Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge Story of the Day: While Holstered Edition

(courtesy northwestgeorgianews.com)

Deputy’s firearm discharges while serving a warrant, the headline at northwestgeorgianews.com reports. Damn inconvenient time for a firearm to decide to discharge wouldn’t you say? “At approximately 1315 hours this date, Deputies from the Floyd County Sheriff’s Office were attempting to serve a warrant at an address on Fortune Street in Rome, GA. During the course of interviewing individuals at the location, the [of course unnamed] Deputy’s service weapon discharged. At the time of the discharge the weapon was secured in the Deputy’s holster.” Now that is amazing! The gun discharged while holstered? Somebody call GLOCK, quick! Or the holster company! Or a demonic depossession specialist! “Once additional Supervisor’s arrived on the scene the incident was addressed and the scene cleared.” I wonder how arriving officers addressed the Deputy in question . . . [h/t Jeff]

comments

  1. avatar Model 31 says:

    I’m gonna have a talk with my gun about its sorry work ethic. Just sits there all day, never picks up or loads any rounds and sure doesn’t fire any off with some strong human encouragement/manipulation. Just a lazy gun.

  2. avatar JaxD says:

    If they can’t abbreviate their own state properly, (GA, not G.A.) how do we trust them with guns?

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      And then there is the extraneous apostrophe in “supervisor’s (which in context is plural not possessive).

    2. avatar StevieP65 says:

      No, no. You’ve got it all wrong.

      That stands for Guns and Ammo.

      1. avatar Gary Schulze says:

        Good one! That’s they’re story and their sticking to it. Yes, on purpose, because I thought certain people in G.A. needed the improper grammar to understand.

    3. avatar JasonM says:

      The original and the TTAG post both say “GA.”. The period indicates the end of a sentence. It’s correct.
      But “Supervisor’s” is wrong, for the apostrophe and the capital S.

      1. avatar Paul G. says:

        He meant the patch.

        1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          Haha. Shows what you get when your patches are made in China.

        2. avatar Jus Bill says:

          And designed by the functionally illiterate.

    4. avatar SteveInCO says:

      G.A.–clearly these are General Aviation cops.

  3. avatar Retired LEO says:

    I’ve seen it with striker fired pistols with 2 holsters safariland ALS open top design & blackhawks w’index finger releases. If the weapon has pressure down the lock nub will hit the trigger with a boom following. Nothing against strikers but you need a different holster than those 2. Just my .02.

    1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Gotta call B.S. as far as the Blackhawk Serpa. While I understand that holster’s controversial reputation, you can’t push down on the gun and make it fire, as long as you have the correct holster for the gun.

      1. avatar Retired LEO says:

        Guarantee it can be done I
        was standing next to him when it happened was using his pistol as an armrest pushed down to hard with a blackhawk level 2 serpa, bang resulting. I believe the safariland has been removed from IDPA use

        1. avatar Vhyrus says:

          I am also calling BS. I just put my P99 in single action mode and put it into my serpa holster. I braced it against a table and pushed down with both hands. Nothing. The P99 has one of the lightest triggers on the market. If it doesn’t go off then nothing will. Unless there was a defect with the holster or the pistol (or the user) I’m not buying it.

        2. avatar Retired LEO says:

          If BS=Brown Stain correct.
          Cops do not take care of the gear as a rule. The policy manuals I just rewrote for 2 depts. Specifically prohibit serpa locking holsters. Trigger pull on my SW99 is a hair over 5lbs. Take a flashlight & look inside where the lock is see the spring? Anything mechanical can fail.

    2. avatar Officer says:

      Serpa? Maybe, I wouldn’t know because I don’t use one. Using one would put me in the same league as people that think the XD is actually a good pistol.

      ALS? Total BS. You have never seen it – full stop. Any you have heard about are nonsense or some loser afraid to admit he or she doesn’t know how to holster their pistol. The locking mechanism on the ALS is at the ejection port, not the trigger guard.

      And let’s be honest, man…Nobody with your command of grammar is writing policy manuals.

      1. avatar Retired LEO says:

        Corrected should have been the SLS. Safariland open top SLS 7300 models thumb release locks in trigger guard the ALS system like the 6300 series locks on the ejection port. The level 3’s have both.
        I have 1 of each just looked to double check. They are prohibited in competition due to ND’s on the line. Grammar on a phone is a bit harder than on a full keyboard. Tell me are you command staff, what kind of officer? If you would like 27 pages on brand, bullet grain & powder specs. I’ll be happy to oblige. If you are police I guarantee someone in your department has a serpa. The XD is a polymer striker fired pistol same as a glock, M&P, and a dozen others. Glock is as safe as any other striker fired pistol as long as you realize it is a mechanical tool. It has to be cared for and used within the limits. The striker release (the thing in the middle of trigger) is not a safety, it is a striker release as it is precocked by racking the slide. f pressure is against it push down it goes boom.

        1. avatar Officer says:

          What are you talking about? SLS is hood release only.

          Yeah, people in my department have Serpas – and like I referenced before, they are the same people that think XDs are good pistols. I should add that none of them carry XDs, however – they failed too many of my department’s tests. I understand that when it comes to XDs, that’s par for the course. Suffice it to say: when I have to clear a building during a burg in progress, and one of them show up, I ask dispatch to send me another follow – I don’t want to get shot in the back of the head by a poser.

          I’m actually starting to feel bad for you.

        2. avatar lizzrd says:

          What? The trigger safety on a Glock just keeps the trigger from moving rearward until it’s depressed. And a Glock striker is only partially (and not functionally) cocked by racking the slide.

  4. avatar Sammy says:

    Ah, yea! That’s the ticket. It went off in the holster, just like I said.

  5. avatar Mark says:

    “…At the time of the discharge the weapon was secured in the Deputy’s holster…”

    Hmmmm. Me thinks someone’s not being forthcoming about exactly how this went down.

  6. avatar Jordan says:

    There has been some recent concern over the SERPA holster lately the locking mechanism has been known to rarely come in contact with the trigger, its worth looking into more.

    1. avatar Retired LEO says:

      It’s old fashion but thumb break holsters work as long as the trigger is covered. I have serpa, leather & nylon. Serpa especially in the thumb drive models is hard to get a correct grip on.

    2. avatar Joe Wright says:

      That is why a semi – auto pistol needs a manual safety. I won’t own one with jut a bugger hook safety.

      1. Yeah, then you have the luxury of complacency that us Glock users don’t enjoy. Must be nice to have your pistol do all the intelectual work for you. That is why we need Democrats to take care of us because we are to stupid to make good decisions. Hey! How about a law against guns without manual safeties?

        1. avatar lizzrd says:

          The trigger safety on a Glock is a manual safety. It’s just brilliantly placed where you can’t forget to release it.

        2. avatar SteveInCO says:

          … and brilliantly placed so that any inadvertent pull on the trigger will disengage it too.

          It’s not a safety, it’s an utterly pointless little trigger dingus.

        3. avatar tdiinva says:

          Wrong, the trigger release thingy is not a manual safety. A manual safety mechanixm is indpendent of the act required to fire the gun. You know like a thumb safety or a grip safety. A Glock is a well made, reliable and accurate firearm. Too bad that it is unsafe.

        4. avatar lizzrd says:

          By your strange and narrow definition of “safety”, you would be correct. The trigger safety on a Glock is released when the trigger is pulled correctly.

          I admit Glocks are a bad choice for people that can’t keep their fingers out of the trigger guard – and there seems to be more than a few of those.

        5. avatar tdiinva says:

          You must come from the same school engineering as the Douglas Aircraft designers who did the DC-10 the run the “redundant” hydraulic lines through the tail section where a failed compressor disk could sever them simultaneously.

          See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232

          The 1911 system developed by Browning is example of how real safeties work. A properly handled 1911 will always have at least one safety engaged until you have to pull the trigger. This technology is now in public domain. There is reason why a modern pistol cannot use some or all of this technology. Springfield manages to do it although I don’t like the interlock between the grip safety and the slide. It would be safer to be able to chamber or clear a round while leaving the safety engaged. i suspect most NDs happen when chamber or clearing a round.

        6. avatar lizzrd says:

          The problem is the 1911 will usually have the safety engaged not just until you need to pull the trigger, but when you need to pull the trigger. Again, I admit it’s harder to make a 1911 go bang.

          But this is an old argument and I don’t think either one of us is going to change our minds…

        7. avatar SteveInCO says:

          “Springfield manages to do it although I don’t like the interlock between the grip safety and the slide. It would be safer to be able to chamber or clear a round while leaving the safety engaged. i suspect most NDs happen when chamber or clearing a round.”

          The last (and only) Springfield XDs I handled, about two months ago, did NOT lock the slide while the grip safety was engaged (I.e., while I was NOT pressing it into the grip). So maybe they decided they agreed with you.

  7. avatar archangel187 says:

    The apostrophe in supervisors and unnecessary capitalization hurts. If you can’t pay your exorcist, is repossession a liability?

  8. avatar TheOtherDavid says:

    Comments disabled on their news site – I would love to have seen what fellow Georgians had to say about this one!

  9. avatar Ralph says:

    Fortunately, no dogs, babies or old people were injured during the service of this warrant — which makes it a cut above some, wouldn’t you say?

    1. avatar WV Cycling says:

      I’m proud of you for looking at the bright side of this situation!

    2. avatar BDub says:

      Hey! I’m still trying to get over reading about a warrant being served that didn’t involve a tactical entry by SWAT!

    3. avatar ThomasR says:

      Yeah Ralph; this references also BDub’s comment. It was because it wasn’t Swat involved that the only thing shot, injured, burned or killed was some flooring.

  10. avatar Paul G. says:

    Time to issue 10 round mags kept in their shirt pockets….it beats one round a la Barney Fife!!

    1. avatar Rick says:

      Either that or only chamber a round upon drawing a la Israelis.

      1. avatar Paul G. says:

        Did I rack the slide after putting in my mag, or not? Do ya feel lucky punk?

    2. avatar John Galt says:

      Barney’s Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge Training Lesson

    3. avatar Ken says:

      I’m not so sure that today’s cops should even have one round in their shirt pocket. Like Barney they are cowards at heart who will do anything to look big and powerful, no matter what might happen to the innocent people they are supposed to be protecting. Accidents waiting to happen. Perhaps they should have single shot rifles locked in the trunk. They might do a little less damage that way.

  11. avatar Avid Reader says:

    “I wonder how arriving officers addressed the Deputy in question . . . ”

    I would imagine it started with “WTF. . .”

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Or, maybe, “OH NO! Not AGAIN!

  12. avatar rammerjammer says:

    Stories like this are exactly why the media must scrutinize law enforcement. Yes they’re mostly good guys and gals but they above all must be under the microscope and be treated the same as average citizens when they act criminally or with negligence.

    Keep it up TTAG and don’t take any crap from the boys in blue who can’t take the criticism.

  13. avatar C says:

    Somebody call Kenny Loggins.

  14. avatar mike says:

    Isn’t kinda hot out to be wearing jackets/sweaters with waist strings?!

  15. avatar hardlife_nef says:

    I guess thats what I’ve been doing wrong all this time. I’ve had a glock brand glock (condition 1) just sitting on a table for about a year now and nothing. Stupid me, I should have has it holstered.

    1. avatar Piet Padkos says:

      Condition 1 in cocked and locked. A Glock with no manual safety doesn’t count, unless you had a manual safety installed. Glocks are probably closer to condition 2, but they’re striker fired so I’m not too sure.

      1. avatar Piet Padkos says:

        Condition 1 ‘is’ cocked and locked. Damn thing won’t let me edit.

  16. avatar Jay1987 says:

    Unless each supervisor was R. Lee Ermey in Full Metal Jacket persona goin at full bore & drunk / belligerent while rollin the Deputy till he puked then made him pick it up and put it in his pocket while signing papers to lose half a months pay and take 42.7 trillion hours of extra duties he got off waaaay too easy.

  17. avatar DBM says:

    Cops like to lean on their pistols to intimidate people. To bad he didn’t shoot himself in the foot or leg.

  18. avatar tdiinva says:

    Regardless of how the gun decided to go off I note it is another Glock ND. Why am not surprised. A 1911 with thumb safety disengaged is safer than a Glock. How many Glock NDs do we have to see before people understand that the Glock safe action system isn’t safe. You want a ready to plastic gun get a Springfield.

    1. avatar lizzrd says:

      Where does it say it was a Glock?

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        “…The gun discharged while holstered? Somebody call GLOCK…”

        That would imply that is was a Glock don’t you think?

        1. avatar lizzrd says:

          You’re quoting a smart-ass comment by the poster, not the article. It doesn’t state what brand it was as far as I can see.

        2. avatar tdiinva says:

          Robert is no ordinary poster. He is sin quo non of gun bloggers. Unless Robert clarifies that GLOCK comment I have go on the assumption that it was a Glock.

          Edit: And the BORG have verified that the Department uses Glocks.

        3. avatar Another Robert says:

          As long as we’re on a grammar binge in this thread, I think that’s “sine qua non”…

        4. avatar tdiinva says:

          Given Robert’s marital record perhaps sin is more appropirate.

  19. avatar k says:

    to DBM

    I dont know how they do it at your agency( i assume your a LEO since you assume to know what they like to do and are stating opinion like its fact), but no one here, or anyone i know leans on thier gun to intimidate people. when your wearing 20 plus pounds of duty belt and gear, unfortunatly your hand or hands are more than likely going to rest on a weapon unless your crossing your arms.

    1. avatar JB says:

      “…no one here, or anyone i know leans on thier gun to intimidate people…”

      “…your hand or hands are more than likely going to rest on a weapon…”

      derp.

  20. avatar Ing says:

    The headline says the *firearm* was serving the warrant when the discharge happened.

  21. avatar Scrubula says:

    And we wonder why this keeps happening…
    I know many LEOs here are proficient in firearms and stand out from the rest, but when police are only required to fire a box of ammo a year, there are bound to be ones that don’t even remember the basics of firearm safety.
    And to think almost all gun control laws have police carve-outs because they are somehow safer…

  22. avatar Big blue says:

    Given glocks are extremely common with LE, the mere fact that it is a glock is not necessarily indicative of a failure. You’d expect the most common item to have the greatest number of failures If they all had roughly the same failure rate. Truly unremarkable.

    It’s like saying that Toyotas are particularly dangerous because they’re one of the leading vehicles involved in crashes. No, there are just a lot of them out there.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      You could make that case but I think there is more going on here. Glock PR has made a lot of people complacent about safety and trigger discipline. The labeling the trigger mechanism as a “safe action” is false advertising. The safety mechanism is not independent of the mechanism to make the gun fire. Therefore there is no safety. A thumb or grip safety are both independent of the firing mechanism. It makes the gun safer.

      I also think that the modern safety triggers have caused a decline in user trigger discipline. Safety rules three and four work together. Know you target and what is beyond and keep your finger off the trigger until you have acquired your target are really two side to the safety coin. You should not have your finger on the trigger until you intend to shoot. That is what annoys me when I hear people claim that a 1911 or any short single trigger is hard not to fire when things get hot. I agree with that statement if you have poor discipline. But if you learn to keep your finger outside the trigger guard, parallel to the slide until you intend to fire like you are supposed than it doesn’t matter what kind of trigger you have. If your instinct is to place your finger on the trigger and rely on the slightly longer pull of a Glock type trigger I guarantee you that 95 out of 100 you will pull it regardless of the validity of the target. With proper trigger discipline you will not fire at the wrong target 95 out of 100 with a short single action trigger.

      1. avatar SteveInCO says:

        “The safety mechanism is not independent of the mechanism to make the gun fire. Therefore there is no safety.”

        Absolutely, 100 percent true. To be sure, there are “firing pin block” type safeties inside a Glock that ensure the striker won’t move unless the trigger is pulled, but a safety in this sense of the term (“manual safety”) prevents the trigger from doing anything when pulled on (either by locking the trigger in place (a la the 1911 and CZ-75) or disconnecting it from the mechanism (a la the Beretta 92) or perhaps even both). The Glock trigger dingus is disengaged by the very act of pulling the trigger so it CANNOT under any circumstances (other than very tangential contact with the trigger) prevent the trigger from operating on the firing mechanism when pulled by mistake.

        Calling the Glock trigger dingus a “safety” is either ignorance or simply a damned lie.

  23. avatar Hannibal says:

    It would not be the first time a poorly constructed or maintained holster has caused a discharge, though rare… more often it’s a piece of loose garment that gets stuck in just the right (er… wrong) place.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      The thing reads like he was not touching the rig, it just “went off”. And they are NEVER going to tell anybody what actually happened. Because that was not it.

  24. avatar borg says:

    A gun that is mechanically defective such as one that goes of without pressing the trigger can be truly described as accidental discharge since the mechanical defect is what causes the gun to go off instead of the usual negligence.

  25. avatar borg says:

    If the holster is to blame they should consider replacing all their holsters from that line to prevent similar incidents in the future. If it is the gun that is the culprit than they need to look into getting a better gun.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      And if the Doofus was the culprit?

  26. avatar TT says:

    I’m guessing the pistol sensed the presence of a nearby dog and couldn’t help itself.

  27. avatar Bob says:

    Reporters need to start asking what the make and model of the deputy’s gun is. They should also ask if the gun was broken or had some sort of defects since it “just went off.” Then start asking if everyone at that department has the same gun will those guns be inspected to see if they’re not broken to. If it’s the gun’s fault then there should be a lot of questions about the quality of firearms the deputies are carrying.

    1. avatar Another Robert says:

      I thought as far as reporters are concerned they are all Glocks–unless they are AR15s…

    2. avatar T.G. says:

      Are you suggesting that reporters start actually investigating news they report on and not just copying releases from other sources? Like actually ask questions and think and stuff? Is that even legal? I mean can they even do that anymore?

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Hey! Backdoor firearms education! Can’t hurt.

  28. avatar borg says:

    I found out that they carry Glocks from here
    http://glock.pro/law-enforcement/24-local-pds-carrying-glocks-9.html
    on post number 84 which happens to be the fourth post from the top.

  29. avatar borg says:

    The holster may be to blame at least partially if it is in a poor state especially if leather. If the Sheriffs office issued the holster they may share the blame if the holster is partly to blame for the incident.

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