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As Ralph sagely counseled yesterday, don’t mess with old guys. That’s advice two unidentified female hoods would have benefitted from, but they were too busy boosting a car and attempting a home invasion yesterday to have seen our post. And when ID’ing their target, they chose poorly, selecting the home of a suburban Houston gentleman with some snow on the roof and a 20-gauge loaded with buckshot. “‘They knocked on the door several times. There was no answer and at that time they obviously didn’t think anyone was there and they broke a window and gained entry,’ said Walter Stensland with the Harris County Precinct 4 Constable’s Office. But they didn’t get very far . . .

 

After the two made it through the doorway, the homeowner — a 60-year-old man alone inside — shot them once each in the chest.

Both were seriously wounded but are expected to live, most likely at Texas taxpayers’ expense somewhere in which orange is the new black.

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83 Responses to Defensive Gun Use of the Day: Smoothbore Security Edition

    • Lesson learned one will more than likely be a paraplegic and the other is hopefully going to lose their arm, which will make armed robbery a little tricky next time, but they will still breed at least one of them anyways. Tax payers on the hook for millions now, where another 1$ dose of buckshot would have been warranted and a tax break to Texans. Remember just like cops it is not what happened it is what can be proven. Arrange the scene to make sure the evidence matches your story before you call the police or take a chance at never getting out of prison for being naive and still believing you are innocent until proven guilty when we all know it is guilty until proven innocent.

      • NO. They ain’t worth the bullet.
        Prisons are like trash dumps — the cost of maintenance to keep the streets clean.

      • Uh….that’s one way to go. Or….you can make sure you’re in the right and acting lawfully in the first place, then call your lawyer and STFU. (The hypothetical shooter, that is, not you.)

        Arranging the scene is also known as evidence tampering. It’s kind of a big deal. Not only is that a crime in itself, but if the police suspect you of that, it will destroy your credibility with them and with the jury.
        And once the cops’ suspicions harden, you will face a jury.

        Even if you had originally been justified based on the facts, trying to bolster your defense with evidence tampering could well get you convicted of both crimes.

      • Considering he got two shots off accurately I think the 20ga choice was just fine. Anyone who tampers with the scene of a rightous shoot is an idiot. Anyone who tampers with the scene of an unjustified shoot is probably an idiot too.

      • Really? Cause this seems like the perfect time to argue the merits of various gauges of boomsticks.
        12g v 20g, anyone?

        • He may not have been able to hit two well placed shots with a 12 gauge. The less recoil of the 20 gauge makes it universal for home defense where your kids or wife or elderly may have to use it. Personally, I like the 12 gauge.

        • 12 vs 20? Can I just haz cheeseburger? A 12 has some recoil, more like a gentle bump to me, a pump action with 00 short brass. Maybe I have been doing it wrong? The 20 has more snap than recoil, with #4 buck, little buggers are so cute when they bark. I do not want to know what either feels like from the other end. I am 5’4, or, 5’6 depending on who you believe, me or the VA. (I try not to think about how short I am). Was 120# when shooting the M1, M14, M16, few other calibers and attachments. Now 150# at 70 years old, there are some firearms I would rather throw at you than shoot them. But, not many.

      • Disagree, 00-buck out of a 12ga would have led to fatalities most likely, thus saving the state from the expense and hassle of incarcerating the garbage. Still, I guess at that age getting that recoil in the shoulder could be particularly painful.

        • “At that age”? He’s only sixty, fer Pete’s sake. It’s not like we’re talking about a veteran from the Great War here.

        • I shoot trap every week with a diverse group, including 14-year-old girls and elderly men, all shooting 12 gauge and running 50 to 100 rounds through them in an evening. I understand that a defense load is going to kick harder than a target load, but I won’t go along with the idea that the 12 gauge is unshootable for the light weight, the young, or the elderly. Practice is the key.

          I’m not saying everyone should use a 12 gauge for home defense, I’m just saying it’s a viable option.

    • I’m 59, but I do practice “gender discrimination”–mainly when I’m speaking Spanish or German, where it matters…

  1. Got enough ads at the end of that article, geez.

    Anyways, don’t mess with old folks, they won’t fight you, they’ll just kill you… Or wound you really bad, if your lucky.

    • Oh my god i thought it was just me. Seriously, what’s with all the ads now in the “you may also be interested in…” section? It’s really impeding on my TTAG time. Most of my navigation happens through that list on the bottom.

        • I forget that I run Adblock sometimes until I try to look at a TTAG article on my tablet and there are more ad pictures than words on the page it seems.

        • Oh the right side bar, box’s? the only thing i see over there is “Gear review” and a pic of KJW holding a Lever Gun and wearing a black CB hat.

          And to the STORY good shot, me thinks!

          a 20ga lean against the wife’s side of the bed and a 20ga next to each of the kids bed 13yo and 14yo.
          An 870 12ga w/ 8shot ext. sits next to my side loaded with alt 3″ rounds of 00buck and flechette, I live in the woods and some areas around here have dense foliage.

      • I was just thinking, chest hit with buckshot at in-the-house distance, and neither one died? Wonder how common it is for someone to take a 20 or 12 ga buckshot blast to the chest and live. Regardless, I’d assume it would have a high probability of taking the fight right out of someone, which is the important thing.

        [edit saw below that there may have been considerable mass between the skin and ribs…]

  2. Tragic. Couldn’t he have offered them herbal tea and gluten-free cookies and just sat and talked it all out?

    • I like the sarcasm coming from you it illustrates the Liberal Logic very well. On the original story there was some diseased liberal saying the guy shouldn’t have shot them because they were girls that couldn’t steal more than twenty-five pounds of other peoples stuff and the cops would have found them in an hour. The old man did exactly what he was supposed to do and his twenty gauge almost did except for hitting the feral savages in the fat of their breasts instead of going up top. Follow up shots woulda been good it is Texas after all, which makes that legal.

    • That’s what “Trixie” thinks (commenter at the original article). Liberals–they really are that stupid.

      • Hence it is a mental disease of hateful emotions that can’t be cured through logic or understanding. In the not to distant future if things keep devolving like they are I believe lead will be the only suitable treatment of that particular mental ailment. Winners write history and build a future where as Liberals forget about the future and only care about how they were wronged in the present.

  3. 20 ga. buckshot chest wounds and they both survived? A couple of very lucky “ladies”. At typical household range, that should have blown a ragged thumb sized hole clean thru them.

    • This is partly speculative on my part, but I did watch the video of the EMTs rolling a heavily-laden gurney toward the helicopter.

      That buckshot had to pass through quite a bit of adipose tissue before it reached the ribcage.

    • From the looks of the mounds on their way to the helo’s, I’d say that these women had sufficient body mass to absorb lots of damage before the buckshot penetrated into their vitals too far.

    • Despite all the gel-test arguments for #1 buck, I still think sectional density is my friend, and the physics formula applies to round pellets just as it does to semi-cylindrical bullets. I don’t think I need 15 pellets rather than 12 (per ounce). I do think I’d like to be sure that one of those 12 gets through the leather, denim, and 12 or 14 inches of blubber….and still has enough gas to be effective. Maximizing “total frontal area of lead” at the cost of smaller holes and less penetration, just to gain three extra pellets, sounds like a deal a politician would make….for a fee.

      Oh, and 12 gauge. What’s two or four rounds of painful shoulder when a person’s unlikely to experience it more than once or twice in a lifetime. (For practice he could put on a pad and shoot light loads.) For those who hate recoil, including the elderly, a suitably furnished AR really does make a lot of sense. Or a Benelli M4, which produces very little felt recoil with 1 1/8 ounce loads…and does not offer short stroking problems.

      • I agree with the 12 bore and buckshot. I live in a 2 story so I have one stashed on each floor.

        But my wife is only 5 foot tall and not a die hard gunny. For her a .38 revolver and a youth model 20 bore. She really can’t reach the controls very well on anything bigger.

      • At the distances we’re talking about, everything that a 12ga will do, a 20ga will do just as well. Maybe just slightly less messy.

        Also, at this distance, I very much doubt there’s any meaningful difference in penetration (including denim etc) between 00 and #1. Both would still be travelling bunched together.

      • He had multiple home invaders and may have needed to shoot quickly. The 20 ga may have been exactly what he needed.

  4. That’s my town! It’s pretty calm here, but lately we’ve been suffering an increase of crime. Maybe things will slow down again. Funny that I should hear about it here. Off to check the mass media.

  5. “The homeowner was unharmed. So far, no charges have been brought against him, and none likely will insofar as Texas is one of thirty states with a “castle doctrine.” This is a law that designates a person’s home as a place in which he has certain protections and immunities permitting him, under certain circumstances, to use force to defend himself against an intruder.”

    What are the 20 states without a “castle doctrine.”?

    According to Wikipedia, its only District of Columbia, Nebraska, New Mexico, South Dakota and Vermont

    • Look at the neighborhood in the TV reporting. This is a dense, upper-end neighborhood. Launching rifle rounds hither and yon isn’t a smart move, unless you’re a cop and can walk way with sovereign immunity to your donut break and not give a rat’s ass who/what was shot by the overpenetration or any misses you racked up.

        • Yes, even 9mm JHP rounds overpenetrate significantly, not to mention a proper rifle round. There’s just no way you’re launching that much lead at that high a velocity and not have it zip through.

    • Aside from DG’s cogent reason not to shoot 7.62 x 51 in a crowded neighborhood, consider the effect on YOU: If you believe it is a good solution, seek a chance to shoot one indoors at night. I took the chance to fire a variety of SD items in a small room about the size of my home office. I can, without fear of contravention, tell you that you will wish you were shooting .45ACP rather than 10mm, and especially (with ARs) that you were shooting a longer barrel (18 inches in my case, with a flash hider, not a muzzle brake) rather than a 11.5 inch SBR. The nature and amount of muzzle flash and muzzle blast vary tremendously, and can have an incapacitating effect on the shooter, never mind the neighbors. 7.62 indoors at night is completely out of the question. The .45ACP 200 grain Gold Dots were tolerable, as was the 77 grain Federal Gold Medal Match from the 18 inch AR barrel. The SBR (no suppressor) was hideous both in blast and flash. There really should be a range with a room for people to test this stuff out. It is what matters, especially if you have multiple perps to deal with. Or so it seems to me. I’ve since put electronic ear pro in three convenient places in my home.

  6. The Appleseed folks have a great spiel about “Dangerous Old Men”.

    Even if you think you don’t need the training (you might be surprised), it’s worth going to hear.

    • That same story popped into my mind yesterday while reading the Old Guy comments, I had to google his name as I didnt want to provide misinformation, as the Samuel Whittemore story is a GREAT read.

  7. Since it’s Halloween, I’ll point out a good reason that these two “ladies” weren’t killed. The guy who shot them might have to spend the rest of his days alone in his house with their ghosts. ooOOOooooh!

  8. There is a reason I have a 12 gauge and load it with 00. But, I love a 20 gauge too. In my circumstance over penetration is not a major concern, but, I do not discount it either. Once you turn those things loose, can not take them back. I do have another advantage, a Scot Terrier that clears the house like someone trained him to do it. (he’s adopted). Altho, so far, his alerts have come up empty, he is not a barker in the night, he rumbles, and I roll out, glasses and shotgun with light, and off we go. Keeps us both on our toes.

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