Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge Story of the Day: Drop Safe Edition

Richland, PA Giant Eagle (courtesy wpxi.com)

2 injured when gun goes off at Richland Giant Eagle Pennsylvania’s triblive.com headline proclaims. “Two people suffered superficial wounds from what appeared to be pieces of ceramic tile when a gun accidentally discharged as it hit the floor of a Giant Eagle in Richland.” Drop safe much? Apparently not. Then again, I’m not quite sure what to make of this description of gun owner Gerry R. Good’s negligent discharge . . .

When officers arrived, Good immediately told them that it was his gun that fell out of a fanny pack and accidentally went off, the complaint states. The gun is registered to Good, who has a permit to carry the weapon.

“Apparently when the gun fell out of the bag and onto the floor, it fell in such a way that the barrel hit the floor and somehow the gun went off, leaving the casing and round in the barrel of the gun,” the complaint states.

Speaking of complaining, why was Mr Good arrested for this [scarcely credible] ND when so many police who have a ballistic oopsie aren’t? Just wonderin’ . . .

comments

  1. avatar Mark N. says:

    That makes absolutely no sense at all. If the round is still in the barrel, then how was the tile broken? If he dropped the gun and it fired, then it is not a negligent discharge, but a products issue. But somehow I don’t think that is what happened.

    1. avatar Vhyrus says:

      Almost sounds like he touched one off then dropped the gun to make it look like a drop fire.

  2. avatar Terry says:

    He lied. He pulled the trigger.

  3. avatar Chrispy says:

    The gun went off… but the bullet and casing didn’t leave the barrel? I don’t even know how to interpret that. Squib load??? Maybe? That would explain the slide (assuming semi-auto) not cycling and the bullet not leaving the barrel… But that doesn’t make sense if people were hurt by broken ceramic tile from the floor.

    1. avatar dwb says:

      Actually that kinda does make sense. If the slide is impeded when the pistol fires, the gun may not cycle properly. Contact pressure with the muzzle can do the same, or even stop the gun from firing. Muzzle hits floor, out of battery discharge, bullet hits floor and does not exit barrel. I can see that.

      1. avatar Clay says:

        So, how were they injured?

        1. avatar dwb says:

          Plenty in all that for ceramic tile to be sent flying.

      2. avatar Dry Sider says:

        Also, if the mass of your hand and arm are not there to have something the recoil can work against, the slide may not fully cycle.

    2. avatar Myrealname says:

      Series 70 1911, with the safety still on will keep the slide from cycling and trap the casing in the chamber.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Casing, sure, but the bullet?

        1. avatar Stinkeye says:

          It doesn’t say the bullet was still in the chamber, just that it was still in the barrel. It’s possible that the gun landed on its muzzle, inertia-fired the bullet, which hit the ceramic tile. The tile shattered, absorbing a lot of the energy, and since it was a contact shot, the bullet remained lodged in the muzzle. With no hand holding the frame still, the slide doesn’t go back all the way (a sort of no-hands limp-wrist), so the casing doesn’t eject from the chamber. That’s a one-in-a-million shot, though.

  4. avatar Bob says:

    “The gun is registered to Good”…

    Is it now? I thought were weren’t supposed to have one of those.

    You would be surprised how many people think a 4473 form IS a registration document. Which I suppose isn’t all that far from the truth.

    1. avatar Hobbez says:

      PA has handgun registration.

      1. avatar jim says:

        PA does not have handgun registration as per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4.

        “Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section only, the term “firearm” shall include any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.”

        1. avatar myrealname says:

          No, Pa definitely does have gun registration.
          The state police prefer the sophistry approach and lie about it by saying it’s not 100%, so that means it’s not “a complete” registration.
          But every single background check being done in Pa is being retained by the staties.
          They lost in court twice over this, but still refused to destroy the records cause “lol we am da law”. The third time was the charm for them, when they found a properly fascist leaning judge to agree with their scheme.

          http://www.repkrieger.com/NewsItem.aspx?NewsID=17481
          This has been going on for over a decade and a half, but somehow it’s still flying along under the radar.

        2. avatar Tom says:

          Correct, Pa does not have registration that keeps track of your firearms, nowhere on the forms is there a serial number of the firearm or description, just background checks. The only way for police to trace the weapon is to have the weapon and back trace through the factory to dealer. Works for pistols, not so well on long guns.
          The background paperwork you do fill out also stays with your gun dealer, again, it only states you passed a background check, doesn’t say you bought anything or how many. I have purchased several guns on one background check.
          Much to the dismay of Maryland, somebody has to do real police work to trace your guns here.

      2. avatar Yellow Devil says:

        I don’t know if that’s 100 percent. Several years back when I left active duty service and moved back home in PA, I applied for a CC permit and they never asked me what type of firearm I had or was planning to carry. And for people that travel to the state and CC with reciprocity agreements from another state are not required to register their firearms either.

  5. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    What, wait? The bullet didn’t leave barrel?

    So, what’s the problem here… If the round didn’t exit of the gun, then was just an expensive noise maker.

    How were people injured, did the gun hurt their feelings?

  6. avatar JT says:

    There is a lot of confusion and misinformation surrounding this incident and it isn’t clear what actually happened. The first place to report it was the website for the extremely anti-gun Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and because of the way modern journalism works, every other news outlet has copy/pasted it from there and changed a few words in a poor attempt to make it look original.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/local/north/2015/01/23/Shoppers-injured-when-gun-goes-off-in-Richland-Twp-Giant-Eagle/stories/201501230210

    They say the gun “went off” but the round in the chamber didn’t discharge. Sounds to me like the gun didn’t go off, but since someone got hurt by apparently a tile that the gun landed on when it fell breaking (which I don’t buy, they probably got startled and banged their legs on their cart or a shelf) the “journalist” decided to say it went off.

  7. avatar Vhyrus says:

    I think I got it: gun falls out, lands right on barrel face. Force of impact causes pin to move forward striking primer. Round goes off, slams into floor at end of barrel, stopping in barrel and shattering floor. Because trigger isn’t pulled, slide is locked and doesn’t cycle. Result.

    1. avatar Steve says:

      But if the powder ignites and the bullet never leaves the barrel, the pressure build up would have to go somewhere, right? This would cause the firearm to potentially explode. Something somewhere has to give…

    2. avatar dwb says:

      force of impact on the floor may also force the slide back and breech slightly open.

  8. avatar 2AMexican says:

    open carry would have prevented this.

  9. avatar Chris from IA says:

    Yet another reason why you never carry in a purse or fanny pack.

    1. avatar John W says:

      While it isn’t ideal there is nothing inherently wrong with carrying in a purse or fanny pack. As long as the gun has its own dedicated pocket and you aren’t an idiot who put other crap in there with your gun. I carry a gun in a fanny pack every day at the gym.

    2. avatar JasonM says:

      I always thought having testes and taste were good enough reasons for not carrying in a purse or fanny pack, respectively.

    3. avatar Yellow Devil says:

      Whenever I got for runs, I carry a firearm on me with a chest pack (like tactical fanny pack, but on your chest). Been doing this for awhile now, no issues thus far, and I usually run anywhere from 3 to 5 miles.

  10. avatar FoRealz? says:

    Revolver?

    Yeah, his story stinks or it’s just one of those weird – it really happened events.

    Anyway,

    Don’t fiddle wid it out in public. Applies to more than just your pee pee.

  11. avatar Nate says:

    Up here in Maine we had a deputy sheriff shoot the actual sheriff at the range and no one got in trouble over it. Yup.

    http://www.centralmaine.com/2012/10/19/kennebec-sheriff-struck-by-bullet-at-firearms-range/

  12. avatar doesky2 says:

    Every first article about a gun incident will ALWAYS be wrong to some degree…the only question is HOW MANY ways is it wrong.

    It’s obvious that the reporter knows nothing about guns or he would explained the oddity of the occurrence.

  13. avatar Ralph says:

    This is why I don’t carry a gun in a purse. I just don’t do it.

  14. avatar TX Gungal says:

    Holster or pocket carry in a pocket holster. And don’t touch your weapon unless it’s to defend yourself or others. No man purses, no fanny packs!

  15. avatar Hannibal says:

    All we know is that we don’t know.

    Drop-fires are practically impossible with modern guns… but if you get enough nitwits dropping guns eventually you’ll find the lucky guy who beats the odds.

    1. avatar UpChuck.Liberals says:

      How about if it had a heavily modified trigger? i.e. totally messed up the job and never tested it before loading it. Just a though.

  16. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    I’m with Forealz. Don’t play with your gun in public. I was entering the local Cabelas a few years ago when a women carry packages(around Christmas) dropped her little 38revolver on the cement. And laughed about it…Was it loaded? Probably…and with all the idiotic giant phone/I pads/tablets folks lug around I may just go with an old man fanny packLOL.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      Playing with your gun in public is a no no. You will end up on the sex offender registry.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Reminds me of some sage advice for young (male) trial attorneys: when in front of a jury, don’t put your hands in your pockets. And if you do, don’t play with your keys.

  17. avatar Scott says:

    All kidding aside, as concealed carry permit holders, this is not the kind of publicity we need. We take on a great deal of responsibility when we strap on a loaded weapon; it is not something to be taken lightly. How the gun fell out of the fanny pack is unclear, but maybe another form of concealment is worth considering. As stylish as a fanny pack is, an IWB holster may be a better option.

  18. avatar Buffalo Bob says:

    Carrying your pistol in a damn fanny pack is the problem! My as well have left it in the car since you would not get it out fast enough if you really needed it.

  19. avatar Tony says:

    “Apparently when the gun fell out of the bag and onto the floor, it fell in such a way that the barrel hit the floor and somehow the gun went off, leaving the casing and round in the barrel of the gun,”

    2 questions; how do you fire a shot but the round doesn’t leave the gun, and 2) how is it that the casing is in the barrel? Even if it’s a squib load, how does the casing end up down the barrel? Something smells about this, and it “ain’t” the smell of gun powder……..

  20. avatar Bryan Young says:

    Keep in mind that nearly all discharges from dropped firearms are caused by trying to catch the gun, and inadvertently pulling the trigger. I’d say that’s what happened here, with the trigger being pulled just as the muzzle hit the floor, preventing the round from exiting the barrel.

  21. avatar Mark Peters says:

    I wonder if it was one of the early production Ruger LCPs. Ruger had a recall on them because they could go off if dropped, this could have been one that never got sent back and fixed.

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