Warwick, RI Police Ditch .9mm for .40 Ammo

Warwick police target, magnification unknown (courtesy warwickonline.com)

“The Warwick Police Department issues every officer a SIG P229 – a semi-automatic pistol distributed Sig Sauer,” warwickonline.com reports. “However, an officer may use a weapon of his own choosing as long as it is in .40 calibers. Some officers choose to carry Glocks. Previously, officers could carry anything they wanted but when it came time for Mathiesen to order the ammo, it could get confusing. ‘I had to literally figure out what you carry if you carried a .9 mm or if you carried a .40 mm,’ [Inspector Chris ] Mathiesen said. ‘I had to balance all the info and it was a nightmare.'” Not to mention the nightmare of loading all those rounds and sweeping up afterwards.

comments

  1. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    How about most depts. let their LEOs carry what ever caliber and gun they want to as long as it passes your departments requirements.
    They would be a lot happier bunch and maybe just maybe would be able to hit the broad side of a barn.

    1. avatar Vhyrus says:

      Except that screws logistics. Two officers engage a suspect. One has a 40 one has a nine. Now if one or the other runs dry or has a malfunction they are SOL because the other cop can’t toss him a fresh mag. It’s the same reason military weapons platforms are all standardized.

      Now has far as BUGs or off duty weapons they should be able to carry any damn thing they want bigger than a 380.

      1. avatar Marc1980 says:

        As a reserve deputy, I carried two additional mags. 46 round total. If I run out, it doesn’t really matter. If I have fired all 46 rounds and still need to fight, I’ve either already made my way to my rifle…..or I probably shouldn’t have been firing in the first place….which i’m sure the jury would decide.

        1. avatar emfourty gasmask says:

          Tell that to the LAPD, they cant seem to carry enough.

      2. avatar Gregolas says:

        I once thought this was a valid advantage of pistols over revolvers, until I realized two things:
        1. If my partner misses the toss, the mag will most likely land on the feed lips (b/c of the center of gravity), thus becoming non-functional, and;
        2. If that bozo shot up all his ammo and hasn’t neutralized the threat yet, why should I give him more ammo to waste?

      3. avatar DD says:

        If you look for studies where this scenario has played out in the past, you’ll find that it hasn’t. Not because cops are cheap or uncaring about their partner, rather because they tend to lean toward self preservation during a life threatening engagement.

      4. avatar Jay in Florida says:

        I wasn’t being serious with my comment.
        I did the fire arms quals for small rural police depts. At the 100 yard indoor range I used to work at.
        Usually no more then 3 to 5 full time cops per town dept.
        They did pretty much carry what they wanted to and could hit the target with their chosen guns.
        Unlike big city depts. Where 46 rounds isn’t enough to hit one suspect.
        But it is to hit 9 innocent civies as in the NYPD.

      5. avatar DangerMouse says:

        Logistics, exactly. Most departments get huge ammo discounts and buy in huge quantities.

        Doesn’t really work as well if you have 6 different semi auto rounds and 3 or 4 different revolver rounds to stock up.

    2. avatar TTACer says:

      They should be required to use rounds with serial numbers embossed in the bottom so they know which one of them killed the dog.

      1. avatar Marc1980 says:

        THIS! Touche!

      2. avatar Tex300BLK says:

        this might be the fastest way to bury the idea of microstamping 🙂

  2. avatar Marc1980 says:

    Why is this news???

    1. avatar TTACer says:

      Just trying to reignite the debate over whether .9mm calibers is better than .40mm calibers.

    2. avatar Simon says:

      It’s news because .9mm is about the diameter of pencil lead and .40mm is even smaller.

      1. avatar Marc1980 says:

        Nice catch! Can’t believe I did not see that.

      2. avatar Menger40 says:

        Why settle for 15-19 rounds of 9mm in your sidearm when you could have 180 rounds of .9mm!!

        1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          Sweeping up the brass? Good luck finding it!

  3. avatar Ken says:

    If the administrator in charge of weapons was ordering point 40mm rounds I can see why it was a “nightmare” for him. I would think that one in charge of weapons for a department would be required to know the 101 class level things, like the difference between metric and standard nomenclature.
    Nope, obviously not.

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      That’s just one reason why it’s a logistical nightmare.

  4. avatar Retired LEO says:

    When I requal annually I do so w/every authorized caliber. I will say it’s much easier for officers to shoot and qualify with a personal carry usually. They tend to be more familiar & practice more.

  5. I’d like to see some of this .9 and .40mm ammo.

    They must have some interesting weapons.

    Oh, and….

    Caliber wars are stupid. That is all.

    1. avatar Jandrews says:

      My first though as well. .9mm is awfully small…Hope they expand like crazy.

      And yes. Caliber wars are stupid.

      1. avatar Steve Day says:

        Yes, well – if you ditch the preceding decimal points, it means he was talking about ditching 9mm handguns in favor of 40mm hand-cannons. They’re going to have a few sore wrists!

        1. avatar Doc Hendo says:

          Well the 40mm is a grenade launcher. NYPD would still manage to hit everything but the target.

  6. avatar tdiinva says:

    Funny, the FBI ditched the 40 and is going back to the 9. But since I have it on the good authority of a badass NCO that caliber doesn’t matter maybe the cops should move to 22LR. That would accomplish two things. First, since a 22 is easy to shoot the average LEO would have a better chance of actually hitting the target and second the manufacturers would ramp up 22LR production and it would eventually become widely available again.

  7. avatar explainist says:

    .9MM? Pencil lead? and they are moving UP to .40 from .9?

    I think they need to jack up their school system

  8. avatar Scrubula says:

    Departments usually do testing, so I’m sure they have a good reason for choosing .40. I guess when they order ammo they give each officer a certain amount, so it’s easier to require the same caliber and just order enough boxes for the entire department than asking each officer what they want.

  9. avatar Yossarian says:

    Switching from .9mm to .40mm? Must be moving toward less-than-lethal technology.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      They’re moving to “less than visible” technology.

    2. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Needle guns. Less messy. AND you can fix tears and rips on the fly.

    3. avatar Daniel S. says:

      A .40 P229 has a good amount of “snap” and muzzle flip. Not a fan.

  10. avatar JR_in_NC says:

    “‘I had to balance all the info and it was a nightmare.’”

    Tactical issues of mixed calibers aside, according the quote, he did not like having mixed calibers because it was hard for him to place the order.

    How hard could it be?

    X officers carry 9 mm
    Y officers carry .40

    N rounds per officer.

    Order X * N 9mm
    Order Y * N .40

    Done.

    Between the caliber decimal point issue and this apparent lack of understanding 7 grade (or lower) level math, I don’t think I’d want him anywhere near my department, especially responsible for ordering duty ammo.

    1. avatar fmrfarmboy says:

      You do understand the author of the story put the decimal in front of the 9 and 40..

  11. avatar Johannes P says:

    “I had to literally figure out what you carry if you carried a .9 mm or if you carried a .40 mm,” Mathiesen said.

    Mind blown by this sentence.

  12. avatar Chris. says:

    — ‘I had to literally figure out what you carry if you carried a .9 mm or if you carried a .40 mm,’ [Inspector Chris ] Mathiesen said. ‘I had to balance all the info and it was a nightmare.’” —-

    Oh NO! How can you possibly keep track of how many rounds of 2 calibers you need… If only there were these devices like computers that maybe had a database or a spreadsheet or something that could be used to calculate & keep track of things like this for us.

    I mean you’d Literally have to go to each deputy once and ask them do you carry 9? or .40? and then enter that, and then remember to hit save, it’s literally a logistical nightmare.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      I can’t believe that you completely blew past the funny part.

      .9mm? .40mm? Hello?

      1. avatar BillF says:

        You can still put an eye out with either one.

        1. avatar Amok! says:

          And these comments are only funny until then….

      2. avatar Chris. says:

        meh.

        I get it, but you know how many times I’ve seen this .9mm in text? It’s just not that funny. Sure, it was funny the first time I saw it. I think that was around 2003.

  13. avatar Ralph says:

    Carrying the .9 mm or the .40 mm — those are for puss1es. My personal choice would be the Milkor MGL 40mm revolver. Yeah, you only get six shots, but that’s enough.

  14. avatar Menger40 says:

    .9mm? .40mm? They should compromise and standardize on .177 pellet guns.

  15. avatar RandallOfLegend says:

    Thank god they aren’t switching to 40 mm

    1. avatar SpeleoFool says:

      That would make one hell of a breaching round.

      1. avatar Jandrews says:

        The 40mm rounds are actually made from recycled doorknobs.

  16. avatar tfunk says:

    They are switching from .9mm to .40mm??? Good god, have they not seen Shootingthebulls’ ammo tests?

    Well, ok, maybe if they use the recently released G2 R.I.P. version. I’ve heard it makes the .40mm almost as manly as .45mm

  17. avatar tfunk says:

    And that target needs to stop skipping leg day at the gym. But I will give it credit for wearing pants.

  18. avatar former water walker says:

    Awww c’mon. Keeping track of those tiny boolits is hard. You’ll put yer eye out kid…

  19. avatar DD says:

    … and you all say your not anti LEO. Come on!

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      No no no. We’re completely in favor of the po-po having all the .9mm that they want!

  20. avatar AZGarandGuy says:

    Well, if they were real men they would use the .10mm round.

  21. avatar Burnout says:

    Why .40 caliber? Does it kill pet dogs better?

  22. avatar I_Like_Pie says:

    .45mm would make the target asplode!

  23. avatar RandallOfLegend says:

    Glock is about to announce .40 mm GAP

  24. avatar ensitue says:

    I smell kickbacks!

  25. avatar JAS says:

    The ideal police caliber is 5.7x28mm. They just haven’t figured that out just yet.

  26. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    Thank God they aren’t carry Glock .17s…

  27. avatar Senna Marpat says:

    Jandrews: The visual of Ahhnold solemnly putting doorknobs in an M79 just made my week.

  28. avatar Sian says:

    Strange, I’m seeing trends of departments abandoning .40 for 9mm.. it’s easier on the guns, easier on the shooters, and no less effective.

  29. avatar Model 31 says:

    ‘I had to balance all the info and it was a nightmare.’
    I suppose they will be replacing every AR with a Cx4 in 9mm

  30. avatar mike says:

    They’ll switch back to 9mm in due time. Most departments do.

  31. avatar Samson says:

    A few points- Please hold for HAHA to the .40 S&W haters.

    Also- there were a few posts about the FBI “considering the return to 9mm for .40” – the FBI HAS NOT ACTUALLY REMOVED .40 S&W FROM THEIR INVENTORY AND STILL ISSUES G23/G27s .. like it or not.

    And suddenly there are posts everywhere about the death of the .40 S&W caliber because the entire LEO universe is returning to whence they came and supporting the now-mighty 9mm caliber. I am here to tell you, .40 S&W (and a good measure fired from a Glock but also many other favorite-flavor pistols) are still the dominate law enforcement and even governmental caliber. And it has a good portion of probability to win the Army trials . There is a very good reason Delta Force switched to Glock 22s and 27s in .40 for their use. Because they have the most reliability, most power and most rounds combination. All that bullstuff about how .40 S&W users are such beeatches because they try to compromise and can’t decide if they want more powerful rounds or more ammo to carry etc. etc ; guess what. the world is built on compromise. It is what smart people do , uneducated people do NOT compromise and they generally lack success in life. .40 S&W is far from dead and all it would take would be the US Military selecting it to become the dominate caliber in the country. Do I expect that to happen, no not really. I believe they will either stay with what they have and select a new brand pistol (Sig or Glock) and a new variety of 9mm round to make up for the anemic NATO-spec 9mm issued round, OR return to the .45ACP which would make sense for combat. HOWEVER, they very easily COULD go .40 S&W and the .40 S&W like it or not is still one of the most important pistol calibers and *THE* Law Enforcement Agency caliber in the country, straight up.

    1. avatar LC says:

      LOL thanks for giving me a reason to want to rearrange the dental alignment of 40 S&W fanboys.

      Of course 40 hasn’t been removed from FBI inventory. There are still handguns carried by agents that are 40. Transitions dont happen over night.

      Secondly, 40 doesn’t dominate anything. 45 ACP and 9mm are still immensely popular, with 9mm surpassing every pistol caliber around the world, including those such as the various common wealth SAS units and various other types with similar missions. Nope. No 45s or 40s there. I wonder why?

      Third, the CAG teams re-discovered the same problems of the Glock 22 that many law enforcement and civilian shooters discovered.: they wear out faster. That is why Glock 17 and 19s are becoming more popular among special operations types, yes, even surpassing the mythical 1911 customs and SIGs.

      Really? more “power”? you mean a measily extra 100 ft lbs of energy? with the increased muzzle flash and recoil and wear characteristic of 40?

      Finally, 40 is the very definition of compromise. It creates more problems than it solves and many people are realizing this. The quantity of used 40s in gun stores speaks for itself.

      So take your 40 fanboyism and kiss off. your post was a entire bunch of fvcking nonsense and i felt dumber for reading it.

      1. avatar Opie Rator says:

        LC, a flaming 9 mm fanboy, has the butthurt.

        “CAG teams re-discovered the same problems of the Glock 22 that many law enforcement and civilian shooters discovered.: they wear out faster. That is why Glock 17 and 19s are becoming more popular among special operations types”

        Because you know if there’s anything operators are known for it’s being frugal. Once they get a piece of kit they must keep it forever and ever and they certainly would never just replace it when it’s reached the end of its service life.

        1. avatar Samson says:

          Thank you Opie Raptor.

          I forgot to mention, you know you’re REALLY up against it when your competitor attempts to out-fox you by going with the “I’m more Tier One Than You” by going all “CAG” on me when I thought a simple Delta Force would suffice. Of course, had he really known anything about his subject matter, he would have realized “CAG” has not been “CAG” since their unit designation was bandied about on national TV following the invasion of Tora Bora, and has been “ACE” ever since. Meanwhile, DEVGRU’s “next official unit name” has somehow actually remained fairly secretive due to seriously enhanced policies of worker-secrecy and security.

          But hey, when in doubt during an argument, ESPECIALLY a caliber argument or trying to bash the .40 S&W, just drop a few “CAG”s and you’re golden! Now I will let him go back to polishing the finish on his drop-leg holster.

      2. avatar Samson says:

        Sticks and stones may break my bones but your harsh incorrect words will never hurt me. Try looking up the statistics before you try to hurt my feelings.

        And you wouldn’t be able to rearrange my dental work, but thanks for the personal threat. I’m all warm and fuzzy now, thanks.

        1. avatar Doc Hendo says:

          Of course the 9mm isn’t a compromise. That’s why entry teams everywhere prefer it to rifle calibers and shotguns, because the 9mm is superior in every way. That reminds me, I need to trash everything I own and go all CX4… Goodbye 12 gauges, goodbye 300BO, goodbye, 5.56, and goodbye to all the .40s I would have used otherwise to fight my way to one of those long guns. What a waste of time and money on my part. SMH

        2. avatar Samson says:

          Doc Hendo ,

          I am not sure if it just looks wrong or you perhaps got the people switched, look I agree with you, I was someone defending .40 S&W and defending the concept of choosing a caliber that is a “compromise” because it makes sense, with many reasons backing it up. I completely agree with the stuff you said and didn’t mean to suggest otherwise, I think it looks different because when you reply to a reply and possibly reply again it doesn’t stack up the responses in a perfect order/ column of “trees” of replies.

          So sorry brother I ain’t mad at ya, I was on your side.

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