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A TTAG reader writes, “I received an email blast from the NRA-ILA regarding Wisconsin state senate and assembly bills to remove the 48-hour waiting period for handgun purchases. If these bills get passed and signed into law it would be a HUGE step in the right direction in preserving our civil liberties. It would also give presidential candidate Scott Walker a chance to prove his worth to the rest of the country’s second amendment supporters. Though this bill does not confront the inherent infringement and unconstitutionality of background checks . . .

it is a step in the right direction none-the-less.”

In terms of firearms freedom, taken as a whole, is America moving in the right direction these days? Or does the disarmament darkness in Washington State, California, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Hawaii and elsewhere cast a pall over gun rights gains?

71 Responses to Question of the Day: Winning?

  1. A win is a win is a win. I don’t care what happens to an individual State as long as when those States go bankrupt under their own fault, the Federal government doesn’t steal from the red states to give welfare to the blue ones. That is what I want conservatives in DC to do. Protect the free States from the slave States. We will take the refugees from those States but they need to leave their failed politics behind.

    • Those Blue States, like California, actually pay more into the Federal government than they receive, unlike many Red States which receive more than they give. Your scenario is stupidly ignorant.

      Of course the reason that is the case is partially geographical (other than the 80 coming in from Nevada, and the 5 along the grapevine during winter, few interstates here need as much maintenance than say in MO or Alaska or Wyoming. Part of it is because in so-called blue states, contrary to their ideology, the rich are richer and the poor poorer (wealth disparity is greater), and taxes from the super rich go a long way beyond paying for the poorer. Part of it is that large states (population wise) are large enough to provide many services that the Feds fund elsewhere.

      • The disparity from red vs. blue states actually comes from Military bases and installations. It’s completely coincidental actually. Controlling for that and the states are roughly equal with a statistically insignificant difference between them.

      • Funny, I remember in the last couple years ol moonbeam claiming that CA had a balanced budget and it being debunked on the grounds that they weren’t counting unfunded liabilities like state employee pensions, and also they were counting on a certain amount of federal money that was not guaranteed, to claim that the budget was balanced. Maybe the amount was just less than we generated in federal taxes.

    • Sadly, we can never just take the win and relax……they will never, ever stop….so each win is but a moment of respite from their struggle to end the 2nd Amendment…..

  2. In terms of firearms freedom, taken as a whole, is America moving in the right direction these days?

    Nope. DHS, NDAA, Patriot Acts, NSA, etc, etc, etc. All we really get amount to just scraps from the masters’ table because we are losing in overall Liberty. Add in compulsory indoctrination of the children and we’re screwed in a couple of generations, perhaps after this one, if we don’t make a substantial course correction regarding all individual liberties.

    The exercise of actual rights are being converted into privileges on multiple fronts. The incline of the slippery slope is not constant. The farther down the slope we go, the steeper it becomes.

    • You said it before I could. This Country and Planet are both getting worse everyday. Full blown Tyranny is getting closer and so is World War 3.

    • I don’t know… It seems to me that the Patriot Act, NSA, etc. are the natural extension of Hoover’s FBI and McCarthy’s paranoia. I don’t know that those government forces have been intensified so much as they have been modernized (to be clear, none of it is good and all of it is tyrannical). And on the indoctrination front, these millennials seem to be highly resistant to being force-fed anything.

      I could be wrong, just calling them like I see them…

      • Tyranny today is, of course, an extension of the past. It’s the scope and accelerated expansion that is disturbing.

        Many are indeed becoming aware or they are more noticeable because of the interwebz . However, I don’t believe enough of them will become aware enough and dedicated enough to blaze any substantial trails back. The government indoctrinational momentum is too great for much grass roots/independent organic awakening to be enough. Knock out the compulsory indoctrination and I believe that we could restore the Republic in one or two generations.

        IMHO, the US is heading towards bloody conflict or the the total destruction of the American Empire. That doesn’t mean we give up. Quite the contrary, it means we must work that much harder and push, push, push for individual Liberty with everything we have. “Eating elephants” ain’t going to do it. We’ll choke before we make substantial headway.

        • Gotta say unfortunately I’m pretty sure we a losing in the long run. Patriot act, GCA of 1934, Brady Bill, Hughes Amendment, FBI, NSA, TSA and that’s just on the federal level and naturally I didn’t even list a hundredth of the infringements.

  3. Our victories are well earned, not rushed in overnight at the height of panic, under any guise or using any other sort of subterfuge. We should be proud of our victories, no matter how small, as they empower us with a lot more conviction than those of the antis.

    Some states are only strengthening firearms freedom, eventually the difference between firearms freedom and low crime-rates will be so prevalent we will begin gaining momentum to free other states again. Until then, I think as long as we don’t lose another state to disarmament darkness we will remain on the path to winning.

  4. Of course we’re winning. That’s not the point. The battle is still raging and it won’t be over until it’s over, which will probably never happen. So, keep fighting and enjoy the fight. Yes, that’s right — enjoy the fight. Because it’s fun kicking the left’s @ss.

    • Ralph, sometimes you sound intolerant of all the nice, sensitive, politically-correct opinions that some people have. I even get the impression that you would great the aforementioned opinions with sarcasm, or possibly even outright mockery.

      You’re welcome to come over for a scotch anytime.

    • I’ve said it many times. This is a fight my grandkids will have to also fight. Even if tomorrow we get all restrictions of all kinds lifted on firearms purchases and use in another decade some one will raise the need for gun control. The fight never ends.

      We just happen to be winning now. Which is much better than the 60’s and the 70’s.

    • Think I’ll go with Ralph on this one. Winning, because the Antis are not winning. But not won, because they haven’t stopped trying.

  5. Hard to say. In some respects Texas is getting more Texasier, but, after the last election cycle, the anti’s gained 2 more California’s. If it’s a war of attrition, the long term odds aren’t looking good.

    We should get an additional amendment which spells out what infringement is, while the odds are in our favor.

  6. My home state (IL) recently went from no carry to shall issue concealed carry. It’s expensive and there are a lot of places you can’t carry (the no CC on mass transit in particular seems to discriminate against impoverished minorities who cannot afford an auto), but it infinitely better than no carry. Also, slipping under the radar was the removal of the ban for reenactors to own SBR/SBS firearms to use while reenacting (get you Tommy guns).

    • “the no CC on mass transit in particular seems to discriminate against impoverished minorities who cannot afford an auto”

      Do we suppose that’s an accident? Esp after bloombutts racist comments the other day? Does anybody think it will prevent gangbangers from carrying on mass transit in order to get to the killing fields? This is exactly the kind of stupidity which has to be pointed out, constantly. Force the advocates to explain why there is no difference after their pet law was passed.

  7. We need to muzzle the ATF regarding the M855 ban, unnecessary raids, etc. WI is prosecuting non-CCW holders for Taser possession. CO still has a 15 round mag cap limit, unless grandfathered. We’re a school shooting away from another gun control push. And many of our nation’s 100,000 plus schools have less security than the mall jewelry store.

    Hopefully we can elect Rand Paul or Scott Walker and start taking even more of our freedom back. Thankfully Obama and Hillary have done such a wretched job that anyone with political savvy is tired of their shenanigans.

    • I like Rand Paul, but he’s the modern Adlai Stevenson of the Republicans — way too intellectual to attract Mr. & Mrs. Everyman. Besides, most people don’t know the difference between Rand and his nutty dad. Walker is better. He should be able to hold the base. But can he make a strong inroad into the women’s vote? I don’t know.

      Barry Goldwater, where the hell are you when we need you most?

      • He left his disciple, Paul Ryan.

        Who is a good friend of Scott Walker.

        These two need to be in DC at the same time. Let’s make it happen, people.

        I’ve been fighting for Walker for practically all of the 21st century; it’s nice to see the club growing.

      • “But can he make a strong inroad into the women’s vote?”

        There are certain promises he could make to the women of America which would help him a lot, there, but it may conflict with his success with the “base” (fanatical controlling men).

  8. We’ve been winning in far more places than we’ve lost. We’ve also succsesfully repelled a strong federal attack in 2013. However, the toughest fight will be comming soon… And there will be plenty of fighting for us all to do. The democrats will be back, with hitlery at the helm, and that will be the ultimate political showdown of the millennia era politics of left and right. It will be the culmination of socialist liberal politics since 1992 vs the reactionary culmination of conservative politics since the conservative revolution. This will be the defining battle of this era of American politics, with the outcome possibly effecting the rest of the century. It may come to blood, it may not. But it’s going to be the ultimate showdown of right vs left.

  9. In WA State the waiting period is waived IF you have a current CPL and pass the background check. Seems like a good system to me. Also seems to me that the 48 hour waiting period is not such a bad idea. Except in the case of, say, a person who is being threatened and needs protection right now. OTOH someone that is mad or thinking about suicide why is the waiting period a bad thing? Only argument I can think of is the the government is interfering and/or that it is almost impossible to differentiate between someone that really needs a pistol and someone else who might want it for a bad purpose. Is there any evidence, one way or the other, that the 48 hour waiting period is harmful, or not ?

    • A right delayed is a right denied, so yes, it’s harmful. Besides, the burden of proof should be on the party seeking to restrict rights, not on the party defending them. So if the G has no evidence that a waiting period reduces suicide — and it doesn’t — the waiting period must fall.

      • Ralph, you said it right, but didn’t emphasize well enough for me. The proof must be “reduces suicide”, and not “reduces suicide by gun”. If all guns disappeared, suicide would still continue, this kind of law (restricting the majority’s freedoms) must be shown to reduce OVERALL suicide before even being considered. As it is, it is nothing but a ruse by those who have an agenda which does not concern itself with suicide. In short, it is a lie.

    • The much more important question is whether there is any evidence that a 48-hour waiting period is effective. Hint: there isn’t any evidence because such waiting periods are not effective. If I want to kill myself, I can drive a car into the pillars of a highway overpass at 100 mph and succeed every time. Or I can jump off a high cliff, bridge, or building and succeed every time. If I am furious with someone and want to assassinate them, I can casually walk up behind them and crush their skull with a hammer or whack them in the neck with a steel pipe and then finish them off after they fall to the ground unconscious. As you well know, hardware stores never check a person’s criminal record before selling hammers and steel pipes.

      Regardless of the presence or absence of data, it is patently offensive that government declares what I can or cannot have or how fast I can acquire something. A person could say something that is incredibly harmful. Do we make everyone wait 48 hours before they can talk because their speech might be harmful?

      • I can personally attest to the fact that 100 mph into a freeway support column is lethal. Cars break into pieces at that speed, and bodies do as well. Neither of those is as harrowing as watching someone die in front of you.

        • “I can personally attest to the fact that 100 mph into a freeway support column is lethal.”

          How about those water-drum collapsible or foam crush barriers? Do they offer any protection?

        • Geoff PR,

          I imagine the water barrels do a pretty good job slowing down a car … although they may not do much good for a car hitting them at 100 m.p.h.

          You could always step in front of a train or semi-truck going 60+ m.p.h. which will be lethal every time. Or simply tie a rope around your neck, tie the other end to the “railing” of a highway overpass with about 8 feet of slack, and then jump over the side. There are no background checks before walking in public or purchasing rope. Where there is a will, there is a way.

  10. Are we winning? I guess it depends on your definition of “winning”.

    In terms of the populous, I think we are winning handily. That recent Gallop poll shows that something like 65% of respondents do NOT want more gun control. And look at the the recent comprehensive poll at PoliceOne where something like 96% of active and retired police officers support armed citizens. Look at gun ranges. You see a lot of women and young folks that were not there 15 years ago. Look at firearm and ammunition sales over the last 10 years. On a personal level, many of my friends and family members have tooled up and now vocally support — and vote for — our right to keep and bear arms. Again, this was not the case 15 years ago. Sure, gun grabbers still have a death grip on coastal California, Downstate New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Hawaii, and Cook County, Illinois. Otherwise, we have broad support.

    Of course the political and legal landscape is dragging its heels. And yet we have bright beams of light shining through. Heller finally dispelled the “collective rights” notion. Some judges have written outstanding court opinions. Texas appears to be on the verge of de-criminalizing open carry. Louisiana substantially strengthened their right to keep and bear arms in their state constitution. Constitutional carry is now law in, what, five states? The police in many regions are rapidly repealing their policy of arresting and harassing legal open carriers. Many states have eliminated specific “gun free zones” from their licensed/concealed carry statutes. And we can even carry on National Park lands now.

    I suppose if you live in any of the locations where gun-grabbers still have a death-grip as I outlined above, your assessment is that we are losing. If you live just about anywhere else in the United States, I suspect your assessment is that we are winning.

    • You make an excellent point. I honestly think the idea of gun owners as Old Fat White Guys is dead. When I go to the range, its usually loaded with younger men, and often their girlfriends/wives. Often times there are children too. And its definetly not all white. As far as millennials go I honestly think its going to be the most gun toting generation since before world war two. Most young new gun owners got into guns despite their parents ignorance. I think this generation has seen some ugly sides of the government at a young age and will not be so trusting of it like their parents and grandparents.

      • Count me in that group! 10 guns and more on the way and I’m still not even 21! 20,000 rounds of ammo last year :). And that’s even with dealing with New Jerseys lunacy. Up next is a WASR 10. Because the morons banning guns here are too stupid to realize I can still get an AK without a bayonet lug.

      • My local range, the last few times I’ve been there, has regularly had lots of visible tats, men with startling ear decorations (if you can call them that) skinheads, all manner of non-OFWGs. And its always crowded.

  11. It’s a mixed bag.

    There are states considering constitutional carry bills. There are states that are removing existing restrictions on carrying and/or reducing carry permit requirements. There are states that are OK-ing NFA items that were previously prohibited. Judges in courts are often – but not always – ruling in favor of the RKBA.

    However, there are also states that are passing magazine restrictions, gun bans, expanded background checks/transfer restrictions, etc. The Feds, as a general rule, are infringing upon liberty more and more every year, although not too much specifically in regards to firearms.

    The fight, as some mentioned, will never be over. In many respects, we are making progress. But there’s a LOT still to do, and the forces against us aren’t giving up anytime soon.

    • Perhaps, but I would argue that “states that set the trend for the nation”, is a bit overblown. NY and CA often set trends for other states- for other like minded blue states, sometimes purple states. Often those trends are automatically rejected by free states, and from it we get reactionary movements such as the numerous “anti bloomberg laws” over things from guns to large sodas across the country.

    • If Peruta survives, Cali will be shall issue.

      “A goes California, the rest of the states will follow.”

      Or supposedly something like that…

  12. One advantage that the Fabian Socialists have over us is their vision and patience to play the long game – long, as in decades or even centuries. They have played that long game to erode our rights, and too many of our side will only ever accept “all-or-nothing” victories.

    A win is a win. Hard-fought and hard-earned victories are more sustainable victories, because they require a culture change – and result in a culture change. Yes, we are winning. No, things are not yet as they should be.

    • The Fabians stated aim is “The spread of socialism via covert means”. Their benign appearance is a farce as they use agents of influence such as the media and political advisers to achieve their goals.

  13. While some wins seem encouraging, the longer term picture looks less positive in my opinion. Until gun owners and people who support freedom stop thinking in terms of left vs right, or dems vs repubs, we are playing a long term losing game. The small handful of oligarchs, American and otherwise, that actually run this country, it’s banking system, and of course it’s Governemnt, both left and right , have no intentions of letting middle stay armed.

    • IMHO, one of the major things we must regain is the deterrent value of a freely armed people. Any arms in the hands of individual Americans has some value in deterrence of tyranny. However, I believe that we require more of a deterrent in the form of perhaps ubiquitous long gun carry, previously NFA variety firearm proliferation, etc. Then, the deterrent shall be restored to a more effective level and I would breath a wee bit easier.

    • I believe that any year in which the number of armed Americans exceeds last year’s figures is an overall win, and a win for the long term goals. When another AWB was proposed, black rifles simply FLEW off the shelves, and I will personally guarantee that was not due to people’s desire to have (or allow) their valuable personal property to be stolen by any government.

  14. Sure we’re winning on some fronts. We have a 3 day wait in Illinois-and isn’t it 10 days in Commiefornia? So we have a long way to go. The back door ammo bans are a HUGE threat…

  15. In short, winning, but not won.

    The tide is turning. I compare this to early 1943, with the Axis starting to suffer some defeats. It will be a long slog still though, and in 194, the tide could have turned again and the war could still be lost.

  16. We are winning. I’m most thrilled that Bloomberg has shifted the battle to the State level.
    The 2A won’t be dead until the 50’th falls. That will be a very long time in the future. One by one, as Bloomberg achieves a victory (e.g., WA), the Fudds and disinterested in that State and other threatened and free States will awaken. I can’t imagine how gun owners in NV would allow a referendum on UBC to pass; but suppose it does. Then OR. Bang, Bang, Bang! Gun owners who would not pay attention before would have to start to wake-up.
    Once the low-hanging fruit have been plucked, the next level will be much harder to reach because gun-owners are going to raise a defense. That will raise the defense at the Federal level. More Senators and Congressmen who are voted into Congress to protect the 2A.
    The issue to keep an eye on today is National Reciprocity. Which of our RINOS and Blue-Dogs will stand up for us? Inquiring minds want to know so we can primary them before 2016. We must get this bill to a floor vote THIS year.
    I think National Reciprocity will be a tipping point. Once Pennsylvanians can CC in NJ and Virginians can CC in MD, it’s going to be increasingly difficult to maintain the blood-in-the-streets fantasy in the Won’t-Issue States. Until then, NJ voters can delude themselves that Newark is different from Philadelphia; MD voters that Baltimore is different from Richmond.
    Then, women gradually recognizing that they can BE safer, not just claim to FEEL safer. Once they have the opportunity to choose, they will have to face up to their responsibility to make that choice.
    Jihadi attacks migrating from the Middle East to Europe and becoming more numerous in the US will start a snowball roll.

  17. What are the low-life gun-grabbers doing? They are keeping a lower profile till they can get more support. They haven’t quit. They are just trying to lull Americans while they re-group and change their approach a bit to confuse the issue. Because they all are now aware that most Americans can now see through their lies! So eventually they can come at us with more lies that are harder to nail down.

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