Ferguson, MO demo (courtesy returnofkings.com)

“If things continue as they have, it won’t be the revolution you fantasize about. It won’t be freedom-loving patriots rising up against a tyrant. It will be giant, collective special interest groups rising up against you. Their armies will be massive and violent because the immune system designed to control them will have withered away after years of your deconstruction and condemnation. And you will have thought you were sticking it to the man.” – Anonymous Cop, The Ferguson Riots Show Why Good Cops Will Quit [via returnofkings.com]

198 Responses to Quote of the Day: You Say You Want a Revolution Edition

  1. I’d rather face the violent, unwashed hoards than militarized police in tanks with battlefield-grade weapons.

        • WGAS? He can probably get several 30-rd mags off, wildly spraying the countryside, before someone fires one shot between his eyes. Machine guns are useless for most purposes other than disposing of ammo surpluses. My semi AR is in every way the equal of the select fire rifle of the LEO, except fun. And yes, I have used both, carried a select fire SBR in VN, XM-177E2. 90% or more of the 1600 rounds I fired in that year were semi auto. Just don’t plan to restrict me to a bolt action .22 with a 4-rd magazine.

        • This may be true in GA, but here in WA it is not. The only full auto guns we have in my department and the surrounding cities are for the SWAT guys. All the guns I use on duty are personally owned.

        • Most? Nah. Most SWAT teams have em, but putting select-fire carbines in cruisers where they can be stolen would be ridiculous.

        • #1, most versions of the AR-15 that police have are semi-auto. There may be some older M-16s out there, but damn near all the newly aquired rifles are semi

          #2, what difference does it make? You would be a moron to use your rifle in full auto unless completely surrounded and about to be overrun and killed and you have <30 left of your life. Once you get the first couple of rounds off it damn near impossible to aim any of the "automatic" shots. There is a reason the military converted the M-16 A2 to "burst" mode and the vast majority of M-4s issued are also in "burst" (burst is 3-4 rounds auto then you must repull the trigger). Full auto is stupid for a rifle. Full auto is only useful on a belt-fed machine gun which is then used to lay down supressive fire. (supressive fire isn't designed to actually kill the enemy, unless they are stupid enough to stick their head up, it is mainly for keeping the enemy pinned down while assault troops manuver into better position so they can engage the enemy with their semi-auto rifles.

        • @UnapologeticallyAmerican Actually the latest M4A1 that the Army is planning on replacing all existing M16a2’s and M4’s removed burst and put back auto. It has been said (which I think is quite true) that the burst mechanism makes the trigger pull inconsistent, even when firing in semi-automatic.

          But regardless the only time I fired “burst” in the military was at the range when we needed to burn off extra ammo.

      • Actually, it is the M-16s, M-4s, M-203s, MRAPS, M-113s… actual battlefield weapons. The police are better armed now than most of the countries we have fought in the past 30-40 years.

        • And those weapons will be useful after guerrillas kill the cops and hijack them.

          Or hold the cops’ families for ransom in exchange for the keys to the vehicles and depots.

          21st century civil war will be oh so nastier than the 19th, hope the powers-that-be can be made to understand that before it comes to pass…

        • Sure sign me up for the M-113. You know its made of aluminum. many infantry rifles easily shoot right through it

    • Exactly. I’ll take the violent, dangerous, chaos of the Wasteland over the “safety and security” of the police nanny states.

      To quote Fallout:

      Mr. House: “Surely you know that I am Robert Edwin House, President, CEO, and sole proprietor of the New Vegas Strip. What do you make of what you’ve seen here?”

      Courier Six: [ I much prefer the wastes…]

        • Not necessarily, the game is made so that you essentially have several different endings, some better, some worse, neither that’s all the way “good” or “bad”. The outcome of fighting for Mr. House is much the better than the outcome of fighting for the Legion. Though I believe the one that’s best for the future of the people Mojave wasteland is when you side with yourself, and take on everyone at the end. With Yes Mans help. However siding with Mr. House does lead to a much more technologically advanced New Vegas.

        • I usually sided with him myself, but that was more out of greed than anything else. He has a very promising path for humanity and the means to put it in play. I usually figured I would be the Vader to his Palpatine. While he runs the show I take care of smaller issues that require more finesse than a securitron can manage. All while becoming unimaginably wealthy and having the freedom to do damn near anything I want.

          I usually don’t play very nice characters.

    • I wonder if RF regularly reads ROK. If so I wonder if I can trust his judgement. Why would he post on this “article”. This is starting to get ridiculous.

    • At least it’s lawful to defend yourself with lethal force when attacked by the angry mob.

      As per the article, I’d be more sympathetic to the good cops if they would help bust bad cops. Professional courtesy or the “blue wall” should never outweigh the duty to uphold the law.

      • “As per the article, I’d be more sympathetic to the good cops if they would help bust bad cops. Professional courtesy or the “blue wall” should never outweigh the duty to uphold the law.”

        Agreed. If corrupt, unprofessional, trigger-happy, overzealous police were good at maintaining order, Mexico would be more peaceful than Switzerland.

  2. This was a good article. Instead of “do what I say” he tries to explain it like we are adults. I do wonder if he is a little tone deaf invoking J Edgar Hoover. The “new right,” as they have apparently named us, probably wouldn’t stand for Hoovers tactics, even if they WERE only used on commies.

    • I disagree that this was a good article. The author states that cops “still have their hearts in the right place; they can be swayed and won over with your support.” Why do they need to be swayed and won over to the side of liberty? They should already be there!

    • It may be a lame article, but the possibility of what he suggests is spot on. When I was in AIT in 96′, I had five roommates. All of them ex gang members. They asked me one day what I thought would happen if Black people would arm up and start a revolt. The rest of the conversation floored me. They did not hide the fact that in their scenario it was all about race. If this were to happen, no one would be the winners. At least no one in this country would be the winners.

  3. He presumes those in the “army” of oppressors won’t turn on their betters esp if the oppressors’ families are caught behind enemy lines

    • That is an assumption I’ve been arguing against for a decade or more. Some people seem to assume that anyone in the military or police are mindless automatons who will kill anyone their masters designate. If there is a beginning to a revolution in the US for any reason even remotely justified, the government will not be issuing weapons to the military, because they would not know which way those weapons would be pointed. If they are, indeed, stupid enough to do so, they will learn quickly if they survive. Gun grabbers, in particular, need to realize this, as the military and police are largely POTG. When told to shoot somebody, they will either refuse or they will shoot somebody. Who they might shoot is always going to be a question. Give them aircraft with bombs? Tanks? How stupid are you?

      • Larry. the police already have no compunction enforcing, arresting, and testifying against citizens for whatever (unconstitutional) laws get enacted. They state it’s not their job to question, and they don’t want to lose their job or pension. Put a mother in prison for three or more years for mistakenly carrying a licensed firearm into NJ? No problem. Just look at what happens in NY, NJ, and CA as some of the more extreme examples.

        As for shooting civilians if ordered, I don’t know. We aren’t there yet. But history is not on your side. I would note that the BLM had no problem positioning snipers at the Bundy Ranch on day one.

        • yep. exactly.

          The fact that “they” ensure that the police aren’t members of their own community any more doesn’t help. At all.

          It used to be friends/neighbors were your neighborhood friendlies. When I was growing up I knew every single cop who patrolled around my family’s home. Stopped at their cruiser, said Hi brought coffee or juice, etc.

          Now, you have no idea where “your cops” are from.

        • Right now a lot of that draconian enforcement is directly tied to revenue generation as well as the individual officer’s advancement. If there truly was a revolution I think many police, including and especially commanders, would support freedom.

        • So cops have no qualms about jamming good people up as long as it advances their careers.

        • Agreed. While there would most certainly be individuals, even entire units, in the military that would defect to the rebellion, there would also be those who would side with the government. That’s how it went down in Syria and Liberia.

        • Oh, sure. We’re not talking mental giants putting themselves on par with the SC. Those questions are for courts to decide, and voters to decide. But if, for example, the congress declared it a capital crime to be black, and ordered all blacks shot on sight, there would be tens of millions of armed Americans on the street in the morning, in every city and town in the country. Any manner of government forces ordering them to disband, stand down and let us enforce this law, would be engaged. By the end of the day, most of the people executed would have been Congressmen. Which is what I said, referring to a revolution based on rational causes.

          And as for BLM snipers at Bundy’s ranch, their opponents had snipers placed, too. If BLM had opened fire, it is entirely possible they may have had 10,000 armed men to shoot at within 24 hours, with 100,000 more on the way as fast as they could drive. And they knew it. And they stood down, although I suspect Bundy was actually in the wrong, BLM bungled it.

      • The best example to this internet old argument is to simply look at the history of civil wars currently going on, or years past. Syria is a great example. When the government went too far, soldiers and even their commanders began defecting to the rebel side in droves. However, plenty of Loyalist remained with the government to continue the fight. Much the same would happen in the United States. In the case of the Government, “crossing that line,” there will be defections and desertions in the military. Then there will also be those so loyal to the regime that they will do anything for them. Then the civil war drags on for year after bloody year until one side eventually prevails over the other, or both sides stalemate and an armistice ensues.

  4. This, many times over.

    I am a (long) retired cop and i worked Chicago’s west side for a big part of my career.

    With the help of the main stream media, the race haters and baiters are moving us quickly along to a major confrontation. When it ends, there will be no winners but our nation will be destroyed from within.

    It wouldn’t take much for an outside agitator to fire things up and get a race war going.

    • Do you mean, mr. Jackson? Or those New black panthers? Race baiters have never quit and won’t. Those groups have destroyed more among the races than Barack. Especially when the money is so good.

      • “It wouldn’t take much for an outside agitator to fire things up and get a race war going.”

        I have been thinking about this a great deal… I am not sure I agree with much in this thread because I cannot pretend to know all the things people are stating as though they are fact, or judgments arrived via anecdotal evidence.

        I know this much. Our border with Mexico is wide open. ISIS is here, even if its only a handful of them, and they recruit heavily. What we have within our borders are 1) a motivated outside agitator filled with hate and 2) an enormous percentage of the population that is ready to organize and fight. I agree with you. At this point it wouldn’t take much to get it started.

        Should it get started (and I pray it never does), I doubt anybody would win. In my mind… If ISIS, then La Raza also, against everyone else? It ends in a big, useless mess with new boundary lines drawn in several places. The thought turns my stomach.

    • Just because Adolf offered a “solution” didn’t mean it was the correct one. Sure, there are probably good Liberty minded people out there being fooled by the race baiters. But, I believe that the larger push against the police state is inclusive of left, right, and middle because the police state is dangerous and wrong.

      Officers, I don’t want your extra “help.” Do a narrowly defined job and follow the Constitution; nothing less and nothing more.

    • An actual race war would be short. Vicious, but short. Then racial problems will disappear. All of us, and all sane people in the country, should have as a high priority avoiding that, although not “at all costs”. That is reserved for justice and equality of opportunity.

  5. Obviously an old white cop with no concern for minorities. A dinosaur. He shouldn’t worry about quitting because he’ll probably get replaced soon enough.

    And if you characters that want to overthrow a popularly elected black or Democratic President don’t think that he’ll shoot your ass in order to keep his paycheck coming then you are kidding himself. As long as he’s still a cop, that is; once he’s gone he’ll be standing among you, lamely bitching about the same things that every T-bagger complains about.

      • My comment or “deep insight” was directed at jesus for his asinine comments. If you would like some mockery mikey boy, I would be happy to oblige.

        • Jerry, we are on the same page. And we were actually posting at the same time. My response was for Jesus as well.

        • Confusion from both of you coincidentally beginning with “Wow”. Heyzoos is quite the tool, isn’t he? My guess is he’s about 12. And a dropout. Probably a gangbanger, although using a computer may contradict that.

    • He’s just mad that CNN deleted their comments section. We may see an overflow of these types due to the fact they have no lives but liberal trolling on CNN. Now that their main purpose of existence is destroyed, we can expect many to commit suicide, and the rest to flee to other parts of the internet.

  6. I suspect he is correct. However it will be the ones who are out at night, and NOT during the day out their starting it.

  7. It seems that at least a small group of protesters are getting wise to the race baiters like Jackson, Sharpton, and their like. The video of one such confrontation where the former is being told he’s not wanted in Ferguson was a great example that I hope takes a spark amongst the black community. Unfortunately even without those big names stoking the flames, if a massive violent conflict within our borders were to start in a place like Ferguson, MO the sides would undoubtably be defined by the color of your skin and nothing else.
    Reflecting, I have worked with quite a few black men that were less ‘black’ than some white men (to stereotype). These guys cared nothing for race, just hard work and fair play. I fear however if a revolution made up of the likes of Ferguson, those men would be taken in by neither side.
    Where do we go from here?

  8. Wow jesus, just wow….for someone who bears that name you seem very intolerant of other viewpoints. You resort to name calling and rants that actually disqualify your ability to make a valid point.

    Some day you may live to be as old as Bud, the Chi-town cop, hopefully by then you will have his wisdom. You certainly could use a heavy dose.

    You scoff at his comments of our nation being destroyed from within?? He was not saying Democrat or Republican folks are the cause alone, but merely pointing out an obvious scenario that we may face. It is hardly inconceivable, now is it?

  9. The “whole” militarization things has become overblown and out of context. It is not the toys, it is the tactics, attitude and training. It is when MRAP are deployed to deal with unpaid parking tickets and other non-violent crimes which is the issue. Just like the extra furniture on AR-15s, politicians are focusing on the wrong aspect of the problem. They new focus on the toys is wrong — it is how they are being used.

    The media grand stander and the race baiters unfortunately work hand-in-hand. The media wants the rating and the race baiters want this moment, this chaos for power. If the officer was black, this would not have even been a story. If the media and all its trucks did not show up, the riots would not have happened. The new media — that being social media — is sometimes worse because it provides no context, no back story and huge leaps of conclusions.

    How this WHOLE thing has been handles is a mess. The messaging from day one from the police has been all bad.

    While I have no direct evidence, Fat Al, Jesse “there is never enough money” Jackson, Holder and POTUS IMHO are somehow involved in both the making and extending of this mess for their own twisted agendas.

    As I have posted before, I fear there will be a political end that we are being driven to versus something that resembles the law and due process. This officer will not be given a fair chance.

    All that being said, the person who wrote the article wants to ignore that is the many bad cops and bad acts by bad cops that have slowly built us up to this point. EVEN IF, the bad cops are the minority, law enforcement has not cleaned house and many times are allowed to remain on the job.

    Holder, the crook that he is, has been part of the problem that people in urban communities are upset about

    The people of Ferguson should not worry about Bob McCulloch, it is Holder they should worry about

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/08/20/ferguson-holder-investigation-police-shooting-column/14332185/

    But Holder’s own record belies his lofty promise. As the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia from 1993 to 1997, Holder was in charge of policing the local police. When police violence spiraled out of control, he did little to protect D.C. residents from rampaging lawmen.

    The number of killings by D.C. police doubled between 1988 and 1995, the year 16 civilians died due to police gunfire. D.C. police shot and killed people at a higher rate than any other major city police department, as a Pulitzer Prize-winning Washington Post investigation revealed in late 1998. The Post reported that “Holder said he did not detect a pattern of problematic police shootings and could not recall the specifics of cases he personally reviewed.” Holder declared: “I can’t honestly say I saw anything that was excessive.”

    The unions protect bad cops, the politicians protect cops for union votes.

    There are SO many special interest groups for every stupid cause on earth these days, it is difficult to do any job. Until integrity returns, good cops will always suffer from the acts of bad cops. It is the way things have bee driven and I see no end to it. But, it starts with the good cops and good citizens all pushing back and say “enough”

    We need our government back, our schools back and the good cops back.

  10. There is a grain of truth to this. A massive breakdown in societal order would force people to choose from a few basic groups defined by race, income, and ideology. Unfortunately I think most cops would side with the statists, the patriots would try to form militia and establish order apart from the statists, and the groups defined by race would look out for their own at everyone else’s expense.

    Anyone who tries to shelter in place hoping for rescue better hope the right group finds them.

    To address the point of the article though, Americans distrust the police because one officer having a bad day can destroy your life. The “immune system” he’s describing is beginning to attack healthy cells, not just foreign contaminants and cancerous growths. So yes, we’re starting to say enough. If we can’t trust a guard dog to refrain from going for our throats, we get rid of it and replace it with one that we can trust. I move for abolishing police and replacing them with sherriff’s departments. Unfortunately the underlying problem with our system is the breakdown of society. There is no fixing that, so things will only get worse from here on out.

    • “Unfortunately the underlying problem with our system is the breakdown of society.”

      That is the key. And society is breaking down because values and families are breaking down.

      Say what you want about “traditional Christian” values in the U.S. Regardless of whatever “failings” people may believe those values entail, they do NOT entail: beating, robbing, raping, or killing people; screwing over neighbors, customers, employers, or corworkers for personal pleasure and gain; turning out garbage products and services or making a profit at the expense of others; wrecking your family, neighborhood, or community; and being so wrapped up in yourself that you can never assist family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, or your community.

    • Our sheriff dept. is corrupt as hell. The “good ol’ boy” days are over.
      I live in rural NC, by the way.

  11. The appropriate disinfectant is to get out and vote. Too many people spend more time choosing toothpaste, commenting on blogs, or Facebook, than voting. Yep, sometimes it’s a choice between chicken and turkey. But you can also vote in primaries, and sometimes they offer steak. Even more importantly, you have to convince other people also to try new things, and vote. Just like the grocery store, one purchase does not make much of a difference, but over time if you keep doing it, soon they respond to your preferences. 30 years ago they offered toothpaste in spearmint and peppermint. Now they offer it in bubble gum and other kid-friendly flavors. Politicians respond to the people who vote, not to the people who sit on their couch and Twitter their gripes.

    • “Sometimes (voting) is like choosing between chicken and turkey..” But you still need to vote!

      That has to be the most accurate voting quote I have ever heard. I’m stealing it and using it to persuade people (who vote like me of course 🙂 ) to get out and vote!

      • I disagree. If you have not done the homework required to make a rational decision, stay home. Voting for a party affiliation is the mark of an imbecile.

    • My intelligent, informed vote is joined by a multitude of others who will simply cast a ballot for a Democrat because they live in the city. Voting is merely the tip of the iceberg. It is certainly a right that should be exercised, but it is also contaminated by a sea of idiots. And since we don’t have voter ID, those idiots can vote multiple times.

      • My intelligent, informed vote is joined by a multitude of others who will simply cast a ballot for a Democrat because they live in the city.

        I guess the question is.. Why are you still there?

        In a democracy, once you’re on the other side of 50%+1, you’ve lost, and you can only either leave, be more persuasive and win converts, or kill enough people on the majority side to reduce them below that threshold.

        • That last may be a problem, since a lot of those voters are already dead! Gee, I guess that would be a problem in converting them, too, huh?

    • When election time comes, most people just think it is about who is running for President. The more important vote is the local and State. It isn’t the President who rezones your single family home subdivision to include appartments. It isn’t the President that chooses to repave the roads in front of the School Board members homes (even though it was done last year). It isn’t the President that allocates funding for schools to be used on sensitivity training and political correctness events. It in’t the President who votes against giving businesses property tax breaks so they build a factory in your town creating jobs and business. It isn’t the President who voted themselves a 6-figure retirement salary paid for by your property tax (you would be suprised how many local elected officials retirement is > than Congress/Senate/President

      It is the US Representatives and Senators that we vote for in 2 months that will choose to either keep or impeach Obama. If you don’t vote, you have no right to bitchabout what your government does. Voting isn’t a “right”. It is a RESPONIBILITY

      • +1

        As an example, the good citizens of Fergueson made no concerted effort to change their elected officials before this tragedy, nor did they attempt to pressure the police department from the political side. You snooze, you lose.

  12. Can you count, suckers? I say, the future is ours… if you can count! That’s 20,000 hardcore members. Forty-thousand counting affiliates…and twenty-thousand more, not organized, but ready to fight. 60,000 soldiers!

    Now, there ain’t but 20,000 police in the whole town…

    Can you dig it!?

  13. IMO, the issue of the police and their relationship with the general public is very, very complex and there are many problems – some of which the police have some control over, others that they do not.

    The police are the first-line fighters in the war against some people who use some drugs some of the time (aka the “war on drugs”). This can lead to police corruption and the laws can be used to help target minority communities. It builds resentment and distrust.

    Some police forces (perhaps most) are empowered by politicians confiscate property, regardless of whether or not a crime has been committed (asset forfeiture laws). This forces innocent citizens to waste money fighting in court (or they simply give up, and accept that the police stole their property). It builds resentment and distrust.

    Some police harass law-abiding citizens because they dare carry a firearm or commit some other “crime” that has no victim. This builds resentment and distrust.

    Police brutality is real. That doesn’t mean that all police brutalize citizens, but far too many of them do. Dogs get shot. Citizens who are filming the police are harassed and/or arrested. Excessive force is used on suspects, some of whom end up dead. Some cops, simply put, are bullies with a badge. These issues build resentment and distrust.

    In some cases, the police arrive to a call because a family member is requesting help for a mentally disturbed individual. Instead of helping, the police end up shooting and killing that person. That builds resentment and distrust.

    Some police officers look more like military soldiers than the “peace officers” of the past. They are given military equipment that indeed makes them appear to be more of an arm of the military rather than local law enforcement. That can build resentment and distrust.

    When none of the cops in a department speak bad about their fellow officers who they KNOW have committed shameful acts, that builds resentment and distrust.

    On the other hand …

    When police trust and support citizens – e.g. Police Chief James Craig of Detroit (supporting citizens becoming armed and defending themselves) – that builds trust and respect.

    When police officers genuinely help citizens who need help and save people’s lives, that builds trust and respect.

    When police are kind and respectful to those who they serve, that builds trust and respect.

    In some cases, police are unfairly criticized by either the media or the opportunists (Jackson/Sharpton/etc.), often before all of the relevant information is available about a particular case. That is often not the fault of the police but the fault of those who are “reporting” on the story and talking before they know anything.

    In short, it’s complicated.

    IMO, many of the problems are not the police officers themselves but the politicians who have passed awful laws that these officers are obligated to enforce.

    HOWEVER … that does NOT mean that police are blameless; there are plenty of things that they MUST do better. There are far too many corrupt cops, unethical cops, thugs with a badge, etc. These problems are real.

    But if many of the laws were repealed, that would be a big step towards returning cops to the role of “peace officer.” Perhaps additional and/or better training would also be in order in some cases, so that (some) cops don’t immediately react to the presence of a dog by shooting it.

    I’d much prefer to have police forces that the large majority of the citizens trust because the police actually do the right things. But we’re a long way from that right now.

  14. I think “Anonymous Cop” has some valid points. Police Departments are managed by hired bureaucrats and elected politicians. Police Officers on the streets, are not making Department Policy. Those “managing” them at the highest level are the ideologues, technocrats and bureaucrats implementing political agendas that fundamentally serve to preserve their own power and control over the polity and the people.

    What if every Police Department had to conduct a yearly “Vote of Confidence” among the Field Officers and Detectives for their hired Police Chief, Elected Mayor and District Attorney? How do you think that would come-out? I bet the return of “No Confidence” would dominate across the Nation. Further that you could correlate the Crime Rate and Public Relations success directly to the “Vote of Confidence” outcome of a given City with positive outcome equaling lower Crime Rate and better Public Relationships in the Community and negatives outcome equaling higher Crime Rate and worse Public Relationships in the Community.

    What if, a “No Confidence Vote” resulted in some sort of consequence for the “management” being voted on?

    I think demonizing the Officers in the Field has become a sort of “national pastime” created by the politicians and bureaucrats to protect their own power and advance their political agendas. It is supported by the News Media, Internet Social Media and Entertainment Industry. While some Officers need exposure for bad performance, the majority of Officers are considered by their “managers” as low-hanging fruit to be sacrificed to serve their “leaders” personal/political agendas and the Public is incapable of seeing the difference.

  15. ‘What exactly is a militarized cop anyway? Weapons and tactics have always evolved. Were the police militarized when they transitioned from revolvers to semi-automatic pistols? Or when they began wearing bulletproof vests?’

    No, it’s when they started throwing flash-bang grenades into baby cribs in the middle of the night, you moron.

    • That is illegal action which should result in firing followed by prosecution, has but little to do with militarization. The real question on the subject of militarization is how it came up as a major media consideration in this instance? One cop, in a police car, not an MRAP, with a handgun, not a machine gun, who did his job under extreme circumstances, when he did not even know why he was being viciously attacked and beaten, is a long ways from anything representing “militarization”. Why, it’s almost as though the word was out that the next thing we have to make a big deal out of (never let a crisis go to waste) is police militarization. But that couldn’t happen, right?

      • The outcry against “police militarization” was after people saw the way law enforcement handled the People in days following the initial incident. For me and many I’ve spoken to, this has nothing to do with the Mike Brown shooting for us. It is about trends in law enforcement and the way government was handling the situation in Ferguson. Also remember that law enforcement was harassing and man handling main stream journalists. Essentially, law enforcement pissed off MSM.

        Government is now between a rock and a hard place. For those who are outraged because of the shooting incident, there will be anger if the officer is not indicted or not found guilty of something substantial after trial. For those who are outraged by law enforcement practices, there will be anger if those practices aren’t changed for the better. When the dust clears, government is going to have to double down on tyranny, IMHO.

      • Throwing flash-bangs into baby cribs was an example of militarized police. One that was not only NOT prosecuted but fully condoned by the police force. 3:00am no knock raids over trivial offensives by paramilitary police/soldiers with fully automatic assault weapons spraying bullets all over the neighborhood – that is the point in which the police became ‘militarized’. This anonymous cop can’t figure this out and that disqualifies his opinions IMHO. We live in a state where if I wake up to my door being broken down in the middle of the night my first thought will not be that I’m the victim of a home invasion but that the police got the wrong address. I am therefore more afraid of the police than I am of the criminals they are supposed to be protecting me from. The cure is worse than the disease.

        And no, police militarization had nothing to do with the shooting, but was called into question due to the police response to the rioting. I don’t have a problem with a heavy handed show of force in such situations, however the local PD has to go back to pretending they are there to ‘serve and protect’ that same community when this all boils down. So I think it would be better for riot control to be left to the National Guard. The public should know that when the boys in camo show up it’s the National Guard, not the police, and they mean business.

  16. While I don’t entirely agree with the premise of the officer’s article, the points made regarding the ignorance of the general public fueled by a contemptuous mainstream media are spot on. The best hope our nation has is a peaceful return to the principles of freedom and limited government that our Founding Fathers envisioned. Should a peaceful return to liberty and freedom by impossible, I have more than a passing concern about the lack of principled leadership in our nation that was clearly present in the 1770’s. I don’t fantasize about a revolution, I fantasize about not needing one.

  17. ALL NONSENSE. Police are laughing, serving themselves, and collecting pensions. THEY are backed up by legislators systematically depriving citizens of lawful self protection AND know citizens will not form groups to take on police by force of arms. Why should they worry about citizens raising arms and chanting no justice, no peace…seems protesters believe volume trumps lead. Government forces backed down at Bundy Ranch because armed citizens decided federal government over reach, in this particular case, was excessive. When NV police realized it was possible THEY may not make it home safe (easy to terrorize women with mace) when citizens show up with AR’s, they beat feet home, no doubt to live to terrorize citizens another day.

    No…people don’t want a revolution, they want police to be fair, they want restraint, they want justice when a cop kills a citizen, they want truth. Instead in Ferguson, we get a false narrative (both sides), false fractured eye socket, third party narrative from a friend telling Wilson side of the story. Time and again, authority shapes the narrative with the sole purpose of limiting damage to their institution and their own.

    Is Mr. Brown a thug, evidence shows he is. Did he strike Officer Wilson, we don’t know until they decide to show pictures. Did Brown run away, yes. Officer Wilson shot an unarmed thug under circumstances yet determined and thirteen days later, we still don’t know, just as the Ferguson police want it to be. Does a thug deserve death because an officer fears for his life? Citizens fear for their lives around thugs every day, they’re not authorized to kill them. Citizens get bitch slapped by thugs, yet still not a reason to shoot them. Seems a badge becomes a 007 card when the wearing of one should signify a higher standard, greater capacity of thought and higher responsibility in the presence of a community and among thugs.

    • While I cannot completely agree, I’d bet we could agree that all LEO should be equipped with full time video cameras on their persons, as well as dash-mounts. After that, if for some reason your camera did not record an action, your testimony is automatically suspect, and disregarded completely in the face of contradiction. Should address all of your problems, real or imagined, and costs but little in today’s world. 10 years from now, opening the door to a cruiser may automatically launch a drone to hover 50 ft up videotaping you even if you’re just taking a piss.

      Oh, and if a thug bitch slaps me, I will shoot him. Several times, most likely.

    • That’s all crap.

      Bitch slap me and i will put six in your ten ring.

      That cop was out there representing all of us. He had the full weight of the law on his side.

      Did he know brown had just committed a stromng armed robbery?

      beats me.

      But i guarantee you Brown did and when the Officer Wilson stopped, backed up and started to get out of hois squad, Brown decided he had to do something to stop the cop from doing his job.

      That job was protectying all of us. When brown stood up to Officer Wilson and decided to fight, he was showing defiance to the all of us as described in the laws of Missouri.

      Officer Wilson couldn’t back down, he had sworn an Oath. He had promised to bear true faith and allegiance no matter what the risks were.

      And he did just that.

      He was in a position that every cop in this country has beeni n numerous times. Everyone of them is subjected to Monday mornoing quarterbacks who had the leisure and time to carefully review a situation and decide what course of action should have been taken.

      But a cop doesn’t have that time. he has seconds to decide between right and wrong, good or bad.

      And no matter what, regardless of what decision he makes, he knows someone is going to second guess him.

      He knows that someone with a personal agenda is going to use the cop’s success or failure to further his own goals. He knows he will be sacrificed to serve by the people who give him orders , the people who pay him and the community that he protects.

      When this is all over and done, we’re going to be lucky if every single cop in the whole country isn’t ready to walk off the job.

      Officer Wilson was representing me, you and everyone else that believes that the laws are for everyone. He did his job and now he and his family are in hiding because mob rule has replaced justice.

      For the cops out there, present, retired or just no longer on the job:

      A police officer in Ferguson, Missouri has transmitted an “Officer Needs Help!” call.

      Time to roll

      • When this is all over and done, we’re going to be lucky if every single cop in the whole country isn’t ready to walk off the job.

        That sounds good to me. Why don’t you use your super secret decoder ring to send up the Bat Signal and get that done.

        Time to roll… my eyes.

      • When this is all over and done, we’re going to be lucky if every single cop in the whole country isn’t ready to walk off the job.

        If the bad cops who abuse their authority, and the ‘good’ cops who enable that or turn a blind eye to it, and the ‘good’ cops who just don’t want or care to know when that’s happening decide to walk away, how many would actually be left? And how much worse off would a properly-armed citizenry actually be?

      • Bitch slap me and i will put six in your ten ring. (Death….for pushing a cop….nice…varifys what some say…license to kill without accountability)

        That cop was out there representing all of us. He had the full weight of the law on his side. (Uniform & badge doesn’t represent me or fellow citizens)

        Did he know brown had just committed a strong armed robbery? (No he didn’t)

        But i guarantee you Brown did and when the Officer Wilson stopped, backed up and started to get out of his squad, Brown decided he had to do something to stop the cop from doing his job. (Agree)

        That job was protecting all of us. When brown stood up to Officer Wilson and decided to fight, he was showing defiance to the all of us as described in the laws of Missouri. (

        How Officer Wilson protects the people of MO by shooting a cop pusher / cigar stealing thug is beyond me)

        Officer Wilson couldn’t back down, he had sworn an Oath. He had promised to bear true faith and allegiance no matter what the risks were.
        (Really?…Thug Brown Brown was outbound and tracking, Officer Wilson fired in his weapon, Thug Brown stopped, then Thug Brown was shot.)

        But a cop doesn’t have that time. he has seconds to decide between right and wrong, good or bad. (Death for pushing a cop, I say that’s bad)

        He knows that someone with a personal agenda is going to use the cop’s success or failure to further his own goals. He knows he will be sacrificed to serve by the people who give him orders , the people who pay him and the community that he protects.

        (When you get coin from your Castle, that’s your choice….don’t like it find another job)

        When this is all over and done, we’re going to be lucky if every single cop in the whole country isn’t ready to walk off the job. (I hope every cop walks off the job, then citizens can arm themselves and clean up the mess police & and legislators made).

        Officer Wilson was representing me, you and everyone else that believes that the laws are for everyone. He did his job and now he and his family are in hiding because mob rule has replaced justice. (If he had a pair, he would be in public answering questions….mob rule, his tactical cool partners have enough ammo & armaments to handle a lame shouting mob).

        A police officer in Ferguson, Missouri has transmitted an “Officer Needs Help!” call. (Which is what he should of done….now the call is to minimize damage to the force and figure out a way to blame a thug for his own demise).

    • “Citizens get bitch slapped by thugs, yet still not a reason to shoot them.”

      That’s a fine line there. You certainly CAN use your gun and lethal force to protect yourself from an unarmed attacker if you believe you are at risk of great injury or death. Its a fine line, especially if their are no witnesses, just like with the Zimmerman case.

      It should be noted that the vast majority of states have totally done away with the “equal force laws”, meaning you do not need to respond with the same force you were attacked with. And rightly so, those laws were total bullshit and got innocent people who could’ve defended themselves killed regularly. So, remember everyone out there, the truth is an armed society is a polite society. Don’t go around punching people if you don’t want to get shot.

    • Citizens get bitch slapped by thugs, yet still not a reason to shoot them.

      It sure is. A 300lb 6’4″ man assaulting someone with a CHL is deserving of a good shoot, since their attack could be construed by a Reasonable Person as a deadly one. Fists can kill.

      Of course, if the Ferguson cop had an obviously good shoot, presumably info on it would have been released long ago. The coverup/stonewalling followed by militaristic force-showing implies that the cops know it wasn’t a good shoot, or the cops are massively stupid morons.

      • I agree, time either buys the narrative a thug deserved death or the truth or it will be found out that Officer Wilson got carried away and made the wrong choice and killed an unarmed thug. Ferguson is a wake up call, not in race relations, but the fact that police kill unarmed citizens for minor crimes and there is no recourse. The fraternity of Police covers, conceals and quietly keeps this fact from the public, they protect their own all in name of the thin blue line.

      • ..or they knew that nothing they said would be accepted by the ‘community’ or media, so they acted like a deer in headlights.

  18. The “Anonymous Cop” incorrectly asserts multiple things. AC operates from the premise that law enforcement exists, in part, to put down political opposition; law enforcement as the immune system against communism. AC also assumes that all of us disagreeing with law enforcement’s handling of things in Ferguson also believe that Mike Brown was wrongly killed.

    “Anonymous Cop” is making a terribly statist argument in favor of a militarized police state. Support a police state, otherwise the bogeyman will get you! With increasing militarization of law enforcement, immunity and other unreasonable privilege written into law, lack of accountability, and the rise of the post 9/11 police state, it would be suicide for individual Liberty to follow what AC is proposing.

    People who cherish their Liberty are opposing the militarization of law enforcement because it is clearly a real danger to freedom, not because they are being manipulated by the left! AC is asking us all to embrace the police state and I cannot do that.

  19. +1 Charles Dobbs. A lot of us are better armed than the hoards. Just remember what happened recently at the Bundy ranch. And all those “militia” types were presumably outgunned by MRAP’s &real automatic weapons. I agree with some of the points made in the article. How about banning no knock raids? Unjustified police stops? Swat teams for a bag of pot? And quoting Hoover is a surefire way to lose any debate.

  20. This was a well written article which some will agree with and others will not. I am of the opinion that a police officer will make statements that will not necessarily be accepted by the whole of the non-uniformed public. That being stated there are also valid comments about minority “leaders” and their exploitation of a family’s tragedy to seek the spotlight, and the press fanning the flames of community unrest giving rise to outside players arriving to worsen an already ugly situation. As I read the article I do believe that the paragraph titled REACTION is the one that caused the most discomfort for me as a supporter of 2A rights “The fringes went into full gear to exploit the incident to further their agendas. Black supremacists marched behind the mask of justice, while the confused new right wing offered indirect social media support. Freedom loving, second amendment preservers with CCW permits who would have shot Mike Brown in the same situation might have even joined the rioters if they could—just for that chance to hurt a cop and symbolically get revenge against a system that has forsaken them.” Law abiding armed citizens thrown in with the “fringes”….without a single such incident having occurred, suggesting so with what ends? Does this anonymous cop have a bone to pick with gun owners who were not a part of the problem? Does he have a problem with those who love their freedoms? Or does he simply have an agenda which this leaves an open door for him to cross at a later time? Just asking…….

  21. Anonymous cop does have a point – law enforcement does keep the lid on a dysfunctional, violent, and criminal underclass. And that is all well and good – to a point, but that is not all there is to it and ignores how that part of his job ties into an overall scheme of societal control.

    It all stems from the fact that groups with different levels of criminality require different levels of policing, punishment, and deterrence; however, the organs of our progressive establishment (government, academia, legal, media) go through tremendous contortions to ignore, obscure, and hide that fact, so the default of mode of law enforcement *must* be to treat every group the same, i.e., as the lowest common denominator, currently on display in Ferguson in all its vibrant glory, lest they get a visit from Eric Holder.

    Of course, due to the laws and regulations that permeate *every* bit of familial, social, and professional space we inhabit, you have the constant threat of encountering aggressive, militarized police (geared to treat every citizen like the lowest common denominator) in every sphere of your life. Ironically, the law abiding are, in fact, easier targets for the cops and far more likely to feel the jack boots on their neck – it’s just that they get arrested for different things. Hence the criticism of libertarian/conservative types directed at the militarization of the police, IRS, and the mailman.

    But wait, there’s more! Elements of the progressive establishment are AWARE of above and use it as a method of social control. The fear of black urban violence is used as lever to keep the law abiding white middle class in line and paying taxes. It also uses the fear of going to prison populated by blacks as a method to ensure compliance with its increasingly restrictive laws. It also uses fear of individual and/or communal violence by blacks to justify the need for its large, militarized police. Thus, the average citizen is caught between the Scylla and Charybdis of Anarchy or Tyranny. Of course, it is far easier to use this method of social control when the population is disarmed (except the criminals, of course) and that, I think, maybe The Real Truth About Guns – or at least one of them.

    Ultimately – the situation is untenable and unlikely to be resolved without some measure of violence.

  22. “If a revolution erupted, do you really think that your neighbor, blue collared Officer Smith, would zig zag his way down to the local police station to gear up and join a tyrannical government army? No, he’ll be fighting next to you because his interests are in his community and his family.”

    Unfortunately, history does not support this foolish notion. If the police have to choose between being employed, and providing and protecting their family, or being one of the little people with no money to buy food or have access to ammunition to provide and protect their family, which will they choose? Tyrannies will always guarantee full employment for the police and military that will protect the tyranny. But that can’t happen here. Says who? The police, the government, the history books? No, no, and sadly, no. An iron-fisted tyranny can spring up overnight. There is an essay out there somewhere in the Internet that talks about this very issue. It is not an essay with the happy ending we would like to imagine. I’ll try to find it.

    “You know the score pal? You’re not cop, you’re little people.” Bryant ~ Blade Runner

    • Oh, I really disagree with that. You are talking about little sh1t, while you say you’re talking about a revolution. Nationwide, 100-150 LEOs killed in a day or two while attempting to put down a righteous insurrection, even if they have succeeded in killing or arresting thousands, and they will no longer be concerned with keeping their jobs. They are not paid enough to go out the next day, when they expect to lose thousands more. They will go out because of their actual convictions, or they will not go out. The job will not matter. Scoped and semi auto rifles on every rooftop make being a bully collecting a salary no damn fun anymore.

      • I believe that they will form judicial compounds and become an even stronger tool of tyrants. Look south of our border for an example. The good cops will leave and the bad ones will take over the infrastructure while inheriting the special status privilege already existent under law.

        • I’m thinking you’re making my point. South of our border the police do not even attempt to enforce actual law, or they will be shot. Now and then someone tries, and his family wishes he hadn’t. And that is NOT anything like a justified revolution where the police have to make a decision about right and wrong, it is criminals running rampant with no reason to stop killing, cops or otherwise. In that circumstance, once again, it would be the American citizens who would rid us of the thugs, with and without badges. And there are apparently some places in Mexico attempting just that, although they have allowed themselves to be disarmed, which is a big drawback.

          And after the good cops leave, we can simply kill all the rest! Because we have NOT been disarmed.

        • Where we differ in opinion is that I don’t believe that it will ever become that black and white, defined so obviously, in America. Everything law enforcement does will be excused under the color of law. I don’t really believe there are enough non-statists left in our country for the following to happen:

          And after the good cops leave, we can simply kill all the rest! Because we have NOT been disarmed.

          Eventually, the only truly free Americans will be considered criminals by the State. It’s not really that far off now. How many potential crimes are unknowingly committed by individuals even today? IMHO, in the extreme situation people will have to choose to be law abiding serfs or free criminals. I’m also of the opinion that most will chose to live in servitude rather than be branded criminal and face the wrath of government. All of us will be lumped together with truly violent criminals and thugs. The public will disavow us and deny the legitimacy of our cause. But, I do hope that my opinion is proven incorrect should things get that far.

      • No, I’m talking about the biggest point there is…or ever was. Tyranny IS Darwinism. Survival of the fittest(or most ruthless)….law of the jungle. It’s most twisted example in the 21st century is going on in N. Korea. They make the rulers of China look like free-market hedonists. If we ever had a full-blown revolution….and a world that is W.R.O.L., I’m afraid the history of such struggles leans more heavily toward the tyranny than to the free republic.

        Here is a concept you need to get your head around. Normalcy bias. This is what every dictator and tyrant relies on, even depends on, to bring them to power. It can’t happen here. Throughout time, evil men have shown they have a clear understanding of how to use prosperity and complacency to further their rise to despotic power. “Cold, brutish, and short.” (to quote Victor Davis Hanson) has been the natural state of the world, until about 236 years ago, when it made an abrupt turn for the better.
        Look around…freedom is not breaking out all over the world, tyranny is.
        A timely financial and societal crash are the most common points of weakness. And we know what happens to the weak in a Charles Darwin scenario. Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. History is not on your side. I’m sure we would all like to believe that the best in our fellow man will shine through, but when push comes to shove, and it’s a SHTF world, and your family’s survival and yours are on the line, will you join the ranks fed, expendable slaves, or the starving, expendable free men? “But that can’t happen here.” Those are the less well-known second-to-last words, immediately preceding the more well-known, “famous last words.”

  23. I support police who first follow the law. During the search for the Boston bomber there are plenty of videos of warrant-less searches where cops routinely pointed guns at kids, old women, and fat men when they knew that their target was a skinny white kid. This is inexcusable. So to are the examples in Ferguson where cops are pointing guns at the crowd. Rule #1 is “never point your muzzle any anything you are not willing to destroy”. That applies to everyone, including the police, except the military when in a combat zone. Add the increasing use of no-knock raids for routine cases (i.e. Jose Guerena) simply because they now have all of this new cool gear and you have the current situation where the police are throwing away (have thrown away?) their moral authority.

      • Yes. That is their job. Our job is to challenge and try to change those laws, not to decide that each of us gets to decide what is moral and what is not, for example. There is a process for that, which informs us whether we are fruitcakes or everyone agrees with us. The obverse is called “taking the law into our own hands”. Generally not found to work well.

        • So peace officers who refused to turn over runaway slaves or refused to help slave hunters, even though they were obligated to under the law, or hid and transported runaway slaves were wrong?

          Disobeying an immoral law is not quite the same thing as taking the law into one’s own hand. There is a spectrum. It’s not necessarily black and white, so to speak.

        • At some point, some of us here need to make an actual distinction between not liking the jaywalking laws, and starting a justified revolution. Those questions of police returning slaves were answered by a civil war that cost 600,000 lives, and that is not the same thing as being upset at the tactics used by police under the stress of responding to a domestic terrorism attack, tactics which killed no one except a suspect. “OOoo! That bad poe leese man pointed a gun at me, let’s start a forcking WAR”! That does not make sense.

        • not the same thing as being upset at the tactics used by police under the stress of responding to a domestic terrorism attack, tactics which killed no one except a suspect.

          Summary execution of a suspect is reason enough if it is but one event in a chain of abuses. Statists tend to look at it as only one suspect executed for the common good. Non-statists realize that if the People allow a suspect here and there to be executed in the name of safety then the whole premise of individual Liberty is on shaky ground.

      • Like the military, police have an obligation to refuse clearly illegal orders. Those cops in Boston violated their oath when they repeatedly violated the 4th amendment by forcing their way into homes without a warrant. And don’t even try to say that they were “in hot pursuit” (an exception to the 4th amendment) because they had long ago lost his trail.

        But your question applies more to the new Connecticut gun registration law, which has so far been upheld by the courts. In that case, the answer is that the cops should enforce the law. If you don’t like it, then work through the political process to change it or move to a non-slave state. Anything else leads to anarchy.

        • Trouble is when you go through the process and then still denied the right of lawful self protection, what then? More paper work…repeat…denied again. At what point does one say enough is enough. End of the day, laws are created to deny lawful self protection, those laws insure employment for less than 3% of the population in the hopes of controlling 3% of the criminal population, drowning citizens with taxes ,with little measurable success.

  24. Oh, I forget to mention all of the big city police chiefs who slavishly support the gun grabbing policies of their political masters, which is helping to destroy their credibility even more.

    Given the public opposition to new gun control measures by local sheriffs in Colorado and New York, I think it is fair to say that this issue really boils down to a divide between the big city freedom-hating elites and the more liberty-minded rural communities. I trust my local county sheriffs far more than my local big city cops.

    • “I think it is fair to say that this issue really boils down to a divide between the big city freedom-hating elites and the more liberty-minded rural communities. I trust my local county sheriffs far more than my local big city cops”

      I think Phil nails it on the head there. One shining example of this is El Mayor Bloomberg, trying to push his Elitist City Nazi crap on the rest of us. That’s why I love the fact that the NRA is finally going after this angle directly. Our Police are very Pro 2A, but drive down the road about 30 minutes into the City and it’s a whole ‘nother world.

  25. The article is of interest and has some legitimate points, however, the web site Return of Kings is an atheistic, pro-rape, immoral, woman hating site for morons and idiots. ROK is the gathering place for racists and simple minded fools. They are pro-gun, yes, but the typical reader of ROK will be among those from whom you have to defend your property when the SHTF. Read the comments to get a clear view of the typical followers of ROK.com. LOSERS!

    • the web site Return of Kings is an atheistic, pro-rape, immoral, woman hating site for morons and idiots.

      Hence why cops post there?

      • I have no idea who and who is not a cop posting on there there. As is typical online people lie, change, and hide their true identity. The site’s comments by the type of readers it draws are a good example of some seriously screwed up psyches. Quote some of those comment remarks to your wife or mother and see where you find yourself.

        • I always love to see “men” offended by men speaking to other men on a men’s site about problems they experience w/ women and how to address them.

          Also discussing amongst themselves about how to become better men.

          Very offensive – Mostly to people who have swallowed the Feminist platform hook line & sinker.

          Guess we know where you stand, huh?

        • No, I see feminists as being closet lesbians and man haters. Many men on ROK who, due to their Neanderthal thought processes, have ruined their marriages and now, they group all men as Innocent and all women as guilty. Mention your mom or your wife in a positive light on that web site and see what responses you get, same as I’ve done here. Speak of the need for respect for good women and the losers come out of the woodwork like roaches when the lights go off in mobile home.

    • I read Return of Kings as regularly as I read the Truth about Guns (daily, sometimes several times a day) and I disagree with your assessment.

      Futher more I’ll note that most who feel as you do are also generally limp-wristed Leftists who don’t belong on TTAG in the first place. YMMV.

      • Your assessment is way off. I’m an ultra conservative white male, who has carried concealed for 30 plus years, am married to the same faithful wife for 37 years with two morally sound and educated children. This limp wrist as you call me stands 6 feet, weighs 225 pounds and grew up on a farm in Louisiana. You are wrong to equate morality with being a weak liberal, you have it backwards.

        • If you have bought into the Feminist platform then you are buying into Leftism. Period.

          Otherwise you are lucky to be one of those fortunate men who inherently understand women & what women “really” want and are able to do those things with little conscious understanding as to why you are successful with women. Congratulations – you are part of the 1%

          Most men are not that fortunate and most men are having an extremely tough time with the Feminist-centric relationship situation and need, desperately, sites like ROK to navigate the current hostile environment in which they find themselves.

        • I’m not a leftest, and neither are many conservative right-wing men who function by a moral compass when dealing with women today. Again, read the comments on ROK and consider how you would react if your mother, wife, daughter or other female acquaintance were spoken to in a like manner as some of the readers do. Being a gun owner, conservative, Christian male does not require me to be an lowlife foul mouth asshole to prove my manhood. And thanks for your reasonable comment.

        • Not the first time I’ve seen Mina pull the old ‘you’re not man enough’ flame-job. Just don’t ask her to tell you about the Willows and the Oaks…

        • Uhhhh, the commenter who just implied you’re a limp-wristed leftist if you disagree with her on anything(?) The Oaks and Willows thing was from another posting… long story, anyway… nevermind. I’m also a white conservative Christian male who crossed Mina’s path in a similar post once and had basically the same result, so wouldn’t take it personally. I suspect she’s had some poor male role models in her life.

        • hey, thanks, ValleyForge77, when you mentioned that the post was by a female it threw me for a moment. I’m still considering the reason a woman would support a web site that allows and promotes hatred toward one of her own. Such as this fine respectful gentleman’s comment on ROK… a white guy pretending to be black… “yaw baby if chu be grown up den chu can suck muh dick yaw! and just for keepin it real i get muh hommies too so you be havin nuff dicks to suck around yaw!” or this one “Don’t you have a dick to suck?” Both of those were comments toward a woman who disagreed with another ROK poster’s unfounded DNA research remarks. Bet they have some really decent and honorable girlfriends and/or wives, and have no idea why they are divorced and continue to go through multiple relationships with all those “bitches”. Black or white, trash is trash, and like the garbage piling up along the curbs of Detroit, trash draws and collects more trash. LOL problem is, that trash keeps breeding.

        • If you see my commentary as “not man enough” you don’t understand my point. At All.

          My point is far more complex & is a commentary on the hostile relationship between women & men created (purposefully by Leftists) by Feminism.

          Feminism’s aim is to destroy the family. They do that by destroying men & poisoning relationships between men & women by pushing their agenda items which always have at their heart a goal of destroying something good & valuable in the M/F relationship and therefore the family.

          That is what my everyday commentary is about, NOT a commentary on anyone being “man enough”.

          Sites like ROK help men who don’t understand how to circumvent & work around Feminism’s aims and help to give men & women what they BOTH really want. Because of Feminism’s integration into our core culture (currently) many men no longer understand or intrinsically know what it means “to be a man” – Feminism has been systematically training males to not be men for several generations!

          It’s great for men who understand how to be men. A lot of men today NEED HELP. Why is it is a bad thing that sites that provide that help have become popular?

        • If you see my regularly commentary as shaming men for “not being man enough” you don’t understand my point. At All.

          My point is far more complex & is a commentary on the hostile relationship between women & men created (purposefully by Leftists) by Feminism.

          Feminism’s aim is to destroy the family. They do that by destroying men & poisoning relationships between men & women by pushing their agenda items which always have at their heart a goal of destroying something good & valuable in the M/F relationship and therefore the family.

          That is what my everyday commentary is about, NOT a commentary on anyone being “man enough”.

          Sites like ROK help men who don’t understand how to circumvent & work around Feminism’s aims and help to give men & women what they BOTH really want. Because of Feminism’s integration into our core culture (currently) many men no longer understand or intrinsically know what it means “to be a man” – Feminism has been systematically training males to not be men for several generations!

          It’s great for men who understand how to be men. Very few men nowadays remember or know what that is or had the right kind of role models in childhood. That leaves a lot of men today NEEDING HELP.

          Why is it is a bad thing that sites that provide that help have become popular? Oh right,because if you skim the surface of their content you might get a bit offended. Get over it

          ps I have never made a comment about willows & oaks.

        • Mina, I respect your opinion and agree with you regarding the curse of Feminism. My wife is a beautiful girly -girl with a great education and is very aware of where our society is headed if we don’t stand up to the evil… soon. She is attacked online and in her face for not supporting feminism, but instead she is aggressively pro-active against it. Feminism is part of the obvious intent to destroy our nation, from the family unit outward. To me, feminists, lesbians, homosexual men, dykes, transgenders, and ALL progressive liberals are at the forefront of the attack on heterosexual families. When the man/woman/children family units are destroyed, we won’t be worth saving. Blessings to you.

        • I’m not really familiar with the website to say either way, Mina – and have no problem with your view of Feminism. I think we’re mostly in agreement honestly. It was just the implication that Brum might somehow be a ‘limp-wristed leftist’ that I thought was un-called for and inaccurate, as he quickly confirmed. Just reminded me of our Oaks and Willows thing a while back (can’t believe you somehow forget that). You also had me totally wrong. I think you are a little quick to (mis) assess sometimes, based on a comment that you don’t agree with. Anyway, nevermind. I don’t want to argue with someone that I pretty much agree with.

        • @ValleyForge I did a search on this site for willows & oaks and found the comment I made (forgive me if I don’t remember an off-handed comparison I made in January)

          The point then was exactly the same as it is today, hasn’t changed.

          My position is completely consistent and I feel I go to a lot of trouble, being excessively verbose at times & sometimes creating too many posts, in order to convey the full message as I do desire to be Clear.

          That you misread, misunderstand and/or misconstrue what I say to fit the point you believe I am making is really not my fault. Sorry. Truly. I hope we can read from the same hymn book from here forward.

  26. The Elusive Wapati has already posted a response to the referenced article on ROK, it is also very good:

    “Clearly, few are happy with the present system, except perhaps the criminal class which happily exploits the widening gulf between police and the citizenry to its advantage. With that in mind, the remainder of this post will explore some proposals intended to restore some of the lost liberties of the American people, narrow the gap between the interests of the LEO with the citizen, and maybe do away with some of that contempt for police that Anonymous Cop complains about.”

    Considering Open Contempt for the Police
    http://www.returnofkings.com/41862/considering-contempt-for-the-police

  27. Just want to think Robert for linking something on ROK – I love both blogs & both are on my regular reading rounds.

    Hopefully considering your last several relationships (sorry) you’re absorbing some of the info & will be more successful the next time! Don’t forget to read Roissy (Chateau Heartiste)’s 16 commandments of how to make women love you & want you — http://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

    (ps it works for married men w/ their wives, too! ask me how I know.)

    • +1

      I find the general range of comments on ROK and TTAG to be quite similar. Within their respective topics the discourse varies from juvenile/inflammatory to thoughtful/profound. I rarely do more than skim the comments on either site. Both sites are primarily revenue generators for their owners. That’s not a negative criticism just an observation that tempers my philosophical investment in what I read on either blog.

      Just as TTAG is not the place to investigate the fundamentals of gun rights ROK is not the place to begin one’s journey into red pill truth. Reading ROK without first reading the archives of…

      Rollo Thomassi… http://therationalmale.com/

      Chateau Heartiste… https://heartiste.wordpress.com/

      Janet Bloomfield… http://judgybitch.com/

      …is a bit like reading TTAG without having read Locke, Jefferson or Paine.

      • There are more and more of us Red-Pillers here on TTAG all the time, great to make your acquaintance!

        The “problem” w/ many of the men on TTAG understanding the basis of Red Pill Wisdom is that most of them personify the qualities of Red Pill men without even knowing it. Ergo: They don’t see the use of sites that communicate what to them should be a basic understanding all men should have. Plus, of course they haven’t had to deal with the shrill, evil, corrupt, entitled women who subscribe to Feminism as they don’t tolerate it from their women as an inherent part of living the Red Pill lifestyle.

        I like to compare it to horse trainers (aka riding instructors): The really good ones have such a good “feel” for riding and the movement of the horse in concert with their own, they are almost completely incapable of describing what it is they do physically in order to teach those skills to others. They simply don’t understand that everyone doesn’t grok riding the same way that they do and that others need the process broken down for them into digestible bites.

        • Quite insightful, Mina. Owning my own businesses, I’ve been able to refuse to associate with feminists in the work place. Having only one pseudo-feminist sister-in-law to deal with over the last few decades, as well as being married to the same anti-feminist wife for 37 years, I’ve only had to deal with the occasional super bitch from time to time, and believe me, the acquaintance was short lived. The issue I see with the ROK site is the comments by men who have many more social issues than the feminists/bitches they hate. Bad choices in spouses only leads to disaster, and to continue making bad choices leading to multiple divorces is cause to begin looking at the man as being the source of the problem. My brother-in-law has been married four times, and he swears it was always the woman’s fault for the marriage falling apart. Knowing him for the last three decades, I can vouch that he was the problem in every failed marriage. When irresponsible men (or women) sooth their egos by associating with others with similar failures in life they learn nothing. They are the blind leading the blind and all of them have fallen neck-deep in the same ditch and refuse to admit it.

      • @Brum: forgive me for being obvious but marriages fail because men fail to lead their women effectively.

        Paint that how you like it but that’s what it biols down to no matter how you slice it & dice it.

        Which basically means that your comment supports my position completely. It also illustrates the value of sites like ROK in teaching men why & how women need leadership.

        Call it misogyny if you like. I prefer to call it “reality”

  28. Interesting article, Robert. Thanks for posting it. I thought the article was thoughtfully written, one of those “what the hell am I doing here” epiphanies that people doing hard, skilled jobs sometimes have. But, it was also written from the behind-the-blue-wall-you’ll-never-understand perspective that is an ingrained part of police culture. But let’s forgive him that: the guy’s speaking about as truthfully as he can. What’s happening is that this officer and other LEO’s (those that pay attention, anyway) find themselves under a kind of close observation that they’ve previously been able to avoid, There is, indeed, an acerbic national dialogue going on about police work and police culture that is focusing on the very excesses that good cops I’ve known and worked with have never liked but have nonetheless tacitly accepted as just part of the job. But while in previous years, police culture had evolved strategies for explaining away or hiding outrageous misconduct, the glare of public attention from Youtube videos and sites like TTAG are exerting some uncomfortable changes on police work. The usual glosses like “officer safety” or “following procedure” don’t work well when we’re looking at videos of no-knock home invasions, pets being shot, flash-bangs thrown into baby cribs, bystanders being screamed at, and other all to visible narratives of police behaving badly. This is something that’s never happened before and it’s placing enormous pressure on police forces and individual LEO’s around the country. I’m betting the good cops win.

  29. The anonymous cop isn’t actually wrong on events, so much as he is on timing. The special interest demographics are already waging war on America. They do it through the courts and the ballot box, aided and abetted by guilty white liberals and exploitative politicians.

    They’ve conspired to turn civil rights for all into special rights for some, backed not by their own men with guns, but by agents of the state. Whether it’s the vast hordes on individual welfare or the slithering swaths on corporate welfare, the fact is that the majority of this country takes, not makes, its living through manipulation of the levers of government to effect transfer payments from the productive class to themselves.

    As Margaret Thatcher famously said, the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money. Well. We’ve already well into that stage. Now we’re fast approaching the point where we run out of other people’s credit limits. When we hit that wall, and we will, when the federal trough dries up, the rioting in the streets will be unlike anything you’ve seen.

    The austerity measures imposed by reality will slam millions of desperate, dependent people hard. It’ll be worse than Greece. Think you’re immune because you’ve saved up and prepared? Think again. What savings of yours isn’t snatched at the outset (think Cyprus), will be inflated into worthlessness (think Weimar.)

    The revolution is already well underway and we’re losing. There’s still time for a counter offensive through lawful means at the polls, which I encourage everyone to participate in.

  30. The anonymous cop isn’t actually wrong on events, so much as he is on timing. The special interest demographics are already waging war on America. They do it through the courts and the ballot box, aided and abetted by guilty white liberals and exploitative politicians.

    They’ve conspired to turn civil rights for all into special rights for some, backed not by their own men with guns, but by agents of the state. Whether it’s the vast hordes on individual welfare or the slithering swaths on corporate welfare, the fact is that the majority of this country takes, not makes, its living through manipulation of the levers of government to effect transfer payments from the productive class to themselves.

    As Margaret Thatcher famously said, the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money. Well. We’ve already well into that stage. Now we’re fast approaching the point where we run out of other people’s credit limits. When we hit that wall, and we will, when the federal trough dries up, the rioting in the streets will be unlike anything you’ve seen.

    The austerity measures imposed by reality will slam millions of desperate, dependent people hard. It’ll be worse than Greece. Think you’re immune because you’ve saved up and prepared? Think again. What savings of yours isn’t snatched at the outset (think Cyprus), will be inflated into worthlessness (think Weimar.)

    The revolution is already well underway and we’re losing. There’s still time for a counter offensive, however, through lawful means at the polls, which I encourage everyone to participate in.

  31. It doesn’t matter what they have… it only matters how they use it. The mentality of current law enforcement is the real issue. They need to remember they work for the people!

    • It doesn’t matter what they have… it only matters how they use it. The mentality of current law enforcement is the real issue.

      This. In my old hometown, they did a SWAT raid on a young woman reported to be selling dimes of marijuana. When I asked why they used a Tri-County SWAT team for this, I was told that their chief of police had been fired, the officers had no confidence in their acting chief, they had had a rash of bad incidents and bad publicity, and they needed a “win” to boost morale. I think they found less than an ounce of marijuana.

      Yeah, send in commandos for a girl with a dozen or so grams of MJ to make yourselves feel better. This is the unnecessary militarization and misuse of our police forces.

      When I lived there, anything less than a quarter pound was personal stash. And get off my lawn!

      • Anything under 50 lbs should be misdemeanor with max $500 fine. And no, I have never used it even once. I’m just tired of paying for a war lost 30 years ago.

        • There shouldn’t be any fine at all. It’s really none of government’s business. The “War on Drugs” was an illegal and immoral power grab by the State. Instead of negotiating with the thieves, repel them.

    • Wrong. With police, we’re talking about people who are legally, culturally, institutionally, and financially heavily insulated from the consequences of their actions. That introduces moral hazard, which, by removing or at least minimizing and delaying the costs of engaging in risky, questionable, or even outright illegal activities, tends to provide an incentive to engage in them.

      It’s why so-called “too big to fail banks” make ridiculously risky investments. They know that when the house of cards collapses, the taxpayers as a whole will foot the bill. Before that eventuality, though, they get to enjoy all of the profits from said risky investments. It’s also why millions of people build houses in flood plains. They, too, know that for a pittance of a premium, they can be made whole through federal flood insurance subsidized by taxpayers as a whole. Before the inevitable flooding, though, they get to enjoy living comfortably and less expensively near the water.

      We already position the police in society at a level far above regular citizens. These weapons of war are playthings for the police. They yearn every day for an excuse to fire them up. In that environment of open-ended incentives and operational exuberance, supply creates its own demand. Give the police the up armored tools of the military and they’ll use them against the population every slender chance they get.

      But hey, prove me wrong. We’ve seen how many times just in the last year and half or so where massive firepower has been deployed? We’ve seen how many times in the last couple of decades where no-knock warrants and civil forfeiture have been unconscionably abused? History, and even the present, show that they’ll use whatever expedient and cool tools they have at their disposal. Let’s not delude ourselves into giving them more.

  32. We all heard a lot of Doomsday talk during the Cold War. We’re all gonna die! Thermonuclear war is going to start a nuclear winter! Billions dead! The apes will learn to talk and take over the world! You maniacs! You blew it all up!

    It didn’t happen, but it sure did enhance the power and wealth of a lot of of people who wanted us to think that it would.

    When the Soviet Union fell, a new demon was needed to keep the fear — and the money — coming. But there’s only one thing to fear, and the Founders knew exactly what it was, and is. That’s why we have the Second Amendment.

    I recognize that readers who were born after 1991 or who were “educated” in public schools don’t know what I’m talking about. That’s no accident. The government wants you to be ignorant.

    • I agree. Also – don’t forget, with zero police accountability, psychopaths are naturally drawn to the position of “police officer.” Aggressive bullies, psychopaths, and people requiring physical aggression as a psychological release love the position of “police officer” and naturally are drawn to that position where they can perform acts such as surround people who simply disagreed with them and point their body cams upright as they drive their knees into the palms of those they attack all the while shouting, “Put your hands behind your back! Stop resisting!” – beating them the whole time.

      In my opinion, most good cops have already quit – especially in big cities.

      • You’ve identified the crux of the problem. Police departments expend a lot of time and resources trying to filter out the loose cannons and borderline crazies who show up wanting to be cops. But psychological testing and interviewing can only do so much because it’s ultimately the mid-level department bureaucracy that will decide who can and can’t be a cop. Since that bureaucracy is also part of a larger municipal organization, its managers are as susceptible to corruption and political influence as the zoning department. And when that’s going on it’s easy for the shrink’s recommendations to be set aside in the interest of “other mitigating” factors, like affirmative-action requirements and outright cronyism.

  33. LarryinTX.

    The German people were a very decent group before Hitler got in power and they were decent afterwards. They were told to shoot and they did.

    Our guys will be the same. Hell, look up fire bombing of Japanese cities in WW II. Look up what we did to German citizens (too many women and children), nobody knows how many people in Viet Nam we killed but most figure it was about 1 million. A few years ago I bought a winter coat from where? Viet Nam.

    Something tells me just because the USA bombed you does not make you a BG. Our military will follow orders, hope you don’t bet your life on them not following orders.

    Just sayin’

    • The German people willingly started two world wars, and participated in the cold blooded murder of millions of civilians. What planet are you living on?!!!!

      Japan attacked us, and Germany declared war on us a few days later. As for the firebombing of Dresden, we were at war with them! What were we to do, offer them tea?

      • Germany was actually sort of late to the party in WWI. WWII was a different story. Germany in WWI was actually no worse or better than anyone else. The Kaiser was a diplomatic idiot, but so was everybody else.

      • and participated in the cold blooded murder of millions of civilians. Gee, Russia probably killed about as many civilians in WWII as Germany. British area fire bombing anyone? American area fire bombing anyone? Just remember the Luftwaffe was actually a tactical air force, not a strategic one. War usually is not a saintly enterprise, in fact war is hell.

      • As for the firebombing of Dresden, we were at war with them! My ancestral family was from Dresden, which was more of a white collar cultural center of Germany prior to WWII. Dresden was packed with refugees and had no real military value. The Americans tried to supplement the British bombing, but they lost their way and bombed Prague Czechoslovakia by mistake

    • The German people were a very decent group before Hitler got in power and they were decent afterwards. They were told to shoot and they did. Being of heavy German descent, I can say that millions of the German malcontents who were not enamored with the Prussian military machine and the Fuhrer Prinzip tended to go to the USA in the 19th century. Many of the remaining Germans were somewhat satisfied to follow the march towards big government and statism. The main competition for power in the interwar years was really between the Socialists, the Communists, the Nazis, and little else. All the parties worshipped and exalted the state over the individual. America is really looking like Germany in the early 1930s, in respect to both the Republicans and Democrats worship at the altar of big government over the individual.

    • The Germans were told to shoot previously disarmed people, and they did. If American troops/police are told to shoot previously disarmed civilians sometime in the future, all bets are off, they just might. But they will certainly NOT start a war with 100 million enemy combatants, one behind every blade of grass, to include the grass in the back yard of the home where their children live. Don’t be silly, this is comparing apples and swordfish.

      Just don’t give away any more gun rights. I think we’re currently on the correct trajectory, and more police departments suffering financial cutbacks and responding by telling citizens to gun up and prepare to defend themselves, as has happened recently, is just ducky!. Just determine for yourself that when ANYONE comes for your guns, they get the bullets first.

      • Larry, I recently questioned a long-time friend of mine as to why he was retiring early, with a large cut in pay, from his job as a police officer (state level). He says he “has seen the hand writing on the wall”, and that he “believes wide spread anarchy is coming”, and he “didn’t want to be caught on the wrong “team” when it all came down”. He’s going home, setting up a small farm and a woodworking shop, and preparing to protect his own family instead of protecting the families of strangers. I understand his reasoning and I agree with him.

      • We only have a generation or so for the restoration of individual Liberty. Government spans many generations. All government has to do is back off and continue brainwashing our youth and general public in order to usurp the Constitution more and more. Government, any government, naturally absorbs as much power as it can. There is a complex dance of human nature underlying governments that makes it so. When the enemy is on the run, it’s not wise to recall the charge and allow them time to regroup, resupply, and gather for a future attack. Drive tyranny into the sea or expect its inevitable counter attack. What we’re seeing isn’t an unconditional surrender of statism. What we’re seeing is a tactical retreat. Win the war now or accept that our grandchildren and great grandchildren will have to fight the same enemy; a much stronger and better equipped enemy.

      • It has been a while since I’ve read posts at such a place, but, I suggest that you take a look at some of the opinions expressed by officers at places like Officer.com (if you haven’t already). IMHO, many non-officers might talk a good game right now but will fold like a cheap tent in strong wind. True patriots will be fighting both the State and vast numbers of statists at the same time. I believe that Liberty loving people in our nation will have an very rough fight on their hands and they will be relatively few in number.

  34. Robert, You may want to be careful with these sources. According to the about page on the return of kings website one the hosts core beliefs is :

    2. Women are sluts if they sleep around, but men are not. This fact is due to the biological differences between men and women.

    Please show me in the Bible where sleeping around is ok for anyone?

    To Wit:

    6. A woman’s value is mainly determined by her fertility and beauty. A man’s value is mainly determined by his resources, intellect, and character.

    Any way you cut it this douche is a misogynist. You will only estrange all of us who know these beliefs to be false. Our unity is over firearms, not over some sexist horsemanure.

    • Some of those beliefs are legitimate sociological points open to debate. Others may be more of just opinions, which aren’t even classifiable as true/false or right/wrong. Beyond that, the post is written by “anonymous cop.” That could be anyone and not necessarily the site owner, nor even someone who agrees with the site owner’s core beliefs any more than everyone who posts here automatically agrees with all of RF or TTAG’s core beliefs.

      It’s detached and immaterial, anyway, because the writing is its own, stand alone piece. It makes its own argument and should be discussed, debated and judged upon its own merits; not dismissed based on superficial association with someone else. I doubt you’ll find anyone in this world whose entire catalog of ideas and personal beliefs you could accept as a whole without any grimace or offense taken at some of them, no matter how brilliant or insightful the best of them might be. I’m not saying this work is brilliant, but I am saying that whatever it is, you’re judging it by the wrong standard.

      • It’s all well and good to not poison the well, but would you be willing to quote from, say, The Final Call just because an ironically non-attributed appeal to authority supported some position you held? I hope not.

    • Thank you, I’m having a similar conversation with a woman on here due to that atheistic anti-social ROK post.. You’ve reminded me to get back to the essence of this web site, guns. Regards, Brum

  35. It’s worth remembering jury nullification. Refuse to convict on your own moral grounds. Your obligation as a juror is not to rubber stamp what a judge or DA wants. You cannot be punished for standing your ground. This is the true genius of the US jury system. Visit FIJI.org if you have time.

    A revolution? I’d happily shoot looters. What we need is regulation of the bankers and to fold the “Federal” Reserve back into the Treasury Department. IMHO. A private central bank that loans “debt notes” to the Treasury Department? That’s a massive scam and it’s inflated our currency to the point where we can’t mint a penny out of copper any longer. Can you say “canary in a coal mine”?

    • I’m thinkin’, if push came to shove, I’d have to go along with that. In an anarchy, you have to take care of yourself against evil people, a few at a time, perhaps. In a police state, they’re coming for you with tanks.

  36. Their armies will be massive and violent because the immune system designed to control them will have withered away after years of your deconstruction and condemnation. Yeah right! The police are getting stronger, getting more military equipment, more immune from scrutiny and legal approach, given more no knock warrants, more stop and frisk searches as the TSA, and given more blank checks. Withering away? Yeah, sort of like the Marxist Manifesto utopia where the dictatorship of the proletariat will wither away.

  37. I want to know where are these good cops being run off by being held accountable for their actions.
    Don’t sound like they were good cops from the beginning.

    • Depends on your definition of “being accountable for their actions”. Right now we’re seeing a local cop put in a terrifying situation having to hide from his city on threat of death without even a hearing, much less a trial. If that’s the best “accountable” can do, I’d sure be leaving. Wear a damn camera. THAT is having to be accountable for your actions, lying just went out the window, if you’ve really been doing the things the whole country seems to claim every cop does, you’d better quit the force now, because you will be going to prison. Good cops, OTOH, can send perjurers like this witness in the Brown shooting, up the river for a little vacation, smile all the way home.

  38. The revolution will not be started by any conservative special interest group against the liberal establishment. It will be started by “takers” who are angry that they are not getting enough “free stuff” or angry that the government is taking away something that they used to get for free. It will start with a riot in a large city, then there will be riots in several other major cities the following night. The press will fan the flames of ‘racial’ unrest (with the help of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, ex-president Barrack Obama, and the Black Panthers); and the rioting will spread to every large city in the whole country.

    Imagine the “Occupy” movement, but with rioting instead of peaceful trespassing.

  39. What I find interesting is the people that were cool with the people at the Bundy ranch being slaughtered by the feds are now starting to squawk about police militarization. They ask why isn’t the militia running to MO to confront the out of control police? According to statists it’s because they are racist cowards. I have a mark on my forehead from all of the face palming i’ve been doing.

  40. I read this article and the ensuing commentary and had a flashback or else entered the Twilight Zone. Ferguson was not Detroit or Watts where they had real tanks in the street. You know, the things with a BFG sticking out the front end.

  41. The author seems to forget that for most of the history of civilization, most places had no police, or at least no professional police. Somehow civilization got along without them.

    Everybody profession or occupation wants to believe they are the linchpins or the saviors of civilization. It isn’t just cops who entertain this fantasy, it’s politicians, business executives, bankers, soldiers, scientists, farmers, teachers, and stay-at-home moms. They’re all correct in that they have important jobs to do, and they’re all wrong in thinking they’re special for it.

    • Each person you listed is special in their own field, and without them society will collapse, well, we’ll do fine without the bankers. Out of your list, it will be the farmers who survive, and it will be farmers who save many lives. If you doubt that, just consider the outcome one year from today, if tomorrow, all farmers plowed up their fields and crops and refused to grow any crops or raise any more animals. By the way, what is your viable asset offered to society, now as well as post collapse ? I’m just curious.

      • farmers aren’t inherently special than a businessman or anyone else who provides a service.
        They need customers just like any other business and if they dont get that they won’t be farming massively.

        • Until the end of time, there will be a need for food and grave diggers. The farmer’s work will delay the need for the services of the latter. Farmers do not need to farm “massively” to be successful and to be of service to the population. It is the massive corporate farmers who are in need of massive sales to scratch their greedy itch. The coming collapse will disrupt the “just-in-time” food supply, and then the starving masses will either go to live with a farmer friend or family member, into the FEMA camps, or they will become predatory and steal the food they need to survive. Name me one other service-provider who can survive without food. We have fought agaisnt the curse laid upon us since the Garden of Eden, if we are to survive what is coming we will need to become self sufficient and not dependent on businessmen, bankers, politicians, or any other middleman. “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.” Genesis 3:17-19 The cleansing is coming.

        • Farmers need fertilizer, farmers need metal work, horses, farmers need shelter, farmers wear clothes,
          No one lives on a island, with no home, no clothes, no tools, farmers are just as helpless as anyone else.
          Fact is we need and benefit from each other, we all are beneficial to each other if we work in non coerced professions.

        • Farmers can and do grow their own fertilizer through crop rotation systems and by supplementing with the addition of other organics. The “modern” but destructive use of chemical fertilizers, as used in corporate farming, began in the mid 1800s. Before then all fertilization was natural. Farmers can and do raise their own livestock including draft horses. Our ancestors made their own clothes (remember the spinning wheels), and many farmers were and still are blacksmiths. Farmers can and still do build their own houses and barns (my Amish neighbors). Out of all the professions you mentioned, a farmer will survive and not need to be dependent on the others. Every aspect of a farmer’s life can be made by hand and those items not made on sight can be bartered for with crops and meat grown on the farm. Let the bankers eat their paper money, let the fertilizer company eat their nitrogen, and the iron foundry workers eat their metal bars as food. Let the business man attempt to cheat others out of their dry-goods and eat it. Bartering will be in effect. Food will be more valuable than gold, but even with that, you can’t eat gold either.

        • @ LarryinTX: Way to go Larry. Such an exhaustive remark. Got any more like that? Or should we just consider that to be the extent of your vocabulary? What part of my remarks do you disagree with… based upon actual facts, of course?

        • +1 Brum. The only thing that is going to keep the farmer from being the hingepin after a financial collapse is the acquisition of land.

          Unfortunately, along with the militarization of the police, small farmers are being attacked by SWAT officers(literally, not just verbally) for growing food without using chemical fertilizers or GMO seeds, or even for selling milk that comes straight from a cow. A simple google search will uncover the practice of government persecution toward self-sustaining families. In many cases, it seems, the government is taking away the property or rezoning it so farming (or even gardening) will be illegal on the land. No such oppression is directed toward big farming corporations, such as Tanimura & Antle. Large corporations like T&A are the subjects of OSHA, the FDA and the EPA. Other organizations like the BLM take care of land that is not being used by farmers, making it off limits. Hence, smaller farming outfits are increasingly not tolerated, and increasingly disallowed to start up as well.

          SO, even farming is threatened. It would appear to me that an objective of domestic government is to control the land, no matter the costs, and to do that they will even take land and/or land rights away, by force. It also seems to me that militarization of police is a necessity to achieve that control.

        • hey, Toby. As a land owner in two nations, I have a good comparison of the strong arm tactics by the USGOV. I’m familiar with the plight of farmers under assault by the EPA, ATF, and FDA. Control the food, and they control the people. Control of the food supply chain beyond the farmer will be easy, seeing as how most of the American population is dependent on Walmart and other grocers to bring it to their neighborhood. I’ve already dealt with issues over questionable “catch water basins” (80 year-old spring fed ponds) at the hands of some real dolts sitting behind desks. I had cleared the top edge of the ponds of weeds and brush with a box scraper not long after purchasing the farm, so seeing the fresh layer of soil, the nitwits thought they were looking at freshly dug ponds done “without a permit”. God forbid. LOL I have planted food forests spread out over my acres that pretty much blend into the surrounding inedible vegetation. What to me is obviously food, to the pencil pushers in government is just a weed, sticker briar, or another unnamed inedible tree. Subterfuge by not calling anything organic or unpasteurized works to a degree. We have seven family members on our place, we grow enough for us and a few others. We will put up a fight if our hard earned food grown on our own land is bothered by the gov. in order to give it to the dependent ones in DC, NYC, Detroit, etc after the collapse. By that time the government will be way too busy putting out literal fires in the cities to bother with us. Hopefully.

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