Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge Story of the Day: MMA Edition

Joe Riggs before he shot his hand (courtesy mmafighting.com)

Joe Riggs out of UFN 51 after ‘unfortunate accident’ with gun, the headline at mmafighting.com proclaims. Setting aside the “unfortunate” descriptor, I’m not a big fan of the word “accident” when it comes to negligent discharges. I prefer “negligent discharge.” It’s a term that ascribes blame for an inadvertent ballistic event. “The UFC announced Tuesday that ‘Diesel’ injured his hand while cleaning his own pistol and won’t be able to recover in time for the UFC Fight Night 51 card in Brasilia, Brazil, on Oct. 13.” Yeah, about that cleaning thing. Are there really people stupid enough to shoot their hand before cleaning their gun? Shouldn’t that whole “accidentally shot himself while cleaning his gun” thing be reserved for police suicides, protecting widows’ pensions? Anyway, the passive part . . .

“We were made aware that newly-signed UFC competitor Joe Riggs was involved in an unfortunate accident last night,” the UFC statement read. “While cleaning his permitted firearm (a pistol), the gun discharged, injuring his hand and upper thigh. Riggs was transported to a nearby hospital in Arizona where he is being treated by physicians. We wish Joe a speedy recovery.”

A source close to Riggs told MMAFighting.com that he is in stable condition and the injuries he suffered in the accident are not life-threatening.

Hmmm. Riggs’ injured hand and upper thigh indicates that yup, he was stupid enough to forget to clear his weapon (GLOCK?) before pulling the trigger so he could remove the slide. In other words, the gun was pointed downwards at his own body. Riggs broke not one but two safety rules: never point your gun at something you’re not willing to destroy and treat all guns as if they’re loaded.

However you look at it, guns don’t discharge unless someone pulls the trigger. Any news report written in such a way as to make such a thing seem possible demonizes firearms and fails to educate gun owners and non-gun owners alike on an important aspect – or two – of firearm safety. But I’m thinking, hoping you already knew that. [h/t AV]

comments

  1. avatar Scrubula says:

    “While cleaning his permitted firearm…”
    I don’t like that phrasing at all. It describes his handgun as a privilege rather than a right.

    1. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

      It sounds like he was in Arizona at the time, and we don’t have permitted firearms. Maybe he was on the CA side of Havasu.

      1. avatar Mark Lloyd says:

        Or in Yuma. Drive down a street and suddenly you are on California. Turn right, get on the freeway and take the first exit and you are back in Yuma. Technically, I could have been locked away as I my firearm was stuffed in my holster and concealed in California without a permit and a high capacity mag.
        Naturally, CA can kiss my ass.

      2. avatar JasonM says:

        Maybe it was a Glock 18 or Beretta 93. Those have to be registered with the feds, which is sort of a permit.

    2. avatar Braenen says:

      In Brazil, it is a privilege, not a recognized right.

      1. avatar Drew says:

        I doubt he was transported from Brazil to a hospital in Arizona for a minor gun shot wound. Unless you were just pointing out a fact about Brazil.

    3. avatar Tim Clarey says:

      could be that he had a “permit” to own that weapon i know years ago in ny you needed a permit

      1. avatar Chris Johnson says:

        Here in Az you don’t need any permits. Not even for CC.

        One of the last free states left!

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Free states LEFT? I understood that law became effective within the past year. That would be a newly free state, something I personally would be even more proud of.

      2. avatar Hannibal says:

        “Years ago”?

        Things have only gotten worse in NY.

    4. avatar Scott McIntosh says:

      Yeah, what part of “Shall not be infringed” so these bozos NOT understand? By the way you also have to clear the striker on I know the SA-XD full size and compact models too. The M&P has this weird push down the sear thing. I can’t understand why someone doesn’t ALWAYS check the chamber before cleaning?

      1. avatar Roscoe says:

        Your last sentence should go without saying anytime one handles a firearm Scott, but there’s a saying: “Sometimes you just can’t fix stupid” that probably applies here.

        And as for “accidents” as Robert alluded; that word is way over used I think as a PC way to obsolve idiots of their own stupidity for tragic events that wouldn’t have occurred if a) they had simply been paying attention to what they were doing and b) they weren’t trying to push the envelope and take on more than they were capable of or competent to do.

        1. avatar Roscoe says:

          Edit last sentence: “…and *recklessly* take on more than they were capable of or competent to do.”

    5. avatar B says:

      The news always uses that phrasing, even if there is no such thing. They said the Marine in jail in Mexico’s guns were licensed and registered. Most people don’t seem to know what it takes to buy a gun, can’t have the serfs know they can just go to a store and tool up without having to ask the government for permission.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Wasn’t he in CA? Can you do that in CA?

  2. avatar Shire-man says:

    Since you cant clean a loaded gun how does this keep happening?

    1. avatar Chris. says:

      Stupidity.

      Thanks for asking.

    2. avatar John in AK says:

      Well, you CAN, but it’s hard to get that last little bit of barrel at the back end really clean. I suppose that you could just ‘ultrasonic’ the whole thing and blow it dry. Or stick it in a dishwasher with the ‘water-heat’ setting off.

      Yeah, that’s the ticket.

    3. avatar Taylor TX says:

      No but you can attempt to field strip a pistol which requires you to squeeze the trigger with a round still in the tube.

      1. avatar Sian says:

        Well yes but you’d have to be drunk or stupid to do that.

        1. avatar Scott McIntosh says:

          To be fair, shouldn’t we say drunk, stupid or ignorant? 😉

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Shouldn’t that read “drunk, stupid AND ignorant”?
          I have cleaned many a gun while drunk, and have lived all my life pretty stupid (according to some), still have never shot myself, cuz I just had 2 out of 3.

    4. avatar Scott McIntosh says:

      If the pistol in question is either a Glock or a Springfield Armory XD then you have to pull the slide back a certain way for each, activate the take down feature, a lever on the XD and a spring loaded tab on the Glock. After that you are REQUIRED to pull the trigger so that the striker is disengaged. This is the only way to pull the slide forward off of either pistol. So you don’t check the chamber, pull the slide back, activate the take down, point the pistol somewhere bad, pull the trigger and BAM negligent discharge! It’s easy to avoid but it can easily happen too.

      1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

        I own and carry an XD, and it is impossible to pull the slide back without ejecting the cartridge in the chamber, whether one is preparing to clean the gun or not. It is also impossible for the gun to fire if the slide is locked back, which has to happen before the takedown lever can be moved.

        He may have been messing around and pulled the trigger while preparing to clean the gun, or even after he got done, reassembled it and reloaded, but it is impossible to fire a round during the takedown – and needing to pull the trigger to remove the slide is irrelevant to this ND.

        1. avatar Scott McIntosh says:

          Well I just checked my XD and my Glock and I stand corrected, the Glock is the only one whereby you can pull the slide slightly back AND release the takedown with a round in the chamber and therefore suffer a negligent discharge when you pull the trigger to disengage the striker, thanks for the correction. Unfortunately I blew up my XD Service .45 with a double charge. 🙁 I moved and didn’t keep bad ammo separate from good. I hastly gathered up ammo for a USPSA match and mixed bad with good. AFTER the match I was practicing on some steel and BOOM, blew the magazine out, shredded the first couple of rounds in the mag, burned my hand and stung like a b*tch! It’s another one of those no excuse gun things. Lesson learned and I am going to lead the barrell and hang it right in front of my reloader!

        2. avatar MamaLiberty says:

          Need to say I’ve never disassembled a Glock, so if they don’t need to have the slide locked back to release, then the cartridge might not be ejected. If the trigger was pulled at that point, with the slide in battery, I would thing that there would be some serious damage to the gun, as well as the foolish handler. In any case, I don’t see how it would fire normally.

          Tripple check the chamber, clear all ammunition from the area where guns are being cleaned, and don’t combine cleaning with dry fire.

          So many ways to be stupid…

      2. avatar John in AK says:

        The proper sequence for slide removal on any Glock-brand Glock is to remove the magazine, clear the chamber, then pull the trigger with the slide full forward in battery; The slide is then held back out of battery no more than1/4″, the slide lock pulled down evenly on both sides of the frame to clear the barrel lug cut, and the slide then pulled off the front of the frame. If the slide is moved too far back, the trigger will reset, and the slide will not be released due to the striker tang and the trigger bar cruciform piece coming into contact again. When the trigger is pulled, it will remain to the rear until the gun is reassembled and the slide pulled back, OR if the trigger is properly reset manually, as the trigger bar tail/cruciform piece is down the drop-safety ramp and the connector is out of position.
        I have experimented with trying to first take the slide out of battery by 1/4″ and then pulling the trigger with the slide held back, which does allow the trigger to move fully to the rear; However, this does not drop the rear of the trigger bar/cruciform piece free of the striker tang, and the result is that the slide will not release, even if the trigger is held full back, and the instant you release the trigger it will fly forward again, not really ‘resetting’ as the trigger has actually not been ‘pulled’ in a way that would release the striker. However, so long as the slide is not fully forward in battery, the connector is not engaged, and the striker will not fall; The trigger will simply ‘mush’ to the rear as it compresses the striker spring but does not slip off the striker tang to fire the gun.
        This means that the only way to convince a Glock to fire is to have a chambered round, have the slide full forward in battery, and then pull the trigger. It will not ‘stage,’ it cannot be tricked, and even attempting to disassemble it stupidly by pulling the slide slightly back and pulling the trigger will give you the chance to correct your mistake–unless you let the slide go forward again and THEN pull the trigger.
        That Gaston is a smart fellow.

        1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

          Ok, thanks for that detailed explanation. The Glock, then, disassembles differently than the XD.

  3. avatar John in AK says:

    Let’s just tell the truth, here: “Neanderthal-browed violent sick a**hole who makes his living beating the sh*t out of other Neanderthal-browed violent sick a**holes for money to entertain violent sick a**holes who pay to see that kind of violent sick sh*t negligently shoots himself by stupidly pointing a loaded firearm at his own hand and pulling the trigger.”

    Film at Eleven, Bob.

    1. avatar Glenn says:

      Exactly! Chooses a career(?) where he beats up other similarly dense idiots & doesn’t know how to clean a gun w/o shooting himself. Should have been a Darwin award.

      1. avatar Calvin says:

        +1 Glad I have a job where success isn’t being the guy with the least s#@t beat out of him at quittin’ time

        1. avatar LeadSlinger says:

          +1. Nothing but Gladiators at the Colosseum.

    2. avatar Dev says:

      It’s ironic that someone who is a fan of shooting and firearms fails to see the sport in physical competition like MMA.

      1. avatar the ruester says:

        Normally the martial arts are revered around here. Maybe they are sore about the death of boxing?

        1. avatar John in AK says:

          Never considered THAT a ‘sport,’ either.

          George Carlin had a good riff on the subject; His idea was to get all of the MMA MMFs and boxers and other violent jocks together in one big arena, maybe on an island, and let them kick and punch and bite and maim and kill each other until only one was left, and then shoot that one.

          Now, THAT’s ‘sport.’ /sarc/

        2. avatar the ruester says:

          John;

          “This is my idea for one of those big, outdoor summer festivals. This is called Slug Fest. This is for men only. Here’s what you do. You get about a hundred thousand of these fucking men. You know the ones I mean. These macho motherfuckers. These strutting, preening, posturing, hairy, sweaty, alpha male jackoffs. The muscle assholes. You take about a hundred thousand of these disgusting pricks, and you throw them in a big dirt arena, big twenty-five acre dirt arena. And you just let them beat the shit out of each other. For twenty-four hours non-stop. No food, no water, just whiskey and PCP. And you just let them punch and pound and kick the shit out of each other until only one guy is left standing, then you take that guy and you put him on a pedestal and you shoot him in the fucking head.”

          -GC

        3. avatar Hasdrubal says:

          If you move far enough down the political spectrum, you will find someone who can cheerfully lump almost everything into the same category. Football, hockey, car racing, even baseball, track and field, and any other kind of physical competition you can imagine, all will be lumped together as disgusting displays of testosterone and neanderthal era manliness, attempts by brutish men to demonstrate their superiority by virtue of power.

          You can be certain the shooting sports will be included, except with the added bonus of penis jokes and implication that anyone who partakes is a coward, because anyone who won’t settle their differences with a fistfight is no man (and the logical disconnect with the previous points is ignored, likely because of something Bush did (if that doesn’t work, look at this baby)).

          George Carlin had a pretty good bit about guns, too. Funny, except for the contempt he seemed to have. Doesn’t give any extra legitimacy to anything. Has it been so long since Theodore Roosevelt that we’ve forgotten one of the most profound quotes on personal excellence I’ve ever heard?

          “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

          If the fans scream for blood, then maybe there’s an issue. But to denounce someone’s drive to be the best they can be? Just because we don’t like the commercial trappings that make it possible for them to pursue it without the limitations of a traditional office or factory job? Count me out.

        4. avatar LarryinTX says:

          So, did Carlin get paid for suggesting “The Hunger Games”?

      2. avatar John in AK says:

        It’s ironic to think that something as disgustingly bloodthirsty, that has as its core intent the idea of intentionally hurting and possibly maiming another human being, as is MMA and its MMFs could be called a ‘sport.’ If such things are ‘sport,’ so is a gang fight.

        1. avatar the ruester says:

          Sir, there is no truer sport than hand to hand combat. It is in fact the very struggle of life, reenacted with no mortal result, not for simply our pleasure but also for for the ATHLETES in question to test their mettle. You have no right to deny them that satisfaction, your tender sensibility be damned! What I’m telling you is that you are an old fuddy duddy.

        2. avatar Dev says:

          You apparently have little knowledge of the sports of boxing, wrestling, MMA, and martial arts. In the sport the object is not to hurt but to score points. The physical conflict is something that every animal does from the time they are young until they grow into adulthood, it’s nature’s way of ensuring survival.

        3. avatar John in AK says:

          H’mmm. . . I thought we were striving to be less like the animals, not more. Silly me.

          Doesn’t one gain ‘points’ in boxing by beating the other guy to the canvas, or opening up his face, or knocking him unconscious which is widely accepted as causing brain damage? I forget. . .

          However, I can’t fault the need for survival. That’s why I carry a handgun, to deal with a**holes who want to try beating me to death like an animal.

        4. avatar ropingdown says:

          To paraphrase Mike Tyson: “Everybody thinks boxing’s a manly sport, just up until I punch ’em in the head.”

          Muhammed Ali did not become a wreck due to Parkinson’s disease, but acquired Parkinson’s syndrome due to prior punches to the head.

          Boxing and most other ‘martial’ sports are stirred up and promoted by little men out to make a buck. The money is in the gambling and entertainment viewing. I’ve never seen anyone pick a fight he didn’t have reason to think he’d win, though the guy’s opinion was often enough disproved. I’ve never had someone pick a fight with me but he had several friends to jump in if he was losing.

          The Greeks legitimized boxing (the pancration) in the Olympics, but only the lower class of men took part, much as today. When the Romans took over the Olympics they added metal studs to the leather wraps the boxers wore around their hands. Typical. The sport was in the watching, not the doing.

          Any sport that predictably lowers at least one participant’s IQ a few points is one I’d rather not take part in, so that I still have enough brains to make my own financial decisions. Judo? Fine.

          Teddy Roosevelt did some boxing, but remember, he only took on Harvard boys. Teddy then moved up to guns for defense, and stayed with ’em.

        5. avatar Hasdrubal says:

          John and ropingdown, rather than get into an argument over how much respect boxing and MMA should be given, I would rather ask what kind of physical competition either of you feel should be given great respect, and why? Pretty much any noble field of human endeavour can be dragged down into the mud by a man like Tyson. Not all of them deserve such treatment.

        6. avatar Hasdrubal says:

          Wow, take the second ‘rather’ out of that one- it’s almost the end of the night and I must be more tired than I thought.

        7. avatar John in AK says:

          Hasdrubal, I find no paid commercial ‘sport’ “noble;” In fact, I find paid commercial ‘sportsmen,’ and those who pay to watch them, rather IGnoble. On the other hand, those that participate unpaid in amateur sports, and those who enjoy watching amateurs compete–including those that may donate to the cause of true amateur sport, such as in the manner of room and board, or equipment, but never ‘pay’–rather noble.

          So: Olympic Fencing, yes; Pro Football, or MMA, no. The dividing line is, is someone getting paid a salary to do it, or is someone paying to watch it as some kind of spectacle? If so, it’s a tawdry business and not a ‘sport.’

          Now, of you’re not talking ‘sports,’ but really mean ‘Physical Competitions’, then the only noble one is war.

        8. avatar Hasdrubal says:

          I find your opinion very well thought out and reasonable, though I don’t entirely agree with it. Many professional athletes come from nearly nothing and give tremendously to their communities when they find success. How many people found hope and inspiration in Joe Lewis’ defeat of Max Schmelling? Granted, men like Tyson, Tiger Woods, and too many football players to count draw the public eye in a negative way, but a hundred of them wouldn’t be enough to wipe away the legacy of someone like Ayrton Senna.

          I do agree that war is the greatest of all contests, provided it is waged for the right reasons.

    3. avatar Brooklyn in da house says:

      You win dumb comment of the week.

      1. avatar John in AK says:

        Wow. How many Interwebs is that worth in trade?

        1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          You get one and a half Al Gores…

  4. avatar Excedrine says:

    Yet another violator of simple, easy-to-digest safety rules that even he can understand. That’s why negligent discharges are negligent. Darwin awards for all of them, I swear.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      He didn’t permanently remove himself from the shallow end of the gene pool he resides in.

      Hence, he’s no Darwin Award.

      1. avatar Jim says:

        Now if the shot had removed the family jewels, then a Darwin may have been appropriate.

  5. avatar Dark says:

    Media MMA is way overdone. It sucks this guy shot himself, but that’s what he gets for not following the four fucking rules. Also
    How the HELL do you not know to field strip a gun before cleaning it?

  6. avatar Piet Padkos says:

    We need common sense laws to regulate the amount of hits people can take to the head.

    If he took it less in the face, maybe this wouldn’t have happened.

    He broke three rules of gun safety. That’s 2.5 too many for him to remember! Can’t we make these things simpler to use?

  7. avatar Michael Nieto says:

    A lot of bigotry in this comments section the only rational criticism here is to say ALWAYS follow the 4 rules

    1. avatar John in AK says:

      Um, is it bigotry against violent people with Neanderthal brows, or people who beat the sh*t out of other people for money, or people who let other people beat the sh*t out of them for money, or against a**holes who like to watch the beating and are willing to pay for it, or a**holes who shoot themselves out of sheer stupidity, or just against a**holes in general?

      Please explain–I wouldn’t want to be a bigot against the wrong person.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “Please explain–I wouldn’t want to be a bigot against the wrong person.”

        In that case, endeavor to be very polite to everyone you come in contact with.

        1. avatar John in AK says:

          Sarcasm aside, that’s extremely good advice. I try to practice it religiously.

  8. avatar Gunr says:

    I can just hear the mothers saying “Those darn Glock’s, that’s how they are! They just go off without warning, get rid of them!”

    1. avatar Big Blue says:

      Good luck with that. Everyone knows Glocks are magical plastic wonder guns that are impossible to detect.

      1. avatar S.CROCK says:

        Are you referring to the ghost GLOCK model?

        1. avatar John in AK says:

          That would be the Model 7. It’s made of ceramic (pronounced SER-a-mick), and is only available to a very limited set of people with special skill sets. They come in .50/80 Webley-Vickers, and the cartridges are pre-loaded into the 30-round magazines: When they’re empty, you throw them away along with the fired cases which are automatically re-inserted in the magazine after they are fired. Naturally, the barrels of the Model 7 are unrifled, so that the bullets are untraceable.

  9. avatar Ralph says:

    I hear tell that there’s also a rule that specifies: Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target and you are ready to shoot.

    According to Cooper, this is the “Golden Rule.” It applies to every gun ever made since the dawn of time until this very minute — except for certain Perfect striker-fired pistols that actually require you to pull the trigger when your sights are not on the target and you have no intention of shooting.

    So the NDs just keep on coming because of this egregious design defect that spits in the face of the most important gun safety rule ever written.

    I don’t know if Joe “Diesel” Riggs (yeah, I’m a major MMA fan) was cleaning a “Perfection,” but it sounds more likely than not.

    1. avatar John in AK says:

      You might be surprised to find that, besides there being other designs that require a trigger pull on disassembly (both ‘Perfection’ patent violators, I’ll admit), there are major gun organisations (one starts with an I, ends with A, and has a D and a P in there as well, and the other is a major association of riflemen with national scope) that actually REQUIRE shooters to pull the trigger on an empty chamber as the end step in a thing called ‘Unload and Show Clear’? One group requires this be done before leaving a ‘stage,’ and other actually teaches this during a class for LEO instructors.

      Wow. Just, wow. So, rule #1 really means, ” . . . unless you’re really sure, and we need you to prove that it isn’t, so rule #3 doesn’t really mean that, either, because it’s OK to pull the trigger when you DON’T want the gun to fire if we say it’s OK because what the rule SHOULD say is, ‘if the muzzle is in a safe direction, it doesn’t MATTER if you pull the trigger because it’s not REALLY loaded.’ ” Or something.

      1. avatar Hasdrubal says:

        As part of one of the nearly infinite number of police departments that issue Glock pistols, I feel I should point out that every place I’ve ever been which wanted me to pull the trigger as part of a “showing clear” process provided a clearing barrel or other device to trap bullets, in the event that someone didn’t actually clear the gun prior to pulling the trigger. I haven’t been to any kind of competitive events in my life, but I would hope the IDPA guys do the same.

        How many regular folks who bought Glocks or other pistols requiring the same step in disassembly bought a clearing barrel/bullet trap to match? Or piled up an earthen berm in their yard, or did anything at all to have an actual safe direction in which to point their gun? I bet it’s not as many as the ones who shot themselves.

        1. avatar John in AK says:

          I’m sure that most Glock owners have no ‘clearing barrel,’ or convenient dirt mound, but instead rely on merely the safest direction they can manage. I simply do a multple ‘look and feel’ exercise, at least two repetitions, before sticking both fingers in both my ears while pulling the trigger in case I did an Immaculate Ejection.

          However, that pull of the trigger is exclusively for DISASSEMBLY,

        2. avatar John in AK says:

          I’m sure that most Glock owners have no ‘clearing barrel,’ or convenient dirt mound, but instead rely on merely the safest direction they can manage. I simply do a multiple ‘look and feel’ exercise, at least two repetitions, before sticking both fingers in both my ears while pulling the trigger, muzzle down, in case I did an Immaculate Ejection.

          However, that pull of the trigger is exclusively for DISASSEMBLY, not to prove that the gun is empty–which seems like the height of folly to teach someone to do often enough to become habit.

          This ‘Unload and Show Clear’ thing sounds like a good way to just blow off the Four Golden Rules while implying that ‘We KNOW you’re not gonna obey them four rules anyway, so we’re gonna make your gun idiot-proof and have you PROVE that you’re not as stupid as we think by pulling the trigger just on the off-chance that you ARE as stupid as we think, while training you to pull the trigger when you don’t intend to shoot, which is inherently unsafe, because it’s a safety thing.”

          I’ve seen the results of this kind of training; It tends to be both loud and hard on the furniture.

        3. avatar Hasdrubal says:

          To be honest, I couldn’t tell from the way your comment first mentioning the IDPA whether you supported the “show clear” thing or not- glad to see you don’t. As for the Glock thing, since a significant number of people have negligently shot themselves or their walls/furniture/cats while pulling the trigger for disassembly, I agree with Ralph that this should be considered a serious design flaw. I’m not actually sure we disagree on anything here, now that I see what you were trying to say.

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        The USAF used to require that for AP carriers, may still. They had a red barrel at the armory where the gun was supposed to be pointed to pull the trigger, when there was a group they stood in line with loaded guns until it was their turn.

      3. avatar John in AK says:

        No, Hasdrubal, I do not see a point of disagreement on this odd ‘show clear’ thing. On the contrary, I think that it might be the cause of some NDs that have been occurring in a competing company in my field.

        Since 2007, after going to Glocks from revolvers, my company (all of whom I taught, by the way, over 250 now) has yet suffer an ND–because we stress that pulling the trigger is a really good way to get the gun to fire, oddly enough. We also have a strict step-by-step loading and unloading procedure that has to be witnessed by another person reading the instructions. Tedious, but so far, no loud noises or unusual whistling sounds.

        Our competition, about the same size, has had at least four NDs, all in buildings, and at least one into a clearing station. I first believed that this was due to them getting early Glocks in the Combat Tupperware boxes with the central post that required the guns be uncocked to go back in them; Now I realize that somebody’s probably been teaching them ‘Unload and Show Clear.’ Now, it all makes sense. . .

  10. avatar former water walker says:

    +1 John in ak…it’s like expecting a pro football player to NOT be violent after he knocks out his girlfriend. Not a fan of MMA but prefer organized mayhem of football. Really this explanation is beyond silly.

  11. avatar Tile floor says:

    The only way you can have an accidental injury cleaning your gun is if you accidentally cut your hand on your cleaning supplies. Anything else is gross negligence

  12. avatar Cal says:

    I had a ND just last week. New pistol (PPQ) that I was/am still learning the manual of arms on. It was my own dang fault for it. I believed 100% that it was cleared. For some reason I missed the chamber. The round went through 3 walls and stopped/bounced of a washer lid in the next apartment. It missed my friend by 2ft.
    Lesson learned, triple check your gun when doing anything with it, my case was breaking in a new holster.
    Now I’m doubting if I should continue to own a gun.
    Don’t let a major screw up like a ND wreck things for you.

    1. avatar John in AK says:

      No. Now is NOT the time to give up; You have Seen the Elephant, and you have been given something that most people don’t get: A miraculous second chance.

      If you do not have a printed copy of the Four Rules, GET ONE. Put it on your wall or mirror in the bathroom, get one for the area where you keep or service firearms, say it out loud, memorize it, study it, understand it, and make it your life-long prayer and creed.

      Nobody is perfect; However, we have to strive our utmost to become so when it comes to guns.

  13. avatar Nak Muay says:

    Wow….a lot of hate from people against martial arts. I wonder what you think about Muay Thai? It’s way, way, way more violent than MMA, yet Thai people are some of the friendliest people you will ever meet. Or Judoka, Jujitsu players, Karateka, and wrestlers are some of the most humble and nice people you will ever meet. Do feel this way about our military? A lot of people have in the military have at one time pulled a trigger, pushed a button, or given a order that resulted in someone being killed. Remember we have an all volunteer military, they chose to be in just like people who spend their entire life training martial arts chose to get in the ring or cage. It is a drive, a calling, something written into our DNA that we cannot deny. I see many people on here calling martial arts barbaric and animalistic, MMA is MIXED MARTIAL ARTS! Yeah you get some losers with no respect and who just bring the image down the drain, that does not mean we are all neanderthals. Its always the coward that never had the guts to get into the ring and give it your all, risk failing or dying who comments. If you have never felt the tension..the uncertainty..the slightest touch of air/heat on your skin indicating an incoming strike..the satisfaction of months of hard work and sacrifice come to fruition..the reduction of choices in life to fight or flight..then you have no idea. Closest you can get is someone shooting at you (I’m not military, just from oceanside, if you lived there then you know what I mean). I am NAK MUAY and NAK MUAY is my soul, respect to you all.

    1. avatar John in AK says:

      There is a considerable difference in a martial art practiced as an ART, and one practiced for money and for spectacle, Sir. YOU seem to have got it right. I have no hatred for the martial ARTS, only contempt for those who turn them into arena spectacles glorifying violence for violence’s sake on a pay-per-view basis.

      1. avatar Nak Muay says:

        I couldn’t agree with you more, my coach always warned me about the parasites the hanger ons, as soon as you lose the leave.

      2. avatar Nak Muay says:

        I couldn’t agree with you more, my coach always warned me about the parasites, the hanger ons, as soon as you lose they leave.

        1. avatar John in AK says:

          Your coach seems to be an honest and honourable man. Good luck to you, Sir, in all of your endeavours.

  14. avatar Hank says:

    Glock…Sarah Brady couldn’t design a better gun for creating inadvertent discharges.

    1. avatar John in AK says:

      I dunno. . . at least with a Glock you absolutely, positively have to pull the trigger to get it to fire; I think that the Remington 700 is the champion record-holder for most discharges without the pulling of a trigger. Then there’s the Japanese Type 94 pistol that would fire if you pushed on the sear bar on the outside of the gun.

      I don’t think that it’s ‘inadvertent’ when a gun fires after one intentionally pulls the trigger, do you? That sounds pretty ‘advertent’ to me. Isn’t that how they are supposed to work? A gun that doesn’t fire when you pull the trigger would be rather decorative. . .

  15. Do you have any video of that? I’d want to find
    out more details.

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