School Forces 5-Year-Old to Sign Anti-Murder/Suicide Contract After Pointing a Crayon

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“My child interrupted us and said, ‘what is suicide? Mommy, daddy, what is suicide?'” Let no one say that the modern public school system isn’t educating its young charges on the important aspects of life. A Mobile Alabama girl (and her mother) got some valuable insights into the anti-gun indoctrination process last week. When E.R. Dickson Elementary’s principal was presented with the case of a particularly threatening 5-year-old girl who aimed a crayon and said, “pew, pew,” Katryna Kinn did what any good government functionary would do: she broke out the legal documentation . . .

Without her permission, [the girl’s mother] says her five-year-old was then given this Mobile County Public Schools safety contract to sign, stating that she wouldn’t kill herself or others.

“While I was in the lobby waiting, they had my five-year-old sign a contact about suicide and homicide,” she said.

Put yourself in principal Kinn’s post-Newtown shoes for a moment. The potential damage a little girl could do at a school like E.R. Dickson (“Committed to Excellence”) with a standard capacity Binney & Smith has to give a zero tolerance elementary school executive pause. And we hear Caribbean Green can be particularly devastating.

So that explains why the first matter of business, once Principal Kinn got little Elizabeth into her office, was to coerce the 5-year-old into signing a contract obligating the vicious little miscreant to refrain from killing herself or someone else. At least until she’s old enough to move on to a middle school where it would be another highly trained educational professional’s problem.

comments

  1. Halfwits. I’m speechless.

    1. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

      Truly. Not only is the whole idea pretty stupid but they seem to have forgotten that minors cannot enter into contracts. Oh hell, I’m just overthinking this. Let’s just go with it’s a stupid idea. The best response would have been, “Elizabeth, let’s go read a picture book!” At that age, distraction is better than attention. You’d think people educated in elementary education would know that….

      1. avatar Robert W. says:

        Elizabeth, it’s not nice to pretend to shoot people if they don’t know to pretend shoot back. Go back to coloring.

      2. avatar TTACer says:

        Minors not being able to sign contracts was the first thing I thought of. So she is free to kill others and commit suicide.

        1. avatar Colt Magnum says:

          Agreed. The contract is null and void.

        2. avatar Random_Commenter says:

          Tell the adults you are using “pretend sim-munition” or “bean bag” rounds.

    2. avatar FoRealz? says:

      You are making the mistake of thinking these people are dumb and doing this out of nincompoopery. Oh no. They are not.

      This is not a mistake or some half baked caper. Rest assured instructions to do these things and the nice little contract came right from the top.

      People make the same mistake about Barry Obola thinking he’s a dummy and incompetent. Therefore disregarding the possibility of entertaining the idea that everything he does is calculated and intentional.

      This episode here is just a snapshot of his street soldiers in action.

      1. avatar John Galt says:

        “There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”

        – Lao Tzu

    3. avatar Michael in GA says:

      Why wait till the crayons are brandished? Make all 5 year olds sign the contract. We will never have another murder or suicide in this country again.

    4. avatar bob says:

      Halfwits. Too much credit here. Nowits.

    5. avatar 2Alpha says:

      Form ID-10t “Ass-covering document”

  2. avatar Bigred2989 says:

    I heard about this a few days ago. If there wasn’t a video from NBC I wouldn’t have believed it.

  3. avatar jake says:

    Dang I really wanted to shoot people but I signed that contract

    1. avatar Rikoshay says:

      Aim for their knee caps.

      1. avatar jake says:

        Good idea!

      2. avatar JoshtheViking says:

        That made me think of how in Terminator 2 the kid told Arnold not to kill anyone, so Arnold started shooting people in the kneecaps instead.

        1. avatar jake says:

          Well he wasn’t wrong

        2. avatar Jim R says:

          “He’ll live.”

    2. avatar Sergio says:

      Maybe we should give these contracts to members of our revolving door justice system. Result!…?

    3. avatar Grindstone says:

      I really wanted to kill myself, but that damn contract will really penalize me if i do.

  4. avatar PPGMD says:

    Really really?

    “You can’t murder us, you signed an anti-murder contract! I am so going to sue you for breech of contract.”

    *Action Movie Star Voice*”You will find plenty of lawyers to help you, IN HELL!”

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      Between anti-murder contracts and murder-free zones, we’ve got the potential to end murder in our lifetime.

      NYC2AZ says:
      October 5, 2014 at 11:25

      My plan for the next Demanding Mommies rally is to have a t-shirt made up that says “Murder Free Zone” and then try to get the mommies to sign a petition to make it illegal to murder someone that is wearing the shirt.

      Defensive Gun Use of the Day: 51% Sign Be Damned Edition
      http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/10/daniel-zimmerman/defensive-gun-use-day-5/

  5. avatar Eric says:

    This is what happens when we have liberal teachers and zero tolerance rules. My wife is a teacher… not a liberal… and would look the other way if some child in her class said “pew pew” with a crayon. It is irrational fear of guns… and loaded crayons… that make these nuts put in stupid-a-s rules in place. It is similar to when children are suspended for bringing a plastic butter knife in so they can spread their jam or butter… and getting suspended for bringing a knife to school.

    I would take that school to court. There has to be some kind of law against having a 5 year old sign a contract without the permission of his or her legal guardian (parent).

    1. avatar Kyle in CT says:

      There isn’t, because you can’t sign a legally-binding contract as a minor, in general. Because they aren’t deemed competent to understand the contract, there’s nothing to sue about.

      1. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

        actually, that is partially true. Minors cannot sign contracts because of “competence” but this child was coerced under color of authority into signing the document and there is a question of mental capacity. Frankly, I think the parents have a damn good lawsuit here. Not only was the child traumatized, but the principal took adavantage of her position of authority (granted under color of law) to force a child to execute a purportedly legally binding document on a subject matter well above this child’s ability to understand and accept such responsibility. At a minimum, I would demand the principal’s immediate termination.

        1. avatar Rokurota says:

          You said “color of authority.” Hee.

        2. avatar miforest says:

          they’d laugh at you and throw your kid out of school. a government overseer terminated ? youre dreaming

        3. avatar Alan Longnecker says:

          Can the principal enter into a contract if she’s mentally incompetent?

        4. avatar MarcusAurelius says:

          Dirk, do you know if it’s feasible or possible for the parents to get a restraining order against this principal to keep her away from their kid?

      2. avatar John Galt says:

        No, it’s legally binding as long as it’s signed with a Crayola.

  6. avatar the ruester says:

    Remember that little razor on the crayola box that you would use to sharpen them? Today that’s a NFA item.

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      The problem isn’t what this one girl did with her crayon.

      It’s that it is a part of a rising tide of drawing violence in recent years.

      SOMETHING has to be done!

      Second Grade Student Suspended for Drawing Stick Figure Firing Gun
      http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/21/second-grade-student-suspended-for-drawing-stick-figure-firing-gun/

      School “Bullies” 8-Year-Old Student & Threatens Suspension Over Drawing Of Ninja With Gun
      http://benswann.com/school-bullies-8-year-old-student-threatens-suspension-over-drawing-of-ninja-with-gun/

      Special Needs Child “Suspended Indefinitely” For Drawing A Cartoon Bomb
      http://benswann.com/special-needs-child-suspended-indefinitely-for-drawing-a-cartoon-bomb/

      Boy’s Suspension Upheld Over Violent Crayon Drawing
      http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Violent-Crayon-Drawing-10-Year-Old-Boy-Suspended-Appeals-Court-Montgomery-143888676.html

      Girl’s arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance
      http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/18/new.york.doodle.arrest/

      Middle School Student Suspended for Hangman Doodle
      http://www.wric.com/story/25566223/middle-school-student-suspended-for-hangman-doodle

  7. avatar former water walker says:

    Wow…home school if you can. I had a teacher tell us my 6 year old had to get serious about school because she couldn’t teach him to read. We came close to home schooling. This is a billion times more idiotic.

    1. avatar Yama says:

      Made the descision last year to home school. Best. Descision. Ever. They wanted to put my kid who speaks a little japanese as a second language in an English as a second language tract. Put the nail in the coffin right then. She is well adjusted, and brilliantly smart. Don’t need some school bringing her down!

  8. avatar GreenTriumph says:

    When minors sign contracts they are not legally binding. (As an aside a parent can’t sign away a minors rights). I’d love to have the school system in court.

    1. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

      Parents can sign away certain rights of minors. It depends on which ones. For example, the right to sue can be waived by a parent.

  9. avatar JeffR says:

    If I discovered that my son’s school had coerced him into signing some bogus contract, I would yank him out of that school immediately. I used to think the homeschooling movement was a bit silly, but I am beginning to see the light.

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      At the rate zero tolerance is going, soon public schools with be crayon-free zones.

  10. avatar BillF says:

    If we all signed such a contract every other gun law could be repealed. Right?

  11. avatar ninjaTED says:

    One more reason I’m glad I left the education biz behind. Teaching is a wonderfully fulfilling way to earn a living and give back to the community. Education is a soul-sucking business populated by the small-minded and cowardly creatures known as administrators.

    1. avatar Mk10108 says:

      Nice…came to the same conclusion after attending a few school board meetings.

  12. avatar surlycmd says:

    I can only hope this principal has no kids of her own and is sterile. Her stupidity should not be passed down to another generation.

    1. avatar TheBear says:

      Wanna bet she has 3 or more?

  13. avatar Anonymous says:

    Surely they weren’t serious. Maybe the principal was just being playful? They can’t be that daft.

    1. avatar Jim R says:

      Oh yes they can.

    2. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

      I shiver whenever I hear the words “zero tolerance” or “mandatory sentencing.” The only thing worse than those idiotic laws and regulations are the people who write them (I’m looking at you, lawyers everywhere. You should all dive off a cliff, singly and/or collectively).

      1. avatar John Galt says:

        Along with that zero-tolerance idiocy, is the warning-label idiocy that lawyers come up with.

        I’ve bought almonds that have the following on the package.

        “Ingredients: Almonds.
        Warning: Contains nuts.”

        Nothing else in the package. Just almonds.

        And for those who might be wondering…no, it’s not the “Contents packaged in facility that process peanuts” warning.

  14. avatar 1911girl says:

    Did she sign the contract with the same crayon in question?

    1. avatar cmeat says:

      upstaged by one minute, and by a .45 caliber gal at that.

      1. avatar Rokurota says:

        It’s the manstopper cartridge.

        1. avatar cmeat says:

          then every gal should have one. i only need a female hoard specific cal. due to my “hai karate!” slatherings.

  15. avatar cmeat says:

    did she get to sign the contract in crayon? fleshtone, i hope… oh, wait…

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      blood red.

    2. avatar John Galt says:

      It needs to be a color that fits the mindset of school administrators.

      Something like:

      * Pixie Powder
      * Magic Potion
      * Fuzzy Wuzzy

  16. avatar Mediocrates says:

    if you had any understanding of the Mobile Public School System, you would understand that education and intelligence is not their forte….

    Thank God the Catholic school system in Mobile is robust. Now, you know why so many of the teachers work in the Catholic school system for less pay.

  17. avatar Don Davis says:

    Dang, the little miscreant might just have brought a 152 count box of deadly CRAYOLAS in, and imagine the horror!

    1. avatar Another Robert says:

      The “high capacity” Crayola box! Nobody needs more than 8 crayons…

      1. avatar Avid Reader says:

        God forbid it was an old box with a “flesh” colored crayon in it. That would really send the PC police over the edge.

      2. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

        And it probably had the “lid thingie that goes up”

  18. avatar Russell says:

    You have repeatedly misspelled the school name in your article. Might want to check that.

  19. avatar miforest says:

    homeschool. or at least private school if that is an option.

  20. avatar Hannibal says:

    I’ve seen these “life contracts” (what a scary word) used on mentally disturbed people before… basically as a scroll of anti-liability so the mental health people can say it’s not their fault when the person offs herself\himself and maybe a few others.

    Never heard of it on a kid though. Would have expected it from a different state, though.

    1. avatar Kyle says:

      I say good luck trying to limit liability with those “life contracts” if the person in question is mentally incompetent they do not have the capacity to sign. Even if they were not judged incompetent at the time, It would be pretty easy to have them judged incompetent after the fact and sue the crap outta the person in question.

  21. avatar John M. says:

    It’s long past time to homeschool, people. Government schools do not exist for the purpose of your children’s education. Look it up.

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again:

      Sending your children to public schools is parental malpractice.

  22. avatar notalima says:

    You cannot have a minor child, particularly a 5 year old, participate in the signing of a contract. It is meaningless and someone should be getting sued.

    As with contracts entered into by adults, minors have to fulfill certain prerequisites before a contract is considered enforceable. The primary requirement is having the “capacity” to contract. “Capacity” to contract is questionable when dealing with minors because the rationale is that a minor is regarded as not having sufficient capacity to understand and pass upon questions involving contractual rights. Accordingly, a person dealing with a minor does so at his or her peril and subject to the right of the minor to avoid the contract.

  23. avatar Another Robert says:

    Well, all this talk about contract law has reminded me of a couple of things. One is that each party is supposed to be giving something or giving up something in favor of the other party ( “consideration”, right?) So what is the school supposed to be giving the kid in consideration of her promise not to do herself or anybody else in? The other is that, in a contract with a minor, typically the minor can enforce the contract if they so choose, as against the other party, but the of-age party cannot enforce the contract against the minor. So maybe she should demand whatever consideration the school promised her in return for her promise not to do herself in. And maybe I’m overthinking this too, it is just soooooo flaming ridiculous.

  24. avatar Jarhead1982 says:

    I used their fax machine and faxed a picture of a crayon going PEW PEW PEW to 251-221-1185 and congratulated them on being so politically correct and their membership in the communist party!

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      Be prepared for a knock on your door.

      Administrators don’t take kindly to long-distance mocking.

      High School Contacts Police After Attorney E-Mails Word “Meep” to Principal
      http://jonathanturley.org/2009/11/14/the-lawyers-who-say-meep-high-school-calls-police-after-attorney-says-meep-to-principal/

      1. avatar Jarhead1982 says:

        Funny, wish them luck tracing a pre-paid under a false name!

    2. avatar Russell says:

      The school system uses an efax solution, so your fax was received as an email, and probably discarded. It MIGHT have been forwarded on to the school security department.

      It did not get printed, and did not waste any paper/toner/etc like you might have hoped.

    3. avatar Russell says:

      Congratulations on using rapidfax instead of an actual fax machine though.

  25. avatar Alfonso A. Rodriguez says:

    Where did the school bureaucrats learned they craft? At the Joseph Stalin School of Government? Fascist pigs can only learn when they are taken into court and charged with harassment and mental abuse of a child.

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      Some pigs are more equal than others.

  26. avatar BDub says:

    Maybe I’m missing something here – Of what legal use, or otherwise, is a contract signed by a 5 year old. Short of a muddy paw-print on a residency agreement between you and your pet, I can’t think of a more useless document.

  27. avatar Excedrine says:

    The st00pid! It BURNS! D:

  28. avatar Gene says:

    On another board, someone (who supposedly works in behavioral health) commented that kids safety contracts are done all the time and, though meaning nothing legally, it’s an attempt to get kids to think seriously about their attitudes and behaviors. Personally, I believe this is patently stupid and pointless. Kids that would actually think about their behaviors after going through this aren’t the ones that would typically have behavioral problems that merit anything outside of a “talking to”. Kids that are habitual troublemakers won’t consider their behavior because, if they did, prior attempts for correction would have sufficed – it’s the same stupidity in that seeing a sign (or signing some faux contract) will, in and of itself, prevent poor (or illegal) behavior. Signing this “contract” is meaningless for those that really have the behavioral issues.

    This Principal should be relieved of duty and the School Board should be heavily examined for having entrusted that position to that individual.

  29. avatar vern smith says:

    Did the child use the same ASSAULT -WMD crayon to sign the contract. ?

  30. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

    Partial transcript from last week’s Principal’s staff meeting:

    “We, as educators, are enjoying the distraction and unprofessionalism that is our mindless obsession with finger firearms and pop tart pistols, but we’re just not getting enough nationwide ridicule heaped on us. Anyone have any ideas? And make ’em good! Remember, just last week Nebraska took it to a whole other level with purple penguins. You? Whattayagot?”

    “Well, what about something with crayons? I have a five year old in my class with quite an itchy coloring finger.”

    “Excellent. You’re a credit to whatever third rate state college of education churned you out.”

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      Maybe the 2nd Amendment crowd could adapt the following for firearms and get school to promote “firearms inclusiveness”

      12 easy steps on the way to gender inclusiveness…
      http://www.nebraskafamilyalliance.org/ wp-content/ uploads/ 2014/ 10/ Training-Handouts.pdf

      ———————

      Wouldn’t be that difficult really. Mostly just replace “gender” with “firearms.”

      For example:

      * Have visual images reinforcing FIREARMS OWNERSHIP: pictures of people who don’t fit FIREARMS-OWNER norms.

      * Point out and inquire when you hear others referencing FIREARMS in a binary manner. Ask things like, ”Hmmm. That is interesting. Can you say more about that?” or “What makes you say that? I think of it a little differently.” Provide counter-narratives that challenge students to think more expansively about their notions of FIREARMS.

      * Look for examples in the media that reinforce FIREARMS OWNER stereotypes or binary models of FIREARMS (it won’t be hard; they’re everywherel). When with others, call it out and interrogate it.

      * Be intolerant of openly hostile attitudes or references towards others EVERYTIME you hear or observe them, but also use these as teachable moments. Take the opportunity to push the individual on their statements about FIREARMS. Being punitive may stop the behavior, at least in your presence. Being instructive may stop it entirely.

      * Teach children specific language that empowers them to be proud of who they are, or to defend others who are being mistreated. “Please respect my privacy.” “You may think that, but I don’t.” ”You may not like it, but I do.” ”Hey, they’re caled ’FIREARMS’ for a reason.”

      * Help students recognize ”all or nothing” language by helping them understand the difference between patterns and rules. Teach them phrases like “That may be true for some people, but not all people,” or ‘frequently, but not always,” or “more common and less common.” Avoid using “normal” to define any behaviors.

      * Share personal anecdotes from your own life that reflect FIREARMS inclusiveness. Even better, share examples when you were not FIREARMS inclusive in your thinking, words or behaviors, what you learned as a result, and what you will do differently next time.

      * Do the work yourself. What are your own experiences with FIREARMS? What might be some of your own biases? What assumptions do you make about the FIREARMS of others? Share reflections about your own evolving understandings about FIREARMS.

  31. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    And teachers and school administrators wonder why I humiliate them at every opportunity.

    People like this need to be humiliated, shamed and heckled for their stupidity. It needs to be vicious, personal and relentless.

    That’s the only thing these type of people understand.

  32. avatar Ralph says:

    Not many teachers are Mensa members, administrators are required to have a room temperature IQ and the entire school system hates boys (because they grow up to be men). So I’m not shocked about this kerfuffle. In fact, the stupidity of “educators” and administrators is a constant of life, as predictable as the tides. Anyone who believes otherwise is probably a product of that same system.

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      I’m certainly not surprised at it. I’ve been seeing this crap coming on since the late 80’s.

      But I am paying for this nonsense. And since I’m paying, that means these mental midgets in public education (along with cops, political hacks and bureaucrats of every stripe) have earned my abuse and ridicule, because I’m paying for their stupidity.

      If they don’t want my abuse, then they can find a private sector job. As long as I’m paying, I’m going to get my money’s worth.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Good for you!

        Personally, I want nothing to do with the education system and its minions. I’m concerned that Stupid may be more infectious than Ebola, and much more deadly.

  33. avatar borg says:

    This may be considered a form of child abuse and/or harassment.

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      It’s not child abuse or harassment if The State does it.

  34. avatar Ing says:

    No sense of proportion, no common sense — no evidence of any thinking skills whatsoever, in fact — and no clue on how to work with children at their level. And somehow she made it through college. And became an elementary-school principal.

    Where do they find these people?

    1. avatar Phil COV says:

      The DNC.

    2. avatar John Galt says:

      There are fields…endless fields, were human beings are no longer born. We are grown. For longest time, I wouldn’t belive it…and then I saw the fields with my own eyes.

      Watch them liquefy the dead, so they could be fed intravenously to the living. And standing there, facing the pure horrifying precision, I came to realize the obviousness of the truth.

      What is The Matrix?

      Control.

      – Morpheus
      “The Matrix”

  35. avatar DaveL says:

    So did the principal come up with this idea on her own, or did more than one individual, purporting to be educated adults of sound mind, come together and decide “Yes, that’s a good idea, let’s do THAT?”

  36. avatar Jay-El says:

    I try not to post unless I have something helpful to add … but in this case all I can say is What the hell?

  37. avatar Marcus (Aurelius) Payne says:

    That school should be bankrupted and then razed to the ground.

    Would any of our resident lawyers care to weigh in on whether or not a contract with a 5 year old is legally binding out not, even without coercion?

  38. avatar Biff Baxter says:

    Teachers have become the dumbest people in American society.

  39. avatar Norm says:

    After looking at the principal, I understand the entire event…another Obama puppet!

  40. avatar TwinReverb says:

    Yeah the teacher who did this needs to be fired without retirement or tenure.

  41. avatar JJ48 says:

    Doesn’t saying “pew, pew” instead of “bang, bang” indicate that the pretend gun had an imaginary silencer? Someone should have called the ATF’s Make-Believe Division to check her invisible paperwork!

  42. avatar Raul Ybarra says:

    Sick. Really sick. I really hope the family is considering legal action on this one – and I don’t mean simply paying a settlement. It is not enough for the school to simply back down in these cases.

    They have to do something proactive to undo the damage they have inflicted. If they just have to pay out some cash, frankly, they’ve still won. They’ve gotten their “guns are evil” message into the heads of those kids. As far as they’re concerned it’s and investment and the cost of doing business.

    1. avatar borg says:

      Could the principal be charged with criminal child abuse and/or public indecency and/or anything else.

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