Self-Defense Tip: Hang Up On the 911 Operator (V2)

You may recall that a 911 operator emailed TTAG to contradict an article advising people calling 911 to give the operator the salient details of a home invasion – your address, where you are inside the house, what you look like and where the bad guys may be – and then hang up. I stand by my advice. And offer the above 911 recording as evidence. Although it has a happy ending – “What was that?” “Did you think you could beat me half to death?” – riddle me this . . .

what good did the 911 operator do here besides calling the cavalry? What might have happened if the home owner hadn’t been armed and didn’t put the phone down and STFU and hide before the cops arrived? And what if the adrenalin-infused homeowner had said something that could have been used against her in court?

In short, you don’t need someone to calm you down when facing a deadly threat. You need to concentrate and fight for your life. [h/t Rob]

comments

  1. avatar SleeStac says:

    Amen, if I’m delivering a baby, I’m going to ask the operator for advise. If I’m fighting bad guys, what helpful advise could they possibly have to offer.

    1. avatar Paul says:

      I respectfully disagree. When I teach personal protection, I almost always advise that you should call 911, establish contact and then put the phone down. But you should continue to advise 911 of your situation, address, number and description of your assailents if known, where you are and what you look like. Also tell them whether you are armed. By putting the phone down, 911 will continue to hear and record what you say but your hands will be free to control your gun(s) AND you won’t have to listen to all the BS coming out of their mouth.

      1. avatar Jon says:

        In that case, I don’t think the person above you is disagreeing with you, they just don’t see the sense in getting advice from an operator.

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          After you give your specifics, the only good advice you can get is “Breathe, aim… Squeeeeze the trigger.”

      2. avatar SleeStac says:

        As the other responder mentioned, our approaches aren’t mutually exclusive. Its hard for me to understand though how a recording of the events could help you out. I think that the more evidence you have of the situation, the more likely you’ll have that evidence used against you. Personally, I’d prefer to concentrate solely on the fight.

        Also, I don’t want to malign 911 operators. They have a tough and necessary job. They just don’t really have any advise to offer when it comes to shooting bad guys.

        1. avatar SleeStac says:

          Arrgggh – the word is “advice” not “advise” as I misspelled it in my two posts above.

        2. avatar Bob72 says:

          If you have properly trained for this kind of encounter, and you respond how you were trained, the recording may help you. I suspect the recording would likely scare the crap out of the jury putting them in your shoes. Of course, only if you did it right, though. If you can, let the responders know what is happening, where you are, and where the invaders are. You do not know how many friends the bad guy brought to the event, so consider the police reinforcements. If you die, you won’t get a chance to defend your actions in court. It is after shots are fired that you definitely want a lawyer, for that is when the lawyers and detectives may twist your words. That is when you say something like “I was scared for my life. Did you arrest him/her. He/she was wearing blah. I apologize, but I would like my lawyer present.” It doesn’t hurt to look traumatized, because if you are human, you will be traumatized.

        3. avatar Brum says:

          Yes, traumatized, that is the key. One way to put a quick end to questioning by an over exuberant police office is… request an ambulance for yourself, at your first request for medical assistance they have to call for medical aid to you immediately, or risk a major lawsuit if you go into shock or cardiac arrest. Your cause is… fear of a “heart attack”, do not say “I’m having a heart attack”, (unless you actually are) instead say, “I fear I may have a heart attack”. From there on, ignore the officer’s questions. The emergency room doctor or your personal physician will keep the cops at bay after that, at least till you can get over of the shock enough to recall details clearly.

        4. 911 recordings almost hung George Zimmerman….lsfdknmgfjiasg[o was interpreted to be “coons”.

      3. avatar Sid says:

        I just don’t want them to record what is said after the loud bangs. Something like:

        You know, we used to outsource this kind of thing. But what we found was the countries we outsourced to had unreliable power grids. Very Third World. You’d turn on a switch – power wouldn’t come on, and then tempers would get short. People would resort to pulling fingernails. Acid drips on bare skin. The whole exercise would become counterproductive. But here, the power’s stable. Here, there’s a nice even flow. Here, you can flip a switch and the power stays on all day. Where is she?

    2. avatar notalima says:

      This recording is a perfect example of ‘when seconds count the police are only 7 min away”

      I guess Shannon Watts and ‘no defensive gun use’ will conveniently disregard this as well.

  2. avatar Hal says:

    Good advice

  3. avatar Frank Masotti says:

    Your right on the hang up, after you tell them you are hanging up. Then shoot to kill. When seconds count police are minutes away, and the 911 operator might as well be on the moon as much direct help they can be. Other then report to the police that are minutes away that you shoot to kill.

    1. avatar Paul says:

      Wrong and wrong. Don’t hang up (as per my comment above) and you don’t shoot to kill; shoot to stop the threat and then STFU.

      1. avatar jack in the Crack says:

        If you have come to the point that you need to shoot another human being, you will have exhausted every other option; you will have mentally ran through your CCW training and your best understanding of your state’s self defense laws all in the split of a second. You have determined there is no other choice but to shoot to kill and are willing to accept all the legal consequences that entails. One of you is going to die; it’s you or him and you pick him.

        If that’s not you, leave your gun at home.

        Otherwise, you shoot to kill, and his side of the story will have to be told by forensics. Dead men don’t testify.

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          I would rather be sued by his estate than the other way around.

        2. avatar Herb says:

          “Hey, ossifer, I be already gibs myself up and dat racist shot me anyhow!”

          Dead perps tell no lies.

        3. avatar SleeStac says:

          Dead men may not testify but old blog comments do and they never go away

        4. avatar Alan Rose says:

          One really good reason to get a competent defense attorney in your corner ASAP, recently in my area a guy was found Not Guilty of (something) after firing at cops trying to break into his (wrong) house, because the jury saw he only fired 2 shots in self defense. If I follow the standard training of “shoot until no longer a threat” and empty a mag, will that automatically make me guilty to the jury?

  4. avatar NV says:

    Here’s an idea. You did nothing wrong by acting in self-defense, so just don’t call the police at all!

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Well, if you’re at home, they might be needed to clean up the mess. Otherwise, I agree.

    2. avatar Scrubula says:

      Calling them is still the best idea even if you are ready to defend yourself.
      If it’s a drunk guy banging on your back porch window, and he never enters the house or threatens your life, the cops still need to show up to take him away. If you have to shoot someone in self defense, 911 will have called the hospital for you and police are necessary to legally process the event.
      Intentionally choosing not to call them could get you in legal trouble.

    3. avatar Hannibal says:

      NV will be known as inmate 3352014 if he ever has to defend himself.

  5. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    “Where did you shoot him?”

    Right. Like this poor woman should drop everything she’s doing and become an EMT in the meantime.

    Morons.

    Public employees need to get a friggin’ clue. You work for us. Either do something useful and productive, or STFU and get your snout out of the public feed bunk.

    1. avatar Mark says:

      Exactly. What difference does it make at that point where she shot him? Once he heard that the intruder was shot, he pushes a button to dispatch an ambulance. Doesn’t matter if it’s a flesh wound or head shot, he’s sending an ambulance to the scene.

    2. avatar Gunr says:

      She should have said, “How the hell should I know, maybe I shot his dick off??”

    3. avatar mountocean says:

      But I loved her answer,
      “In my house”.

    4. avatar Mediocrates says:

      All pertinent information is passed along to responding personnel so they can do a better job. Here in Cobb County Georgia, 911 operators have to follow a protocol, and you can thank your fellow litigious citizens for that. The questions are literally spelled out and required, in order.

      You have no idea the stupid crap they have to put up with, and since you never will, you can go on pretending you’re right.

      1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

        So, basically, what you are saying is that the citizens of Cobb County, Georgia have allowed policy to be set that protects Cobb County, Georgia from lawsuits at the expense of potential victims of violent crime?

        Talking to someone on the phone in a life-and-death situation occupies space inside the intended victim’s OODA Loop that is better utilized with sensory input and signal processing and little things like “threat assessment” during those moments.

        It is completely indefensible to expect or require someone to “talk on the phone” while they may be struggling for their lives. I might go so far to say that would even be immoral.

        This has been studied, by the way. “Talking” in high-threat situations dramatically slows down response times, even talking to the person posing the threat. I seriously doubt talking to on the phone to someone that is not even there would do otherwise.

        1. avatar Mediocrates says:

          I don’t see where I said that at all. I know not a single 911 operator that would want someone to get hurt because they were distracted. Nice try though.

        2. avatar Mediocrates says:

          btw if you hang up on a 911 call before the responders get there they are required to call you back.

        3. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          I know not a single 911 operator that would want someone to get hurt because they were distracted. Nice try though.

          Not really a nice try at anything…just responding your statement that operators are required, due to litigations to ask a bunch of questions.

          Here’s a tip: The operator should shut the hell up. The person on the sharp end of that phone call has other things to think about that are far, far, far, far more important than ANYTHING that operator has to say, such as

          TRYING TO STAY ALIVE

          As for calling them back, fine. Whatever. They don’t have to answer.

        4. avatar MikeP says:

          Mediocrates, you changed the premise in mid-debate. The issue isn’t someone’s feelings or intentions, but cold, hard, unforgiving fact. I’m sure the op on the other end of the phone doesn’t desire harm to come to the person they’re speaking with, but in a life-or-death situation where miliseconds can make the difference, a fusillade of pointless questions (“where did you shoot him?”) distracts and can make the difference. And yes, I said and mean pointless. From the POV of the person under duress at that time. Sure, the point of the questions is so responding officers and paramedics have a more holistic grasp on the situation … when they finally arrive. But that then means the questions are for the edification of not-yet-there responders, and not the person holed up in the bathroom with a potential lethal threat moments away. I personally prefer the “give an assessment of the situation and particulars, then set the phone down but leave the line open” protocol. Would perhaps be better to have a hands-fee setup so you can still communicate with both hands free, but who has that just laying around, when your gat should be the first thing you secure anyway, *BEFORE* calling 911. And the droning of endless, pointless questions in one ear would still be a distraction. Whether the op “feels” that way or not.

        5. avatar Mediocrates says:

          your point that the people of Cobb County are screwing themselves, because the Department of Public Safety is the people of Cobb County, is noted. It’s definitely a catch 22.

          Also, as a citizen the assumption that you are required to talk to the 911 operator is not true. Put the phone down but don’t hang up. I think that’s the prevailing sentiment here. 911 operators, much like the rest of humanity, for the most part, aren’t stupid. THey’ve been through this. A lot.

        6. avatar Alan Rose says:

          And when the homeowner’s phone rings, it is a dead giveaway to the invader where you are. I suggest disabling the phone.

      2. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        Chit chatting with the operator is a distraction. If you’re attending to that phone at all, once the call has been made and key information communicated, then you’re going to focus on the phone itself. In this call, she almost dropped he gun (and the phone), for trying to hold both at the same time. That’s a distraction that could get her killed for poor shot placement or even losing the firearm entirely. It could also send a round in an errant manner, perhaps into your neighbor’s house or your kid’s room.

        Beyond that, the evidence of break in and assault is all already there. You’re already in the clear legally. Getting gabby on the phone only provides grist to a D.A. to prosecute you, or to a plaintiff’s lawyer to sue you. All they need is something, anything, and the spin doctors pounce on it and practice their malicious medicine. Don’t give them anything.

        Think of GZ: he stayed on that phone long enough for the operator to tell him to remain in his vehicle. Whether that was good advice is debatable, but that the operator had no formal authority to direct him to stay put, is not. He was free to go wherever he had a legal right to be. Nevertheless, he “disobeyed police orders to stay in the truck” quickly became the narrative. Police orders? Try a glorified receptionist’s stern suggestion.

        You don’t want something like that coming back on you in the media and court. Nor would you want recorded what this woman blurted out about demanding the invader not move. Suppose he made a lunge at her from the ground with a knife after having been shot, and she had to stop the threat again. A lawyer could argue he was just in the throes of agony and writhing, while the trigger happy homeowner executed a now-defenseless man.

        With a recording, now that point has to be argued and assessed in light of her “don’t move” utterance, whereas had that phone call ended after emergency details were communicated, there’d be no utterance to discuss. Just a second shot into an obvious home invader.

        1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

          Think of GZ: he stayed on that phone long enough for the operator to tell him to remain in his vehicle.

          Still such a common misconception, after all this time. The NEN operator never told Zimmerman to stay in his vehicle. Zimmerman was already out of his vehicle, trying to acquire a visual on Martin (a visual he had lost before exiting his vehicle, and being asked by the NEN operator to tell him where Martin was).

          As Zimmerman walked along the sidewalk he had last seen Martin take, trying to see where Martin went/was, the exchange went as follows:

          NEN: “Are you following him?”

          GZ: “Yeah”

          NEN: “We don’t need you to do that.”

          GZ: “Okay.”

          (And as a bonus: there’s no evidence that Zimmerman in any way materially disregarded that statement. In fact, it is obvious by the drop in wind noise on the recording that Zimmerman stopped moving, and remained that way for the duration of the call. It is his contention, not refuted by any evidence, that after ending the call, he turned around and started walking back toward his vehicle.)

      3. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        I don’t know where this call took place, but presumably there are industry standards and professional best practices which people share and adhere to.

        What purpose, in the immediacy of an ongoing attack, would the question “Where did you shoot him” have? What decision or what action, based on the caller’s wildly unreliable guestimate of where the bullet struck the attacker, would now take place that could not have but for having asked that pointless question and heard its worthless answer?

        It’s just potentially deadly chit chat out of an adrenaline junkie 911 operator who wants to be in on the action from a remove.

        Communicate the emergency then hang up.

      4. avatar Rusty Chains says:

        Mediocrates, I was going to ask what their protocol/questions are, but I am not sure if my call would route to Kennesaw since they now have their own 911 or if it would go to Cobb 911 depending on what cell tower my phone bounces off (I am in Cobb). I am definitely not gonna hang up on them but have plenty of practice ignoring what the wife has to say over the phone while dealing with what is in front of me. Hard to talk on the phone with electronic hearing protection in place anyway.

    5. avatar Yellow Devil says:

      I think too many people make the mistake by taking advice instead of an opinion from bureaucrats and officials.

  6. avatar Hasdrubal says:

    Depending on what you’re likely to say, it might also work to drop the phone without hanging up. If there’s an audio record of you saying “stay back, drop the knife,” or something similar, it could help later.

    If instead you say “plea bargain that,” after shooting, or “blink and you’ll die in the dark,” it might be less useful in court.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      In most circumstances, I anticipate calling 911 after the fact, or not at all. There is normally not going to be anything they can do to help me, and I have other issues to contend with to defend myself. When I’m certain I have all the wherewithal to defend myself, and I still have a moment, sure. And dropping the phone without hanging up is a good plan.

      1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        Potential scenarios are infinite and there’s no one size fits all approach, but I’d come down the opposite and anticipate calling 911 first.

        We have well reinforced exterior doors that are not going to be kicked in instantly. We have furniture in front of windows that would have to be climbed over after smashing the windows. We’ve reinforced and routinely lock our bedroom and hall way doors at night. Plus we do have an alarm. So we’re confident the element of surprise won’t weigh too heavily in an invader’s favor.

        We’d want to get police and ambulance on the way as soon as possible, because there’s still no guarantee that we’d be the last ones standing after the fight and could still make the call.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Jeez. I’m glad I don’t live where you do! I haven’t locked my doors in 20 years, and around 20 of them are made of glass anyway, never mind kicking them down, just throw a rock. Had a tense afternoon a few years back while the cops were searching for a couple of armed robbers in our neighborhood, OC’d my .45 (illegal) instead of my concealed .380 while escorting my granddaughter home from the school bus, otherwise our worst threat has been water moccasins in the lake. You sound like your next move will be to a fortress.

      2. avatar Chip Bennett says:

        Call recording duration: 7 minutes.

        0 Minutes: call initiated, burglar attempting home invasion
        3 Minutes: intruder gains entry
        3:30 Minutes: intruder finds, attacks homeowner; homeowner shoots attacker
        6:30 Minutes: responding-as-fast-as-they-can police arrive

        It’s no knock on police (I’m sure they truly did arrive as quickly as they could), but this call supports the adage, “when seconds count, police are only minutes away.”

        The intruder wasted no time in finding and attacking the homeowner, who, without the gun, almost certainly would have been dead well before the police arrived.

        This was one of the overwhelming number of defensive gun uses that did not result in a fatality (at least, apparently not; the intruder was still alive at the end of the recording), while preventing a highly probable murder.

        I don’t care what police are responding, if I’m that woman and the intruder is still alive, I’m keeping my gun trained on him until the police actually take custody of him.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      Or, as in one famous case, “You don’t look too bad, here’s another.”

  7. avatar sota says:

    “blink and you’ll die in the dark,”

    that made me laugh right there.

    1. avatar Dan A says:

      Haha, me too. It sounds like something Raylan Givens would say

  8. avatar Scrubula says:

    I wouldn’t exactly recommend hanging up, but simply tell the operator that you need to be ready to defend yourself and that you are putting the phone down.
    If you want to hang up, I would still recommend telling them why. Criminals are not above blatant lies to try to make the victimized homeowner seem like the aggressor.

  9. avatar John Boch says:

    Sigh.

    Call 911.

    Give your address.
    There’s an intruder in my home. I’m in my bedroom at (fill in the blank location of bedroom in your home.) (Note if any other family members present.) Send police now!

    Then, put the phone down and shout:

    INTRUDER.
    YOU’RE IN MY HOME.
    I AM ARMED.
    I HAVE CALLED THE POLICE.
    IF YOU COME IN HERE, I WILL SHOOT YOU.
    LEAVE NOW!

    And wait for the cops to arrive.

    Most of the time, an intruder will leave hearing this.

    If they don’t leave most PDQ, that’s also a clue. They either want you, something you have, or they are out of their mind. In any event, any intruders who advance on you while you have them at gunpoint probably need perforating in a rapid and promiscuous fashion.

    John

    1. avatar Bear The Grizzly says:

      Yeah because I want to alert an unknown assailant to my whereabouts and that I’m armed. I guess I should also rack my shotgun a few times to let him know I’m super serious?

      1. avatar Indiana Tom says:

        I was thinking of holding up a neon sign saying here I am!

      2. avatar Hannibal says:

        You’re not Jason Borne and they’re probably trying to score a fix by selling your stereo, not looking to get blown away. And if you do have to shoot them you’ll be good on the DGU.

        1. avatar Tazchaz says:

          No, you’re not Jason Bourne. If they break into my home it will get them two to the chest and one to the head, nuff said.

        2. avatar Bear The Grizzly says:

          My stereo isn’t worth taking the risk that he might get pissed off if I try and act tough. I also don’t live in a state where I’m required to inform an intruder I am armed or anything else.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Promiscuous perforation? I’m liking that. If I can find a place to put it, consider it stolen.

  10. avatar ThomasR says:

    No, it makes total sense to stay on the phone with the 911 operator; for those that don’t have a gun to defend themselves. For those people, the 911 recordings might give the only slight clue as to who the predators were after they have raped, tortured and in screaming agony. finally killed you. and this can be done in 5 minutes or less, much more quickly than any police response. Just look at how long the six minutes were in listening to the tape. That is a long time to do some horrendous……stuff.

    This Is why home carry is more important than carrying in public, in my opinion.

  11. avatar Tori S says:

    I couldn’t finish listening. The condescending attitude of the 911 operator was evident immediately. When it got to asking where in the intruder’s body she shot him, I had to stop listening, I was so angry. What a f’ing moron.

    I can’t tell anyone what to do, but as for me, I will call 911 if I can, but although I may leave the line open, I will most certainly and absolutely NOT stay on the phone with them.

    1. avatar Jon says:

      Makes perfect sense. You have more gun control with both hands, and focusing on what the operator has to say doesn’t allow you to focus on defending yourself – what makes the operator think they can defend you over the phone?! Ridiculous! It makes just as much sense as asking a blind person to tell you where the safest place in your house is.

  12. avatar Larry says:

    Well as some one who has plugged up a couple hundred bullet wounds,it is nice to know before hand where they were shot.

    Sure we’ll cut the clothes off,roll them and look for more holes,exits and such.

    As far as ambulances ,there are of course,differant levels ,with personal of varying degrees of certifications and experience ,so it’s nice to send the correct one and all. Sure most shootings will bring an ALS if ones free. If all that’s free is a basic,if it’s a chest wound then perhaps you’ll also get a fly car or supervisor .

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      PSAP operator is not going to get any useful info to the FD or EMS crew in any case. Too busy working for the cops.

    2. avatar Jon says:

      If it was the home owner who was shot, then sure, it applies, but if it was the intruder who was shot, then it doesn’t matter where they were shot.

    3. avatar Alpo says:

      That’s fine. The homeowner can tell the responding officers where and how many times the perp was shot and they can convey that to the rescue squad.

      It’s really not necessary to distract the cornered victim when there might be more criminals coming at her.

  13. avatar DaveM says:

    When seconds count help is only 6:35 minutes away
    The dispatcher was more of a distraction than help
    If I am every in a situation with a known prowler I will call 911, as soon as they enter my home I will drop the phone and concentrate on defending myself with both hands

    1. avatar Colt Magnum says:

      Agreed. I want both hands free and both ears open so I can keep track of the threat as much as possible.

      1. avatar DaveM says:

        911 recording will either help me or hang me which has already broken STFU rule
        Call 911 or STFU?

        1. avatar Hannibal says:

          Depends if you are defending yourself or not. Which one is it?

    2. avatar Jon says:

      This call is a great demonstration on why people should be allowed to bear arms.

      She repeatedly asks him where the cops are.

      Even when at the exact moment she was directly in danger, and after she had taken care of danger, the answer was:
      “THEY’RE ON THE WAY!”

      …… Yup, if you’re ever in danger: Just call the cops. “They’re on the way.”

    3. avatar Indiana Tom says:

      Help is 30 minutes away!

  14. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    Shoot first and answer questions later, I say.

    BTW, is there a crib note version? I positively loathe listening to 911 calls and couldn’t get 30 seconds into the video.

  15. avatar Matt in Maine says:

    If there is a perforated perp in my house, I don’t really care how long it takes for the ambulance to get there or to provide any details as to the extent of said perp’s injuries as to increase the odds of survival and thusly increase the taxpayers burden.

    1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

      You’d probably be more concerned with how long it takes Serve Pro to get there.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Hah! I bet there are places in the US where Serve Pro would arrive before the police!

  16. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    When you call, how long you converse with a dispatcher, and when you hang-up are context sensitive.

    Keep the following in mind:

    Prolonged interaction with a 911 dispatcher is beneficial if you can provide detailed intelligence which enables police to respond quickly and accurately when they arrive.

    Prolonged interaction with a 911 dispatcher is detrimental if your efforts to provide detailed intelligence interfere with your mental and physical abilities (including sight and hearing) to defend yourself.

    If I were by myself and circumstances allowed, I would call 911 to identify the situation and myself and then set the phone down to focus all of my assets on the threat at hand. If I had family and circumstances allowed, I would have a family member call 911 to identify the situation and provide ongoing intelligence while remaining family members focus all of their assets on the threat at hand.

    Choose wisely.

  17. avatar Neil D says:

    Depends on the situation, of course. But I am certainly not going to get on the phone if I think someone is in my home and talk to 911. At least not until I am sure there is no longer a threat to me or to my family. After that, again depending on the situation, I may call 911 and give them the basic information that they need to get there with help and that is it. No more than that. Probably would hang up after that if they kept prodding me for more information that I was not willing or prepared to give them.

  18. avatar JR_in_NC says:

    Man, that painful to listen to. The 911 operator could have easily gotten that woman killed.

    “911, how can I help?”

    “Someone is breaking into my home. I’ve got a gun in my hand and I’m really scared.”

    “Okay, cops are on the way.”

    That’s all he needs to say. The rest of that DOES NOT HELP. I’ve answered exigent calls of “someone is in my house” and none of that crap he was talking to her about is helpful anyway.

    More “statist, and we are in charge” crap, really. That’s my read.

    All that crap he was asking her is stuff the cops on the scene (or later) can establish in the post-incident investigation, once the emergency is settled.

    Also, question for the disarmament crowd: how long was it from the time the bg entered the home until the cops got there? Had she not been armed, what could he have done in that time, perhaps to eliminate a witness?

    But I got to say…this woman is my Gun Hero of the Day. “Don’t get up or I’ll shoot you again!”

    Right. Freaking. On.

  19. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    Let the Wife play chatty Kathy with the 911 operator. You cover the hallway with the 870.

    1. avatar Retired LEO says:

      My wife has the shotgun on her side of the bed. After having trained & certified 911 operators get me shot at by not asking if anyone had a gun in the house on a domestic. Tell me to disarm when off-duty & house being broken into after a dgu, then not telling the 26 minute later arriving cars that anyone was down hang up the phone you’ll be safer. If your area has automatic location 911 call say I need police & hang up. The cars responding should be given the call as a 911 hang-up and handle with a higher sense of urgency/safety on the pd side.

      Also courts have ruled that simply using the STFU rule by standing mute or asking for a lawyer pre miranda can be used against you. So knowing and using your rights can be used against you, welcome to the courts of the socialist republic of Amerikka one nation under
      the thumb of Chicago trained radicals.

  20. avatar Skyler says:

    After listening to this audio, I am wondering what is the point of calling 911 at all? The call did nothing to help this poor woman, except to distract her. And then the cops were coming in to what was an armed burglary, and she was holding a gun. I think I’d rather have the situation under control before I call 911.

    I don’t think I would say you shouldn’t call 911, but I’ll have to think of why I should. They came pretty quickly, but no where near fast enough to be of any help.

  21. avatar Phil COV says:

    7 minutes. Not bad. 4 minutes after he was shot but still. I think the advice to drop the phone is good. In that event we need to focus on survival.

  22. avatar Patrick Hayes says:

    WOW! That was intense….
    As a LEO this proves the point…when seconds counts the cops were like 8 minutes away. This is a fact. We have to get there….it takes time that citizens don’t have. Protect yourself of be a victim.

    1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      And what urban dwellers don’t realize is that in rural or semi-rural areas, the police/deputies/etc might be 20+ minutes away. Sometimes here in Wyoming in the winter, what might be 15 or fewer minutes away in summer, turns to 30+ in winter.

      That would be a rather long time to be playing telephone with the 911 operator.

      1. avatar Jon says:

        ” what might be 15 or fewer minutes away in summer, turns to 30+ in winter.

        That would be a rather long time to be playing telephone with the 911 operator.”

        That’s like a man waiting for his girlfriend to get ready….except at the end of this waiting game, you don’t get to go to the movies.

  23. avatar RetroG says:

    After I’ve got a weapon in hand and everyone in the house accounted for, I might call 911 if I have the time. I’m sure as hell not going to play 20 questions with the operator, they know from my call where I’m located at, and to send the cops/EMTs. I’ll answer their questions when my lawyer shows up. Who gets called after the immediate incident is resolved.

  24. avatar MigNoche says:

    I heard 911 operators are linked to the Navy Seals while on Spec Ops missions. After all, they are trained to keep your butt alive!?!

  25. avatar Dan says:

    While I may not “hang up” after dialing 911 for an intruder I certainly am NOT going to take their advice as word from on high. The recording may be of some use in your defense but it could also be used against you by a malicious DA. Evidence to the legal system is seldom about learning what the truth is and MORE about achieving a desired outcome.

  26. avatar Tommyr says:

    IF I have time to dial 911 BEFORE the intruder gets in I will but I won’t talk. Why? They always play 50 questions and I don’t have time to yak. I understand that any info I can provide helps the cops but I’m not wasting my time yakking to the operator when I have an A-hole breaking in. I grab the gun, “yell stop or I shoot” and wait for entry. THEN I shoot if I have to. If I didn’t have time to dial 911 I’ll do so AFTER I deal with the threat.

  27. avatar fuque says:

    911 operators are trained to keep the conversation going, to get as much info as possible, your personal safety is secondary to getting as much info as possible, police are not your personal protectors, and 911 isnt your personal life saver.. BOTH are designed to make law enforcement the sole priority… You do your part, call 911, report the crime, and put the phone down and prepare to save your ass, because when the cops get there they will focus on the crime.. they will as a token of concern pay lip service to your well being.. But their focus is on what happened.

  28. avatar Kendahl says:

    I didn’t hear anything particularly egregious from the 911 operator. Asking a terrified woman where she had shot the intruder was over the top. My biggest complaint was that he didn’t encourage her to calm down so that she could function effectively.

  29. avatar Brum says:

    Always, and I mean always, remember these words… “Everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law”. This applies to any words recorded on a 911 tape, and EVERY word you speak to a police officer post-shooting event. The victim should NOT have an ongoing conversation with the perpetrator, regardless of whether or not the 911 line is still open. Nor, after the police arrive, should the victim immediately answer questions submitted by the police more than what is necessary to distinguish who is the victim and who is the attacker.

    It is legal in every US state to request time to recoup from an attack before answering questions submitted by a police officer, and even then, you should have a lawyer present. If the police officer finds it questionable that a victim asks for a lawyer present before going into details after a shooting, that’s just too bad, he should know the law, and he should abide by the law. Even though the police officer is not the judge or jury at the scene of a shooting, unfortunately for the victim, the officer can greatly influence a judge and jury by the way he writes up a police report, e.g. prejudice, bias, ignorance, misunderstandings, or recording a victim’s emotion-charged answers due to stress.

    A victim most recognize that their answers can be affected by the physiological imprints on reality caused by trauma, such as spatial and time disorientation, tunnel vision, and even total audio shutdown. Post event, the police officer’s only job is to make a written report using whatever evidence is at hand, and he can wait until the victim is over the shock for further questioning. Otherwise victims should keep their mouth shut.

  30. avatar InMemoryofJekPorkins says:

    The police are on their way with blankets and warm cocoa!

  31. avatar JimmyD says:

    The ones that annoy me are the 911 calls where the dispatcher is telling the homeowner to “put the gun away” when the police are still responding. No way do I do this until I know they are actually there.

    As for staying on the phone, I actually agree with the person above who said you should call 911 and
    then put the phone down and shout:

    INTRUDER.
    YOU’RE IN MY HOME.
    I AM ARMED.
    I HAVE CALLED THE POLICE.
    IF YOU COME IN HERE, I WILL SHOOT YOU.
    LEAVE NOW!

    I have a few reasons for this.

    1-This is on the phone, so there’s absolutely no way any family members of the person breaking in can say you snuck up on their poor offspring who was really a “good boy” and murdered him. You very clearly stated your intentions-it’s on the 911 recording. Makes it harder for any do-gooder community activists to put a target on your back.

    2-You’ve made it clear to the person who is breaking in that they will be met with deadly force. While I am 100 percent committed to the safety of my family, if this means that the person flees without my having to shoot, I call that a win.

    3-You’ve announced to any family member (14 year old sneaking in?) that you’re ready to shoot someone. I’d rather my kids have this warning.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/va-officer-shoots-daughter-crashes-car-en-route-hospital-police-article-1.1904362

    4-IF, as the original poster of this idea suggested, they are really dumb enough to stay, I hope they do come after me and not my kids. This assumes that I have not had the opportunity to get my kids out of their rooms-If it gets him to looking for me, great. I’m covered, and ready for him.

    5-By putting the phone down, you’ve eliminated any distraction from the 911 operator.

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