Guns of the Australian Terrorist Attack

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The seige at the Lindt cafe in Sydney Australia is over. Here are some firearms images from the incident, many of which are from  Russia’s dofiga.net, which, by the way, is definitely not a work or family-friendly website . . .

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Police Hostage Situation Developing In Sydney

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comments

  1. avatar Kory says:

    Wow, those are well armed terrorists and they even have Police uniforms!

    Oh, I’m sorry, those are the good guys? Why the hell do they need to cover their faces and wear all black then? It isn’t cold there as it is now summer.

    Sorry, I thought this was a post of the terrorists’ guns.

    1. avatar Robert W. says:

      They are not even police. These guys are Australian SASR, equal to navy SEALs. Their position necessitates Op-Sec.

      Although I do understand the desire for any hostage rescue team to cover up. If this truly was a terrorist attack, I wouldn’t want to have my face plastered all over the news right after I shot a terrorist cell member. The likelihood is minutely small, but I would not count out personal attacks in retaliation.

      Now, dressing in high speed, low drag ninja suits in the middle of a riot (cough Ferguson cough) is horrible practice, as people should see you as another human being just attempting to retain safety and order, not a faceless thug.

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        I’ve seen two comments, one here and one on the WSJ, claiming they are SASR. That makes no sense to me, as each of them is wearing uniforms with clear-as-day New South Wales Police unit patches and other insignia. SASR simply doesn’t wear uniforms so marked.

        As for identifying participants, these guys do not have the “eyes-and-nose triangle” obscured. That is all that is required in order to pull up a face from the net’s mother lode of photos, narrowing it to a very small group, likely only one of which lives in NSW, AU.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Special ops personal operating domestic environments in the UK and other Commonwealth countries have been known to wear civil police uniforms for OPSEC reasons.

        2. avatar ropingdown says:

          I’m slightly on the high side of well-informed about pseudo-local uniform wear. It is never permitted domestically. For foreign consumption sure. I’ve even taken part in such an event (transporting the people, not being them, and yes, very long ago, laugh). Our equivalent military people domestically can “consult” within the U.S., but only in civies, and only consult. If they are doing more than mere consulting, they have to be in uniform. I doubt it is any different in AU.

          Everybody has the gear. Helmets and clothing tell you nothing. Patches tell you lots. Both Australia and the UK have activated military specials for domestic counter-terrorist events. In the UK, as the world saw during the Iranian Embassy siege in London (1980), the SAS wore their unmarked gear, not that of the London Metropolitan Police. The laws are even stricter these days, at least in the U.S. and U.K.

          Put another way, what on earth makes the comment writers think the shooters are SASR, in spite of the Prime Minister’s direct assertions to the contrary? He himself said they were NSWP and Commonwealth Police (like FBI HRT). I”ll try to up my game! What is SASR on these guys?

        3. avatar tdiinva says:

          You are less well informed than you think but to inform you I would have to violate a non-disclosure agreement. This isn’t the US. They have different rules down there in the Australia.

        4. avatar Ross says:

          There would have been SASR mixed in with the NSW Police, and they would have been wearing the same uniforms.

        5. avatar ropingdown says:

          tdiinva, now that O’Neill has ditched his agreements, couldn’t you just spell it out a bit? Laugh.

          Call me a skeptic, though. I don’t believe there is skill set missing between the local and national police level. The NSW police would have the better Lebanese Arabic skill and Muslim mediation available, if needed. At the national level they train as a team. How would that be helped by sticking in a few specials at the last minute?

          But even that is beside the point: I’ve asked what (in the dress, equipage, or other indicia) leads anyone to say “they’re SASR.” It isn’t the default conclusion.

      2. avatar N8thecowboy says:

        I personally don’t think I would want a bunch of protesters recognizing me at lunch the day after. And I doubt any of them would consider anyone with a riot shield and a gun as a human being anyway. I could be wrong though.

        1. avatar John M. says:

          The face coverings project fear and weakness, not power and strength. They are indicating that they are afraid of Islamists recognizing them and targeting them. Why are they sending this message?

        2. avatar JJ48 says:

          @John M.

          You’re saying a samurai’s mempo projected “fear and weakness”?!

        3. avatar John M. says:

          @JJ48: I know from nothing about samurais. But I’m puzzled as to why they’d want to look like they’re afraid of Islamists on worldwide TV. If I were in charge of the operation, I’d make them take them all off. And then I’d go on camera and tell all of this guy’s buddies that they’ll get what this guy got if they come and want to try some more.

          And then I’d legalize modern firearms and CCW in Australia.

          But back here in reality, the Aussie cops look scared of Islamists. If I were an Islamist, I’d be putting this one in the W column and planning the next op.

      3. avatar Brian says:

        You can be a fan boy of SASR all you like but commenting that they were involved shows your ignorance on a number of levels. For starters, SASRs TAG-West have not had the primary responsibility for domestic recovery operations for the better part of a decade. That role sits squarely with 2Cdo’s TAG-East.

        Secondly, they were not involved (either TAG East or West that is).

        Neither were the AFP’s tactical team (SRG), though they were stood too, along with Queensland SERT in case it went on for any longer as TOU had other teams across the State involved in other less newsworthy jobs (re: high risk arrests and search warrants). They’d simply have sent a team or two down as stand down support.

        The AFP, though it likes to think so, is NOT like the US FBI nor is its tactical team anything like the HRT. They AFP do not fly in and take jurisdiction of incidents in Australia unless it was theirs to begin with, which isn’t often as most matters are State or dealt with at State level even with a federal angle.

        NSWPF TOU were the only tactical team to be involved and make entry and rescue the hostages. It’s as simple as that.

        Anyone who thinks this was going to become a domestic CT recovery job requiring ADF assets in the form of TAG-E doing the job really needs to take their hand off it and sit back and look at what the job was at the end of the day…that is….an every day hostage situation simply beefed up by the fact he was a bit mad making ISIS claims and the media lapped it up.

    2. avatar Anonymous says:

      Operators, operating, operationally.

    3. avatar C says:

      Come off it. You’re just looking for an excuse to hate on cops.

    4. avatar Dylan says:

      Hi Kory, the reason that NSW Police TOU (tactical operations unit) are required to hid their identity is to protect themselves and their families against retribution attacks. These guys run counter-terrorism operations, hostage situations, armed offenders etc and the risk of revenge attacks on them and their families is very high, hence high profile criminals/terrorists and their associates can’t be allowed to learn of officers identity.

      Black uniforms is so they can camouflage in an urban environment. Other tactical units around the world and in Australia wear dark blue, grey and often dark green as well. The purpose is so they can blend into their environment. In this case an urban environment.

      Hope this clears up some things for you

      1. avatar Steve Day says:

        Because Carbon Black blends so well against the light-grey concrete and brightly colored storefronts?

        I could understand their choice if the operators were operating their operations in total darkness using NVGs.

        Wolf Grey is a much more appropriate uniform color for such units.

        1. avatar 2hotel9 says:

          Hell, dressing like soccer moms, hipsters and cubicle drones would be the most effective in that operational area of operating!

    5. avatar force recon says:

      They are police SF operators their identities are hidden from public to protect them and their families from terrorist and criminals, that is why they are wearing balaclavas..

      1. avatar 2hotel9 says:

        Ya know, hunting down and killing terrorists is a far better method of protection than creating a secret police organization. Funny how police don’t want to do that. Just look at this muslim clown in question right now, long record of jihadi connections, murdered his wife, recruited people into his “cell”. And yet all this time he was free to walk the streets because cops are scared. Who, specifically, is winning this? Police are far more interested in building secret, loosely controlled “units” which they turn against the citizens, all the while letting terrorists do as they please. Hmmm, thats a hard call. Do know who is loosing, the citizens, we are getting f*cked from both directions.

  2. avatar freakshowSMVM says:

    Looks like the aussies are magpul fans

    1. avatar Ebenezer Bowman says:

      Nothing like free advertising. At least they have good taste

  3. avatar Mark says:

    They look like “operators”..

    //not a compliment.

    1. avatar Dylan K. says:

      they look like “operators” because they are operators… Australia doesn’t have a posse comitatus act in the same way we do.

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        Australia has the Australian Federal Police. Within that agency a bit over 200 personnel are part of the very specialized Tactical Response Groups within the larger Special Response Groups. Some units of TRG are the equivalent of FBI HRT. Most of these are stationed in Canberra and Sydney. Note that the AU Central Bank is HQ’d two blocks from the Lindt Chocolate Cafe.

    2. avatar Roll says:

      They want what they think is the best equipment/tools for the job. Nothing wrong with that.

    3. avatar Anonymous says:

      It not just about “operating” it is also about the operator coolness factor. What other reasons would they need balaclava’s in the middle of the summer heat?

      1. avatar FoRealz? says:

        Why?

        1. If made of Nomex or similar material they would be fire resistant. Which might be handy.
        2. Not wanting your face all over news where anyone in the world can see it and identify you as “the guy” that shot the terrorist(s).
        3. Chicks dig it.

        1. avatar Grasshopper says:

          “#3: Chicks dig it” is correct. If chicks dig it, that gets guys’ testosterone up, and upped testosterone allows an operator to operate operationally. And I’m only kidding a little.

  4. avatar stateisevil says:

    Now this is interesting. It seems that the Australian government believes that you can defend yourself with whatever tools you deem necessary if you work for……..them? They also seem to believe that a good guy with a gun is the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun. So then I don’t understand…..why are their tax cows not allowed to defend themselves? Is it that tax cows can’t be armed on the tax farm?

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      Well, yes. I’m surprised anyone would even ask.

    2. avatar Duke of Sharon says:

      No, you may not defend yourself with whatever you deem necessary. You may assert the will of the state with weapons provided by your fellow citizen.

    3. avatar KCK says:

      As you know, on the farm, some pigs are more equal than others.

      1. avatar An English Person says:

        True think detected…

  5. avatar IdahoPete says:

    The Australian café killer was Man Haron Monis, a self-styled cleric also known as Sheikh Haron. Born in Iran as Manteghi Bourjerdi , about 50 years old. Came to Australia in 1996 as a refugee. Monis is known to police. He sent hate mail to families of Australian soldiers killed in Afghanistan. Haron Monis was charged w/ accessory to murder of ex-wife last year. Charged w/ sexual assault of woman this year. Currently on bail.

    And remember, we cannot judge all Muslims based on the actions of a few tens of millions of them. However, it is perfectly fine to judge all American gun owners based on the actions of one mentally deranged nutcase in Connecticut.

    1. avatar Gtdad says:

      Best comment I have read in a while +1 and the American population

    2. avatar SouthernPatriot says:

      Great post. Succinct and poignant, but most of all–Truthful.

    3. avatar Ethan762 says:

      THANK YOU. Very well put. The sheer lunacy of the reasoning is apparent to anyone with their eyes even halfway open.

  6. avatar Mark says:

    Attacks have been tried here in Oregon. Good guy with the gun stopped it.

  7. avatar Duke of Sharon says:

    Look at all the state owned men, machines, and hardware needed to deal with this idiot. Any chance that the value of items pictures is less than $1M USD?. If one to three of the hostages had $400 SP101s, on them this would have been over at about 1/10000th of the cost. Or, if it were simply known that one to three of the hostages might have been armed, it may have never happened.

    Of course, this is not a bug, this is a feature. These hired men, the companies that make the machines and hardware, and the army of tax collectors who support them, all support the state.

    1. avatar SouthernPatriot says:

      So sad. So true.

    2. avatar JWTaylor says:

      The total value of every firearm and displayed personal gear (not counting vehicles) is under $40k. And that is giving away a lot to comms gear. Total value of firearms is well under $20k. Still, your point is valid.

      1. avatar An English Person says:

        You are obviously blissfully unaware of the price of even an entry level and unaccessorised Accuracy International rifle… built like tanks, price tag to match.

        1. avatar JWTaylor says:

          Got one in 338. Paid a total of 7.5k for it. It is worth every penny, but it is by no means on the high end of precision rifles.

        2. avatar Lance says:

          That is actually an AI chassis with a 700 (or clone) action. Still not cheap though…

        3. avatar JWTaylor says:

          Lance, I was hoping it was just a barrel change. After all, if all you have to do is carry it from the truck to the next block, why not get a heavier profile? But you are probably right, and it is just a drop in.
          I’ve got a custom made blueprinted 338WM in an AI chassis as well, and it outshoots the store bought AI338LM every day. After owning and shooting them both, I still can’t figure out the popularity of the 338LM, unless someone else is paying for my ammo. And what you can save on ammo can buy you a more accurate rifle that you can put a lot more rounds through.

    3. avatar BDub says:

      I would even bet that fewer civilians would be dead if that were the case.

  8. avatar Sean N says:

    So…

    Just how much crap do you need on a rifle that you will be shooting no more than 50 yards?

    1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Enough to spend the budget you’re given.
      If you don’t spend it, they’ll think you don’t need it.

  9. avatar Rob Aught says:

    Echoing the other commentators, but it seems like the Aussies are very well-armed for a society that says citizens don’t need guns.

    They may indeed by the Kangaroo Spec Forces, but even so it seems they believe the appropriate response to this crisis is to be well-armed. Hmmm…good guys with guns dispatched to deal with bad guy with gun. I thought I was told that was silly.

  10. avatar BDub says:

    Aussie popo loves dem some ‘cessories!

  11. avatar Matt W says:

    Aren’t those the same guys that were in Ferguson a few months back?

    Oh no wait. They’re actually trying to end a situation not instigate it… my bad.

    But you can easily see the mistaken identity.

  12. avatar 33AD says:

    Quite a bit of hardware considering there is no risk once they effectively outlawed individual firearms ownership.

    I never understood how people can be for gun control but then still believe that cops/Feds/whatever still need them.

    Sheep.

    1. avatar Duke of Sharon says:

      It’s simple. They are not anti gun, they are pro state, and therefore anti human.

      Collectivists rarely identify their true aims.

    2. avatar Wilko says:

      With respect your comment that “there is no risk once they effectively outlawed individual firearms ownership” is incorrect.

      Firearms are not “outlawed” here in Australia. With the appropriate license one can own and use anything here short of anything full auto.

      The laws that changed after the then Prime Minister of Australia John Howard “gun buyback” (their words not mine) in 1996 were all about making it harder to obtain the correct license, thus making it less desirable for people to want to take the time/trouble/money expense to obtain said license…..
      After I was paid extremely well for handing over my semi auto shotguns and rifles, I made sure I replaced them plus 1 additional firearm – there ya go Mr. Howard.

      Unfortunately we are restricted to pistol ammo with a bore diameter of less that 0.40 – but I can tell you that .38 Super works just fine for any needs down here…

      1. avatar Ross says:

        After I was paid extremely well for handing over my semi auto shotguns and rifles,

        You Sir should never have given up a single one of them.

        1. avatar Wilko says:

          Well Ross that’s easier to say than to do. You weren’t here and have no idea what we did to do our best to keep them.

          The rest of my original post corrrected an error and explained how we were able to mitigate the situation as best we could. Nothing more to say.

      2. avatar Ross says:

        Wilco,

        I was there, I moved to Australia in Late 1996 and as such was unable to purchase the long guns I would have wanted as the ban was in place. I had a number of friends that refused to comply and hid their stuff for a rainy day.

        1. avatar Wilko says:

          Hi Ross,

          I too know of a few that saved for that rainy day……
          After the dust settled for a bit I got my auto shotties back for target use at the clay clubs. Of course, they never go into the field as that would be breaking the law…

      3. avatar 33AD says:

        You missed the heavy dose of American sarcasm in my post.

        If I thought that firearm bans promote public safety, not sure I would be on this site.

  13. avatar S.CROCK says:

    What did the bad guy use? Thats always the big question.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      There has been no further comment other than a shotgun. I would guess with a high certainty that it was a sawn-off double-barrel.

      Pump-action shotguns have been banned since the late 1990s after Port Arthur.

      Considering the number of criminal charges pending, it is doubtful the wannabe jihadi was legally licensed to own firearms. But it is a certain guarantee that there WILL be fallout on the legally licensed firearm owners.

  14. avatar TheSleeperHasAwakened says:

    What…no ghillie suits?

    And they call themselves Operators?

    1. avatar 2hotel9 says:

      I don’t see any beards, either. I say, bad form, old chums!

    2. avatar force recon says:

      ghillie suits are not generally used in urban environment.

      1. avatar 2hotel9 says:

        Sure they are! Otherwise you ain’t an operator operating operationally in the area of operations, brah!

  15. avatar Gearmoe says:

    Do you know what true TERROR is?

    It’s being held hostage for 16 hours, two are dead, the killer can be careless and wander without fear. He and you know unless another criminal is in the area there is no one who has another firearm.

    That is TERROR.

    The sooner the the anti-gun groups meet their demise the better. The American public must understand the reality of what does happen in the real world during a real crisis.

    The anti-firearm movement-the true enemy of the people.

  16. avatar oscar says:

    Here’s a truth about guns. If the hostages were armed they wouldn’t have been hostages.

  17. avatar Bill C says:

    First guy shown with whatever caliber rifle probably didn’t fire a shot. If he had, this whole thing would have been over a lot sooner and those two poor souls would be alive today. What use is all that gear if you only pull it out for show. When the bad guy starts operating on the “shoot me now” side of the law, oblige him!

  18. avatar Yellow Devil says:

    Lots of M4s (or clones) but no Steyr Augs. Hmm…

    1. avatar Brian says:

      NSW Police have never used the Aug/Austeyr/F88 platform….so why would they do so here?

  19. avatar Bova says:

    Why are the dust covers closed on all the M4s? At least it looks like they are to me.

  20. avatar Patrick says:

    It is a shame how some people talk about stuff they have no idea of! Honestly… You really need to talk about masks these guys wear? Disussions about how to get girls by wearing tactical clothes or weapons? How poor is that?

    Even if you won’t believe it, but most of all these details those guys do, wear, behave or what so ever have a reason why! Starting with uniforms… Badges and signs might apear important but to those guys it’s only signs… Who you are, what you do, what you achieved but more important what you are able to do. Yeah you might be proud of your badge but chicks don’t dig it! Definetly! Colleagues might pay you respect for them but most people don’t know their meaning and more important how much time you did put into… Color of your uniform? That’s a tricky one… Some might be because of tactical reasons, others because chiefs took that decision or similar reasons. But most of the time there are tactical reasons. Why not always pick the best color for the specific mission? Might be a question of money because fire resistant clothes might cost “a few” more dollars than you regular jeans do 😉 But again our experts know better…

    Hiding the faces… Clearly some of you have no idea… Operators do not want to be recognised! An the term operator is general for police and military forces! Hidding is for a few reasons. Obvisiouly it is for protection of operators. Against coward attacks against the close ones of the family or friends! It is not a sign of weakness… I can only laugh about that one… So the governement would put a lot of money into the training and education of those “Super Cops” or “Super Soldiers” and on the next mission anyone could take their picture and put it into the newspaper. So considering that after a few weeks of working, all those super expensife officers could stop working because everybody would know their face. Yeah! Great work there! Undercover is not simply a word in dictionaries but has a real meaning!

    But again as always… There will be experts here who will discuss this and find a better meaning for anything! Maybe there are reasons why those jobs are so full of mythes… Those guys don’t tell all their secrets! And more important there might be reasons why only so few people are able to do these job’s!

    Honestly i have the deepest respect for all those guys, who put their lives in line to keep peace, for all the sacrifices they are doing for the public!

    And to finish of my post… You might have a look at an TED Disscussion called “Why I chose a gun” by Peter van Uhm. You might look up that guy after looking at his speech and you will see that he absolutely knows what he’s talking of!

    http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_van_uhm_why_i_chose_a_gun

    1. avatar 2hotel9 says:

      Wow, sarcasm, satire and irony are three things you really don’t get, do you? Pull your panties out your crack and sprout a sense of humor, sweety.

      And as for hiding ID from terrorists? Any cop is listed by name and other identifying material on piles and mounds of government paper, and terrorists WILL find their identities, mainly by some fellow scumbag IN said government ratting them out.

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