Question of the Day: What’s Your Definition of a [Gun] Optimist?

CrossBreed Speedloader Case (courtesy ammoland.com)

“Do you carry a revolver?” Crossbreed Holsters’ ammoland.com-borne presser asks. “Then you also need to carry extra ammo!” it proclaims, not without reason. “The reduced ammo capacity of revolvers makes it more likely that you’ll need to reload in a hurry, and the best way to do that is by using a speedloader.” I’m thinking New York reload. Anyway . . . “How do you carry one so that it’s both hidden and easy to access? With the CrossBreed Speedloader Case. The case is designed to firmly hold the speedloader centered over the belt for utmost concealability, yet release it instantly into your hand for fast reloading.” As Elvis used to sing, that’s when your heartache begins. In fact, I think it was gun guru John Farnham who said that someone who thinks they can speedload a revolver during a gunfight is the definition of an optimist. What’s your gun-flavored definition of an optimist?

comments

  1. avatar RT says:

    Anyone who thinks the NFA stands a chance in hell of being repealed.

    1. avatar blackspike2710 says:

      Better than laying back and accepting it.

    2. avatar Neil Wix says:

      With that attitude it certainly never will…. #selffulfillingprophecy

    3. avatar Roll says:

      Think we could get a gunfriendly Prez to issue an executive order? Lol

      1. avatar RT says:

        I’ll believe that when me s**t turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet…..

        I’ve written 2 trees worth of letters(and still do) to my congress critter, and representative about getting it repealed. Or suppressors, SBRs, and SBSs removed at the very least. Guess what? It’s still there. Until the NRA, SAF, and GOA take up the fight, it’s all optimistic thinking.

        1. avatar Jake Tallman says:

          And interest in suppressors and SBR’s has been skyrocketing, as have rates of gun ownership. The whole thing being repealed is a stretch, yes, because of the machine gun aspect. But as far as getting SBR’s and suppressors removed, that’s really not that unlikely. Frankly, given the way the winds are blowing, I expect that within a decade or two, that will happen.

    4. avatar David P. says:

      NFA being repealed would be tough unless through the legal system. But pieces of it, I’m particular surpressors, is getting closer and closer to being mainstream during the next couple election cycles.

  2. avatar Scrubula says:

    Especially since concealable revolvers generally have 5 rounds (Ruger LCR?) they already seem like last ditch efforts when you can’t comfortably conceal a semi auto…

    Something is better than nothing, but using a revolver is already optimistic.

    1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

      “Boards don’t hit back…”
      -Bruce Lee

      Steel doesn’t shoot back.

      1. avatar Anonymoose says:

        As fast as Jerry Miculek shoots, I don’t think anything would have a chance to shoot back. He could put 12 .357s into them as fast as they can blink.

        1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

          Jerry is animal, no doubt about it.

          But, what are you basing that comment on? You have knowledge of his prowess under fire?

          Games are different than real life.

        2. avatar Vhyrus says:

          Under stress, you revert to your level of training.

          His level of training is somewhere between assassin from ‘Wanted’ and God.

        3. avatar 2Alpha says:

          The issue here is i dont believe he would miss enough shots to have to reload. It’s like asking if Chuck Norris can change boots before round house kicking someone a second time. The answer: he wont have to.

    2. avatar Howard moore says:

      if we all could shoot like him we wouldn’t need to reload

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        If we all could shoot like him we wouldn’t need 50 percent of law enforcement…

  3. avatar LarryinTX says:

    Answer is obvious-anyone who does not carry.

    1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

      This.

      Nothing is be optimistic. Carrying any gun is being prepared. Arguing for or against the different types is just arguing to what level you choose to be prepared.

    2. avatar Tex300BLK says:

      We have a winner…

      appropriate substitutes are people who keep their defensive guns not in their immediate vicinity, ie upstairs, on the coffee table in the other room, in the closet, out of reach etc, and/or locked up. When I say locked up I mean in a bonafide safe/ security cabinet; basically anything that requires a key or fine motor skills to gain access too or anything that requires your digits to be clean and/or all attached.

  4. avatar Shire-man says:

    Anyone who believes any politician cares about their rights (any rights) more than about winning an election.

    1. avatar JasonM says:

      There are quite a few politicians who do…they just rarely win elections.

      1. avatar Accur81 says:

        Amen to that. Unfortunately, we have our affirmative action / give me free sh!t voters to blame for our current POTUS. Hillary might win in 2016 just because people think it’s time we have a female president. Ugh.

        1. avatar Jake Tallman says:

          Yep. Gotta love the irony of that. The dipshit feminists will vote for Hilary to make a statement, even though she is a woman who literally couldn’t give an answer as to the biggest thing she accomplished as secretary of state, and the only reason she is where she is is because of her husband.

  5. avatar Spaceman Brown says:

    Anyone who owns a defensive firearm but refuses to get training.

    1. avatar Accur81 says:

      Plenty of old farts have blown away young whippersnappers with nary a day of tacticool training. While I certainly respect training, there have been many successful DGUs without it.

    2. avatar TexGal says:

      “Anyone who owns a defensive firearm but refuses to get training”
      Anyone who owns a defensive firearm but refuses to get training and regular pratice with that defensive firearm.

  6. avatar PeterK says:

    24 inch ars, haha.

  7. avatar Ralph says:

    An optimist is anyone who puts on condom before he heads out to the local pickup bar.

    A gun optimist is someone who invites Shannon Watts to the local gun range while dressed as above.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      Are you hitting on Dirk’s fantasy woman?

      1. avatar WV Cycling says:

        *ba dum tsssh!*

  8. avatar JasonM says:

    I challenge the idea that the speed loader is the fastest way to load a revolver. Moon clips are much faster.

    1. avatar DJ9 says:

      Moon clips are faster, but they are also relatively fragile when compared to a normal speedloader. The smallest bend in a moon clip can bind the action of a revolver if it is used, either causing a major increase in DA trigger pull weight or preventing the revolver from indexing/firing at all.

      If you carry moon-clipped ammo for defensive use, you have to protect the clips from bending or dust-bunny-type contamination with a closed rigid carry case, and those cases are significantly slower to access than the traditional open-top competition-style pouch, negating much (if not all) of the moon clips’ speedloading advantage.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        Anyone make Moon Clips in spring steel?

  9. avatar John Boch says:

    One who brings a derringer to a gunfight.

    Or a NAA mini-revolver.

  10. avatar Chrispy says:

    I think the best purpose for a CC revolver is as a BUG. I will have an LCR for the pocket when I settle on a caliber, and the funding for such things…

    Having 5 rounds of .38 +p or .357 in that I would think will allow me enough time to get to my primary EDC option which rides IWB, as opposed to having to train to rely on a speedloader or moon clip in a “time is of the essence” situation.

    Truth be told though, I’m a believer in the statistic that most defense encounters are over with less than a half dozen rounds fired total, but it never hurt to be prepared for more. A gun optimist is someone with a 9mm Glock sporting two 30 round backup mags, with 17+1 in it already… or is that a pessimist?

    1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

      There are advantages to carrying a revolver as your primary EDC. They go bang every time, period. They don’t jam. They don’t jab you in the ribs when you sit in your car. They don’t go out of battery when pressed into an attackers ribs. If you strike a bad primer you just have to pull the trigger again. They are generally more accurate and .357 mag is more powerful than any of the auto rounds except 10mm. The disadvantages don’t start until you’ve fired your first 5 or 6 rounds. Statistically the odds of needing a 7th round of .357 are extremely low.

      1. avatar Chrispy says:

        I agree with you 1000%, which is why I will be adding one to my carry options probably in the spring or summer!

      2. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        I couldn’t think of anything that nobody else had already said, until I read yours.

        My gun-flavored definition of optimism is the belief that revolvers go bang every time, period.

        1. avatar Robert Farago says:

          I had an internal lock fail on a Smith & Wesson 686. Gun locked up.

          http://youtu.be/TsIWXd_9xPE

        2. avatar Chrispy says:

          Well played gentlemen, well played!

          I’d never seen a revolver have that type of malfunction without an ammo issue to blame.

        3. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

          With all respect to RF and his Smith & Wessons, Ruger revolvers DO go bang every time. Relatively speaking.

        4. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

          OK, so what was the failure?

        5. avatar jwm says:

          Pay attention next time you’re at the range. How many semi’s will jam or malfunction on your visit? Now how many revolvers will? Keep score.

          I’ve been doing it for 50 years, give or take. Yes, revolvers malfunction. But semi’s have them beat hands down in number and variety of stoppages.

          Right here on TTAG we’ve seen several stories of semi’s firing one shot and then going out of battery because of contact with the target. Zimmerman, anyone?

          Find me a verifiable case of a revolver being grabbed and jammed by the intended target.

      3. avatar Accur81 says:

        Revolvers can fail. A DAO revolver can be jammed by clamping a hand over the cylinder. It’s definitely tough to jam a DA or SA revolver.

        1. avatar Vhyrus says:

          I have heard at least one story of a cop saving his own life by jamming a finger in front of the hammer of a DA revolver, preventing it from firing.

        2. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

          Any mechanical device CAN fail. But if going bang every time is high on your priorities list for an EDC a revolver scores better in that respect than an auto. That said, many autos are very dependable.

          Vhyrus, I think that was a scene from lethal weapon, where Murtaugh thought Riggs was pretending to be suicidal so he got him to stick the barrel of his revolver in his mouth and stuck his thumb under the hammer at the last second. That whole series would have been over fast had Murtaugh been issued a Glock.

  11. avatar preston says:

    a pro 22lr advocate. all this “you can kill any game with a 22, big or small” is like saying i can pull a yacht with a gremlin cuz hey its a got 4 wheels and a transmission. Thinking you are going to be able to get a headshot on every single thing you shoot at with a 22 (which is what it would take to kill big game with it) is ludicrous/optimistic. If 22 was SO universal, THERE WOULD BE NO OTHER CALIBERS!!!

    1. avatar Paul G. says:

      Gun optimist…..a survivalist who thinks he is good to go with a 10/22 and a 550 bulk pack of federal HV ammo.

    2. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      Well it can’t be just any old 22lr, silly, if you’re going after big game, like rhino or moose. You’re going to need .22lr shotshells for a job like that, preferably #10 shot. Duh.

  12. avatar Dash says:

    Anyone who carries without one in the tube.

    1. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

      That’s no optimism, that’s fear. All the reasons are usually based on being scared of a negligent discharge.

    2. avatar Scott says:

      My co-worker, who served in the IDF, says they were instructed to never carry on in the pipe. Because it only took a fraction of a second to rack the slide while unholstering the gun and bringing it in to a firing position.

      My response was….lol wut?

      1. avatar Tex300BLK says:

        Google “Israeli Draw”, when practiced to the point of muscle memory/habit the difference is negligible, plenty of videos showing this. If you carry concealed your hand is already 98% of the way to where it needs to be when you sweep your cover out of the way. The key is PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE until you could practically do it in your sleep, and then practice some more and as often as required to never forget or get soft. Unfortunately most people who carry condition 3 do it because they are too affraid to carry a live round in the pipe, so it’s unlikely that they practice even 1/100th as much as would be necessary to proficiently employ an IDF or Modified IDF draw under duress.

        1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          Assuming that hand is free.

          IDF mission is different than DGU mission, where you might well be injured (well, so might IDF) or already engaged fighting empty-hand with the support hand.

          There have been LOTS of DGU’s captured on video that show this in practice, too..cases where this IDF draw thing would have likely got the DGU-er killed.

          One example of such a case is Zimmerman.

          Illustrates an important point: there is no SINGLE answer for all scenarios/use cases.

          So, my definition of a gun optimist is anyone that truly thinks they have it all figured out for 100% of the possible things that can come their way.

        2. avatar Tile floor says:

          And what happens if your off hand is out of service, or injured? Or your dominant hand for that matter? Now you’re wasting time racking the slide on your belt or shoe while time slips on by. No matter how much you practice it’s not going to be as direct or efficient as carrying with one in the tube

      2. avatar Nagurski says:

        I’m not worried about speed so much as having to use both hands. I like the idea of having my left arm free so that I can push off of the attacker or hold him at a distance momentarily while I grab my gun.

  13. avatar LC Judas says:

    Anyone who has no plans of how to draw from the ground or other restrained position. News flash, the bad guy won’t let you hit a perfect draw stroke, go Isosoles…then Mozambique at your leisure.

  14. avatar Scott says:

    People like Dr. Ben Carson who think you can stop an advancing attacker by shooting them in the leg.

    Yea, I’m done with that guy.

  15. avatar DJ9 says:

    What’s my gun-flavored definition of an optimist? A company that seriously thinks that its speedloader case will “firmly hold the speedloader centered over the belt for utmost concealability…” when used on the belt of an average American, with the almost-inevitable muffin-top bulge forcing the case outward so it “prints” like a cotton-clad supermodel’s nipple on a blustery cold winter’s day.

  16. avatar Anonymoose says:

    Anyone who carries a cartridge smaller than .45ACP. /trolling

    1. avatar Ing says:

      Anyone who believes having 9 rounds is better than having 17 at his disposal.
      🙂

      1. avatar Nick D says:

        Glock 41 w/ Pierce mag extenders. 15+1 rounds, .45 ACP, Hornady Critical Duty.

        Reduces looters, burglars, muggers and other flavors of jerks into nothing more than a nasty stain on the ground.

        1. avatar S.CROCK says:

          Or xdm or Glock with 16, 17, 19, or 33 + 1 in 147 grain HST.
          / trolling

    2. avatar Royal Tony says:

      .45 ACP?? Why so girly? My EDC is a Contender in .45-70. /toughguy

      1. avatar Anonymoose says:

        >not carrying a BFR in .50 Alaskan

  17. avatar Rog Uinta says:

    Anyone who carries a caliber that doesn’t start with “4”.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      See: Jared Reston’s first gunfight. 😉

  18. avatar forrest says:

    Anyone who carries a gun but not a knife. No, you shouldn’t ONLY bring a knife to a gun fight, but what do you do when those 5 (10, 13, ect.) rounds have gone down range and not stopped the threat? What do you do when the threat is close enough to physically grab you? Good luck drawing and firing when someone is punching you in the eye or grabbing your wrist… At that range; a knife will do more damage, faster.

    Fox 599 or nothing!

  19. avatar Another Robert says:

    Someone who carries a Jennings/Bryco/Jimenez Arms for self-defense?

  20. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    People who talk about being “prepared” for civil unrest, riots or whatever, but only having bullets, without any beans or band aids.

    You’re better off having one rifle, ammo, food and water on hand, instead of having 10 rifles and nothing to eat or drink.

  21. avatar Mediocrates says:

    for me? trying to hit a target that’s not tied down or incapacitated. but that’s why I carry a fifty round drum!

  22. avatar Johannes P says:

    Someone who thinks they can beat the guy with a revolver just because it’s a revolver.

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      Especially when some of the revolvers now in circulation are chambered for rounds semi-autos can’t handle.

  23. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    People who talk about being “prepared” for civil unrest, riots or whatever, but only having bullets, without any beans or band aids.

    You’re better off having one rifle, ammo, food and water on hand, instead of having 10 rifles and nothing to eat or drink. Even tough guys gotta eat.

    1. avatar Vhyrus says:

      I’d rather be the guy with guns and no food then the guy with food and no guns.

      1. avatar Texas Anomaly says:

        I would think the obvious answer is to be neither.

      2. avatar Just Joe says:

        Really? Are you going to go on raiding parties when SHTF? What happens when you come across a well-defended home with food, water, and plenty of guns and ammo? You starve or die of dehydration (naturally, or via bullet wound), that’s what.

  24. avatar Independent George says:

    Someone who applies for a concealed carry permit in NYC?

    1. avatar Marcus (Aurelius) Payne says:

      That made me chortle

  25. avatar IdahoPete says:

    Anyone who walks into a gun store and says “I’d like to buy a few bricks of .22LR, please.”

    1. avatar SteveInCO says:

      To creatively misuse a famous line:

      “Hey pal, just what you see.”

  26. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    Someone who thinks that 6 rounds of Double Tap 158gr. .357 magnum isn’t enough to bring a fight to a screeching halt would have to be pretty optistic, if he’s on the wrong end of the revolver. Being prepared and equipped to handle 99.9999% of potential threats is hardly overly optimistic. The first 6 shots are by far the most important.

    1. avatar Jake Tallman says:

      Someone who thinks they will have 100% accuracy in a combat situation

      1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

        There’s no amount of ammo that’s enough if you can’t keep some semblance of a cool head under fire. But most criminals will scatter before the 6th round whizzes by their heads.

  27. avatar Another Robert says:

    How about, someone who believes the police can protect him/her with _their_ guns?

  28. avatar Ralph says:

    Anyone who carries a .9mm.

    1. avatar Timmy! says:

      Or a .45mm

  29. avatar Accur81 says:

    An optimistic is someone who thinks that Democrats will respect gun rights without being forced to do so via a lawsuit or court order.

    1. avatar SteveInCO says:

      Hell, anyone who thinks they’ll pay attention to a court order (beyond, of course, figuring out how to dodge it).

  30. avatar Nagurski says:

    I bought a Ruger LCP (online) recently and I decided I could use some .380 before it got here. I went to the local gun store, two separate Walmarts, Gander Mountain, Dick’s and a pawn shop. I optimistically assumed that if I could find .22 locally, then the same would be true for .380.

  31. avatar Matt says:

    Well color me an optimist then since I carry a .357 J Frame with 2 speed loaders.

    I do also carry two revolvers sometimes…

    I without a doubt feel under-gunned but I am working within the confines of the law (CT) and my (personal) armory.

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      Or as Jimmy Cirillo used to call it: “The New York reload…”

    2. avatar jwm says:

      You’re only undergunned if you have no gun. Revolver vs. semi is a waste of time and effort to argue. 99.9% of real dgu’s involving actual shots fired will be over before your 5-6 shot revolver is empty.

      Having a 15+ round magazine with 2 spares just means the shooter gets to sweat where all those spray and pray rounds went until no collateral damage shows up.

      The gun, regardless of type or caliber is just a tool. The caliber of the person carrying it is much more important.

    3. avatar SteveInCO says:

      I would wager RF and/or the revolver naysayers would recognize a difference between carrying a revolver because that’s all current law allows for where you are, vs. carrying a revolver and being happy about it. So no, you aren’t an “optimist” for carrying a revolver, though (perhaps) others are.

      1. avatar Matt says:

        SteveInCO
        I get your point for certain, I’d still say I’m happy about it overall. That is, I was carrying a N Frame with speed loaders long before our new laws happened.

        Obviously I’d be happier if no restriction was placed on me by the state. So I guess that qualifies me as a realistic optimist?

        Now to address feeling undergunned. For me, its not so much the capacity itself, what we loose in capacity is made up for in power, but the reload speed and the extra manipulation required if a reload is needed that does it for me. But as you point out JWM, most DGUs don’t even get into the reload space of a revolver.

        Fortunately I shoot my J Frame excellently, a 3 inch group at 21 feet one handed… I’m not sure where I’m going with that but maybe I’m just bragging 🙂

        1. avatar jwm says:

          “No brag, just fact.”

  32. avatar David P. says:

    Anyone who carries without a flashlight. Or doesn’t invest anything in their health.

  33. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    Someone who thinks that the .223 Remington is a “big game hunting round.”

    1. avatar Texas Anomaly says:

      Well, I don’t care what you say, I would think that with the proper gun and shoot placement your could easy take down a mammoth. I would go with a M249 light machine gun with a 200 round belt. I think of it more like a shotgun than a rifle. 🙂

      1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        If that’s your idea of “hunting,” then you’d probably best steer clear of doing such things, because you’ll find that no state in the nation allows hunting with full-auto and you’ll be spending some time in court.

  34. avatar Royal Tony says:

    I’d say a gun optimist would be anyone who bought a Remington R51.

  35. avatar TheAce says:

    I’d say anyone who believes that the only gun they need for defense is strapped to someone in uniform and a phone call away.

    When seconds count…

  36. avatar Dave Lewis says:

    I’m old enough to remember when the good guys really did carry and use speed loaders – and they won the gun fight. I even knew an old timer who reloaded from belt loops in a fight against a guy who was armed with a Luger. The old timer threw the first six rounds down range at the bad guy who was hiding behind a 68 Chevy just to keep his head down. Then the old timer reloaded and put three .38 special Super Vels into the bad guy and ended the fight. Now for my definition of the optimist –

    The guy who thinks that he can walk into Walmart any day of the week and find CCI Stingers for a nickel a round.

    The guy who thinks that he can find any sort of pistol powder for sale.

    The guy who thinks that he can get a carry permit in the People’s Republic of New Jersey/

    The guy who thinks that any Democrat these days will agree with the liberal writer George Orwell and say that the rifle is the weapon of the people.

  37. avatar Calvin says:

    Anyone that carries a handgun is an optimist. If I really thought I was going to be in a gunfight I’d have something heavier at the ready.

  38. avatar Mr Wolf says:

    Statistics say most gun fights will b over in 2 to 3 rounds. Aside from that I’m banking on the fact that your semi will malfunction b4 I run my 7 shot 357 magnum dry and need more ammo. I’m also fast w a speed loader. As fast as w my semi? No. But only about one second slower. Life’s all about compromise……. If he,d only been wearing a seat belt vs…. He burned because of said seat belt. Pick and practice

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