NJ State Police to Dealers and Manufacturers: Show Us Your Papers!

NJ FID card and purchase permit (courtesy blairstownpolice.org)

“The Division proposes new N.J.A.C. 13:54-4.13(b) to require dealers and manufacturers to make records available for inspection by the Division of State Police.” That’s one of the rule changes proposed by the New Jersey state police, published in the New Jersey register on December 15th. The other changes that’ve caught the eye of gun rights advocates involve gun dealer security; dealers must inform the police if their alarm system fails and move the guns to another approved alarmed location within 24 hours if ADT is AWOL. But the “show us your papers” provision highlights a simple fact . . .

The New Jersey State Police maintain full records of all legal gun purchases and transfers in the state. In other words, New Jersey has gun registration. If they decide to crack down on NJ gun owners, to confiscate illegally held firearms from otherwise law-abiding citizens, they will know the who, what, when and where of the matter. Including passport photos renewed every three years.

While Chris Christie’s presidential aspirations make any such crackdown as likely as a newbie out-shooting Jerry Miculek, the confiscation potential is there. Thousands of Garden State gun owners refused to comply with the state’s “assault weapon” ban. All that’s needed is the motive and opportunity. With this new rule change, effecting a gun grab is that much easier. But that’s OK because . . . it is.

The public at large will benefit from the adoption of amendments and new rules to this chapter through the continued regulation by the Superintendent of those persons and entities licensed to sell or acquire firearms.

Spoken like a true police state.

comments

  1. avatar Accur81 says:

    Wow. “Superintendent” is even capitalized. Communism is alive and well in Jersey.

  2. avatar MIKE CROGNALE says:

    Sigh. Is there no one in New Jersey with the courage to start the brush fire against these traitors?

    1. avatar mark says:

      Exactly, but what is needed is a conflagration.

      1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        True, but a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single flame. Or something like that. You know what I mean.

  3. avatar Alex Waits says:

    NJ has the framework.. Now its just awaiting some enterprising young dictator to step in and save the state. Glad I moved.

  4. avatar fishydude says:

    No biggy. There are people who call themselves “federalists” that believe that the Constitution only applies to what they federal government can and cannot do. These people claim the states are free to ignore any or all of the constitution within their borders up to and including instituting a Stalinist state government that confiscates all weapons and kills anyone that doesn’t like what the Stalinist state government does.
    These people misreads the 10th amendment. You know, that part where is says “nor prohibited by it.”
    NC is gaining former NJ residents.
    Most Northeast states have been losing seat count in the House of Representatives because the freedom loving productive people of those states are leaving.
    Hopefully we get some SCOTUS rulings to strengthen Heller and other rulings to undo the damage the Libtard dominated Northeast has done to their citizens.
    Gun control advocates are knowingly on the side of organized crime and terrorists. A disarmed public is easier for them to extort or kill.

    1. avatar NEOWA says:

      Goch ya one of them guberment skool edumacations didn’t ya?

    2. avatar J says:

      Except for every American born person that leaves NJ/NY, they are replaced by a third world immigrant.

  5. avatar Pantera Vazquez says:

    New Jersey finding new ways to marginalize-harass gun owners or dealers. Surprise,surprise/sarc.

    1. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

      There’s no tax on clothing in NJ, and that’s probably the only type of business worth having in this worthless socialist people’s republic. I’m surprised we even have gun stores here. There’s no way I’d be willing to run a gun business in NJ.

  6. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

    Is it just me or is subchapter 5 missing in the pdf? It’s mentioned under proposals the the second or third paragraph down but all I see is 4 then 6.

    1. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

      Oh and this doesn’t only effect dealers. It includes the no fly list bs and reduce the number of evil features allowed on a semi auto shotgun from one to none.

      1. avatar SuperiorPosture says:

        The number of evil features allowed on a semi-auto shotgun is already zero here in New Jersey.

        1. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

          “iii. A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two (one) of the following:

          (1) A folding or telescoping stock;

          (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

          (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or

          (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine;”

        2. avatar SuperiorPosture says:

          And now read the very next line in the definition of “Assault weapon”.

          3. A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a folding stock, or a pistol grip;

          I have no clue why they bothered making a 2 feature test if they were going to rule out 2.5 of the evil features with the very next definition anyway. So unless you find a shotgun with a collapsible stock and a box mag that takes 6 or fewer rounds, then evil features are, in fact, limited to none.

        3. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

          Stupid contradictory laws. I ended up finding that after I replied.

        4. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

          A Saiga 12 with a plain old rifle stock would now be banned if I’m understanding this crap correctly.

      2. avatar Mark N. says:

        I saw this also. If you are on the no fly list CANNOT get a permit to buy or possess a gun. As has been shown by litigation, it is very easy to get on “the list” (actually there are many lists) and almost impossible to get off. You do not even have to be suspected of a crime to get on the list,; a mere relationship with someone else is enough. Currently, there are about 1 million people on the list, many of tem Americans basically this means is that you are denied your right to keep and bear arms without due process, without a remedy, and without having been convicted of a crime, in fact, without even being accused of a crime. This is grossly unconstitutional.

        1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

          Should those people on a no-fly be debarred their RKBA, or even be on such a thing as a no-fly list in the first place? I don’t know. Maybe? What is unconscionable, is the near complete lack of due process involved. Perhaps some change is on the way, though.

          Last year, in a case brought by the ACLU, U.S. District Judge Anna Brown ordered the government to come up with a new way for the 13 plaintiffs to contest their inclusion on the list that prohibits them from flying in or through U.S. airspace. The government must provide notice to the plaintiffs that they are on the roster and give the reasons for their inclusion, Brown wrote. She also ordered that the government allow the plaintiffs to submit evidence to refute the government’s suspicions.

          What’s happened since then, either in the courts or at DHS, I don’t know.

        2. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

          My now deceased veteran uncle actually made it on the no fly list. The rumor I heard was he had the same name as someone in the IRA No relation what so ever.

  7. avatar preston says:

    Robert, you sound fucking crazy. you sound like the exact embodiment of a conspiracy lunatic fundamentalist. Watch as i explain by using this article:
    “the confiscation potential is there. ”
    this is a blatant and unfounded assumption. THE EXACT SAME THING ANTI’S DO WITH GUNS. they say it has the POTENTIAL to hurt innocent people, therefore it should gone, THE EXACT SAME THING YOU ARE SAYING. you will say , “no because they are trying to use state laws to supersede federal rights” anti’s would say ” guns are negating peoples right to “life”. the same argument.
    “to confiscate illegally held firearms from otherwise law-abiding citizens”
    how does a law-abiding citizen have illegal firearms? so law-abiding is subjective to the whims of whomever is uttering the words? law abiding MEANS you follow the written laws of your area.
    if you don’t like the laws of your state, LEAVE. Follow Magpuls steps.
    you consistently propose straw man arguments.

    1. avatar PubliusS says:

      preston, you are violating one of the few rules here, but as anyone can tell, you indict yourself with your own words…and your obscenity laced accusations could as easily be turned back on you.

      Alinsky’s rules: http://matthewvadum.blogspot.com/p/saul-alinskys-24-rules-for-radicals.html

      Stick to the facts, dude.

    2. avatar Chadwick P says:

      Inept much? Firearms are illegal at the drop of a hat. Someone somewhere decides green guns are scary and they are illegal firearms if the new law says so. I’m glad that you have faith that our government and all its tyrants will never take guns away. At the same time I’m sad that you are unable to learn from history. Registration leads to unchecked confiscation at the very least. Too many speeding tickets? We have his address lets no knock his ass. Seriously wake up man. Or don’t but either way one day you will realize not everyone in this world may have your best interests in mind.

    3. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      Characterizing as potentiality a regulatory change which constitutes a concrete and necessary step toward the very future state, i.e., civilian disarmament through confiscation, that avowed gun grabbers have spent decades striving toward, is not a straw man argument. It’s called an accurate depiction of events.

      Now, comparing this to antis’ painting of inanimate firearms, in and of themselves, as potential life snatchers, there’s your straw man argument.

      I would have expected your arguments to evince some reflection and improvement after the drubbing your posts have received lately.

      1. avatar Summer says:

        Yeah I don’t see how it’s a strawman (the gun confiscation thing) when we HAVE democratic senators getting caught on mic saying things like that they would round up and take all of the guns if they could. The ONLY reason all our guns have not been collected is that they know they CAN’T do it… yet. The best they can do is unconstitutionally target a few people at a time, but with hundreds of millions of guns in the country, no way of knowing where they all are, and a bunch of lawsuits every time they start that shit, it’s not something they could successfully do to get all the guns. And if they strong armed, people would fight. (Not all, but a lot, including some current and former LEO and some current and former military.) If THAT happened, the dollar would collapse and a chain reaction would start that affected every other country in the world whose prosperity is in some way tied to our own.

        The SECOND they can “take all the guns” without that kind of outcome, they would. Clinton would have taken them. Obama would have already taken them. Hell, W. might have taken them. (He was a statist even if a conservative on paper.)

        It’s not paranoia when they’ve been caught saying this shit.

  8. avatar NEOWA says:

    The fatboy from Jersey won’t have the balls to show up in Iowa but should he stumble he should be hit over the head with this stuff at every stop.

  9. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Wow

  10. avatar Ted says:

    My comment reposted from NJ.com:

    NJ politicians continue to rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic. We have inner city crime, a busted budget, a bankrupt transportation fund, a gigantic pension hole, and businesses leaving the state.

    Micromanaging firearms inventory/security procedures for gun dealers should be dead last on the state’s list of priorities.

    NJ is screwed if we don’t kick every life-long politician out of Trenton.

    1. avatar mk10108 says:

      George Washington turned the Revolutionary War at Trenton…

    2. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

      Let’s see here… NJ is ranked dead last as the worst state to operate a business in, it’s also one of the most expensive states in terms of living expenses. Although NJ is densely populated (especially North Jersey), crime isn’t that bad except for major cities like Newark, Paterson, Camden, Trenton, Jersey City etc. Of course none of that crime is perpetrated by law-abiding gun owners, but who cares about that. Let’s make one of the least gun-friendly states in the union even more restrictive and less appealing! Yeah, that makes sense.

  11. avatar RetMSgt in Pa. says:

    What the hell are the New Jersey State Police doing proposing laws??? It’s their job to enforce the laws, it’s the State Legislature’s job to propose laws.

    1. avatar mark_anthony_78 says:

      It’s a convoluted system that I don’t really understand fully, but there are “laws” and then there’s the “Administrative Code”.

      The legislature creates a law saying something like “assault weapons are illegal” and then the AG and State Police are the ones who define what specific models are considered assault weapons in their “code”.

      It’s a backdoor way to pretty much do whatever the hell they want.

      1. avatar Scott P says:

        Maryland does it the same way.

        Thank God I left that hellhole too.

  12. avatar PubliusS says:

    Some newbies to TTAG may miss the point of this article, NJ establishing its own database for State regulated gun registration, and why that is a big concern, and the snark about “show me your papers”…

    You can find lots of history lessons online. Here’s one, randomly chosen as it cites facts, in relatively short format:

    http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2012/12/29/back-to-the-future-what-history-teaches-about-gun-confiscations/

    Whole bunch more here, where you may have to sort through old archived articles.
    http://jpfo.org/

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      California has had handgun registration for years, and long gun registration since 1/1/14. Last year, they tried to pass a law, initially for the retroactive registration of “assault weapons” and “ghost guns,” but later including all handguns purchased before the hand gun registration law went into effect. D.C has universal registration of all firearms. I think New York does too, but I am not that familiar with their laws. Illinois has and continues to have the FOID, and I think that includes registration of some or all firearms. I suspect that Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Connecticut have registration laws as well. I also seem to recall that although it is unlawful for the feds to have a registration database, they have the ability to tap state records from those states that maintain them through the Patriot Act provisions—as has been discussed here recently with respect to Maryland access to Florida CCW licenses.

    2. avatar Summer says:

      It’s gotten to the point where I refuse to even drive through a blue state. I have family in Maryland, but that was their choice. They can come visit me if they want to see me.

  13. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    I guess there are worse places than Illinois…and Preston buy a clue.

  14. avatar mark_anthony_78 says:

    Not that they are worth much, but there’s a poll for people’s opinion on these recommendations:

    http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/01/poll_do_you_agree_with_proposed_rules_for_nj_gun_dealers.html

  15. avatar BlueBronco says:

    Krispy Kreme won’t be governor for ever so its a matter of time.

  16. avatar Ralph says:

    MA also has a registry, but it’s not called that. Under MA law, all transfers of firearms must be reported. For many years, the records were kept in cardboard boxes, but now they’re computerized.

    If it wasn’t for the presence of Smith & Wesson in Springfield, MA, and its importance to that distressed city, MA would go ultra-retard. It went full retard a long, long time ago.

    1. avatar Chris says:

      Most people don’t understand this – and it’s sad.

    2. avatar Summer says:

      I’m surprised Smith and Wesson is still there. A lot of gun manufacturers have been moving their operations to red states.

  17. avatar Parnell says:

    Just wait until the “RINO” everyone wines about is gone and we’re stuck with Sweeney or some other anti-gun Dem. That’s when the SHTF. You’ll see every stupid Cali law imposed in NJ and we will be unable to stop it because this state is the Democrat’s wet dream.

    1. avatar J says:

      +1 My grandparents had to leave Europe to escape Fascist dictatorships. I guess my time will come in 2016.
      Good-bye NJ…finally

  18. avatar bontai Joe says:

    NJ considers pellet guns, BB guns, and even home built potato guns to be firearms, and they need to be registered as such. Pistols and revolvers have a whole extra level of paper work, including any pellet or BB firing handguns. You can’t even buy a sling shot in NJ. When I left the state oh so many years ago, the local police dept had computer access to a list of every firearm I had ever purchased, including the Daisy lever action BB repeating rifle I bought my brother as a joke.

  19. avatar Eric says:

    Gov. Christie has no expectation that he will win the electoral votes of NJ in 2016. His widely publicized flirtation with Jerry Jones at Dallas Cowboys games in a result of careful political calculation. He figures his home state is a lost cause vote wise and he might as well alienate NJ. Voters as he tries to pick up donors from Cowboy nation. To which I say good friggin luck.

  20. avatar Anonymous says:

    That’s why I fabricated the house located on the dealers record of sale. I used a phriend’s address. If anyone knows anything about history, “Handen over das papers” becomes easily repeatable and abusable. This law changes nothing. The rule of the land is the 2nd Amendment which states “Shall not be infringed” in the hands of the people who can keep and bear arms, which is necessary for a free state. Another thing, make it a habit to also use throw away emails as well, and other protection.

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