Hunters: Time to Play Offense Against the Antis

The Future of Hunting

The following is by the good folks at powderhook.com republished with permission from Ammoland.com:

The anti-hunting movement has overwhelmed the consciousness of the hunting industry. Hunters, hunting land, firearms, and the sporting way of life are under attack politically and socially. Millions of hunt-able acres are shut down in Oregon to “protect” the spotted owl. Lead ammunition is banned in California. Increasingly legislators, not biologists, are making wildlife management decisions . . .

Professional huntress Melissa Bachman receives threatening messages to this day, over a year removed from the day she posted her now-famous lion photo. A deceptive foe, the Humane Society of the United States, seems to gain momentum even in the face of science, ethics and reason. The negativity and pressure has taken its toll, leaving industry leaders frustrated and searching for answers. A way of life once mandatory to sustain life is now fighting for its own life.

According to John Frampton, industry veteran and leader of the Council to Advance Hunting and Shooting Sports, “we’ve got to do something drastic or hunting as we know it won’t exist for future generations.”

For me this is personal.

Meet my son, Raleigh. (above) He’s almost two. He can say “buck,” he’s got a camo hat and a toy gun. He’ll watch a hunting show with me for about 30 seconds before his tractors or blocks distract him. Hunting means nothing to him now, but Raleigh is going to grow up the way I grew up, with a father who will teach him to love the outdoors. Will Raleigh’s friends? Or, will the race of an urbanized lifestyle, the traveling soccer teams, the two income households, the need to make time, the hassle of finding a place to go, the anti-hunting noise – will the pressure finally erode our base and crack our hunting foundation?

I say no. We’ve back-peddled long enough. I get emotional thinking about Raleigh not getting the same opportunities to enjoy the outdoors that I got. I’ve had enough. It’s time to play offense.

Let’s agree on a few things first:

The path to becoming a hunter is long – too long for most people. While hunting numbers have slowly declined for over 30 years, the number of shooters, people who shoot a bow or firearm for a purpose other than hunting, has grown rapidly in recent years. Shooting takes a smaller time investment to both learn and participate. Plus, it’s often more accessible to our urbanizing society. New shooters lack exposure to hunting and the role hunters and anglers play in the North American Model of Conservation. Let’s make conservationists out of shooters whether they hunt or not.

Almost every day I see a fight related to hunting somewhere online. The common cadence is 1) hunter posts photo 2) “anti” cries foul 3) spar ensues with supporters of each chiming in. You’ve seen it, too. I say let’s stop. The reason you care about hunting is someone took the time to teach you. You may not care for whittling or scuba diving, not because they’re not worthwhile endeavors, but because no one took the time to show you. You aren’t going to convince anyone to care about hunting, our model of conservation, or our way of life by telling them about it. The only way to change the way they feel is to include them, to take them and to teach them. An old saying goes, “never argue with a fool, for those watching may confuse which person is which.” Stop fighting and start inviting.

Anti Hunting Scumbags
An old saying goes, “never argue with a fool, for those watching may confuse which person is which.” Stop fighting and start inviting.

To an “anti,” a successful hunt looks like a person grinning, antlers in hand. A common [miss] perception pervades; a beautiful and valuable creature dies so that a person with the means to buy meat at a grocery store can enjoy a hobby. For a hunter, success feels very different, but it’s time we embrace the irreversible cultural shift toward surrogate killing. Most people don’t want to see dead animals, and even more don’t want to be the one to pull the trigger or set the hook. Confounding carnivores, these folks. But, they’re the overwhelming majority and perception is reality. When hunting equals killing we lose. As hunters we must demonstrate to those around us that hunting is about time with family, a sense of place, stewardship of the resource, anticipation, preparation and memories. When you post your next “grip and grin” try and add a sentence or two telling the real story.

Perhaps Nick Pinizzotto, CEO of the US Sportsmen’s Alliance, says it best. “As a hunting community, we need to do more to advance the notion of the important role that hunters play in conservation. We seldom try to get people to understand that we’re doing a good thing.”

What if a person never had to kill an animal in order to learn about hunting and understand the role hunters play in our ecosystem? We must begin to use the fun of a conservation banquet, the thrill of a shooting competition, the planning of a habitat project, and all the non-lethal things we do as a platform for telling our story.

The problem is overwhelmingly huge. We need to reverse a massive trend with steep financial and social momentum working against us. In all the talk about the future of hunting, I believe one message is lost. No fish and wildlife agency, brilliant ad campaign, television show or conservation organization can fix the problem. This is your problem and mine. If the future of hunting is important to you then you, individually, must engage in the fight. You must reverse the trend in your life.

Here’s how to do it – our offensive playbook:

You have four assets at your disposal; you have the spots you know how to find, the trips you take, the events you attend, and the groups to which you belong.

Spots

Lack of access is choking us. Help your friends find a spot of their own. Teach them how you found your spots, or tell them how you approached the landowners. As hunters we have to be willing to do what it takes to help people find a spot to which they can come back without us.

Expanded Hunting
Expanded Hunting

Trips

Every time you leave an empty seat in your truck you cost yourself a chance to take someone new. Those extra seats in your duck blind, the lease you have that 3 guys could hunt instead of two – think about a friend that might have wanted to be there with you. Despite the inherent risks of losing your honey hole or ruining a good day, bring someone new at least once every tenth time you go. Just one out of ten can reverse the trend.

Events

Conservation banquets, shooting competitions, youth hunts, family day at the range – there are thousands of outdoor events. Bring your friends and invite some people from the office. Tell them to bring their kids. Who cares if they don’t hunt? We need them to understand, not necessarily kill. Further, why do you have to wait for someone else to plan an event? You know how to shoot blue rock; why not take some friends shooting instead of golfing one Saturday? Put on a wild game feed, start a memorial fishing tournament – use events as a platform for engagement and education.

Groups

Many of us belong to conservation organizations. Others are part of volunteer groups doing habitat projects or planning fundraisers. We frequent discussion boards and share photos in private groups on facebook. Groups are a powerful, non-lethal means for including new or different people. Open your group, your hunting club, or your planning committee to some new people.

Saving hunting for the next generation is impossible for you to do, no matter who you are. You can’t add public access, you don’t have the means to change policy and you can’t educate the masses. But, you can change the trend in your life. As an industry let’s get busy empowering people to use the four tools: spots, trips, groups and events. Our way of life is just; we just need to share it and only you can do it.

About Powderhook 

Powderhook is the resource for connecting hunters and fishermen with places to enjoy their passion. We are building a one-stop marketplace to find any and all places, public and private, paid and free to hunt or fish in the United States and beyond. Check back often, as inventory grows daily. Our mission is Access for All, which means we’re bringing all the leases, permissions, blind seats, rentals, charters, outfitters, hunting clubs, lodges, game preserves, public and private lands we can find, into one simple to use resource. And, if you don’t find what you’re looking for today, get in touch and we’ll find it for you. It would be our pleasure to help you find a place to hunt or fish.

For more information on Powderhook visit www.powderhook.com , or call
(855) 4-SPRTSMN.

Fresh air awaits!

comments

  1. avatar jwm says:

    Hunters are their own worst enemies. I just recently re-entered the hunting world after a 40 year abscence. Myself and a growing group of young, new hunters around me have to hunt public lands in CA. Try to pry a little info out of the hunters that have been doing this in CA for a while. You would think they’re defending their daughters virginity.

    It truly is an old boys club and they don’t want new members. At least here in CA.

    1. avatar Model 31 says:

      That attitude is prevalent with a few exceptions, only I have not come across the exceptions…

      1. avatar Colorado Kid says:

        +1

    2. avatar Roymond says:

      That’s been my experience with the whole North American Hunting Club scene: they talk about getting new members, but for years my attempts to get them to start programs asking experienced members to teach newcomers have fallen on deaf ears. I’m sorry now I ever wasted any money on a membership.

    3. avatar Joe says:

      I have seen people post here in the comments section, saying they are looking for someone to hunt with near such and such, town/state…and have gotten nice responses. Why not try that? After all, we’re all POTG here…nice folks from what I can tell.

  2. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

    At 55 years of age, I’ve never been hunting. I have considered it especially after learning about the damage feral hogs do. However, the obstacles seem great to a noob. Where do you go to hunt? Where and when are the hunter safety courses? License? As hard as the actual hunting techniques can be, they seem simple compared to questions like: What do I do now that I’ve shot the beast? That sucker is big and heavy and managed to crawl off into a steep ravine. How do I get him home? How do I butcher him? What do I do with the stuff that’s not going to get eaten?
    It seems to me that every new hunter needs a mentor to get started.

    1. avatar JeffR says:

      I am almost 40 and am in the same boat as you. I am intrigued by hunting but am daunted by all that goes into it. I had a friend volunteer to take me deer hunting this year but his demands at work got in the way. Next year will hopefully be different. But without an experienced mentor by my side, I am unlikely to ever take to the field. Hunters would do well to make finding mentors easier. Not everyone has a friend who is an experienced hunter who they can rely upon to help.

      1. avatar Piet Padkos says:

        As much as I hate the “There’s an app for that” philosophy, I’ve often wondered why someone doesn’t write an app for hunting meetups and mentorships, like a dating site.

        Say,
        I’m a 21 year old living in Nebraska looking for a mentor with at least 5 good hunts and/or at least 3 years experience.
        Hoping to meet any weekend during the month of December.
        I’m interested in hunting feral hog and whitetail.
        I do/do not have a rifle and do/do not need help in choosing one.

        Hit go and get profiles of any hunters that meet those parameters.

        Would help the cause.

        1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          You don’t need an “app.” Online forums exist. Gun shops and shooting ranges exist. Outfitters (non-gun shops) exist. Take a Hunter’s Safety Course; that works, too.

          NC has instituted a “Be a Hunting Mentor” program, and other states probably have as well.

          There are PLENTY of ways to meet hunters without some social-media-esque “dating service.”

          Maybe ONE reason you don’t see apps like that because hunters are, as a general rule, perhaps spending their time in the woods…hunting, scouting, etc, not sitting around filling out a profile and looking at profiles for “folks that want to get started.”

          New hunters most definitely CAN benefit from having a mentor. Finding one is not a “Social” thing to be solved by technology. It’s a hunting thing, solved by DOING the things that hunters DO.

          My $0.02, anyway.

        2. avatar Piet Padkos says:

          As much as I agree, I personally friggin’ hate social media nonsense, for my lazy generation even those easily accessable avenues would be “too much effort” and “why isn’t there an easier way? I’d totally try it if there was, oooh! I’m trending!”.

          It isn’t pretty but that’s how it is. You need new blood to stay alive and getting the PinkBerry low fat soy decaf gourmet cupcake, whatever the fu*k crowd to join in won’t be easy if you only stick to the old ways.

          Sometimes you need to adapt and be willing to compromise, make an even bigger effort to draw them in. Important to ensure the survival of the things you love.

        3. avatar Piet Padkos says:

          As much as I agree, I personally friggin’ hate social media nonsense, for my lazy generation even those easily accessible avenues would be “too much effort” and “why isn’t there an easier way? I’d totally try it if there was, oooh! I’m trending!”.

          It isn’t pretty but that’s how it is. You need new blood to stay alive and getting the PinkBerry low fat soy decaf gourmet cupcake, whatever the fu*k crowd to join in won’t be easy if you only stick to the old ways.

          Sometimes you need to adapt and be willing to compromise, make an even bigger effort to draw them in. Important to ensure the survival of the things you love.

        4. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          “You need new blood to stay alive and getting the PinkBerry low fat soy decaf gourmet cupcake, whatever the fu*k crowd to join in won’t be easy if you only stick to the old ways. “

          Warning: Philosophical musings to follow.

          Not sure I “want” them hunting if that’s all they want to put into doing it.

          Myself and many, many other hunters are more than happy to introduce a new person to hunting. I began learning from my Dad. I realize not everyone has had that luxury.

          But…hunting is far more than “shooting a game animal.” As alluded above in the OP, it’s work. I’m not sure introducing someone that what a “quick fix” or “immediate gratification” interests me at all, and that’s what the latte drinker type sounds like.

          You want to get started in hunting? Find out when the season starts; then, about two months before that, get in the woods. If you don’t have a mentor / buddy to take you out, start by hunting with a camera (as but one suggestion…certainly not ‘necessary’) since this does not require seasons and will allow one to be in the woods when other hunters aren’t.

          You can’t learn to hunt from reading books, magazines, forums and even being ‘taught’ by a mentor. So, the app approach is a false security anyway. Mentors and books and whatnot can give ideas and pointers, but the gist is, I think, an instinctive thing that has to be awakened by being in the woods…honing the senses and observational skills that no one can teach to another.

          It boils down to a lot things related to ‘firearms freedom.’ It’s personal responsibility. I don’t hunt or teach my children to hunt to keep some ‘sport’ alive. I hunt and teach them to hunt for a LOT of reasons, but it has nothing (or very, very little) to do with others and what they do or how they spend their time.

          So, if someone wants to learn to hunt, don’t wait for a tech solution. Go hunt. Go find hunters willing to take you. Whatever. Technology/social media is not the solution to every problem.

        5. avatar Piet Padkos says:

          Eh, fair enough. No real argument from me.

          I just figure getting them out there is the first step. Once there, you can break them down and rebuild them. Make them into real hunters that will teach their kids, then teach their kids.

          Offer them a hook, then pull them in.

          Light the fire and let burn, start a revolution and all that.

    2. avatar Resident CT says:

      I let my Connecticut hunting license lapse as it was getting old paying fees to hunt in areas that were poor (state land in NW ct). My son has been interested in hunting but the classes offered by the state are full or across state, plus the many fees add up.

    3. avatar JasonMfromSoDakota says:

      @Soccer–At your more experienced age the young saying of never to late to learn is important. Hunting is a fun way to enjoy the beauty of God’s country and make some memories. It allows you to focus on the basics of trying to understand the habits of an animal and then being able to put said animal on the diner table. Hunting can be an excruciating workout while traversing multiple terrains and to be successful is measured in the experience and not tied to having fresh meat, which is a bonus. It enshrines the four main aspects of gun safety through actual practice while not being confined to gun ranges. Hunting on public land is hard work and at sometimes dangerous when a bunch of weekend warriors trade rational thoughts and the chains of their desks for blaze orange and a chance to shoot a rifle. Scouting the area and avoiding the opening weekend reduces your chances of encountering unsafe idiots. Hunting is a learning experience that is highly fluid and adaption is the key. A mentor is a great thing to have but not necessary if a person is willing to put the time in, after all you are who decides the enjoyment experienced through hard work. The internet has some amazing stuff on it about meat processing and some out of the box thinking and tinkering always helps making retrieval easier. The television shows are not real representations of what it is like to hunt on public land, since on public lands it is illegal to hunt baited areas, and unethical to shoot a domesticated wild beast.

  3. avatar Cameron B says:

    I feed people wild game and then tell them where i got it. after they know it can taste as good if not better than packaged they tend to soften their view.

  4. avatar LarryinTX says:

    Tried hunting over 50 years ago, didn’t like it. But I will NEVER be anti hunting, I figure the practice saved the lives of 50,000 years of my ancestors. Safety is good, species have gone extinct every year for millions of years, let’s try to make some sense.

    There are laws which need to change, one way or another.

    1. avatar SteveInCO says:

      I can’t even stand camping, much less going out in the woods for several days to stalk something. But I am with you, I won’t be “anti” those who do for both practical and moral reasons. (Indeed, the moral is the practical if your morals aren’t backwards.)

  5. avatar racer88 says:

    So… NOW… the hunters (aka “Fudds”) who ostracized sport shooters and gun enthusiasts while eschewing modern sporting rifles…. They want our help? Now that the antis are going after THEM, too, they suddenly have an epiphany? Never minding that we WARNED them of this?

    I don’t hunt. But, I have always supported it. I’ve long known that today’s hunters have contributed FAR more to conservation of wildlife than any liberal bleeding-heart organization.

    Deep down, I will stand up for the hunters. But, I admit to indulging in a little momentary schadenfreude. You want my support? Then stop working AGAINST ME. Instead of standing firm as a “Fudd” because it was (briefly) politically expedient… join me as a GUN OWNER and support the 2nd Amendment FULLY.

    1. avatar Mike S says:

      There are some of us (a growing number, it seems to me) for whom 2A concerns, and hunter’s concerns are nearly one and the same.

      Let’s face it- there isn’t a whole lot of daylight between the folks going after gun rights, and those trying to stop hunting.

      Nor should there be between us.

      1. avatar racer88 says:

        I dare suggest that the schism between us is unilaterally self-imposed by the Fudds. “We” never abandoned them. But, they threw us under the bus.

        1. avatar Mike S says:

          I can’t dispute that- and I still see the “Not my problem” attitude among my fellow hunters regarding AWBs and the like. But I, and a number of my friends are guys who did not grow up hunting, but came to it later in life, through shooting, and now find it to be of nearly equal importance to us. I’m also encountering people with similar stories at the range, and in the field.
          The old guard is still there- but many of us now have an AR resting happily next to our muzzleloaders.

        2. avatar racer88 says:

          Absolutely. I support them despite the error of their ways. I think we (sports shooters) support the rights of hunters. Always have. That’s why we were so miffed when they threw us under the bus.

    2. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Well said, racer88. When I read the line “Let’s make conservationists out of shooters whether they hunt or not,” I thought, “You start turning some Fudds into real 2A supporters, and I’ll start working on converting some IDPA or SASS guys into conservationists.” Meet us halfway, because we’re fighting against a common enemy here.

    3. avatar v v ind says:

      I hunt AND I’m a 2A supporter. I say use those ‘we’s ‘they’s ‘us’s and ‘them’s sparingly guys.

  6. avatar Mike says:

    In the ’70’s and ’80’s, people (mostly women), used to chain themselves to fences at the entrances to state and county parks, and hold large demonstrations against deer hunting in Morris Cty., NJ. (A VERY affluent area). They were given lots of exposure by the liberal press and turned hunting socially unacceptable in a lot of the state. The deer population exploded, and all these well-to-do suburbanites were getting their Audis, Mercedes and BMW’s smashed up with car/deer collisions, and having their expensive landscaping destroyed by the hungry herds that are everywhere now. They learned the hard way, but there are no longer any anti deer hunting protests anymore. Now we have the anti bear hunting nuts that come out of their urban enclaves, into the rural areas, where we are over-run with black bears, make a big scene, and slink back to their bear-less cities. When NJ elects a “D” governor, they suspend bear hunting , and we are over run with bears, when NJ elects a “R” governor, the hunt is reinstated, and things go back to normal. Depending on who is in the statehouse, will also make a big difference in your gun/hunting rights. Never-ever vote for someone that has the support of the antis. Sounds like common sense, but I am always surprised at the number of hunters/gun owners that vote for libs here in the NE.

    1. avatar Mike S says:

      Agreed. My best friend, and hunting partner votes monolithically liberal…..despite being nearly the 2A absolutist I am. I’ll never wrap my head around it.

    2. avatar Evan says:

      I go to school up in Morris County. Every person in my family has hit at least one deer in their car, several of them have hit upwards of five. And the dead black bears and wrecked cars keep piling up on the side of the road. It’s insanity, yet all I ever see is end the bear hunt bumper stickers.

  7. avatar DerryM says:

    I never hunted and never wanted to. I have no argument with those who do, and have supported them in opposing the ban on lead shot, the ban on lead-core rifle bullets and other restrictions on Hunting. In return, I have had Fudd’s tell me my interest in firearms is a “waste of time” since I don’t hunt animals or fowl.
    So now the cry is “Fudd’s erwachen!” because it has dawned on them that banning Hunting is as much a goal of the Socialist Progressives as any other anti Second Amendment agenda. Politicians making decisions about Game Management is unacceptable? Really? What an epiphany! Elmer’s Boys have built their own Ivory Tower and consistently given short shrift to the rest of the Shooting Sports Community, so I cannot embrace this post with open arms…just yet. Sorry, Elmer, you’ll have to do better than trying to make me feel bad your kid might not get to hunt when he grows-up.

    1. avatar Accur81 says:

      With “friends” like you, there’s little wonder why hunting traditions are endangered.

      1. avatar SteveInCO says:

        Though I don’t agree with his pique at the Fudds who won’t give a flying damn about gun control until someone went after “Fudd guns,” I can certainly understand it. Having said that, it’s time for us to bury the hatchet, not indulge in schadenfreude. Greet them with “maybe now you understand what we have been saying, and we can now work together,” instead of “fvck you.”

        We need to pull together.

        1. avatar Mike S says:

          Word.

        2. avatar DerryM says:

          Well, I may not be able to choke out those kindly words SteveinCO, but I appreciate your sentiment. The Fudd’s would need to prove to me that “now (they) understand what we’ve been saying all along”, and truly do, before I’ll kiss any of them on the cheek, but I support their entry into the Gun Rights Fray.
          BTW- I do fully recognize that some number of Hunters use their skills to feed their Families out of necessity. Those people are NOT Fudd’s in my book, and I support them, more than some of the others.

      2. avatar That meanie DerryM says:

        Dragging out the very tired old’ With Friends like you…” comeback, won’t do it either, Accurate81. Frankly, I thought you were more capable than that…Anyway, you missed the key phrase “…just yet.” So, just as I gave money and time to help the Fudd’s in other fights that affected them and not me, I’ll support them because it’s the right thing to do, but first I’ll vent my pent-up anger and don’t really care if anyone else likes it or not…Understand?

  8. avatar mike oregon says:

    Divide and conquer, always works when a group can be divided. Personally I never believed it when I heard, ” nobody wants to take your hunting rifle away” but they don’t, they only want to remove” dangerous high powered sniper rifles” . In California they have banned” single shot assault rifles” what ever the hell that is.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      “Divide and conquer, always works when a group can be divided.”

      Yep, and the new ‘bad guy meme’ they are using to do this is Open Carry.

      They were successful enough with the Hunter vs Non-Hunter campaign, I guess, they figured it was time to find another avenue of the ‘divide and conquer’ attack.

  9. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    I deer hunted from the time I was 12 until I left for the army. I never once shot a deer or elk but I loved going hunting with my dad, grandpa an cousins. Even if I never shot a deer I would still want to hunt with my family and want it available for the future. I was lucky growing up, I had many acres of private Oregon forest land to hunt in. I’ve heard it’s been closong due to people tearing things up and leaving trash around.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Land isn’t necessarily belong closed off, it gets gated and posted as a “travel management” area. You’re allowed to walk in, but not drive in. The gates where we were at over the last week were locked with zip ties. Still OK to hike in, just not drive in.

      1. avatar Roymond says:

        It’s effectively closed off, and at least where I am the result is more trash than before. People used to drive to a spot, and it was easy to throw their trash into their rig and drive out with it. Now that they have to carry it back however far — even when it’s a hundred yards from a fishing hole — fewer are bothering. I used to fill a giant trash bag per summer and fall with trash others didn’t carry out; just last summer I carried out three, and it’s been that way since the bright yellow gates went up. I’ve gotten so tired of it I don’t even bother with anything biodegradable any longer; if it will rot, I let it.

        1. avatar Kyle says:

          That’s some BS. I have never understood the mindset of those who just wantonly litter and pollute.

  10. avatar DrewR55 says:

    Just got back from my first hunting trip an hour ago. Had to drive three hours to the south east corner of the state to find a WMA that still allowed gun hunting. Everywhere else it is bow this and primitive that.

    It would have been disheartening if it hadn’t been for the company. I’ll go again next year.

    1. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      For what it’s worth my rural Texas nephews have all changed to black-powder hunting. They all have replica Hawken muzzle loaders. They said they got bored with regular hunting but, now, the excitement and challenge is back.

  11. avatar Scrubula says:

    18 yo, never been hunting before. I have always been interested but I don’t think anyone in my family is interested in eating deer meat for a month…

    1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

      That may change seriously in the next few years. Your family might be grateful on their knees for ANY kind of meat. I hope you will take the opportunity to learn how to provide it in time.

      This isn’t about some “sport.” This is about survival.

      1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

        +1000

      2. avatar SteveInCO says:

        If it ever comes to that then any sort of wildlife management will go right out the window, and game animals will be hunted to extinction by increasingly desperate, starving people. There are just too many of us people to live off the game population in North America, even given that the deer population has exploded around these parts.

        (Under normal circumstances, needless to say, hunting to cull the herd is a good thing and has tons of other benefits.)

        You might want other skills to fall back on once you find there aren’t any deer, elk, pronghorn, ducks, pheasants, etc. any more.

        1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

          Every skill will be vital. You are not going to learn any of them overnight the day you need them either. No, I don’t think for a moment that all the wildlife will be killed off. I think it is far more likely that all of those unprepared, starving fools will kill each other off in the big cities and metro areas.

          Then, those of us who know how to hunt, and so forth… will have a good chance to survive.

          I’ve been hunting for more than 50 years. I’m an old lady now, and can’t keep up with the boys… but my boys know how to hunt today because I taught them. That’s how it works.

        2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          Steve,

          There is some merit in your point, but you are making a couple of assumptions that challenge that point.

          (1) The population has effectively been urbanized and hunting, along with other self sufficiency skills, has been “bred out” of recent generations.

          It is unrealistic to expect a significant proportion of people that have ever hunted, or even been IN the woods, to be competitive…with either other, more experienced hunters or the game animals themselves. Hunting is not something you can “just do,” at least not consistently.

          Also, some of the urbanized will become prey to critters presently in the woods.

          (2) In the doomsday scenario you are describing, there will likely be a LOT of attrition…most of it in the urban setting BEFORE people take to the woods to hunt. It won’t be the present population seeking to exploit the resources.

          (3) There are many species of edible animals; deer won’t be the only things hunted.

          (4) Animals and ecosystems are remarkably adaptable. I’m not comfortable making predictions regarding “what will happen if…” since time out of mind, such predictions made by man have proven false. The system would CHANGE in such a scenario, but that’s not quite the same thing as saying “no meat anywhere” anything like that.

          (5) In survival “mode,” humans need (a) far less meat and (b) far less food in general than most contemporary Americans realize. Diets would change as well as everything else in the system.

          (6) Humans have recognized the importance of ‘management’ and ‘husbandry’ for tens of thousands of years. It has only been relatively recently shifted away from that. I propose that some of the ‘old instincts’ will kick in, and there would be more “only kill for need” but that is certainly open to speculation either way.

          But, all that said, I certainly don’t disagree that other skills are important, too.

      3. avatar Piet Padkos says:

        May I ask what you are referring to, in terms of meat no longer being available in a few years?

        Do you mean as far as a collapse in society where butchers and supermarkets no longer exist, an unaffordable hike in meat prices or the loss of domesticated livestock due to disease and overuse of antibiotics?

        Just curious, I don’t want to be caught off guard as far as the ability to procure meat.

        1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

          You just never know. But my bet is on a world wide, very serious depression. How that will work out is anyone’s guess, but it’s not going to be pretty once this economy crashes. And it will. Those who don’t have their heads in the sand (or worse places) will have a chance to survive.

          Tell you what… if hunting isn’t your thing, I hope you have other skills that you can barter for food. But I wouldn’t count on computer programming much…

        2. avatar Piet Padkos says:

          I’m pretty good at small scale farming, bread making, baking, etc. I was raised pretty old school. Not sure how useful that would be. Also, the price of entry is pretty steep where I live.

          But I know enough people who do hunt that I could borrow a rifle from and that would teach me what I need to know. Not necessarily something I would choose, but if the SHTF I won’t spend my time starving and afraid.

          I have no qualms killing if only to survive.

        3. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          “Do you mean as far as a collapse in society where butchers and supermarkets no longer exist, an unaffordable hike in meat prices”

          As it stands right now, a significant fraction of food costs are transportation costs, not directly food production cost. And that fraction is likely to increase.

          Moving your food supply (meat, other) closer to home is NEVER a bad thing.

          Here’s one interesting take on the subject, and this dude makes some EXCELLENT points in this video (and the whole series).

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uKihKkx0eY

          So, it won’t necessarily take a full-on “collapse.” I think it was a different (related) video in a different series where some historical analysis was done that revealed ‘food riots’ occur when food costs reach approximately 40-50% of net income.

    2. avatar Stinkeye says:

      You don’t have to eat it all at once. It’ll keep in the freezer for months. Also, there’s not as much meat on most deer as you might think. But what meat there is is delicious, and healthier than anything you can buy at the supermarket.

    3. avatar Taylor TX says:

      Freeze it, just dont let it sit too long. Depending on where you get it processed, some places will vacuum seal it now. I usually have venison/beef chili a few times a year and backstrap for a few months after, especially if its going in some jalapenos! Its hard not to get burnt out eating it a month straight.

  12. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Funny thing, the spotted owl. (And by the way, the land isn’t closed to hunting, just driving or logging).

    Turns out the spotted owl lives in an area occupied by another species of owl that likes to hunt and kill the spotted owl.
    So now, the .gov in its infinite wisdom, (read stupidity), is hiring hunters to kill the barred owl.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/21/feds-begin-killing-barred-owls-to-help-save-spotted-owl/

    I just spent a week chasing the elusive Wapiti, or Roosevelt Elk. The best herd we saw was parked on some peoples pasture. Seems they feed the elk during hunting season to try and save them.
    My evil anti-anti- hunter mind has now hatched a plan to move those elk. It’s friggen genius I tell you!
    MWAHAHAHAHA

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Does your evil plan include dragging bales of hay, bags of grain and salt blocks behind a pickup as you slowly cruise by the herd?

      1. avatar Roymond says:

        LOL

        I met a guy who implemented an “evil plan” in such an instance: he went hiking through lands open to hunting all around the area, and in every clearing he sowed alfalfa and clover. Neighbors picked up on the idea, with some actually cutting clearings to sow.

        It prompted a bit of a debate on what constitutes baiting, of course.

  13. avatar Accur81 says:

    Forgive the Fudds. That’s one of the biggest ways to unite in freedom. The antis are united in their hatred of everything involving guns and civilians. We must be united in our love of freedom in every responsible endeavor involving civilians and firearms.

    My dad thought ARs were ridiculous for hunting. One year my buddy showed up with a POF .308 AR-10. He got a nice 10 point buck with it. The next year, an M&P 5.56 with Mk 318 Mod 0 ammo. He passed on a 6 pointer at about 170 yards because he wasn’t sure he could make a clean kill.

    My buddy and I brought ARs this year. He returned with his sweet POF, and I brought my 300 BLK. We both got decent sized bucks, but dad got skunked with his Marlin 336C.

    Over time, there’s little argument against ARs, even in our conservative neck of the woods.

    Forgive the Fudds, even if they’ve been pricks. Invite friends to hunt. Share your venison hot sticks, chili, summer sausage, even tenderloins. Let the hippies know you got free range corn-fed venison during a fair chase hunting harvest. I played a role in deer management and population control. Challenge them to do the same. If they are interested help show them the way.

    1. avatar Evan says:

      My dad used to use a 336 marlin to hunt to live. He grew up poor in NY upstate. I’ll be using a mauser for deer and a mossberg 500 for birds. Got a pedersoli black powder flintlock too, may use that to hunt.

  14. avatar Troutbum5 says:

    Perhaps it’s just where I grew up, the way I was raised, and whom I associate with now, but I have never met a “fudd”. Everyone I know who hunts is an ardent supporter of the RKBA. Seems to me that a “fudd” is a wannabe, not a serious hunter, and probably a yuppie type. My feeling is that most hunters are not this way. Go out and poll the farmers, ranchers and other rural folks in the Midwest or the Rocky Mountain states, and you won’t find many, if any, fudds. And I think these folks make up the majority of hunters. Unfortunately it seems to be a “silent” majority. We need to get them to speak up.

    The art of hunting is dying because of the shift towards urban living, the wussification of men, and a general laziness of the last 2 generations. Why tool up, drive several hours, walk a few miles, and then have to butcher your prize when you can just go down to Applebee’s and buy an already cooked (and nasty) steak?

    I see a larger issue in all of this. The shift towards urbanization plays right into the progressives’ agenda of making us less self sufficient and more reliant on government. All the better for disarming us and putting us under totalitarian thumb.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Well said. Excellent points. All of ’em.

    2. avatar SteveInCO says:

      Re: general laziness

      I see deer on my land often enough I should just put in for a tag for this WMA. That way I can actually pull the trigger the next time I have one in my EDC handgun’s sights, which happens fairly often. (Naah, it’s probably not a proper caliber.)

      1. avatar Troutbum5 says:

        I have a acquaintance with 40 acres in SW Colorado. He sits on his back porch with his coffee, paper and 7mm in the morning during deer season. And gets his deer for the freezer every year. Not lazy, just smart. Then he goes up the side if a mountain to get his elk. Or try at least.

    3. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      To appreciate its fullest spirit, hunting requires a connection to rural culture. You don’t actually have to be rural to have that connection but you do have to understand and respect it. FUDDS for the most part are urban dwellers who hunt. They lack that essential connection to rural values.

  15. avatar Geoff says:

    Never really got interested in hunting. Did some varmint and pest control in our family garden some 45 years ago as a teen with a .22, but nothing since. Next year I qualify for a Lifetime Hunting and Fishing license in South Carolina, so maybe will take up hunting. As long as it isn’t TOO expensive. Thought about deer hunting back in the 70’s in Texas until I found out what it costs to pay the property owner to hunt on his land. Sold the 30-30 lever action rifle I had and gave up on the idea.
    I don’t understand what these anti people have against hunting. It is simply another method of population control of the species.
    Would they rather be over-run by bears, mountain lions or other dangerous animals encroaching into population centers and killing people?

  16. avatar David says:

    Someone should start a hunting magazine (maybe only online) that ONLY has articles on hunting with semi-auto rifles, shotguns and pistols. Most esp. ARs and AKs with the occasional “normal looking” rifle. That would blow the anti’s and Fudd’s minds in one fell swoop.

  17. avatar Tom says:

    I havent hunted in years, but I would love to take the sport back up. My interest is to supplement the family grocery budget. Nothing better than venison and wild boar.

    The anti hunting animal rights activists are giant blowhards. I have posted to those who have made threats telling them if you want to take a crack at killing me because I hunt I`ll give you my address, but you have to bring your own body bag. Not one has taken up my offer.

  18. avatar Ralph says:

    Fudds come from the same elitist mindset as your average chablis-and-brie New York putz. They look down on the nonpolitical, hardscrabble working families who take a few deer every year not just for sport, but also for food. Fudds also look down on us. We return the favor, in spades.

    This would be a good time for all hunters to wake up, open their eyes and see what’s going on. Ultimately, as Ben Franklin said, “we must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.”

  19. avatar former water walker says:

    +1 Ralph. If the MILLIONS of hunters supported the RKBA we’d all be OK. In many ways hunting is under fire even more than just owning or carrying is. None of divide and conquer crap either.

  20. avatar Mike says:

    I’ve never been hunting, but I’ve thought about it for the past couple years or so (Almost 40. Came from a non-hunting family). I see all these articles by Robert and Tyler about their hunts, and I was wondering if you guys were willing to put together a contest for a hunting trip…? Might be a nice way to show an interested newbie – like a couple of us commenters – the ropes and what all goes into a successful (or not-so-successful) hunt…

  21. avatar Calvin says:

    History tells me the Fudds always “win” the game of appeasement. Britain, France, Germany are just the first three examples that come to mind. You can shoot in all of those countries, but only if you’re a Fudd, wearing your tweed/laderhosen/whatever the French wear and shooting great grandpa’s gun. It’s like golf only a little louder. American Fudds will strike the same strange bargain, trading away their rights but keeping their guns, in a heartbeat if they thought they could.

    If the Fudds want our help they can have it but I think we should make them prove it. They can grovel a bit more before I’ll be too bothered. Ten more years sounds about right, if they don’t throw us back under the bus before then.

    tl,dr: Liberty>Tradition

  22. avatar Marcus (Aurelius) Payne says:

    I have pointed out to a few anti hunters both that being shot by a skilled hunter is the most humane death a deer could receive and that it’s process from hunting, taxes or tag fees, that fund conservation more than anything else. No one cares, their opinions are based in an emotional ideology. Which rebuffs me: I need to finish my hunters safety course.

  23. avatar Roymond says:

    Maybe a campaign with images of deer dying from malnutrition, frozen in snowbanks, and dead as roadkill, with a caption along the lines of “She could have had a cleaner death: support hunting”, would have an impact.

  24. avatar Tnrifleman says:

    well of course their not going after hunting rifles theyll call them sniper rifles first…..

  25. avatar Davis Thompson says:

    Started hunting this year. At age 50. Got a wild turkey and, following week, an 8 point buck. I’ve never felt part of something larger than me, or closer to nature, than when I first knelt by that beautiful creature I’d harvested and thanked him for what he was providing me.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Awesome. You felt it.

    2. avatar Taylor TX says:

      Spirit of the Deer is a magical thing, rarely understood until that very moment.

    3. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Ditto the awesome.

  26. avatar BASHer says:

    For those setting out to start hunting but lack for land or a circle of friends that can facilitate access do not overlook species other than deer to start with. Coyote, Groundhog, Wild Hogs, and Nutria for example are nuisance species that in some instances carry bounties. Landowners are often thrilled to have someone remove them.
    Case in point last month Garden and Gun had an article on some wealthy guys who had a huge tract of land for the express purpose of pheasant hunting and one of the topics touched upon was habitat management. One of their top four tips was ” 4. Control Predators With the land kept relatively open, and numbers of quail, turkeys, rabbits, and other grassland-loving species on the rise, egg predator numbers skyrocket. Predator control is a piece of the puzzle. “The more the better, and as much as you can afford,” figures Stidham. “Do as much as you can, but do something.””
    http://gardenandgun.com/article/four-principles-creating-quail-hunters-paradise

    These men are not just letting others hunt their land to control predators they are PAYING them! They have a private hunting ground and are paying others to hunt it for them. What are the odds the coyote hunters are having more fun than the owners? By removing undesired animals you have something of value to offer landowners and here is the really great part, by going after nuisance species you can usually hunt outside of the normal seasons. That means you are not bound to some arbitrary short season and have the woods to yourself.

  27. avatar Pieslapper says:

    Shhhh! I’m hunting libewals…

  28. avatar Taylor TX says:

    One of the most effective things I have found is taking the Martin Neimoller quote and applying it to more traditional firearms, read: ones with wood on them.

    Then again, some of these people define low information, theyre firmly planted in the “it wont happen here” and “my vote doesnt matter” crowds. There are quite a few public land spots (at least in TX), got a couple of ducks on thanksgiving morning at one.

  29. avatar BHirsh says:

    I say, if they don’t want to see trophy photos, let them not look.

    I say, they aren’t worth trying to convince, even by trying to cajole them in to going hunting for the experience so they can “better make up their minds”.

    I say, they must be politically CRUSHED.

    Out of business. Gone. No more. Told, “We don’t care WHAT you like. When my rights come up for your approval, I’ll be sure to let you know.”

  30. avatar DJonesinSeattle says:

    I’m 39 and went deer hunting for the first time in my life last month. It was a fantastic experience and highly recommend trying it to those sitting on the fence. Is the learning curve steep? Yes. It took me almost a full year of planning and preparing to make it work. Totally worth it. For me, the most daunting part was after you kill this huge animal then what? I’m from the burbs meat came from bubble wrap packages and all you had to decide was how to marinade and how long to grill. Always liked shooting and guns and was confident I could kill a deer just didn’t know what I’d do with it or all the rules and regs and areas to hunt and on, and on, and on. Here’s my advice on how to start deer hunting for a noob like me:

    1. Go get a rifle now and start practicing. A lot. And not from the bench go outside and shoot from standing and sitting. Also try running around and then shooting from a standing position. I discovered the first time you see a deer in range and want to shoot you will be so excited you’ll think your heart is about to jump out of your chest. If you’re really confident in your shooting ability and equipment you will have a much better experience.

    2. Take the hunters safety class. Not the online, go to the actual class in your area you will meet other new hunters and maybe make a new friend to go hunting with. My class was about 75% dads with young sons taking the class, the rest older guys like me learning to hunt. It was a great resource. But humbling of course, to sit in a class with 8 year olds that know more about hunting than you do! Get over it.

    3. Get hands on experience dressing large animals. I took a day long class on hog butchering. It helped me learn where everything is and how to keep the meat clean and safe to eat, etc. But know the first time you field dress a large animal it is going to be awkward. The second time, easier, the third time, routine. You just have to go for it. Then once I got the deer home I skinned it and butchered it while watching how-to videos on youtube. There are a million (literally) how to hunt and butcher animals videos on youtube, some better than others. Another great resource for new hunters.

    4. Find a friend to go with your first time. My buddy from work (also a beginner) and I wen’t through the process of learning to hunt together so we kept each other motivated. And then went hunting together. He got a large doe and I got a small buck. It sure does help to have a buddy there when pulling a large doe out of blackberry thickets (in the dark)

    Anyway, now I have a freezer of healthy, lean meat that will last me all winter. Great experience. Do it!!

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