The North Carolina State Highway Patrol (NCSHP) are tooling-up with the SIG SAUER P226 in .357SIG. Given that the NCSHP has 1600 sworn officers, the order’s probably around 2k guns. SIG’s press release (after the jump) attributes the agency’s selection to the pistol’s “reliability, accuracy and durability.” These days, most all polymer pistols can make that claim; with proper maintenance, the minor variations in performance probably aren’t mission critical. What is important: customer service, price and, in this case, the round. “For law enforcement officers who work around vehicles and safety glass, the .357SIG is a fantastic choice for a duty pistol caliber,” said Tom Jankiewicz, Executive Director of Law Enforcement Sales. In other words, the round’s rep for barrier penetration is key. I wonder if the cartridge – producing what Hickock45 calls “significantly increased blast” – beats up a gun as much as .40 cal . . .

NEWINGTON, N.H. – SIG SAUER is pleased to announced that the P226, chambered in .357SIG, has been selected as the new duty pistol of the North Carolina State Highway Patrol.

After extensive testing, the P226 came out on top for its reliability, accuracy, and durability. The .357SIG cartridge provides the NCSHP troopers with enhanced barrier penetration, which is a key concern for highway patrol duties.

“For law enforcement officers who work around vehicles and safety glass, the .357SIG is a fantastic choice for a duty pistol caliber,” said Tom Jankiewicz, Executive Director of Law Enforcement Sales.

“We’re extremely proud to add an agency with the legacy associated with the North Carolina State Highway Patrol to the SIG SAUER family.”
Founded in 1929, the NCSHP has more than 1,600 sworn troopers, covering more than 78,000 miles of roadway. SIG SAUER will deliver 1,800 P226 handguns to the agency.

110 Responses to North Carolina State Highway Patrol Buy SIG SAUER P226 in .357SIG

  1. Isn’t .357sig expensive and in short supply? I’ve never shot it but I sure don’t see it my local Cabelas. Oh well it’s not my $. This does seem odd-wouldn’t 40 or 10mm be a better choice? And did someone grease a few palms?

    • price per round for .357sig (around .35/rnd for cheap target loads) is higher than .40 or 9mm (around .22/rnd) but lower than .357 mag or 10mm (around .42/rnd). Give or take a few pennies on large quantities and shipping costs.

      IMO Whether it’s “worth it” or not depends on what they end up buying as a defense load (not target load). If they end up using “light” or managed recoil versions, then like the 10mm, they probably just ought to go with 9mm or .40 and not waste money.

      • The real reason to adopt the 10mm is choice: A very wide range of loads can be chambered from easy shooting loads to full hunting loads. Like the 357 mag, which you can downsize to .38 special if you really need to. Instead agencies are singularly focused on buying something that is one size fits all. Most govt agencies are against choice.

        • They actually go with the latest F.B.I. research paper. & What is on bid. I would rather carry a 10mm than a .40. To me its not as painful, but I also started with a .357 model 19 158gr jhp. 9mm in current ammo is as effective as a .40. I’d rather see monthly or even quarterly range time instead of the 50 rounds annual qualify. More range time is needed in law enforcement. I worked on an officers glock last week. It had never been cleaned, broken firing pin & he had never been shown how to take it down to clean. Had 250 rounds fired never cleaned. Officers don’t want to spend time on the range unless it’s paid then complain ineffective caliber. It’s your life go burn some rounds & practice.

        • But they do not go with FBI analysis because the FBI has a monopoly on common sense or research, they do it because they are liability-averse and just want to point to something to get them out of a lawsuit in case something goes south. They hate choice, not so much as a philosophy, but as a legal-risk-averse strategy.

          I 100% agree with you, range time is far more important. 50 rounds at a paper target once a year feels very unprepared.

      • A lot of the “chick” troopers are more of a man than guys. It’s the F.B.I. agents men & women that could not handle 10mm in the 1076 model. I’ve shot the 1006 & 1076 and I like them almost as much as my 4506’s. SC authorized calibers for L.E. are; .38spl, .357 mag, 9mm, .40s&w, .357sig, .45gap & .45acp. .380 is authorized as a caliber for back-up guns only. I understand that NC has the same calibers. Within the calibers bullet weight & powder charge are also specified. 00 buck in 2 3/4 shells & .223 & .308 non military ammo is the 12ga. & rifle ammo all must be SAAMI not NATO spec.

      • I live in NC, so I am paying for it.
        .357 Sig is a great round, It will penetrate car bodies and glass better than other rounds. The reason I don’t carry it is primarily price and availability. I have to pay for my ammo and I want to be able to find it.
        9mm offers good pricing, availability, good capacity in guns, reasonable recoil, and acceptable performance. A good all round cartridge.

    • It doesn’t take much “Greasing of palms” to get Highway Patrol officers to want to get back to the excellent terminal ballistics of the 125gr. JHP, and that was exactly what .357 Sig was designed to do.
      There are plenty of LEO’s that still pine for the 125 gr. JHP .357Mag, and the same loading in a .38Spl+P.
      It is an excellent cartridge to be carried for personal defense too.
      Take a look at S&W’s reissue of the Model 66 K-Frame revolver in .357 Mag. S&W wouldn’t have brought it back unless there was a huge demand for it!

      • I agree with you Clyde about the wheel gun .357 magnum. But in todays world where the wolves carry hi-cap auto pistols like Sig,Glock H&K just to name a few.I feel the L.E.O.’s out there would be out gunned,not by power but by capacity. When I was a rookie L.E.O. there was a S.C. state trooper named Mark Coates http://www.odmp.org/officer/420-trooper-mark-hunter-coates. He was carrying a .357 Magnum loaded with the dept issue .357 Magnum 145gr. Silver tips.(when I went back for my firearms instructor course I was given a box of this ammo by one of the academy FA instructors ,I still have it) .SEE VIDEO OF SHOOTING http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD578ESQAtU. Marks mother and I are good friends,we both belong unfortunately to C.O.P.S. which stands for Concerns Of Police Survivors. You see my LE partner was shot and killed during a traffic stop on 14 May 2007,He was not only my LE partner but my father-in-law as well. http://www.odmp.org/officer/18894-state-constable-robert-lee-bailey. Why I still think a wheel gun has a place in LE,I feel it should be for a backup only.

      • Exactly! Those Border Collies need to quit masquerading as Pit Bulls. Honestly Sarge, I thought it was a Pit Bull!

    • If any of ’em drive, I hope they keep their paws on the wheel…

      Until they get to the cat-house.

  2. Not only is the 357sig more expensive a round.
    Its going to eventually wear out 226 parts and smaller Troopers wont like its recoil or control one bit.
    The 226 is a fine weapon but 357sig isn’t as comfortable a round to shoot.
    After all its just a 40 case necked down to a smaller bullet.
    So more feet per second to deal with.

    Just my 2 cents right or wrong

    • If you can’t handle the recoil of .357sig out of a boat anchor p226, you should reconsider your career since chances are you can’t handle a lively perp.

      • Maybe switching certain PD’s (ahem NY) to gun/ammo combinations that are painful to shoot might be the answer to stopping cases where the bystanders are hit more times than the perps. Would the perpetual dog killers be as inclined to pull the trigger if they were going to get a sore wrist afterwards? (Think .357 or. 44 magnum rounds out of 2″ pocket guns).

        As a disabled person who lives in constant pain I find shooting any gun to be painful (which is why I don’t get to the range much). But, if it came to protecting my family (including my pets) or myself I would not hesitate.

        Considering how frequently Tazers are used to abuse people – and they have killed thousands of victims – it might not be a bad idea to have te grip exert a small shock when delivering the crippling voltage out of the front. Obviously not enough to m”ake them drop the weapon, but something equivalent to picking up a hot beverage without using the mug handle. (3 seconds is fine, but hanging on to the mug for half a minute hurts enough to make you want to put it down).

        If it saves just one life …

    • Mincing about the differences in recoil between .357SIG, .45, .40, and even 9mm is absurd. These are big-boy rounds and none of them is truly hurting the wrist of anyone of voting age or over 5 feet tall. Law enforcement is physical work and I’m sure there are plenty of uniformed meter maid positions for those that can’t handle a big-boy caliber.

      • Sounds about right. I’m against the entire philosophy of dumbing down intellectual requirements and wussing down physical requirements for any job. The job is the job and its requirements are its requirements. The real world doesn’t care about political correctness and won’t reciprocate your noble intentions by reducing requirements.

        Placing unqualified individuals in certain professions, or providing them with inadequate tools for the job, based on idealistic notions about how reality should be and not how it is, puts both them and those whom they serve in serious danger.

  3. IMO the .40 S&W is a pussycat compared to .357 SIG’s felt recoil and muzzle blast. The .357 SIG seems to do no more damage than the .40, but dayum is it loud! I would not want to fire that SIG without ear pro. At 40,000 PSI, it’s going to beat up springs, but they can be replaced.

    • NO and YES.No, I have a .357 barrel for my Glock 27 and can attest that the recoil of the .357 round is less than the 180 grain .40s. Yes, it is really loud.

  4. Good news I guess. If a few more departments start using it hopefully the price per round will come down. As it stands now target 357sig is hard to find, and winchester white box commands a price $.62 a round in my area. I have to order factory remanufactured rounds in bulk just to get the price down to $.40 ea. Even then most of the 357sig rounds I’ve seen are not full power loads, they are loaded to 9mm +p performance. Underwood loads them to full power, with tnoutdoors chronographs readings putting it in the low 1500 fps region. But they are mighty expensive.

    I just purchased a 357sig barrel for my M&P, and it didn’t like the plated flat nosed rounds I purchased for it. It made every round I fired from it had a severe tumble. I’m hoping I’ll have a little better experience with it once I get some fmjs in.

    Also, not trying to stir up trouble, but I’ve heard that when referring to the round, you don’t say “.357sig” with the “.”, because its actually .355 in diameter. The “357” at the front is more of marketing thing, trying to evoke memory of that more famous caliber. I often write it informally both ways, but I was curious if anyone had any idea of what the correct way to describe it would be.

    • I just wanted to apologize for the grammar in my post. Some of it comes from typing on a tablet with auto-correct/auto-complete, and others from my failure to double check my post for consistency.

    • Have you tried other loads out of the .357 barrel? Tumbling indicates that something is wrong with the barreling imparting spin on the bullet…Like someone sold you a .40 caliber barrel marked as a .357. However, if it’s just the one load/bullet design and it doesn’t replicate with other bullets, that’s probably not the problem.

      • Uh, no expert but I think that wouldn’t fire. The .40 headspaces on the case mouth, IIRC, the .357Sig would sink right on into the barrel and the firing pin wouldn’t get within 1/4 inch of the primer. Maybe somebody forgot to rifle the barrel? Or maybe the non-jacketed bullets are simply too soft, and rifling just shears off the lead like my first .357 Mag did 45 years ago, but I thought the industry was beyond that.

        • Could also be leaded if your shooting cast lead reloads or have been using laquer coated wolf or the like. Both fill up the rifling till it’s a smoothbore. Give it a really good cleaning with a bronze brush. See if it improves. Anytime you see accuracy drop off clean the weapon well see if it improves. Can’t hurt likely will help

  5. When I was new to owning my own firearms, having just got my first self-purchased gun in Jan ’10, I was very happy with my new Glock 23 (Gen 3) – and proud that I owned the gun my Dad had carried on the job for many years (Also a Glock 23 in .40 S&W). I learned on GlockTalk tons of info including the idea of the conversion barrel, and was amazing I could get a LWD 40-9 bbl , some Glock 9mm mags, and cheap ammo etc. for having fun. I wanted to DEFINITELY go with a .357SIG bbl as well because it would be so awesome yada yada yada… but then I did a little more research and figuring…

    .357SIG is significantly more money than .40 S&W. It’s not affordable at all, it’s a ‘designer’ caliber as far as price. It may have *some* performance advantages over .40 S&W but not that many and not that much. It’s biggest claim to fame is it’s barrier penetration advantage – it can go through car doors or windshields and denim jackets to get to a bad guy.

    Really not that big of a deal. It’s not that great as far as real, actual punching power. So when I thought, maybe it’s better for 4-legged creatures around the yard? Really not that big of a difference from .40 S&W. If you really want punching power you might as well look at 10mm. And where a .40 S&W Glock can go to 9mm or even .357SIG, and a .357SIG can go 40 or 9, a 10mm can be converted to .40 and other calibers… so I think I’d buy a 10mm before a .357 SIG.

  6. I wonder if the cartridge – producing what Hickock45 calls “significantly increased blast” – beats up a gun as much as .40 cal . . .

    Who cares. I’d rather the thug get beat up than me. In a pinch, I can buy a new gun. New life, not so much. Always carry the biggest punch you can both reliably and accurately handle.

      • I am totally worried about breaking a spring, that’s why I carry a BB gun.

        sarcasm off… breaking a spring (or other mechanical failure) can happen to any firearm, at any time. It can happen if you load a 9mm+P+ cartridge in a firearm not designed for it. Maybe the slide will fail to stop breaking your jaw. A revolver can have a weak hammer spring rendering your boolits blanks. click click click sh!+

        Potential mechanical failure is a reason to clean and inspect your firearm regularly, get range time with your self defense load, and have a backup plan, not a reason to choose a caliber lighter than than one you can reliably and accurately conceal and shoot.

        • Ya but if you are not loading your 9mm with +++p++ then you should be a lot less likely to wear it out then you would be with a .357 sig.

  7. I guess the guys on team FN winning 3 Gun matches with .40 didn’t get the memo that .40 is inferior to 9mm.
    Please continue to gobble up all the 9mm and stay away from the more powerful rounds like .40, .357 sig, and .45
    I laugh to myself whenever I hear guys whining they can’t find any 9mm.

    So how many rounds does it take of .40 and .357 Sig to break parts?

    People shoot 9mm for cheap target ammo. If you need to defend your life and family and there is a .357 on the table or a .38 you know what you would take

    • I’ll take the 38 if we are inside. Assuming we are running good SD ammo in both. Magnum cartridges are a bit too loud for indoor use. Even a low pressure round like the 38 will make your ears ring and ache (inside). Outdoors, going 357 (magnum or sig)

      • I’d bet one .357 round would damage my ears less than the number of 38 required to stop a BG. And that is what you’d need, if you pick the right ammo. One.

    • I wouldn’t call the .45acp a more powerful round than 9mm. In their original loadings, the 9mm 124 gr. got 1150fps from a 4 inch Luger for the German army while the .45acp launched a 230gr. at 850fps from a 5 inch 1911. That’s 364lb/ft vs 369lb/ft with the .45 being spotted an extra inch of barrel. Standard max pressure is 2/3 higher in 9mm. Granted if you uses the hottest +P loadings the .45 has a bit more juice, but most people aren’t.

  8. Just so you all know, NCSHP already uses .357 Sig in M&P handguns. They are not changing calibers, they are switching from Smith and Wesson to Sig. Why? NCSHP brass claims there are mechanical issues with the M&Ps. Here in NC, some of the Troopers on our forums have claimed it’s mostly because Troopers in general suck at taking care of their duty weapons. They get rained on, snowed on, and left in the leather holsters. When it comes time to shoot it, it malfunctions.

    My best guess? Just like always it’s about politics and backdoor deals.

    • You are correct. They went from a Sig P229 with a S&W .357 to the M&P’s they have now. All the Troopers I know loved the 229. I’ve carried Glocks as duty weapons my entire life, but my personal choice is Sig. It’s just a better balanced weapon for me. As far a caliber goes, we’re taught to shoot center mass & unload. I think being shot 13 times with ANYTHING is pretty much going to get the job done.

  9. Id day felt recoil w/ .357 SIG would be drastically more “comfortable” out of an metal gun then say out of a fitearm such as the Glock 32. Just my .02

  10. .357 sig is a very good caliber, recoil? Just practice. If you are the type of gun owner that goes to the range once a yr, then its not for you.

    • ‘If you are the type of gun owner that goes to the range once a yr, then its not for you.’

      Sounds like it’s not a good choice for cops then?

    • I really want the 50 GI to take off. We have magnum cartridges in all major calibers up to 50, but we don’t have a standard pressure 50.

  11. This is, and isn’t news. NCSHP has used 357 Sig for years, in several different guns (226, cougar, M&P). They have come full circle I guess. I think they had 226s originally. I suppose this means the M&PS in 357 Sig are out.

  12. You’d think by now that these police agencies would have figured out that the .9mm is, by far, the most lethal round out there.

    • If the 9mm is the best thing going, then WHY is the Army having a call for NEW TRAILS for a REPLACEMENT for the M9(A Beretta 9mm)- GUN AND CALIBER ?

        • No, Todd S said POINT (.) 9mm is the most lethal round. Do they not have irony where you’re from?

      • It’s an ongoing joke here about how ignorant journalists write about the .9mm ammo = 9/10 of 1 mm. (Think of tiny little bullets that a G.I. Joe action figure could use.)

  13. what’s news is that they are ditching the S&W M&P-.357 for the SIG after having issues with the M&P’s…

  14. I currently own Sig’s in both 357Sig and .40 S&W, I really can’t tell much difference where recoil is concern. The Sig round is a higher pressure round and I can understand the concern regarding parts breakage, however, I would prefer an all metal gun rather than a metal injected poly gun. Personal preference. I like the cartridge, it is controllable, powerful and if the NCHP is ordering Sig proprietary cartridges, available. Not a bad move in my estimation.

  15. Practice ammo in .357 SIG is about as expensive as practice ammo for .45 ACP, generally, with the latter being only a couple pennies cheaper. You also get more of them in the same-sized handgun than .45 ACP and it performs better in most all respects, too. My only concern would be the snappier recoil, and what the increased slide velocity does to the gun. I haven’t shot any .357 SIG myself, though, so I can’t really comment on that. I know the .40 S&W has some whip to it, for sure.

  16. Hey Robert, please watch the video you cite, he did say that .357 SIG has more blast THEN a .40.

    Not more blast LIKE a .40.

    40,000 PSI SAAMI RATING VS 35,000

    • This keyboard sucks, posted half way through.

      35000 for SW.

      40 is literally the same PSI as the 9mm according to SAAMI..

  17. Well this seems to be the post waiting for this question. Anybody know of a company makin 357Sig conversions for 1911s? I wanna try out the round before I drop cash on a new gun.

  18. 38Super has same power factor capability and no bottle neck case or proprietary caliber. Just more of my tax money wasted. If they want reliable, just buy wheel guns in 357mag. If I was a NC trooper I’d rather the wheel gun on my hip and an AR in the trunk.

    • Considering the well earned reputation police have for hitting their intended targets nearly 20% of the time they pull the trigger in anger you’re probably right. Put a 6 shooter on their hip and maybe they’ll learn to aim. Sadly their reputation with the M4/AR15 is no better. You’re constantly hearing stories of SWAT teams firing 250 rounds in order to hit the target once or twice.

  19. Dang guys cowboy up! If you can’t handle a snub 357mag or the 357sig maybe you should take up golf!

    • Or maybe folks can choose for themselves out of the many effective handgun rounds of their choice. Didn’t know caliber was a measure of masculinity.

      • Who said anything about masculinity? Project much???? Its about shooting and neither are all that fierce.

  20. They have been carrying .357sig for years. 10mm is not an approved round for law enforcement in either North or South Carolina. They carried the 229 a few years ago then went to M&P’s that wore out quick & the scores went down. More depts. in NC carry .357 sig than most states. After the .45gap went away SC went back to .40, more departments are going to the .45acp but slowly. Glad they went back to a metal frame weapon. Get longer service life than the polymer plus they have a number of sig armorer’s

  21. An NC State Police officer told me the .357 was “because we have to shoot through windshields and stuff.”
    For those of you who carry more than one gun, know that the NCSP carry at least three guns: Two on their belts and one in an ankle holster. Those are the ones I can see. I figure there’s another around somewhere.

    • So these are “car killer” bullets? Aren’t they illegal? Shouldn’t they be illegal? Oh the inhumanity of it! Think of all those poor defenseless Fords & Chevys…… (HEAVY sarcasm)
      On a more serious note, with police marksmanship being what it is (poor), I’d worry about these bullets penetrating more than car windshields, like nearby house walls, fences, and the like. I’m reminded of Joe Piscopo’s character in “Johnny Dangerous” commenting on his .88 magnum and how it can shoot through schools.

  22. Another swinging fashion trend in the pistol and caliber wars. In the overall scheme of things, handguns just are not a great option. Handguns as a man stopper can be an iffy thing as well. I have a 9mm SR9 which has the over capacity magazine. I am quite glad that it does as I lack faith in any one round stopping the usual honor roll thug. I have a little bit more faith in the 870 anchoring the gifted and talented thug.

    • Actually most NC state level agencies have used .357sig. for a number of years along with Sig pistols. They changed to M&P’s & have had problems since. I love older S&W’s but the new stuff seems lacking in QC.

  23. Sig Sauer is smart. Since the company is manufacturing it’s own ammo, they are able to wrap the price of gun, maintence, and NOW ammo into into a LE contract. I think it’s a win-win for Sig and NCSH.

  24. I view the .357 Sig as a solution in search of a problem.

    If someone wanted penetration, the original .357 Magnum has it in spades. This has been around since the 30’s. I guess cops would have to go back to revolvers, which might mean that they have to learn how to put rounds on target, but hey, WTF do I know? I’m a “civilian” who has to pay for his own ammo, so I learned how to do that “aim, then shoot” thing before I could grow a beard.

    If someone wanted mag capacity, the .38 Super or 9×23 Win would do the trick. The .38 Super has been around since the 1930’s as well.

    The problem, as I see it, is that the shouldered case of the .357 Sig complicates reloading, increasing the working of the brass and making the cost to shoot for IPSC or IDPA shooters higher than it needs to me. The shouldered case of the .357 Sig is another solution in search of a problem to solve.

    As it is, I almost never see the .357 Sig in non-LEO use. Only taxpayer-funded spendthrifts seem to like the round.

    As with most modern ballistic developments, if someone took the time to examine assumptions of past cartridges, test them against modern brass and firearms and use modern powders and projectiles, there would be no need for anything new. With modern powders, most rifle cartridges developed since the 7×57 are a moot point (until you get to a .338 WM or larger) and most pistol cartridges developed since the .357 Mag, .38 Super, .44 Special/.44 Mag, .41 Mag, 10mm, .45 Colt (in modern guns) or .45 ACP +P are moot as well.

    All this nonsense of new calibers in LEO weapons is just more taxpayer dollars, pissed down some new hole in the ground.

    • You know far more about the technical aspects of firearms than I do, DG, which is one of the major reasons why I make sure to read all of your posts. In the case of the .357 Sig, I thought the problem its development sought to address was simply replicating the .357 Magnum’s ballistics for a semi-auto handgun? That would give it more round capacity, magazine vs. cylinder, and quicker reloading, too.

  25. Two of my friends are instructors at the Beltsville, MD Secret Service training center, and see lots of .357 Sig caliber Sigs. And yes, the cartridge beats the guns up very quickly.

  26. Ballistically nearly identical to the old .38 super when loaded to original specs such as the Buffalo Bore loads. Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

  27. “Beats up guns”–yeah, if you fire it a hell of a lot. Often do most cops fire their gun INCLUDING range time?

    These guns will last many, many years.

    Aside from full power 10mm, the best barrier penetrating round found in a LE service gun.

  28. How long have they had their S&W M&Ps? Have they shot them to pieces already?
    They bought new guns because they had the money in the budget to buy new guns.
    The caliber/gun choice is because the gun that decides likes them.

    • Not sure of exact date into service I know they were budgeted in the 7/01/2010-6/30/2011 cycle Friend & I purchased
      2 of the sig 229 trade-ins. We had to redo the springs & we added .40 cal barrels. They have been great. I have a friend his M&P in 9mm spent more time in repair than carry he sold it swore to never buy another Smith gun again. I’ve run into people that have had problems with M&P’s lately. These are newer manufacture pistols. Either the quality control is in the trash or a batch of parts is bad. I have noticed a difference between the accuracy of the .45acp from the first ones to a current year mfg. Big difference & picky as a custom 1911. My old S&W .45s including the 1911 eat anything. No federal, or buffalo bore in the M&P. Everyone I know is going to glocks or 1911 & getting rid if M&P as they find buyers, not carrying as EDC unless police issued.

  29. What was their duty weapon before going to SIG? I myself would go with a Glock 17 9mm ,loaded with 124gr.+P Speer God Dot or Hornady 135 gr.+P Critical DUTY. The 9mm is a good round with the proper projectile and the Glock 17 has the reliability,easy to train on,and firepower needed on those lone dark highways in N.C.

    • M&P in .357sig. Before that they carried the Sig 229 in .357sig. They are going back to metal frames. They had reliability issues with the Smith. Talked w/a NC trooper today he’s happy to be going to metal frame. Says his M&P has been with the armorer more than any gun he’s ever shot. They went with the 226 to have more rounds and get them sooner. Some deal was worked because of the issues. Understand a non-disclosure agreement was signed as too exact details. I would take that to mean Smith is paying as the price of purchase would be required to disclose if taxpayers $$ were involved.

  30. I love my .357SIG. It’s a great round. Expensive; yes, but also a real powerhouse in a compact package. Kicks like a mule though (I mostly fire CorBons or Speer through mine). Anyone with a limp wrist will likely stovepipe casings (at least in mine. I have a Taurus PT957 and an old Croatian XD).

  31. Anyone remember this? http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/robert-farago/north-carolina-highway-patrol-ditches-2k-sw-mp-357-sigs/ . I would like to know if NCHP was able to get a full or partial refund for 2000 M&P 357’s purchased in 2009 that proved to be afflicted with reliability and failure issues.

    In spite of all the gossip, BS, and misinformation about the 357 Sig round, performance has proven extremely effective in real world law enforcement armed encounters. In spite of the fact that retailers often price gouge for the less commercially popular 357 Sig, the per round price for law enforcement agency bulk ammunition purchases of 357 Sig duty and practice ammo are comparable to 40 S&W.

    The perfect example for proven reliability is in Texas where DPS has issued and carried the Sig P226 and P229 in 357 Sig for nearly 20 years with none of the problems the 357 Sig naysayers predicted and continue to obsess over. Same story with Departments issuing Glock 31’s, no problems with the reliable and effective 357 Sig round.

    Bean counters might love 9mm ammo for the price, but the terminal ballistic performance of 9mm duty ammo has never and will never match the terminal ballistic performance of 357 Sig duty ammo. NCHP and many other agencies wisely use 357 Sig as a duty round because it has a proven law enforcement track record and the round does exactly what it was designed to due, efficiently and consistently penetrate in a variety of conditions leaving a massive wound channel in soft tissue to end the fight.

    • And if all of those criteria were important, then law enforcement agencies would have stuck with .357 Magnum as their round of choice.

      • Dyspeptic, I don’t know if you simply don’t know, forgot, or just choose to be oblivious to the reasons law enforcement transitioned from wheel guns to semi-auto’s, and how the 357 Sig eventually figured into that transition, so here’s a history lesson on what you don’t know, forgot, and/or refuse to acknowledge.

        Beginning in the mid to late 80’s, law enforcement recognized that modern reliable semi-autos available from Beretta, Sig Sauer, and Glock offered advantages over revolvers that could no longer be ignored. The modern semi-autos increased the amount of ammunition carried in a lighter gun with less recoil, less muzzle flash, and the extremely important advantage to reload under stress much faster and efficiently compared to a revolver.

        At first the modern semi-autos were offered in either 9mm or 45ACP, both of which had advantages and disadvantages, but neither equaled or exceeded the gold standard terminal ballistic capability of a .357 125gr jhp at over 1300fps. The 10mm auto which offered 41 magnum power in a semi-auto pistol was adopted by the FBI in 1989, and the optimum level of reduced 10mm potency was settled on with the arrival of the 40 S&W cartridge in 1990.

        While the then new 40 S&W duty ammunition offered 9mm double stack mag capacity with excellent terminal ballistic performance, many in law enforcement still wanted a modern semi-auto pistol that packed the punch of the proven 357 magnum round.

        In 1994 Sig developed the 357 Sig cartridge by necking down the 40 S&W case to a .355 bullet, so a more accurate description of the round would be 9mm magnum, but for marketing purposes Sig opted to call the new cartridge 357 Sig since the goal of a semi-auto of delivering a 125gr projectile at over 1300 fps had been accomplished.

        Beginning around 1996 the 357 Sig was adopted by a minority but still substantial number of LE agencies which is true to this day. The 40 S&W emerged as and remains the leading law enforcement issue cartridge in the U.S.

        I don’t knock any agency or individual with a preference for 40 S&W or 45 ACP over 357 Sig, and the retail cost of ammo is a valid point, but your contention; “if all of those criteria were important, then law enforcement agencies would have stuck with .357 Magnum as their round of choice”; is simply an uninformed or misinformed assertion.

        No one can reasonably or logically argue that a semi-auto in 357 Sig offering equal terminal ballistics, weighing half a pound less, more than twice the ammunition capacity, less recoil, and less muzzle flash is not preferable and vastly superior to the now antiquated 357 magnum revolver for law enforcement duty carry.

        Equally uninformed or misinformed is your earlier contention “All this nonsense of new calibers in LEO weapons”, as I previously pointed out, the Sig 357 cartridge was introduced in 1994, that’s 20 years ago, hardly a “new caliber”, so now you know.

  32. Ok, all the 357sig myths are back again.
    Its muzzle blast, in the same gun, is greater than 9mm, but is still VERY manageable.
    Its recoil is little more than a medium-hot 9mm.
    Duty 357sig recoil and muzzle flip are lower than duty .40.
    “Chicks” definitely CAN handle it. I taught a couple dozen of them in my ten years of carrying and teaching the 357sig, in P229.
    357 sig is inherently accurate and flat-shooting, and measurably more accurate then .40 in the same gun (drop in barrels). High-level shooters using a rest can shoot 357sig more accurately than the .40, at 25 yrds. (we tested it with about a dozen instructors).
    357sig is the most reliable feeding round in pistols.
    Additionally, that nail-driving accuracy increases shooter confidence, and shooter confidence is critical in gunfights.
    357sig is more expensive, but that’s merely a function of market — 40 was expensive too, when it was first introduced, before most LE bought it. If 357sig was more commonly adopted by LE or especially the mil, it would probably be as cheap as 40 is today, if not cheaper.
    For everyone who thinks the blast, recoil and flip are much higher in 357sig, in the same gun model and frame, consider this — 357sig is nothing more than a hot 9mm. It’s a .355 bullet driven to 1350 fps. Nothing more, nothing less.

    • Then if a .357SIG is nothing but a hoppedup 9mm,then why not go with a Glock 17 using Winchester Ranger 127gr.+P+?

  33. The .357sig is an excellent selection. The days of full bore .357 magnum duty weapons are long gone, and the .357sig does give you similar ballistic results with the 125 gr loading. Recoil is not pleasant but is certainly not that bad. I carry and shoot well a glock 33,and for a firearm this size it handles well with suck a stout round. The idea here is to give the officers as much fire power as we can and have it be effective at the same time.

  34. Sig 226 in .357 Sig with 125 gr. Speer Gold Dots traveling at 1350 fps and 506 ft.lbs. of energy is a great combo. 12 + 1 in a flush magazine and a couple of 15 round back up mags from mec-gar complete the perfect package.

    The Sig 229 in this caliber is also a great shooter. 12 + 1 and 14 + 1 in extra mags.

    I recently dropped in a .357 Sig barrel in an XD-M .40 and I now have 16 + 1 out of a 4 1/2 inch barrel. Its a match grade shooter and the perfect polymer, striker pistol.

    Same for a 5 inch barrel Beretta 96. 12 + 1 and 15.

    Large sized .357 Sig caliber pistols are the best road pistols around.

    Recoil is not as snappy as a mid weight .40 but rather a sort of push. Anyway, the best way to tame recoil is to practice, practice and practice with your chosen caliber. Recoil becomes a non-issue with practice… and in a fight it is the last thing you will think about!

    I was in spec ops for 16 years. I started shooting at 15 and at 67 I have shot everything there is to shoot. I have never fought with a .357 Sig cal pistol. In my active days I used to carry both a 1911 and a Browning High Power… at the same time. I think a .357 Sig would have handled it all back then.

    If I had to choose one cartridge for the rest of my days it would be .357 Sig.

    Hope this helps.

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