Self-Defense Tip: Attack!

Crime scene- Deleware Valley Sports Center (courtresy philly.com)

“They were both leaving the gun range, which was open for business at the time of the shooting, when a man and a woman, both armed with handguns, approached them in the parking lot and demanded their firearms, wallets and cell phones,” philly.com reports, unloading the last of the week’s supply of commas. “The witness told police that both he and his friend complied, handing over seven guns, their wallets and phones, but that the male assailant shot the 67-year-old man anyway, hitting him in the groin and critically wounding him. The pair then fled east on Geiger in a dark-colored car with tinted windows.” Wow. Who expects . . .

to be robbed at gun point at a gun range? Well, you and me, now. But criminals are clever. Ish. Clever enough to know that it’s best to rob someone by surprise (engraved invitations cost a fortune). And while we advise everyone to maintain situational awareness at all times, good luck with that.

Truth be told, it’s entirely possible to be caught on the proverbial hop, staring at the business end of a gun, whose holder or holders (hopefully not including Eric) demand immediate compliance. Never draw on a drawn gun? Yes, except if you absolutely have to. Or want to. If not, you have very few options.

It’s best to think of compliance as a holding pattern. A temporal gap between the beginning and the end of an assault that may offer you a chance to counter-attack. May. ‘Cause you don’t know. You may be outnumbered, out-gunned and out-maneuvered. But this much is true: unless you’re actively looking for an opportunity to attack, chances are you’re going to miss it.

Remember: compliance is a complicated business. In this case, the victims had to transfer firearms, wallets and cell phones to the bad guys. That puts the victims in close proximity to their assailants. Close enough to attack? Dunno. There were two ‘scrotes. Chances are one covered the good guys while they surrendered their belongings. Without a detailed diagram showing what happened when, and maybe even then, it’s impossible to know what chance the groin-shot guy had to avoid his life-threatening injury.

I know this though: I sure wouldn’t want to get whacked in the head by a gun case. Done properly, a gun case to the head may have liberated some space and time in which one of the good guys could have drawn a weapon and fired. Assuming one or both were carrying concealed. ALWAYS carry a concealed gun at a gun range, even while shooting. Just sayin’ . . .

Again, there are way too many unknown variables to second-guess this incident – including the victims’ strength and reflexes. Again, there may have been nothing the victims could have done to stop the robbers from shooting them. But their experience underlines my central point: look for an opportunity to attack.

Have an attack mindset even as you passively comply with your attackers. Look to launch. Speed, surprise and violence of action are your friends. Because there’s no guarantee that your attackers will reward compliance by leaving you unmolested or, for that matter, alive. No matter what the antis say. [h/t Tyler Kee]

comments

  1. avatar ST says:

    Way I see it, if someone’s pointing a gun at you, they’ve decided to use it already. It’s only a question of when they’ll shoot-so you may as well go out on your schedule instead of theirs.

  2. avatar Wow says:

    Call me stupid, but this is why I always have my CC on me at the range…even if I don’t plan to shoot it…and if they wanted my guns, they’d have to kill me first…and they best have a big caliber because I’m going to have my hands around their throat if I’m unarmed and it’ll take a few rounds into me to stop me…

    1. avatar Tim McNabb says:

      I shoot at a gated gun range, but I still keep my CC on me at all times.

    2. avatar Random_Commenter says:

      I live (unfortunately) in a “blue” state called The Peoples Republic of Maryland. As soon as you step off the range, you cannot carry, concealed or otherwise, unless you are a LEO of course. The firearm must be separately “secured” from the ammo, yada, yada, yada.

      The right of self defense is NOT in the state constitution. I even have the duty to retreat in my own home. I am moving (as soon as I win the Lottery).

      What I am saying is, I would have gotten shot, too.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        MOVE!

    3. At my range, and every range I have ever visited, they clearly post “No loaded weapons may be brought into this building”. Do I comply with this policy? Never. I carry my AR in unloaded but my concealed pistol is always loaded. I have separate magazines for defensive use and training use. After training, I replace the defensive magazine and chamber a round before exiting the range. I have often thought that a gun range parking lot would be a place to get robbed because of the unloaded gun policy and the fact that the robber at least knows you have something of value, guns.

      1. avatar A samurai says:

        All this talk of carrying loaded guns OUT of a cold range makes me remember all the times some guy has flagged me trying to put his guns away with horror. And that’s just the times I have noticed. I need to watch out more. Somehow concealed carrying in a gun that stays concealed the whole time seems so much safer.

        And faster to draw, then an AR-15 in a gun case.

  3. avatar freezercharlie says:

    I always carry while cleaning a gun and going to and from a range, because I’ve always thought it would be pretty embarrassing to get attacked and be defenseless, but holding a useless weapon.

    1. avatar DJ9 says:

      This. ^^

      I’ve always told my friends, when they asked why I always carried a self-defense gun while going to and from the range, that I didn’t want to be the guy that was robbed of his guns — at knifepoint.

      THAT would be embarrassing, to say the least.

      But I also want to do my best to make sure that my guns will never be stolen and then used to harm others.

  4. avatar JAS says:

    Tough situation, Do or die kind of stuff. SA is the key. If someone I do not know is coming towards me in any parking lot and getting close to conversation space, It’s condition red. Hand on my weapon (this is where pocket .380s are cool because you are not drawing.) and the second they start showing a weapon then it’s WWZ.

  5. avatar Taylor TX says:

    Its hard to carry concealed while shooting if Im going to shoot my carry gun, catch 22 like a bitch TTAG style. Back up gun but then again …

    1. avatar Theone says:

      I CC a full sized all metal gun when ever I go to the range. If they ever ask me to leave because I have a loaded gun on the line, then I simply will not go back to that range. There was another story that I think TTAG posted where a guy told his son not to shoot all of his ammo at the range because you never know what may happen. I don’t know nore trust anyone at the range. I have also had friends get muzzled swept and followed at a range. That friend had to draw an AR on them to get them to quit and go away. Just because you are at a range surrounded by guns doesn’t mean you should feel safe.

      From the picture this also looks like it may have happened “after hours.” If you ever go to a range that is open late, you better be CCing. Shoot, I would even OC a loaded rifle to my car, but that is legal where I live so.

  6. avatar Ronaldo_Ignacio says:

    Many if not most ranges are cold ranges, which maked entering them and exiting them essentially gun free zones.

    What happens in gun free zones?

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      I’ve shot at cold ranges. I carried some guns in cases to show to the RSO, and a concealed pistol which I showed to nobody.

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        ^ This.

    2. avatar ThomasR says:

      If it’s concealed; what someone doesn’t know won’t hurt ’em; until you need to hurt ’em.

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        ^ And this!

    3. avatar Theone says:

      I doubt most sensible ranges would mind if you are legally CCing. The main reason they want a cold range is because people do stupid stuff. Doesn’t take much to notice this, just look at all of the holes in the walls at your range.

      One range I go to even has all of its employees OC on premise. I thought that was cool the first time I went.

      If you go to a range and they do ever find out that you are CCing and they ask you to leave, just don’t go back. That is not a gun range you want to support.

    4. avatar Paul W. says:

      Ours has a sign saying all weapons must be holstered and concealed or cased and empty. I like that approach because I have seen some real dumbass stuff (sadly).

    5. avatar 1911A1 says:

      Those signs are there to protect the range from legal liability if there’s an ND. Most ranges around here know you’re carrying and expect you to be adult about it. Nothing has ever been said to me, and I’ve never seen anyone asked.

  7. avatar Charles5 says:

    I always carry a concealed, loaded weapon with me at the range, both while shooting and entering and exiting. If I am at a range that “allows” it, I have a full size pistol loaded in an OWB holster the whole time too.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Yup. It’s the one that doesn’t get shot. It’s always hot.

  8. avatar JeffR says:

    Don’t know about that. Had a gun pointed at my face during a mugging that wasn’t fired. I think back about that day every once in awhile. Even if I carried back then, no way that I would have tried to draw my weapon. (Meant as a reply to ST.)

    1. avatar DJ9 says:

      Yeah, I suppose that happens every now and then.

      Too bad we can’t get input from the folks who have had a gun pointed at their face during a mugging, that WAS fired. They might have a different opinion on the subject…

    2. avatar Jay Williams says:

      They must not’ve been within arm’s reach.

  9. avatar Another Robert says:

    The cops in Ed McBain’s 87th Precinct novels had a rule for this type of situation (i.e. when someone got the drop on them): “It never gets better, it always gets worse.” Obviously, given the preceding post, not always true. But I still think it’s probably the best assumption. Which is to say as I sit here, I’m kinda with ST. Who knows if it actually happens, tho.

    1. avatar Bob Wall says:

      Read “The Onion Field” by Joseph Wambaugh. It’s not fiction, but yes, it only got worse… and worse…

  10. avatar last marine out says:

    My local range laws are all firearms are to be unloaded until you reach the shooting area, and are checked in , but after shooting put a clip/mag back in as you are leaving. Same for hunting or shooting out doors alone , have a CCW loaded and ready to go, have read about hunters being robbed as they were coming back from hunting…

  11. avatar Vhyrus says:

    I always thought a gun range was a bit of a sticky wicket. Most of them are either in out of the way places or have lots of blind spots, and coming out there is a good chance you have your hands full of stuff and your guns are out of ammo.

  12. avatar sota says:

    This incident, while the only one I’ve ever heard of, gives me pause and reason to talk to the membership of my private range and discuss what our policies are. (we’re in NJ. stupid laws.)

  13. avatar Mark Lloyd says:

    That’s why I carry appendix. When I leave the range, I leave hot. Speed isn’t everything, but speed and accuracy are a very nice combination to have. Appendix is fast and with practice, a person can draw and fire in a blink of an eye.

  14. avatar brentondadams says:

    I carry a gun when carrying guns. Seems obvious.

    And the steel 30 cal ammo can gripped in my hand. I am totally prepared to swing it at an assailants head without hesitation if given the opportunity. It does double duty as a strong box for other valuables when necessary.

    A weapon is whats in your hand sometimes.

  15. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Wow. In reading the comments here, I’m glad my range is so liberal with its policies. Open carry a loaded pistol. Ok.

    Bonus, it’s a mile and a half from my driveway.

    1. avatar Mark Lloyd says:

      Not at the one closest to me here in Spokane. Like many gun stores, they are arrogant douche bags at times. As much money as I’ve spent and one guy acted obnoxious because my CW was showing.
      Stupid punk kid half my age!

      Not too long ago, (May 2nd) a guy offed himself there. He was standing at the sales counter talking to a sales guy, muttered something, produced a pistol and shot himself through the head. The bullet almost hit another customer. Heck, he didn’t even bother renting a gun and going into the range area. Just offed himself in the store. Classy!

      1. avatar Cecil says:

        That happened at Sharp Shooting? I’d heard someone did something stupid, but I didn’t know it was suicide. WTF.

        1. avatar Mark Lloyd says:

          Yep. Suicide is a forbidden subject around here as you know, so the media doesn’t say much about it ever. But yes, it was Sharp Shooters. I try not to go there because of the arrogance displayed there. I try to use CTS in Post Falls, but when purchasing firearms, so I don’t have to ship to an FFL, which is kind of lame to have to do here, I still buy local. We should be able to run to State Line and buy a gun from Cabelas and not have to mess around using a middle man FFL for gods sake!

      2. avatar Professor says:

        They allow CCW, just no open carry in the lobby. So bring your weapon in concealed and no one will bother you. Don’t see what’s the big deal here unless you want to show of your bad ass rig and shooter to other gun guys…

  16. avatar Mark says:

    hijacking a plane with a box-cutter worked once.. not sure I’d want to be the one trying it now.. some things you can’t forsee until they happen .. but the whole idea reeks of desperation.. i dont think this method works next time its tried…

  17. avatar TheOtherDavid says:

    I always keep an appendix carry pistol that never comes out at the range. And I often wear Level II armor under my jacket/shirt when I’m RSO – maybe I’ll start doing that more regularly even for just a “normal” range session.

    These days, what in the *#&% is normal anyway?!

  18. avatar DJ9 says:

    When our indoor range was preparing to open, they asked for and received input on the proposed rules from prospective members. Many of us with carry permits mentioned that if you ban folks from entering and leaving with loaded and concealed handguns, then you are not eliminating them, you are just moving the loading and clearing from the range (a safe place to load and unload handguns) to the parking lot (a decidedly LESS safe place to load and unload handguns).

    As a result, as long as your carry handgun stays concealed and in the holster, carry into and out of the range is allowed within the rules. If you have only one handgun and chose to carry it to the range, you must be on the line when drawing it before use, and when reholstering it to leave.

    No problems so far…

  19. avatar Sock Monkey says:

    These criminals weren’t clever. They were just incredibly stupid, and incredibly lucky.

  20. avatar Jim R says:

    I am fully prepared to use my range bag as an improvised bludgeon. All it has to do is buy me time and space.

    My plan if this ever happens? Improvise. Yeah, not much of a plan but it’s the only plan that’s ever survived contact with the enemy.

  21. avatar SB says:

    The problem that I see with this scenario is that ALL of the gun ranges that I frequent in South Florida are also gun stores and have posted no concealed or loaded weapons allowed. I have often felt like the sitting duck entering and exiting the range. I guess there is no sign saying no loaded weapons allowed to leave the range?

  22. avatar Pashtun6 says:

    Sometimes your only option is to draw on a drawn gun though, and when that happens, it comes down to 1 thing, who’s desire to live is stronger?

    1. avatar dakiwi13 says:

      sadly not many are prepared to make that decision

  23. avatar Chris says:

    Did they pee themselves? They should have…uh, then they wouldn’t have…er.

  24. avatar Kyle says:

    WOW. I guess I’m pretty lucky. The only rule of the main range around here is it better be in a holster and on you if its loaded.

  25. avatar JM says:

    And this is why you should always leave your gun hand empty. Regardless of how much crap you have to carry, it’s better to make two trips to the car than one to the morgue.

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      And learn (train) to drop things. It’s a powerful psychological urge to keep hold of whatever’s in your hand, be it a coffee cup or an ammo can. Learning to drop it (or use it or throw it) is a valuable lesson.

  26. avatar Stratajema says:

    You might be able to avoid this situation in your own life by pausing near the door area (outside) and observing your surroundings. Just stand there with a bored look and pretend to stretch while looking around. Or pretend to look at your phone. That is probably the only thing the victims could have done to avoid this lose-lose encounter.

    If I had the encounter that was mentioned in the article, I would regret not having close combat knife training. So, I would have fared no better than the victims.

  27. avatar LAC says:

    +1 for JM. Gun hand empty. Always be aware of your surroundings. Don’t shoot all the ammo you bring.

    Our local R&G range is tucked away in the woods off the main road a ways. I am unaware of any rules or regs that govern carry, but I’ve openly OWB carried before and never had a problem. Unless I’m practicing with my EDC, it’s on me and at the ready, and I can’t remember a time when I went to the range with only one gun.

  28. avatar Ryan says:

    If you go to a range that doesn’t allow you to conceal carry in and out of the range, find a new range. Your life is more important than some assholes liability insurance. If it’s the only range for awhile I’d ignore whatever dumbass rules they have. Just don’t pull it out and shoot it if you have “that guy” RO. Any range worth their salt should understand that a gun is only good as long as it’s loaded and in arms reach.

    1. avatar A samurai says:

      There are no ranges in my state that allow carry into and out of the range. After one range in the state was held up and every Shoot Straight had a suicide in their range, it pretty much became a blanket policy. Even almost every gun shop has a “No loaded guns beyond this point” sign.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        You’re living in a different Florida than me. I’m in Orlando, and most of the ranges around here have some form of an “If it’s concealed, keep it that way” sign. Even Shoot Straight, last time I was there a couple months ago. Only one that I frequent has a “no loaded guns” sign on the door, but once you’re known there they will freely admit that they don’t mind concealed weapons, and that the sign is for those who don’t know any better. Phrased differently, if you don’t know enough to know that the sign doesn’t apply to you, then you are the one they don’t want carrying in a loaded weapon.

        Edit: The only change Shoot Straight has made following the suicides is that they’ve stopped renting guns entirely.

        1. avatar A samurai says:

          Orlando IS a world all its own. I stay away from there as much as I can.
          I never frequent Shoot Straight…. For anything. The drive is too far, prices are high, the staff is rude, and range etiquette was appalling. I realize that’s customer thing the staff can’t really control. But there is nothing quite like the feeling of having the muzzle break of a DPMS 308 strike you in the back, as you stand on the firing line, because the guy in the lane next to you is on one knee looking at his iphone and trying (badly) to put his rifle in a soft case. I left before that guy was done, and after numerous other things not worth mentioning, I feel no compulsion to go back. In my area, I feel like there is a noticeable lack of places to shoot and a growing number of “No Loaded Guns Beyond This Point” signs. I wish I COULD just go somewhere else.
          Weather you intended it or not, I can’t help but detect the tone of criticism in your post. “If you don’t know enough to know that the sign doesn’t apply to you, then you are the one they don’t want carrying in a loaded weapon.”
          Gee, thanks for the personal attack. I have always enjoyed seeing your posts, but I am shocked at this. I work hard to be responsible, and especially not to be the guy arrested for trying to concealed carry through airport security. Now, I know the staff at shoot straight isn’t going to arrest me. But all too often there is a definite palpable air of “don’t ask don’t tell” when it comes to guns and gun shops. Thanks for calling me an idiot. But honestly, when all I see is a sign, how the hell am I supposed to know it means *unless you know better*? You don’t just walk in anywhere and say, “HEY! can I like “really” carry a gun in here anyway even though you put up this sign?”
          There is so much “the first rule is you don’t talk about fight club” built into the firearms community that it makes it really hard to get clear answers on things. So, I always err on the side of being responsible and respect posted signs. Thanks for attacking me for doing so. Because there are free books handed out on every corner right? Called “Do’s and Don’t’s That Go Completely Understood in the Gun Community” so that everyone is knowledgeable and on the same page. I probably haven’t been involved with firearms as long as you have. I learned about the AWB of 94 after it expired. So, thank you so much for contributing and explaining to me things I never realized instead of just saying, Hey stupid no one really obeys those don’t you know anything? Thanks. And how the hell was I supposed to know. And thanks for making it a personal assessment of me and not an informational point.

        2. avatar Matt in FL says:

          Wow, so you took that way personally and it was in no way intended that way. Actually, it was a reflection of my personal experience. The range I was speaking of is the one where I got most of my initial range experience. They have a sign on the door that says “Absolutely NO LOADED WEAPONS. No exceptions.” So, when I got my first handgun and was learning, getting range time and such, I obeyed that to the letter. I was carrying, so I unloaded in the parking lot, and reloaded again when I left. As time went on and my level of knowledge increased and matured, I learned that the sign didn’t carry the force of law, but I continued to abide by it out of respect for their establishment. More time went by, and I slowly came to realize that I knew what I was doing, and they didn’t really care about me carrying. I talked to them about it and they basically confirmed that was true. I realized that the sign did a very good job of deterring me from doing what I had no business doing yet, because I had no idea WTF I was doing. I was a rank noob of the rankest order. However, by the time I did know what I was doing, I had also developed the knowledge and maturity to be able to do it.

          I’m not sure I did a very good job of explaining that, even the second time around, so I’m curious if you get what I’m saying this time. I agree with you about the “Don’t talk about fight club” aspect, and it kinda applies to this situation, I suppose. But I see it (and I’m just developing this thought as I type, so excuse the corniness) as more of one of those ancient Japanese kung-fu master type things. “When you’re ready, the knowledge will come.” In the beginning, I wasn’t ready for the knowledge that carrying into that range concealed was OK. Because for me, it wasn’t OK. I was an ignorant noob, and ignorant noobs make stupid mistakes (or at least, make them more frequently than people with some experience).

      2. avatar racer88 says:

        Ditto. My local Shoot Straight (in Florida) allows concealed carry. Their “no loaded guns” sign even stipulates concealed carry as an exception.

        1. avatar A samurai says:

          Well, I haven’t been to a Shoot Straight in a while, maybe I read the sign wrong. And I have not honestly been to every range in the state, that was flippant of me. But the few that I have been to on the east and the west coast of the state all have that sign. And I don’t have the luxury of time to shop around for ranges. If I have time to I go to the one I can reach fastest. Otherwise I wouldn’t at all.

        2. avatar Matt in FL says:

          I think Shoot Straight only changed their signs from “No guns” to “We respect your right to carry” about a year ago. Maybe 18 months at the outside. So if you haven’t been to one in that time, that would explain why you didn’t know about it. No worries.

  29. avatar tdiinva says:

    “They were both leaving the gun range, which was open for business at the time of the shooting, when a man and a woman, both armed with handguns, approached them in the parking lot ”

    Classic case of poor SA. Had they check their surroundings they would have noticed the potential threat and acted accordingly.

    Note to myself. Check the parking lot when I leave the range.

  30. avatar Anon in CT says:

    My range does not permit drawing and holstering, so my self-defense gun stays concealed and cold.

  31. avatar A samurai says:

    “Assuming one or both were carrying concealed. ALWAYS carry a concealed gun at a gun range, even while shooting. Just sayin’ . . .”

    Ummm…. It is highly irresponsible of your to go advising your readers to do this. Every Single Range in my area has signs posted forbidding carry or even possession of loaded firearms. Firearms must enter the range in a separate case from ammo. Loaded guns aren’t allowed. In effect, though counter intuitive, ranges are ‘gun free’ zones. While I agree with the tactics behind the advice, following it without knowing local laws could get someone in a lot of trouble. These crooks were just smart, in a backwards way a gun range parking lot is a perfect place to catch people carrying valuables and completely unarmed.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      The range where I shoot allows open and concealed carry. They never have experienced any problems. The rule is that no gun may be handled outside of the firing line and you can unholster your conceal piece on the firing line as long as you keep it pointed down range. Having a no loaded weapons policy invites this kind of incident since bad guys and gals know where they can grab a gun.

  32. avatar Sean N. says:

    My closest range… the RO is an ass.. but its 25 yards from my porch…

    Private club I go to sometimes is all private.. no issues at all.

    1. avatar UnapologeticallyAmerican says:

      The RO is an a$$? I’m assuming you are referring to your SO as the RO… lol

  33. avatar Bob12 says:

    Went to the range today. Carried Sig Sauer 229 open carry, and LC9 in an IWB holster, both entering and leaving the range. Although crime has gone down over the past 20 years, most robberies seem to be committed by people on drugs. If they have a gun on me, I can only assume that they are going to shoot me even if I give them what they say they want.

  34. Ah, the wit was excellent in this one lol. Commas, invitations, and the Eric Holder comments all got me pretty good.

  35. avatar D.G. Cornelius says:

    As a former special agent in Aviation and Airport Security (equivalent of TSA in Europe), from the tactical point of view, there is only one possible solution that might prevent such: providing cover for each other.
    The main mistake here was that both got to the car, in the same time.
    Instead, to prevent such, a wise approach would to provide cover for each other: one gets to the car, the other stays behind to keep a look around, preferably while in a convenient position to prevent any “surprise” for him. Then the one at the car can bring the car closer to the one that was standing to watch around, and provide watch for that one to get into vehicle.

    The “window of opportunity” for the robbers was that “all eggs were in the same basket”. Well, that is something to be avoided.
    And by providing cover, I don’t mean anything “cartoon/movie like” action. Often, the simple fact that while one is involved in doing something, another one is looking around from a distance that offers him overall coverage, is enough.
    As I said, “putting all eggs in one basket” is not wise.

    And, as with most of things, prevention is more easy than solving such a situation once developed. A gun ready to be used is a gun ready to be used.

    1. avatar Theone says:

      Thank you for sharing this, I will have to keep this in mind.

      1. avatar D.G. Cornelius says:

        Thank you for consideration. I’m glad that it could be of good use.

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      D.G.

      Now that was an excellent suggestion. The person who goes to the car first can load everything (which necessarily prevents him/her from keeping track of their surroundings) while the second person keeps lookout — preferably from behind cover or at least concealment as you stated. If a criminal attacks the first person loading the car, the second person can at the very least provide suppression fire. And once the lead starts flying, 99.9% of criminals are going to remove themselves as quickly as their feet will carry them.

      1. avatar D.G. Cornelius says:

        Exactly! Really glad it is of good use!
        Another option would be to leave all gear with the one standing in a safe position, with good visibility, get the car near him, one starts loading, one provides cover/surveillance. This way the driver can move faster, has less to do, everything is swift.

  36. avatar Jim says:

    I’m actually a member of this range and where it’s located makes it easy for this happen and is why I never go at night. It’s in the back of an industrial park with wooded areas surrounding the place. At 8:30 at night it’s pretty much the only place open. The parking lot is not lit very well either. This range allows carry open and/or concealed if you choose. I don’t know exactly how the whole scenario went down, I’m heading up today so maybe I will find out, but you can easily catch someone off gaurd there if the are not paying attention. They should have been on the lookout as soon as they exited the range. I always have my head on a swivel there and until I get in my car my gun hand is pretty much resting right next to my pistol. It’s ashame this had to happen to anybody. Hope the guy makes it.

  37. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

    Concealed means concealed. If I shoot my EDC, always have another gun on me. Hot. Period.

  38. See this is why I have two nearly identical carry guns (xDMs – one stainless and one black). I NEVER practice with BOTH guns at the SAME TIME. I carry one concealed and I shoot the other at the range. I swap them out seasonally (the stainless gun being the Summer gun naturally). It always kills me how many guys I know that always shoot nearly every gun they own on each trip to the range. Then they walk back to their car with ALL dirty-filthy guns that are EMPTY and too nasty to stick in that nice leather holster!

  39. avatar Mike Rieker says:

    Most of the ranges here in Florida do not allow loaded weapons to be carried into the range or store. Stupid idea. Criminals know it. I haven’t heard of an incident here but it can’t be far off.
    Frankly, If they don’t allow loaded carry then they should provide security escorts to your vehicle.
    I think I’ll suggest,,, no, demand that in the future.

  40. avatar Racer88 says:

    Yes. I always carry concealed at the range. And because I’m also carrying several valuable guns, I’ve always considered that I am a target for bad guys. Accordingly, my situational awareness is always very high in the parking lot.

  41. avatar Gs650g says:

    That range isn’t in the greatest part of town. They do have the perp on film and I’m sure the police are searching everywhere for them/sarcasm on
    A big problem with ranges is most forbid CCW in the store on the way out. Unless you step through the door and can get a heater, load it, and then walk to the car effectively they have an opportunity. Don’t expect the business to walk you out.

  42. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    “Speed, surprise and violence of action are your friends.”

    Distance and movement are also your friends. The farther away you are and the faster that you are moving, the harder it is for the attacker to score any hits at all much less critical hits.

    In a scenario where an attacker is holding you at gunpoint, consider two ginormously important options. If the attacker is basically touching you, why not strike their arm (with the intention of breaking it) which is holding the gun and then follow-up with a strike to their body or drawing your gun while stepping to the side and away? If the attacker is standing back several feet, why not just make a break to the side and keep going?

    And if you choose either response above, see if you can toss a valuable item off to the side to draw the attacker’s attention away from you — opening up an opportunity to strike or break away. If you go this route, try to determine which side is better to toss the valuable object in terms of escape route or enhancing your ability to strike your attacker.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      I mentioned this yesterday, this is why the smallest pistol I normally carry is a compact with a 3.8″ barrel. It gives you a ballistic advantage at longer ranges. It also pays to practice at ranges outside what would normally be considered legitimate self defense range, i.e., ranges greater than 10 yards. I see too many shooters who never move the target beyond 10 yards. It also helps to use small targets at shorter range to improve your accuracy. I highly recommend using the the NRA B-34 silhouette. It visual presents at much longer ranges. Since I have started using this target.my long range defensive pistol shooting accuracy is generally over 90% on target/100% on paper at 25 yards. Remember not only does defending at longer range give you a defense advantage when shooting, it also gives a wider field of view and better situational advantage.

  43. avatar Michael says:

    It amazes me that many gun stores and ranges have “No loaded weapon” signs on their doors.
    We all criticize stores that post “No guns” then don’t say anything when “our” stores post.

  44. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    If I am at one range I open carry a pistol. If I am at the other range I concealed carry my LCP just for this kind of event. Although the chances of this happening in are slim

  45. avatar Retired LEO says:

    Unless you are taking a CCW class the local ranged don’t allow holster draw due to several ND & sweeping the line. I always wear a vest on range. Ours are attached to stores that give a free 30 or 60 min. of range time w/p. The 1st thing they do is go try & use the pistol (no rifle) w/o even learning how to load or safety procedures. One store had me keep the slide open trying to find a holster.

  46. avatar Retired LEO says:

    Did anyone look @ the follow-up 2nd in a week. Also in Philadelphia the only place other than Newark ever been harassed for carrying under federal LEOSA.

  47. avatar David P says:

    Just wait until “Everyclown.. I mean Everytown” hears that this range teaches firearm “classes” it will be number 75 on the list of school shootings!!

  48. avatar senior armed citizen says:

    Good story, and great comments. I am North of Orlando. So, I go out into the swamps to shoot. BUT, I first survey trhe back country to make sure i have two miles of space clear of any homes or buildings.

    I am on Public land, or private land with owner’s written permission, and I shoot standing, so
    when I am hunting, or shooting for sight in, trajectory is downward.

    I avoid gun ranges, and gun stores, most of which have really short ranges, not at all
    suitable for my long range high powered rifles. Besides, they do not like me shooting with the bayonet in place nor, the black powder smoke cloud of my flint lock.

    If they don’t serve me, I don’t need them.

  49. avatar Nyoka Tisa says:

    “G-Town”: Biggest TROLL ever and Marxist dupe to boot. Just move to Cuba, Zimbabwe or North Korea and get it over with…Ooops! can’t do that, have to stay here in the USA where you can shoot your mouth off hiding behind the 1st, and subvert from within like your boy Alinsky taught you and that other guy who wants to do an Australia here, Constitution be dammed….

  50. avatar Lfshtr says:

    Duh! Where is their ccw and how come not alert? Going to a gun range is the Same as going to the bank or ATM, be prepared and look around keep you senses about you another words don’t get caught with your pants down!

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