BREAKING: 7 Arrested, 1 Shot During Ferguson, MO Curfew

Ferguson, MO residents protecting their property through force of arms (courtesy usatoday.com)

” Seven people were arrested and one person shot early Sunday in Ferguson, Mo.,” usatoday.com reports, “as police and protesters clashed again in a haze of tear gas despite a curfew that took effect at midnight.” Wait. Tear gas? Didn’t Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson promise “we won’t enforce [the curfew] with trucks, we won’t enforce it with tear gas“? As for those “trucks” (a.k.a., armored personnel carriers) . . . “A team of officers from the Missouri State Highway Patrol, St. Louis city and county police moved armored vehicles down the street of the St. Louis suburb just after the midnight curfew Sunday,” bostonglobe.com reports. “It turned out the timing was coincidental, said patrol Capt. Ron Johnson.” How’s this for coincidence . . .

Ferguson, MO (courtesy bbc.co.uk)

Police received a report that people broke into Red’s Barbecue and some were on the roof — creating a potential danger for officers trying to disperse the protesters. Police were responding to that report — not the fact that protesters were still on the street after curfew, Johnson said.

Regardless, you might say the Ferguson curfew was a failure in conception and execution. To wit:

As the curfew deadline arrived Sunday, remaining protesters — chanting ‘‘No justice! No curfew!’’ — refused to leave the area. And as five armored tactical vehicles approached the crowd, officers spoke through a loudspeaker: ‘‘You are in violation of a state-imposed curfew. You must disperse immediately. Failure to comply, may result in arrest.’’

Curfew breakers, Ferguson, MO (courtesy bostonglobe.com)

As officers put on gas masks, a chant from the distant crowd emerged: ‘‘We have the right to assemble peacefully.’’ A moment later, police began firing canisters into the crowd of protesters.

"Protestors" ignore Ferguson, MO curfew (courtesy bostonglobe.com)

Highway Patrol Spokesman Lt. John Hotz initially said police only used smoke, but later told The Associated Press that they also fired tear gas canisters . . . Johnson said one tear gas canister was deployed Friday night after the group of rioters became unruly and several officers got trapped and injured.

Hmmm. Little disconnect there. Anyway, “Johnson said one person was shot overnight and is in critical condition,” usatoday.com reveals, “but he couldn’t confirm whether the shooting victim was a protester. The shooting happened on West Florissant Avenue, one of the main thoroughfares in Ferguson and the scene of protests for the last week.”

So . . . maybe? But we know that it wasn’t someone shot by a home or business owner protecting their property against looting. (A story that has got nearly zero play in the mainstream media.) It seems there are guns on the “other side” of the equation, too. The Globe offered this tidbit:

Jayson Ross, who was leading the protesters toward police before the canisters were fired, said: ‘‘They got guns. We got guns. We are ready.’’

Bluster? Who knows? While I don’t see militia members racing to Ferguson to support the “protestors” against government agents (a la the Bundy Ranch), the vibe coming out of the conflict is a lot different than the race riots that swept the nation in the 70s. To quote Warren Zevon, it ain’t that pretty at all. How’s this image grab you?

"A police officer confronts a demonstrator during ongoing protests in Ferguson, Mo., over the shooting death of Michael Brown.?" (text Boston Globe, image Scott Olson, Getty Images)

comments

  1. avatar Bobby C King says:

    Wake up Americans. Its time to stop playing politics. Our Nations Police think they have unlimited rights. The are trained as if we are a Police State. We are America. The land of the Free, the Home of the Brave!

    We have a right to assemble in protest. We have a right to demand that the power of the Government be limited! This is America only if we exercise our rights. The Police and their mentality caused every bit of what we see happening!

    I am not a Democrat. I am not a Republican. I am an American and I demand that the powers of Government be limited and those who hold public office keep the oath that they took to protect ALL of my rights.

    If we don’t exercise our rights, we lose them. Is it time for more Americans to rush to those who are exercising their rights in the State of Missouri?

    A politician looks to the next election. A Statesman looks to the next Generation. All of those in MO. who are standing in protest are in my mind, “Statesmen”. Stand strong!

    1. avatar Joe2 says:

      Yeah!!!! And they have the right to loot and destroy other people’s property !!!!! Yeah!!!! …

      …. Hey!…. Wait a minute…..

      1. avatar Robert Farago says:

        The two goals – “allowing” peaceful assembly and protecting the peace – are not mutually incompatible.

        The curfew was a stupid idea: it created an inevitable clash. At the same time, it’s Ferguson’s business owners who protected their lives and property (with guns, obvs.), not the cops. In fact, the police stood by and watched looters loot yesterday and the day before.

        1. avatar AlleyF says:

          +1 to Mr. Farago

          Watching this as a case study. But yes, setting arbitrary limits on protesters just gives them something to fight against, which is what they want; a target for their anger, some way of saying ‘We’re not going to take this anymore’

          I still can’t comprehend what clustercuss has cas caused the popo to allow the looting, not respond to it. Can’t comprehend.

        2. avatar Shandower says:

          Something about never issuing and order you know won’t be obeyed (and you don’t dare enforce) comes to mind.

        3. avatar Mina says:

          @AlleyF : Police aren’t responding to the looting because of concern that taking action would “further inflame” the situation.

          My take is that looting/pillaging is a “better outlet” for the anger than attacking police, so they are allowing it.

        4. avatar Stinkeye says:

          Cracking down on protesters and allowing looting makes perfect sense if your long-term goal is increased government and police power. You don’t want the protesters’ complaints to be heard, and the looters provide a convenient bogeyman for the inevitable future calls for more (and even better armed) police. Plus, it’s a lot safer to push around people who are chanting and carrying signs than it is to confront the thugs and criminals who are looting.

        5. avatar NDS says:

          The curfew just re-enforces the obvious fact that Jay Nixon has no business being governer… Watching his press conference yesterday was so painful. If people are shouting down the Governer during a speech, on what planet are they going to obey a curfew??

          Every time he says “Missourah” I die a little inside, wonder if that’s his own bozo scheme or if some focus group worked on just the right amount of “twang”… People around here sound like that for ALL of the words they say or none, it’s sickening.

        6. avatar T-DOG says:

          There is a play book for this stuff. It’s a very interesting read if you like looking into human behavior.

          http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/atp3_39x33.pdf

          CONTAGION
          1-21. Emotional contagion is the most dramatic psychological factor of crowd dynamics. It provides the
          crowd with a temporary bond of psychological unity. Lasting long enough, this unity can push a simple
          organized crowd into a mob. Normal law and authority are rejected by the crowd as a whole under these
          conditions, increasing the potential for violence and panic to erupt.

        7. avatar DBM says:

          Yeah Its more commonly known as the mob mentality. Take a group of average people “individuals” who in normal circumstanses would never commit a violent act and put them in a group with the right stimuli and they turn into a violent mob cabale of doing many bad things.

        8. avatar Bobby C King says:

          Oh, that explains the conduct of the Police Officer that got all this started.

          Time to send a message. LIMITED GOVERNMENT. Make an example out of the officer who fired the first shots causing this all!

        9. avatar DBM says:

          Bobby, Have you thought that the cop may have been justified in shooting this guy? In the past few years there has been a huge increase in reported police killing innocent people but lets wait to see if this one was justified. I’m with you on limited gov’t. Clintons expansion of the gov’t and BO’s use of the HS, IRS and EWPA to supress people and business is killing this country and filling it with people like in Fergusen.

        10. avatar Bobby C King says:

          Absolutely I have though of the question of if the officer was justified?

          The problem is that the way Law Enforcement is being trained today along with the immunity laws that protect them have overreached the scope of Limited Government.

          One person on the forum commented that I was upset about a meter maid giving me a ticket. Being involved in Politics for over 3 decades and watching the erosion of the moral fiber of our Government officials goes far beyond a meter maid writing a ticket. How the training of officers exists today smacks of Police State tactics.

          The question you raise; Was the officer justified? Under the existing law, he in all likely hood will argue that he had every right to do what he did and was trained to do so. That does not make his conduct morally correct. It does not make the training that officers are getting today proper.

          Now let me share something with you. Political discrimination is real. Because I stand for equal protection and prosecution of all under the rule of law, I have had thefts happen, crimes against me. Just in the past few weeks, I was served with a warrant. When I have sought warrants against persons who have admitted taking my property, the District Attorney is on record saying that the offense was a civil matter and refused to prosecute. Again a felony theft was considered a civil matter and the DA refused to prosecute. Now, I was served a warrant for going onto private property, charged with criminal trespass. The property was not posted. The DA allowed a warrant to issue, then recused himself and his office. Wow! A felony theft that was admitted to goes unprosecuted while a frivolous misdemeanor charge of criminal trespass on property not even posted gets a warrant. Now that is a decay of the moral fiber and an abuse of power.

          Look what the Gov. of Texas has been charged with within the past weeks? Misuse of the power of his office. Are both issues not the same and is the conduct of my local DA not selective enforcement and political discrimination.

          But remember, TN was just ranked as the third most corrupt State in the Nation. And I live in the richest county in TN per capita. Making the County I live in arguably the most corrupt County in the Nation. Even Attorneys who come into the County where I live will say that its like trying to practice law in Alice in Wonderland.

          If it can happen to me, you can be next. If it can happen to you, I may be next. If the young man that got shot in MO can be killed and the Law Enforcement official be justified under existing law mainly due to immunity and the training that law enforcement receives, that could be your child or grandchild next! Better think before you back up the decay of moral fiber that prevails in the training of Law Enforcement today or you may find yourself falling upon your own sword.

      2. avatar Steve says:

        Don’t classify the majority, the protesting individuals that have the rights to do so, based on the criminal actions of a few.

    2. avatar Tominator says:

      I live close to Ferguson and know several folks that live there. Most all are on the law enforcement side of this.

      The first night should have set the stage! IMHO the local PD and St. Louis County Police had this well in hand.

      Saturday night the police had to stop the protesters from going onto the interstate. That’s when the tear gas and riot gear came out.

      IMHO the curfew should be dusk to dawn and only the people that have a legal address there allowed to come and go as well as business owners. 99% of the problems are from people that do not live there!

      1. avatar Steve says:

        Agreed about out of towner’s but how can one put a timer on the right to assembly and protest?

        1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          Or to run to the grocery store to buy milk. Or grab a movie. Or simply take a walk down the street on a summer evening?

          Maybe some of these activities are curtailed due to threat of violence from “looters” and “rioters,” but that should be MY choice.

          Never have liked the concept of “curfews” imposed by the government.

        2. avatar John in Ohio says:

          @JR_in_NC: It’s because we’re all children in need of a nanny in the eyes of government. Apparently, statist America agrees. 🙁

          Government believes it has authority to ground the People and send them to their room.

        3. avatar John in Ohio says:

          That’s a really good piece. Thanks for the link.

      2. avatar John in Ohio says:

        only the people that have a legal address there allowed to come and go

        How can that be determined without “stop and ID”? What happened to freedom of travel? Let the People arm themselves and be responsible for their own safety.

        1. avatar Bobby C King says:

          Your right John. If the people can not see what is REALLY happening they are just wearing blinders. This has all been escalated by a POLICE STATE mentality.

          America, where Governments power was designed to be LIMITED.

          I have lived injustice first hand. Time has passed to put the MAN in his place. Arbitrary conduct without legislative actions must stop. Oaths must be kept. And its time that any person in public office who does not keep their oath be charged with TREASON!

          We the People have Rights! Stand and Demand that the Government conduct be restrained and limited as it should be. The whole problem is that the abuse of power is causing this to become a greater problem.

        2. avatar whatever says:

          Start with the ballot box, the soap box, then the jury box.

    3. avatar John in Ohio says:

      I agree. For me, this isn’t about the initial incident being justified or not. It is about government actions since. By allowing government to get by with such police state tactics, America is setting yet another precedent: we will allow government to oppress because we are not willing to fight for our own freedom. The Constitution is worthless if the People aren’t willing to enforce it.

    4. avatar int19h says:

      If you want to stop looting, put armed guards in the businesses in the affected area. Maybe one more on the streets. With orders to intervene only when they see an attempt to loot or vandalize right there and then.

      Not this curfew and tear gas bullshit.

  2. avatar SouthernPatriot says:

    For those who advocate that private citizens do not need guns to defend themselves and to telephone law enforcement every time there is a situation, the Ferguson drama is a true study case. When the owners of shops in a strip mall telephoned police and police arrived, the owners asked the police if they would provide protection to their businesses that night. The police said, “No. You are on your own!” That meant no police protection, no protection for their lives, limbs, or property…unless they provided such themselves. Some businessmen and women banded together and provided protection for their businesses and others, with their own weapons and their own health and lives at risk.

    It is too late to purchase and learn to use weapons when incidents like this happen. You better be prepared ahead of any such events to be ready for these events. The same thing happened after some tornadoes, hurricanes and so-called “natural” disasters. Thugs, thieves, and miscreants of all kinds came into damaged neighborhoods and tried to steal what they could. Armed homeowners were able to fend them off and protect their property. Wake up America! When situations, natural or un-natural, happen, will you be prepared?

    1. avatar whatever says:

      Well said. This is an object lesson for anyone with a functioning sense of self-preservation.

  3. avatar A-Rod says:

    Sniper rich environment? For both sides?

    1. avatar Jon says:

      So you’re saying the environment was rich with snipers??…I didn’t see any.

      1. avatar Nick D says:

        That’s the point Jon; a good sniper is the last thing you never see.

        1. avatar Jon says:

          I think they might have meant “target-rich”…. I doubt there are 20 snipers hiding out there.

  4. avatar The Brotherhood of Steel says:

    I love how CNN straight up removed their own comments section on their website (on every single article) because of the anti government sentiment. 1st Amendment is directly in the sights of the statists just like the 2nd. Surprised we haven’t seen an information black out yet.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Didn’t they try by arresting folks for videoing the first night or two?

      1. avatar Taylor TX says:

        Yea from what I read there were reports of media getting arrested at McDonalds and around town.

      2. avatar Tominator says:

        Shots were fired at a police helicopter and even at the scene of the killing there were shots fired even as investigators tried to do their job. The reporters had no idea they were in danger and were told to move in several instances. This had not a thing to do with them video taping the protests.

        The McDonalds incident had two out of town reporters basically ‘camped out’ at the McDonalds. After several hours management asked them to leave. The reporters became belligerent and the police did their job.

        1. avatar lizzrd says:

          But…but…that doesn’t fit with the bad, unconstitutional cops / nice innocent protesters exercising their right to assemble narrative…

        2. avatar Taylor TX says:

          Good to know, seems as if I need to read a little more about the incident. I hadnt heard much more on the details as far as the McDonalds thing goes, Ive worked as a manager before and would have done the same thing as objectively as possible.

          “Wait you guys are with CNN? GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!”

        3. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          “After several hours management asked them to leave. The reporters became belligerent and the police did their job.”

          Fair enough. That’s not how it was initially reported (and why I asked my above comment as a question).

          Is there confirmation of this version of that episode? No offense intended, but with two opposing versions of the same story, how do I know a comment posted by Tominator is more truthful than the initial reporting?

          (Not saying it isn’t…just that from where I sit I don’t know which is ‘correct’).

        4. avatar John in Ohio says:

          What about the news crew tear gassed on the street and cops taking down their equipment on video? What about repeated police commands for people to stop recording?

        5. avatar Tominator says:

          I drive a semi for UPS Freight all over the St. Louis area including Ferguson. Several other drivers live very close to where the protests are as well as having relatives or friends that actually live there. A guard at Chrysler in Hazelwood lives there. Two young women that work at a nursing home in Chesterfield work there. I’ve had conversations with these folks and more. I watch Fox2 every morning. KMOX radio has help turn this into the political circus it has become over ratings. 97.1 has had excellent coverage. National coverage has been terrible and IMHO has just fanned the flames.

          If you can weed out the racial implications and the blabber over ‘rights’ then one can get an idea of the situation. Rights are defined by the court system and not your loud objections….Every one of these ‘Rights’ are limited by law. You have the right to protest, but you do not have the right to force anyone to listen to you. You have the right to assemble. Once looting, violence and gun fire come into the mix, even though a minority, you lost the right of assembly. There is freedom of the press but the press has no ‘Right’ to put themselves in harms way and ignore orders from law enforcement.

        6. avatar John in Ohio says:

          Rights are defined by the court system

          Nope. That was and is a usurpation of power. Perhaps the state courts can, IDK, but not SCOTUS. The definitions have been FUBAR already and those definitions would have to be reset to “undefined” before any “defining” could be just.

          http://constitutionality.us/SupremeCourt.html

        7. avatar John in Ohio says:

          the press has no ‘Right’ to put themselves in harms way

          Oh, they most certainly do. We aren’t children. We are supposed to be a free people.

          and ignore orders from law enforcement.

          If those orders are invalid, they certainly can.

        8. avatar Jus Bill says:

          Once looting, violence and gun fire come into the mix, even though a minority, you lost the right of assembly.

          The looters did not belong to the minority of residents in Ferguson.

          If the majority of residents in Ferguson collectively stood up to the looters like they stood up to Al and Jesse when they tried to panhandle, there would immediately be NO MORE looting. They’re either cowering in fear, too apathetic to act, or support the looters.

        9. avatar whatever says:

          @Tominator

          This sounds suspiciously like a post-hoc justification . . . the kind that out-of-control law enforcement use all the time to justify abuse and civil suppression.

          I would not take this story at face value. The local law enforcement and politician’s handling of this situation has already strained their credibility.

        10. avatar John in Ohio says:

          @Jus Bill: Spot on.

  5. avatar Wood says:

    What a mess. The difference between cops and looters in Ferguson are badges and the color of law. That’s it. Both groups present a clear danger to the citizens.

    Ferguson powers that be better get this sorted quick, the situation could easily be the spark for nationwide unrest.

    1. avatar jdwoodguy says:

      I get the impression this whole thing is being orchestrated just for that, national unrest so that Obama can flex his new powers to use our own troops against citizens

      1. avatar DBM says:

        Really tempting to say MOO (Master of the Obvious) to that comment but I think this is much deeper than that. BO is a figure head.

    2. avatar Tominator says:

      That is an inaccurate statement to say the least! Quit looking at the national media and expecting accurate reporting. All the local stations have an online presence and discussions on local radio are almost 24hrs on no other subject.

      1. avatar whatever says:

        @Tominator

        Oh, you mean the local radio owned by national conglomerates? They’re not exactly famous for their diversity of views. Also, are you dialed into the local urban stations (if any). It would be interesting to hear the take from all angles.

        1. avatar Tominator says:

          OK, I have my issues with both channels….like being Conservative yet taking add money from lawyers….Glen Beck is on my no listen list and 97.1 is getting close. However , like politics, it is whose stench one can stand.

          I buffer what I hear with personal knowledge or just do not comment.

  6. avatar DBM says:

    Why has the cops resorted to using chemical weapons on these people? We can’t use them in combat so why are cops allowed to use them on US Citizens?

    1. avatar The Brotherhood of Steel says:

      Right? If one of those protesters shot a tear gas grenade into the police, they’d be charged with the use of “weapons of mass destruction”….

      1. avatar DBM says:

        They definitely would. Tear Gas is classified as a Chemical Weapon which has been called a weapon of mass distruction.

        1. avatar Skyler says:

          The United States has never agreed that tear gas is a prohibited weapon.

        2. avatar DBM says:

          No? Then its really funny how tear gas is considered a chemical weapon by the military, all containers are painted the sea foam green reserved for chemical weapons and the military is forbidden to use it in combat.

        3. avatar Jus Bill says:

          Uh, ALL military containers (except training rounds) are painted Sea Foam Green. It has a National Stock Number and is ordered by the tank car load. If you stand still too long on a military base you will be painted Sea Foam Green or Battleship Gray. Or polished.

        4. avatar DBM says:

          Well said by someone who has never been in the military or worked with ammo.

        5. avatar DBM says:

          Well said by someone who has never been in the army nor handles munitions.

        6. avatar The Brotherhood of Steel says:

          @ Jus Bill, Or find yourself doing pushups for some reason.

        7. avatar Jus Bill says:

          Or for no reason at all, Brother.

        8. avatar Hannibal says:

          Polished by whom?

    2. avatar Tori S says:

      It’s worse than just that.

      The troops overseas aren’t allowed to shoot until they’re fired upon, but our cops here are encouraged to fire whenever they personally feel justified or their power threatened in any way.

      Yes, American citizens are treated with less regard by the power structure than foreign terrorists or illegal immigrants.

      It makes a whole lot of sense, right?

      1. avatar John M. says:

        It only makes sense if you understand that the Left’s objective in foreign wars is not to win them.

        1. avatar Stinkeye says:

          Given our track record since 1945, it seems like the statists on the Right aren’t too interested in winning wars, either. Perpetual overseas conflict serves a valuable purpose to those who wish to see the power of government increased. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia…

        2. avatar Jus Bill says:

          You folks should know by now that since WW II wars have been fought to benefit corporations. And America officially joined WW II because the Japanese wanted oil, so there is that.

        3. avatar DBM says:

          Jus,
          It wasn’t just oil. We stopped selling them scrap metal which was their primary source of steel. The also needed every raw material imaginable. Ever been to Korea? The japs raped the country to a point it still has not recovered.

  7. avatar scooter says:

    We do not know if Michael Brown died in an act of hate, anger, fear, desperation, or confusion, or a mix. However, those truly trying take a stand and those stealing from their own community are NOT the same. As criminals will not follow gun laws, they will not follow curfews. A fine point was made on St. Louis radio. Some play checkers, some play chess. Looters jump the first thing in front of them. True change will only come from an organized effort with steps toward an outcome. Strategy is required. Start playing chess, Ferguson, unless you want those who do look down on you to use these actions as evidence to demean you.

  8. avatar tjlarson2k says:

    This is one heck of an example of how a militarized police used against US citizens is just unconstitutionally idiotic on so many levels.

    The police should’ve just taken up positions in front of any business’ in proximity of the protesters and announced they were only there to protect businesses and to prevent further crimes (looting) — and that’s it. Can’t be that hard if you have APCs?

    Anyone that is being violent should be arrested. Peaceful protest should be allowed. End of story.

    But then again, if your police force is staffed with people moronic enough to murder a person in cold blood, well I guess it stands to reason there would be several people in that department that aren’t exactly “police material”. I can’t tell if the Chief is just a moron, or if it’s the fault of poorly trained officers.

    Either way, it’s embarrassing and warrants a national look and reassessment of the PD, imo. This crap has been out of hand for years, and it looks like the American people draw the line at being murdered (yet again) by our own damn Police force.

    As we should.

    1. avatar tjlarson2k says:

      Oh and by the way, see the top picture with a bunch of guys with rifles standing around?

      This is when OC and being “at the ready” is OK. In a state of emergency. You know, in context. This is what the right to bear arms means. It’s not the right to parade around with your AR during peace time like a moron.

      But you do the above during peacetime without any signage or obvious visual messaging, you get what’s coming to you for being a panic-inducing attention grabber.

      Until they start being arrested for OC in Ferguson, then we have other problems.

      1. avatar ThomasR says:

        And again; tj; you talk like the fool. In one breath you talk about the right to peaceably assemble without being attacked by police and then in the second breath you talk about “getting what you deserve” by practicing a legal 1st and 2nd amendment right like OCing a long arm.

        But you’re like a lot of people; you want only the rights you agree with to be defended.

        You know, a hypocrite.

        1. avatar tjlarson2k says:

          Uh no. I’m stating the difference of OC in and out of context of a state of emergency.

          Your immature name-calling aside, I guess you missed the point.

          The OC crowd I was referring to (ie. OC Texas) were being stopped on the street for inciting panic, which is understandable as none of them had signage or indication they were protesting. They simply showed up to business’ carrying ARs. Legal? Yup. Did they have to show up “at the ready” and fingers near the trigger? Nope. Smart? No. Again, context. They could’ve just as easily showed up with the rifles slung behind their shoulders and could’ve gotten the message across about OC all the while ruffling minimal feathers. Which is my point — demonstrating how OC (when legal) is perfectly acceptable and not nearly as “alarming” during times of emergency. I don’t recall seeing articles of people protesting the OCers for being “scary” like they do during peacetime, do you?

          On the one hand it is legal to OC in some states, yes, but some people seem oblivious to the fact they may be causing the public discomfort or panic. Do you really need to be standing there in tacticool gear with your finger near the trigger when buying your coffee? Maybe so, but you can’t possibly be surprised in the police want to have a word, do you?

          That’s the problem with OCing irresponsibly during peacetime with no signage or any indication you’re protesting anything. People should have the common sense to be self-aware enough to OC without causing a panic. And this doesn’t mean excusing people with hoplophobia that attempt to get the police to bother people legally OCing either.

          And my case in point for this particular situation is, to my knowledge, no one is being detained for OCing in Ferguson, because they are doing so to defend life and property.

          You calling me a fool for your misunderstanding of the English language seems telling though. Carry on.

        2. avatar tjlarson2k says:

          @ ThomasR

          Oh and before you say “oh but it’s legal so doesn’t matter how you carry”, please take a moment and think beyond your little myopic viewpoint for a second. Yes, it’s about your individual rights and the 2nd Amendment. It’s also about public perception and people not wanting to crap themselves in public every time some plainsclothes person shows up where ever with an AR “at the ready”. I’m sure there’s a middle ground to be reached here. And that’s realizing the right to bear arms doesn’t necessarily mean you should carry it everywhere “at the ready” just because you can, because it’s disrespectful to others that have no idea who you are or what your deal is.

          Anyone in uniform is less likely to cause a panic when OCing because of the uniform. That’s the reason they wear them. To tell good guys from bad guys. The Civilian Militia doesn’t have a uniform. No one can tell if we’re good guys or bad guys. All we have is context. If there is a shooting around the corner that I didn’t see, and when I come around the corner and see one person down and another standing over them with a gun, who is the criminal or victim? I have no idea. The same goes for OCers.

          If I’m in a restaurant and some guy with an AR shows up at the front door I have no idea if that person is a peaceful protester or a potential murdering crazy person.

          That’s the dilemma you put in everyone’s head when you tool up with your finger near the trigger and go to public venues. It’s rude, and honestly ill-advised. Again, if you want to protest the 2nd Amendment, bring signage — something that states your intentions. Otherwise, in the eyes of the public, you’re just one trigger pull away from being a potential crazy person.

          And is that an unjustified assumption to make on the part of the public towards OCers? Not any more, in light of all the shootings that the media keeps playing over and over so it’s at the top of everyone’s minds. So, just know that, and stop being so surprised.

        3. avatar ThomasR says:

          Actually you righr tj; you being foolish ie a “fool” for coming down on either side of the question of the Brown shooting before all the facts were in was really not part of the my statement about you being the hypocrite for not defending our right to peacely assemble without being harassed for OCing a long arm.

          ;You say much of the same that was told about OCing a hand gun when I started OCing seven years ago. And none of it happened. No bad experiences with the police and the citizens. No “public panic”. The few that we hear about in the press is just that, a few.

          You’re hysteria about OCing a long arm; because that is what it is; is no reason to curtail a right. And beyond the few manufactured and cherry picked photos of OCers showing them in a not so flattering light: is the very reason to continue practicing this right. Because the only way to go back to what was once the norm, (OCing long arms) is to OC a long arm.

          So we will just have to agree to disagree tj, which is another reason is what makes America the greatest country in the world.

        4. avatar tjlarson2k says:

          Thing is… I never said I had all the facts. I have opinions, just like everyone else.

          In my post, I said if the police murdered that guy with no justifiable cause, then yes, there is a problem.

          If it turns out that the kid assaulted the officer and the officer was justified in his shoot, then that’s that.

          And the facts will come out sooner or later. So we’ll see.

          —————————————-

          And you keep saying I’m against OC. Sigh. I really don’t care anymore if you keep missing the point that others have made for me.

          So, I’ll let others speak for me:
          http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/06/robert-farago/jerry-miculek-to-ocerskeep-your-hands-off-your-gun/

        5. avatar ThomasR says:

          I’m glad you’re clarifying your position tj. In your first post you make the the statement “when a police department is staffed with people moronic enough to murder someone in cold blood” (paraphrasing) it sounded like you were talking about the Brown shooting. I’d hate to think you were foolish enough to say such a thing.

          I’m also glad ; despite your “sigh”, that you are clarifying that OCing a long arm, at least slung on the back with finger off the trigger, is acceptable.

          You see tj; Jerry miculek is a great man because even if he doesn’t agree with OC of a long arm, he doesn’t insult people for doing so and he gives positive recommendations how to do so in a non threatening way.

          Long live Jerry Miculek.

        6. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          So basically the exercise of a right is fine as long as it passes muster with tjlarson2k on the Internet.

          Everything else is stupid or irresponsible. Or some other negative adjective.

          Got it.

          Liberty is a LOT harder to defend than we realize. Nearly everyone want to “control the other.” The big argument is simply about “degree.”

        7. avatar tjlarson2k says:

          @JR

          “So basically the exercise of a right is fine as long as it passes muster with tjlarson2k on the Internet.”
          Well that’s one way to approach an opinion, I guess.

          “Everything else is stupid or irresponsible. Or some other negative adjective.”
          Unless it is stupid or irresponsible. Sure.

          “Got it.”
          Not really. But it was a good bit of trolling on your part. Congrats?

          ‘Liberty is a LOT harder to defend than we realize. Nearly everyone want to “control the other.” The big argument is simply about “degree.”’
          Re-watch the video. And keep re-watching until you can grasp the points made about presentation, public perception, self-awareness, awareness of one’s surroundings, intent, and putting people on the spot.

        8. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          “Unless it is stupid or irresponsible. Sure.”

          As defined by tjlarson2k. That part has not changed, I see.

          You and Bloomberg are cut from the same cloth. You each want certain rights for yourself and to define the rights and acceptable behaviors of others.

          YOU can own and carry as YOU see fit, but Goodness help those that disagree with your holier than thou self declared “acceptable methods.”

          The worst part is that you don’t even see it.

          If you think OC of long guns in Texas is in any way shape or form ‘wrong,’ move there (if you don’t live there already) and lobby to have the law changed.

          Until then, I have to agree with ThomasR: hypocrite.

      2. avatar John in Ohio says:

        If we cannot bear our rifles in times of peace, we damned sure won’t be able to do so in times of unrest. Everyday OC of long guns is an important exercise of the right to bear arms.

        1. avatar ThomasR says:

          Yep; I saw and read much the same hyperbole and ad-hominem attacks around OCing a hand gun a number of years ago.

          Now, after OCing a pistol for seven years; that has pretty much gone away to be replaced with the same hyperbole and ad-hominem attacks around OCing a long arm.

          I think it”s time to start OCing a long arm around Albuquerque.

        2. avatar John in Ohio says:

          Some of us OCers have been saying that if people didn’t have long gun OC to bitch about then they’d be bitching about handgun OC. Perhaps we should start OCing RPGs. That way, people can bitch about that and leave OC of handguns and long guns alone.

    2. avatar ThomasR says:

      Tj; you show yourself to be the fool. Just like Martin and Zimmerman, people like you were coming out on both sides of the argument before all the facts were in.

      Which means any thing else you have to day is coming from the mouth of a fool.

  9. avatar usriflecaliber.30m1 says:

    ‘We have the right to peacefully assemble!’

    I wonder if these are the same people that say we don’t have the right to keep and bear arms?

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Pretty much. And they consistently vote Democratic in the nation’s big cities.

  10. avatar Model66 says:

    Careful not to criticize the feds, you may he a terrorist.

    http://publicintelligence.net/dhs-domestic-violent-extremists-enemy/
    (I’m on mobile, so if the link doesn’t work just search for DHS July 2014 Domestic Violent Extremist.)

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Heck, if you have a pulse you could be a terrorist. “Here’s your [new] sign.”

    2. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Apparently, posts like “F* the feds.” aren’t permissible on TTAG anymore. I guess I won’t get on another watch list today. Oh well, there’s always tomorrow. 😀

  11. avatar JeffR says:

    Striking a balance between acting like the Gestapo and doing nothing (and, thereby, permitting anarchy) should not be this difficult.

    1. Precisely so and that’s why imposing at midnight to five a.m. curfew is a reasonable measure in light of the ongoing violence, looting, vandalism and very overt displays of and shooting of firearms in the area by so-called “protestors.”

      1. avatar DBM says:

        If the mayor was serious he’d place a curfew at 10 p.m. instead of midnight. At least no one has suggested declaring Martial Law.

        1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

          You are wrong. Someone did suggest implementing martial law.

          http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2014/08/14/hank-johnson-pushes-to-limit-military-surplus-for-local-cops-as-ferguson-unrest-continues/

          Now, not only does his ignorance of what happens under martial law (eg, suspension of habeas corpus, as well as any and all other civil liberties) boggle the mind, but his ignorance of who can call our the MO National Guard makes it quite clear that the Congressman hasn’t the intellectual capacity to serve in Congress.

        2. avatar DBM says:

          DY,
          Thanks for the link. Just remember ultimately it is wee the people who keep voting these idiots into office and keep them there for life. ;

          Baltimore has also implemented a curfew to try to try to control the violence. Just a matter of time before the violence and riots spread to a city near you.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      Okay… try it.

  12. Robert, honestly, you are trying to armchair quarterback this situation from Texas and it is not helpful and is only stirring up strife.

    The police are, at this point, being more than fair with protestors, working at the same time to stop the open thuggery, looting and vandalism going on.

    I understand your desire, at every opportunity, to find fault with law enforcement, but you are crossing a line here that is not helpful, either for the situation, or for TTAG.

    My .02

    1. avatar ValleyForge77 says:

      Have to say I agree with Paul T on this one. It’s getting old.
      Yes, some Cops are thugs. But so are some of us. So are some of every segment of society.
      Yes, your Police in RI must have sucked and wronged you somehow.
      Yes, some Forces and militarizing and that is NOT good, as it is separating them from the citizenry they are tasked with ‘protecting’.
      But the constant anti-police stance is getting old.
      I agree with another post that the biggest lesson out of this is that it highlights the needs for citizens to be armed, in events like these, as we have seen the Police essentially leave citizens to defend themselves and their property.
      What do you want them to do in this situation? It’s obvious that while many ‘protesters’ are peaceably assembling, but that many others are using this an opportunity to loot and pillage. It’s obviously a complicated mess and your slant implies that there’s some easy solution that that Police are not employing.
      Anyway, that’s my .02c, and I’m out.

      1. avatar ValleyForge77 says:

        …the Police that scare me are the ones in NYC and elsewhere that want to remove citizens RKBA, all while they gear up. That’s what we should focus on. That (and the Feds and Anti’s sheeple mind-set) is what drives us closer to becoming a Police state. Not when Police in MO have to deal with a rioting situation.

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          [Psst – Here’s a clue. We ARE a police state. Just ask your cell phone where the surveillance cameras are.]

          Hi, Missouri ISAC/Fusion Center! Hope things aren’t too chaotic for you guys. And best regards to NSA V3.

      2. avatar jwm says:

        VF77, RF was spit on at the age of 16 while on a date with a young lady by a RI cop. In the words of the old dime novel writers he was “unmanned” by the experience.

        Expecting fair and balanced reporting on cops from RF is like expecting fair and balance reporting on guns from HuffPo. Ain’t gonna happen.

        1. avatar ValleyForge77 says:

          Thanks for the info. I thought something must have happened there in RI, and had seen him allude to that before. I guess that would explain things a bit. I suppose we’re all a product of our experiences after all.

    2. avatar John M. says:

      I don’t get why RF can see that a typical DGU is a micro-war between civilization and barbarity and extend the benefit of the doubt to the DGUer, including to his weapons and tactics (a .45 ACP? With a laser? Really?) but not understand that an ongoing riot is a mini-war between civilization and barbarity wherein the forces of civilization deserve the benefit of the doubt, at least for the interim.

      Ask him about Israel and Hamas. I’ll be the gives the benefit of the doubt to civilization there, too. So what gives?

      1. avatar ValleyForge77 says:

        That’s a good point

        1. avatar Kevin A. says:

          That is an absolutely outstanding point. Over in Israel, when Palestinians start “rioting,” the IDF handles it. In fact, the IDF handles LOTS of things over there. It’s a highly militarized state. And yet, he says nothing about their anti-gun policies, nor the military check points and military tactics used to protect the country.

          Out in MO, there are rioters, looters, vandals, and apparently random gun fire. It’s a dramatic situation that calls for a dramatic response.

    3. avatar Richard says:

      Blow that bit about the cops protecting anyone out your ass, fool.
      They are standing around watching.
      Many people are being left to defend themselves.

      Since the cops aren’t there to protect…. what are they doing?

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        Why should the cops try to protect a neighborhood that doesn’t want to be protected? Why should they risk lives- theirs and those of the people they might have to shoot- when the nation is telling them they’re too ‘military’ and aggressive, and that they’re to blame for all this?

        There are good people there. People who own businesses and work for a living. I suspect they will move out as soon as they can or spend a lot of their capital turning their properties into little fortresses.

      2. avatar Jus Bill says:

        What are they doing?
        Collecting OT.

  13. avatar John Boch says:

    I watched it live last night on at LiveStream.

    Good coverage.

    Cops warned protesters that they should disperse. They got lippy. Then the armored cars rolled up. Louder warnings issues. Protesters really got lippy and more aggressive. Cops donned gas masks and another warning was given and then they let fly the smoke.

    When that failed, they went to gas and almost like magic, they scattered like roaches.

    From there, there was some low-level looting by small groups but that’s it. It’s the way it should have been handled last Sunday.

    If cops continue to ignore this Capt. Johnson jackwagon – who should be relieved for dereliction of duty for failing to engage the looters Friday night – this will be over in another day or three, especially if cops get serious about arrests.

    Gov. Jay Nixon has aligned himself with the “protesters”. Unfortunately, late at night it’s hard to separate the protesters from the looters.

    John

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I don’t know Capt. Johnson’s orders, or his authority, but I suspect if we all could just tell the truth for one day, it is someone superior to him and in control of his future that should be fired/jailed. What he is directed to do, what he is allowed to do, what he is legally required to do, I don’t know. Assumptions are still not helpful.

      1. avatar Bobby C King says:

        He can not tell the truth. He would be fired.

        We train our Public Officials to lie.

  14. avatar Brian says:

    Honest question here, I’m not trying to troll: What would the Armed Intelligencia here consider to be an ideal police response here? A slightly less militarized response? A British-style unarmed response? No response at all? I’m honestly confused as to the what the consensus here is. It seems like a lot of folks here in the past week think we need to simply police ourselves and have no police period, and that private citizens shooting unruly crowds that threaten property is preferable to police doing the whole “protect and serve” thing.

    Also, we need to keep this in mind in our discussion: There are two separate police issues here. One is the ongoing investigation into exactly what happened between the cop and the 18-year-old. The only fact we know is that he was shot. THAT’S ALL WE KNOW AT THIS POINT. It may have been a case of an overly aggressive, racist cop or it could be the exact opposite. At this point, we don’t have a clue. The second issue is the police response to the protests/riots. Just because the police have made missteps and have lost the PR war in their response, it shouldn’t color the investigation into the original shooting.

    1. avatar tjlarson2k says:

      Whenever there is a big hooplah about something, it’s usually the criminals, opportunists, rebels, looters, and violent folks that spoil what should otherwise have been a peaceful protest.

      The issue is also mob mentality. People get scared. Someone throws something. It breaks a window of a nearby business. Other people do the same. Now you have a destroyed business front. Someone steals something. More people follow suit. Etc. It gets worse and worse when people start to forgo their higher processes and just go with the flow.

      In a crowd, you get what is similar to liquid courage and do what you would normally never do if you weren’t in that crowd and acting on your own. Doesn’t make it any less right or wrong, but it is a predictable human response.

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        And sometimes all it takes is one person in the crowd to say “Wait a minute! This is stupid. We’re trashing our own place. We’re gonna get our azz kicked for this. Let’s stop.”

    2. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Advise the public to secure their own safety; by force of arms if deemed necessary. Law enforcement do what they resonably can to apprehend looters. Other than that, stay the hell out of the way and let it sort itself out.

  15. avatar Tominator says:

    I’m severely disappointed in TTAG for exploiting this incident and this is one time Robert Farago and crew are completely on the wrong side!

    “He pulled up ahead of them. And then he got a call-in that there was a strong-arm robbery. And, they gave a description. And, he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them. Tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael did. And, then he opened the car again. He tried to get out. He stands up.

    And then Michael just bum-rushes him and shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and them Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabbed for the gun. At one point he got the gun entirely turned against his hip. And he shoves it away. And the gun goes off.

    Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. And, so he really thinks he was on something.”

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/08/15/exceptional-catch-the-jj-witness-video-eye-witness-audio-of-mike-brown-shooting-sharing-brown-doubled-back-toward-police/

  16. avatar Brian says:

    Also, a (friendly) note to RF:

    Perhaps it would be helpful if you penned a post explaining the explicit connection between telling the truth about guns and police militarization. The persistent group that gripes about the perceived anti-cop bias here on our favorite website hasn’t made the connection that you obviously have. To be sure, police militarization and abuse of authority is an issue that deserves thoughtful discussion, debate and coverage. Whether or not any given member of the AI agrees with you on the issue is kind of irrelevant; I for one just want to learn the connection to the truth about guns.

    All that said, it’s your blog. Write what you want 🙂

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Well put!

    2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      May I offer why I, as a reader, think police militarization is relevant to the truth about guns?

      If so, keep reading. If not, stop here.

      In a nutshell, it boils down to this for me. Militarization of civilian law enforcement is tied very closely, at least in perception, to police abuse – things like no-knock warrant service, shooting dogs, opening fire on people sitting in a truck that does not even match the description of the suspect, etc.

      As an armed citizen, these things concern me for one particular, acute reason if no other. If someone enters my home unannounced at 3 am, my first thought is going to be ‘home invader’ and I will take steps to protect my family.

      And, I might get shot by the cops for my trouble, or they might throw a flash bang into my daughter’s bedroom. These things have happened to others. Or, I might end up killing a cop who was “just trying to do his job.” That’s happened to others, too. Having BEEN a cop, I would really, really hate that.

      It’s not the gear itself, by itself, that bugs me. It’s the gear as one piece of a larger problem. Other pieces include things like an “obey me” attitude, lack of accountability when mistakes are made and the end result of the “us vs them” mindset that is being cultivated.

      Militarization of cops lies at the nexus of a number of issues that concern me as a citizen, and one of them is a very real concern regarding how will those militarized cops act, or react, to me as an armed citizen.

      I have interacted with law enforcement while carrying, and so far, those interactions have been peaceful, professional of no ‘newsworthy’ note whatsoever. They went “by the book.”

      But the contrary experience is a real concern, and I won’t ignore it.

      1. avatar tjlarson2k says:

        “It’s not the gear itself, by itself, that bugs me. It’s the gear as one piece of a larger problem. Other pieces include things like an “obey me” attitude, lack of accountability when mistakes are made and the end result of the “us vs them” mindset that is being cultivated.

        Militarization of cops lies at the nexus of a number of issues that concern me as a citizen, and one of them is a very real concern regarding how will those militarized cops act, or react, to me as an armed citizen.”

        That’s a slippery slope though for the AI to consider. If we (citizens) are allowed to say “X is too much” for the police, then how different is that from anti-gunners attempting to do the same to gun owners now?

        And like you mentioned, it’s not so much about the gear as it is about how we use it. Which has been the argument that firearms owners have been using this entire time. One difference is, the “militia” has been militarizing on it’s own for quite some time now. Lots of range and self-defense courses are being taught by ex-military / LE, so does that count as “militarization”?

        How many gun channels now have a bunch of people in full tactical gear running around doing drills? If I didn’t know it was a bunch of civilians, I could easily mistake many videos for military training demos.

        So, is the point to not make it about gear? What are we left with?

        What we have here, are extreme tactics being applied to situations that do not warrant them. We have a lack of accountability, planning, and poor decision making. Unless you plan on encountering heavily armed resistance, there is no reason to roll in with the big stuff.

      2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

        “That’s a slippery slope though for the AI to consider. If we (citizens) are allowed to say “X is too much” for the police, then how different is that from anti-gunners attempting to do the same to gun owners now?”

        I can’t speak for others, of course, but get rid of across-the-board qualified immunity and impose accountability at the same level the rest of us are held to, and my beef with the gear is largely done.

        The mindset is the root of the problem, and that mindset is cultivated by the lack of accountability. The gear is, as you point out, just the tool, and not itself really the issue.

        Given that we don’t have consistent accountability, the tools are problematic. It’s the tools in the hands of someone with “us vs them” mentality and little fear of punishment that compound the problem.

  17. avatar Bob72 says:

    I am always the first one to say that we should hold government accountable and should restrict their influence on our lives. I have always been against the militarism of police, or the deployment of SWAT teams unless it is truly needed. I thought there may have been some justification for these protests. BUT, after discovering that the dead guy and his friend, which was the only witness beside the officer, committed a strong arm robbery 10 minutes prior, I now have no respect for the protestors and even less respect for the politicians trying to exploit this situation. Peoples businesses, their livelihoods are being uprooted simply because a thug who was predisposed toward violence met his inevitable demise. Geez, to think that this thug and the protesters got a few minutes of my sympathy just infuriates me.

    1. avatar ValleyForge77 says:

      + 1

  18. avatar ValleyForge77 says:

    One thing is for sure… If and when the S ever hits the F, those thugs on the roof and the same ones coming for your shit, and it’s pretty apparent you can’t rely on the Police to ‘protect’ you. Illustrates just how critical the RKBA really is. Without that, we really are a Police State – like sheep huddling in the corners of our houses waiting for the Police to come and save us – and wholly at their mercy to judge, jury and execute – if then, in their unchecked power, they decide to do so. We are the check. The 2A is the check. Reminding them that in the end, they are citizens too – and we have the right (and ability) to defend our lives, liberty and property. That’s why we are still America… for now.

    (Oh, and I support my local Police, as I have said many times. And in turn, they by and large support my RKBA. Hoorah mutherf@*ker)

  19. avatar Jus Bill says:

    I have just one obvious question:

    If the poor and broke protesters are so down on their luck that they have to loot, just where did the professionally printed signs (like those in the second picture) come from?

    The DOJ Civil Relations Division and New Black Panther Party are in town. Think about it. That is all.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      40 FBI agents to try and find any evidence they can to string up a cop but how many are tasked with trying to find the killer of the latest person caught in gang gunfire in Chicago?

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        10, if I remember correctly. But Tiny Dancer and McDrunkard are already in the fold, so it doesn’t matter at all.

  20. avatar Swobard says:

    I’ll simply chime in to say that “The Truth About Guns” rightfully includes consideration of our political standing in this nation. And THAT topic certainly includes police use of weapons, whether as government sanctioned thugs; or as protectors of a civil society.

    RF – stay the course.

  21. avatar cigr says:

    The killing which sparked all of this may or may not have been justified. We just don’t have the proper information on that. In the end, it doesn’t really matter. The protests are an inevitable response to a police force that has a history of abusing citizens. I believe the police response the protests were engineered to push the protesters towards violence.

    Keep in mind these are the same cops who arrested the wrong guy, beat him bloody, and then actually had him charged with “destruction of property” for having the nerve to bleed on their uniforms.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=cheatsheet_morning&cid=newsletter%3Bemail%3Bcheatsheet_morning&utm_term=Cheat%20Sheet

  22. avatar El Bearsidente says:

    Cute. But you spoiled American brats don’t even remotely know what a police state is.

    Fact here is, we don’t have all facts about the initial shooting. The fuckers riot, pillage, look and burn based solely on cheap emotional hyperbole and retarded hysteria and then you’re blaming the cops for trying to contain the mass idiocy, which, in a REAL police state, would be done with the army in the streets.

    Remember the Tiananmen Square? That was a crackdown by a police state on peaceful protestors. the buggers rioting in Ferguson are not peaceful protestors. They’re a violent mob.

    So quit whining you Americunts.

  23. avatar El Bearsidente says:

    Cute. But you spoiled brats don’t even remotely know what a police state is.

    Fact here is, we don’t have all facts about the initial shooting. The buggers riot, pillage, look and burn based solely on cheap emotional hyperbole and hysteria and then you’re blaming the cops for trying to contain the chaos, which, in a REAL police state, would be done with the army in the streets with MBTs and machine guns.

    Remember the Tiananmen Square? That was a crackdown by a police state on peaceful protestors. the buggers rioting in Ferguson are not peaceful protestors. They’re a violent mob.

    So quit whining about something you don’t even remotely understand.

    1. avatar Bobby C King says:

      A Police State happens when you can not exercise your rights.

      What is the Definition of Freedom?

      What is the Definition of Liberty?

      Our freedoms and liberties are spelled out in the Constitution of the United States first, then in the respective Constitutions of the States if such rights in State Constitutions do not violate our Federal Constitutional Rights. If you do not agree, please tell me as a liberal thinker; Can a State adopt Slavery? If not why?

      And for all you Liberals (Democrats) please remember that not one Democrat voted to abolish Slavery! NO NOT A SINGLE ONE. Wake up. This Nation is about to explode over the same issues that have already been settled and given to us as a people because of undereducated liberal thinking.

      I for one wish duels were still legal. If duels were legal, more politicians would think before they adopt laws that clearly go against their oaths of office and violate the Constitution they swore to uphold. I would have no problem settling a political disagreement over the limits of Government power by calling out a tyrant to a duel. Additionally, the spineless cowards that adopt unconstitutional laws and regulations would not hide behind immunity laws to violate our rights.

      Peaceful protestors were conceived to be able to become resistant to forceable attempts to prevent the exercise of Liberty and Freedom. If you don’t agree, then why did the Founders conceive that the American People may ever need the rights outlined in the 2nd Amendment?

      Grow up, get real. This was all started by Police State mentality. A concept that MUST come to an end.

      In a Police State, you can be stopped from free travel and asked for your papers. HUH? Sound like anything you have ever seen happen in the United States of Today.

      When the United States Pledge of Alligence becomes hollow words, we are no longer a free society. Freedom and Justice for all in the United States today? REALLY? Show me where. In Tennessee where I live, those in power have became a dynasty. Different rules apply to the power elite than the rules that apply to us ordinary citizens.

      If you live in a utopia where Freedom and Liberty for all exists, please do tell where that is today in the United States?

      Again, I wish duels were still legal. Those who have trampled on my rights would have thought twice about doing so before they acted with the public authority and behind the immunity they possess.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Legal duels? So the best/luckiest shot, the person with the ability to kill without qualms is the person writing the rules and the laws?

        Or the person that can hire the best and most ruthless killer is the one writing the laws?

        1. avatar John in Ohio says:

          Not much different than now, really. The only difference is that government currently has the upper hand. 😉

        2. avatar Bobby C King says:

          Yep, the best shot wins.

          The point is, if any person takes an oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution and fails, they can be called out into a duel. The spineless cowards that cower behind immunity laws will no longer be career politicians if they can’t keep their oath. Somebody with the guts to stand and say that the Constitution means what it says will eventually take the scum out of office.

          Better than the ZERO oversight and NO ACCOUNTABILITY we have now.

          What is your suggestion to keep our so called Leaders in line when our voting machines are ran using software that is not subject to public inspection?

          What, you did not know that that Software running the United States voting machines is Copy Right protected and owned by a private third party making our Elections suspect as NO ONE can review the software for malicious code?

          Educate yourself!!!

        3. avatar jwm says:

          And the person that takes his oath seriously and is trying to do right gets called out by the professional paid duelist hired by the people that don’t want the gov to run for the people.

          Voting is still the best way to get things done. What truly pisses me off is the number of gun owners I know that won’t vote.

        4. avatar Bobby C King says:

          Not a single person in public office I know takes their oath seriously, NO NOT ONE. They are in it for personal gain and the paycheck, not the people.

          But with an intellectual like you, the fact that our Elections are ran using software that is not subject to inspection for malicious code does not surprise me that you still think the right thing is to VOTE them out of office!

          Educate yourself, get real and get to the root of the problem. Oh,I’m sorry, if you try to get to the root of the problem you will be called radical, wacko, crazy, arrogant, stupid, ext….. Wake TF up! Our Nation is already overthrown without a single shot having been fired to overthrow us. But that prediction was made by a Russian Dictator before the United Nations in 1960. Of that I am sure you had no clue. Again, the Government preys on undereducated people. They pay the masses through entitlements. They only hire people who have with a below average IQ and we wonder what the problem is in our Nation?

          Look in your mirror, you will see a part of the problem. Yep, your either part of the problem or part of the solution. Its time to DEMAND the return to LIMITED Government. Again, before you speak, read the definition of Liberty and Freedom. After you do, if you still think you have both, go get married. After all, Marriage is the only institution you voluntarily commit yourself to for LIFE. And if you think the People of the United States have Liberty and Justice for all, you for sure need to be institutionalized.

        5. avatar jwm says:

          Wow, bobby c. Hyperbole, much? So I’m just guessing here, you don’t vote?

          So, other than dueling, as dumb a suggestions as I’ve ever heard, what’s your plan? Or are you just venting cause the meter maid dinged you again?

          By the way. I’m old enough to remember the russian dude pounding his shoe on the table. witnessed a lot of history first hand and read a lot more. We had libraries and not pc’s when I was young.

        6. avatar Bobby C King says:

          Good to hear that you are old enough to remember when we “had” liberties. Says it all!

          Yes, desperate times call for desperate measures. And when the meter maid has no oversight, is backed up arbitrarily and capriciously by the Courts, it is time to take desperate measures to return to the liberties you admit we once “had”.

          What happen about innocent until proven guilty? Oh, I forgot the Police officer who fired that first shot got to make the call in the field all on his own without rational reason or cause to be arresting officer, Judge, Jury and Executioner.

          When is enough, enough? I say its time now!

        7. avatar jwm says:

          bobby c. At which point did I state anything about liberties we once had? You still haven’t addressed the issue of dueling leading to bad guys running the gov because they can afford to hire professional killers to fight their duels.

          You haven’t stated what your ideas are except for vague crowd stirring rhetoric. And if a meter maid being backed by the courts is enough to spin you off like this methinks there’s very little reality or balance in your life.

          The only plan you’ve come up with so far is dueling. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that you’re not leadership material for any future rebellion or civil war.

        8. avatar LarryinTX says:

          I’m thinking we’re in the presence of someone needs medication.

    2. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Cute. But you spoiled brats don’t even remotely know what a police state is.

      You lost credibility with your insulting first sentence. 😉

    3. avatar Jus Bill says:

      And I suppose you live in a Police State for realz?

      …which, in a REAL police state, would be done with the army in the streets with MBTs and machine guns.

      So here we have Bearcats, machine guns, and tear gas. The difference? Badges. The net effect: The same.

      Now sit down and color. The adults are speaking.

  24. avatar Rob says:

    So, let me get this right. Punk strong arm robs a store, Cop stops kid and a wrestling match ensues. Kid gets shot and dies. Protestors begin rioting, looting and burning local INNOCENT business owners, Rioters begin throwing Molotov Cocktail Bombs at officers. Officers respond with rubber bullets and tear gas. Move forward to this time. Governor relives local law enforcement of their duties and brings in State Highway Patrol. Head of Highway Patrol plays kissy kissy huggie huggie with protestors and tells them they will not use rubber bullets or tear gas on them. That VERY night……. Protestors riot and continue looting. Tonight State Highway Patrol show up in full riot gear. Now a midnight curfew is declared and protestors STILL refuse to obey the law. Smoke & tear gas bombs deployed (See above note: “We will NOT use tear gas…..). AND, a protestor is shot and critically wounded (NOT by a cop)………………. Well Gov.Nixon…….. How well did THAT work out for you ????

    1. avatar Bobby C King says:

      I take your point well.

      Unfortunately until the People of the United States DEMAND the return to a Government with Limited power and accountability, things are working out just fine for good ole lying boy Gov. Nixon.

      Our leaders lie. FACT. Equal protection under the law does not exist. FACT.

      On a personal note. Just this past week in speaking with my Attorney he told me of a conversation he had with a public official about my political view that all should be treated equally under the law. That public official agreed with my view, but said he could do nothing to support my view because if he did, he was fearful of losing his job. Is that Tyranny? YES.

      We in the United States live under Tyranny. One set of rules for those in Power and another for the ordinary citizen.

      My political activism goes back over 3 decades. In 1984 we had a live copperhead snake put in our mailbox over political views. That snake went missing in a federal crime investigation. In 2007 the wife of the City Police Detective who took the snake out of evidence admitted that the evidence was removed and had been in her freezer for decades. This is the REAL United States.

      I live in an area with several Russian immigrants. A discussion over Freedom and Liberty was being held and a Russian immigrant laughed out loud. He was asked what he was laughing about? He replied that they have more freedom in Russia than he sees the people of the United States have.

      Freedom and Liberty? Only hollow words in todays United States of America. Things are just fine for the good ole boys who run our Governments in the United States today as they have one set of rules, can lie, cheat and steal and whisper in our ears that we have Liberty and Justice for all. Sad part is, most people believe those lies until their own Freedom and Liberty is challenged and they become the target of a tyrannical government.

  25. avatar Ralph says:

    Conflating the protesters with the looters is the last refuge of the racists (on both sides) who wish to make this situation worse. On Friday, the protesters did more to protect local businesses from looters than the police ever did.

    http://www.ibtimes.com/ferguson-during-friday-police-standoff-protesters-try-stop-looters-entering-stores-1660418

    It’s obvious that the cops are clamping down on peaceful protest while letting looters run wild. Locals who just want to protect their property or make a valid political point are bearing the brunt of government overreach.

    If the politicians and police can crush peaceful protesters, they can and will do the same damn thing to you.

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      I hope that everyone reading understands the implications of that last sentence. Sadly, I believe that most don’t think it will ever be used on them.

    2. avatar Tominator says:

      Look at the video of you peaceful protesters Friday night trying to shut down an interstate. Now, what were you saying? The Peaceful Protesters are there in the morning and the local politicians and police officers mingle freely.

      At night the protests turn violent! There is no right of assembly and there is no peace!

      1. avatar John in Ohio says:

        There shouldn’t be any peace if there “is no right of assembly.”

        1. avatar Tominator says:

          Do you ‘loot’ as well? I’d call you a dumbass….but you got lucky punk.

        2. avatar John in Ohio says:

          @Tominator: You’re acting like an internet thug with a bit of keyboard commando thrown in. My statement was simple; if the People are deprived their right to assemble then there shouldn’t be peace. The People ought not accept it. I didn’t advocate looting. You’re stating that the People lack certain rights and you are incorrect.

  26. avatar Tom396 says:

    Imagine, if you will, what happens if after ALL the investigations are complete and it becomes obvious the officer was in the right. No charges are filed and the officer isn’t even fired. Can you imagine what the streets of Ferguson would look like then? Probably what our POTUS is hoping for, because nobody would even remember his name, after that. Take care. Tom Worthington

    1. avatar Tominator says:

      That scenario is my concern….AKA Rodney King….

  27. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    Police received a report that people broke into Red’s Barbecue and some were on the roof — creating a potential danger for officers trying to disperse the protesters. Well, people get hungry after a hard day of looting.

    1. avatar Jon says:

      I say store owners should do it like the store owners in Haiti did after the earthquake:
      Sit on the roof with a shotgun at the ready, and point it at anyone who looks like they’re thinking about throwing a brick – those people will change their mind really quick.

  28. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    It seems two groups are present in Fergusson, the demonstrators and the looters. It seems the government and police cannot discern this situation, so they keep attacking and legislating against the demonstrators while doing very little about the looters..

  29. avatar Jon says:

    I’m not going to get started on this situation, but I have one question: Why don’t these protesters have gas masks? You’re a FULL RETARD if you go to one of these protests with riot police without a gas mask and then complain about how you were pepper-sprayed or tear-gassed! It’s like asking someone to punch you and then whining like a little pansy when they do!

    Seriously, I better not see anyone without a gas-mask whining about how they were gassed!!! You HAD the opportunity to prepare!

    1. avatar DBM says:

      LoL I’ve been gassed plenty of times in military training and its not something you go into unprepared. It won’t kill you but it will make you think you are going to die. Does wonders for unclogging sinus though!

      1. avatar Jon says:

        “Does wonders for unclogging sinus though!”

        I bet it does.

        1. avatar DBM says:

          Its hard not to laugh at watching people who have snot anging from ther nose to the ground while running into trees and buildings.

          CS also irritates the skin which is made worse by sweating.

  30. avatar Jon says:

    Also, when it says “rioters became unruly and several officers got trapped and injured,” then I have NO problem with the police beating those responsible to a pulp – it’s obviously not a “peaceful protest” at that point, and I don’t have any sympathy for those who start violence.

  31. avatar Jon says:

    I find this image disgusting! http://tinyurl.com/kxfvcp3 They call it an “African-American” flag. Clearly it’s just a bastardization of the US flag – we don’t have an “African-American” flag, we only have ONE flag!!!

    1. avatar Jon says:

      Oh, btw., forgot to mention the flag was being held by one of the demonstrators (found the image in the gallery from this article http://tinyurl.com/q76xeg5) – how un-American and racist!

      When you fly the American flag, you fly it for all Americans. When you fly this PoS bastardized “African-American” flag, you fly it only for people who are black…. and it’s the same as pissing on the American flag!

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