The Saga Continues: TTAG Reader Appeals IL CCW Denial

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By Shawn in Chicago

Several months ago, I was denied a concealed carry permit, despite fulfilling all of the obligations of the statute, with a no-details form letter. I had my 2nd court date yesterday regarding my appeal to my denial for a permit. My first court date, of which I was informed by mail somewhat unexpectedly, was originally going to be a straightforward agreement to the release of the documents regarding whatever objections were made to the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board regarding my application. Upon going before the judge . . .

all that was completely forgotten, as the representative of the Attorney General’s office presented me with the ’emergency amendments’ made to the conceal carry act after they realized they were going to get slapped hard for blatantly violating over 800 persons’ basic civil rights. I was handed a 10-page document with emergency amendments, containing mostly details about administrative rules to govern the review board, and in it was a small section regarding denials.

Under these new rules, the review board is not just allowed to, but required to inform the applicant of  the exact objections made to the application, by what jurisdiction and then allow for a response by the applicant. The response is required to be submitted within 10 days of the mailing of this information.

Naturally, I was annoyed that I had paid over $300 to appeal a decision and was being told they knew they were wrong and were asking for the case to be remanded. A status hearing was then scheduled for another date (yesterday).

After thoroughly reviewing the new amendments to the law and the motion to remand, I decided to ask the judge to either order the documents released to me or at least order the review board to allow me 30 days to review and respond to their objections, as 10 days barely allows for the mail to reach more than one party. She agreed to neither, and I essentially had no choice but to allow the motion to remand go through as it stood (I can’t afford to shell out $2-3k+ for an attorney).

So the case will now be remanded to the state police, who will direct the board to send me the objection information and allow me to respond before making a second decision. I asked the representative of the attorney general’s office how long that would take. Naturally, she didn’t know.

Therefore, for those of you who are counting, I have spent:

  • $225 on the the required 2-day class
  • $60 on fingerprinting
  • 70 rounds of .380 ACP
  • $150 on the non-refundable application fee
  • $315 on filing costs for the appeal

Illinois’ ban on carrying firearms was declared unconstitutional at the end of 2012. It took until the summer of 2013 to pass a law. I took the qualifying class last fall. I applied for the permit at the beginning of January. I was mailed the denial letter in March and filed my appeal in April.

My first court date was supposed to be mid-August, but I was informed with very little notice that my first court date would actually be at the end of July. At this point, I have a status hearing set for the beginning of December, which may or may not be necessary depending on how the remand order to the board goes.

That’s over $750 and eight months of my time, and I still don’t even know why I was denied. When I do find out and am allowed to respond, it will be at least another month or two in a best case scenario. Longer if I have to appeal again. All of this in order to exercise a right deemed by both the state and federal Supreme Courts as being as basic and individual as voting, free speech, protection from self-incrimination, unwarranted search and seizure and everything else we hold as dear as freedom itself.

This is my tax dollars at work. This is my government keeping me safe. Denying someone who has never been convicted of anything more than a speeding ticket the right to lawfully carry a weapon, while literally dozens of people are shot in my city on a weekly basis.

The struggle continues.

comments

  1. avatar Shire-man says:

    Meanwhile a felonious thug drops $100 on a high point from the back of a van down some alley and carries it everywhere he goes.

    This is like gun control Idiocracy. All the good people remain gunless while all the trash tool-up unabated.

    1. avatar Mark Lloyd says:

      @ Shire-man
      Oh c’mon! Everyone knows that’s not how thugs and pukes get their guns. It’s well known they buy them at gun shows, in the parking lot of a gun show, or they have their neighbor who has a brother who knows this guy that will buy a new one at a gun store and only make a little on the side.
      This is common knowledge.

    2. avatar Martin J says:

      I think it’s
      TIME TO MOVE! ! !

      You have about 44 better States to choose from.
      best of luck..

      1. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

        Please no, because the person moving from a bad state to a good state will bring with them the poor decision making skills that resluted in the election of the politicians who ruined the place whence they came. They’ll also probably tell everyone from back home how great this place is, which will cause them to come to a good state, resulting in more poor decision making skills creeping in, more change to the good state’s laws, and eventually they’ll ruin the place. As a resident of Arizona I’ve witnessed it first hand. Their state and its tyrannical rulers are their problem; they should clean up their mess instead of tracking it into my state.

        1. avatar NJ JOE says:

          Just because someone lives in a blue/antigun state, does not mean they vote for or share the values of their fellow citizens. Here in NJ, we have plenty of pro gun people…we’re just out numbered by the ‘city folk’. You would be lucky to have my family and I move to your state.

    3. avatar Esemwy says:

      Also worth noting, a heafty chunk of the population is already excluded by the prohibitive costs.

      From instapundit: http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/193027/

      “Only 48 percent said that they could easily handle an emergency expense of $400 without running a balance on their credit card. Almost a fifth said they simply could not come up with the funds, and a similar share said they would have to take on credit card debt. Others said they would either have to sell something (9 percent), ask a family member or friend for help (12 percent), or turn to a payday lender (4 percent) to come up with the money.”

  2. avatar SleeStac says:

    Its as if Government no longer functions with the publics interest at heart! /sarc

    Good luck getting your permit. I hope it is successful and less expensive going forward.

  3. avatar Michael B. says:

    Sorry, dude, but you need a lawyer. Maybe you could find a second amendment-friendly lawyer who would work for you pro bono. Or start up a kickstarter to get funds for one or something. I’d donate.

    Or call the NRA-ILA and ask them to help.

    1. avatar Rokurota says:

      This. It shouldn’t be this way, but judges and public officials listen to lawyers. They do not listen to non-lawyers. We need more activists like you, and activists like you need attorneys.

    2. avatar 'liljoe says:

      I second the fundraiser comment, I’d donate too.

        1. avatar Cogitans says:

          +4

          I don’t have a lot to send your way, but I would throw money into that pool. I’m fortunate enough to live in a state that doesn’t crap all over us to get a CCW (Washington State). It’s funny actually, the only time I ever had a positive experience with a government bureaucracy was getting my permit renewed. I walked into the county court house, asked one of the sheriff’s were do I go to renew my license. He very politely pointed me in the right direction. I told the attendant that I wanted to renew, and get this, while I was filling out my paper work she did her’s! All told I was in and out in 10 minutes and most of that was getting through the check point. Amazing when you consider that this was all done in Seattle.

    3. avatar Accur81 says:

      I suggest joining the NRA and whatever other Illinois-based gun advocates are available in your area. You need a lawyer. The judge and the system don’t give a shit about you. They are clearly hoping to bog you down in red tape, and force you to run out of resources so that they aren’t forced to issue a permit to you. They know that you have a life to live, work to do, and obligations to fulfill. Meanwhile they sit at comfy desks and chairs in air-conditioned offices “earning” taxpayer money. It’s disgusting.

      A lawyer is essential, I’m sorry to say, to cut through red tape and to hold the process accountable for which laws are being violated. Sue the bastards.

      DC is in the process of pulling the same crap.

      Best of luck to you, and I would donate to your lawyer costs or buy you an NRA membership.

      accur8@mac.com

    4. avatar B says:

      Contact Nra-ila, start a go fund me or something, and lawyer up. I’d donate, Illinois needs to be slapped down again, the sooner the better. This will help everyone.

    5. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      Before I kicked in a dime, I’d like to hear what he at least *thinks* the state’s objection might be. I know, I know, he’s trying to get the documents.

      Mix-ups do happen, as we’ve seen with NICS denials. Outdated records go without update, as we’ve seen with smaller departments with older, manual record keeping systems. Anything’s possible. Hypertechnical bureaucrats do selectively interpret rules to try to screw people over. Still.

      In my experience, I’ve heard people claim ignorance of negative things a million times, whether it’s their criminal record, employment record, credit report, education record, you name it. You get the Scooby Doo response out of them when you call them on it, like I’m Shaggy asking them a question: “Ri ron’t row, Raggy!”

      Seriously? You forgot that you actually majored in general business, not specifically accounting, as your resume claims and the position requires? Slipped your mind that you declared bankruptcy two years ago and that’s why you have a square root of negative “i” for a FICO score? Oh, and that check forging conviction? You thought “nolo contendere” was Latin for “Let’s just forget this ever happened and get on down road, ok?” (I actually had an applicant once claim she graduated from law school, when the reality turned out that her mother was a lawyer and the woman was “law school home schooled.” Hey, 1753 called, they want that career path back. In 21st century America, no law degree + no law license = not a lawyer.)

      Yet, it’s all true. Then come the consequences of these actions and people are shocked, SHOCKED!, that they must face them.

      Now, I think the whole licensing scheme is a scam to begin with and shouldn’t exist. Unfortunately, Illinois didn’t ask me for my opinion. Nevertheless, they denied his app for a reason, perhaps a b.s. reason, but most likely for some kind of legal reason. I’d like to know what that is before I jump on the support bandwagon. If he has a case and they’re screwing him, I’ll kick in the first fifty bucks toward a lawyer.

    6. avatar bontai Joe says:

      You need a lawyer and not one that specializes in Real estate or car accidents. If your local NRA office can’t recommend one, then call your local bar association, their number is in the phone book. Ask for a list of lawyers that specialize in 2nd amendment cases, or firearms law. Lawyers are like doctors, they specialize in all sorts of stuff, and having a probate lawyer do your firearms stuff is not a good idea, just like having a foot doctor do brain surgery is not a good idea. I needed an immigration lawyer and went thru the bar assoc and got my first appointment set up for $25 (in 1996) and he took care of everything I needed for under $1000 when I had quotes from other attorneys for $5000 and up. Lawyers do cost money, but they don’t have to cost thousands if they know what they are doing. The last lawyer I needed cost me $750 and took care of everything I needed him for.

  4. avatar Wiregrass says:

    Quite Kafkaesque, your predicament. Good luck. I hope living in Chicago is worth it.

  5. avatar 36IDRedleg says:

    Maybe its time to get out of the “People’s Republic of Illinois”. Lots of other states that have greater freedoms.

    1. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

      There’s approximately 0% chance of changing things for the better if the good people leave and don’t fight for what’s right. Remember the saying, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

      1. avatar Rainhaven says:

        I prefer to think of it as letting them sleep in the bed that they made.

        Sometimes things have to burn down so that the good people can then go in and rebuild – the right way.

        1. avatar bozo says:

          Indeed. Also, safety in numbers. Plus, strategic surrender to regroup with a larger force is often wise.

      2. avatar B says:

        Illinois has been changed, citizens there are nearing the final push, they can’t give up now. Just like Cali and DC, they are getting drug kicking and screaming back to America. Its disgusting how they are using procedures and lies to wear down the people, but its just one more big kick in the teeth before the zombie finally goes down.

  6. avatar Joe R. says:

    Ya got no b__tch, you voted for those cack-sackers, or you voted for the cack-sackers that voted in those cack-sackers.

    1. avatar tfunk says:

      Ahh, finally a well thought out, well reasoned post on TTAG

    2. avatar Rokurota says:

      Some advice: don’t cut your crack with shoe polish.

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        That which you ignore, that which you tolerate, and that which you promote, define you equal to your own action or inaction. – TERMS, J.M.Thomas R., 2012, pg. 43

        The threat is no longer perceived, it is in-view, and it is not getting smaller in the windshield.

        But, by all means, why don’t you leave it to us to solve for you.

      2. avatar Joe R. says:

        Conservatives don’t often spout-off like the anti-gunners so often mentioned here. If you distill their (anti-gunners) message down to it’s most basic thought though it can be paraphrased into “You, as a gun owner (and all other gun owners) are f’d up”.

        Again, Conservatives don’t typically talk like that, but we need to use the same argument against them.

  7. avatar Raul Ybarra says:

    In addition to the NRA or ISRA, you might want to look at Popehat. This is a story and case they’d be interested in.

  8. avatar Evan says:

    I had to drop 6k on getting an FPID in NJ. It took a year and a half, two court visits, a Pshyc exam, a police visit to my home, “friendly” searches of all my social media, 2 visits to the police station, one with the chief himself, a fingerprint at an outside agency, a fingerprint at the police station, a 3 character references, 3 more for the psych test, a lawyer(Evan Knappen highly recommended in NJ), employer notification and, assloads of paperwork. I had a judge in court tell me that owning firearms was a privilege not a right. The reason for my denial? I used two colors of ink, (mind you it took months to fill out the paperwork), the paper was a bit crinkly, and they thought I was weird for wanting an FPID.

    1. avatar Gene says:

      As I was reading, I was anticipating seeing “and a partridge in a pear tree” at the end of your list.

      Man… That’s some crazy mess to go through.

    2. avatar Joe R. says:

      You are not asking enough of your neighbors why they are so f’d up.

      1. avatar Robert S. says:

        You need to pack your bags and relocate to Indiana…we have the only lifetime CCW in the country… once you become a resident. Indiana is a pro gun state…all the way. I have to remember not to carry into IL when I travel there. Your state is a depressive & communist regime. Obama country!!!

  9. avatar Dano says:

    You say you’ve never been convicted of anything beyond a traffic citation. Have you been charged with anything more? Have you ever had a restraining order filed against you? This is the kind of nonsense philly has been using as the basis for denials.

    1. avatar lizzrd says:

      The original post said he’s been arrested for DV and spent a week in a psych ward – more than enough to get denied based on the current Illinois statute.

      1. avatar Dano says:

        So then he might have an idea as to why he was being denied and it’s not a total mystery? Forums are full of denial stories where someone claims a spotless past despite brushes with the law.

        1. avatar Gene says:

          Speculation is very different than being told what the disqualifications were. You can’t argue your own speculations to a review board or committee because that’ll just mean the decision makers will say “That’s nice, but that’s not the reason we said ‘No’. Thank you for playing, please try again.” It’s incumbent upon the decision makers to specifically and tangibly identify why a denial occurred.

        2. avatar Dano says:

          To say in a previous post that you were arrested for DV charges and checked yourself into a mental facility is a far cry from “and I still don’t even know why I was denied.” I think he’s got a pretty good idea what they’re using for the denial. I’d like to see someone from TTAG do a criminal history check on this guy before they keep believing his story hook line and sinker. I’m not in IL, so I really don’t pay any attention to IL law. Now, if those incidents are disqualifiers, then that’s what it is. If they’re not, then fight on and fight till you win.

          But, as I said. Forums are full of people who have selective memories or are convenient at forgetting details when they tell a sob story about their rights being denied. In PA, it’s the same story over and over. I never did anything wrong in my life – until they tells us about the drug possession charge from when they were 18. Yeah that is a CCW/LTCF DQ offense in PA. So, it goes from never did anything wrong to oh that arrest from 20 years ago that I forgot about because it was just a little weed and that’s no biggie.

  10. avatar Evan says:

    If you start that kick starter I’ll donate too. Also call the NRA. They may help refund your lawyer fees. They helped me out by sending a 3k check after everything was over.

  11. avatar ValleyForge77 says:

    I don’t know anything about Shawn, but if my local Police told me that they are preventing me from exercising my Constitutionally-protected civil liberty to defend myself and my family, because somehow they deem that I ‘pose a danger to myself/others and am a threat to public safety’, I would be just a wee bit upset and keep suing them until the cows came mooing home. If they determined I was a ‘threat to myself others and public safety’, why am I not locked up? Is that not slander as well? I hope NRA-ILA can help you friend.

  12. avatar Tom Stanton says:

    Go get em’ – I know it’s a struggle – but it’s one worth fighting. Here in CA we have a similar deal. Here it costs about $400. At this point – in Sacramento County – you can’t even get an appointment because the backlog is so deep.

    I began the process in October of 2011. However, my permit didn’t come through until late November 2012.

  13. avatar LJM says:

    Keep fighting.

  14. avatar Leadbelly says:

    As a Missouri resident, the only reason I can see to even VISIT Illinois is better strip clubs.

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Sweet Jesus, you must have some stank-ass strip clubs in Missouri, then!

  15. avatar LJM says:

    And democrats cry about voter ID laws claiming they are effectively a “poll tax” to prevent someone from excersing their rights. Bitching about going to a DMV, taking an hour out of your time on a weekend, paying $10-20 for a 5 year state ID, proving your residency vs. the bull crap we have to go through for a RIGHT that was CLEARLY articulated over 200 years ago by far greater men that will ever govern this country again.

    1. avatar Accur81 says:

      Democrats of full of sh!t.

    2. avatar int19h says:

      As a liberal I do think that voter ID laws – as they are currently written – are, indeed, poll tax. I think it’s pretty hard to argue to the contrary, since it puts a recurring fee on your right to vote.

      I don’t mind voter ID laws so long as ID is available for free and with minimal hassle.

      For similar reasons, I believe that concealed carry licenses, and any other licensing documents associated with RKBA (as well as any training expenses in those states that mandate such training) should also be fully paid for by the state.

  16. avatar Ken Bach says:

    Todd Vandermyde (NRA/ISRA) and Valinda Rowe (Illinois Carry) have recently been (and probably still are) involved in referring people denied a CCL to pro-2A attorneys. The 2nd Amendment Foundation is involved in at least one ongoing case in IL. Attorney J. D. Obenberger has a case that is currently being heard in federal court in Chicago with very similar facts to your case (14-cv-02839 Berron v. Illinois CCLRB). Google these folks and ask if help is available. There is no harm in trying.

  17. avatar George says:

    I’d send copies of everything to the 2nd Amendment Foundation. May not help, but unlikely it could hurt.

    And for those of us not involved with Illinois, but enjoying the victories of SAF, we can send them a check.

    SAF.org

  18. avatar Tommy Knocker says:

    Don’t forget that you might be on some “watch list” the Feds have. Since that is national security stuff, I don’t think you have a “right” to be informed you are on it. Remember that the esteemed Senator from Mass. Ted Kennedy was on the watch list for years an could not get his name taken off.

    1. avatar KCK says:

      The young women’s “Men to WATCH out for” list??

  19. Have you tried to guess at why you got denied? You have absolutely no idea why you were denied?

    Weird indeed.

    1. avatar DonS says:

      A form letter denial doesn’t seem all that weird (at least, not for IL).

      As lizzrd alluded, there was a TTAG post on March 30, 2014 (link in original post above) which might explain it:
      I can forward you the full explanation of reasons of possible denial but the short version is: I was arrested 6 years ago for domestic battery, charges were dropped. I was admitted voluntarily for a week to a psychiatric ward ten years ago. That’s it.

      Unfortunately, he may need an attorney to get it sorted out.

      1. OK, missed that, he had earlier informed us:

        “I was arrested 6 years ago for domestic battery, charges were dropped. I was admitted voluntarily for a week to a psychiatric ward ten years ago. That’s it.”

      2. avatar Thomas says:

        So the guy is potentially a crazy wifebeater, and he’s surprised he got denied in one of the strictest gun control areas in the country? Wow.

  20. avatar mike says:

    Just the tip of the icberg when it comes to firearms issues in your state. So if at all remotely possible… MOVE.

  21. avatar Wendell says:

    Move! If you can’t, make plans to leave in the future.

  22. avatar KCK says:

    Being the bit end of the roto-rooter for this proces, you know what you are going to have to go through.
    At least you’ll be clearing the pipe for others behind you.

  23. avatar Ed Rogers says:

    You’ve spent almost $800.00 and invested numerous hours in this quest. You have a fair document trail and have the ears of the TTAG readership. That’s a start. One of the things I hate most about our judicial system is the notification by mail.

    The 2nd Amendment Foundation IS a great avenue, if they’ll take your case. It seems that you’ve been able to hold your own though. Maybe they cold mentor you? http://saf.org/?page_id=2926

    I encourage you to keep up your quest, however you’re able. You’re doing a service to Chicago. Good luck!!

  24. avatar LJM says:

    To those who preach moving… srew that. I live in Illinois and would never give up and leave a place my family has lived for the past 130 years. I’ll stay and fight even if I’m the last pro-2A citizen here. People leaving only give electoral fuel to those who wish to deny Americans their rights. I’ll stay and take people to range and change minds (and votes).

    1. avatar Accur81 says:

      Excellent warrior mentality, sir. Don’t let the “just move” mindset and those who preach it get you down. The fight is wherever you are standing, for as long as you can stand. Carry on, sir.

  25. avatar Garrison Hall says:

    You should probably be in contact with the state politician’s who support concealed carry in your state. They can be remarkably effective in cutting through bureaucratic red-tape.

    Just sayin’.

  26. avatar Pulatso says:

    You can’t be the only one, surely someone is (or will be) preparing a class action suit.

  27. avatar Chevelier says:

    So you’re a danger to yourself and others but you can still have a FOID card and purchase and own all the guns and ammo you want, but without that CCW you’d never dare carry any of those weapons and actually do harm. The lack of logic hurts my brain. This is a joke. FOID carry and soon because all this additional CCW stuff is a joke.

  28. avatar Scott L. Schable says:

    And I was thinking of getting my conceal carry license for Illinois, due to doing a somewhat risky and legal hobby in Northern Illinois. It probably will not be worth the effort to get it, then.

  29. avatar John Boch says:

    I’m pretty sure I know who this Shawn is and that he and I have met in person more than once.

    He’s a good guy, and I guy I’d like to have around me if things go sideways, especially if he’s carrying more than a .380.

    As he mentioned, there are almost one thousand cases of denials suing for their due process rights. Lisa Madigan is trying to shunt them all back to the Illinois Concealed Carry License Review Board.

    Here’s something I put up at Guns Save Life about this…

    http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=12935

    Illinois’ Attorney General Lisa Madigan is frustrated by more than the fact she’s isn’t the nation’s best looking attorney general. She’s also crabby about two hundred plus individual appeals of Illinois Concealed Carry License denials that have swamped local circuit courts and left her office stretched thin defending the denials.

    Illinois new Firearms Concealed Carry License Act law allows for local police agencies to submit objections to concealed carry applicants for a variety of reasons, including those that didn’t result in arrest, much less a conviction. Those objections are referred to the newly created Illinois Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board (CCLRB) for a supposedly impartial review, by a preponderance of the evidence, as to whether the applicant is a danger to themselves or the general public.

    Given that our governor has as much love for gun owners as the rest of us do for child sex offenders, it’s not a surprise that his appointees to this board aren’t exactly civil rights champions.

    There are many problems with the system, not the least of which is a complete lack of due process rights recognized by the U.S. Constitution. The CCLRB’s deliberations are secret and there is no right for the applicants to submit a rebuttal to the objections issued or to cross-examine witnesses. Applicants are not notified of the nature of the accusation or even which police agency submitted the objection.

    Hundreds of gun owners, denied their application through this flawed system, have at great personal expense, appealed to their local courts. This flood of suits has Lisa Madigan’s office very busy defending the appeals and she’s seeking to have them all tossed back to the CCLRB for a second look.

    The Illinois State Police have also announced new emergency rules which mandate that the kangaroo court-like CCLRB disclose the reason for the denial – and it offers those rejected a mere ten days to appeal the determination.

    Ten days. How generous, right?

    Todd Vandermyde, the NRA-ILA’s contract lobbyist in Illinois, offered his thoughts of the mess at Capitol Fax, an influential blog that covers Illinois State government.

    The Review Board created a lot of this problem themselves. They read the statute in a conflicting way. How they could not provide any real information on why someone was denied is beyond me.

    And [Cook County Sheriff Tom] Dart using any excuse they can drum up to file an objection because they didn’t get their own permit process or may issue is just reason they should be on the hook for these types of appeals and the fees incurred.

    People always want to know why gun guys oppose lots and lots of bills when people tell us, “we only want to do this” or “this is so reasonable”.

    Well here you have what should be a shall issue permit, with limited exceptions for Law Enforcement to object, and we have a Board that can’t even get the name of an individual to match up with the criminal record despite having fingerprints that say HE IS NOT the guy being objected to.

    In this case the benefit of the doubt was given to the state to get it right and they blew it. Not only that but you have at least two cop shops making a mockery of some of this.

    CPD actually filed an object that based in part on the guy having been cited for violating the registration ordinance about 10 years ago. an ordinance that no longer exists due to the Supreme Court, the 7th CA and our state preemption.

    And some of you wonder why gun guy oppose all these anti-gun bills or new regulations.

    Also, Guns Save Life president John Boch also posted the following at Capitol Fax.

    Those suits have each been initiated at great expense by individuals who have no criminal records and few, if any arrests.

    It’s not cheap to hire a competent attorney to file a circuit court action to seek simple due process that should have been granted in the first place. Further, the law said if people object to the review board’s decision that they take it to the courts. And that’s where they are, at roughly $3k-7k in legal expenses later (and counting) – and the attorneys involved project those cases to take a year or two to resolve. All because the State wouldn’t give them the basic due process that the Constitution demands.

    For Lisa to now ask all of those cases to go back to the review board, I think she’s asking a lot more than she’s entitled to.

    I know of several folks who have one or more carry permits from states like Florida. They have no prior arrests or indicators of violence, but who do wish to exercise their right to carry a means to protect themselves outside of their homes. They have FOID cards and are law-abiding citizens. A few are even quite competent firearm instructors – including at least one or two formerly ISP-approved CCW instructors).

    In one case, the only objection was a temporary restraining order filed by the man’s wife to strengthen her negotiating position during a bitter child custody fight as part of divorce proceedings. The temporary OP was dismissed and his FOID card immediately restored two weeks later.

    Another case was a guy who got into a peeing match with Bloomington PD who have been especially objection happy. A FOIA request revealed the current chief advocated for an objection for another guy who injured some man he was fighting with in a bar twenty or thirty years ago. If that had been a criminal act, surely the applicant would have netted a felony conviction and lost the ability to have a FOID card. Instead, I suspect it was self-defense and here comes the Bloomington PD to the rescue to save us from a man who was simply defending himself.

    If Lisa Madigan wants to reduce the numbers of cases in the courts, she should seek out due process and a genuinely unbiased arbitration panel that offers the benefit of the doubt to applicants who have been objected to by local police.

    1. avatar lizzrd says:

      There are issues with the new process that are being worked out pretty quickly. The fact remains that 99% of applicants aren’t denied. Not bad given the subjective nature of the “danger to themselves or others” clause in the statute.

  30. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    I feel your pain Shawn. I live in Illinois too. I can’t afford cc right now and it is maddening to live a mile from Indiana. How did you get a FOID card if you had that on your background? I’m pretty sure you can carry a gun in a case and mag separated. I left Chicago in 1989 never to return. I’m battling the a##holes right now to pass emissions on my truck. They won’t accept repairs done in Indiana- they don’t pay the Illinois slush fund to be “approved”. And don’t get me started on the $25 slush tax on Cook co firearms. Good luck & get ahold of Illinois NRA guys.

  31. avatar Jim Jones says:

    It’s really simple. In my view, if you can pass a NICS check, there is simply no basis to deny an individual a CCW (never mind that we shouldn’t have the NICS system in the first place).

  32. avatar Robin says:

    I do not understand why you asked for permission to do something that is a right. If you don’t tell anybody and you don’t flash it around, why does anyone else need to know that you are armed? So you won’t get in trouble? Seems to me that you already are just by begging for permission. If you carry responsibly, no one will ever know unless you really need it.

    1. avatar ShaunL. says:

      That may be prudent if you have nothing to loose but for some people it’s not worth the risk. You say nobody will know but accidents happen everyday as do terry stops.

  33. avatar cmeat says:

    so much hate for the smelly garlic onion place. similar to converting the gun shy with a range visit, a proper back alley dragging is in order to sway minds. one word of caution: our strip clubs have teeth, gumby.
    for those fellow locals about to take the plunge, let me relate this: keep your scrilla in your billfold. fingerprints are not required. my badge of honor arrived in less than sixty days, effectively silencing those who couldn’t wait another thirty. “he was right.”
    if they want my prints they can go and lift them from a strippers ass.

  34. avatar Roscoe says:

    Ever hear of a hollow victory, Shawn.

    You’re riding one; and you’re paying for the joy of the ride too.

    The epic battle continues.

  35. avatar Tom Collins says:

    Unfortunately, any DV incidents (either accusations or convictions) are particularly sticky boogers to flick off the finger…

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Which is especially heinous….that a man’s life can be so strongly impacted by the mere accusation of an act is so morally reprehensible that the Founding Fathers TRIED to codify protection against this sort of thing into the Bill of Rights.

      The Second Amendment is not the only one under constant attack. We are wise to remember that.

  36. avatar Mike says:

    And this is why, despite the availability in Chicago of some well-compensated positions in my field, I refuse to do anything more than drive through or fly over the nauseating expanse of government ineptitude that is Illinois. I may have been born there, but that was my parents’ fault, not mine.

  37. avatar Gregolas says:

    A righteous judge would have chewed out those bureaucrats, dealt with everything at the first hearing, and ordered them to pay your court costs.
    Probably too much to expect in Illinois.

  38. avatar youzernayme says:

    Wow. What a pile of crap to go through.
    When I was getting my license in Idaho, is was delayed (not denied). I was notified rapidly. It was due to a charge during my air force time when I thought I was slick enough to steal a CD. I presented my docs on the situation and it was resolved quickly. Start to finish, 87 days. Illinois has a long way to go.

  39. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

    Shawn – may I suggest you call Alan Gura or the Second Amendment Foundation Don’t know if he works pro bono or if SAF will jump in, but this is precisely the type of SNAFU they warned about when they brought the McDonald and Ezell cases as precursors to suing Madigan. . . . More importantly, your type of issue is one that would help build IL CCW law to actually put due process back and perhaps take away some of the governor’s powers here.

    1. avatar rlc2 says:

      Shawn, second this, but also note that strategic litigation takes time and a sympathetic plaintiff.
      And a good lawyer, to help on an arguable case, with good behaviour on your part, including how you plead your case in the public forum….

      So far, we dont know enough the case, and IANAL, so no comment, other than, once again, GET aLawyer to tell you, if you do, and someone experienced with a track record in FIREARMS LAW, not your cousins buddy, who does condo construction defects, whatever…

      Two examples come to mind:

      http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2014/07/25/firearms-agitator-still-waiting-fight-gun-charge/13159033/

      Imho, the definition of Original OCtard. Not sympathetic, in other words. And I believe he lost, on the law, too, so not going in going OT on that, Embody, if you are lurking…case closed.

      and:

      Peruta. Without dredging up old details, all I am going to say is things starting working once Ed stopped arguing his case in public and getting bogged down in negatives, (long time Calgunners might remember lessons learned there too…circular firing squads) and listening to his lawyers.

      IOW he had a case, based om the law, AND became sympathetic, once he stopped dojng his own PR…

      I don’t mean to infer you are hurting yourself here, just that at some point, its easy to do, in your enthusiasm and outrage, justified or not.

      Again,trust your experienced lawyer, and perhaps the experienced gun lobby group that knows best. NRA, SAF, etc.

  40. avatar Mark Lloyd says:

    The folks advocating you get a lawyer are correct. This is how the legal game is played.
    HOWEVER, they didn’t just pull a name out of a hat with a name on it for someone to mess with. It’s obvious that you have some background, but aren’t exactly sure what they are nitpicking at, and you certainly are unwilling to spill your guts to the masses of readers on TTAG and divulge all your dirty laundry that you would rather just vaped into thin air.

    Get a lawyer experienced in firearms rights restoration cases. You need to make sure any disqualifying convictions are vacated and the rights restored. Or, depending on your states laws, enough time as elapsed from the date of conviction. I’m not researching your states laws as laws vary from state to state. Make sure that any cases that may have been cleared on the state level, are cleared on the federal level. All too often, some clerk in the clerks office doesn’t get a form faxed off to the FBI and you will fail the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS and if you fail that, you may fail a CWP.
    Good luck and find a GOOD lawyer. There are far too many lawyers that are willing to take your money, do virtually nothing and then tell you there is nothing they could do, when really, you could have done it with some well placed phone calls.
    If you have ANY domestic violence convictions, those are very difficult to overcome.

  41. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    It’d be quicker and cheaper just to pick up and move to Iowa.

  42. avatar johnb says:

    Sounds like a poll tax….huh.

  43. avatar John says:

    I hate to say it (as I live in Illinois, also, and the CCW is unaffordable for me), but I actually hope you continue being denied, then take it to Federal level and get the Illinois scheme declared unconstitutional similar to the Jim Crow voting laws. It would really, really, REALLY suck to be the guy that has to fight it every step of the way, but maybe your sacrifice can help everyone else.

  44. avatar Almost Esq. says:

    Yes setup a kickstarter at the very least. And do find a lawyer… You do not want to do this only halfway, it’s too important. There has to be somebody out there that will represent you pro bono. I would also contact the NRA or the 2nd Amendment Foundation as well, perhaps they can get you in contact with a pro bono lawyer.

  45. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    My heart goes out to anyone who has to live in Chicago. You couldn’t pay me enough to live or work there.

    All I can contribute is my heartfelt empathy and encouragement. I hope you’re involved with the Illinois State Rifle Association, Guns Save Life, and/or Illinois Carry. There is strength in numbers, and sometimes there are class action suits.

    I wish you well. Please keep us informed!

  46. avatar Don says:

    Curious (not trying to be a smartass): Have you ever been for a ride in the back of a police car? Do you have any drug-related record? Any violent offenses, protection from abuse or restraining orders?

    1. avatar DonS says:

      See the link in the original post above. According to that March 30, 2014 post:

      I was arrested 6 years ago for domestic battery, charges were dropped. I was admitted voluntarily for a week to a psychiatric ward ten years ago.

      http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/03/robert-farago/ttag-reader-denied-illinois-concealed-carry-license/

  47. avatar J o e says:

    70 rounds? The process only requires 30. You miss a lot?

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