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Just when you thought the Will Hayden story couldn’t get much more sordid, it does. “Stephanie Hayden is now claiming she too was sexually abused as a child by her father, Will Hayden … and will be providing information to law enforcement to aid in the prosecution of her dad.” tmz.com reports. “Stephanie — who appeared on the Discovery reality show ‘Sons of Guns’ with her father — originally came to Will’s defense last month after he got arresed for the alleged sexual abuse of his 12-year-old daughter.” Again, innocent until proven otherwise. Still, this doesn’t look good for Hayden. And doesn’t put the People of the Gun in a good light either.

Stephanie will be discussing her Dad and his alleged rape of her and her sister on Dr. Phil Thursday, September 11.

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158 Responses to ‘Sons of Guns’ Stephanie Hayden Says Father Will Hayden Raped Her, Too

    • I hope Hayden likes solitary confinement.

      He’s gonna be the most popular Punch-Puppet in his cell-block…

      (You can replace “Punch” with a word that rhymes with “Luck”)

        • The man ran his life around “black” powder and has proved to be an empty shell for “dark” powers to work with.He is lucky to have time to repent,he had better take advantage of that point while he still can.Bad fruit from that tree

      • IF WILL DID RAPE HIS DAUGHTER STEPHANIE THEN THE COURTS SHOULD DEAL WITH HIM HARSHLY!!
        IF STEPHANIE IS LYING THEN SHE SHOULD BE DEALT WITH. SHE SEEMS VERY INTERESTED
        IN HERSELF AND THEN MARRIED THAT LAZY CHRIS. I BELIEVE THAT THEY FELT THEY WEREN’T
        GETTING ENOUGH ATTENTION AND/OR ENOUGH MONEY TO MAKE THE MOVE ON THEIR OWN.
        WILL WASN’T GOING TO HELP FINANCIALLY.
        STEPHANIE, TAKE A GOOD LOOK IN THE MIRROR, THIS IS A SHOW ABOUT FIREARMS NOT SLEEZY
        WOMEN WITH THEIR BOOBS HANGING OUT.
        SOMEHOW I FEEL THIS WHOLE THING IS MADE UP BY STEPHANIE, CHRIS AND PROBABLY THE GIRLFRIEND OF WILLS. GOOD GOSSIP, RIGHT?
        GOOD LUCK WILL, AND I HOPE YOU GET OUT OF THIS IF IT’S A LIE!! WE MISS THE SHOW ALOT.
        karenmiranda230@comcast.net

    • Why would she continually work next to him if these allegations were true? Is she greedy? or just dumb? With that said, what type of wack job does this to his own kin? if this is true, that boys A$$ is gonna find out how a real rape happens. I hope for Stephanie and the little girls sake that none of this is true, but if it is, rot in hell will hayden.

        • Usually I try to keep my inner grammar Nazi locked away.
          However….. When *you’re* telling someone to do their research, you should make sure that *your* own comment is free of errors. Such as the correct forms of your, and you’re…

          Also, it’s Stockholm Syndrome, not “Stolckholems”… aside from your general butchering of the word, your ending of it with an “s” truly shows that you know nothing about it. While many syndromes are named after the last name of a notable person involved with the syndrome, and thus ending with an ” ‘s “. Stockholm Syndrome is named after an incident that happened in the city of Stockholm.

          In short….. “do you’re research”.

        • You sure don’t have a very high opinion of her do you? She’s a smart girl and can do way better than minimum wage.

      • Most likely he threatened her, he abused her, he told her if she told he would kill her, just like he allegedly did with these other children. She sucked it up and did what any scared child would do. Now that she is protected from him while he is in jail, she’s talking. He can’t hurt her if he can’t get to her.

        • Oh plz lets stop w/the pity poor crap. Shes absolutely telling the truth but chose fame over morals, shes a country girl gone glam tryin 2 stay semi famous. I know them personally n they were about 2 blow up big, had GREAT things about 2 happen. 2 younger sisters and finally tells? Show gets cancelled what better way 2 stay famous then dr phil or oprah? So sad that it IS true, just didnt matter till now. She could have prevented this

      • Sidling up to your abuser is actually very common in abused people. When you are growing up with an abuser, physical or sexual or any other type of abuse, you are also reliant upon them for survival. You need food, shelter, protection, etc. An abuser knows this, at least subconsciously, and exploits that survival instinct. Think of what kind of acrobatics your psyche would have to do to live with such a schism in your upbringing. The bread winner, shelterer, provider, father who you are driven to bond with through biological survival mechanisms is also the person who is the most monstrous to you. Your survival instinct of growing up with that is going be out of balance to make peace with the monster who brings you sustenance.

        I find it very disheartening that people in this modern information revolution don’t already know the answer to why a victim of repeated child rape and abuse would learn to make peace with her or his abuser and victimizer. If this story is true, and she is the repeated victim of years of rape and molestation by her own father, then I can only listen to her story and feel for her. The question should be, in that circumstance, if true: “How could she NOT learn to sidle up to her abuser for years, playing out the training and manipulation forced upon her by demonic care giver throughout her adult life?”

        If Will Haden is a child rapist monster, then these two victims and the girlfriend are heroins. When a child rapist gets tired of the mature form of the victim he once enjoyed, he doesn’t magically stop. Someone so incapable of empathy for his former victims has crossed the point of no return. Hoping that he will somehow grow enough empathy to stop what he was doing without external pressure is like hoping that an amputee will grow an arm. Such a monster cannot grow empathy back. He would repeat on someone else all the way to his death day. This has been shown in multiple other cases that go on for this long. So, in this way, these girls who may have been victimized by their own father, having enough courage to break their own learned subservience this a monster, are tremendous heroes and saviors to the victims that would have been devoured in the future.

        The Girlfriend and Stephanie’s mother don’t get off scottfree here either. Though the girlfriend is to be commended if it turns out she helped her child come forth on such a difficult thing, she and Stephanie’s mother bred with and lived with a monster. Such monster’s never follow the “he was such a quiet person who kept to himself” stereotype. What kind of a mother is so disconnected from her child that she does not even notice that from one day to the next the earth has changed in her daughter’s eyes. As the father of 3 girls, I would want to crawl into the nearest hole and shrink from view. One, these mothers allowed monsters into their child’s world and failed at the one thing that is paramount in the duty of guarding over the nest: PROTECT YOUR OFFSPRING! That is the one real duty of a parent. What else was going on your life, what issues do you have, that you let a the troll into your child’s bedroom? Two, these mothers did not notice instantly that something had shifted in their child. Imagine coming home after a brutal rape by the guys from Pulp Fiction, in shock, with the world changing red in your vision, and your spouse does not even notice the difference in your personality. That is what these mothers are guilty of.

        If Will Haden is guilty, the deepest level of hell is not deep enough for the childhoods he stole that can never be recovered and the wounds that he opened that can never heal fully. He is a monster who should be treated like one. Still, all who delivered unto the monster, repeated victims and did not notice that they did so, should be condemned to eternal guilt and self reflection, in isolation for the social rejection they deserve. The only ameliorating grace that can be granted to them, at least by me, is what comes from finally standing behind the victims they failed to protect for so long.

    • DAMNED STEPHANIE. EVERY THING WAS FINE UNTIL YOU AND YOUR LAZY HUSBAND, CRIS,
      DECIDED THAT YOU COULDN’ T GET ANYMORE MONEY OR PRESTIGE FROM WILL, SO YOU DECIDED TO LAY DOWN THE MOST HATEFUL & HURTFUL LIE YOU COULD THINK OF. STEPHANIE, THIS IS (WAS) A GUN SHOW, NOT STEPHANIE THE BEAUTIFUL SHOW. AND YOU OUGHT TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR. HOW COULD YOU HURT YOUR FATHER LIKE THAT AND HOW COME YOU DIDN’T SAY ANYTHING BEFORE THIS SHOW TOOK OFF AND WAS VERY, VERY POPULAR..
      STEPHANIE AND MR. WONDERFUL YOU WERE GOING OUT ON YOU’RE OWN AND NO ONE WOULD
      GIVE YOU FAME OR MONEY, INCLUDING YOUR FATHER!!!
      WILL, IF YOU DID THIS, MAY YOU ROT IN HELL, BUT I THINK IT’S VERY OBVIOUS WHAT IS GOING
      ON HERE.
      WILL, YOU AND YOU ALONE MADE THIS SHOW WHAT IT WAS, I HOPE YOU CAN RECOVER AND GO
      ON WITH YOUR LIFE!
      karenmiranda230@comcast.net

      • what’s with you and the caps?! I guess that by screaming at people you figure they’ll listen when all it does is piss people off.

      • Yup. That kind of violation can cause a lot of confusion, like Stockholm Syndrome on steroids. There have been lots of instances of abuse victims repressing memories of their abuse, and/or overcompensating with intense loyalty to their abusers.

    • Not unusual. Difficult to understand? Yes.
      I had to work sex crimes for about a year. I finally asked to go back to the road. I hated it.

    • Nothing odd about it. If you have never been abused either sexually or physically, you will never understand why victims act in certain way or make certain decisions. I take offense to the odd remark. It only marginalizes or brings doubt that it couldn’t have possibly happened because the victim did or didn’t do xzy. Maybe it didn’t happen or maybe it did. We shall find out through the investigation.

      The “odd” remark is the same thought process used against gun owners for decades. One of the remarks below show how ignorant some people can be. They are the same people that talk a big game on situations that have never actually been in the big game.

      • You’re on the internet. Why so easily offended? The fact that she defended him first is the only thing throwing up a red flag in my mind. But then it gets the cynical part of my mind looking for motive. And if she’s in line for the company… But realistically only about 5% of me thinks that’s the way it went down. The other 95% thinks that this guy is a filthy scumbag who deserves whatever he gets in prison.

        • As for motive for defending him at first, there is talk in the article that she did that to protect her income, but now that the Discovery Channel has canceled the show…

        • It’s fairly common for rape victims to defend their abuser first. The trauma from rape is incredibly powerful. The rape itself is terrible, but really the life they live after that is completely different. It’s comparable to battlefield PTSD. The brain does everything it can to process the information. Usually it’s an unhealthy coping mechanism because the trauma is so powerful it’s the only thing the brain knows how to do. Admitting what happened publicly is going to bring all of those stuffed emotions out in a very powerful and uncomfortable way. It’s natural for the brain to continue to want to repress such a horrible thing.

          If he is convicted of forcible rape by threat of violence OR if the child is 12 or younger the sentence is life in prison without parole and hard labor (Louisiana). His life is going to suck. Rightfully so.

      • Well, I can’t very well dictate to you how to feel or not feel. A person himself cannot control how he feels, after all. We can control whether and how we act on those feelings, however. Taking offense at his calling this odd is one thing. Calling him out on it another.

        For starters, it IS odd that someone would defend someone against a charge of heinous acts, only to bring like charges herself shortly thereafter. Offensive or not, it’s odd and that’s the reality.

        Beyond that, you said it yourself that no one who hasn’t experienced this sort of trauma can understand its effect on people. Well then, how can the comment that something is odd really be a cause for offense, when you yourself admit that the whole of the subject is beyond someone’s faintest understanding? How would someone delimit propriety when the entire topic is outside of all frame of reference, especially when commenting on that topic is expected, as in an Internet forum?

        • How odd is it? It’s actually fairly common in sexual assault cases, especially involving family.

        • ^ Yup.

          It’s very common. And the people saying she only recanted once there was no hope of protecting her income any further have no empathy and probably not heart to boot.

          I know it really shouldn’t but it never ceases to amaze me how people posting on the internet can accuse others of not considering an issue from another perspective but then do the exact same thing themselves constantly.

          Sometimes I really hate people.

        • Well put Johnathan. Some are attempting to clinically diagnose Stephanie Hayden, and they aren’t minimally qualified to do so. This woman has been through enough. Not only does these event support the “gun toasting, inbred, redneck” stereotype, but you do nothing to foster supporters, when you attack rape victims. Make me want to send you back to middle earth. It would seem that those who think that way aren’t ready for surface dwelling.

    • One of the defense mechanisms of sexual abuse is denial accompanied by the desperate desire for the proper type of parental love and nurturing a parent provides, in normal settings. The inflicting of abuse and the betrayal of protective responsibilities as devastating as it is only part of the problem. To feel unloved and that for some reason the victim deserves the abuse are just 2 other tortures endured by the victim. If the case against Hayden is proven, and many times these are serial crimes, the I would ask that the cell door be quietly closed on him for the rest of his life.

      • The only time his cell door should be opened is to let Bubba in and out. I am a firm believer in punishment as severe as the infraction, regardless of how barbaric. Don’t want to get raped? Don’t rape. Don’t want to get hacked up with a machete? Don’t hack someone up with a machete.

        • You should consider moving to the Islamic State then – I hear they are great believers in that concept over there.

        • Right. Because innocent men have NEVER EVER been sentenced wrongly… Let’s torture them to boot.

          Don’t get me wrong – if Hayden’s guilty, weld his fucking cell shut.

    • Because she had been packing around that baggage for years and built her whole life around lies to defend her dad. I’m glad she is telling the truth and can hopefully help society put away her scum bag dad who I never liked.

    • @ Danny Griffin
      Because that’s what victims of sex abuse do. They deny, bury, and minimize it.
      The girl has a wave of emotions going over her now, but with the show toast, daddy’s little secret all over the world and the pressure to come forward and also to release that terrible demon that’s been tormenting her finally won over. This case isn’t unusual. What’s unusual is that such a taboo subject is thrust into the media, although most of the mainstream media is burying it.

      Why did she first come to her fathers defense and then confess? DUH!

      • Don’t forget a reasonable assurance she won’t have to sit across a living room from him for a while at least. I’m sure that would help.

    • Because of the financial situation of them both working at RJF. Now that RJF tossed Will and his reputation in the firearms community is even worse than it was, she has much less reason to be afraid of backlash.

      • She probably came to the conclusion/realization that the cat was going to be let out of the bag. It must be a great relief to her to finally get this out.

    • Look into the psychology behind rape victims. It’s not pretty and it’s not as black-and-white as we’d like to think.

      When a rape victim steps forward, especially in a case involving family as close as this, it’s a MASSIVE leap for the victim. Now she’s going to have to testify, that means putting on PUBLIC RECORD what happened to her, reliving the scenario to an audience.

      This isn’t a simple case of some beating or anything light. This is incestual RAPE. You can only get an inkling of the torture, both mental and physical, victims have to go through.

      Read up on it. It’ll open your eyes to just how messed up the whole thing is.

  1. So Wait. after five years, Dealing with Law enforcement in various districts/levels, having kids/getting married, and Having a tv show, She finally grows the balls to speak up about sexual abuse? Really? If I was raped I’d be screaming bloody murder, besides Who the hell would work along side their rapist for that long, Seeing them every day, Knowing what they did. I read his book, That chapter wasn’t in it, shame(Chapter 7, I raped my daughter..).

    Every time ya view one of their videos on yt or what, every scene he’s in, we all will stare and think “Rapist”. In Disgust.

    • My first wife was sexually abused by her father. When you’re a kid and your father is doing these things it messes with your mind on a major scale. She has never fully come to terms with it and it was at least partly responsible for the wreck of our marriege.

      It’s a terrible thing to destroy a childs innocence and trust for your own gratification.

    • It’s easy to say that, but you probably had a reasonably healthy childhood where you weren’t raped by your own parent(s). Bad stuff during the developmental stages can lead to bad decisions as an adult.

    • AND she didn’t mention it to her new husband, employee at Red Jacket, who continued to be employed there without shooting his new father in law who supposedly had raped his wife?

      This whole thing sounds more and more preposterous every time I hear anything about it. If Will did these things, worked a TV show with constant contact with law enforcement at all levels, shared the business with Stephanie, let an employee marry Stephanie and continue working there, and continued to rape his younger daughter the whole time – he is the best actor I have ever seen and the show deserves an Emmy on that regard alone.

      Or maybe he’s just a sociopath with no conscience and no empathy.

      Personally, I would want to carefully check the bank accounts of all the accusers for large, mysterious deposits of late.

      If it can be PROVED that he did theses things, not he said-she said, but actual physical proof and/or reliable eye witnesses, then he should be convicted and pay the penalty. If not then everyone who is making these claims needs to face serious legal consequences.

      • If you’re looking for physical evidence and third party eyewitness testimony to RAPE, you might as well put unicorns on that list.

      • I know of a young married man who had two children, one boy and one girl. He got divorced, which was as normal as a divorce can be. Two years after the divorce, he decided to get re-married. His ex got mad and filed child molestation charges against him. Needless to say, thirty thousand dollars and a year later, the charges were found to be false. These charges will follow him for the rest of his life, even though they were not true. He was planning on being a school teacher, but he had to forget that profession. What was even worse, his ex, was never punished for filling a false report, that ruined his life.

      • “Or maybe he’s just a sociopath with no conscience and no empathy.”

        Anyone who rapes their own child is exactly that.

        • One common theme with child rapists and molesters they all say they love the child. Google NAMBLA look at some of the sick crap, all use love as a control. As in no one else but me will ever love you, dealt with a few that did not speak up until they had kids 30 years later & the sick S.O.B. admitted it because the statue of limitations had passed long ago.
          It’s the same with a spouse that goes back time and time again until one is
          dead or the right person gets them to cooperate with prosecution.

        • Currently it is 30 years after they teach 18 in some cases no limitation. Where it gets iffy is that is the current law, the law that was in place at the time the crime occured.
          LA changed sex crime laws within the last 20 years. In NY until 7-8 years ago it was 5 years and had to have corrabation. Most states have bumped it to a no limit but that is for current crimes, previous crimes are subject to limits as low as 3 years. Some also specify forcible rape meaning date rape. & the like have limits. Rape is one of the hardest crimes to prosecute since this country has a social stigma attached on par with the muslim countries. Unless the rapist beats a victim female or male to a pulp it likely won’t even be reported. A man being raped is even less likely to be reported or prosecuted.

      • Cliff its so scripted when the “secret dating” storyline, they were already married w/kids. My friend used 2 babysit them while they did their tabs n comin off acid in the trailerpark!!They r the beverly hillbillies, LMAO if evry1 only KNEW!! I might have sum stories to sell, known em 15 yrs!! Hes hit on me thru out the yrs maybe i should come foward, hehe. He took no for answer tho, still stayed my friend

  2. That’s pretty shocking. It seemed like she was the only one publicly defending him when this story first broke. If it’s true there could be a lot of reasons for changing her tune, going through something like that as a child can mess people up pretty severely. I agree that this needs to be properly adjudicated before anyone can make definitive statements about his guilt or innocence, but this looks dire for him.

    • I am not saying he is guilty or not, but I have seen children who have accused their parents of a lot of things, just because they didn’t get their own way.

  3. And doesn’t put the People of the Gun in a good light either.

    What sort of guilt-by-association nonsense is this? What does his stance on or use of firearms have anything to do with allegedly raping his daughter(s)? Where have People of the Gun encouraged, condoned, or done anything other than condemned the allegations against him?

    His personal decisions and actions reflect upon him, and him alone.

    • It shouldn’t but it absolutely does because it plays right into the inbred redneck meme that the antis use all too often.

      • …because it plays right into the inbred redneck meme that the antis use all too often

        No, what plays right into their hands is giving even the slightest credence to the guilt-by-association fallacy. The article asserts the fallacy as fact. It’s not, even though we know that the anti-gun crowd will attempt to push the fallacy as fact.

        • “No, what plays right into their hands is giving even the slightest credence to the guilt-by-association fallacy.”

          Thank you for another injection of reason into this discussion. People who are vulnerable to guilt-by-association fallacies are weak-minded to begin with.

    • Last time I checked, the people who believe in preventing rape with a bullet have never supported it.
      Anyway, now I’m confused about the allegations. She goes through her whole childhood and works as his financier for multiple years as an adult without reporting rape? I’m not sure what to think…

      • In reality, few children are going to risk destroying their family and community relationships to challenge an otherwise respected authority figure, and that’s assuming that they will be believed in the first place. Look at the legions of clergy abuse victims for an example of how the power dynamic works. Adults didn’t stat speaking up until decades after the abuse occurred.

      • I once knew a girl who had been abused by her father, she had moved away and gotten out, but her sister was still being victimized. Her mother, who i’m sure was abused as well, turned a blind eye. She was afraid of tearing her whole family apart if she reported her father for it.

        Think of your father, or mother, or whomever you hold dear. If you grow up with abuse none of that goes away necessarily, but it gets added to the fear, anger and animosity that the abuse causes, leaving the victim with severely conflicting emotions. This is compounded by the fact that abusers are pretty good at instilling loyalty in their families, come to think of it, if you grow up the child of such a person, it’s an awful lot like being born into a small cult. Most cults prey on people from the outside, but if you are raised and groomed specifically to be the perfect cult victim, there’s not a lot of hope for you. If you then also grow up in a smallish town with limited career opportunities and are then also pressured to join the family business, it could easily make for the perfect storm of victimhood.

        Everything you grow up surrounded by automatically becomes your ‘normal.’ If that normal fills you with intense emotional pain, then that pain becomes comfortable in a strange way, I believe this is in large part why abuse victims seek abusers. A non-abuser might even seem weak.

        The radio show “loveline” used to be very educational on this, it may still be, I don’t know. Dr. Drew would place ‘bets’ with the guests on the abuse history of some callers. The bets were only a dollar, really just a token. The point he was making was that by the specific brand of chaos a person exhibited you could pretty reliably tell what sort of abuse, and sometimes at what age, someone had experienced (with some limitations, i’m sure). If a grown woman has a voice like a little girl, the age she sounds like is the age the abuse happened at, things like that.

        The short version: If she was sexually abused as a kid, all bets are off on what behavior might flow from it. She may have only come forward with her allegations once she was sure he wouldn’t be out and she would have to deal with him any time soon. Who knows. Perhaps someday she will write a book with these insights.

        • I knew a woman that killed herself with a severe substance abuse problem. She eventually took so many pills and drank so much alcohol that she drowned in her pool. Her father molested her for years and it lasted, by the rumors I hear, into her 30’s, like a few months before she died. The stories that came out of that were sickening. The mother caught her dad with her on several occasions and ignored it. The poor girl was so screwed in the head, she couldn’t have a relationship with other guys. The ones she had were turbulent at best.
          The sick part is that the the mom defends it and their only son called her a liar. Some folks that married into the family have stepped in and are making sure something is done.

          It’s amazing stuff like this goes on and is largely unreported. There is some barrier that abuse victims take a long time getting through.

      • I dated a girl in NC whose uncle raped her.

        She told her family, who buried it because they didn’t want the community to find out and she had substantial pressure placed on her not to go to the police. Additionally, as she told me, she knew if she went to the police, her family would not back her up at all.

        This is reality folks.

        It’s ugly, and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to people who haven’t been in these situations or seen them. This old school, barbaric shit happens in the US the same as it happens in India. People are people and people suck.

    • Sure you think that. And I think that. And any reasonable person, who took the time for assessment, would think that. But if they show pictures of the guy holding up guns and talking about how he’s an alleged child molester, it will create a link in the weak minded…and their votes count just as much as ours.

      If MDA could find a picture of Hitler with an AR-15, they’d spam it across the internet. Fortunately, without time travel, that’s not likely to happen.

    • If everyone on both side of the gun issue were reasonable, you would be correct. But do you honestly think that, if he is convicted, the antis’ WON’T be frothing at the mouth with glee and painting us all with the same brush? I mean, regardless of what’s reasonable, here is a very public gun enthusiast (and a reality TV star, yes, I know, but I’m looking at it from the other side) with some extremely nasty charges leveled against him. If he’s convicted, then it’s, “See! This is what gun owners are like!” And the low information votes who don’t have a strong opinion on gun control and/or don’t know (or don’t know that they know) any gun owners could very easily agree. So, yeah, this actually DOES reflect poorly on gun owners, if it’s presented the right way.

      • Of course the anti-gun crowd will attempt to push the guilt-by-association meme. That doesn’t mean that we have to help them along, by asserting it as fact, as the author has done here.

    • You beat me to it. This^^^^ . I don’t see what one has to do with the other. Not at all. By that logic all Marines are also cast in that light. Nah man doesn’t work that way.

    • While you are technically correct in your points, you know, as do we all, that the misdeeds of ANY notable person(s) associated with firearms will be used at every opportunity to paint the rest of us as the same sort of person.

      Anti-2A groups will take great joy in this effort, which is why the search for monetary interests influencing the comments and assertions of all involved need to be thoroughly researched. While I would not turn on family or bear false witness on ANYONE for monetary gain, large sums of cash can have significant corrupting effects on some people, even to the extent of degrading their moral judgments.

      • “While you are technically correct in your points, you know, as do we all, that the misdeeds of ANY notable person(s) associated with firearms will be used at every opportunity to paint the rest of us as the same sort of person.”

        Such a tactic is also of very limited utility, at best. Most people are reasonable enough to parse out the individual from their career. Acting overly defensive only creates a perception of guilt.

        • “Such a tactic is also of very limited utility…”

          Such a tactic has been used for almost a century (or more than
          depending on your argument), particularly by those of left wing
          orthodoxy. And it’s not just the anti-2A crowd but by many groups
          with a complete diversity of interests. For a tactic of ‘limited utility’
          it still seems to have been used long enough and well enough
          to do some serious, perhaps even irreparable, damage to our
          country.

      • It plays right into the inbred hick stereotype anti-gunners love to perpetuate. Like it or not, it does.

        More nonsense.

        What does rape have to do with the “inbred hick stereotype”? Are you conflating inbreeding with rape, or are you conflating hicks (i.e. rural dwellers) with rape? Inbreeding, while wrong and illegal, has nothing to do with rape, because it involves sex between two consenting, but too closely related, adults. As for rural dwellers and rape: per the FBI UCI, rape rates are higher in both urban (27.0/100K) and suburban (41.6/100K) areas than in rural (22.0/100K) areas:
        http://www.victimsofcrime.org/docs/ncvrw2013/2013ncvrw_stats_urbanrural.pdf

        The first step in countering specious anti-gunner memes is to stop accepting them as fact, and facilitating their perpetuation.

        • Becha he had a car. Drank CokaCola, too. Took a shower? Used Colgate toothpaste? Nike shoes? Ate Broccoli?

      • How can anyone even refute this fact?

        Remember what happened with the “legitimate rape” debacle for the Republican party?

        Thought so.

    • Exactly what I came to say. Even if he isnt a pedo scumbag, Will Hayden is not and has never been “my people.”

    • And doesn’t put the People of the Gun in a good light either.

      Speak for yourself. Maybe you think it puts you in a bad light, but it doesn’t have jack sh1t to do with me.

    • Guilt via common interest is a bullshit argument.

      So does this put everyman who has a daughter in an alleged rapist? How about the same political preference?.

      I understand this a blog/site about guns and there is a need for relevancy, but this ain’t it.

    • Exactly! You said it for the rest of us, Chip! This doesn’t paint the People of the Gun in any light. Oh he likes guns & is a rapist… We must be rapists too! I have never heard more ridiculous guilt by association bullshit in my entire life! That’s just as bad as comparing us to some school shooting nutjob. No need to tack on ridiculous associations just because you can’t figure out a good way to finish an article, Zimmerman!

    • What is this pompous pathetic “People of the Gun” fuckwittery?

      We’re individuals, not little zombie robots to feed your ego with fantasies of a legion of minions.

  4. Wow, if this really did happen the way she said it happened then my sympathy and prayers are with her and her half sister. Poor kid.

  5. I agree that everyone is innocent until proven guilty however those of you who question the time frame of her allocations or can’t fathom why she would have the relationship with him that she has had as an adult simply do not truly understand sexual abuse. Kids that go through those things atsuch an age are damaged on a level we will never fully understand without having gone through it. When their dad is telling them that he’s doing this because he loves them and that’s how daddies show their love they become brainwashed. As they get older and become more aware many just try to hide from it, pretend it didnt happen and just try to be normal (especially if the abuse has stopped). I doubt she told her husband until she felt like she had to and now that it’s on the table I would imagine she’s being encouraged by plenty of people to come forward.

  6. How do they find these people? Out of thousands upon thousands of family gun businesses how did the TV producers pick one with serial problems with their FFl where dads a pervert? I don’t get it, I almost think the TV people knew something like this was true so later on it would put gun owners on a bad light

      • Yup.

        Last time I was called for jury duty, it turned out to be a molestation case.

        The number of people in the jury pool who asked to be excused because they were unable to be unbiased due to ‘events involving themselves or a family member’ was stunning.

      • I heard Discovery was approached by RJF as well. Admittedly the first season was actually pretty interesting because it was just about doing some interesting builds or restorations. After that it was about weird guns, drama, and EXPLOSIONS! Honestly, I think SoGs was just a monument to Will’s ego.

    • The kind of people who want to be on schlocky “reality” TV garbage like this show are not likely to be exemplars of self-control and healthy interpersonal dynamics. In other words, if you want to put your life on display for some money and a fleeting bit of almost-fame, there’s probably more than a little bit messed up in your head.

      As to where they find them, you put out an ad that you’re looking for X for a reality TV show, and you’ll get a thousand applicants on the first day. Then the producers pick the biggest jerkoffs and weirdos they can from that pile, because nobody wants to watch a TV show about a normal family running a small business in a reasonable way. Where’s the drama in a show about a shop where the employees get along, the customers are generally satisfied, deadlines are easily met through intelligent planning, and finances are managed in a responsible way?

  7. When I was growing up in a middle-class Jewish household, it was constantly drummed into me that any misconduct on my part would reflect badly on the entire Jewish community. People who may or may not have been active anti-semites might judge us by the example of such individuals as Meyer Lansky, Bugsy Siegel or Longy Zwillman. Every action was critiqued on the basis of “Is it good for the Jews?” Right or wrong, it was still a factor.

  8. For those questioning why the elder daughter would only now make her allegations (and even after initially defending her father), I would just like to say: rape must be the single, most psychologically damaging thing a person can undergo. It affects a victim for the rest of her life, and impacts most, if not all, current and future relationships. Denial, Stockholm Syndrome, and any manner of behaviors are all quite normal. I see no reason to question her sincerity, honesty, or veracity.

    (I’ve seen first-hand the effects of rape, and the long-term effects of sexual assault of a child – which probably factors into why I would react so viscerally to a specious assertion that the allegations against Hayden reflect in any way whatsoever on the hundred million gun owners who didn’t rape their daughters.)

    • I see no reason to question her sincerity, honesty, or veracity.

      Because people lie, maybe? Was she lying then or is she lying now? Seems not that long ago a guy got out of prison for a rape he didn’t commit because the girl lied. She got a big financial payment and didn’t want to give it up, so she left him in prison for years.

      Having said that, I tend to think she’s telling the truth this time, and lied last time to keep the Sons of Guns TV money coming in.

      • ‘I tend to think she’s telling the truth this time, and lied last time to keep the Sons of Guns TV money coming in.’

        Are you saying that you wouldn’t be the least bit embarrassed if everyone in the whole country knew that you were raped repeatedly by your father and that the only reason you could see for lying about it is avarice?

        • Danny, I can just tell we wouldn’t get along.

          You think the world is going to hell in a handbag because the younger generations curse, but have no problem offhandedly alleging that a woman coming forward in her late 20s or 30s about her father raping her chose her timing due to financial reasons.

          Shame on you.

        • The only thing in the narrative that’s changed that the Discovery Channel has now cancelled the show.

        • The Bear’s right, Danny. You’re a disgusting human being and should be ashamed of yourself.

        • Are you saying that you wouldn’t be the least bit embarrassed if everyone in the whole country knew that you were raped repeatedly by your father and that the only reason you could see for lying about it is avarice?

          And now she’s going on Dr. Phil. This is not just about helping the prosecution because it’s the right thing to do. You don’t think the defense attorney is going to ask, and the jury is going to wonder, why she did everything to kill the story to keep Sons of Guns on the air?

        • DG, are you seriously putting yourself on the same moral plane as criminal defense attorneys?

        • Gov, I’m saying if she testifies that question may be asked, and the jury might wonder as well. Anyone is subject to being on a jury, and actually if I was an attorney I would seriously contemplate practicing criminal defense.

          Do you think people like Mark Omara and Don West are scummy and beneath contempt or something?

        • @TheBear

          You…have no problem offhandedly alleging that a woman coming forward in her late 20s or 30s about her father raping her chose her timing due to financial reasons.

          It’s happened before, people trying to manipulate the system, even in sex crime cases, for financial gain. Look up Brian Banks. In that case a girl fabricated the rape and let a man spend six years in prison because if she told the truth it would have cost her the huge financial settlement she won in court because of the (fake) rape (that never happened). In this case by defending Will and trying to keep him out of prison it would keep Sons of Guns on the air and Stephanie could keep her TV income coming in. She only stopped defending him when SoG got cancelled. So yes, that’s a very real possibility. Absolutely.

  9. The father had a mental control over her. Now she is feeling guilt that having never said anything led to her younger sister also becoming a victim.

  10. Some of these comments bring to mind the phrase “it’s earlier than you think.”

    Can it really be that so many people are so oblivious to what this kind of abuse does to people? It makes perfect sense to me that a parental rape victim would deny this at first. I’ve never been sexually abused, but I assumed this was common knowledge. I guess it isn’t, and it really is “earlier” than you think… It does explain a lot about the state of the world we live in…

    As for the particular case, I can’t say I particularly care about Will Hayden. He’s innocent until proven guilty. The more evidence comes up, though, the more I’d be surprised to see him proven anything but guilty.

  11. What was strange was Will’s overly possessiveness of his daughter when one of Will’s employees started dating his daughter.
    It seemed a little too consistent with men who had been a inappropriate relations with their daughters.
    I spotted that behavior right off.
    And that’s when I quit watching it.
    Will’s condescending and authoritarian treatment of every one turned me off to the program.
    No body should have put up with that kind of behavior.
    I have personally seen experienced this kind of behavior before.
    Most people, unfortunately will not stand up to it,
    They will TOLERATE IT, RATIONALIZE IT, AND FACILITATE this behavior while every one suffers.
    The sexual behavior is only just part of toxic deviant behavior that wants to dominate everyone around them.

    If you are around such a person, I suggest that you stand up to them and do not let them get their way.

  12. ‘And doesn’t put the People of the Gun in a good light either.’

    Still, when compared to how the actual show reflected on gun owners this really isn’t all that bad. By comparison.

  13. These comments are disgusting and only serve to show how little you know about rape victims. How about instead of opening your fat mouths, you do some research into rape victim psychology. Despite you thinking it, you don’t really know everything.

  14. I never could stand the “reality” of sons. It doesn’t reflect a damn bit on me or any other person of the gun. Neither does the violence in the black community reflect on law abiding moral black folks. I always got a creepy vibe from them especially when the daughter was made out to be some kind of sex symbol. At least the 17year old on American Guns WAS cute( if equally creepy that they made an underage girl the star of the show}. And I tend to believe Stephanie Hayden. I see no advantage to her accusing him. I also cannot understand anyone continuing to defend this POS.

  15. If there’s any stereotypes this story enforces, it’s that of the inbred bumpkin, not the gun owner.

    Assuming this isn’t part of some concerted effort to squeeze money or custody out of the guy, it’s pretty fuckin’ vile and abhorrent what he’s alleged to have done, and he should be left to the tender mercies of Bubba, Tyrone, Jose, et al..

  16. Given how easily a child can be manipulated (by the ex), I was hoping things wold work out differently. Stephanie’s statement puts the nail in his coffin.

    • I feel the same way. It makes me very, very sad. I didn’t like the show and I don’t like the family, but any time I have to revisit the reality of what people can do to each other, much less their own family, it makes me lose my faith in humanity.

  17. Doesn’t put the people of the gun in a good light either? Really?

    It’s not like he’s our brother or something. To most of us he’s someone we don’t know haven’t met and have zero control over.

    What he does has no reflection on me. Are you really saying I should be worried about the behavior of everyone who drives a Ford F350 diesel dually just because I drive one, too? Please.

  18. It doesn’t reflect well on gun people, BUT, most people are not stupid in that sense I believe. If a Muslim cuts off someone’s head, the Left immediately go to the defense of Islam, pointing out that the whole religion can’t be framed for the actions of an extremist portion. And the average American is pretty much smart enough to see this I believe. Same with guns. The average American is smart enough to understand that a man who (if the allegations are true) is a child rapist, and a gun enthusiast, that doesn’t mean that all gun people are suspect.

  19. god i love being right. I also find it funny that Leghorn was defending this guy a few short weeks ago. Reporting on shit he knows nothing about. again. still.

    • I’m not sure I understand gloating about being “right”, when the consequence of being right is two girls who were raped by their father. Two people’s lives are potentially shattered, but somebody got to win an internet argument.

  20. This family, and the show, didn’t reflect well on “People of the gun” right from episode 1. Right out of the gate there was an oddness, and something not quite right to the whole thing. Outside of them claiming to make innovations in firearms that were the farthest thing from. I heard some stuff about their licensing being wonky, some rumors that Will wasn’t really running the shop, it was just being done for the show. I even heard once the shop we saw in the show was not the real red jacket firearms workshop. It was built for the show. So I just figured the reason it felt off was because it was entirely staged.

  21. “doesn’t put the People of the Gun in a good light either.”

    No matter what we do, to some sick, twisted, mentally ill sycophants will always be “bad guys”…Wolves do not loss sleep over the opinion of sheep…And do not think for a moment other wise they are not sheep.

  22. If there is one lesson that should be clear to all gunnies, especially after 2013 attempt at rabid gun-grabbery & their PR, it’s that all actions of the crazies, are solely of their own making. So if anything, this type of collectivist view, should be avoided, IMHO:

    And doesn’t put the People of the Gun in a good light either.

    of course, in this twisted world full of arrested development ‘grown-ups,’ it’s par for the course that MSM & hoplophobes & Gun-Grabbery Industrial Complex will of course propagandize to paint all who share traits or common activities would be painted with a broad paintstroke for their political propaganda expediency. That said, gunnies should never fall for it.

    Guns do not shoot by itself. Only Will Hayden is to blame for Will Hayden, if what alleged, turns out to be true. If what is alleged turns out to be true, only Will Hayden looks bad, which proportionally speaking is infinitesimally insignificant, compared to his allegedly raped daughters, who cannot erase the event from their bodies, nor their memories.

  23. She repressed it for decades, “wished it into the cornfield” so to speak. Never mentioned it to anyone, even her husband. Never wanted to have to remember or relive it. Her income being dependent on her father helped to rationalize such actions. When the nightmare started over, she denied it, tried to keep from having the light shined on to the dark recesses of her past. Why would she want to relive those memories again?
    Fairly typical response.

  24. I dont know how anyone can use this against gun owners. I`m sure the Moms Demand and CSGV supporters will try to make political hay. But as news stories have shown, perverts can be found in all professions. There have been priests, politicians, police officers, doctors, pastors, and teachers busted for sexual abuse.

  25. Seems kinda odd to me that a child molester would allow his victim constant access to him and serious weaponry at the same time. Doesn’t seem very wise. If it were me, I’d have a hard time stopping myself from putting holes in him.

    • When this broke I was pretty sure it was just angry ex-wife drama. Unfortunately, now I’m pretty sure it’s not.

      With the original accuser, I figured mom put them up to it. I can’t think of any reason Stepahie would make those claims if it wasn’t true. Unlike the ex-wife, I can’t see how she would benefit from this.

  26. For those that don’t know fact Will does not own RJF. Stephs husband and another are owners. Steph and Will lost their FFL for some violation with the ATF. So it’s not for what she might lose or gain.

    Let the law do it’s job and investigate. The facts will come out in time.

  27. I think the reason so many people (including me) are worried this will negatively affect public opinions of gun owners is not because one person doing any one thing has that affect.

    Rather, it’s because Sons of Guns was the only “gun show” on television.

    Sort of like… if one or two of the guys on “Deadliest Catch” had been charged with raping little kids, quite a few (admittedly ignorant) people would just assume that a large percentage of crab fishermen are perverts.

    Public opinion is a fickle but powerful thing. It’s why people pay millions of dollars for PR.

  28. I wouldn’t have pegged Will for that type of guy…if it’s true then I’ve lost all respect for him…and he deserves what he gets.

    It amazes me, granted never having experienced this, that Stephanie could maintain such a relationship with her father as portrayed on TV. I’d imagine wanting to disappear and never encounter that monster again…but then again, I speak without any experience…

  29. The guy is a royal jerk, but I would have never guessed he was what he’s been accused of. Interestingly, it sounds like he had little to no legal attachment to Red Jacket by the time his demise rolled in. I know that may have been related to his lack of an FFL, but it seems mighty convenient for Red Jacket. It will be interesting to know if he knew the gig was up in advance. It is starting to sound like a story line for a TV drama. I think I would rather see a spin-off show headed by Vince.

  30. Conflating POTG with pedophiles is more vile than the usual conflation of POTG with penile inadequacy, which the anti’s do with boorish regularity. However, in a propaganda war, expect the worst and you won’t be surprised. Most of what they’ve got is based on lies and perverse distortion. Pedophilia is generally, universally reviled. If the anti’s use Will Hayden as a “typical example” of gun owners, it only goes to prove how desperate and despicable they are. No surprise there.

    Will Hayden is “innocent until proven guilty” to a Jury of his peers in a Court of Law. The accusations against him are merely accusations, and remain so until he is charged and tried…if that ever happens.

    My wife and I hated the interpersonal cr*p on that Show, but we watched it because of the unique projects they undertook with custom and antique arms. You would never have seen much of that stuff if “Sons of Guns” had never been on the air, and we always wondered where some of the clients got the stuff they brought to Red Jacket for repair and restoration…some deep. deep pockets.

    The kinds of things Will Hayden is accused of happen a lot more than those of us in the mainstream of human life ever imagine. It is tragic, terrible and reprehensible. I recall a film, whose title escapes me, where the final point of the film was, “there’s one thing worse than death and dishonor…betrayal!”. Parental child rape is a form of betrayal, so deeply disturbing that no one who has not experienced it can understand enough to fully empathize with those who have.

    No matter how Mr. Hayden’s situation turns-out, he brought some great vicarious experiences to those of us who watched that group of people create and restore some amazing firearms. I might be disappointed in him personally, but will never regret watching the show.

  31. He will lose his most prized possession if convicted which is his federal firearms license class III. Although this guy knew how to manufacture firearms he was cocky.

    • Will lost his FFLs a long time ago. Red Jacket began operating under Vince Buckles’ FFLs in 2010, and now they operate under Joe Meaux’s FFLs.

  32. Just crazy. I have watched every episode of this show. I really don’t like Will, he seems like an asshole and an egomaniac but if all these allegations are true, good god.

  33. First off, you people who say he will get raped in prison is full of shit, that crap doesn’t go on in prison, you people are talking out of your ass, and he wont be in solitary confinement he will be sent to a prison with other sex offenders if convicted, let the man have his day in court, allegations like this are often falsified, let the man defend himself before you lay judgement…

  34. First off, you people who say he will get raped in prison is full of shit, that crap doesn’t go on in prison, you people are talking out of your ass, and he wont be in solitary confinement he will be sent to a prison with other sex offenders if convicted, let the man have his day in court, allegations like this are often falsified, let the man defend himself before you lay judgement…

  35. You know how many family members are having sex wit echother in Louisiana ?? A WHOLE LOT !! That’s how many! U gonna see a lot a scared MO-FO’s down in dat neck of da woods now! Ho boy everyones gonna be tellin bout dis one dat one momma dadda granny! My brotha done dis to my momma my momma done dis to my sister!! OMG ! Nobody safe no more down there dats for sure..dr fill gonna be a busy man umhmm..

  36. People of the Gun? Being a pedophile has nothing to do with gun ownership. Poor commentary on a very sad story about the abuse of 2 girls.

  37. People of the Gun? Being a pedophile has nothing to do with gun ownership. Poor commentary on a very sad story about the abuse of 2 girls.

    • My thoughts too. If I were dying of cancer and there was no hope for my recovery, this person of the gun would think hard on sniper shooting Will Haden from the courthouse if he were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I don’t think I’m alone, as one of the people of the gun, on that kind of anger towards the monsters that do this to children.

      Conceding that all of one type of person are condemned by an individual who is adjacent in appearance is akin to racism. If the media wants to defame “people of the gun” for the monstrous misbehavior of individuals, then let that media stand on their prejudice and bigotry. I have no more in common with Will Haden than I do with Adam Lanza. In fact I would shoot either if I were the one to catch them in their acts.

  38. Koyote tan:: you a crazy person! You a crazy person wit a gun! You can’t say I gonna shoot this person and dat person! What da hell ?r you crazy?you not a person that gonna be a hero cause you killen people then some other crazy people say they gonna shoot koyote tan cause he be killen people and they like people that be killen other folks! Then what if willy innocent cause of mestaken identy den wat ? Den you be a killer? All u gun people shulde stop says in how tuff you is cause you got a gun and you gonna do dis and you gonna do dat with yur gun? You ain’t gunna dos nuffin so shut up already! Gun crazy fools! Umhmm ..

  39. And stephy said dadda not guilty of nuffin! She says sissy was mad cause all da liein bout her poppa! And she was sickend bout all da liein bout willy! Now she sayin dadda done nasty wit me and sissy ? Dis girl must be crazy! What in da world is she talkin bout now?willy mus be shakin his dam head sayin Lordy lord why stephy trien to take all my money?she might has herself some crazie ideas bout do sum bad stuf to willy!cuz we all herd her say willy done no rong to her and sissy now we gonna belieb sum new story she sayin? Na you cant say dat stuff! Sumtin rong ! Umhmm..

  40. what you all talking about she was never raped quit saying steph was raped. allegations of improper touching and how many of you men ever did with your sisters and cousins or kids. look in the mirror judge your selfs. She never told her husband this stuff. and never took poly test. no proof of will doing this stuff. lot of men are over protective of their kids dont mean they pedophiles. Till she passes a polygraph test and semen found in those younger sisters he innocent. Amazing you can say and accuse someone of such and all beileve what you hear. God the judge and all have to answer to him. so will. stef, your maker knows the truth you have to face him someday

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