion that the ideas that are more valid would be reached by logical deduction – not the presence of a gun.

    Will unarmed students be reluctant to challenge the ideas of the armed?

    See above. Why should they be? Again, if someone was willing to shoot you with a gun or stab you with a knife, etc they are not going to concern themselves with a law that says no weapons. You are implicitly implying that a campus carry law somehow enables them to do harm and therefore make people fear them. This fear is unwarranted as they are not “enabled” and furthermore there is nothing to fear.

    Will they feel less inclined to express positions that differ from those of students with weapons?

    See statement directly above this one.

    Will some students feel afraid or intimidated in a classroom that includes several strangers with prominently displayed weapons?

    See statement directly above this one.

    Will some feel a need to arm themselves? Will I?

    Due to the extensive revenue generating mainstream media coverage of school shootings and the governments support of such coverage – some may wish to be prepared in the event such would occur. Again there is nothing wrong with being prepared for a school shooting or a walk through a perceived dangerous neighborhood. Also, there is nothing to fear from these people or the freedom to exercise caution, personal responsibility, or perform activities which have no victim or otherwise harms no one or infringes on no one else’s rights.

  29. Threats, menacing, and brandishing are call considered criminal. Why does every one of these people ignore that folks who carry do not threaten others. Those that do are in the small minority of an already very small minority.

    • It furthers their agenda to be willfully ignorant of the facts. Either that or they are just mentally ill. Really, I can’t figure out any other answers for the behavior.

  30. I wrote to Mr. Crisp too and he wrote back politely and answered my question directly. I think firearms genuinely frighten him and that he does not trust himself with one. I imagine that such a person is not necessarily an un-redeemable caricature. He has been long molded in an environment that poisons people to many actually liberal principles.

    • He also could have been playing a game. I encountered that a lot during my years at university. When you finally peel back the layers of the “conversation” you find that they were never actually budging an inch from their original position. Hopefully, this is not the case.

  31. Just another leftist academician who isn’t happy unless people are defenseless and vulnerable. I’d like to ask him, though, how would his flowery language help in a VA Tech situation? (short answer, it won’t)

  32. His concerns are a mishmash of misapprehension, speculation, and perhaps some ghoulish wishful thinking.

    There are already numerous variables in a classroom environment that could result in students being intimidated into silence, or be emboldened into speaking out, that have nothing to do with firearms. Some people with squeaky voices may demure from verbal exchanges. Some are are shy outright, some don’t want to cross the professor. Others want to ingratiate themselves with a pretty classmate, so won’t challenge her views. Some want to appease a bigger, tougher loudmouth, so will hold their own tongue. Even others may simply lack confidence in the validity of their ideas and/or the clarity of their expression.

    This dynamic is part of college and part of becoming an adult. These are challenges to overcome. The possibility of someone being armed neither creates nor even exacerbates this atmosphere, as the atmosphere already exists. After all, in the real world, some people with whom one has a conflict will indeed be armed. You should be prepared for that; not default to defeat, just be polite.

    As for anyone actually shooting someone in class, just suddenly moved to maniacal rage over a debate or a grade, well, there’s no evidence of that, despite many years in several states’ campus carry experience. There is, however, a long and bloody history of well planned spree shootings on campuses, launched by killers fully mindful that their targets are disarmed. Removing infringement on campus carry will only serve to deter those from happening, or repel those when they do happen.

  33. is there anything Socratic about leading questions — questions that require a yes or no answer? Why does Crisp end every sentence with a question mark? Why am I doing it too? Someone please stop me before I question-mark again? Please? Thank you?

  34. What’s to say students aren’t alreay packing now, laws be dammed…

    Kind of like all the underage drinking and illegal drugs, what’s to stop them?

  35. Will the subliminal message in every classroom be that we live in a world so dangerous that any person with a firearm is out to kill us? Are we affirming the preeminence of fear over reality?

    • “But you, “sob, sob”. “You just don’t understand me!” “You just don’t know how I FEEL!” “Don’t my FEELINGS MATTER?”
      .
      Answer: “Over my daughter or wife being raped?” “NO! Your feelings do not matter.”
      .

  36. As a student at a very prominent Boston private school and a CCW owner, I keep trying to find some sort of middle ground. I feel that at least some sort of program could be tailored by universities in order to allow at least some students to carry on campus. The idea I’ve proposed in the past is to allow students with already valid state LTC’s to undergo X amount of hours training with campus police in basic firearms safety, legal circumstances regarding the use of a firearm, marksmanship training, and ultimately active shooter response training. Hell, make it worth a credit hour or something. At the end, the student is issued a certificate by the University police chief and forced to sign a confidentiality agreement of some sorts. As a result, the student is granted the right to carry concealed on campus, but will be immediately stripped of that right if other students learn that said student is carrying a firearm. This negates risk of roommates or friends gaining access to a firearm, in addition to nullifying fears of intimidation in an academic forum. While it certainly isn’t perfect, it would certainly aid in giving some responsible students the right to carry on campus, in addition to forcing potential active shooters to think twice before entering a room where a student could potentially be ready to meet them with force. Better than nothing I suppose.

    • How ’bout the university contracting with the NRA to offer “for credit” safety classes, marksmanship classes, legal consequences classes, and CCL classes?
      .
      How ’bout allowing students that complete all four classes to carry in any manner they choose. Open or Concealed!
      .
      How ’bout the university sponsor a gun club with an indoor pistol range?
      .
      How about the university sponsor marksmanship competition, both intermural and inter-collegiate?
      .
      How ’bout the university quit wasting money and time on whistles, running shoes, gun free zone signs and call-boxes?

      • I’m speaking as a student at an incredibly liberal school in Boston. The NRA (which I am a member of mind you) wouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the university or its policies. Open carry is also traditionally a no-go in Massachusetts, and considering the student body, would never be tolerated. I’d love to see the others implemented though. Based on the culture up here, baby steps are about the only chance we have. Mind you, my initial proposal is geared towards places where people see guns and non-hybrid vehicles and burst into tears, not places where firearms are widely accepted.

        • Perhaps then, you could publicly point out the schools irrationality, basing decisions on “feelings” & “fear” rather than facts.
          .
          Ask PUBLICLY: “What the Hell kind of a school is this anyway that bases its “rational” on feelings and fear?” .
          .
          Do so while simultaneously seeking admission to another school because you probably be drummed out of the present one, in which case you can sue for enough to pay for your education at a good school.
          .
          And to think Boston was at the crux of the Revolution!
          .
          .
          Think positively. Theirs a silver lining around every cloud!
          .

        • Baby steps when a freight train of tyranny is already bearing down on you will not end in your favor. Incrementalism got us here but it cannot get us back. None of us will live long enough.

    • As a student at a very prominent Boston private school

      As a result, the student is granted the right to carry

      Really?
      If you’re paying tuition then you’re getting ripped off.

      • If that is a dig at my intelligence, I’m missing it. If it’s saying that schooling in Boston is a waste, the program is great but getting through the political bias is tough. If anything it forces you to formulate an opinion based on outside sources and historical facts as opposed to the preachy diatribe force fed to you. Not a terrible lesson in empathy. In regards to the freight train of tyranny and moving in increments, there is likely going to be no formal legislation in the near future providing students the right to carry on his or her campus. Considering that Massachusetts is a “may-issue” state, there certainly isn’t going to be any impending legislation on a state level here to allow it. The best hope is to provide several cases demonstrating that campus-carry isn’t going to cause the halls to run red with blood. If this can be properly conveyed to the powers at be, then perhaps it could provide a basis for further expansion of student carry rights through formal legislation. However with no likely legislation on the horizon in area’s like mine, this course of demonstration is better than trying to stop an active shooter with scissors and harsh language.

      • No, it certainly was not a dig at your intelligence. It was a snarky dig at higher education regarding the bastardization of rights and what is being taught about the nature of those rights. Your post, I thought, was well articulated even if I don’t like the idea of begging to exercise our rights. The idea behind my sentence was that you are probably better than what the school is teaching and not the other way around.

        It is interesting that you immediately thought that I was attacking your intelligence and responded with some ball of words that I have yet to read. Trust me, I wasn’t intending to out your insecurity.

        Now, I’ll read what you wrote. I probably won’t really disagree with it much. If you take away nothing from my comments to you thus far… privileges do not equal rights and eating elephants to restore the RKBA is a fool’s errand.

        Peace.

        • No worries John, I assumed that’s what it was which is why I carried on with stating how sorting through the academic bullshit was a challenge. Had I been insecure about my intelligence, I would have attempted to defend it. While I do disagree as well with the notion of needing to ask for the ability to exercise our rights, I’ve yet to see a better option. As someone who sits in a classroom knowing that in the worst instance I would be left unarmed in a situation where traditionally I would be able to defend myself, I would hardly agree that the first bite of said elephant which somewhere could potentially save countless lives is a fool’s errand. I am a proponent of the right to keep and bear arms as well, and I do fully agree that rights differ from privileges. I also do believe that it is wrong for my university to deny me my right to keep and bear arms while in a “gun free zone” which only renders law abiding gun owners the opportunity to see how slowly the police arrive. However, currently on my campus I have neither the right nor privilege to bear arms. In the instance of crisis, I’d prefer the privilege to shoot back versus my current luxury of sitting with my thumb up my ass. Nobody is going to give us anything in this matter, so taking what we can get and moving off of it, even if it just stops one lunatic, is better than sitting idly empty handed while complaining about the injustice of it all..

        • Good post. I agree with your intent; work for what you can get. Armed is better than disarmed. One of my two main points was that I don’t believe it is a viable plan for a permanent solution. It is a band-aid. We’ve both expressed our opinions and I think we can agree to disagree on little things here and there. Even then, I’m not sure that we fundamentally disagree. For what it is worth, I think you’re on a good course and I’m glad to have you working for restoration.

          Carry on when and where you can. Stay safe.

    • I applaud you for fighting for recognition of your rights in a place where it’s not easy. We need more people like you in Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, and California, who are looking to change cultures rather than bail out to 2A-friendly places.

      There may not be a quick or easy solution, but your ideas sound great. As long as your willing to deal with defeat and revise your strategy, you’ll do great things.

  37. “Will the subliminal message in every classroom be that we live in a world so dangerous that we have to be armed? And pretending that we live in a world that is all teddy bears and rainbows, will that make everything better? When is it better to NOT live in reality? If you can not handle the world you live in, then you have only 2 options: learn to deal with it or opt out.
    Are we affirming the preeminence of force over ideas? I fail to see how you even came to such a conclusion. since when did any gun toter force his beliefs or gun ownership on others via force?
    Will some young gun-carrying dude – they’ll nearly all be males – be distracted by the fantasies of power that a gun bestows? aren’t all young men distracted by fantasies? isnt that one of the criteria of being young? and wouldnt all “dudes” be male? if the person think a gun is bestowing upon them magical powers, then i’d say there is a psychological issue at work here, not the “evil of the gun powers”
    Will he assume that his ideas are more valid because he imagines that he is protecting the rest of us? could this be any more vague? ideas about what? gun ownership? Constitutional rights? the best color for a corvertte? the perfect breast size? its 48 DD incase you weren’t sure
    Will unarmed students be reluctant to challenge the ideas of the armed? so your idea is that a student/teacher will set upon his podium at the front of the class and dictate reality to others, and when he is challenged he just pionts to the gun and says “sit down”. really? so that would indicate that you have seen this down by some “young gun-carrying dude”? Evidence?
    Will they feel less inclined to express positions that differ from those of students with weapons? if they truly feel their cuase is just, then nothing should stop them, not guns, not tanks, not ridicule. THAT is how you know who is a true believer.
    Will some students feel afraid or intimidated in a classroom that includes several strangers with prominently displayed weapons? were you afriad the first time you encountered something dangersous? of course. then you educated yourself on the subject and guidelines ( like anything else, driving, drinking, sex, etc) and then the fear of the unknown deminishes.
    Will some feel a need to arm themselves? if they value their life and the lives of other innocents, yes. because bad guys/unstable people don’t/can’t.
    Will I? see above.

  38. Is this guy able to make a statement or express an opinion, or can he only ask rhetorical questions? Should anyone listen to such a sanctimonious dumbass? How did we get to the point where college professors are all ultra-liberal pseudo intellectuals? Why is it always that those who can, do, and those who can’t, teach? What is the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything? Is it really “42” and if so, what does that mean?

  39. If this ivory tower dweller thinks being unarmed will put people at such huge disadvantages why isn’t he a proponent of everyone having the right to be armed?

    I know, I know….he doesn’t want to live in that world. Problem is the world didn’t ask what he wants and doesn’t care. Head in the sand is a poor strategy.

  40. “The not-so-subliminal message in every classroom now is that the world is a dangerous place when campus rape and school shootings in Gun Free Zones is the headline of the hour, month and year. Being armed affirms the preeminence of ideas of brute strength and force, putting everybody on an equal footing to express their ideas regardless of strength or physical stature. Young dudes are distracted by a great number of things and many already assume their ideas are more valid because they stand upon the perch of physical strength and ability and fantasize about lording it over on others. Those of lesser ability and and stature are already reluctant to challenge that strength and feel less inclined to express their positions that differ from those students with muscle. Bullying has been a fact of life for decades and students already feel afraid and intimidated in the same classroom as those who are physically stronger and openly display their attitude and attributes. Do the weak feel the need to compensate through excercise? Or perhaps the purchase of a firearm? Do you?”

    …So basically another person who thinks they sound smart by applying every nerd movie ever made in the 1980s to gun control and failing miserably at it. My favorite was Wierd Science. I was so hot for Kelly LeBrock back in the day.

  41. I am going to go out on a limb here I think…maybe I will fall and land on my head, maybe not.

    All of us reading this site know the realities of legal carry. We all know the stats, we all know people that carry daily and we know that we have nothing to fear from virtually everyone who carries legally. However, little Judy Student form Chicago sitting in her first ever college class doesn’t know that.

    Judy only knows what she has seen on TV shows and being from Chicago all she knows is that alot of people get shot…she sees it every day on the local news. Guns scare Judy, they scare her alot. Yes, being away at college and away from the daily influence of her parents is a great opportunity for someone to educate Judy on the realities of guns and carry, but not in her first ever college class.

    I fully support campus carry but it really must be limited to concealed carry for this reason. Judy doesn’t need to know that she is safer to be safer. At some point hopefully some nice young man will befriend Judy and take her to the range and maybe convert her to our side but if her first experience ever is a bunch of scary guys she doesn’t know openly carrying big scary guns, it will be harder. Or maybe not, like I said i may fall off this limb and land on my head.

    • ” I have neither the right nor privilege to bear arms”
      .
      You are wrong, Rich. You have not lost the Right. The State of Mass, and your university have illegally DENYED you your Right to keep and bear arms.
      .
      Your Unalienable, Natural, or God-given, if you will) Right as ENUMERATED (not granted, not given, but merely enumerated) in the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution cannot remove that Right.
      .
      You notice I capitalize the word “Right”. I do so to call attention to the difference between a Right and a privilege.
      .

  42. “Will the subliminal message in every classroom be that we live in a world so dangerous that we have to be armed? Yes
    Are we affirming the preeminence of force over ideas? No
    Will some young gun-carrying dude – they’ll nearly all be males – be distracted by the fantasies of power that a gun bestows? No
    Will he assume that his ideas are more valid because he imagines that he is protecting the rest of us? No
    Will unarmed students be reluctant to challenge the ideas of the armed? Maybe or maybe not.
    Will they feel less inclined to express positions that differ from those of students with weapons? Maybe or maybe not.
    Will some students feel afraid or intimidated in a classroom that includes several strangers with prominently displayed weapons? Maybe or maybe not.
    Will some feel a need to arm themselves? Good idea.
    Will I?” No, because you have a phobia about guns.

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