It Should Have Been A Defensive Gun Use: Chicago Machete Attack Edition

There’s not much to this story. Seven gang members approach two non-gang members on a Chicago train platform, at night. They ask the two men to flash gang signs. The men refuse. The seven thugs set upon the two. One of them pulls out a machete and hacks away at his victim. The man survives. The gang members are arrested. But here’s the thing . . .

This is exactly the world that the antis want us to “return” to. A world where brutes use brute force on outnumbered, old, weak, frail or unsuspecting innocents. For profit. For dominance. For fun. A good guy with a gun may not be the only thing that stops a bad guy with a machete, or a gun, or a knife or six violent cohorts. But until something better comes along, it’s the best thing.

And it is our natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear a gun. Even in the “gun control” paradise of Chicago.

comments

  1. avatar Pantera Vazquez says:

    It is what it is………

    1. avatar BLAMMO says:

      It is attempted murder, not “aggravated battery”. SHEESH, are they fucking kidding?

      1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

        Piggy backing, sorry. 7 attackers, good thing this wasn’t one of those situations that New York said doesn’t happen when they passed the 7 in a magizine law.

  2. avatar Sammy says:

    The news report is so blatantly raciest, I mean pronouncing the names so they sound latino.
    Eric holder should investigate WHY the thugs refused to flash signs to antagonize the 7 boys. Something must be done. Sar/

    Yeppers, keep those gang members coming central America they have a right to be here.

  3. avatar Xanderbach says:

    Wait- Aggravated battery? Attacking someone with a machete sure seems like attempted murder to me.

    1. avatar BDub says:

      You can’t demonize edged weapons until all the guns are banned. If you did, you’d have a harder time making the guns look as bad as possible. Its called creating head-room.

    2. avatar mk10108 says:

      In my college days, I learned a fellow student was robed, had a gun placed to his head and was told, today you will die and was shot…he survived. A because he did not die, the shooter who confessed to premeditation, was only charged with attempted manslaughter. The guy was convicted and released 4 years later.

      This is what our elected leaders want…you to be preyed upon and without the means of lawful self defense.

      1. avatar Kevin L says:

        All that only in a bath robe!

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          While dis-robed?

    3. avatar Scrubula says:

      Yeah, he needed stitches meaning he definitely got cut up. Should have been attempted murder charges.

    4. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Attempted murder wouldn’t make the stats look good. We’re lucky it wasn’t “disorderly conduct.” Or “Littering” (spilling all that blood).

    5. avatar Rusty Shackleford says:

      That is the status quo in Chicago, unfortunately. You can get a slap on the wrist if you are gang-banger, especially if you use a firearm and are one of Shorty Guzman’s lost boys.
      http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2013/08/wikileak-memos-show-obama-refused-dea.html

  4. avatar Anonymous says:

    I’m confused about what happens at exactly 1:20 into the video.

  5. avatar JeffR in IL says:

    IL recently got Concealed Carry, but mass transit that receives public funding is one of the (many) verboden places where it is still disallowed by statute.

    So that train station platform of the CTA is still a no-carry zone.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      That’s only guns. You can always carry a machete. Although a Roman short sword would be much more effective.

      1. avatar Allen says:

        I like the way you think!

      2. avatar Hannibal says:

        …meh…

      3. avatar J- says:

        Carrying any knife with a blade longer than 3 inches is illegal in Illinois, and longer than 2.5 inches is illegal in Chicago. There is also a prohibition on “dangerous weapons” which include “Switchblades, stilettos, axes, swords, etc.” You are also prohibited from carrying knifes on public transportation.

        720 ILCS

        1. avatar Gs650g says:

          And we see how that law worked in this case.

        2. avatar Nigil says:

          Did you actually read the statute? Specific knife size has nothing to do with the legality of its carry, nor are you prohibited from having a knife on the train. I carry my pocketknife everywhere and typically also have my leatherman with knife.

    2. avatar J- says:

      We really need to get that part of the law changed. CCW should be legal on public transportation and in public parks.

  6. avatar LarryinTX says:

    I’m still trying to figure out whether I would have had the presence of mind when the machete came out, to simply start by shooting the NEAREST thug, then proceeding to the next and the next, rather than trying to somehow figure out which were the bad guys. A hole in each, reload, then start wondering what the CC rules are. Possibly time to catch the next train, investigate further at home.

    Those victims were the most perfect examples of “minding your own business” I can recall seeing.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Nobody gets seconds until everybody gets firsts.

    2. avatar Amok! says:

      Disparity of force. With the machete out, they are all fair legal game since they are all together.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        Eh I might be inclined to pay more attention to the guy who is not only willing but ready and able to slice me apart.

  7. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    Yep Jeff is right. I took the EL many times late at night. This was 25 to 30 years ago. Got in a few harrowing scrapes too. You are screwed in Chicago. Your best bet is to carry illegally or MOVE. BTW it SHOULD be attempted murder.

  8. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

    BAN MACHETES!!

    1. avatar Chris. says:

      A quick google search indicates knives over 2.5 inches are illegal to carry. (In Chicago)

      So, Ummmm -shazaam- done.

      You’re welcome.

      1. avatar Richard In WA says:

        So… it was a machete-free zone and that didn’t prevent someone from being attacked with a machete?

        Shocking. Shocking, I say!

  9. avatar Joe R. says:

    I remember a time when this wasn’t possible, wait, no, scratch that. This was always possible, we just stagger between periods of greater or lesser probabilities. Two things that have not changed since invention are physics and human nature, the only thing demonstrating progress are the video (recorded image), the train, and the metallurgy of the machete.

    Read “TERMS”. The only reason you were able to wake-up today, sh_t/shower/shave and buy a fresh donut, hot cup of coffee, and today’s paper at the convenience store where you bought your gas on the way to work, is because someone LET you. You want to surround yourself with people who will let-you, but you have to be ready for when you are wrong.

  10. avatar Frank Masotti says:

    Yes it should have been a defensive gun use. However it is Chicago, guns are virtually illegal there.

  11. avatar Menger40 says:

    I can’t even fathom how you come to the point of swinging a machete at strangers for refusing to make a gang sign. What are these peoples’ minds like? When you’re that screwed up, is there any hope for you to straighten out and become a normal person?

    Most folks I run into seem pretty sane and normal. Articles like this are an important reminder that not everyone out there is. Carry on, gentlemen.

    1. avatar Layne says:

      No, there is no hope. That’s a strong argument for the death penalty in my opinion. Prison is supposed to reform criminals. If they can’t live in civilization, and they can’t be reformed, it’s time for them to go.

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        I think Nancy Pelosi should adopt them and take the poor young waifs home.

    2. avatar ThomasR says:

      I often think of how the anti-gun mostly liberal/progressive say the world is different than in the 17th and 18th hundreds when people really needed guns.

      So pray tell; how exactly is the world different today? We still have piracy on the high seas, slavery; particularly sexual slavery rampant around the world; packs of barbarian savages roaming the streets of most major cities, packs of warrior tribes on motor cycles instead of horses. Nation states attempting to use war to control different areas for profit and power.

      The world, to me, is the same as it ever was. And anyone without the most effective easily transportable tool for self-defense, ie, the pistol, is just easy prey for the first predator they come across.

      Like always.

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        We still have piracy on the high seas, …packs of barbarian savages roaming the streets of most major cities, packs of warrior tribes on motor cycles instead of horses.

        And that’s just the cops.

      2. avatar Bob72 says:

        This fan of real history, who reads history books for fun, says you are absolutely correct. In the next century people will compare the events of today with that of the century before it drawing conclusions of how society hadn’t changed. They will probably falsely claim that society has finally matured like we tend to believe today.

    3. avatar Martin B says:

      That is SOP in the Central American shitholes these miscreants come from. They are more dangerous than Mexico. Any Latino with a tattoo is in a gang – it’s true, I saw it on TV. Obama might find it a little harder to identify with them as his sons, but that’s probably what his sons would be up to if he actually had any.

      I bet you didn’t know that the USA is being turned into another Latino gang territory? It behooves everyone to learn what their current Latino gang is where they live, and learn all the hand gestures that denote loyalty to that gang. Or you could just shoot them on sight, as was the duty of all good citizens way back when, in Texas and other places.

      What a world we live in!

  12. avatar Paul B says:

    That is the number one reason to not visit Chicago, or for that matter, Illinois.

  13. avatar The mayor of Candor says:

    My gang sign is a Smith and Wesson Model 57.

    1. avatar ThomasR says:

      I like that, “gang sign? You want to see my gang sign? Say hello to my little friend, kimber 1911…. hey!” As I yell at their ash shoals and elbows, fading in the distance “you didn’t say bye”.

  14. avatar rlc2 says:

    Just going to go out on a limb here and guess MS13… based on weapon of choice there…

    waiting on one of our resident LEOs to confirm neck tattoo for affiliation.

    Pity the poor Border Patrol that now spends its time feeding and transporting these ‘youts’ to their new homes in various parts of the country, where these newest “dreamers” have ‘family’ to stay with….while they await their immigration status hearing…something like 95% no-show rate on those, I believe- “unexpectedly”.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/11/violent-gang-ms-13-taking-advantage-immigration-cr/

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Just going to go out on a limb here and guess MS13…

      I’ll second that.

  15. avatar Big John says:

    let’s open THIS can of worms: would a revolver have been enough? five or six rounds of anything are a deterrent, but 14 or 15 rounds of anything would certainly give a little more peace of mind. i have no opinion one way or the other, aside from the fact that any gun is better than no gun.

    also, see how safe chicago is? this is a prime example of gun laws in action! MOAR LAWS!!!11

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Honestly? I think so.
      Say you are one of the gangsters and your victim opens up with a 6 shot snubbie. He starts with the closest, one round in the face. You get some chunks of your “bro” on you…
      Do you run like the dickens, or hang around to be next?
      My bet, they would run. And fast.

    2. avatar Menger40 says:

      Staring down seven guys with a six shooter would be all kinds of terrifying. That said, even with a full-size wonder nine, what do you do about seven(!) guys at bad breath distance? While sitting? With your younger brother? Not a good situation.

      I don’t think any level of training or hardware gets you out of that one safely unless they’re all scared away by the first couple shots. These guys are lucky to be alive.

    3. avatar Chris. says:

      That’s the trick isn’t it? How much gun is enough? Most likely, when the gun is drawn the assailants will run; most likely when the first shot is fired, the attacker(s) will flee.

      7 attackers though? In melee range? I’m thinking enough gun is going to be a m249 or equivilent.

    4. avatar Kevin L says:

      At contact distance you could put a round of .357 in at least 4-5 of their faces. That leaves 2-3 guys who probably won’t want to stick around. You could always battlefield pickup a knife (or in this case a machete) and use it on the others, and if you absolutely had to you could start pistol whipping people. Conclusion: I’d say 80-90% of the time you’re fine.

    5. avatar Bob72 says:

      In this case, I think gang bangers will be gang bangers. They have no honor and their loyalty is a facade. If the odds are against them, a few will run, a few will fail to understand the gravity of their impending death, and a few will have already been dispatched. But just in case, this is where all those hours of reloading exercises can save your life.

  16. avatar Ralph says:

    The victim should have gone all Bernie Goetz on those punks.

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      “There ain’t a jury in the world that would convict.”

  17. avatar Calvin says:

    “I have good news for you gentlemen. I’m a firm believer in the effectiveness of the Mozambique Drill and I only brought my TCP. So, who wants the first go and who gets the second?”

  18. avatar Gregolas says:

    More of this ilk cascades across the border every day.
    Tool up, get trained, and stay alert!

  19. avatar Mike says:

    This happened on the CTA, our wonderful politicians made it illegal to conceal carry on the CTA so even if the guy had a CCL, he would have been arrested for UUW if he had defended himself.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      Ill doesn’t have preemption laws?

  20. avatar Nedd Ludd says:

    Jess’ doin’ the jobs that ‘Muricans are unwilling to do.

    It’s “aggravated battery” because it reduces the serious crime stats for Chicago.
    This is pretty common in many big cities.
    You don’t want to scare away all the tourists.

    In the still sane parts of America, this is clearly attempted murder,
    but in the ‘City of Big Shoulders’ it’s just their way of welcoming you to the neighborhood.
    Besides, it lets these youts practice a new skill, so they will feel good about themselves
    and it raises their self esteem.
    See how contrite they look in their mug shots?

    BTW, I have never understood why there are different penalties for
    Attempted First Degree Murder and First Degree Murder.

    Aren’t you rewarding a miscreant for being a bad shot, a bad machete-ist (?),
    or because modern medicine was able to save the victim?

    If the intention was to murder, shouldn’t the penalties be the exactly same?
    Whether they succeed, or not, should be irrelevant.

  21. avatar Royal Tony says:

    Of course Dem strongholds like Chicago don’t want law abiding citizens to be armed. That would constitute a work-place hazard for their voting base.

  22. avatar Micah says:

    I cannot understand why 18 year-old, Mario Elvira, is not charged with attempted murder. Also, shouldn’t the fellow gang members be charged as accomplices to attempted murder? If the next train hadn’t come along, the victim would most likely be dead.

  23. avatar bolero says:

    The only difference between murder and attempted murder is poor aim/other technique. Not sure a perp should do any less time for that fail, but when its not even considered attempted murder in the first place, we are all FUBARed.

  24. avatar mk10108 says:

    Government has no vested interest in allowing citizens to protect themselves. Any law, rule, sign, restriction or policy that denies lawful self protection actually improves cash flow of local, state, & federal governments and keeps police, judges, corrections, public defenders and prosecutors employed. Once people have the means of public lawful self protection, events like this will end.

  25. avatar Grindstone says:

    I just had a Chi-Town resident *assure* me on a completely unrelated forum that “as long as you’re not in a gang or a druggie, you have nothing to fear”.

    Idiot.

  26. avatar Jordan Ross says:

    In the west blue means crips, dont know if that changes up there.

  27. avatar jimmyjames says:

    It absolutely should have been DGU of the day but we all know how that would have turned out. Some how I dont think those youts were on a Skittles and ice tea run.

  28. avatar cmeat says:

    the judge will declare a habeas corpus writ of boys will be boys. the clown is down.
    bored street kids being led by the somewhat sociopathic urges of the “career limiting tatooed”. an element that i didn’t notice mentioned here is that the machete used was not particularly sharp. a new un- sharpened gerber machete is a square edged dullard as delivered, more of a narrow bludgeon than sugar cane slicer. had it been honed similar to my tramontina bolo this would have been a beheading, as pointed out by w.h.thompson. and then he would have had to add a new pie chart to his graphs.
    that stop is half a block away from al salaam, some of the best food in the city. enjoy your cracker barrel.

  29. avatar IdahoPete says:

    “This is exactly the world that the antis want us to “return” to. A world where brutes use brute force on outnumbered, old, weak, frail or unsuspecting innocents.”

    Exactly. And for an excellent discussion of this, read “A World Without Guns” by Dave Kopel. (www.davekopel.com/NRO/2001/A-World-Without-Guns.htm)

  30. avatar racer88 says:

    Am I the only one that noticed the SA of the victims being dismally low? A large group of “gentleman” that look suspiciously like thugs are approaching AND SPREADING OUT (around you)…. and you remain SEATED?? No attempt to even escape. They just sat there. At the 0:12 mark, the victims had a BIG opportunity to “exit stage right,” literally. But, they didn’t.

    1. avatar Clark45 says:

      They’ve seen too many of the “keep your head down, don’t make eye contact, soil yourself” type of self defense “tips” offered up by the anti’s. It appears to be less successful than, say, a handgun might have been.

      Yup, Illinois (correctly pronounced “ill annoy,” by the way) once again demonstrates our concern for the troubled youth of America by giving these “misguided kids” a break & charging them with a lesser crime. To date, my votes have made very little difference in changing things. As long as I remain here I will keep trying, though.

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