The Legal Consequences Of Bathroom Carry

CeRylir

One of the most legally dangerous places to carry a handgun is in the bathroom. It may not be as legally dangerous as an airport, but it ranks high on the list for the same reason: it creates an environment where it is easy to make a legally dangerous mistake. A church-going lady in Wisconsin found this out in March. She will recover from the error, but it has already cost her significant time, money, and stress . . . From jsonline.com:

Susan Hitchler, 66, was charged in April with negligent handling of a weapon, a misdemeanor. The complaint indicated that on March 19 she had left her handgun in a stall of the women’s restroom at Elmbrook Church. A church employee found the gun within a few minutes and turned it over to security. At a hearing late last week, Circuit Judge Lloyd V. Carter ruled on a defense motion to dismiss the case based on a lack of evidence that a crime had been committed. The motion had been argued in May.

The most common way for people to carry concealed handguns is attached to the belt or waist band in some way.    When people use a stall in a bathroom, the handgun becomes an impediment. I can imagine the nodding of heads of those who have carried. Nearly everyone has encountered this problem in one way or another. Undo the belt, and the handgun is no longer supported. If you place the handgun on the floor, even if it’s still in the holster, it may be seen from outside the stall. Some solve this dilemma by discreetly covering the holster and handgun inside the clothes at their feet. Others detach the holstered gun and place it out of sight behind the toilet or on top the toilet paper dispenser. Worse, some unholster the handgun and place it in a “convenient” spot. That’s not a good idea. From tampabay.com a detective left his firearm:

There, perched atop a toilet paper dispenser inside a busy bathroom inside a busy movie theater, he discovered the loaded Glock 26, a small semiautomatic weapon.

One from the Missouri Capitol:

Dave Evans, legislative assistant to Republican House Speaker Tim Jones, left a loaded 9mm pistol in a stall at Capitol in Jefferson City, Missouri

One that involves an airport bathroom :

The weapon, a .380-caliber pistol in a black case, was found by a custodian in the restroom near the security checkpoint about 6:45 p.m. Tuesday, according to a Peoria County Sheriff’s Office report on the incident.

In Michigan, a security guard:

An armed school security officer hired in response to the Newtown shootings forgot to take his gun with him when he left the bathroom. 

The unloaded handgun was unattended in the restroom “for a few moments,” Matt Young, director of The Chatfield School in Lapeer, Mich., told Michigan Live in a statement.

The problem is one of human nature. Humans are fallible. We all make mistakes. If you detach your handgun, distractions can occur at exactly the wrong instance, overriding your awareness of your handgun’s location with something that seems more important.  In that critical instant, the handgun is left in the bathroom. That error can come with considerable legal consequences. You will survive, but your pocketbook, reputation, and your constitutional right to own and carry guns may not.

Most people discover the error very quickly. I surmise that in the vast majority of cases, the handgun is retrieved without any ill effects. It’s those few cases where someone else finds the firearm and reports it to the police, that consequences start spiraling out of control.

Those consequences are considerably less severe than if you manage to fumble the handgun and have a negligent discharge in the process. Here is one from Tampa:

Bliss was sitting on the toilet in a hotel bathroom when a woman in the next stall accidentally let her handgun slip out of her waist holster. The weapon discharged when it hit the ground.

It can happen. There are almost no modern handguns that will discharge when dropped. If someone grabs for their gun as it’s falling and contacts the trigger…that is another scenario. It is a good reason to have some form of retention device on the holster, and to keep the handgun in the holster when you are in the bathroom. If you keep the holster on your belt or waistband, you are fairly well assured of not leaving the firearm behind. To sum up: in the bathroom, be sure to maintain control of the firearm when undoing belts or clothes. Don’t inadvertently display the gun to others who might view it from outside the stall.  Do not remove your gun from the holster and set it down; do not remove your holster from your belt or waistband and set it down; if using a fannypack, purse, or other detachable container, keep it in sight.  Check the security of your gun when you rearrange your clothes;  check the bathroom to make sure you have not left personal possessions when you leave.   Consider shoulder holsters, they might work for your needs.   Do not be the next person on the national news who left a gun in a public bathroom. ©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included. Link to Gun Watch

comments

  1. avatar Kyle says:

    There was even an elite security guard in Britain (a woman) who accidentally left her hand gun in the bathroom. So it can even happen to the pros. I’d do as suggested, set it down on the floor and cover it over with the pants/shorts/skirt/whatever. That way, it’s almost impossible to forget it when you put your clothes back on.

    1. avatar A samurai says:

      Is it? Do you stop and look back down between your ankles after you pull your pants up? What happens if you are momentarily off balance and you kick the gun? I feel like putting your side arm on the floor is a bad thing in general.

      1. avatar Kyle says:

        I was thinking that it would be pretty near impossible to just pull your pants back up with your gun lying covered by them without becoming aware of the gun.

    2. avatar jon says:

      No, thanks, I like my guns without the scent of “Eau de Piss.”

    3. avatar B says:

      Don’t let your pants down past your calves. Most of mine seem to hang barrel heavier so not much chance of flipping out of the holster. If its something heavy like a 1911 hold it up by your waistband or belt. I don’t like the idea of my clothes touching the floor of a public restroom anyways, so I do that even when not carrying.

      1. avatar Fred says:

        I usually keep the pants up around the knees so it isn’t visible and my clothes aren’t sitting on the ground. Belly-band type holsters make this a non-issue, though, but those can cause an annoyance all day long. Choices choices.

        1. avatar TT says:

          No doubt. Who wants their pants all over the floor of a public restroom anyway?

    4. avatar PeterZ in West Tennessee says:

      In Memphis a Shelby County Sheriff’s Office LT left her entire gunbelt – with handgun and two extra mags – draped over the toilet paper roll in a public restroom in the Shelby County Courthouse. This restroom is accessible to criminals and their families and is located just down the hall from courtrooms where major felony cases are tried.

      Of course, there were no repercussions. The whole thing was hushed up. I only know about it because my wife was the person who found it.

      1. avatar DW says:

        My guess is that that was done on purpose. Nobody can be that blatantly stupid.

    5. avatar Bungameng says:

      Reminds me on how the Slovak police officers all got vz.58s following the massacre in Bratislava [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Bratislava_shooting ]. They were forgetting them just about anywhere and everywhere. Bathrooms. Coffees. Gas stations. And on top of their cars. Imagine you are waiting at a bus stop and an assault rifle just falls in front of you from the roof of a cop car!

      1. avatar John in Ohio says:

        Manna from Heaven! 🙂

    6. avatar DW says:

      First of all, ANYONE who would let their pants, skirt, etc. touch a bathroom floor is NASTY! Bathroom floors (especially around toilets) are disgusting places where people have pissed, shit, and who know what else, etc.

      Second, I have NEVER forgotten, nor forgotten about my gun. It gets put into the front pocket of my pants or jacket (in its holster) whenever I have to go #2. I do not set anything down anywhere in a stall of a public bathroom. My possessions stay on my body or at least adjacent to me via being placed somewhere in my clothing.

      If someone is irresponsible enough to lay a something as important as a loaded firearm down and forget about it, then they should not be carrying one in the first place. Irresponsibility of this nature just adds fuel to the anti-gun zealots movement, and has no place in the pro-gunners mindset!

  2. avatar Gunr says:

    Is that Susan sitting on the Pot? Dam, she’s got hairy legs!

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      I was wondering who “modeled” for that photo. We can only guess which member of the TTAG staff “took one for the team”. Or perhaps Mr. Farago paid an Israeli supermodel. /sarcasm_off

      1. avatar Sopater says:

        Whoever it was, they are sans skivies…

        1. avatar Gunr says:

          Your right! I didn’t notice that until you mentioned it. Reminds me of the time I went into a Walmart men’ room, and this dude was standing at the urinal taking a leak. Not only did he have his pants all the down to his ankles, he had hi shorts all the way down to is ankles also, with his bare ass butt sticking out!
          I left, until he came out.

  3. avatar Philip Mehegan says:

    I don’t fully undress when I use the Jonnyhouse though.

  4. avatar Mr Bob says:

    FYI Chrome is trying to block this site as containing malware. Bastards!

    1. avatar JoshuaS says:

      It isn’t Chrome per se, but rather Google. If you get here via a google search, which is the default search engine used to power the address bar in Chrome, Firefox and Chromium, yeah it will show up, unless you type out the whole address.

      I wouldn’t think much of it. This happens all the time to many sites I visit, most of which are not gun related. Often a bad security certificate, or someone linked an image (probably via google image search) that is from a bad site or something like that

      1. avatar Mr Bob says:

        I actually came from an email link, but it happened when I typed the homepage in as well. Google owns chrome, so there ya go.

    2. avatar CalAnon says:

      Same problem with Firefox. Google is calling this an Attack Site.

      1. avatar Ing says:

        I took a look at Google’s activity summary before clicking past the warning, and it records no malware activity coming from TTAG itself in the last 90 days. I’m guessing it’s either something to do with the ad delivery system or malicious third-party abuse of the malware reporting process.

        1. avatar rlc2 says:

          same on pale moon, using start page SSL with google,
          so I’m guessing its google being evil again…

        2. avatar Esemwy says:

          Likely one of the ad providers or malicious posts in the forums. Those seem to be the most common vectors nowadays.

      2. avatar B says:

        Its blocking it on my android tablet too intermittently.

      3. avatar Marty G says:

        It may very well be an attack site without any knowledge of the admins or owners of the site. Just as hackers take over end user laptops and computers to use as ‘zombies’, hackers also covertly take over web sites and use them to run exploits on web site visitors via browser exploits. I’m not saying that this site has been compromised, but the admins should not just brush it off as political blacklisting and should do everything in their power to find out why they were blacklisted and clear up any infections or problems. This type of exploit leveraging compromised web sites is second only in frequency to the takeover of individual end user machines; the latter often being done via the former.

    3. avatar The Brotherhood of Steel says:

      Google is anti gun. They are the ones building SkyNet and the terminators… they don’t want us future slaves to have weapons to slow down the T-101s, T1000s etc…. They know they’ll be awfully mad when one of us puts a .308 round through the circuit board of one those expensive terminators.

      1. avatar JimmyDelta says:

        Its the ads TTAG is getting from a 3rd party service. Nothing to do with any tech company or browser.

        1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          You know this for sure or are you speculating?

          Honest question.

    4. avatar S.CROCK says:

      I got the same thing earlier with firefox and safari. It seems to be fine now.

    5. avatar Tactical Tightwad says:

      My McAfee also alerted on this page (using IE 9)

  5. avatar John in Ohio says:

    Don’t inadvertently display the gun to others who might view it from outside the stall.

    Meh. If someone looks over and sees my willy, I’m not guilty of indecent exposure. If someone looks over and sees my firearm, I’m not guilty of brandishing.

    From a tactical POV, I wouldn’t want someone attempting a grab at my willy or my firearm while I’m on the throne though. 😉

    1. avatar Kevin der Kinderen says:

      Very reasonable. In the stall there must be some expectation of privacy, no? And if so, having a handgun uncovered while behind a closed stall door should never be considered brandishing (not a lawyer and common sense often fails when checking for legality).

      The biggest issues brought up are the dropping/ND increased possibility and the walking away with the gun left behind. I know I have left my cell phone behind a bunch of times.

      I wonder if a lanyard would help. Not a lanyard you keep attached at all times but one you clip to the gun when you are in a precarious situation. Maybe some sort of a sticker you stick to the door of the stall that says DON’T FORGET YOUR GUN. A red flag. Something you can’t miss.

      I’ve made it a habit to check wallet, cell, gun before I leave the stall or even before I leave the truck or any sitting position – like a booth at a restaurant.

      1. avatar John in Ohio says:

        Bring back restroom attendants. 😀

        Leaving my firearm has never been an issue for me in the decades I’ve been carrying and I couldn’t understand how people were doing it until my oldest child became of age to carry. He still forgets important things. He’s intelligent and aware but, just like his mama, he can get distracted easily. I now see that it happens innocently enough for some.

        Your reminder sign idea might help them. I’m a fan of lanyards but I could just see my son walking out with his sidearm dangling or dragging along or would forget to attach the lanyard beforehand.

        When I’m out, I am aware of my gear. The only time that I’m likely to forget gear is when I’m leaving the house but even those instances are very rare and I realize within a few minutes. I do the same as you do when getting up from any seated position. I can usually feel the gear I wear everyday. The absence of anything is noticeable. Perhaps that’s where my son makes his mistake, his gear choices and locations aren’t always the same each time.

  6. avatar Philip Mehegan says:

    Same here, Firefox though.

    1. avatar Scottlac says:

      I got the firefox/google block also. Is it from a questionable new advertiser?

  7. avatar Philip Mehegan says:

    I think that the NSA is being detected by the browsers as the hackers they truly are.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      NSA needs to get busy pulling the IRS/Lois Lerner etc emails.

      1. avatar B says:

        Lerner likely cc’d them. DoJ probably has them already, the Treasury definitely had them at some point since they cite them in one of their reports.

  8. avatar Bernard says:

    I was always curious about this myself. Las Vegas tip: The Wynn Casino has the best, most private restroom out of all the casinos. Also this Google Chrome malware thing is annoying.

  9. avatar Charles says:

    To the admin of this page.

    This is the first time this has happened to me but I get the following error when trying to visit this post.

    “Reported Attack Page!

    This web page at http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences.

    Attack pages try to install programs that steal private information, use your computer to attack others, or damage your system.

    Some attack pages intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners.”

    I have not blocked this page in the past and have not changed security settings to block any of these pages, someone may be making erroneous reports.

    As for guns in the bathroom, how can one leave such a valuable item behind? I know I never could. My eyes wouldn’t leave it.

  10. avatar Philip Mehegan says:

    NICK, RF, DAN, MATT IN FL, SOMEONE, SAVE US FROM THE HACKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. avatar Mr Bob says:

    I always set mine in it’s retention holster, in my underwear, in my pants so that there is no way I can forget it. Yes, the first time I did it was at home and I forgot it was there. After yanking my pants up and smacking myself in the “grapeshot”, I never forgot again. BTW, it did not fall out.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      Ha! That’ll reinforce your memory for sure.

      When I’m carrying, my gun *never* leaves my person. Because if I ever set it aside, eventually I will forget what I’ve done and leave it behind. It’s just human nature; we’re fallible and we get distracted.

      If I ever do forget, it’s pretty difficult to leave something behind by accident when it’s attached to your pants. Or in your case, in them. 🙂

    2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      That’s how they taught doing it in the cop school I attended…or, “one way to do it.”

      The stowing method, I mean, not the smacking oneself in the grapeshot.

  12. avatar ThomasR says:

    I use a Serpa Black Hawk holster on a paddle. I unclip the entire holster and hang it butt down between the wall and the hand rail most bathrooms provide now a days. It’s secure, and it’s in front of me begging to be put back on my belt after I’m done. Pretty hard to forget it.

    1. avatar Victor says:

      SImilar to my method, also.

  13. avatar Alpo says:

    Well now I feel dumb for emailing, instead of leaving a comment, about the malware watching.

    1. avatar Charles5 says:

      I emailed too, but I attached screen shots of what I was getting, though they can probably see it themselves.

  14. avatar JPD says:

    Hey guys!! The CHROME web browser is reporting The Truth About Guns “The website ahead contains malware”. Must mean too many guns. Guns are malware.

  15. avatar Bernard says:

    Another tip: Cover both your feet with a large black trash bag.

  16. avatar detroiter says:

    I’ve been hoping for an article about this issue. I guess this is a +1 for ankle carry…

    1. avatar TheBear says:

      Or mousegun pocket carry.

      But seriously – people leaving guns in a bathroom is the same as people leaving cell phones.

      Nobody intentionally leaves behind 500 dollar phones patched in to their bank accounts either. It just comes down to preventing brain farts and having a system to remember all your stuff.

  17. avatar Jay1987 says:

    It’s screwin up on Opera mobile too (takin forever and a month of Sundays to load, not loading the comment entry boxes, & loading in an effed up mix of desktop & mobile). Now as for gats in the crapper I find that setting the thing on my lap until I have to reposition it to the crotch of my boxers in order to wipe works best YMMV

  18. avatar Mark Lloyd says:

    Leaving your gun in the bathroom might get you busted, unless you are a cop and then it’s “humans make mistakes”

  19. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    Don’t take a dump in public! That way you won’t have to worry about losing your gun, or receiving toilet seat cooties. You never know what might be living on that toilet seat.

    (Yes, it’s a joke.)

    1. avatar Gunr says:

      No it’s not! Trust me!

  20. avatar Troy says:

    I carry a crimson trace LCR 357 in my right front pocket in a pocket holster. I wear baggy cargo pants or shorts. No worries.

  21. avatar Hinshelworld says:

    I don’t put anything of mine on a grimy public restroom floor.

    1. avatar Gene says:

      Good Lord, yes!

  22. avatar Red Sox says:

    Reminds me of a police officer in right here in western Mass, Holyoke who lost 2 department issued guns and is still employed. One was an assault rifle that fell off the back of his truck with the tailgate down and it took over a year to recover it. Another time this same dolt was in the Holyoke Mall and took a dump and left his service side arm in the bathroom and could not find it. Did I mention this Mensa member is still employed?

    1. avatar Sixpack70 says:

      It’s Holyoke, there is nobody else that wants his job.

  23. avatar former water walker says:

    How about don’t leave your f###ing gun on the bathroom floor. Or don’t carry if you’re not responsible enough. On a non-lighter note I am blocked on every browser now on computer. I got on Bing on android. Fix it.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      “Fix it.”

      You don’t think they are trying?

      They’ve know about the issue for nearly four hours.

      On the Google “How to fix this problem” page, it outlines the steps that have to be done to get “delisted” from Google’s all-knowing, protect us list of ‘bad sites.’ I’m sure it takes some time to work through the process, and some of it might be out of their hands anyway.

    2. avatar jon says:

      Chrome doesn’t block the website, it only gives a warning. If you click on “Advanced,” then “Proceed at your own risk,” it will take you to the website.

      BTW, Bing is not a browser, it’s just a search engine, and search engines’ don’t host websites, they only post links to them. If you can’t access a webpage, that’s not the result of a search engine, it’s the result of something else.

    3. avatar Mark N. says:

      I have the page bookmarked, and have no issues getting here. I only had one unusual syntax error all day ( I get them every time I forget to enter name and email.)

    4. avatar Mark N. says:

      Here’s a question. A malicious false police report or a crime in progress that triggers a massive police response is called SWATting. What is a malicious false report of an attack site to Google called?

  24. avatar BStacks says:

    Crapper Carry:
    1 Unbuckle your belt
    2 Lower your pants past your knees
    3 Rebuckle your belt around your calves, just below the knees.
    4.Sit

    A little bit awkward because you can’t spread your legs as far as you would like, but your firearm is not going anywhere and cannot be seen by anyone. All this talk about leaving it laying anywhere is the reason for all those clips above.

    At the urinal, that fly you never used is perfect.

  25. Fortunately for me, the cell phone pocket on my Wrangler cargo pants has let go of my spare mag enough times that I got used to checking every time I stand.

    Same process after I put my phone in the rear pocket. Knife flashlight keys wallet gun reload pen. Every time.

  26. avatar Vhyrus says:

    Pocket carry. /discussion

    Ironically, I was reading this on my phone whilst dropping a deuce at public restroom.

    I share way too much with you people.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      I laughed so hard, I hurt myself!

    2. avatar Geoff PR says:

      Note to self – Never let Vhyrus hand you his smartphone if you ever meet him in person…

  27. avatar jon says:

    The fact that people can’t figure out how to properly carry a gun when going to the toilet and that it’s an issue make me want to smack myself in the face. This should be basic sense, but

    1. avatar Tactical Tightwad says:

      I’ll see your Limalife, and raise you one Yankee Marhsal:

      http://youtu.be/j6YOvYrzb3o

  28. avatar Jon in CO says:

    I don’t understand. Do people make A LOT more money than I do? I take pride in the firearms I own. Seems people just take for granted the $500 gun they buy and just don’t care what happens to it.

    1. avatar juliesa says:

      People forget their baby is left in the car too. Busy people get all too easily distracted.

    2. avatar jon says:

      Smart-phones are also pretty expensive for most people, but does that make them any less easy to forget at a restaurant after placing it on the table? All of your attention is not constantly focused on the phone, so the price doesn’t really matter. It’s an attention-span thing, not a cost or value thing.

      1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

        “It’s an attention-span thing, not a cost or value thing.”

        Which is a very interesting rationale considering how so many carriers claim “head on a swivel,” 100% perfect and flawless situational awareness which would suggest 100% perfect ‘attention control.’

  29. avatar Ralph says:

    Put your pistol in your banana hammock and you can’t forget it.

    1. avatar Mr Bob says:

      +1 My point exactly.

  30. avatar Jonathan -- Houston says:

    Wait, why doesn’t everyone just use that convenient little trigger guard gun hook affixed to the back of the bathroom stall door? It’s there for a reason, people! Or maybe not.

    Anyway, it’s really best to minimize use of public restrooms in general. I know, I know, nature calls and all. Still, it’s your body and you’re well familiar with it. You can anticipate requirements better. Treat the firearm at least as conscientiously as you would your cell phone. Although, I’ve found half a dozen of those over the years either in restrooms or grocery carts (phones, not guns), so even that can be a little iffy.

  31. avatar former water walker says:

    My phone cost 15bucks at BestBuy…Virgin Mobile android 3G. It works great. If I lose it I’m out nothing. I’ve never left any of my 4 sons in a hot car. Carrying a gun comes with awsome responsibility. I did lose a cell phone years ago-haven’t LOST any kids or guns. They are not equivalent. Hold your gun in your hands if you can’t take a dump without losing it.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      “When I was a kid, my parents moved around a lot….But I found them any way.”

  32. avatar Kevin says:

    Stop going #2 in public. If you’re female, I got nothin’.

  33. avatar Tom from Georgia says:

    Two thoughts came to mind when I read this…one, I don’t have this problem b/c I carry a mousegun in a pocket holster in my back pocket. I do choose a stall on the far right end (far left when facing the stalls) so as to prevent someone seeing it in my pocket from the right and possibly trying to snatch it.

    I think that a larger sidearm on a belt would be best removed and held under your left armpit while you take care of business, but that would entail at least a small element of risk inherent in handling a sidearm while dropping your pants and pulling them back up. But that probably depends on the individual and the holster/weapon – some setups may be easier to handle others not so much. YMMV.

    Tom

    PS: I haven’t gotten any attack warnings or such, but I can’t post comments in Chrome, and I can’t surf TTAG in Firefox. I keep getting 500 syntax errors whenever I attempt to post a comment using Chrome, and browsing TTAG in Firefox quickly locks up and crashes the browser.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      The cheap old ipad has no error messages, no lock ups…

  34. avatar AJ Peyerson says:

    I always wear my weapon holstered in a retention holster, with a longer than normal belt. That way, if the need to go comes, I can rebuckle the belt at the last hole, before dropping trou. Weapon remains holstered and on my belt.

  35. avatar Geoff PR says:

    “There are almost no modern handguns that will discharge when dropped.”

    The NAA Mini-Revolver sure as hell will if you leave the hammer resting on a round…

    I mention that because of the few women that I showed mine, they tended to say “It’s so cute!” And being women with limited carry options, it wouldn’t surprise me that the weapon was a NAA Mini.

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      My .22 LR NAA Minis have notches machined into the cylinders. The firing pin rests one of these notches between the rounds. IIRC, those with the old style cylinders can get in touch with North American Arms for an upgrade.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        YES, I am aware of the “safety” notch.

        Had she erroneously had the hammer on a round instead on the notch, I can easily visualise it going *boom* had the hammer hit first as it went clattering on the hard tile floor.

        1. avatar John in Ohio says:

          I’m sorry but your statement appeared to indicate that there was a safety hazard inherent in NAA Mini revolvers.

          “There are almost no modern handguns that will discharge when dropped.”

          The NAA Mini-Revolver sure as hell will if you leave the hammer resting on a round…

          If you disregard the safety features of many a mechanical apparatus, unintended consequences may occur. For instance:

          “There are almost no modern automobiles that will roll if you leave them on a hill…”

          The VW Rabbit sure as hell will if you leave it in neutral on a hill…

          I see it now that you literally meant “on a round.” Well, no shit. If one defeats or purposely fails to use a safety feature of the NAA Mini revolver it could go off if dropped. And the Sun is hot but it’s a dry heat.

  36. avatar Larry says:

    In the 1970s I was working as a pilot flying at night all over new england in all weather picking up checks and also bags of tattered money from banks and my last stop was Boston where I was met by an armored car who’s guards relieved me of the bags and cash to take them to the federal reserve bank the checks to be processed onward to the banks that had issued them and the tattered and dirty bills to be destroyed… At rural and unattended air ports I would colect this stuff from bank reps sometimes several of themat one air port and never was their any security at these small fields. I carried my father and grandfather’s 1911 in a shoulder holster with a pouch holding two spare mags under the other armpit it made for quite a balanced and secure as well as well hidden rig. Did the job for almost two years before the constant night work and a job offer from a regional airline ment that I could work mostly days again.

    But I do wonder why so many dismiss the shoulder holster rigs. I still use mine with the same 1911 when I have to go to a sketchy area; and I also use it SASS wild bunch matches so I still feel very compitant with it… In compitition you do have to be a bit more aware of what you are doing to avoid a ‘sweep’ penalty DQ. But I do not find that a problem.
    The shoulder holster does obviate the worry of the public restroom problem outlined above

  37. avatar mountocean says:

    I wanna know what the security guard was doing with an unloaded pistol.

  38. avatar Fanfare Ends says:

    “I wanna know what the security guard was doing with an unloaded pistol.”

    The same thing Boehner has been doing for years:

    Faking it.

  39. avatar Mister Fleas says:

    Here is my solution to tiolet/handgun problem:

    My wear mine on a belt. I loosen the belt enough so I pull my pants down to just above the knees. You can’t splay, but you have enough room to crap. It keeps the handgun from touching the bathroom floor or being seen(unless someone is peeping through the cracks in the stall).

  40. avatar Ardent says:

    I only saw one comment that approached the real problem here; situational awareness. If you’re leaving your means of defense or of communication (phone) behind in a public place you have seriously failed situational awareness. I don’t know how others prioritize but something is wrong if you’re not double checking visually/tactilely that you have your weapon and phone after having your pants down or before leaving any area where you may have removed them.

  41. avatar Gregolas says:

    Another reason to wear a fanny pack. If I have to sit down, I choose the handicapped stall and buckle the belt around one of the handrails. If that stall isn’t available, then I buckle it and place it on the underloop of the coat peg. (Avoiding the top peg to prevent a reach-over-the-door-grab that occasionally happens to women’s purses. No peg? I buckle it and sling it around my neck and under the arm. Since my wallet, cell phone, and other important etceteras are also in there, I’m highly unlikely to walk out or far without it.

  42. avatar EagleScout87 says:

    “It’s those few cases where someone else finds the firearm and reports it to the police, that consequences start spiraling out of control.”

    Unless you’re a cop, as in the Tampa movie theater. The goose and the gander have different laws.

  43. avatar jsallison says:

    Shoulder holtsters, anyone? I recall on the show Barney Miller, Fish (Abe Vigoda) lived in the bathroom, he was also the only one that wore a shoulder holster and carried a real hogleg instead of one of those cute little snubbies in a belt rig.

  44. avatar Pashtun6 says:

    Not to mention that floor is filthy, a coworker of mine wipes his gun off after using the bathroom. If you have to use a bathroom Starbucks bathrooms are usually private and very clean.

  45. avatar Marty the Lett says:

    The model for the picture not only carries concealed, he/she also goes Commando..

  46. avatar pod says:

    If I’m using a urinal, I always check to make sure the restroom is not crowded, and I’ve got it down to a science where my (long) shirt covers my EDC carried IWB whilst taking a piss. Then I can re-do my belt, etc without displaying.

    If I’m using a stall, my pants don’t go below my knees. Pistol is resting right by my right knee, still on the belt. It never leaves my person.

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      When using a urinal, I usually just use the fly. Then again, I often OC and few times when the fly wasn’t cooperating the single action revolver just got unholstered and set on the top of the urinal. In Southern Ohio, men don’t tend to look at other men’s guns at the urinal. 😀

      1. avatar Ardent says:

        I’m also in SE Ohio, howdy neighbor. Around here, even a guy inclined to look over at another guy at the urinals looks away pretty fast if what he gets an eye full of is your gun.

  47. avatar T.K. says:

    Finally a use for that lanyard loop on some pistols, now someone just needs to make handgun lanyards as fashionable as “Trucker Wallets” ( Kidding ). Or maybe I just need more coffee.

    1. Lanyards are a useful option. I used one all the time when I was in Alaska.

  48. avatar WV Cycling says:

    Nice Merrell shoes!

  49. avatar bob jones says:

    i knew a man who forgot his car at a walmart parking lot ,,walked home (only a couple blocks) then later needed his car and thought it had been stolen,,reported ,boy what a mess.

  50. avatar John Botts says:

    Buy a belt large enough that you can extend it to it’s largest size, and your knees can comfortably keep outward pressure on it, while sitting with your pants dropped to just above the knees. Easily supports my XDM 45 daily that way.
    It keeps things out of sight, off the floor, impossible to forget your ‘piece’, and enables you get ‘back into action’ pretty quickly if needed.

  51. avatar Roscoe says:

    A person leaves a handgun benind in the john, someone recoveers it, or it is stolen, and *that’s* NATIONAL NEWS? Give me a break!

    1. avatar Kevin der Kinderen says:

      It is national news because it fits a narrative and political agenda. Most national news these days are no not news, just propaganda dissemination machines.

      Can someone name one national newspaper that really tries to present the unbiased truth? Is it even possible? Is it too boring to even survive? I feel like both sites of the argument feed off each other and it is to their benefit to keep these things in the news. We, the public trying to exercise our rights peacefully, are just caught in the middle and feeding both sides with money.

      1. avatar John in Ohio says:

        Yep. Caught in the middle just living our lives. +1

  52. avatar Doc Hendo says:

    I use a clip-on holster, IWB, small of back. Because I carry what would be considered a “midsized” weapon, a Kahr CW-40, and it isn’t too terrible heavy, I have a few ways of addressing the problem. When I have to go to the bathroom in public the first thing I do is look for one of the “family” bathrooms where I will have it to myself and do not have to worry about it much, I let the piece stay attached to my belt and let my pants down gently and the weapon rest inside my pants while I relieve myself. If, however, this option is not available I will typically wait for the disabled stall where I will have more room to work with, and at that point unclip the holster from my belt and tuck it firmly under my chin, pining it against my neck and upper chest. It does not limit what I need to do in there, I can take care of business as usual as both hands are still free, but most importantly I CANNOT run off and forget it, thus creating a danger for children and others.

    Try it at home; unless you are carrying something of significant weight your neck is plenty strong to do this and keep you out of trouble. I had never had reason to try but just tested this with my .40 Baby Desert Eagle full sized that has combo light/laser, my full sized 1911, and even a scoped Excel Arms 22 mag pistol, and found it exceedingly easy to keep them all secured while dropping my pants, assuming the position on the throne, cleaning up, and getting back up and dressed. Never with any of them was there even a hint of being unstable or too heavy. Again, give it a try to see if it works for you

  53. avatar Yellow Devil says:

    It happens. M16/M4s left in porta johns is the leading cause for Soldiers to have extra-curricula PT down range.

  54. avatar Mikel Lott says:

    Someone once said that “The problem with police officers is that we have to make them out of people.” Cops are human, humans with special training but people none-the-less. In an adult lifetime in law enforcement, including about 40 years of teaching firearms training, I have seen, or know of, cops (up to and including the head of law enforcement agencies) leaving their firearms (of all types) in virtually every conceivable location. Let’s not demand that cops be omniscient or saints, I have never seen a cop who was either. And neither would be likely to be an effective law enforcement officer. Select personnel carefully, train them well, and hope for the best.

  55. avatar Doc says:

    I can honestly say ive never forgotten the location of my handgun once removed from its holster. I’ve trained hard to make it a part of my arm. I notice the weight difference too. once trained its hard to not realize there isnt 2 pounds of metal strapped to you. Plus i use armpit holster so removing it isn’t necessary when on the can. just my 2 cents.

  56. avatar gp says:

    I’m going to ask Restroom Santa to leave me a Kimber 1911 to find on my next visit.

  57. avatar Russ Bixby says:

    Shoulder rig.

  58. avatar barstoolguru says:

    IF I find your gun you’re not getting it back, I plan on shooting the crap out of it and then selling it to some thug to rob a store with it and then drop it so the cops find it

  59. avatar K. says:

    two words… FANNY PACK. totally hands free in the restroom… for sitting, just spin it to the side, just like you would in the car, to accommodate your seatbelt. i know they’re fugly, and dated.. but the utilitarian aspect has kept me using mine as a purse since they were available in retail. If removal from the waist is necessary, they can be snapped shut and slung over your neck or a shoulder.

    even if you don’t carry, the advantages of fanny packs are hands free, harder target for pickpockets and purse snatchers, and they often have a loop to attach a carbiner/key chain, (women are vulnerable while digging for keys in a purse) which also functions as an innocuous looking weapon if the need should arise.

  60. avatar Nick says:

    Get a cheap Uncle Mike’s (or similar) inside the pocket holster. When you go to take care of business, in the privacy of the stall, safely transfer your weapon to the pocket holster and put it in your pocket. I’ve done this was a Beretta PX4 Compact and a Glock 30SF. When you’re done, transfer the weapon back to your IWB holster.

  61. avatar Roymond says:

    I prefer open carry, and have never had an issue with leaving my sidearm behind because it is holstered on a separate gun belt that I don’t take off. When sitting on a toilet, the holster ends up in my lap.

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